two of new york's finest were shot and killed with no warning shot and killed with no warning, no provocation. they were quite simply assassinated. >> his son said to me, you know, why? why? why my dad? why is my dad gone? what did my dad do wrong? and the truth is, his father did nothing wrong. his father did everything right. his father was a beautiful public servant and he protected me and my family and you and your family. and we have to remember that this holiday season and let's show the police officers the support they deserve. new york city and the nation are grieving the loss of two police officers who were shot dead on saturday before the gunman took his own life. today's "daily news" headline

echos the heartbreak reading quote we weep as one. officers wenjian liu and rafael ramos, one a newlywed, the other a father of two were shot at point blank range in their police car in brooklyn, simply because they were members of law enforcement. >> they were two of new york's finest were shot and killed with no warning, no provocation. they were quite simply assassinated. targeted for their uniform and for the responsibility they embraced to keep the people of this city safe. police say the gunman, 28-year-old ismaaiyl brinsley was already on the run after shooting his ex-girlfriend overnight in baltimore. he had a long history of run ins in with the law, 19 arrests in georgia and ohio as well as family disputes and a suicide attempt. police believe instagram

postings hours before the shooting revealed brinsley's plans. a silver gun references to eric garner and michael brown and a hash tag that reads shoot the police. just moments before brinsley ambushed the officers witnesses said he said quote watch what i'm going to do. saturday's shooting is further inflaming the fractured relationship between city police officers and mayor bill de blasio here in new york city. video show officers turning their backs to the nir as he entered the hospital as both officers were pronounced dead. the head of the police union has frequently criticized mayor de blasio for his response for protests against the police. he said the mayor is partly responsible for the officer's deaths and for saying minorities are justified in their mistrust of law enforcement. >> there's blood on many hands tonight. those that incited violence on the street under the guise of

protest that tried to tear down what new york city police officers did every day. we tried to warn, it must not go on, it cannot be tolerated. that blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor. >> in response a spokesman for mayor de blasio said in part quote, it's unfortunate that in a time of great tragedy some would resort to irresponsible overheated rhetoric that anners and divides people. former police commissioner ray kelly is speaking out on the relationship between the police officers and the mayor. >> i think when the mayor makes statements about he had to train his son to be, a son who is biracial to be careful with the police this set off this latest firestorm. the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor. >> talking about the

stop-and-frisk that you think is anti-police. >> yes. a lot of the rhetoric was. at a time when the police had a 70% approval rating. obviously that's not the case now. during the de blasio administration. >> the president released a statement saying there's no justification for what happened calling for unity and joe, i'll turn it over to you. what were your thoughts when the news broke? >> well, you know, mika, sadly this tragedy -- these assassinations were too predictable. you know, we have seen many protesting the deaths of michael brown and eric garner. we've heard them chanting black lives matter. of course they do. and this weekend we heard supporters of the nypd responding to these assassinations with a hash tag cops lives matter. and they, of course, do to all of us. but the tragic consequences of these recent months should remind all sides that in the end words matter the most. and i say that because the cop

killers hatred was fueled by an avalanche of hate speech that was directed at law enforcement officers in general over the past four months. to listen to protesters, editors and left wing talking heads go on and on since the shooting of michael brown, you would be led to believe that white police officers were randomly driving through black neighborhoods searching for young black males to shoot down. and despite my own views that america's criminal justice system is too unfair to young black males and i have said it repeatedly for decades, i was blasted on social media as a racist for calling out the st. louis rams players and united states congressmen for recklessly promoting the phrasephrase, requests hands up don't shoot."

i was worried in real-time using those inflammatory words telling anybody listening to them that michael brown was gunned down by a white cop while his hands were raised in surrender. i was angered at the inflammatory phrase and warned repeating a phrase that the grand jury itself concluded was never used slandered st. louis cops and would make a bad situation worse for police officers around america. and it did. why? because words matter. words matter. and i was worried after the tragic shooting and it was such a tragic shooting in cleveland that the "new york times" putting up a caption that read, "police killed child with toy." again painted police officers as beasts and ignored 911 calls that those cops got from frightened residents saying a suspect was waving a gun around pointing it at park visitors and

quote scaring the held out of them. the looting and rioting in ferguson were so bad that many of us, many of us congratulated new york protesters for remaining mostly peaceful while overlooking ugly words. ugly elements of those marches. those marches in new york showed just how much hatred against police officers has been stirred up over the past four months of constant anti-police propaganda online and newspapers and, yes, on cable news. one clip from those protests says it all. what we want the protesters in new york chant dead cops. when do we want them?

now. other hate-filled words have spread through those same crowds. well, they were chanting nypd-kkk, how many kids have you killed today. how do you spell racists? nypd. more hateful words, more hate speech, more reasons to fear for the lives of all police officers who are the only people standing between you and anarchy. it led me to say this. the nypd's police commissioner last month about what i wanted to have police officers tell us. i wanted to hear them say on our show and i should have called them on our show to say this and i said quote, you don't hear about the fear that i have every night when i go out on my patrol. that i might not get home to my kids. i may not be able to walk my daughter down the aisle when she's married.

i may not be able to see my son graduate from high school. saturday night those fears were realized. and they were realized in part because of the hate-filled speech aimed at cops over the past four months. st. louis's finest deserve better. new york city's finest deserve better. so do police officers all across america. maybe now they will get it. maybe now we'll reset the conversation. and maybe now we'll have an honest discussion about how we balance the right of all americans and the safety of the men and women who are keeping us safe at night. mika. >> well, joe, let's reset the conversation right now along with thomas and me we have mark

halperin and dorian warren. dorian, i want to start with you. in the protests from ferguson to new york, is it fair to say that the story of the cops might have gotten lost? >> yes, but i think if we were to go back to look at the footage and statements, especially from activists, i think not to draw the circle and say everyone was in one group -- >> no. >> but it's clear that this is about practices and policies and policing the police. >> you hear the chants and you hear the hatred on both sides and you hear right now recognize in response to this and that cycle doesn't help at all and perhaps even promulgates the kind of violence we've just seen. it's not just that words matter -- i agree with you. >> policing practices lead then to someone that is, everyone realizes is a murderer. i don't think we can say that those legitimate criticisms -- because then the question is

where is the space for legitimate criticism. >> in a real conversation because policies matter. joe >> i think the question is, though, what is the real conversation? when you have people going around chanting "hands up don't shoot," when you have united states kmoeng and congress women on the floor of the house saying "hands up don't shoot" when you have "new york times" putting up captions police gunning down children with toys. when you have every presumption in mainstream media against law enforcement, you are going to lead to the type of hatred that's poured out into the streets and that we saw saturday night in brooklyn. is that not fair to say mark halperin? >> i agree with what you said, joe. ers fast and furiousle all officer liu and ramos served the city well. the city needs to deal with that. the country needs to deal what has now become an imbalance

between the views of law enforcement and the responsibilities of law enforcement. i think the mayor, mayor de blasio really has a lot on his shoulders now to try to bring the city together because of the act of one crazy guy. the relationship is out of balance. >> mark halperin let's talk about out of balance too as i talk about responsible words. i understand the anger, and the rage going through a lot of police officers on saturday night after being assaulted verbally over the past four months and sometimes physically being assaulted. is it fair, though, to say that the blood is on the hands of mayor de blasio by simply saying by what many we have a criminal justice system in america that are tougher on black males than on my children or mika's children. >> this is complicated stuff.

what we don't need is the police union and the mayor at war. and the war of words on both those sides need to stop now because we just can't afford it. part it has to do with city contracts. part of it has to do with policy disagreements. part has to do with the conduct of both sides. i thought the rhetoric over the weekend from both sides was incredibly irresponsible. >> mika, let me say this really quickly and then we need to get to our guest. but those tragedies were no time to use language like that because we're not going to stop having the conversation on this show or across america about the challenges that young black males face disproportionately in the criminal justice system. that is a reality. as much of a reality as the hatred levelled at police officers. we have to have a balanced fair conversation, and i understand the anger and the rage that the

new york police officers are feeling. that statement directed towards bill de blasio saying he the blood of those officers on their hands out of line. >> yes. >> just totally out of line. >> especially that new york police officers have been amazing throughout this whole thing. joining us now from boston, dan l in inskey. dan, looking at the emotional toll, officer liu was married two months ago. his parents only child. officer ramos was described as a religious husband and father 2005. and his 13 kraerld son wrote a touching tribute on facebook to his father who turned 40 less than two weeks ago and wrote this. this is the worst day of my life. today i had to say good-bye to my father. he was there for me every day of my life. he was the best father i could ask for. it is horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. everyone says they hate cops.

