tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC December 18, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PST
9:00 pm
health care, crime rates to education. and you can watch all of our reports, plus exclusive behind the scenes footage and extra content on "all in america.msnbc.com or all in with chris.com. i'm chris hayes. this is "all in america." thanks for watching. the theme in today's thus is that we live in a lurid, insider world of covert action, anonymous attacks, untraceable bad guys, spies and secret international fening aling. 'tis the season. today we learned that this is the spy whom president obama thanked and praised yesterday in his address to the nation, even though the president did not name him in that speech. >> cuba today released one of the most important intelligence agents that the united states has ever had in cuba and who has been in prison for nearly two decades. this man, whose sacrifice has been known to only a few
9:01 pm
provided america with the information that allowed us to arrest the network of cuban agents that included the men transferred to cuba today as well as other spies in the united states. this man is now safely on our shores. >> the president did not say this man's name. but there just aren't that many people in the world who would fit the description that the president gave. seems like the spanish language edition of the "miami herald" was first to guess, first to report out that the man who president obama was talking about and praising in his speech, it was flown out of cuba after nearly 20 years in jail seems like the spanish version of the herald was first to report it was rolando sarraff trujillo. the herald put his name out first and a lot of other publications filled in with reporting supporting the idea it was him and ultimately u.s. officials confirmed this is the guy, the superspy who president obama traded for. the man who the u.s. credits
9:02 pm
with wrapping up not one, not two, but three major cuban spying plots inside the united states. mr. sarraff worked in the cryptology section of cuba's directorate of intelligence. he was a cuban national. worked in the cuban directorate. they used to communicate back home to havana. one of the things we know about this woman, anna montez, one of the most damaging spies in american history. one of the things about her case is she specifically used a toshiba laptop computer to compose the encoded messages she sent back to her handlers in havana. when she was sending u.s. sec t secrets back to cuba. part of the way the fbi and ultimately the pentagon caught her is that they had been tipped off somehow to that specific fact about her. to the fact this spied who had access to high level information
9:03 pm
inside the pentagon was specifically using a toshiba laptop computer to make those communications back to cuba. so when the investigators realized they had a mole in the pentagon they did old-fashioned detective work to narrow down the list of suspects. who had access to the kind of information that was being sent to cuba. tray tried to narrow down the list. when it came time to pinpoint the actual individual, they were able to do it in part because they got financial records that showed that ana montes, senior intelligence official at the defense intelligence agency, ana montes had taken out a line of credit at a comp usa store. then they were specifically able to fig are ot the reason she took the line of credit was to buy a toshiba laptop computer. they got a warrant, snuck into her house, found the toshiba lapgot, go through it. bingo. she turns out to be the spy. now we know that that initial kernel of data that led to her,
9:04 pm
well, we don't know, but now we can connect the dots. somebody working in the intelligence directorate in cuba, an expert in the coded messages that cuba's spies in the united states used to send american secrets home, that would be the kind of person who might notice a detail like what kind of computer that suspect or that spy was using to send home that information. this spy, this super damaging spy was sending home her messages an a toshiba laptop. and that information is credited with wrapping up ana montes at the pentagon. this spy is credited with leads that led to kendall meyers. he spied for cuba from inside the state department for nearly 30 years. this cuban spy is -- this guy who was just freed from cuba is credited with the information that led to a huge network of cuban spies operating inside the cuban exile community in south florida. he worked in the cuban
9:05 pm
directorate of intelligence. cuba apparently caught him, figured out what he was doing in 1995, convicted him of espionage. he was committing espionage for the united states. they sentenced him to 25 years. president obama got him out as of yesterday and flew him to the united states. his family in cuba spoke to reporters saying they have no idea where he is. we are told he is somewhere in the united states. nobody has seen him yet publicly. now we know a lot more about the spies and the subter fuj that led to this big change in cuban policy yesterday. we also know more about how the deal came together. very shortly after he was re-elected and started his second term in early 2013, president obama personally authorized a new fresh overture to the cuban government. at the end of his first term when hillary clinton was leaving as secretary of state she'd written a memo to the obama white house suggesting a new tofrt try to normalize relations with cuba and try to get rid of
9:06 pm
the embargo. president obama did start that effort secretly at the very beginning of his second term. he chose not to go through the state department. he chose not to go through the proper diplomatic channels in order to make this overture. instead, what he decided to do was go outside the state department, outside normal overt diplomatic channels and instead, this negotiation happened basically directly from one president's office to another. basically from president obama's office to raul castro's office. presidency to presidency. president obama tapped these two guys, ben rhodes, deputy national security adviser and ricardo zuniga from the national security council and in secret they were the two who made this overture to the cuban government and started these talks. they started a weird travel schedule where the two of them
9:07 pm
