rtners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. was it revenge? good morning, thanks for getting up with us this sunday morning. right now we want to begin with our coverage on the very latest of the fatal shooting of two police officers that took place here in new york city yesterday. a gunman walked up to the window of a patrol car and the two officers were seated inside and he shot them both in the head in broad daylight. >> today two of new york's finest were shot and killed with

no warning, no provocation. they were quite simply assassinated. >> the suspect has been identified as ismaaiyl brinsley. this is a mug shot of an arrest in georgia. he ran into a nearby subway station where he killed himself. yesterday he'd apparently written in an instagram account that this would be his final post. he would put wings on two cops today. "they take one of ours, let's take two of theirs." he added the #restinpeaceericgarner. they believe this is brinsley's account. he began his day yesterday in baltimore. he went to the home of a former girlfriend, shot and wounded her. and once they discovered his instagram post, they sent warnings to the nypd. but new york's police commissioner said it was received moments too late. and then last night, dozens, if

not hundreds of new york city cops and firefighters lined up outside the hospital where the slainorsofficers were taken. victims had been identified as officers rafael ramos and wenjian liu. >> our city is in mourning and our hearts are heavy. we lost two good men who devoted their lives to protecting all of us. it is an attack on all of us. it is an attack on everything we hold dear. >> early this morning, president obama are elireleased a stateme calling the officers brave men and he condemns the killing. eric holder called the killings senseless and an unspeakable act of barberism. the person president obama has nominated to replace holder as attorney general loretta lynch promised a complete

investigation of this horrific crime. the reverend al sharpton who hosts a show on this network denounced the violence and said that eric garner's family has no connection to the suspect and michael brown's family in missouri rejected the violence in a statement they posted online. adam reece joins us now from the crime scene in brooklyn. so, adam, we went through the basics there. what are the things now that we have yet to find out about this, that are going to be learned today, hopefully. >> steve, investigators will continue to comb this neighborhood here in brooklyn looking to talk to more eyewitnesses and what police commissioner bratton is calling a cold blooded assassination. a makeshift memorial has been set up here. candles and flowers to mourn the two officers. one married just two months ago and the other leaving behind two young sons. they'll look into brinsley's social media account. what did he leave online?

what digital footprint did he leave. we know he was on a mission here to kill two police officers, but what more can they learn? in addition, we have learned from "new york daily news" they'll look into this that he was possibly a member of a prison gang in baltimorep the name of the gang, the black guerilla family. >> the scene at the hospital last night, i think we showed pictures from that. the fellow officers forming an honor guard. tell us about what was going on there last night. >> there is video, steve, of dozens of officers when the mayor arrived. they turned their backs on the mayor. now to say that relations between the police and the mayor's office is icy would be an understatement. they turned their backs as he came on to the third floor to meet with the families of the slain officers. and in addition, the head of the police officers' union has said, "the blood on the hands starts

at the steps of city hall." >> wow. adam reece, some strong words there. appreciate the report, again, from the scene of the crime yesterday. adam. as adam was saying, since the eric garner grand jury decision a few weeks ago bill de blasio and pat lynch has been engaged in a public dispute over the treatment of police officers. last night lynch was blaming the mayor and the people who protested against the grand jury's decision. here is pat lynch. >> there's blood on many hands tonight. those that insighted violence on the street under the guise of protests that tried to tear down what new york city police officers did every day. it cannot be tolerated. that blood on their hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.

>> all right, joining us now is former nypd officer eugene o'donnell. now a professor here at john j. college in new york. when you're a police officer, it has to be on your mind that something like this is on yoalw possible. how much is it there day to day in an officer's mind. how do you live with this every day? >> in the city we have a good fortune of having an outstanding police department. it is restrained and does the job and takes risks all the time. in the last week or so we had two events where the cops could have shot people, but they didn't. it is on their mind, particularly in the climate we're talking about. so much irresponsible rhetoric comparing to the nypd to the and one thing to have legitimate criticisms about the justice system, which by the way many of the police people would share that. many things we said over the course of the last year.

>> just stuff you're hearing from random people or specific political leaders? >> i don't want to target people, but i think political leaders should have stepped up in the past year and defended this organization that is diverse and outstanding in so many ways and in demand. communities calling in nonstop asking for police service and for this department to be maligned in the way it has been malign eed for a year. people depicting the police as some sort of horrible alien force that doesn't represent the city. all the evidence is that this is an extraordinary organization. if you look at their record on deadly force. if you look at the restraint that they deal with. last week we had a police officer confront would a man who just stabbed somebody and he was waving a gigantic bloody knife at a police officer and that officer begged that man to drop the knife. took every step humanly possible and caught on viral that didn't go viral like these other things go viral. that's the police department

that i recognize. steve, those of us who know this police department, we have failed because we have not pushed back against this irresponsible stuff. a lot of legitimate criticism, but we don't recognize the police department that has been caricatured in this town in the last year. that's not the police department most of us. and tens of thousands of alumni of the nypd and prosecutors and people who work directly and they know a tremendous amount of untruth. how many people have you killed today being called out. that's hate speech. that has to be -- >> i mean, the backdrop for all of this, obviously, it's the death of eric garner and, obviously, the emotional response that people have to seeing the video like that and, obviously, what happened in ferguson involved the police department, obviously. what happened in ferguson creates sort of a national mood. so you have this moment we sort of been in where the focus has been on police violence. the focus has been on excessive police force and i think so many

people looking at that video of eric garner looked at that and said i don't know if there is a racial element of that. but, boy, that looks awfully excessive to me. we have an illustration of the everyday dangers that police officers face and sometimes it takes that symbolic moment to drive home to people. you look at the eric garner video and you say this is something that excessive force can do. wow, this is what they face every day on the streets. >> i think the cops are horrified. i talked to a cop that feels that that is something to be happy about at all. tremendous, you know, regret about that event. but incontext of this conversation over the last year has really gone off the rails. most people in the city are in the center and want to be in the center and have a responsible conversation. there is room for a forum. pba for several years now condemned publicly and repeatedly over policing. over creating quotas, making the cops make arrests they didn't

want to make. i hope in the next few weeks i can find some common ground here, which the city should warn th for these two police officers. >> we played the clip from pat lynch, what is your reaction? he's saying your are criticizin the general tone of some of the more antipolice stuff you heard. he specifically citing the mayor in this city and saying this starts in the mayor's office. what is your reaction hearing that? >> again, people are going to get tribal when the conversation gets polarized. people are going to dig in and i'm not surprised they're going to dig in. the challenge now in the next few weeks to get people to come together around the things that there is so much agreement about. remember, this is a police union. the cops do have due process rights. they're working class people. the idea that there is a powerhouse as individuals is not true. they work under very difficult conditions. it's a job that very high rate of disstats faction and the