but they are people that they call for help. i will always love you and i will never forget you. rest in peace, dad. i bring that up because that's the impact on family. what is the impact on the department when something like this happens. >> let me just say there are no better sports rivalries than boston and new york and no better policing than boston and nypd policing. when we had tragedies here nypd has been at our side and we've been with them as well. that attack on nypd was an attack on law enforcement felt across our nation. every one of us who put on a badge and raised our hands to protect our citizens sat in that police car and were a subject of that assault. it's something departments feel and officers feel deep within themselves. we had a christmas party and family members of mine are involved in law enforcement and

it was a very sad event saturday night as we were mourning with new york. >> do police officers in general feel under siege because of the events of the past four months? >> absolutely. there's two conversations going on. there's a conversation about how police are doing policing and whether it's the right way or not. there's another conversation going on saying is it worth it? we should do nothing and do it well. fortunately the men and women of law enforcement will go out and do their job. it's hard to be a police officer. 114 officers -- 114 officers killed this year. up 60% of officers involved shooting. s the last year i was chief in boston we had 15. kids used to throw guns when they were running from crime scenes now they are confronting police. you couple that with the aspects of terrorism where new york was

attacked with a terrorist attack. somebody who is on social media and gets inspired by a terrorist overseas to attack officers with a hatchet. >> it reminds me, unfortunately, tragically, of the scenes that we saw and that you read about today about what happened to young americans that we sent off to war during vietnam. and they did what they were asked to do, they left their families, they risked their lives. some of them left parts of themselves on the battlefield, some didn't return. and yet hearing the officers young 13-year-old child talking about how everybody hates cops, reminds me of the mistakes america made back in the 1960s that we've repented for now. we're making the same mistakes today except it's not the

soldiers and marines and sailors we're attacking it's the law enforcement officers that are protect our streets and keeping our children and families safe. >> you're absolutely right. we don't blame soldiers for the wars they have to fight. we don't blame firefighters for fires they put out. but police officers get blamed for crime that's out there. police did not cause under performing schools. police didn't cause crumblings buildings. they are challenged to police the violence that goes hand-in-hand with those neighborhoods. are police perfect? no. they are recruited from the human race. amazing things happen every day. police run to the sound of gunfire when everybody else runs away. this recognize so accurately the conversations where people are chanting in the streets what do we want? we want dead cops, we want them now. we they'd a conversation where the police can educate the public on what we do and how we

do it. we can't shoot guns out of people's hands. that's not the way it happened. we're not super heroes. we have to do things that aren't pretty. using force is never pretty. but resisting police officer's force isn't pretty. the conversation has to be civilized. >> a little background on who this shooter was, born into a brooklyn muslim family, high school dropout, had mental health problems his entire life. 19 different arrests between the states of georgia and ohio. his mom lives in brooklyn. said she hasn't spoken to him in over a month. she was scared of him. he's been not associating with his two sisters -- >> just the kind of person touched off by the anger -- >> when we look at this and dan i want to ask you this person because i think using social media is trying to get glorified in his death reminds me of a

james holmes from aurora. innocent people going out. they are altar gets just like cops you're saying now are targets as we're having a heated conversation about whether excessive force has been used in certain circumstances and under served judicial system on the back end in examining that. so how do we have that conversation properly and respect police at the same time knowing they have a very tough job to do. >> i think we have to educate the community on what we do and why we do it. we have to listen to the communities. you can't police the community without the community's consent. we need to do better training for our police officers in community engagement. we let them down by not having problems at the academy to teach the history of policing. there are young police officers if you go into an academy, they don't know who rodney king is. understanding our challenges and understanding why there's challenges in neighborhoods is

important. police officers deal with crime every day. when you go into these neighborhoods, little kids are shot in play ground, 200 people see it and no one wants to come forward. they don't want to come forward because they are fearful or past experience with the police. if that's what you do every day you can begin an us versus them mentality. we have to continue community policing. we want police officers out of the car wren gaged in the community but as we see police officers are vulnerable. anyone can walk up to them and it takes a second to take out a police officer's life. all right, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you being with us, dan. we really do. mika, thank you. mika arc lot still ahead. it is important, again, that we under line that the conversation has to continue. it has to be a balanced, fair conversation. it has not been bald and fair over the past four months across

social media and mainstream media but we need to continue discussion on community policing. on this criminal justice system. how we make it fair for everybody. cameras on cops. increased police training. all the things that dorian is talking about. that doesn't go away because of this tragedy. it continues. but maybe we can have a more balanced, more reasonable, more responsible conversation because the conversation has been irresponsible and police officers are dead because of it. >> and the media has been covering the conversation, the two sides -- dorian you pointed out a few weeks ago president obama put out four or five policies we need to look at them. everyone touched on them and went back to their corners what they hated and what they thought was wrong between they hated why. joe, point taken. so we'll continue this conversation and reset it. coming up we'll have the former

new york city police commissioner ray kelly to join us here on set. we'll talk about policies with him. plus slapping a new terror label on north korea do anything to stop hackers from wreaking havoc. david sanger from the "new york times" joins us with his new reporting on that. from the ebola outbreak to trouble in ukraine we'll break down the ap's top ten stories of 2014. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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sexual assault. on sunday winston's lawyer posted on twitter part of the decision of the former judge who conducted the hearing which reads quote, in sum, the preponderance of the evidence has not shown that you are responsible for any of the charged violations of the code. given the time frame of an appeal process the decision clears the way for the reigning national champion and heisman trophy winner to stay on the field for the rest of the season. >> that's a big deal. we look at this from the "chicago tribune." mohamed ali remains hospitalized with a mild case of pneumonia. the illness was caught early so the champ should be in treatment for a few days. the 72-year-old who is battling parkin inson's disease is listed in critical condition. >> tampa bay times a dozen

people national public radio jurisdiction after a lightning strike in the stadium parking lot of the tampa bay buccaneers. officials say the lightning struck this suv after sunday's game against the packers. no one was hit directly but witnesses say it was strong enough and close enough to knock some people to the ground. seven people were taken to the hospital. they are all in stable condition. four others were treated on the scene. >> that's scary. florida is the lightning strike capital of the country. >> for a sport that depends on the ice the nhl is warming up to the idea of tackling climate change. it will eliminate its carbon footprint by the end of the season. hockey officials will be conducting an analysis to generate ideas for greater energy efficiency. in the words of the commissioner our sport was born on frozen ponds and to this day relies on winter weather. >> very good. the "daily mail" a firefighter dressed as santa came to the rescue in australia.

the fire crew was busy delivering christmas presents when they jumped into action to save a man from a burning house. santa stayed outside to run hoses since his costume was flammable. the neighborhood kids get two heroes for the price of one. >> look at that. santa shows up to save your home. coming up howard dean and bill kristol join us for the must read opinion pages. don't go away. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ (holiday music is playing)

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♪ joining us for the must read opinion pages former governor of vermont howard dean. and editor of weekly standard bill kristol joins us as well. dorian warren is still with us. i want to read from mike barnacle's peace. any outrage out there for liu and ramos during christmas week many politicians and phoney posers who have labelled all cops as dangerous because of the behavior of a few will pay their respects to two who died in brooklyn, ambushed, never even drawing their service revolvers.

they will do this without realizing the tragic irony in paying respects to the police who rarely ask much more than exactly that. respect for what they are asked to do and what they represent to a society seeking order and peace. bill kristol, inflammatory rhetoric, was it responsible for the death of the two police officers? >> you have to understand the murderer's inner workings of his mind which i don't pretend to. the inflammatory rhetoric is a bad idea. it inflames people and should be denounced. not healthy for a society -- >> you don't think there's any connection? they referred to garner and -- >> right. he said there was no connection but i think on the whole one wants to hold the individual for crimes. the atmosphere and irresponsible statements by a lot of political

leaders targeting the police forces of the nation, policemen in general, mayor de blasio should apologize for what he said. he did stir things up. >> you don't think what he said was more conciliatory. >> i said originally. >> let me interrupt here. look, this is a long history of activity, police activity in minority communities which can't be denied. yeah. is there a lot of overheated rhetoric? of course there's a lot of overheated rhetoric. you have two different groups of people coming from different place. see the same event in a different way. this is a horrible moment, obviously, for these two guys that were killed in cold blood. assailant was clearly crazy. maybe there's a connection and maybe not. overheated rhetoric makes crazy people act out. so you shouldn't say anything bad because somebody who is crazy might do something like this. >> i shouldn't march around chanting death to the cops. >> no question about that.

>> people shouldn't lend their moral authority to such marches. >> i don't see any evidence that people lent moral authority to that stuff. the point i'm trying to make is this. i'm a child of the '60s. i can remember what this was like in the '60s. even despite the horrible events of yesterday or the day before, we are having a much better conversation than we used to have. for white police chief of ferguson after the michael brown death to say one of the problems or maybe it was the mayor, is that we have a police force of 53 people, three of whom are african-american and our population is 70%, they recognize instantly. so we are ahead of the game. everybody feels terrible about all the stuff that's gone on and we should but we're having a better conversation no u years later than before. the blame game doesn't work. we should stop doing that. that goes for thaefd of the police union and the mayor and everyone else. >> joe and then dorian. >> bill kristol i was reminded

again of how young men who went off to vietnam in the 1960 whose did not only what they were asked to do but ordered to do by draft boards. did their jobs. risked their lives. left their families. left their children. left their hometowns and came back and spit upon and america woke up 10, 20 years later and said oh, my god, i can't believe we acted that way. i feel like we're doing the same thing to cops now because of the acts of a few we're denigrating an entire police force that keeps america face. >> that's what in to, mayor de blasio made it seem the new york police force is full of racist. he teaches his son to be wary of cops. crime is down. one of the greatest achievements of the past 20 years is to get

crime down. >> how to be wary around cops and that's a universal story that applies to fathers of black sons. >> he should tell his son that privately if he feels that's appropriate. >> he doesn't have to say it publicly. >> no he does not. designee has to say it publicly because it's true. >> this san important question, though. >> cops routinely are picking -- >> guys, hold on one second. this is an important discussion to have. mika, let's have it right now. just because it's true does the mayor of new york city have to say it? it's one thing for howard dean to say it. he has. it's one thing for me to say it. i have. it's one thing for to you say it. you have. there's a lot of things, howard as governor you knew as true but you couldn't say it. maybe it's not the smart thing for a new york city mayor to say that in press conferences.

that's fair to says right? >> there's no progress unless we confront difficult hard truths. i'm not attacking the police department at all. i was pretty pro law enforcement when i was governor. but this is a really hard issue. and if we don't talk about it it doesn't get better. i think even despite again as i said before the horrible events of the past four months it's better. we can't make it better unless we talk about it. >> bill kristol it's being talked about. does the mayor have to talk about it. >> i don't approve what the mayor said or a lot of other people have said. embraced by al sharpton by the mayor and the president is a mistake. given his past rhetoric and current rhetoric. i'm not say anybody is responsible for what happened on saturday to officer ramos and officer liu.