would fly to ottawa or sometimes to toronto. they flew commercial so it wouldn't seem like they were there doing any official government business. cuban officials from their president's office would then also fly up to canada in a low-profile super secret way to engage in these meetings. the canadian government hosted seven of these meetings. and again, further interest here. the canadians were hosting all of these talks. they were having them happen an canadian soil. helping keep them secret. but the canadian government itself did not participate in the talks at all. it was in canada but just the u.s. and cuba. a very small number of very high ranking presidential advisers on each side. the only other entity involved at all was the pope. president obama, you might remember, he went to the vatican to meet with pope francis last march. one of the things they talked about there in some detail was the american relationship with cuba. "the new york times" describes
9:08 pm
it today as president obama briefing pope francis, quote in a one on one meeting over a spare defrk adorned with a gold crucifix at the vatican. so the pope apparently followed up this one on one briefing from president obama with personal letters that he wrote both to the white house and raul castro asking both men to keep pushing to get their governments to come to some kind of agreement. meanwhile, the two sides, the two negotiators kept secretly meeting in canada over this year and a half long effort. finally, the deal about swapping the spies and freeing alan gross, this usaid guy. the final deal an the spy swap and prisoner releases happened at the vatican just two months ago. it happened in october. they had one more logistics meeting thereafter in canada to plan the nitty-gritty, including the flight schedules and choreograph the handoff of the spies. once the deal was settled on and
9:09 pm
arranged it was two days after the midterms when president obama convened a national security council meeting at the white house so the national security council could get briefed an the deal and sign off on it. that was november 6th when the national security council got briefed on what was about to happen with cuba. honestly given washington, one of the most amazing parts is the national security council knew about all of this as of november 6th and here it is december whatever and none of it leaked. none of it leaked over the next six weeks. it didn't leak, and it worked. and so here are the three cuban spies who we traded to them meet with raul castro. and somewhere in america right now, apparently is rolando sarriff trujillo who president obama described yesterday in his speech. we don't know where in america he is but he was brought to this country with the president thanking him and singing his praises after he spent nearly 20
9:10 pm
years in jail for spying on behalf of this country inside cuba's intelligence directorate. i know, right? and, meanwhile, while all that has been happening, all that skulldugry and secrecy and drama you wouldn't believe if it was in a book, we're told president obama's participating in daily meetings with intelligence diplomatic law enforcement and military officials on another supersecret issue of national security intrigue. and this one concerns north korea. last night we reported that anonymous u.s. government sources were letting it be known that the government had concluded that north korea, as a state entity, was behind the attacks on sony pictures recently. and the attacks on sony pictures, the hacking attacks an sony pictures have been a cross between a celebrity gossip story and a particularly dramatic business story. sony had their computer networks hacked. had all their private and
9:11 pm
proprietary company information posted online, including really lurid and damaging personal e-mails, medical histories, also their most valuable intellectual property, including the scripts for forthcoming movies. they also destroyed information on some sony machines by just wiping some computers clean. it was basically a very dramatic business story with a lot of gossip and celebrity news mixed in, until it crossed into a different kind of story. when the hacking also develops to include threats that there would be physical attacks on movie theaters that showed sony pictures new comedy which satirically deticts the assassination of kim jong-un. since those threats on movie theaters were publicized, lots of people have expressed anger at sony pictures and the nation's major movie chains for caving to that threat and saying then they wouldn't show the movie. beyond what those businesses chose to do and how they chose to assess the risk and how they
9:12 pm
made the business decision they had to make and the values decision they had to make. beyond that as a private business matter, the united states government has some really woolly decisions to make here. there's a big picture question of to what degree an attack an a private company is a u.s. government responsibility to either prevent or respond to. earlier this year, the u.s. government indicted five chinese military officers for their alleged role in hacking into american companies in order to steal trade secrets. is this the same criminal matter? if so, does an indictment make sense? does it make more sense against north korea than it did china? nobody expects though five chinese military officers are ever going to end up in an american courtroom facing those charges. that prospect seems more remote for anonymous north korean hackers. beyond the attack an sony, though, there's also the threat to kill americans on u.s. soil. this threat of physical
9:13 pm
violence. we'll all be killed at the movie theater if any of us choose to offend the dear leader by going to the mall to see this movie they don't like. jeh johnson has said that americans shouldn't be afraid of that threat in a material way. americans should feel very free and very safe in going to the movies. jeh johnson told andrea mitchell today the government has no specific credible intelligence any of attempt or any plan to attack movie theaters or any plan luke that that might be in the works. but the question for the u.s. government is how to respond to the fact that the threat has been made, whether or not the threat is credible. let me -- clearly, if this is north korea and them taking action as a state, they are trying to provoke some sort of response from the united states as a state. their reason for living, their justification for why the north korean government has to be as crazy as they are is that they are constantly telling their own people that they are already at war with the united states.