notion that there is a powerful group of people and seems counterintuitive and as workers, as people in a workplace, they have no power at all and they spent a lot of time dealing with a pretty brutal internal bureaucracy and people should reflect on that also. >> we had that report from the hospital last night, officers turning their backs as the mayor entered. obviously, there's been, again, a back story to all of this. this moment of what happened last night and the relations between the police and the mayor not been good at all. what do you think those officers want to hear from the mayor at this point? >> i think, you know, a little eve ethere needs to be more people cannot break the law, people cannot assault the police. there are surrogates. these people were picked not because of who they were, they were picked as uniforms as surrogates to go out and do our job and elected officials say this is a job that involves

coercion and being done in our name. these community, particularly that particular location there have been concerns over there in that precinct which has the cops there. so, the elected leadership to be honest with you did not step up in the last year and did not explain that police power, police have a lot of power. it's hard to reign in police power and we keep adding more laws and broadening their portfolio. elected officials are the architects of that. prosecutors ratify those decisions. a lot of those folks were in short supply and explaining the system to people. they know the system and they know how hard it is to do reform. by the way, one of the things that we see is the idea of prisons being bad. of course, prisons are bad. jails are bad. this is a guy who should have been prisoned. or in a psychiatric institution. he should have been incapacitated. i'm sure the young woman who got shot in the stomach by him would wish this guy was locked up. we have to have a recalibration

in this whole conversation. >> it sounds like we will find out a lot more today and definitely in the near future about this guy's background and what lead to this. eugene, thanks for coming in. you'll be back with us next hour. much more on the police shooting throughout the morning and, first, could a very special screening, this is next, should a very special screening of the interview be in the works? we'll tell you about that. that's next. you get used to the pet odors in your couch. you think it smells fine, but your guests smell this.

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we'll be returning to the police shooting in brooklyn throughout the show. right now, we want to discuss the fallout over one of the biggest stories in recent days. the hackers who claim responsibility for the cyberattack on sony, that's an attack that the fbi has pinned on north korea, those hackers appear to have released a new

message now in which they mock the fbi. quoting from it here, the result of investigation by fbi is so excellent that you might have seen what we were doing with your own eyes. that's what the message reads. it continues, we congratulate your success. fbi is the best in the world. you will find the gift for fbi at the following address. that message links to a youtube video called "you are an idiot." meanwhile this morning we're also mulling over an intriguing plan to have the movie that was pulled "the interview" screened by a very small audience in the most high-profile setting possible. david vitter is encouraging president obama to screen the movie at the white house and invite members of congress over to watch it. followed by a discussion of what the u.s. will do to retaliate against cyberattacks. president obama has not responded yet to vitter's idea but he said friday that the u.s. will return to the cyberattack proportionately. we have "roll call" christina

and robert george and democratic strategist and obama 2012 spokesperson gabby. so, how about this idea. david, you know, make a statement, we're going to watch it. most sort of powerful influential people in the country. we have no problems seeing this. good politics. i tell you what, good politics for vitter, if nothing else. >> i think it's good politics for david vitter. i think it's good politics for president obama, as well. he said that he thought it was unwise for sony to pull the interview. we also, we also know that historically this president has not been that greatt with membes of congress. democrats themselves say that, as well. this could be a twopher. he brings them in and they watch this movie and official washington rhetorically gives the finger to north korea and the president can have some

conversations with members of congress. i think it's a great idea. >> if you're worried about the security of theaters so much that you pull the film, i don't know that bringing it to the white house with members of congress is the best idea, but it is good politics for vitter. i am like deeply offended by this whole thing. freedom of speech is so core to what we all do and it's really upsetting that this is how it has all played out. i can understand the emphasis for that. joe scarborough said let's play it at the kennedy center, but not sure that is legal since now the movie will never be seen ever. >> those on the right and on the left who want to see this as the posture or symbolic thing, when have we gotten that from this president? he doesn't do symbolic fluff things. i'm okay with him not mingling. >> if you can do an interview. not mingling as long as he is

getting briefed on the intelligence he needs. one thing i found out yesterday, did you know china owns amc movie theaters? so, this whole we need to talk to china in order for them to help us with this, so much more from this story to how it broke to what we're understanding now. i don't think the interview summit at the white house has anything -- >> it does seem like, i feel like this is tapped into something in this country. sort of a populous thing where it just feels like we're letting north korea boss us around and there's this appetite. if people could just download it themselves as their own personal statement, i'm sure that is one of the biggest. >> why hasn't private investigator come in and let us do all this? >> there's already talk that the streaming site crackle, which i think sony co-owns may be the venue where they end up running this. but the politics of this are rather interesting when george

clooney and some of the most conservative republicans are all on the same page in terms of this insult, this attack on american free speech and so forth. that really isn't, that really is an opening. can you imagine if they do something at the white house and they have, they bring george clooney and some of the hollywood types. >> if it's that symbolic, then why don't david vitter and all the other congressman go to this and call on their home state movie theaters to pick this up. this is on amc and all the movie theaters. >> the bigger question to me, this is one sort of possible response and sort of way to feed that appetite. but more sort of directly you have the president promising a proportionate response and i keep wondering, what does that mean? what could the president be doing here? what could the united states be doing here to respond to something like this? he is going out of his way to say this is not an act of war by north korea. when you're calling it terrorism and calling it an act of war, a

proportionate response is a lot more. >> the state department response in all of this has been interesting, too. not everybody is on the same page here. the whole scenario is so strange then with congress not calling on their home states and not saying, let's stand up in the face of this and it all happened so quickly. there wasn't even time for people to grandstand on it. you do the after the fact, let's all go to the white house movie theaters. republicans have criticized ad nause nauseum. >> the use of the movie theater. great coming together. i'm always too optimistic. all right, the panel is going to be back later this hour. they'll be back with us. up next, will jeb bush's last name help or hurt his chances of becoming the next president? some interesting numbers. we'll tackle that right after this. nly one network is america's largest and most reliable 4g lte network: verizon. with xlte, our 4g lte bandwidth has doubled in over 400 cities.