i'm glad on this show, have been talking about these two officers as human beings. i was struck by first coverage. obviously when these other people were killed and very unfortunately, obviously, mr. garnerer and others, we were interested in who they were. these officers for the first 24 hours, two police officers killed and it took you way into the story to see anything to put their name in. i'm glad we talked about these people. they deserve the tribute as being remembered as human beings, as individuals. >> we worried that we lost actually that side of the story in light of all these conversations about brutality and police being excessive. dorian? >> i think from this point in terms of trying to have the conversation and move it forward, i think people on both side of the badge are grieving and i think actually that grief can serve as a place to start because we've all experienced loss at sometime.

we're all grieving no matter where you stand. that's the place to move the conversation forward to come together as a community, as new yorkers, as a nation to say we can all grieve, we all are -- any death, anyone just death is wrong. anyone just death is wrong. what's the way to move forward in terms of the policy discussion? not to personalize the criticisms that people have legitimately raised and not to let them in, with the crazies out there who did have that chance. that's not the vast majority of people and people of good intention and well meaning people who want a safe community, and who can also support cops. i have law enforcement in my family. i'm sure a lot of people have law enforcement in their families. we respect and love the work of cops, but we also have to move forward. i think the commonplaces are mutual grieving at this moment. >> talking about the policies. howard and bill stay with us if you can. what exactly is a proportional response as the president put it to a bunch of north korean

hackers spilling movie studio sets. david sanger joins us next with more on that. she inspires you.

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try zyrtec-d® to powerfully clear your blocked nose and relieve your other allergy symptoms... so you can breathe easier all day. zyrtec-d®. find it at the pharmacy counter. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 45 past the hour. now the latest on the massive sony data breach which the united states has official lie blapd on north korea. president obama says his administration is reviewing if north korea should be placed back tloints of states sponsoring terrorism but he also used measured language when asked if the hacking should be considered an act of war. >> no, i don't think it was an act of war. i think it was an act of cyber vandalism that was very costly,

very expensive. we take it very seriously. we will respond proportionately as i said. but, you know, we'll be in this environment in this new world where so much is digitalized that both state and nonstate actors are going to have the capacity to disrupt your lives in all sorts of ways. we have to do a much better job of guarding against that. >> before we get to david sanger, joe, what's your gut there, vandalism or terrorism? >> so just to clear this up, vandalism is when you get spray paint and you spray a wall. i think when you terrorize a multinational corporation you chill free speech in america and dictate what movie theaters run and don't run and threaten 9/11 style attacks probably rises above the phrase vandalism. that was very unfortunate. if i'm at sony i'm very

concerned that the president of the united states takes this so lightly. i mean, terrorism maybe? it is terrorism. i think the president can say that. it's cyber terrorism not vandalism. >> what's with the proportion nature response? don't we want disproportion nature response to deter regimes like north korea. the response shouldn't be limited to cyber responses. we have a wide array of military -- >> let's talk about this with our next guest joining us from austin, texas. david sanger. david you have new reporting on this. >> we do, mika. we reported over the weekend that the united states had secretly gone to the chinese to try to get them to cut off north korea's connections to the internet because almost all the lines that run out of north korea that would allow them to communicate with the rest of the world and send malware around

the world runs through china. that's the good news. the bad news out of this, of course, is that back in may the united states indicted five chinese members of the people's liberation army for cyber theft from american companies. so you're in the odd position of having north korea's sole protector in the world be the one way in. now what's made this different and i think this gets right at the debate that joe was picking up on before. there have been a lot of cyber attacks, home depot, target and so forth. this is the first one that was a state sponsored destructive attack on american soil, which is to say it wiped son chy's ha sacrifices and the reason the president is responding at all and the reason this is a national security issue and the

others weren't you're on a slippery slope of destruction of powewer grids, phone networks a harder to call it vandalism. >> the hollywood reporter is reporting that judy smith, the real life inspiration for carey washington's character on "scandal" has been hired for crisis management at sony. we can't begin to fathom. having said that for more on your reportin david sanger what was china's response and also what's been north korea's response so far? >> well, so far the chinese have been dead silent, at least in public. and that's interesting because hat the president was doing in trying to go to the chinese was begin to establish some rules of the road, some norms here about what's acceptable behavior and what's not because if you don't have that people miscalculate. of course that's been completely

missing in cyber. we know in the world of making things blow up what those rules are. you don't know that in cyber. now, to the question of what the north koreans have said, they have reacted extraordinarily badly to the united states naming north korea as the bad guy here. and it is fairly remarkable that the president did this on friday, couple of days after we reported that the united states had concluded it was north korea, because almost never does the u.s. come out and attribute an attack to a specific country and in this case say the leaders did it. >> david sanger, thank you so much. we'll be reading your reporting in today's "new york times." also you have a piece on the mumbai attacks, updating on that. up next, all the nfl action you need in just one minute. red zone action next on "morning joe." you park your car.

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sliding. got outside. and touchdown! >> talk about scrambling, trying avoid. pass is complete. and the panthers retake the lead! >> pumps again. dribbled. fumbles. pickeded up by leonard. he's going to go. and he makes it. on his way. touchdown panthers! >> he brings it down. no. touchdown! >> second goal. into the end zone. touchdown patriots! >> landing the long ball to beckham and that's all she wrote for a touchdown! all right. coming up at the top of the hour, new york city hall is at a crossroads with members of the police force literally turning their backs on the mayor.

former police commissioner ray kelly joins us for a very important discussion on safety, civil liberties community relations in new york and across america. push your enterprise and you can move the world. ♪ but to get from the old way to the new, you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how

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♪ it goes too far to blame the mayor for the murder or to ask for the mayor's resignation. i feel bad for the mayor. i think that the mayor must be heartbroken over the loss of this police officer. i can't believe this is what he

wanted. i think what -- i don't think he's a bad man in any way. i think he's a man that pursues the wrong policies. this mayor is pursuing the wrong policies. he should change those policies. he should speak to his police officers. he should embrace them. >> that's the debate. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour here along with joe and me. new york city and the nation grieving the loss of two police officers who were shot dead on saturday before the gunman took his own life. today's "daily news," the headline echos the heartbreak reading quote, we weep as one. officers wenjian liu and rafael ramos, one a newlywed the other a father of two were shot at point blank range in their police car in brooklyn simply because they were members of law enforcement. >> they are two of new york's finest were shot and killed with no warning, no provocation.

they were quite simply assassinated. targeted for the uniform and for the responsibility they embraced to keep the people of this city safe. >> police say the gunman, 28-year-old ismaaiyl brinsley was already on the run after shooting his ex-girlfriend overnight in baltimore. he had a long history of run ins with the law. 19 arrests in georgia and ohio as well as family disputes and a suicide attempt. police believe instagram postings just hours before the shooting revealed brinsley's man silver gun references to eric garner and michael brown and a hash tag that reads shoot the police. moments before brinsley ambushed the officers witnesses say he said quote watch what i'm going to do. saturday's shooting is inflaming the fractured relationship between city police officers and mayor bill de blasio. video shows officers turning their backs to the mayor as he

entered the hospital after both officers were pronounced dead. the head of the police union has frequently criticized mayor de blasio for his response to the protests against police. the president of the pba said the mayor is partly responsible for the officers's death and for saying minorities are justified in their distrust of law enforcement. >> there's blood on many hands tonight. those that incited violence on the street under the guise of protest that tried to tear down what new york city police officers did every day. we tried to warn, it must not go on, it cannot be tolerated. that blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor. >> in response, a spokesman for mayor de blasio says in part, quote, it's unfortunate that in a time of great tragedy some would resort to irresponsible,

overheated rhetoric that angers and divides people. and former police commissioner ray kelly is also speaking out on the relationship between police officers and the mayor. >> i think when the mayor makes statements about he had to train his son to be, a son who the biracial to be careful when dealing with the police, i think that set off this latest firestorm and quite frankly the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor. >> talking about stop-and-frisk, is that what you think was anti-police? >> i think, yes, a lot of the rhetoric was. at a time when the police had a 70% approval rating. obviously that's not the case now. during the de blasio administration. >> joe, ray kelly will join us in about ten minutes. >> he certainly will. mika, in the '60s we sent young americans off to war many times against their will because of the draft and we made them fight

vietnam. they left their moms, dads, wives, children and risked their lives every day on the battlefield. and when they finally returned home to america many were spit upon, called baby killers and murderers. it took us a few decades as a country to atone for those sins against our warriors. we since learned to separate the soldier from the war he's being asked to fight. but reading the letter of 13-year-old jaden ramos who lost his father saturday night, jaden wrote, everyone says they hate cops but they are the people they call for help. you know, that sad tragic note is a reminder of just how embattled the men and women who protect us feel every day. after four months of constant abuse online, on cable news and newspapers, if entire police force in america is being

indicted because of some tragic isolated incidents. we should remember that words matter. you know, reports are that the cop killers hatred was actually fueled by an avalanche of haste speech directed at law enforcement officers in general. to listen to protesters, editors and left wing talking heads since the shootings of michael brown you would actually be led to believe that white officers randomly drive through neighborhoods in search of black males to shoot down. hands up don't shoot were inflammatory words. they charged that michael brown was gunned down by a white cop while his hands were raised high in surrender. it didn't seem to matter to protesters or to politicians that a grand jury ruled that those words were never used. and the looting and the rioting in ferguson were so ugly, so bad that many of us rushed to congratulate new york protesters for remaining mostly peaceful. but there were ugly elements of

those marches that showed just how much hatred was being levelled against police officers. and how much has been stirred up over the past four months of constant anti-police propagation online and in newspapers and cable news. one clip from those new york protests that so many were saluting says it all. what do we want? dead cops the chanters go. when do we want them? now. other hate-filled words that spread through the crowds in new york were chanted included nypd-kkk, how many kids have you killed today? and how do you spell racist? nypd. these weren't limited chants. they were chants heard across the city. it was reported by "new york" magazine.