9:14 pm
that we're obsessed with them, we're hostile to them. the united states is constantly threatening to invade them and they are only defending themselves from the united states and our terrible aggression. that's their whole line. in august 2012 we did military exercises with south korea. kim jong-il announced it was our war rehearsal for our impending invasion of north korea. last year they said their long-range rockets should be seen as a new phase in their ongoing war with the united states. last february, they did another nuclear test and said they had to do that nuclear test in order to defend themselves, quote in the face of the ferocious hostile act of the united states. last march they announced they were not only at war with south korea again but their war with us had gone to 11. last march, north korea said they'd not limit themselves to limited warfare with the united states but they'd engage in all-out war and nuclear war. north korean state media
9:15 pm
reported this subtle hint of a threat at the time. we will first target and dissolve mainland united states, hawaii and guam and united states military based in south korea. that same month they released this rather amazing propaganda video showing how they'd use north korean missiles to blow up the white house and the u.s. capitol and you get the point. so they already tell their own people that the united states is waging a war on them. that's how they justify to their own people why they have to be so freaking crazy and repressive because only kim jong be can keep them safe from the invading terrible americans. whatever response they are trying to provoke from the united states government right now should not help them make that case. they really do want war or at least something that looks like war with us. they want to seem important enough that we'd have a war with them. and so the white house today
9:16 pm
went to great pains to say that what they are considering, what the president is having all these meetings about on a daily basis is what would be the appropriate proportional response to what north korea seems to be doing. >> we need a proportional response. sophisticated actors when they carry out actions like this are oftentimes, not always, but often seeking to provoke a response from the united states of america. they may believe that a response from us in one fashion or another would be advantageous to them. >> so what are the rules here? and what are the options? with any normal country you'd like yank the ambassador. you'd try to organize sanctions. because it's north korea, we already don't have an ambassador. we don't have diplomatic relations with them. and they are already under incredible sanctions and incredibly internationally isolated because of every other
9:17 pm
crazy thing about them, including their nuclear program. north korea is already a pariah state among the nations. so the normal things you would do to isolate a cannot as punishment for bad behavior, those aren't available in the case of north korea. president obama said to be meetding with law enforcement, intelligence agencies, diplomats and the military in terms of how to come up with a response to what north korea may or may not have done but the u.s. government is leaning toward saying they did it. one part of the military now is the u.s. cybercommand, which is based at ft. mead with the nsa. we think of cybercommand as playing defense against attacks from other countries on the united states and u.s. interests. but are they an option for a case like this in terms of playing offense as well? is that part of what the united states is considering in terms of a range of options? and if the united states does decide definitively that this is north korea and that we are going to respond somehow, what
9:18 pm
are the odds that we won't actually know what our government response is? because it will be done in secret as some sort of covert action. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further. alright, so this tylenol arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain.