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politics with the 2016 race with one of the official developments taking place in that race. jeb bush announcement that he is launching an exploratory committee the first step towards a national campaign. another sign in his interest in running, he is stepping down from his paid adviser to b barclay's. he's no longer booking paid speaking gigs. there is a big potential problem for jeb bush. the problem is his last name. six years after his brother left office with poisonously low approval ratings a new news poll finds 57% of americans, that's nearly six in ten say they cannot see themselves supporting jeb bush in 2016. only 31% say they could see themselves doing that. so, this feels like the week of the republican primaries finally begin and jeb is clearly interested in being his party's nominee, but is that party ready to nominate another bush?

joined by our panel, christina bellatoni and democratic strategist. i got to say, i think the thing that's interesting to me about the bush coverage is we're hearing so much about he is going to be, this is the one the establishment wants. the and i feel like that what might have been said 15 years ago george w. there is some real baggage with this name. >> how can we have this conversation without talking about hillary clinton, again. a totally different scenario. while george w. bush did leave office with the low approval ratings, they're much higher now. he's fairly popular and a lot of voters you talk to like political success. they think this is a family that understands politics and they know how to navigate it. >> we vote for them. that's true. >> he'll have to run the

primaries on his own merits. the name is something he has to talk about and whether or not that is one that appeals to republican primary voters. >> our republican primary voters worry from more like a pragmatic standpoint. i'm not worried about the bush name, i kind of like the bushes. >> i think there are a handful, a handful of prag mu tists that are worried about that, but those same pragmatists are the money people who see him as a very, very solid guy. smart, very much intune. he is basically a policy even more so far more so than his brother. they like him. i think they like the cut of his jeb, as it were. >> that's bad. >> thank you very much. but the, but the problem is, though, conservatives. they don't like where he is on immigration. they don't like where he is on

common core. but if he manages to navigate his way through -- >> those are big. >> if he navigates his way through the primaries, a lot of that 57% are actually conservatives who don't like jeb for a number of reasons, but if he manages to navigate his way through the primaries, the republican base will be with him. again, if he's running against hillary clinton, the whole dynasty thing is a wash on both sides. >> i think -- >> are democrats, do you look at jeb bush and say this is the most electable republican? this is the one we'd least like to face in the fall? >> i as a lutina gement sdemocr his name recognition with hispanics. you need women, youth and latinos, basically. i don't think african-americans would vote for a bush. let's put it that way. >> one or two might. >> one or two might. so, these three, right.

if it's a clinton, because i think you're absolutely right. you can't talk about it without context. clinton/bush election hoping first woman president. youth versus another bush. latinos, that's where we have to be worried, in my opinion. >> he can make end roads there. >> he has name credibility -- >> and speaks spanish. >> all that stuff is posturing to me. i don't care if he speaks spanish. i care where you are on the issues. he has already started walking back some of his immigration stuff. because of the primary, how does he win the primary? >> the statement about an act of love is going to be played over and over and over again in this primary and that would help him in a general election. >> and that's, i mean, that was the rick perry thing, too, in the debate. you sdroentdon't have a heart. let me ask you, it seems like two tracks here when you look at the republican field. it's bush versus christi, versus

maybe mitt romney to be the establishment candidate and then everybody else. the voice of the base. bush doing it this week what does that do to christi and romney talk. >> jeb blocks up that money, but think about rand paul and marco rubio and suddenly barack obama has this decision on cuba and you get to talk about them and their little fight on this and you're not talking about jeb any more. hey, let's do this cuba thing. >> have the contender with the record in florida. >> but jeb bush is like his mentor. he's not running with jeb bush. >> but that is a kind of funny thing because as we said, there's the establishment versus the outsider primary within the republican party. but there's also a mini florida primary between rubio and bush. and arguably maybe a texas primary between ted cruz and rick perry. >> but bush doing it. i haven't talked to anybody who said, i think rubio will get in

against jeb. >> i think it's unlikely. but, the immigration, excuse me, the cuba decision definitely gave rubio a real big spark and actually allows him to build, rebuild relations with the base that was scarred in the immigration fight. so, there is a possibility. >> jeb's position sort of moderating on the immigration issue and it being engenen with and being part of the gang of eight. gives them both a little freedom if they're both in that race. >> maybe he'll surprise me. hey, we have two minnesotans in 2008. polante and bachmann. they weren't mentor protege. they'll be back when we look at the progressives and shaking up the democratic party that is still ahead. first, an update on the two new york city police officers.

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pictures this morning of fellow police officers placing flowers at the scene of yesterday's fatal shooting of two new york city police officers, obviously, an emotional scene there. we're learning more this morning about the two officers who were killed. a friend telling the associated press that rafael ramos was mare sxaed had a 13-year-old son and another who is in college. wenjian liu was on the job for seven years and two months ago got married. here to make sense of what happened and to talk about it in a little bit and all the new details as they come in. please, stay with us. it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas.

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or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some people had seizures while taking chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix or history of seizures. don' take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, or develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. i love myself as a non-smoker. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. we're going to have much more on the shooting of the two nypd officers in just a little bit. shifting back to our discussion of politics this hour, the movement to draft elizabeth warren picked up its most

prominent supporter yet this week. congressman keith ellison. "i would love to see elizabeth warren in this race. i think it would be fantastic. i think it would help the quality of the debate." ellison didn't stop short of saying whether he would support warren over hillary clinton and clinton continues to insist that she's not running for president and taken great pains not to visit iowa and new hampshire even on her book tour. vermont senator bernie sanders was in iowa this week to test the waters. also to call for a revolution saying that that is what it would take to fix the country and to convince him to run. quoting from sanders, there is no way we'll address the problems facing this country without a political revolution. this was sanders fourth trip this year to iowa. >> i'm one of the few people who will talk about this. you're looking at unbelievable greed and power on the part of the billionaire class. these guys want it all and they want to cut social security,

medicare, medicaid and that's what they want to do. i'll do everything i can do to stop them. >> so, sanders, former virginia senator jim webb and martin o'malley are all toying with running in 2016 to hillary's left and, of course, elizabeth warren that continues to draw the most headlines. warren issuing a new headline this week saying that less than a week after letting some of the big banks dictate language, the house is delaying implementation of another key part of the dodd/frank financial support. derail president obama's nominee for a top treasury post. warren is arguing that he's too close to wall street. >> enough is enough with wall street insiders getting key position after key position and the kind of croneyism that we've seen in the executive branch. >> so, is warren going to change her mind? can her mind be changed or is

somebody else from the left going to step up and challenge hillary clinton in 2016? back to talk about this our panel. we'll introduce them, again. robert george of "new york post" and gabby. how absolute is elizabeth warren? what she keeps saying when she's asked about this is, i am not running for president. when the question is, will you run for president. now, are we parsing that too closely or is that a politician leaving the door oepen? >> i don't know her personally, but the few times i spent with her, i don't sense she is someone who wants to be president. which is a different thing when you sit down with hillary clinton or interact with jim webb. she has a huge opportunity to effect change from within the senate, especially if somebody like bernie sanders is talking about these issues on a debate state with hillary clinton. it's like a twofer. her pushing the issues from the minority in the senate and getting that online base excited

about an issue. sanders running to hillary clinton's left. it forces them to talk about economic populism. resurgence in the democratic party. >> is part of it that she can't see, see like a path to victory? in 2006 i remember sort of the trajectory of the obama thing. the idea of obama running for president. it started out, he didn't seem interested and partly because he thought nobody could beat hillary clinton. he starts getting crowds of 5,000 people and he suddenly seems to reconsider and get very interesting. if you polhillry versus hillary clinton. hillary is still ahead by 40 points here. >> i think she serves a purpose either way. i can't speak for her, i agree with the word and that's what i've been thinking. the grassroots support for this and the move ones coming and doing this. i am getting e-mails from former obama colleagues saying, can you