more hateful word. more hate speech from the left. more reasons to fear for the lives of all police officers who really are, mika, the only people standing between america and anarchy and it led me to say this to nypd's commissioner last month. a real mistake that i made this week is not getting a cop in to tell his side of the story to say, yes, you hear about the shootings, you don't hear about the fear that i have every night when i go out on my patrol that i may not get home to my three kids. i may not be able to walk my daughter down the aisle when she's married. i may not be able to see my son graduate from high school. >> sadly, saturday night those fears were realized for two families. and they were realized in part because of the hate-filled rhetoric aimed at cops over the

past four months that led a 13-year-old believing that all people hate cops. no jaden, we don't. most new yorkers and most americans love and respect police officers and understand like those young men and women that we sent off to vietnam so many years ago they are only doing their job and most of them believe they are doing it to protect all of us. new york's finest deserve better. so do police officers in st. louis and across america. maybe now they will get it. maybe now we'll have a real conversation. maybe now we'll have a balanced conversation. and maybe now we will have to relearn again the tragic lessons of vietnam and apply them to the men and women who patrol our streets today. mika? >> well, cops do deserve better. they deserve better training, they deserve better policies to

follow and they deserve as you pointed out, joe, an understanding of what is it they do every day for us and that's something, i think, maybe even bill kristol and i can get together on this. i think over the past few months we've seen over militarized police departments, protesters in ferguson standing up against cops and tanks and these stories that are very real but, of course, totally overshadowing the fact that there are cops that go out there and do their job every day and they do an incredible job. cops like that kid's dad who will never see him again. >> i'm on the side of the cops. whether it's a policy question, already they are overmilitarized -- >> i'm talking about the images. >> those images had no effect on anything. you think officer ramos and officer liu were images of cops in humvees -- >> no, bill, what i'm saying is that i think the images and the coverage of the protests, i think we actually didn't do

enough credit to the other side of the story, the story of the cops. >> i agree. >> who made them look like beasts driving around in tanks. >> i totally agree with that. >> that's why i thought we could come together. you're so ready to fight. >> no, i'm not. >> i'm ready to defend the police. >> i don't like the moral equivalence. there's problems on both sides. we're in agreement. >> i have a question about this. why did this guy have a gun? right? >> there you go. >> what are we going to do about that. >> new york city has extremely strict gun controls. >> i just asked the question. i don't have a solution. why did this guy have a gun. look, this guy of was mentally ill. crazy, violent. why does a guy like that have a gun. >> why is he not in jail? we talk about overmilitarization to maybe that guy shouldn't have been released from jail when

he's been arrested 19 times. >> when image matters that raises the question about gun culture in this country and culture of violence in this country. if you say words and images matter. >> 11 minutes to get to the case -- >> let's talk to a cop former cop. dorian warren, thanks very much. your web show is starting thursday 11:00 a.m. on shift by msnbc, bill kristol, howard dean thank you as well. still ahead the new movie "american sniper" highlights the challenges the military face here at home and overseas. we'll talk about a sniper and as well as leading members of the house and senate on heavy burdens put on our service members. but first former police commissioner ray kelly joins the discussion. stay with us.

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. let's bring in now the former new york city police commissioner and president of risk management services of curbman and wakefield, ray kelly. mr. commissioner thanks for being with us. you have some pretty tough words directed at mayor de blasio. do you agree with the police union that the blood of the hands of these officers are on him and city hall? >> no, no, that's way over the top but i understand the emotions that generated that type of statement. you know, this is a police department that i think has transformed the city but we haven't seen anything like this, a cold-blooded killing of a police officer in uniform in a car for 25 years at least. when i was a police officer many years ago this was, unfortunately, not that rare an occurrence. but certainly this has had a very traumatic gut wrenching

effect on the department. >> mr. commissioner, what do you think bill de blasio has done wrong? what do you think he could have done better? what do you think he needs to do in the future? >> i think my basic issue with mayor de blasio is false narrative he used in 2013 during his campaign. his position was that there was this schism, this huge gulf between the police and the minority communities of new york city. this is at a time when the police were polling 70% approval rating. even higher than that. as a matter of fact, on election day it was 65% approval rating even after his campaign. and, you know, that sort of continues today and obviously now after garner and after michael brown, there are significant issues but i think the narrative last year was not correct and to sort of set a

tone for the administration coming in. >> would you agree that, or would you disagree that there was any tension between police and the community -- >> there's always going be tension between police and the community because of what they do, what society asks police to do. >> let's start the conversation from there. instead of spiraling out into a debate over stop-and-frisk why don't i ask you given your experience having had an impact in reducing crime in the city, what areas do you think could be improved in terms of easing tensions between police in the community. let's assume we can still work on that. >> well, i always think the communication is the key, i think also having a department that reflects the city that it serves is very important. the nypd now there are police officers born in 106 countries. the police officer rank is majority minority.

you don't see that in too many police departments anywhere. a lot of efforts have been made to improve relations with the community. it's never going to be perfect as i say because of what society has police officers to do. >> what do you think of the policies that president obama has put on the table. can they help? >> the -- >> cameras on cops. >> i think that they potentially can help. what i've said i think we have to go forward cautiously. i don't want it to have cops not do things that they should do but i think you have to test it. i agree with that. >> going back to one of the questions, what should the mayor and your successor current commissioner do today and this week specifically. >> i think they need intermedia intermediary. we need the mayor, whoever the mayor is the police, rank-and-file come together, certainly more so than many are now and perhaps an intermediary,

religious figure or someone like that that can bring them together. a little face saving here on both sides. we need communication. we need to sit down and talk about some of the issues and then go forward. absolutely essential in my mind. this is a complex fragile city and a lot has been done to transform the city. but it can change. it can change quickly. we need them roughly on the same page. >> joe? >> mr. commissioner, how extraordinary is it that cops turn their backs on the mayor when he came in saturday night to actually offer his condo lens about the two slain officers? >> well, i haven't seen it before but i'd say this is highly charged situation. we haven't seen anything like this in many, many years. and, you know, the vast majority of police officers have been in

the last 10, 15 years. 25 years ago we saw the assassination, in the '70s we saw teams of police officers gunned down by black liberation army. this is a gut wrenching experience for the rank-and-file. >> what are the challenges, though, for new york city. as you said an extraordinary complex city that's right now in large part because of you and many of your predecessors and because of a lot of the work of bill bratton as well, how difficult does it make policing in new york city that you got the mayor and the police officers at war? >> well, it does make it difficult and that's why i say i think efforts have to be made either by third parties or the parties themselves to make an effort to come together. you know, it's now time to go forward. they've made their statement. let's try to get together and

work collaboratively to police this very demanding challenging city. >> the impact on the department, when they lose one of their oern own, in this case two in their own cop car, we're hearing from family members, reading a heartwrenching facebook post from the son. what about to the families of police officers? >> well, the police department is a family. >> morale. >> yeah. but the police department is a family, probably closer knit than any organization than i can think of. and it sort of isolating in a way. you know, your friends become police officers and you kind of all in one circle. >> how else could you relate to, really >> what happens is they really feel it. they feel it as if you lost someone, a member of your

family. and the families feel that as well. >> so if you were still there what would you say to the police force? >> well, i think what the commissioner is saying now do your job. be careful. you know there's a heightened risk out there. we know. we see the threats that's on social media. we know they are coming in in a lot of different ways. they have to be alert. they have to do their job and they will do their job. i've never seen police officers shirk from their duty. >> if you're a member of the military you disagree with the commander-in-chief you still owe them respect and still carry out the orders. the members of the new york city police department have that same responsibility to the mayor as their commander-in-chief in effect? >> i would say so. i think the union is a little different, obviously. they are representing police officers. but the rank-and-file officers, i think, certainly have a duty. >> the ones who turned their back on the mayor should they be

fired? if someone in the military turning their back on the commander-in-chief walking in the room they would be disciplined. >> something untoward. something i would prefer not have happened. there's nothing that would allow that to result in discipline. is it bad form? yes. does it rise to a disciplinary issue, i don't think so. >> ray kelly, thank you for coming in. >> thank you. >> coming up we'll hear from bradley cooper about his gripping new war barack obama and have you seen it? it's incredible. the important questions the film is raising about our military veterans. stay with us. ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid.

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♪ he was the most lethal sniper in navy history before he was killed at a shooting range and now chris kyle's story is coming to the big strength in the new movie "american sniper." louis bergdorf spoke to the film star and the director, clint eastwood. >> watching the cowboy. >> do you think he's reporting troop movement. you have a green light. your call. >> maybe he's just calling his

old lady. >> war is a hell of a thing. he even talked about not knowing until you're in the situation. i just followed his lead. i had access to so much source material and then it was just about buckling down and getting to a place where i believed i was him and that happened to demand that i, you know, gain all that weight and learn how to act like i was from odessa, texas. >> all these guys know your name and feel invincible with you up there. >> there's two stories going almost simultaneously. because of the use of satellite phones he could talk to his wife while she's at the market and he's in a combat situation. so it's a lot different than the war was in the old days. >> okay. i need you to be human again. i need you here. >> i have a huge, huge new found respect for the people left behind approximately while we should be grateful to people in

the military giving their service the people who are left behind also sacrificing an enormous amount. these guys have huge hearts. they are not war mongers. they don't love to fight. they love this country and willing to fight if asked and in doing that there's always another battle at home. >> she has a russian grenade. >> see the woman and the kid. >> can you confirm? >> negative. your call. >> not just the soldier going at war the family, the toll it takes and i have a tremendous amount of empathy for what they are going through and hopefully that will translate into that same kind of emotion or understanding for the viewer. maybe next time a vet walks past you in an airport you won't walk past maybe you help him out. mow their lawn or help with their groceries try to do something to ease the burden. >> what can to be done?

what needs to be done combat the troubles facing our veterans? leaders from capitol hill, veterans groups and former service members all join us straight ahead.