9:20 pm
we need a proportional response. sophisticated actors when they carry out actions like this are oftentimes -- not always, but often seeking to provoke a response from the united states of america. they may believe that a response from us in one fashion or another would be advantageous to them. >> josh speaking today at the white house. joining susjason healy, from the atlantic council. thanks for being with us. appreciatior time tonight. >> thank you. >> the watch word from the administration has been proportional response. in the context of a big hacking attack and then a threat of physical violence, do we have any state crafty sense of what
9:21 pm
proportional means? >> especially what does proportional mean when dealing with crazies like north korea? >> yeah. >> so when the north koreans sank a south korean naval vessel, they killed 46 sailors, the response to that, the proportional response to that was cranking up sanctions to 11. we can crank sanctions back up to 11. i'm sure we'll consider that and consider talk with our allies, japan, south korea and maybe going to the security council. normally when we talk about a proportional attack, we mean an attack that kills people. this was predominantly an attack an free speech, on free expression. this is going to make it extremely difficult for the white house. i don't see how they get their way through this easily. >> in terms of how he united states has decided or is in the process of deciding that north korea did this, in terms of all
9:22 pm
forms of warfare and all forms of foreign policy and international disputes, atribution is always key. knowing exactly who did this is key. can you ever truly have sort of fingerprint identification in hacking attacks like this? when it comes to things that can be committed not only by remote but routed through all kinds of international servers? >> it can be very confusing, but things like this -- the most disruptive attacks, and i don't necessarily count sony as part of that, tend to happen when there's a real national security crisis between existing geopolitical rivals. like russia versus estonia in 2007. or rshia against georgia in 2008. you never see philippines go up against botswana. you are seeing it during existing national security crises. for the most damaging ones. for ones like this, like sony,
9:23 pm
like some of the other ones we've been seeing, they are so confusing because they aren't all that damaging. nobody has died. it's been a bad attack on a company, but not that bad an attack an a country. >> in terms of america's capabilities in this type of -- i want to call it even conflict. i'm not sure. in terms of america's capabilities when it comes to cybersecurity and cyberwarfare. the united states cybercommand was in the military. is that essentially a defensive organization that's about hardening american targets, either governmental, military or even american commercial targets. or is that part of our military that is doing offensive work to screw up other countries essentially by hacking in the name of the u.s. military? >> no, no, no, they are not just defensive. and our cyberleaders are quite proud about their offensive capabilities.
9:24 pm
one of the previous vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff really wanted to get out there and brag about our capabilities so that it might possibly deter our adversaries. after the attack an stuxnet, i don't think many countries would doubt our prowess in using cybercapabilities or our will to use them. but they are the north koreans. what is there to shoot at? if the attack were still going we could kornt attack and try to make it stop but what can you do now? i don't think there's much to be done an cyber. >> jason healey. this is slightly mind-bending stuff for those of us who don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. a little stumbling out of the gate never hurt a really good presidential candidate. what does it do to a really bad presidential candidate?
9:25 pm
you got the bargain kind? you would need like a bunch of those to clean this mess. then i'll use a bunch of them. what are you doing? dish issues? ... ... get cascade complete. one pac cleans better than six pacs of the bargain brand combined. cascade. now that's clean. ime know i'm doing a good job.ts i like it when my toothpaste lets me know too. that's why i went pro. go pro with crest pro-health. for an intensive clean. i can really feel it deep cleaning my mouth.
