today has stunned many in the city. case in point, union chief pat lynch. >> that blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor. when these funerals are over, those responsible will be called on the carpet and held accountable. >> the man who pulled the trigger began his spree in baltimore where he shot his ex-girlfriend. she survived and and is being treated at a hospitalized. then he took a bush to new york city. bratton says the officers were ambushed, targeted for the uniforms they wore. >> there are almost no words that can explain what happened. quite obvious the targeting of these police officers was a direct spin-off of this issue of these demonstrations. >> police say moments before the attack, the gunman told two bystanders, quote, watch what i am going to do.

>> we have found on one of our videos two males who spoke with the prerpetrator prior to the event and says, watch what i'm going to do. he walks northbound, circles around, across the street and comes up on the officers. we were able to identify two eyewitnesss to the account. two particularly courageous con ed workers chased him and alerted him the officers who pursued him down to the subway, when he took his life. >> president obama is monitoring the developments from hawaii and pledging washington support. >> we need to make sure that we can have conversations about how policing can be done effectively, how we can have community policing going forward, but we also need to at the same time protect our law enforcement personnel. and i think having the conversation about one is not undercutting the other. we have to have them both. >> msnbc's adam reiss is at the

crime scene in brooklyn. the mayor spoke earlier to police athletic league. many felt he showed great respect for the police there, but the city is waiting with baited breath for this press conference that will happen at the half hour. what is the mood where you are right now? >> well, toure, i can tell you that this memorial behind me is growing by the minute. flowers, candles, cards. police officers from around the city coming here to pay their respects and grieve together. a lot of emotion, a lot of tears. we can tell you that we've learned more about the hours leading up to the crime as well as the criminal history of brinsley. he was arrested 19 times in georgia and ohio. he had spent two years in jail and his mother has told police that he had tried to commit suicide this year. now, as you heard, when he arrived on the scene, he had run into two people. he began a conversation. he said, i want you to follow me on instagram. he asked them what their gang affiliation was. then he said, watch what i'm going to do.

now, i can tell you minutes ago pat lynch, head of the police union, showed up here in uniform, to pay his respects. we just learned minutes ago as well, brewedbruden college wher officer ramos' son went, offered to pay the remainder of his tuition for his education. >> adam reiss in brooklyn, thank you. on set is former nypd officer eugene o'donnell, now professor of law at jon jay college of criminal justice and in d.c., nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon. you gene, i start with you. i have to imagine this moment is especially hard for police officers in new york city and america in general because this is an execution. police officers understand they potentially get killed every day, but when you have an execution, right after a moment when the police handled massive protests in new york city with great concern and care and were widely hailed for handling it

the right way, to have this happen has to be so painful. talk about how the men and women who are the street are feeling. >> i think there's a lot of anger and a lot of feelings that people have been talking about police work, who don't know what they're talking about. i think that's why the commissioner is such an important figure because he does know what he's talking about and has led and will lead going forward. i think also those who are -- i'm getting a lot of calls about why is the pba saying what they're saying. understand, this is a hospital room where metaphorically pat lynch's entire membership has been killed. they didn't pick them because of who they were. they picked them because of the uniform they are wearing. 48 hours, i assume there's going to be a chance to have a much more reasoned dialogue, but to cite the statement somebody makes in an emergency room who basically -- and the other thing -- i hope people will recognize, to me, labor rights are civil rights. this is a union that represents its members. that has to be said over and over again. >> we have to understand that

pat lynch and the union is in a very difficult situation. but these sort of comments, saying that the mayor has blood on his hands, the pair shoumayo not be showing up to officer funerals. >> you have a deranged guy, causality is lacking. but there's extreme tension that people have not been able to articulate what the police do and explain the circumstances they're in. hopefully as we get -- as we move forward, there will be more chance to have a more rational and less emotional conversation. >> perry, i'd like to come to you. mikey kay standing in for ari melber. i spent 20 years in the military and we were very much told to respect the rank of an individual rather than the individual itself. is there an argument to say here that given what we saw about the nypd turning their backs on de blasio, is this a real good opportunity for the nypd to take the moral high ground and look more towards the office of the mayor than what seems to be a