♪ welcome back to "morning joe." we want to continue our discussion of the complex issues raised by the new movie "american sniper." with us on set founder and ceo of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america paul rykoff. the movie nailed. i. former congressman of pennsylvania patrick murphy. from richmond, virginia, former marine snirp retired sergeant juan ospina. and a member of the armed services committee senator joe donnelly and pensacola, florida,

chairman of the veterans affairs committee and member of the armed services committee, congressman jeff miller. gentlemen thanks to you all for joining us to talk about this wide ranging set of issues pertaining to our veterans and active duty members. patrick, ptsd. we haven't even begun to crack the code on what cube lost generation if we're not careful. >> the signature injury of the iraq and afghanistan wars. we both served in iraq. this is the signature injury and we need to make sure we're taking care of these veterans. 22 veterans commit suicide every day. juan you retired a month ago. you have done three deployments. you have a wife and 13-year-old child. what was it like training to become a marine sniper and how about the transition back into the civilian suit. what has that transition been like >> leading up to becoming a

sniper is difficult. there's a lot of process of being screened to become a sniper. once you get accepted to become, go into a platoon you have to go through sniper school. sniper school is not unheard of to have an attrition rate of over 60%. mentally, physically and really spiritually very demanding. many times you'll be in school, being able to conduct certain things physically but mentally your mind is racing hoping that the rest of your body will catch up. once you complete sniper school you go through, you know, a bunch of other training, but eventually -- it's a really long process. >> yeah. >> and challenging. even the loss of words at this point. you even see it depicted in the movie which i don't want to trivialize anything but you gets moments u-realize it's

unspeakable. >> is that one of the bigger worries when you let hollywood take over a film like chris kyle and bring attention to vets. does that worry you >> it definitely worries us. they got it wrong so many times. these guys got it right. we've done screenings for members and we support this film. it's really become the defining film of the iraq war so far. it's gut wrenching. it's heroic. it's painful. it's powerful. we hope guys who go out to see it they will continue the conversation. chris kyle was an american hero. his story is the story of so many veterans and his wife. that's the other side of this story. >> what an incredible feat to nail it. those people who endured it, who are living it, still living it, will live the rest of their lives suffering from ptsd, to see something affirms that somebody gets it. >> we need hollywood to bridge that gap.

>> it has to be about stories. chris kyle embodies our generation in so many ways. the story afterwards. we were at the premier of this at new york and same day that tom coburn blocked the clay hunt veteran suicide bill. it under scores how far we still have to going washington. >> mark halperin on that note >> senator you talk about your legislative issue to deal with the issue of suicide? >> yes. what we've done in the military suicide bill we provide a mental assessment every year, tremendous privacy protection. there's no stigma involved. finally best practice, trying to push it down as far as we can to the platoon commanders and such who are in every daikon tact with the soldiers. we lost 132 young men and women combat in 2013. and we lost 475 to suicide. almost four times as many. our goal is to get it to zero

>> you're looking at 22 a day. >> 1% of america serving in these wars. senator donnelly, tell us your motivation behind this joseph sexton law that you got passed. >> our young man, james sexton from farmland, indiana had done a duty of tour in iraq. was in the middle of a tour in afghanistan. had to make the same kind of choices chris kyle had to made at the age of 21. came home and took his life. his dad called me and said hey joe, look, we have tremendous pain in our family. our hearts are broken. but if we can make jake's sacrifice into something good let's do this together. >> all right. i want to go jeff miller now because you have another angle to this which is the way our veterans are treated especially at the va. on friday we had a piece talking about veterans being infected by

a certain procedure at a certain facility in virginia. what's being done in light of that. also overall how is the va doing as it tries to recover? >> the va has got a long way to go before they get back to where they need be in servicing our veterans and giving them the benefits they earned. secretary mcdonnell and sloan gibson are working every day and night to make sure that this agency is turned around. what was reported on your network just the other day was a couple of veterans who have been turned down in both lawsuits and disability claims for something that they claim that they got at the va. even the va said they could have gotten it there. we're looking into see what exactly is going on with the way va treats veterans especially those that they say they may have infected.

>> thomas, you have some perspective. >> paul tweeted this the other day, if congress committed suicide at the same rate as vets there would be no one left after 25 days. so when mika brings thunder lost generation perspective it really is that critical that when we think about it. if it did hit home like hat for congress we wouldn't have stalled things taking place with them taking it so seriously. >> profound disconnect. i don't think we're a lost generation yet. we're not even close. we're not a charity we're an investment. now is the time to make that investment. philanthropy hasn't responded. congress hasn't responded. holiday time is especially important. we see 12 new cases a day. we need help, we need donations. all the other nonprochts need donations. they bridge the dap especially at holiday time. >> when it comes to recruitment are we providing those young men and women april bait and switch?

are we offering things on the upfront that we're not providing on the back end. >> juan from richmond, virginia who just left the marine corps. months and months of training to become a marine sniper and then when you transition out it's a couple of days. used to be zero. now it's at least a week. >> let me ask juan, when you transition out do you feel like you get the support you need from the community given what's going on not only with your experience but inside your head? trying to make sense of it all? >> i believe we get the proper amount of support. mainly the biggest amount of support i get is from the former service members that i stay in collaboration with. a lot of former recon snipers that we get together and speak on a daily basis. that's the biggest message i want to get out you have to continue to talk to your service

members that you served with that the longer you talk to them the more support you'll get because a lot of people don't feel comfortable going to a support group or, you know, talking to people that haven't experienced the same thing you have experienced. so talking to those guys that served with you and also experienced the same things is a great benefit. >> you have the recon sniper foundation that is yours, correct, juan? >> it's not mine. it's a foundation -- it's an organization that i'm promoting. and hopefully, you know, everyone here can go ahead and hopefully get on the webpage and take a look and maybe donate a couple of bucks. >> while we're at it paul rykoff it's iavi.org. >> my dad still goes to his vietnam reunions. he only feels comfortable

talking to them about this stuff. but there's a big bond. >> whether online or on the ground. >> big conversation we tried to put in eight minutes. not enough. that's why you have a show. >> 1:00. >> paul rykoff and the others thank you. "american sniper" will be released christmas day in select theaters and every where on january 16th. it's amazing. i had a chance to see it. still ahead threat from far from the traditional battlefield. how hackers are redefining national security for the 21st century. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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♪ hello. i'm dr. evil. [ laughter ] i preempted this program because i'm furious that north korea and sony pictures have both given evil organizations a bad name. [ laughter ] i mean what the "f" people. it's so pathetic to see you two fight over a silly comedy. it's like watching two bald men

fight over a comb. who cares. [ laughter ] sony, north korea, it's time to get a trapper keeper and some loose leaf because i'm about to take to you school. [ laughter ] let's start with you, north korea. you're one of the most evil countries in the world. and your act of war is to kill a movie? it's easy to kill a movie. just move it to january. [ laughter ] come on, sony, you thought it was a joke to have james franco assassinate kim jong-un? the man single-handedly almost killed the oscars. [ laughter ] think. think. dr. evil making a cameo there on "saturday night live." united states officially blaming neurologic for the massive sony data breach. president obama saying his administration is reviewing if north korea should be placed back on the list of states sponsoring terrorism but also used measured language when asked if the hacking should be considered an act of war.

take a listen. >> no, i don't think it was an act of war. i think it was an act of cyber vandalism that was very costly, very expensive. we take it very seriously. we'll respond proportionately as i said. we'll be in this environment in this new world where so much is digitalized that both state and nonstate actors will have the capacity to disrupt our lives in all sorts of ways. we have to do a much better job of guarding against that. >> the "new york times" reports the u.s. is now asking china to help stop north korea's ability to launch cyber attacks. while north korea still denies involvement in the hacking it says the u.s. government had direct involvement with the making of the film "the interview" and threatened to blow up the white house and pentagon if there's any confrontation. meanwhile the high-profile attorney hired by sony says the company will release the film "the interview." >> you can't release a movie

unless you have distribution channel. the theaters were subject to threats of physical violence against the theaters and against their customers. andcustomers. quite understandably, a large number of them decided not to show the picture when it was scheduled. sony only delayed this. sony has been fighting to get this picture distributed. it will be distributed. how it's going to be distributed, don't think anybody knows quite yet. >> the theater industry execs tell "variety" they're outraged sony is trying to make the theater owners the scapegoat for pulling this film. joining us is miller newton. it's great to have you here. so president obama in his statement called it cyber vandalism. when it comes to big data, this is a new normal. a lot of companies feel very

vulnerable. what assurances does a company like yours try to provide companies on the back end like sony now of being safe from something like this? >> can you provide ultimate insurance? >> absolutely you can. let's look historically at where corporate investment has been. it's been all about the networks and systems and keeping the cyber criminals or nation state hackers out. >> could this have been prevented? >> absolutely, it can be. the network security doesn't protect what's most valuable in a company which is the data. so the only way to solve this problem is to armor the data. which then means you can render it neutral or detonate it if it gets into the wrong hands. >> do you think sony could have prevented this? >> with data encryption, smart inkrinencryptio encryption, they absolutely could have prevented this from happening. >> how likely do you think it

would have been for north korea to have an inside person, either current or former, sony employee helping them? >> the insider threat issue is -- is absolutely very dangerous. because they have access to all of this information. >> in this case, do you think it's more likely than not there was an inside person? >> it feels to me because of the breadth of information breached it's highly likely there could have been an insider involved in this. >> if not, how easy -- how does something like this happen? as easy as an employee opening an e-mail with malware in it? >> there's two things. if an employee has access to all the systems, you don't need malware. they simply have access. >> as the insider. >> they've got the key, they can get in these systems. they don't have to be computer literate. they don't have to be a hacker. they just -- they have access.