join this. a difference between i don't want to do this, but the people i don't think being represented in washington want me to do it. that's something forceful there. >> think how inflew weuential t kennedy but he had an import within that party from the senate. if you don't want to be president, it doesn't matter how many people want you. >> where is the impact? will i be more impactful? >> he's in the kennedy seat, too. >> will i be more impactful from within and outside through, let's say, a bernie sanders or will i be more impactful throwing my hat in? >> it does have to, at a certain point, it does have to get to you as a human being, though. when there's people out there. it flatters you a little bit. you should be president. please, please, run for president. >> the other thing is, too, the longer that she leaves this out here, the more her voice is prominent within the senate. i mean, technically speaking, she doesn't really have to make a decision until some time in the middle of next year and if,

you know, if hillary clinton, you know, may decide not to run and there's probably a small chance of that. if she does, elizabeth warren can still jump in. you know, if he rules herself out now, people will stop paying attention to her. a lot less anyway. >> if it's not elizabeth warren, take it off the table. is bernie sanders, are we looking at hillary clinton. first, register as a democrat, i think. that's the first step. let's say he does that and becomes a democrat, is that the race we're looking at? hillary clinton versus bernie sanders? ten debates there. >> jim webb cannot be discounted. this is someone who has a strong talent and strong feelings about the clintons in general. >> what are his feelings about the clintons? >> well, we should ask him that question. they have evolved over the years. they helped him in his senate race and he said many times we're friendly and i respect her. he has said negative things about them, as well. >> vietnam vet versus bill

clinton had that whole draft dodging issue. i mean. >> we still care about vietnam. >> jim webb has a long, has a long memory. the thing is, though, he also has, he might very well be able to tap into a certain aspect of the populous argument, as well. and i think, i don't know democratic politics, but it seems he could very well do it in an even more, shall we say, energetic way than bernie sanders. >> sanders is very innenergetic. remember the philibernie. before ted cruz was popular for doing this against the conservatives. he rallied against extending the bush tax cuts. so much attention, broke twitter. he not only has energy, but the sort of ron paul of the democratic party in a way. he can generate the online money. raised enormous amounts of money. he's out there, 73. you get the young people sort of interested. he will never win the

nomination, but he pushes the argument in a different direction. >> so he's ron paul, not rand paul. >> that the left wants. >> we're seeing all these actions, but we're not motivating voters. they're both tapping into this. so, it's useful in some way to bring them in. it's very useful, in my opinion, from the policy discussion. look what happened with immigration when we had a crisis on the border and governor o'malley comes from the left and he's like, wait a second. these are human beings. this move of the debate just because he was thinking about running for president. the same thing that bernie sanders. >> it would be like a -- >> just a quick thing on the jim webb. when there are some people in the democratic party are saying it's time to write off the south. jim webb is somebody who i think will start trying to get some of those white voters in the south in the south back. >> yeah, well, i think the clintons still think they can. i don't know this year if that will happen. thanks to our panel for today. appreciate you all joining us this morning. as you know, we have been

staying on top of and we'll keep staying on top of the latest developments in the shooting deaths of those two nypd officers. we'll go live to the scene of that shooting in just a couple minutes. before that, up first, the c-span segment that went viral this week. christina talked about the philibernie. how about this one. the mom of oh, god, it's mom. joins us right after this. is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first month's payment on select new volkswagen models.

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some things go viral because they're cats and anything involving cats seem to go viral. other things, though, go viral because they're relevant, they're amazing, they're funny and deserve to be seen by millions of people. meet dallas and brad woodhouse. political operatives and brothers on opposite ends. as you have seen by now, if you have access to the internet, they were united this week doing their usual arguing when something unusual happened on c-span. this.

>> go to joy in raleigh, north carolina. >> hey, somebody from down south. >> you're right i'm from down south. i'm your mother and i disagree that all families are like ours. i don't know many families that are fighting at thanksgiving. >> is this really your mother? >> it's my mom. >> i was very glad that this thanksgiving was a year that you two were supposed to go to your in-laws and i'm hoping that you'll have some of this out of your system when you come here for christmas. >> yeah, we were not together this thanksgiving. we are most years. >> i would really like a peaceful christmas and i love you both. >> now, let me jump in. this was not planned. she called in on the normal line. >> all right, so, both of those sons, dallas and brad and their families are now home with their mother in north carolina for the holidays and we are lucky enough to have all three woodhouses joining us live this morning

from their christmas gathering. so, mrs. woodhouse, let me start with you. you said you hoped in that clip, you hoped that your sons get it out of their system and you guys can have a peaceful family christmas. is that what you're enjoying there? did they get it out of their systems? >> that's what i wanted. excuse me. it hasn't happened yet. but they've been busy so far. so, i'm asking everybody to pray for us to have a peaceful christmas. >> well, let me -- >> i figured out one answer, steve. we have a really big woodhouse extended christmas family party today and the woodhouses, when you get them all together have big, diverse political and my uncle, you know, back in the f '60s was the chair of the democratic party in north carolina. he's now a big conservative.

i mean, we have big diverse political views, but in a -- >> do you have a point? >> i have a point. in a show of bipartisan good faith, i have decided that i will not say a word about politics today. i'm sending my brother and i'm taking my son to the packers game. >> so, brad, can you make that same commitment? will you not say a word about politics? >> well, i can't make a commitment that i won't say a word about politics. but since dallas is going to charlotte today and i'm in raleigh, mom is safe from us having any political agreements. i can't speak for what is going to happen on christmas. just like on c-span, we can't. >> i think we were having some technical difficulties there, as you could see. i do want to thank joyce, dallas, brad -- we got them back. sorry about that. can we pull that back up on the

screen. so, mrs. woodhouse, we had a few technical difficulties there. i think one thing people who watch this clip, what were these guys like as kids? has it been your whole life with a democrat and republican arguing with each other? >> i'm sorry. i didn't hear the question. >> what were they like as kids? >> we were both democrat. we were both democrats and he became conservative and then we argued about politics. he was always trying to get me to vote his way. and i always let the children go in the booth with me until they could read how i was voting. so then i stopped that. but the woodhouse side of the family of mine were always

politically minded. as i've said, my husband had had brad watching when he was 5 years old and watching videos of franklin roosevelt, richard nixon. he loved history. we and we used to go on trips and when the children were young, do we have to go somewhere that is rich in history, but then they started enjoying history. >> the thing is, you know, we always argue. we don't argue about politics, we'd find something else to argue about. whether the sky is blue or what color santa's hat is or something like that. >> dallas will always find something to argue about. >> yeah, just me, really? it's just me, steve. >> yes. we could see. i think it sounds like it's both of you. sounds like they might be

starting another argument here. but we're having technical difficulties, too. i do want to thank joyce, dallas, brad taking a few minutes from their family christmas gathering joining us this morning and thanks skype for proving that was probably our first and last skype interview we'll attempt on this show. it was fun to talk to them. i hope you guys at home enjoyed that segment. again, sorry about the technical difficulties we were having there. a full hour of news and politics ahead. the latest on that police shooting in new york city. live to brooklyn on the other side of the break and also joined by new york city's longest serving congressman and his reaction. that's ahead.