devisice approach from de blasio? >> i think there's an opportunity there. this is nothing new in the sense police have had tensions with mayors. david dinkens had tension as well. you might look at how the police in new york, teachers in new york, another big constituency there is, we should raise concerns, we have them, we don't agree with the way de blasio has spoke in the last few weeks. i respect their right to speak out that they disagree with the mayor. >> eugene, we were saying the emotion right now is still so very raw. one of the sons of the police officer who was killed, jayden ramos sent out a facebook message saying today is the worst day of my life. today hi to say bye to my father. it's horrible someone gets shot dead just for being a police officer. then he goes on to say, everyone says they hate cops but they are the people they call for help. i will always love you. i will never forget you. this is a young man who has

grown up probably spending a lot of time around the nypd, speaking very candidly about how he feels people think about cops. what do you make from that statement? >> i think if anybody saw the pictures outside of woodhull hospital, should put light that this organization doesn't have diversity of the city. you won't see more cops unified in an emergency. i just want to say, there were some -- there was some commentary. there was commentary this summer that was really outrageous in terms of police officers should be indicted just to be indicted. they should be tried just to be tried. talking about their due process rights like they don't matter. talking about their presumption of innocence, like they don't matter. so, again, understand that we're talking about the pba. again, understand the pba has taken a role in saying there was overpolicing. so, demonizing -- i'm not a demonizer to begin with, but i believe demonizing the pba at this point is not a good place to begin either. >> speaking of demonization and

the comments back and forth, let's take a step back and look at this from the national per speck tifr. president obama has talked about racial tensions and has not totally been successful, even by his own administration's account. there was the trayvon martin incident, gates. here bill de blasio after eric garner's grand jury determined not to indict the officer in that case, now bill de blasio is being blamed in some corners for the murders that we're seeing here today. clearly, this is a very difficult conversation for elected officials to have. what does that say about where we are as a country in terms of race and the political angle to this? is this something any politician can talk about or is it just too inflammatory at this point? >> i think it's really hard. i mean, the reality is if you're bill de blasio, if you're president obama f you're eric holder f you're a democratic --

person elected to the democratic party, essentially, you have to speak about racial issues. one reason you earn your jobs is because african-americans overwhelmingly elect democrats. there's a lot of pressure on obama, holder, de blasio, like their comments about what happened to martin and garner, they came from people like al sharpton asking, where are you going to weigh in? how are you going to weigh is? -n? i think their leadership role in those incidents, being black leaders and leaders with black constituencies, they have to speak out even when they know it's dangerous. i will add obama's comments about trayvon in 2013 did not create this. you get the long speech that day. he did not create a big amount of backlash. what created the backlash and the tension about this murder that happened on saturday has really changed this conversation in a lot of ways. you've seen the anger that's there. the question for de blasio today is, can he figure out a way to kind of meet the expectations and the needs of both the police

and the black community who are both in tension a little bit right now on police practices and so on. is there a way to meet and kind of fit both their needs at once? that's a real challenge but that's ultimately what his job is right now in new york and that's what the president and eric holder are trying to do nationally. >> that's, indeed, a big challenge for the mayor. eugene, do you think it's fair to say this mayor has blood on his hands? >> that's not language i would choose to have. i think we had a very bad, corrosive dialogue. i think elected officials at every level should have stepped up. still have an opportunity to step up and explain what the police do and stop making it like the police are out there on a limb. >> do you think the mayor can get the police department back on his side? >> i think it's essential. i think the part i feel very confident about, having been a police officer in brooklyn, is the community, this is one of -- no matter what happens, there's bumps in the road. ultimately the police are always one of the most esteemed professions. any cop who's been out in the streets of brooklyn north,

brooklyn south, for example, will tell you, there's a tremendous ground swell of good will. comes also have to learn to happen into that sometimes. >> stay with us. we'll have more on this. we're waiting on the press conference from the mayor and police commissioner. we'll bring that to you as soon as it happens as "the cycle" rolls on, monday, december 22nd. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. ♪ there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3...2...1... are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable.