9:26 pm
for a 4x better clean try these products together. that was a great check up. some people have said we ought to close guantanamo. my view is we ought to double guantanamo. >> double it! i see your support for guantanamo and i raise you one whole other guantanamo. double it. this is a strategy to try to stand out from the pack when you don't. you go big. seven years after double guantanamo, now it's jeb bush. a couple weeks ago, jeb bush had an event in the state he used to govern, florida. he gave a speech to an anti-cuba american pac. >> we have consider strengthening it to put pressure on the could bean regime. >> five decades of embargo is
9:27 pm
just not enough. go longer. we need a bigger, stronger one. jeb bash has been out of office almost eight years ago. as a candidate, jeb bush might be a little rusty and will have to find his sea legs out there on the campaign trail. an tuesday, jeb bush officially announced he'll be actively exploring the possibility of running for president. he announced that on tuesday. the very next day, huge political windfall for jeb bush. he got the chance to do some very active exploring of his candidacy when president obama announced he was normalizing relations with cuba. that's jeb bush's issue. he made his florida political career by building support among the cuban american anti-castro community. so jeb bush jumped right in as soon as president obama made his announcement. a mealy mouthed comment to a
9:28 pm
miami herald reporter. i don't think we should be negotiating with a repressive regime to make changes in our relationship with them. didn't exactly sail out of the park an that. later in the day decided that wasn't strong enough. decided to go back to facebook where he's apparently more comfortable and gave it another shot. he said this. the obama administration's decision to restore diplomatic ties with cuba is the latest foreign policy misstep by this president and another dramatic overreach of his executive authority. so no legislate up an the sanctions. double the embargo against cuba. the embargo is what we need. sort of an awesome position. strength, right? few hours until andrew kazinsky noted that jeb bush has been getting paid for years by a bank that's been nailed for violating the sanctions against cuba and illegally doing business there. since 2008, jeb bush has been a
9:29 pm
have paid adviser to the british bank barclays. they've been paying roughly $1 million a year. he's been there since 2008. in 2010. barclays was fined nearly $300 million because the bank was fond to have been deliberately hiding its financial transactions with cuba and several other sanctioned regimes over more than a decade. president obama normal ooiizes relations with cuba. buzzfeed reports jeb bush has been working for a bank violating those sanctions for years. and then this morning in a totally unrelated development it was announced that jeb bash would be leaving barclays in two weeks. tah-dah. jeb bush had to know this was coming. he was working for barclays when they were forced to pay a $300 million fine for evading the embargo in cuba. his signature issue is the
9:30 pm
embargo in cuba. but right out of the gate, his first day of active lie exploring a run for president, he runs smack into that wall. people say jeb bush is the new mitt romney. people who really like the idea of jeb bush running for president say that. people who really hate the idea of jeb baush running for president say that, too. only nicorette gum has patented dual-coated technology for great taste. plus nicorette gum gives you intense craving relief. and that helps put my craving in its place. that's why i only choose nicorette. i will take beauty into my own hands where it belongs. olay regenerist instantly
9:31 pm
changes the look of skin. it regenerates surface cells new skin is revealed in only 5 days without drastic measures. stunningly youthful, award-winning skin. never settle for anything less. the regenerist collection, from the world's number 1 olay, your best beautiful so you can see like right here i can just... you know, check my policy here, add a car, ah speak to customer service, check on a claim...you know, all with the ah, tap of my geico app. oh, that's so cool. well, i would disagree with you but, ah, that would make me a liar. no dude, you're on the jumbotron! whoa. ah...yeah, pretty much walked into that one. geico anywhere anytime. just a tap away on the geico app.
9:32 pm
i'm sure you know what this meeting is about. yes, a raise. i'm letting you go. i knew that. you see, this is my amerivest managed... balances. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold. quarters. quarters...yup. then amerivest gives me back their advisory... stocks. fees. fees. fees for those quarters. yeah. so, i'm confident i'm in good hands. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.
9:34 pm
for mature audiences only. if you get uncomfortable witnessing public displays of affection, please avert your eyes. >> i respect that guy. he is tough. he delivers what he says he'll deliver. he knows his people. presents himself as a real he-man. >> he's a statesman, a partner in peace and is in a position he can lecture the united states of america. >> decides what he wants to do and does it in half a day. he makes a decision and executes it, quickly. then everybody reacts. that's what you call a leader. >> the right wing is in love. they have been all year. and it's been awkward and embarrassing to watch all year. but now it's become a love that dare not speak its name. they've had to put their love back in the closet. it's very sad. but that very sad story is coming up next. stay with us. r, with new covergirl full lash bloom mascara. finally! volume that's soft - not spiky.
9:36 pm
is a really big deal.u with aches, fever and chills- there's no such thing as a little flu. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies. attack the flu virus at its source with prescription tamiflu. and call your doctor right away. tamiflu is fda approved to treat the flu in people 2 weeks and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing, have serious health conditions, or take other medicines. if you develop an allergic reaction, a severe rash, or signs of unusual behavior, stop taking tamiflu and call your doctor immediately. children and adolescents in particular may be at an increased risk of seizures, confusion or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting.