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morning. a lot of ground to cover this hour, including the historic announcement president obama made this week about u.s. relations with cuba. former senator bob graham from florida will be here later in the hour. we want to begin this hour, though, with a developing story out of brooklyn. two new york city police officers were shot and killed yesterday. police say that revenge appears to be among the motives. in an instagram post, posted anti-police messages and hashtag's eric garner and michael brown. adam is live at the scene of the attack. adam, what can you tell us about, we were talking last hour about some of the reactions from police union leaders here essentially blaming this or laying some of the responsibility of this on the hands of the city, mayor de blasio. what is the mayor going to be doing this morning and today? >> steve, the mayor is headed to st. patrick's cathedral for mass this morning.

and as he does that, investigators will be combing the neighborhood here looking to talk to more eyewitnesses into what commissioner bratton is calling a targeted assassination. these officers targeted for their uniform. now, makeshift memorial has been set up behind me. you can see flowers and candles dropped off by residents and police officers in this area of brooklyn. and police will be looking into brinsley's social media. his digital footprint, if you will, to see what they can find out in addition to what they've learned in terms of his postings and what his motivation was in coming here to murder two police officers. now, last night we can tell you when the mayor showed up at the hospital to meet with the families of the slain officers, he was met by dozens of police officers with their backs turned towards him. and they said that the blood on the hands is left at the steps of city hall. that from the head of the

policeman's union. the blood on the hands is left at the steps of city hall. >> strong words as we say. adam reece for us live in brooklyn. appreciate the update for me this morning. thanks for that. both mayor bill de blasio and bill bratton showing emotion and even coming close to tears as they described the execution of those two new york city police officers. >> nevertheless, they do what we expect of them. they grieve, they mourn and then they go out on the streets of the city and work to keep it safe every day and every night. we have never and never will forget that mission. we will never forget the two young men who lost their lives today. >> in fact, emotions have been running high in new york city for weeks now. this ever since the staten island grand jury announced they would not pursue charges in the death of eric garner. the head of the city's police

union is blaming, as we said, the protesters of the garner decision and mayor de blasio for yesterday's shooting. some would resort to, this is the time that we must come together to support the families and friends of those brave officers new york city lost tonight, and the entire nypd community. former officer eugene o'donnell is back with us also a professor at john j. college. congressman, let me start with you. obviously, an incredible tragedy here. the reactions that we're starting to see come in as we talked about there, pat lynch, the head of the police union here basically saying that blood on the hands. blood left on the steps of city hall basically saying this is the mayor's responsibility in some way. what do you make of that reaction? >> it's not fair. this is the time that we all

feel pain. it doesn't help to throw gasoline on a terrible situation and to puolarize people. pat lynch gave new yorkers an opportunity to tell these brave men and women and the new york city police department how we love them. how we need them. how we support them. and not to allow the behavior of an animal who is, obviously, sick to damage an already sensitive relationship that law enforcement has some with some parts of our community. hatred can be contagious and lead to terrible things. now's the time to pause and to talk as new yorkers. about what's in the best interest of all of us. >> this relationship we're talking about between mayor de blasio here and the mayor in new

york city. this is something, in a moment, a long history to this moment. it has not been a good relationship for a long time now. when you look at how the mayor handled his end of that relationship. officers last night as the mayor arrived at the hospital turning their backs on him and just an incredible scene. >> that's wrong. >> has the mayor handled, has he made mistakes in how he handled this relationship? >> i don't think so. if there was a better way to do it, i'm sure the mayor would attempt to do that. the problem that we have, as i see it, is this blue wall of silence. there's no question in my mind that when someone joins the police department they are courageous individuals that are ready to put their lives on the line to protect other people. this is a courageous thing just by signing up. but when they see other people violating all our morality and taking advantage of someone that is unarmed, it's not so much the

police officer that is committing these criminal and moral acts because in all probability they have mental problems, too. it's the cop that doesn't want to get involved in it and refuses to say, hey, buddy, you wearing the uniform that i wear. i have to walk the streets and demand the respect of people and you're disrespecting the uniform. when you have this polarization and pat lynch gives to the policemen, we have to get back at them by insulting the mayor. when i walked into this building, i was just saying earlier, i went up to a policeman to offer my sympathies to him and i had no idea what his reaction was going to be to me, as a public official. >> what was his reaction? >> he thanked me so much and he

said it means a lot to me and it means a lot to my family. and i wish every rabbi, every priest, every minister would tell their congregation, go out. you don't have to hug a priest, i mean a police officer. but tell them how sympathetic you are. and that has nothing to do with the disagreements we may have with a few of them. because overwhelmingly, we need police and police need the community. >> let me ask eugene about the point the congress is making there basically saying from the standpoint of the police, the closing ranks around each other whether it's in the wake of the garner thing or other incidents and basically contributing to a break down in the relationship with the mayor and maybe some of the members of the public that way. is that a problem for police? the tendency to close rank in times like that and sort of no matter what? >> i think what's unfair about this conversation, it evolved on to the shoulders of front line officers. a lot of these issues are top

level down issues. these are leadership issues and please are directed to do these things. whenever you see them somewhere, it's because they're told to be there. like staten island where they were ordered to do this kind of enforcement. pennies on the dollars of tax cigarette enforcement. i don't think any cop joins the nypd to do that. i would hope that political leaders also spend some time at the top of these conversations. there's been a lot of time spent on the bottom. none of that takes away from individual responsibility, but there really has been a skewing of this conversation in the direction of pointing at patrolmen, basically, in a major organization where there's political leadership issues. >> where do you think this is, one of the things we talk about this breakdown in this relationship. one thing happening in the last week and we don't know if this is the case with these officers. a movement among the police officers in new york to basically sign a declaration that if i am killed in the line of duty, i don't want mayor de blasio attending my funeral.