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breaking news. north korea is experiencing a widespread internet outage right now, coming a few days after the white house promised a, quote, proportional response for the sony hack attack they're being blamed for. kristen welker is with the

president in honolulu. what are you hearing about this? >> reporter: the white house isn't denying the attack at the same time one official tells me they have no additional information to share. are you right. it's significant. it's coming just days after president obama vowed a proportional response against north korea. we also know the administration is continuing to weigh its responses. senior administration officials having those discussions right now. and president obama tipped his hand a little bit on sunday when he said that among the options that the administration was considering was possibly adding north korea back to the terror list. that would mean increased economic and trade sanctions. now, one expert cautions, though, that could be more politically symbolic than anything else because there are already a range of sanctions imposed against north korea for decades. now, just a little bit of history on that point. north korea had been on the terror list for years. and then in 2008 under former president george w. bush the country was taken off because

president obama wanted to strike a nuclear weapons deal with the country. that deal fell apart. north korea remains off of the terror list. that is the backdrop as there's another debate brewing about this. president obama when asked how he would characterize this attack said it was an act of cyber vandalism. republicans say that the president is downplaying this attack. senator john mccain is calling this an act of cyber warfare. he is urging the administration to have a strong, robust response. so, that is the backdrop as the administration tries to determine what its next steps will be. and i am told we can expect president obama to be briefed regularly on the range of options before him while he continues his vacation here in hawaii. >> kristen welker with the president and palm trees in the background. thanks very much. let's turn to former top boss at the fbi, shawn henry. basic question needs to be answered as we look at what's happening with sony hacking is

north korea still claims they had nothing to dough with this while the fbi is sure they did. walk us through this. if north korea wanted to send a message with a hack, wouldn't they take credit for it? what's the motive to deny responsibility for it? >> i don't know why they would not claim responsibility. i know what the fbi looked at when they came up with the determination. my organization has been following the north koreans for about two or three years. you've looked at the same evidence the bureau looked at based on other attacks they've launched. i don't know it's unusual for them to deny this, especially if they're concerned about what type of retribution there might be. >> shawn w this country wide internet outage in north korea, i think we see a proportional response to the hack that attacked america, at least sony corporation. though, i wonder, is this more something that will impact the people rather than the government or is there a submotive or subtext that now the people will be upset with the government and that will

start some other sort of ball rolling? >> well, wide-ranging internet outage is a relative term in a country like north korea which has relatively little internet connectivity to begin with. if, in fact, that's the u.s. sending a message, then that is what it does. and if that causes some consternation among the north korean people and some type of outrage against their political leaders, so be it. >> yeah. and there are questions around whether north korea is even capable of something like this. there have been some reports the original ip dress came from china. we have not confirmed those reports. in the case china has any association with this, first of all, is that a likelihood? if that's the case, how does that change the conversation and ultimately our proportional responses to this? >> well, north korea will launch attacks through other nations using their ip space. the fact that -- that there are ip addresses from china as well as other countries, that is

normal in any type of attack. you'll see ip addresses from a whole range of places so that is not indicative of anything. to your first point, north korea absolutely has the capability of doing this. we've seen them do this before, they have the capabilities. honestly, the types of attacks weave seen here are not so sophisticated that only the most capable nation states can do it. there are a wide range of actors that can conduct this type of activity, which is why the american people should be concerned. >> it's michael kay here. i'm curious about this whole notion of putting north korea back on the terrorist predicated on a cyber attack. is this not really a dangerous precedent to set given north korea aren't even in the top ten when it comes to people orr countries that have -- that have conducted attacks worldwide? countries like china, which are number one, indonesia which are prolific and the u.s., which is in the top three, are we not setting a red line which will be hard to maintain or be consistent with when we look at other countries?

>> right. well, you know, i think the president had to make a statement. i think this is far beyond cyber vandalism, which is what the president said. vandalism to me is graffiti. this is well beyond that. as far as senator mccain saying it's cyber war, i think we're somewhere in the middle. i would call this cyber terrorism where somebody, a nation state in this case, is using threats of violence to influence people's actions. that is the very definition of terrorism. so, to the extent that we're going to classify is it as something, i think cyber terrorism is really in the area where it should be considered. and all actions by the president should be on the table. >> agreed. but the u.s., shawn, is doing exactly the same. the u.s. is number three culprit in the world today. are we not being a bit hypocritical here? i understand what you say about cyber terrorism but the u.s. is equally to blame. >> where it relates to these types of acts where we're talking about destructive