they can share that password or key to a cyber crime or a nation state and give them access. >> all right. so on the other hand, if it's not an insider and this is an employee and it's a hacker trying to gain access, what are the things that companies need to be looking out for? how do they protect themselves from this? >> the first things companies need to do is just realize that regardless protecting the perimeter, that the criminals are going to get in and penetrate these systems, number one. end to end encryption using strong authentication and key management will prevent the hackers from accessing the information once they're on the system. >> they're going to get in but it's about the the withdrawal. it's about the withdrawal of the information where you, as sony, or somebody else, can mess that up, correct? >> period. if that information is in the

hands of north korea or any other cyber criminal, you can just terminate the key and render the information useless and that's the answer. >> all right. what about this concern there might be a black market exchange for this data? how real is that? >> so if you look at the other breaches, and sony is not like the other breaches, there definitely exists a black market for the credit card information that was stolen. you name it. home depot, target, most recently staples. so there is a black market for credit card information. it's definitely within the realm that there's a black market for stolen movie scripts. right. and movies. >> i know it's momvie scripts ad sony e-mails. i think it's much worse. i think we underestimated what happened to this country. would you call this terrorism? >> without question. this is 100%. so much more than vandalism. >> an entire organization could be crippled if this continues.

>> look, i believe that this particular breach could bring down a major u.s. company. which is significant. >> the other big thing -- the american way of life when it comes to the simplicity of families that go to a movie on christmas day. so theater owners decide not to show this film because other parents could be taking their kids to see annie in the theater next door. so those that are fonot even gog to see the movie "the interview" don't want to show up at a theater showcasing this film because of the threats that have been made against theater owners. so the collective tissue here seems to be bigger than this data. >> there's a big issue now about bowing to terrorism. i believe that it was precedent setting in a negative way. but sitting in michael lynton's shoes. the theaters pulled the release of the movie. there were violent threats

against the theaters. sitting in his shoes, protecting the safety of the american public was absolutely the right decision. >> miller newton, thank you so much for coming in today. still ahead on "morning joe," two nypd officers murdered in cold blood. the shooter takes his own life but leaves behind a wealth of clues for his cop killing rampage via social media. and new york city's cops turn their backs on the mayor literally. the relationship between bill de blasio and the nypd deteriorates. plus, obamacare tracks the top ten, as does the fight other immigration, but neither tops the ap's list of the year's biggest stories. we'll tell you which one does. stay with us. ♪

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two of new york's finest were shot and killed with no warning. no provocation. they were, quite simply, assassinated. >> -- son said to me, you know, why, why, why my dad, why is my dad gone, what did my dad do wrong. and the truth is, his father did nothing wrong, his father did everything right, his father was a beautiful public servant and he protected me and my family

and you and your family. and we have to remember that this holiday season and let's show the police officers the support they deserve. >> grieving the loss of two police officers shot dead on saturday before the gunman took his own life. today's daily news headline echoes the heart break, reading, quote, we weep as one. officers wenjian liu and rafael ramos, one a newlywed, the other, the father of two, shot at point blank range in their police car in brooklyn simply because they were members of law enforcement. >> today, two of new york's finest were shot and killed with no warning, no provocation. they were, quite simply, assassinated, targeted for their uniform and for the responsibility they embraced, to keep the people of this city safe. >> police say the gunman,

28-year-old ismaaiyl brinsley, was already on the run after shooting his ex-girlfriend overnight in baltimore. he had a long history of run-ins with the law. 19 arrests in georgia and ohio, as well as family disputes and a suicide attempt. police believe instagram postings just hours before the shooting revealed brinsley's plans. a silver gun. references to eric garner and michael brown. and the hash tag that reads "shoot the police." just moments before brinsley ambushed the officers, witnesses say he said, quote, watch what i'm going to do. saturday's shooting is even further inflaming the fractured relationship between city police officers and mayor bill de blasio here in new york city. video shows officers turning their backs to the mayor as he entered the hospital as both officers were pronounced dead. the head of the police union has frequently criticized mayor de blasio for his response to protests against police. the president of the pba says

the mayor is at least partly responsible for the officer's death and for saying minorities are justified in their mistrust of law enforcement. >> there's blood on many hands tonight. those that incited violence on the streets under the guise of protests that tried to tear down what new york city police officers did every day. we tried to warn it must not go on, it cannot be tolerated. that blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall, in the office of mayor. >> a spokesman for the mayor says in part, quote, it's unfortunate that in a time of great tragedy, so would resort to irresponsible, overheated rhetoric that angers and divides people. former police commissioner ray kelly is also speaking out on the relationship between police officers and the mayor. >> i think when the mayor made

statements about that he had to train his son to be -- his son who is biracial, to be careful when dealing with the police, i think that set off this latest firestorm. quite frankly, the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor. >> -- stop and frisk, is that what you think is anti-police? >> yes, a lot of rhetoric was, at a time when police had a 70% approval rating. obviously that's not the case now. they blamed the de blasio administration. >> the president released a statement saying there is no justification for what happened, calling for unity. joe, i'm going to turn it other over to you. what were your thoughts? >> sadly, these assassinations were too predictable. we've seen many protesting the deaths of michael brown and eric garner. we've heard them chanting black lives matter. being they do.

this weekend, we heard supporters of the nypd responding to these asass i t t nations with the hash tag cop lives matter. in the end, words matter the most. the cop killers hatred was fueled by an avalanche of hate speech. that was directed at law enforcement officers in general over the past four months. to listen to protesters, editors and left wing talking heads go on and on since the shooting of michael brown, you would be led to believe that white police officers were randomly driving through black neighborhoods searching for young black males to shoot down. and despite my own views that america's criminal justice system is too unfair to young black males, and i have said it

repeatedly for decades. i was blasted on social media as a racist for calling out the st. louis rams players. and united states congressmen. for recklessly proet moting the phrase "hands up, don't shoot. "i was worried in real time for good reason that using those inflammatory words told anybody listening to them that michael brown was gunned down by a white cop while his hands were raised in surrender. i was angered at the inflammatory phrase and warned that using a phrase that the grand jury itself reported was never used would make the situation worse for cops across america, and it did. why? because words matter. words matter. i was worried after the tragic shooting. it was such a tragic shooting in cleveland. that "the new york times" putting up a caption that read

"police kill child with toy." again painted police officers as beasts. and it also conveniently ignored 911 calls that those cops got fromened residents saying a suspect was waving a gun around, pointing it, and, quote, scaring the hell out of them. words matter. the looting and the rioting in ferguson were so bad that many of us, many of us congratulated new york protesters for remaining mostly peaceful while overlooking ugly words. ugly elements of those marches, those marches in new york, show just how much hatred against police officers has been stirred up over the past four months of constant anti-police propaganda online and newspapers and, yes, on cable news. one clip from those protests says it all.

>> what do we want? dead cops. when do we want it? now. what do we want? dead cops. >> "what do we want"? the protesters in new york chant. "dead cops." "when do we want them"? "now." other hate-filled words spread through those same crowds. well, they were chanting nypd/kkk, how many kids have you killed today. and how do you spell racist, nypd. more hateful words. more hate speech. more reasons to fear for the lives of all police officers who are the only people standing between you and anarchy. it led me to say this. the nypd's police commissioner last month, about what i wanted to have police officers tell us. i wanted to hear them say on our

show when i should have called them on our show to say this. and i said this, quote, you don't hear about the fear that i have every night when i go out on my patrol. that i might not get home to my kids. i may not be able to walk my daughter down the aisle when she's married. i may not be able to see my son graduate from high school. saturday night, those fears were realized. and they were realized in part because of the hate-filled invektive aimed at cops over the past four months. st. louis finest deserve better. new york city's finest deserve better. so do police officers all across america. maybe now they'll get it. maybe now we'll reset the conversation. and maybe now we'll have an

honest discussion about how we balance the right of all americans and the safety of the men and women who are keeping us safe at night. mika. >> joe, let's reset the conversation right now. along with thomas and me, we have mark halperin here and dorian warren, also a guest out of boston we'll get to in just a moment. do dorian, given what joe just said, in the protests from ferguson to new york, is it fair to say the story of the cops might have gotten lost? >> yes, but i think if we were to go back and look at the footage and statements, especially from activists, i think not to draw the circle and say everyone was in one group -- >> no, that's not what we're saying -- >> -- that this is about practices and policies and policing, not police. >> yes, but you hear those chants and you hear the hatred on both sides and you even hear right now vitriol and rhetoric in response to this. that cycle doesn't help at all

and perhaps even promle gapromue violence we've just seen. >> -- policing practices leads, then, to someone that is -- everyone realizes is a murderer. i don't think we can say those legitimate criticisms. >> in a real conversation. because policies matter. >> i think the question is, though, what's the real conversation when you have people going around chanting hands up, don't shoot. when you have congress men saying hands up, don't shoot. "new york times," about police gunning down little children with toys. when you have, it seems, every presumption in mainstream media against law enforcement, you're going to lead to the type of hatred that is poured out into the streets and we saw saturday night in brooklyn.