i have not seen any reporting whether these officers have signed that. you have that movement and officers turning their back on the mayor as he shows up last night and it seems like we could be headed towards a real confrontation here in the next few days. >> we need people to explain what the police job is in the city and i hate to say that, but i think anybody who is in law enforcement feels that there is not an understanding of what the police actually do and i think that goes across the board. so, the police are, again, they're directed to do these things. they do them at risk themselves. they don't have automatic protection. when they use force on people, they could be at any minute criminally charged and even though it doesn't happen, but it doesn't certainly happen on a regular basis, they are exposed on these things. again, they are, people who use coercion and people who are armed and people who have anned aversarial job and they are being brought into communities by people asking for enforcement and lawmakers and elected

officials should explain and the congressman has alluded to this that his office and i'm sure a lot of other elected official office. there is a need for the police. hopefully, again, this conversation will get recalibrated and i think the vast majority of the people in the city are not in an extreme on this conversation. >> let me just say, murder is no solution to the problems that we are discussing. that is off of the table. and i think pat lynch ought to put it off the table because there's no human being at all that could support this type of murder and our comrades whether they're in uniform or out of uniform and turning your back on the mayor, even symbolically is not a way to bring a family together. new york is just too great for that. and we have to sit down and we have to talk. and that way when we're talking about what your job is and what my job is as a public official, we're talking as friends or at least people that respect each

other. and not about some heaven. the only good thing he's done is kill himself so we don't have to go through this whole mess again. it's a terrible thing that happened and most new yorkers, most human beings know this is wrong, it's wrong and wrong and wrong and it deserves more than policemen turning their back on the mayor of the city of new york. >> eugene o'donnell, i want to thank you for joining us. and congressman rangel you'll be back in a few moments to talk about cuba. president obama delivers change on cuba. can congress keep him from going big? the congressman will be back to continue the discussion with us next. (vo) nourished. rescued.

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happened this week. talking about the cuban news here, not just because it's recent but because it's big. with one announcement president obama upending half a century of established u.s. policy. >> what i know deep in my bones is that if you've done the same thing for 50 years and nothing's changed, you should try something different if you want a different outcome. and this gives us an opportunity for a different outcome. >> and it reactions to this were not necessarily predictable. some surprising support from the president for some. >> if the goal was regime change, sure doesn't seem to be working and probably it punishes the people more than the regime because the regime can blame the embargo for hardship and if there's open trade, i think the people will see what it is like all the things we produce under capitalism. i think in the end probably opening up cuba is a good idea.

>> obama's effort to normalize relations with cuba could hit a brick wall in congress. south korea lindsay gram tweeting this week, i will do all in my power to block the use of funds to open an embassy in cuba. normalizing is a bad idea at a bad time. also the question on whether congress will agree to lift the embargo. these comments from speaker john bano don't offer much wiggle room. relations with the castro regime should not be revisited yet alone normalized until the cuban people enjoy freedom and not one second sooner. so, what will it take to totally restore diplomatic relations and how much of that could be blocked by the republican-controlled congress that reconvenes in january. we have former adviser to senator john mccain. republican strategist and democrat from new york charlie rangel. back with us at the table. so, adalfo let me start with you on this question, i know you have yilsh issues with what the

president did this week and what do you want republicans and even menendez in new jersey who is against this. what do you want people who are against this be doing. is there a way to stop it and if so, what is it? >> first thing i would like republicans to do in congress when they assume the majority in the senate and, of course, the largest house majority in 82 years is to hold hearings and bring in the comments of dissidents that have not been heard on the so-called change to cuba. the change is a u.s. change. cuba remains the repressive bloody regime it has for the past 45 years. bring in the voices, steve, of those fighting and suffering in cuba that are dead set against this change in policy. the ladies in white, the leading dissidents, all of them denounced this and the wrong thing to do. the actual mechanics of it, and i think you alluded to it here with senator graham and senator rubio and others that will control the process is to do

everything possible to deny funding for the embassy. we have an intersection there. we have been talking to cubans for years on necessary issues to do that. i think getting the voices of why it's a bad policy and also to talk about not what the president intends to do with guantanamo because cuba will press for the return of guantanamo which is a horrible thing to do and, lastly, the rights of cuban americans whose properties were exprotoriated and they are entitled to compensation as they were in nicaragua and see how they answer those questions as the process proceeds. >> congressman, you were actually in havana this week when this happened. the historic announcement was made and you're on the scene. the argument that he's making about the voices of dissidents. the people who have been brutalize bide the castro regime over the past century. families of victims and their voices maybe not being heard in this. what do you say to this?

>> these are legitimate concerns and used to be a decade ago this was the feeling of a lot of cuban americans and feeled that castro had destroyed their families and their future. fortunately, but people have to be concerned. those who have personal experiences, but this isn't about cuban americans. this is about america. this is about our foreign policy, our economic policy, our relationship with latin america and central america. this is about trade between nations. this is about a fight against terrorism. and, so, i don't dismiss adolf's feeling of what happened to a group of people. but the president has to do and i'm telling you, a lot of people didn't have thecourage to do it. democrats and republicans because this never really was looked at as a compassionate anti-communist issue. it was looked at who is going to

get the college electoral votes. whether you were for the embargo or against the embargo and that was the issue. fortunately, younger cuban americans feel like they would like to visit cuba and like to see more democracy, but, listen, if we can do business with china, if we can do business with vietnam, we got to work our way up. >> what do you say to that? both what the congressman is saying we're already doing business with china and vietnam and so much of the rest of the world is already doing business with cuba. >> two or three things. first of all, to address the congressman's point. this idea of doing business with cuba. credit worthiness. cuba is 178th. one country has a poor record, that is north korea. the idea that we're trading with cuba significantly is just not going to be the case. what's happened here is that the president will now extend credits to cuba and cuba will do what it has done with other

countries and get additional lifeline now that venezuela oil is deninshiiminishidiminishing. if you're concerned about terrorism, we should be concerned that cuba was in the process of exporting arms to north korea when a ship was seaed in the panama canal. a country that is 90 miles away from our shores. we have a monroe doctrine and our interest in the hemisphere and cuba in support of terrorism. it was on the terrorist list and still remains on the terrorist list and supporting revolutionary movements around the region. should have been strengthened, not weakened. >> part of this is that designation of cuba as a sponsor of terrorism, that is being revisited. do you think cuba should be removed from that list? >> of course they should be. at the time that we described how mandela was on the terrorist list until a few years ago. so, it has to be updated. are there people who have

practices that are not democratic? yes. who are going to change these things? clearly, it's not going to be presidents in the united states and it's not going to be the castro brothers. what it is going to be is the american people and the cuban people and i don't know how it happened, but the people in cuba love americans and americans love cubans and no matter what they say, they have -- >> we are out of time on this one, but i have to thank congressman charlie rangel. i'm sorry, we are fresh out of time here. but thank you for being here this morning. the latest developments on the two nypd officers. we'll have more on that next. and the end of an era on capitol hill. ♪ music