9:37 pm
ask your doctor about tamiflu and attack the flu virus at its source. goodnight. goodnight. for those kept awake by pain... the night is anything but good. introducing new aleve pm. the first to combine a safe sleep aid. plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last until the am. now you can have a good night and a... good morning! new aleve pm. for a better am. ime know i'm doing a good job.ts i like it when my toothpaste lets me know too. that's why i went pro. go pro with crest pro-health. for an intensive clean. i can really feel it deep cleaning my mouth. for a 4x better clean try these products together. that was a great check up.
9:38 pm
p.m. eastern, president obama will hold his end of the year press conference. it's always a little weird. always at least some news made and frankly everybody is a little punchy. >> you know what they say. it's the most wonderful press conference of the year. >> it is. it usually is. 1:30 eastern time tomorrow. the most wonderful presidential press conference of the year. today on the other side of the world, russian president vladimir putin held his end of the year press conference. his are pretty wonderful in its own way. they usually go on for three hours or four hours or more. today his marathon session with the press also included questions bhs love life. he assured the russian people that he and his ex-wife are on good terms and he's found someone new. he told the russian press, i have love in my life. i love and am loved.
9:39 pm
vladimir putin's current status is loving and loved. the loved part we already knew about in this country. at least anyone who watches fox news already knew it. >> russia is the player here. it's a big player, not the united states. i think, frankly, in the last week, vladimir putin has looked like a statesman. >> he's a partner in peace. and he's in a position he can lecture the united states of america. >> i think if this were a tennis match it would be the umpire saying adventure putin. >> i think putin has outperformed our president. >> putin decides what he wants to do and does it in half a day. he makes a decision and executes it quickly. then everybody reacts. that's what you call a leader. >> putin is playing chess. we're playing marbles. >> i think mike rogers was right yesterday. he said the president is playing
9:40 pm
marbles while putin is playing chess. >> the conservative line on vladimir putin is he puts our own american president to shame in smarts and leadership and decisiveness and putin is playing chess while president obama is playing something that doesn't even happen on a chess board. putin makes up his mind and does it in half a day. vladimir. american conservatives have kept up this strange love song for putin as russia invaded ukraine and took over crimea. as russia was getting kicked out of the ranks of first tier nations in the global community. he's been an object of lust and wonder. for the rest of the world he's faced repeated sanctions by the u.s. and other countries. those sanctions have really, really hurt. he canceled a big pipeline he meant to build for russian gas. when you alienate the world by invading other countries you
9:41 pm
alienate your customers. the collapsing price of oil has been a sledgehammer to the already shaky russian economy. the russian economy is sliding into a recession. their currency, the russian ruble fell off a cliff this week. to you and me this just looks like a chart or somebody going cliff diving. to bankers, this is a portrait of fear. in his hours-long press conference today, mr. putin blamed external factors for the economic nosedive in russia. he assured russians the country would bounce back. in the streets, ordinary russians have been rushing to buy anything they can buy that might hold value. racing to buy whatever they can because no telling what their money will be worth hour to hour. apple, the apple corporation stopped selling stuff in russia. you could not buy an iphone or ipad or anything else from apple's online store because
9:42 pm
apple could not figure out how much to charge you because no one can be sure what russian money is worth, only that its value changes from hour to hour. mr. get it done, mr., now that's a real leader, mr. three-dimensional chess appears to truly, final have driven his nation's economy to ruin. >> that's what you call a leader. >> i of all people realize the temptation to say neener-neener at a moment like this. it would be nice to hear conservatives acknowledge this was maybe an inappropriate crush that maybe they fell for the manly propaganda. he's not a genius and the strategy to isolate hum and punish him by getting the world an our side against him, that strategy appears to have worked and to be working. but we're not going to get an acknowledgment like that on fox news. in the absence of that, since it's never going to happen, should we worry a little bit that russia is tanking as hard
9:43 pm