is that not fair to say, mark halperin? >> i agree with what you said, joe. i think first all officers liu and ramos served the city well. i think the city needs to deal with that. the country needs to deal with what's now become an imbalance between the views of law enforcement and the responsibilities of license. i think the mayor, mayor deblaze ye de blasio has a lot on his shoulders. the relationship is out of balance and we've seen that. >> as i talk about responsible words, i understand the anger and the rage going through. a lot of police officers on saturday night after being assaulted verbally over the past four months and sometimes physically being assaulted, is fair though to say that the blood is on the hands of mayor

de blasio for simply saying what many of us say and that is we have the criminal justice system in america that is a lot tougher on young black males than they are on my children or other white children. >> this is a complicated stuff that curio courses through society. what we don't need is the mayor and the police at war. we just can't afford it. part of it has to do with city contracts. part of it has to do with policy disagreements. i thought the rhetoric over the weekend from both sides was incredibly irresponsible and unfortunate. >> let me say this really quickly. and then we need to get to our guests, i know. but those tragedies were no time to use language like that. because we're not going to stop the conversation on this show or

across america about the challenges that young black males face disproportionately in the criminal justice system. as much as a reality as the hatred levelled at police officers, we have to have a balanced fair conversation. and i understand the anger and the rage that new york police officers are feeling. that statement directed towards bill de blasio saying he had the blood of those officers on their hands, out of line. >> especially in light of the fact that new york police officers have been amazing. joining us from boston, retired superintendant and chief now the order of consulting firm lanski group. officer ramos was described as a religious husband and father of two. and his 13-year-old son wrote a touching tribute on facebook to his father who turned 40 less

than two weeks ago. he wrote this. this is the worst day of my life. today i have to say bye to my father. he was there for me every day of my life. he was the best father i could ask for. it is horrible that someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. everyone says they hate cops but they are people that they call for help. i will always love you. i will never forget you. rest in peace, dad. i bring that it up because that is the impact on the family. what's the impact on the department when something like this happens? >> let me just say there are no better sports rivalries than boston and new york and there are no better allies in policing than nypd and boston pd. nypd has been at our side. we've been there with them as well. that attack on the nypd was an attack felt on law enforcement across our nation. every one of us who put on a badge and raised our hand to

protect our citizens has sat in a police car and would have been subject to that assault. it's a tragedy for the officers. it's something the departments feel and officers are feeling deep within themselves. we had a christmas party and family members of mine are involved in law enforcement and it was a very sad event saturday night as we were mourning with new york. >> all right, all right, let me ask you, do police officers in general feel under siege because of the events of the past four months? >> absolutely. yes, there's two conversations going on. there's a conversation about how police are doing policing and whether it's the right way or not the right way to do it. there's another conversation going on saying is it worth it. we should do nothing and do it well. fortunately, the men and women of law enforcement will go out and do their job, as they do every day, and will continue to keep people safe. but inincredibly hard to be a police officer. 114 -- >> no, i'm --

>> -- 60% of officer involved shootings. the kids used to throw the guns when they were running from crime scenes. now they're absolutely confronting police. you couple that with the aspects of terrorism. somebody who is on social media and gets inspired by a terrorist overseas to attack officers with a hatchet. >> retired superintendent and chief of boston police department, dan lansky, thank you very much. cleared of school conduct violations linked to allegations of sexual assault. plus, which major sports league is taking on the issue of global warming. hint, melted rains probably not so good for ratings. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

♪ you don't need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we're exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg... isn't as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy.

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time now to take a look at the morning papers "the new york times." florida state seminoles quarterback jameis winston cleared of violating the code conduct. after a 2012 accusation of sexual assault. winston's lawyer posted on twitter part of the decision of the former judge who conducted the hearing. reading, in part, has not shown that you are responsible. winston was never arrested in the assault but faced a code of

conduct violation. given the time frame of an appeal process, the decision clears the way for the reigning national champion and heisman trophy winner stay on the field for the remainder of the season. the seminoles will play oregon in the playoff semifinals new year's day. >> from the chicago tribute and boxing great muhammad ali remains hospitalized with a mild case of pneumonia. he says the illness was caught early so the champ should only be in treatment for a few days. the 72-year-old is listed currently in stable condition. we certainly send him the best. >> nearly a dozen people were injured after a lightning strike in the stadium parking lot the tampa bay buccaneers. officials say the lightning struck this suv after sunday's game against the packers. no one was hit directly but witnesses say it was strong enough and close enough to knock some people to the ground. seven people were taken to the

hospital. they're all in stable condition. at least four others were treated on the scene. that is scary. >> florida is the lightning strike capital of the country. we look at this from the "washington post." the nhl is warming up to the idea of tackling climate change. the league announcing it's going to eliminate its carbon footprint by the end of the season so hockey officials will conduct an analysis to help generate ideas for greater energy efficiency. everything from electricity use to the way the teams travel. our sport was born on frozen ponds and to this day relies on winter weather. >> the daily mail. a firefighter dressed as santa came to the rescue in australia. the fire crew was busy delivering christmas presents when they jumped into action to save a man from a burning house. since his costume was extremely flammable, santa stayed outside to run hoses. the man is expected to recover. and the neighborhood kids get two heroes for the price of one.

coming up on "morning joe," weem get a check on what's driving today's market with cnbc's sara eisen plus the editor in chief of "glamour" magazine joins the conversation. plus, why she says taylor swift has made female friendships cool. she inspires you.

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welcome back. joining us now, the editor and chief of "glamour" magazine cindy levy. a year ago about right now, you and i went on vacation and ended up on the same island together. first of all, when you saw me in the airport, did you recognize me? >> i did. >> you did not. >> i think we were both annoyed because our plane had been rerouted. >> stuck on planes trains and automobiles for hours and hours. we were both taking part in thrive and we were unplugging. >> yes, digital detox. when i ran into you, you were not hunched over your phone. you were detoxing. >> you guys don't really unplug, is that true? >> i think we both unplugged for a week. >> we had no choice. it was a storm. >> it was a great experiment. >> a year later, because i actually have changed my ways a

little bit. it did take a long time. a little bit, yeah. i put it down. >> i try to as well. part of my motivation and parent's motivation is it's really, really hard to get on your children for all their social media use -- >> when you're on your -- >> setting a better example. >> try for the holidays, everybody i suggest. it's actually really good for the brain. before we get into the news, i interviewed you for my upcoming book. did you coin the term or get it from someone? provide or pride? >> i coined it and i believe in it, furthermore. the idea here is we were talking about, mika, i think a lot of women, a growing number of whom are primary providers in their household, feel slightly conflicted about that. i think it's very important for women to be able to have what men have always had, which is this sense of provider pride. not feeling conflicted. >> like i should be doing all these other things too. actually, you're providing.

>> you're priding for your new and for your children. which is such a wonderful gift to be able to give. to feel good about that is a great step for women. >> i talked to you and a number of really impressive women. there are lots of different opinions about this. thank you. that book's out in the spring. new polling suggests hillary clinton is still the clear front-runner for the democratic nomination in 2016 but her support may be slipping. in a new poll, 61% of likely democratic voters said they would vote for clinton in a possible primary. that gives her a commanding lead. but clinton's support has been on the decline since the beginning of the year. in the same poll, she is down from 73% in january. elizabeth warren on the other hand has been slowly on the rise up from 7% to 13% since june. still a big gap. but in your article, i think the current issue of glamour, you look at her. you're taking it seriously.

>> we do. a number of young women, democrats obviously, believe that elizabeth warren is a great viable candidate. i will say that politic watchers on both sides of the aisle will tell you. that is normal. she's gone from a position where she is largely outside of politics to one where people expect her to declare and the closer you get to a real-live election process, the more critical people are going to be and still in commanding lead. >> absolutely. in some ways, it might be over before it even starts. i've always been very openly supportive of the concept of elizabeth warren because i think she has a message that she has lived by and stands for that's very clear. and i can't remember when there's actually been two strong contenders already. women contenders. >> women contenders. that's the key. there actually have been more strong contenders overall in the democratic party than there are right now. the fact there are two women. frankly, nobody is talking much

about their gender. i think that's kind of fantastic. >> what's it going to look like if that actually happens? joe talks about -- he ran against a woman. there are potholes running against women that you can't predict. and it's much more complicated than -- you just think it's a groundbreaking thing that's happening. it's difficult for not only the women candidates but for their opponents. >> certainly true. obviously hillary clinton has run before. she's a pro at this. what was interesting in the coverage yesterday of this poll you're talking about is warren has been saying she's had no intention of challenging clinton and many in the democratic party are just interested to see if her candidacy, even her presence in the race, will change how hillary clinton addresses certain issues. >> i think it could be really good. all right, so taylor scriptwift the news. i'll let you go because you're obsessed with her. >> she's on fire.