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many of us have assumed or maybe we just hoped it would go on forever. lawmakers bunking together like any other room mates eating someone else's cereal, neglecting to make their beds and ignoring a rodent problem in hopes it might just go away. this two-story row house in washington has received a lot of attention over the years. most recently, including from us, when the amazon series alpha house premiered. it's what you're looking at here. the real-life alpha house where democratic members of congress have crashed during the week. senators, congressmen we're talking about here is the kind of place that you better be sure the cleaning woman is a legal immigrant and tip o'neill would call up in the house and what kind of trouble are you guys going to create for me tomorrow? once described the house as mtv's "real world" with power brokers. but now the owner of the real house george miller, well he's

retiring from congress and he has decided to sell the house effective now. which means that congressman miller, senator dick durbin, senator chuck schumer were all forced to move out of the house last week. miller bought the place back in 1977 and started offering beds in 1982 and the house has seen an interesting cast of room mates over the years. leon panetta lived there until president clinton appointed him the director of office and budget and then he was forced to move out because ethic laws prevent a white house official from paying rent to a member of congress. now i'm joined by bill de la hunt and sam gottenson and all of them have lived in the house. the real-life alpha house at various points over the last several decades. congressman, it is your son who is buying this house. >> he just opened a new bar called dennison's and he has a

place on capitol hill. they spend half the year back in basra and they would hang out at the house and we would cook them. senator durbin would interrogate my daughter as to who she was dating. >> they were raised there, basically. >> yeah, absolutely. it was great. >> well, let me bring in former congressman from massachusetts. you were there, i think, most recently. what is life like in a house where, you know, you were there with schumer and with durbin and very close quarters. you guys are in congress all day and doing tv shows and you come back at night. what is it like there after hours? >> it's tough. it's really tough. occasionally we would threaten a rent strike. i was once asked aabout the cleanliness of this particular unit. and my response was, well, we don't have any cockroaches.

because our rats scare the cockroaches away. >> you are saying a rent strike. how was the rent? was it a reasonable rate? >> well, john said it was reasonable. but myself, senator durbin said this is outrageous. $850 for a slump. it was bad. you know, the public thinks that we are indulging in eating at fine restaurants or at embassy receptions. and the stories that came out about the house, i think, really gave the american people a reality check to what it's like. but it was a lot of fun. in fact, i'm really pleased to hear that sam's son is taking the house, the tradition will continue and, sam, tell him i intend to stay there occasionally. >> congressman russo, let me ask you this.

so many names we hear over the years. who was your favorite roommate and who was the worst roommate? >> well, you know, you have to understand, i got there because of a major snow storm in washington, d.c. i couldn't get home that night and george miller said, why don't you bunk with me. my wife and kids have moved back to san francisco and i did and i never left. so, it was originally george and i and then george wanted to see if i could recruit somebody else to help reduce the expenses. so, we had this not very powerful guy, lonely house member from new york named chuck schumer who lived in a dump and we basically said, chuck, for the right price you could come sleep on the couch and that's how chuck got in there and then shortly therefore i was in the recruiting mode and i looked at the bay window and i said, you know, george, if we took the piano out of the bay window, we could put the bed in there and

cut our costs down and who said, who are you going to recruit? i went over leon panetta. we are very budget conscious. >> sam, talk about, you know, senator chuck schumer, dick durbin. two of the most powerful guys in the senate right now. what are they like as room mates? >> it was great, actually, because congressman miller and myself, you know, knew what were going on in the house that day. we could check with our senate colleagues what was happening in the senate anded there be some collaboration. there were some differences. we sometimes would fought as our districts had different interests. but it was actually a good way to live. you were in washington from tuesday night to thursday night and it meant that you had to work all the time. you didn't have to feel guilty of not going home to see your family. and then you ahad somebody to collaborate with. you just didn't go back to a place by yourself. it was a good deal economically. i want to complain to congressman russo, the couch was

very uncomfortable and took me four months to figure out i could call a store and they would deliver a bed and. >> you get what you pay for, i guess. >> one of the funny things about having four men live together, we don't know much about anything how things work and one time schumer, we got home at 10:30 at night and chuck had this wonderful appetite for chocolate chip cookies so he decides he wants to make chocolate chip cookies but none of us could figure out how to light the stove. we called a store in hawaii to ask them how to light this viking stove because the four of us couldn't figure it out. >> i guess that's sort of part of this, right? you're in the close quarters and you get to know people in a way that for better or worse, nobody else knows them. >> well, there is a lot of camaraderie and i think we all look back on it very fondly. but i found it interesting in your opening you referred to the fact that we had to make sure

that the cleaning person was not an illegal immigrant. i'm sure that sam and marty would corroborate this. but i never saw a cleaning person. >> in defense of george, i said, the house was clean and it wasn't quite as bad as my colleague from massachusetts indicated. it wasn't pristine. you know, there weren't white gloves. >> you are saying it was sanitary. >> when i was there, i was a felix under. i made sure the house stayed clean. in fact, if those guys didn't clean the floor at night, about 2:00 in the morning i would get up and turn the vacuum machine on. >> he is telling the truth. i made sure it was clean. it went downhill when you got in there. >> that's, you know, life in the alpha house. the series on amazon right now. these guys lived the real thing for years. as i say, it's so interesting, i think, because people assume

members of congress and washington they're all at the pricy hotel and the penthouse. >> there was a poll, how does a member of congress live. they figured we each had a chauffeur and crystal and, you know, being served. we ate out of the cheapest restaurant in capitol hill. before my son had one on capitol hill and it was completely like a small frat house of four aging frat boys. >> no, here we find out the truth. they're sleeping on couches and calling people in hawaii to bake cookies at midnight. all alums with the real-life alpha house. thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you, my pleasure. up next, the latest on the deadly shooting of the two nypd officers. turn back to the debate of the u.s. policy in cuba.

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dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow. dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine. we are waiting to see and hear more from new york city officials this morning, including mayor bill de blasio

in the wake of yesterday's killing of two nypd officers. as we've been reporting, a lone gunman walked up and shot both officers in the head as they were sitting in a parked patrol car. the mayor and his wife are planning to attend mass a little more than 30 minutes from now at st. patrick's cathedral in new york city. msnbc will be there for all the latest. stay with us.