as it is. first of all, russians are people. they aren't all vladimir putin and they'll suffer as this crisis wears on. he's going to be fine. russia is a big country with a lot of people. it's not usually a zero-sum game. if putin sucks too badly, if russia is going off the cliff in a way that's not going to reverse any time soon, how much should we worry about that despite the political shoddenfreud it might bring with it? joining us is an nbc news analyst, professor mcfall. thank you for being with us. does the rest of the world face trouble if the russian economy continues on the path that it's in? are they isolated enough from the global economy their problems can be their own or could they drag other people down with them? >> i just agree entirely with
9:44 pm
what you just said before coming to me about this putin the great leader and, you know, maybe he looked great in the spring. if we're now at the end of the year, decisions he made then are coming back to haunt him and the people of russia are suffering from it. to your question, i do think we don't want the russian economy to tank. it would have negative consequences for the global economy. instead, what we support for putin to change his behavior in ukraine. i'm cautiously optimistic that the economic pressure of which sanctions have been a part of have now compelled him to start to think in that direction. putin is always a big brovado guy, especially in these press conferences. i was struck by how cautious he was. maybe we might be able to do a deal after the new year. >> do you see some path by which he can make the kind of change that the american government wants and lots of other
9:45 pm
countries around the world wants but he could somehow call it a win for himself, find some saving face way to do it? >> of course, that's the hard part because saving face is so important to him personally. but i do see it. i see a way forward if, indeed, there could be some kind of afford principally done between president poroshenko and the so-called rebels or terrorists or freedom fighters, whatever you want to call them in eastern, craukraine and if poroshenko said we could endorse that, then the west can endorse it. the key is the ukrainians. has to be a deal kiev approves not a deal putin and obama cut. >> it gave him padding in terms of how much he can bear. he can afford to take over
9:46 pm
crimea and host the olympics and whatever else he wanted to do. now that he doesn't have any money to spend and they are feeling this crunch and what's happening with their currency, what does that do to his leeway, his options for keeping the russian public happy for him and buoying himself politically at home? >> i think he has a problem. opinion polls say he's at 80%. remember, he controls all television stations. major television stations. he controls the congress. there's no opposition leader. that number is soft. people are beginning to wonder about his course. you see it in polls. i feel it in talking to my friends in russia. he said in two years we're going to turn it around. that's what he claimed in his press conference. he didn't outline a strategy for doing that. that didn't set well with bankers and it didn't sit well with common russians who are
9:47 pm
worried about the future. it's always been his deal. you let me govern the way i want. i will grow the economy. next year the economy is not going to grow and that does over time create a real problem for him going forward. >> michael mcfall, great to have you here. thanks for your time. as bad as things are very vladimir, though, he is loved. what are you doing? the dishes are clean.
9:48 pm
i just gotta scrape the rest of the food off them. ew. dish issues? cascade platinum powers through your toughest messes better than the competition the first time. cascade. now that's clean. i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. i better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn't treat chest congestion. really? new alka-seltzer plus day powder rushes relief to your worst cold symptoms plus chest congestion. [breath of relief] oh, what a relief it is. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim. "how can my car depreciate before it's first oil change?" you ask. maybe the better question is, why do you have that insurance company? with liberty mutual new car replacement, we'll replace the full value of your car. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. vo: the good more is capturing heey! the moment they open their gifts from verizon. awesome, woah!
9:49 pm
a bose bluetooth speaker! and...cut. the not-so-good-more alright honey, this time face towards the light. is take two. were you naughty? were you nice? that's the tension i need to see. alright, we're losing light, people. action! wow. cut. i'm not feeling it, sweetheart. we're gonna have to go in a different direction. doug? vo: now get the samsung galaxy s5 for 0 down + 100 back with trade in. wow! nice! and get $150 credit when you switch to verizon. programming note. later tonight, my colleague chris hayes will be packing heat. chris has done a really, really good "all in america" series on the one kind of gun that the nra does not want you to be able to buy. it's really, really good feature airing tonight at 11:00 p.m. on msnbc. lambchop's got a gun.
9:51 pm
this is a happy story. tonight we have a website for sale. it's because of this person. her name is christina kishimoto, dr. k. she is a school superintendent which means she runs whole school districts. the teachers and custodians and bus drivers and presence pals and coaches all work for her. she also has a boss.