she has a presence about her. there's a big "new york times" article the year in taylor swift. you were quoted in it. you said she makes friendships cool. tell me about that. >> it so unsunds a bit mystifyi. but women in the public eye are usually portrayed as fighting with each other. i think it's fantastic that taylor swift does not buy into it at all. she's always posting pictures of herself with her female friends. she has supporters in the sort of women artists community. and that, i think, is a really fantastic signal to girls. i mean, not that her presence alone is going to kill the mean girls phenomenon that exists in middle school -- >> she speaks to it though in so many of her songs. >> she's achieved fame and she's also being a great role model which is nice to see. >> i also think that speaks to how young women live now. because everybody's getting married later. you don't necessarily live that

close to your family. so your girl pack, your kind of posse, this group of women you have around you cheering you on at work and outside of the workplace, is really important. and women like that taylor swift speaks to that. >> i like that she speaks to young people because i think our generation, i don't know what you've seen, but i've witnessed a sea change where i think first we were a little scared of each other. and now we're really valuing each other and understanding the importance of the connection with women that we work with. i've seen a change. >> absolutely. and i think if you look on social media now and you see young girls posting really positive messages to each other, i think a lot of that actually can be traced back to -- >> really cool. australian prime minister tony abbott is drawing criticism for comments he made about his accomplishments for women. he was appearing on australian news program this weekend. when he said he was -- that pealing the country's carbon tax was his biggest achievement for women. abbott said, quote, as many of

us know, women are particularly focused on the household budget and the repeal of the carbon tax means a $550 a year benefit for the average family. abbott's comments sparked outrage on social media with people posting pictures of ironing, ironing boards and their household item also with the tongue in cheek #thanks tony. and put your iron out. i still see commercials today like the swiffer or -- >> with a man. >> with a man doing the work. >> there should be those commercials because men need the swiffer instructions. >> there's one with a guy doing laundry. >> i do swiffer. >> congratulations. >> there is -- what do you think? >> there are a couple of things. first of all, it's a bit of an eye roll as a comment so he was getting grief because of that. this comes against the context of a lot of heated debate about women in his position on women. a bit of a feminist hero in australia had once given a very

famous speech called the misogyny speech where she accused him of promoting sectionism and misogyny. >> terrific. so now it doesn't matter all the accomplishments you have, there's a huge list, but are your kitchen countertops really clean and your kitchen floor. >> are you asking mine? >> uh-huh. >> oh, god no. nor do i even aspire to that. >> what a failure. >> they're hygienic. >> exactly. damage control after its massive data breach. why it may have been inspired by the hit show "scandal." what they're doing. very interesting.

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congress has left washington for winter break. but what they left behind will be felt for quite some time. nbc senior white house correspondent chris jansing has the story it. >> if you printed it out, it would be near lay foot high and tucked away in nearly 3,000 pages of the chomnibus are things those voted on it don't know are in there. >> there's a little gift for everybody and many of those gifts aren't even opened up until later down the road when we find out what's really in them. >> specifically attaches money to many items. specific spending to keep guns away from the mentally ill. for the west coast to deal with the record drought. and to stop the poaching of rhinos. a lot of it is less about government spending than special interest debates. take the sage grouse. environmentalists lost their bid

to classify it as endangered, opened up opportunities for oil and gas drilling opportunities. cattle ranchers won't have to get epa gas house permits for a different kind of gas. cow flat u lens. that the government believes contributes to climate change. and makeover of the one dollar bill. and rules that require truckers to get more sleep. >> people rightly feel that the special interests are the ones who run the show. and that the ordinary american is left out. >> so many provisions that debate on any one thing is rare. like money for travel promotion in places like florida and vegas. >> last i checked, casinos were very profitable endeavors that didn't need the taxpayers. helping them out. >> in all, $1.1 trillion, enough

to stretch from the earth to the sun. but, critics say, without much light on the process. >> that was chris jansing reporting. let's get to business before the bell now with cnbc's sara eisen, who joins us now. >> we are following the latest drama over sony and the hack attack by north korea. you mentioned this before the break, straight out of scandal, sony hiring judy smith, who is actually the real-life inspiration behind the character olivia pope on "scandal." crisis management expert. played of course by carrie washington. but the real-life lady is being brought in according to reports by sony after harsh criticism for pulling the movie "the interview" after emays within sony were hacked. president obama laying it on, saying it was the wrong decision. plenty of commentary at the diplomatic level at the top. president obama saying on cnn this weekend, sort of toning down the rhetoric that it wasn't an act of war what north korea

did, but an act of cyber vandalism. he does say there will be a proportion naal response. corporations all over the globe watching. how the u.s. government handles this. and of course if there are any ramifications from north korea as well. >> you've got news on gas prices. >> they keep falling, down 25 cents in the last two weeks. the average price of regular grade gasoline, $2.47 across this country. the highest price was actually measured right around here in long island, new york. the lowest price at the pump down to $2 a gallon in tulsa, oklahoma. we've been talking about this falling oil prices over the past two weeks. a stunning drop for oil. and now american consumers are feeling it. more money in their pocket. >> sara eisen, thanks very much. the sony story. the president calling it cyber

vandalism. i don't know. i can't imagine this isn't devastating inside the company. just think if -- >> it's incredible. it's devastating, as it would be at any company. i think the important thing here is obviously there are a lot of questions. did sony do the right thing in canceling this career. obama originally said something more dramatic about this. let's not get distracted from the big question which is how are we all going to protect our businesses in the future. >> and e-mail as employees of a company -- >> it is absolutely not private. i think the temptation is to see it that way. you know you can't. >> up next, it's what every news junky wants for the holidays. the top ten list of stories for 2014 and the big story that could have been top ten but didn't even make the list. stay with us.

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here with us now, david query, here with the ap's top ten stories of 2014, along with cindy levy of "glamour"

magazine. this has been doing this list since 1936. >> that's right. who chooses? >> we send out a ballot. let our news directors, people from the u.s. top journalists, experienced journalists, almost like the football poll. >> you pointed out this list is heavy. >> it is heavy. and you were saying before that. the stories never start happening. you'd think it was going to be the biggest story of the world. three months later, you almost forgotten, the malaysian airplane. >> they keep coming because you close the books and then sony happened. >> i think sony and cuba. happened well before we were

voting. >> take us through the stories. let's start with number ten, the va scandal. >> i think that resonated with people because of who the victims were. there are a lot of scandals in washington. it's almost like we're tired of them. but people emphasize with that. i think that's what hit home with the va scandal. >> number nine, same sex marriage. >> all year long, these court rulings kept coming to strike down state bans. i think people are anticipating that that story is going to come very soon, possibly with the supreme court ruling that legalizes gay marriage nationwide. >> number eight, turmoil in the ukraine. >> boy, there's another story that just never stopped. remember, there was revolution in kiev and the president was ousted. we thought, wow, what a story. well, look what happened after that. >> it just kept building. >> snowballing. >> number seven, immigration. >> same thing. there was a phase in the summer where all these young people

were coming at the border. that seemed really dramatic. now the president's executive order to spare a lot of people from the threat of deportation. so you put those two together, it was a big story. >> i'm interested in number six, the malaysian airlines mystery. it literally was unbelievable, what we were watching. >> it's still not solved. unbelievable. >> how do you lose a plane like that? >> exactly, and no sign that mystery -- the end is coming. not a single bit of clue yet. >> what else do we have? >> that was number one. the previous year. 2013. all the glitches when the rollout came. this year, it's like, well, they're doing a little better but it's still a work in progress. i think both critics and supporters still see it as a work in progress. >> if you look at number four, the elections, and the oddsmakers, republicans had a chance to gain control of the u.s. senate. turned out there was no suspense, the gop won. what did that tell us?

what was the lesson learned there? >> in my mind, this year's election was beginning to set the stage for 2016. it's like this didn't -- this was not an end game this year. sort of jockeying, the republicans a little better off than they were. they're not sure about the presidential prospects two years from now. i think this was sort of a setup for two years from now. normally, u.s. election is number one. this year, there was some pretty dramatic -- >> i'm try to think of the timing, but isis popped up as a big story. that was midsummer. >> does joe want to jump in, guys? joe's here it. >> you look, especially in the summer.

we have gaza, we can go down the list. there's no doubt the story that really riveted everybody this summer and continues to be with us. talk about that being your top story. >> well, exactly. it hasn't stopped. people who try to bridge those two communities. it's going to be a real challenge. they're all trying to do something productive. >> i noticed when i first started knocking on doors when

my political career started. i always it was john wayne's america versus jane fonda's america. we got away from that. but i fear we're moving back towards that. you're either on the side of law enforcement or on the side of those would believe law enforcement are stepping their bounds. >> thank you so much for this list. i'd like to clarify, you have not been doing the list since 1936 but the ap has. >> that's right. >> up next, what if anything did we learn today.

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did you get chips for the party? nope. (ding) cheese plate? cheese plate. no, i made something better. you used the oven? boom. pillsbury crescents. make the holidays pop. let's start with you, north korea. you're one of the most evil countries in the world. and your act of war is to kill a movie. it's easy to kill a movie. just move it to january. come on, sony. you thought it was a joke to have james franco assassinate kim jong-un? the man single-handedly almost killed the oscars. think, think. >> all right. it's time to talk about what we learned today. joe, we'll start with you. did you learn anything?

>> well, we have a long way to go to get city hall and the police department working together. i thought ray kelly was right on. maybe even a religious leader to step into the fray and bring these two sides together. it's tough enough running new york city without city hall and the police department at war with each other. we have to get beyond that. >> cindy levy. >> we learned to have provider pride, an important thing for women who work. we learned it has been an incredibly dramatic news year and there are still nine days left. >> okay, now you've made me nervous. >> i learned you should go see "american sniper." it's nice they got that story right. >> i saw it this weekend. it is incredible. >> phenomenal. >> bradley cooper. you guys know i'm not making it up. he has done an incredible,

incredible job with this movie. it's amazing. >> great project. >> it's if way too early, what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." but stick around right now. it's time for "the rundown" with jose. >> and a good monday morning to you. the shock surrounding the execution-style murders of of two new york city police officers is giving way to heat, anger and heated politics and the police. some police are so angry several rank and file officers turned their back on him saturday. this morning, commissioner bill bratton telling matt lauer the tension in this city is the worst he's seen since the '70s. >> when i first came into policing, my first ten years were a lot of this type of tension. who have with ever thought day jay view all over