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actually. this gives you a baseline to show you where the country has been on do you want to normalize relations with cuba and when you're giving all americans that choice, again, this is back earlier this year, but this is a pretty good idea of where the country stood. pretty strong support, 56% said, yeah, we should be normalizing and engaging more and only 35% saying no. when you get to the politics of this, though, it has been a very complicated, tricky issue. not necessarily about what all americans think about cuba policy. it's about what cuban americans and americans living in the state of florida think. florida, we know, such an important state in american politics and the presidential primaries, but really in the general election. you remember the 2000 election came down to a few hundred votes in florida. so, politicians are always going to be very, very sensitive to florida and florida with a large cuban community and that's the important number here politically. let's take a look, though, a few months ago in florida. this was a big surprise a few

months ago. actually more support in florida than you'll find across the rest of the country for normalizing relations or engaging more with cuba. that caught people a little bit by surprise when this came out earlier this year and it suggested maybe the politics of this were changing a little bit more. but, again, this was before the president made his announcement this week. now, the president has come out and done it. now people are digesting the news and people are thinking this is a real thing. what is happening now. we don't have a lot of polling, but one very interesting poll that came out the other day that looked in the state of florida which is heavily centered in the state of florida. you look at cuban americans and their reactions to what the president did this week. overall, 48% saying that they disagree with what the president did here. they did not think that president obama should be trying to move to normalize relations with cuba right now. look a little bit closer there. here's what you see. these are americans, these are cuban americans who are born in cuba. they are ex-pats and have come to the united states and exiles

and many of them have very, very negative experiences and a terrible experience in many cases with the castro regime in cuba. overwhelmingly or by a strong margin, they are against this move. how about cuban americans who are second generation. cuban americans who were born in this country. they weren't born in cuba. they were born and raised in the united states. very different view on this. 64% say yes. 33% say no. a margin of 2-1. that's where you really see the politics of this changing. as the second generation of cuban americans who are born in this country. who are not raised in cuba and don't necessarily have that first-hand experience with the castro regime. they know the united states a little bit more. they have a much more favorable view of this. they are, obviously, growing in numbers. more and more are born every day. sort of the way nature works, right? the more you're moving towards that second generation, the politics of this are changing and you're seeing that reflect in the overall numbers. something that maybe 10, 20, 30 years ago wouldn't have been

seen as politically safe for a politician. now, the president of the united states can look at this and a lot of politicians who are supporting this can look at this and say, you know, we're not necessarily offending all of the cuban american community by doing this. a lot of cuban americans are going to be against this, but a lot of them are going to be for it, too. a lot of cuban americans are for it, changes the politics in florida, changes the politics in florida. it changes the politics of this issue. we'll talk more about the politics of cuba, about that big announcement the president made this week with our panel. that's next. ring ring! ...progresso!

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good evening, president carter today declared parts of florida to be under a state of emergency because of the enormous influx of cuban refugees. and he made $10 million available to help the state handle the human flow. so far, in the recent exodus from cuba, more than 17,000 people have arrived and the authorities say that as many as 3,600 more are arriving every day with no end in sight.

that was nbc "nightly news" back in may of 1980. in april of that year cuban president fidal castro announced all cubans wishing to immigrate great to the u.s. could do so. bob grim. we had been hoping to be united with president graham. we are going to be rejoined by our panel today, though. so what we wanted to talk about with bob graham, former senator bob graham who was going to be on the show today was just what we did there with the big numbers, the changing politics of the issue of cuba. it used to be, as we were saying, it was seen as -- the cuban american vote seems very monolithic. if you wanted the cuban vote, if you wanted to win the state of

florida, you had to be as anti em bargabargo as possible. >> you could go to the freedom tower, give a speech, and you had them in your pocket. but now you see this generational divide. and also place divide, right? in florida versus new jersey, the other mecca of which you had original reporting from yesterday, right? so it's fascinating to watch. the one thing that i would heed, i think, for both parties that are trying to use this for political gain or not, this is such a sensitive issue. this is kind of like saying all of america thinks that all immigrants should be deported. no, no, no. undocumented immigrants, for them it's a super, super personal issue. cuban americans, because of their trajectory and because of how severe and harsh and horrible this regime has been to their parents and grandparents -- we're not talking that much far removed -- you can't just clump them

against the american public that they see rightfully so as not understanding what's going on in cuba. so i would really, really caution anybody from saying, hey, this is a completely popular opinion. no, this is deep. >> it's striking, and rand paul has sort of broken the rules in a number of subjects, but it's striking to see somebody who clearly wants to run for president in 2016, has a pretty big base in the republican party, and he feels politically it's safe right now for him to be out there saying, yeah, normalize, trade, let's do it. rand paul. >> exactly. well, the dynamics are changing within the republican party. one of the senators who visited there recently and we think kind of behind the scenes helped broker this deal was jeff flake from arizona whose politics overlap a fair amount with rand paul. so it's definitely changing. by the way, we've been showing the footage of the cuban lift

from 1980. even though hillary clinton came out in support of what barack obama did, bill clinton has memories of that airlift because he thinks he lost his gubernatorial election in 1980 because a number of the cubans settled in arkansas, and his republican opponent used that against him and he lost and had to make a comeback in 1982. so even the clintons have some long memories of politics -- >> bill clinton's presidency, the whole gonzalez thing happened. >> which may have lost florida to those people. it lost florida for al gore. >> you have to look at this as a generati generational issue on both sides. as that population is getting younger and more people are born, that changes sentiment a little as well, but it's a new

generation of politics who didn't see this coming in realtime. don't forget, barack obama made this promise in 2007 at that youtube debate when a citizen asked a better question than i think a lot of the press had been asking him, would you sit down and have these direct conversations? he said yes, and it ended up being one of the few real flashpoints between clinton and obama in that campaign. in some ways, this is president obama looking at what is he going to do in two years? >> this is something we've been watching. in 2012 -- president obama won the cuban vote on election day, and people were like, no, that's not true. it was a tongue in cheek on election day. so the people who stood in line for six hours to vote voted for the president when he had already relaxed travel restrictions, which, by the way, the same poll shows the majority, whether you're old or young, is in favor of the easing travel restrictions. romney lost almost nine percentage points to what mccain

had won in the previous election. >> if you look back 10, 15 years, even, and you're asking what party do you identify with, i mean, i found polls from the early 2000s where it was like 65-20 republican, and you ask now and it's basically dead even. that's a major change in a short period of time. where is this ultimately going? is this one of those things where once this step is taken, there is no going back? jeb bush was so critical this week. if he gets elected in 2016, do we go back to an embargo? >> i think every person in favor of opening negotiations is going to be extremely vigilant about everything that happens. there is no talk about lifting the embargo right now. there are so many things that could be done that cuba will have a chance to react to. that will determine whether or not this continues or actually gets shut again. i wouldn't be surprised either way. >> i think a republican president, though, may want to

read more concessions out of the castro regime. there are between 50 and 70 american criminals who have been basically given asylum there, including some who killed new jersey cops back in the 1970s. i think republicans will use some of this debate to try and get some of those there, and if that doesn't happen under obama, a republican president may be pushing it. >> i think it's about the republican senate. they will want an opportunity to hold hearings, to examine this, and don't forget the entire debate about guantanamo bay. obama said he would veto a bill to defund moving prisoners out, and now this is a continuing debate. >> thank you at home for joining us today. happy holidays to all of you. coming up next, melissa harris-perry who has more on the

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this is the microsoft cloud. this morning, my question. who had the better question, president obama or president putin? and all that popped in 2014. but first, assassination on the streets of new york city. good morning, i'm dorian warren in for melissa harris-perry. we begin with breaking news overnight. people are mourning the loss of two policemen as they sat in their patrol