9:52 pm
her boss as superintendent is the school board. this summer, she got a new superintendent job. hired by the school board to be the new superintendent in gilbert, arizona. an extension of the sprawl of phoenix. a very conservative part of the country. when the local elicted school board decided to hire her, the tea party majority was also at the same time already working on a new idea. they wanted to tear pages out of the honors biology textbooks in gill berts, arizona. they wanted to redact parts of the biology textbooks that made them uncomfortable. that was the ongoing discussion this new superintendent walked into on her first day on the job. in october her new bosses, the conservative school board decided the redactsing should happen. the board ordered her to come up with a plan for getting rid of the offending material in the textbooks. a sharpie over the paragraph,
9:53 pm
cut the paragraphs out. if it's cheaper and faster to just rip the pages out. get that material out of there and dr. k, report back on your chosen method. that happened in october. and christina kishimoto, the new superintendent basically said no. she couldn't tell them no exactly because the school board is her boss, but she told them their big idea would not work out the way she said. she said giving students textbooks with blank spots will send students to the internet machine. she suggested they should turn the matter over to her. they should let her come up with a plan for maybe not cutting stuff out but adding additional information that might make the board more comfortable. as this drama was playing out, the town of gilbert held an election and they decided on a
9:54 pm
new majority. the new majority is still very conservative but they don't want the pages torn out. there's been this interesting lame-duck period. in the meantime, the old tea party majority is still around. they had one last meeting this week they could order the superintendent to tear out the pages if they wanted to. they held that final meeting. the superintendent told the tea party majority she disagreed with their big idea. and the board caved. they changed their mind. gilbert board on biology textbook redaction. never mind. they decided to go with the superintendent's plan to add information alongside what's already in the books rather than tearing stuff out. dr. kishimoto said she's already begin building a team of biology professors who will write the two or three extra pages. the plan is to put this additional information in an envelope they'll attach to the inside cover of the biology
9:55 pm
books. she did not find it scary facing down her new bosses. she just kept saying what she thought was the right thing. i knew i had to walk a careful line here. i added my perspective and put it in there as a perspective. she did that over and over again until she won. we happily have a web address to give away. we've been keeping the pages that were to be redacted online. we posted them front and back. we posted them at arizona honorsbiology.com for safe keeping. now we don't need that. arizona honors biology.com has served its purpose. if there's an arizona honors biology teacher out there that can put it to an unforeseen good use, please holler ot. let us know. the address is up for grabs very happily. now.
9:56 pm
i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3...2...1... are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable. which means it's timeson for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models. get to the terminal across town. are all the green lights you? no. it's called grid iq.
9:57 pm
9:58 pm
introducing dance-all-you want new always discreet underwear for sensitive bladders from always, the experts in feminine protection. only always discreet underwear has soft dual leakguard barriers to help stop leaks where they happen most. plus, always discreet has a discreet fit that hugs your curves. you barely feel it. new always discreet underwear. now bladder leaks can feel like no big deal. because, hey, pee happens.
9:59 pm
for students and alums of texas a&m, this is a campus icon. it's called the academic building. but today it almost got a new and way less generic name. the board of regents was set to rename that central building on the texas a&m campus. it was going to be called the governor rick perry building. james ritchard perry, aka rick perry class of '72 seen here in his texas a&m cadet uniform. the plan for the name change came as a surprise to current texas a&m students only told about the name change a couple days ago. they were not psyched it was going to get named after a guy with a 2.2 gpa. earlier this week the governor was excited by the honor of having the building named after him but now after the students
10:00 pm
protested, it's not going to happen. governor perry is trying to say it was his decision. he didn't want that building named after him after all. but honestly, he said just a couple days ago how psyched he that does it for us tonight. see you tomorrow and now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> the potential republican presidential candidates are now reacting to president obama's cuba policy, and one of them actually agrees with the president. and tonight, we are learning more about the north korean group that u.s. government officials believe attacked sony and threatened american moviegoers. >> this is a president who is not giving up on his second term. >> the president's plans are sweeping. >> it's an impressive scorecard for this guy. >> this is chump change compared to what's going to happen in the next two years.
90 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
MSNBC WestUploaded by TV Archive on
![](http://athena.archive.org/0.gif?kind=track_js&track_js_case=control&cache_bust=1435312243)