attacks in other nations, via cyber, i don't know that we are in that same ballpark. this type of issue requires government-to-government discussion. i'm concerned about an escalation in this area which will have a cascading impact globally if we don't have nations sitting down and having discussions about these very type of attacks on the line of nuclear war and weapons of mass destruction. i really put this in the same category. >> got it. i want to bring in adam, author of his new book "what stays in vegas: the world of personal data, life blood of big business and in the end of privacy as we know it." adam, welcome to the show. >> thank you very much. >> given what we know now in terms of this career and this notion of labeling north korea back on the terrorist, what's your view on this? >> well, what i think is most interesting for the bulk of the united states population is that vast amounts of data are collected about all of us all

the time by companies in the united states, mostly, but also worldwide. there are vast dossiers held by date dait that brokers and others that have thousands of points of information about us. what the sony attack has shown is personal information gathered in a central place, such as a company, could be very vulnerable -- could lead to great vulnerabilities about people and be used against us. that's something we should be concerned about as we go about our daily lives and share so much information. >> we're dealing in a lot of ways with unchartered territory here, something we've never experienced. how well prepared are we to deal with this? obviously, this is going to be a new problem as we move forward. probably one of our leading challenges in terms of our international security. how well prepared are we for this? >> well, unfortunately, we've seen a whole series of troubling attacks against our personal information even in the past year or so, jpmorgan chase lost two-thirds of american household data, where people live, their contact numbers, their e-mail

addresses and so on. they didn't lose the financial information. there's been some big medical hacks in the last year where a couple million people's medical information was out there. of course, the sony hack may have revealed personal information. there's a big problem securing the data. at the same time, we have this economy in which businesses advancing their own goals are rapidly increasing their sophistication and gathering data about us. if that information is not secure, there's a lot of information about hundreds of millions of americans that can be accessed. >> shawn, i want to bring you back in. is every major corporation in america equally vulnerable the way that sony proved vulnerable to any sort of major hacker? >> i think that is the common thought here. that our infrastructure is inherently insecure and that especially when we're asking u.s. companies, global companies, to protect themselves from nation states. we literally have u.s. citizens who are works in private corporate world who are fighting

foreign armies on the networks every single day. that is happening. well-trained, well-funded, well-supported armies. and that is an issue that requires government intervention. is going to require u.s. companies to adopt better types of technology to better protect and defend themselves. detection is key in this area. and when we're fighting against nation states, this is an area that's going to require grave technical innovation. >> we'll have to see where the response goes with this. i want to thank shawn henry and adam tenor, thank you. coming up, back to our top story this hour. new york mayor bill de blasio and bill bratton are set to speak as tense series plays out in america's largest city. you'll see it here when it happens. i'm angela,

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special correspondent for "the daily beast" who has details on heroic officers to save those two officers. michael, tell us what happened there. >> well, the bedford-stuyvesant ambulance corps heard the call for officer down. they arrived at the scene. there were two police officers terribly wounded sitting in the front seat of a radio car. one ambulance so they had to split up. one young woman and another person from the ambulance corps took officer liu on the passenger side and johnson took the officer ramos on the driver's side. and of their whole account, the thing that stays with me is there was this moment when johnson was pressing on the officer's chest, desperately trying to bring life back into him and the officer was staring up at him. the paramedic was staring down into the officer's eyes and

saying, please, just blink, if can you hear me, blink, blink if can you hear me, move, blink. and he just wanted the tiniest sign of life. just the blink of an eye, literally. and it didn't come. >> truly heroic acts. matt lauer had bill bratton on and he asked him candidly about the tense relationship between mario de blasio. he said, some in the nypd have lost confidence in the mayor. actually, we have it now. let's take a look at that. >> as the police commissioner when you saw those officers turn their back on him at the home , hospital, has the mayor of this city lost the trust and confidence of the police force? >> i think he has lost it with some officers. i was at the hospital when that evented occurred. >> do you support those officers in the way they protested? >> i don't support that particular activity. i don't think it was

appropriate, especially in that setting but it was reflective of the angle of some of them. >> we're about to hear from mayor de blasio in a few minutes who is obviously getting heat for his handling leading up to this. what do you think he needs to say? what would the nypd like to hear him say that would help rebuild some of this confidence that has been lost, as he was saying, by some of the cops? >> he should tell the truth, that the nypd is an outstanding organization, one of the top law enforcement agencies in the country. it's extremely restrained, extremely professional. he knows because he was a councilman. he knows the good the cops are doing every day and how much of a life line they provide. and where the city would be without a dedicated group of people -- we're lucky to have people that want to put a uniform on and go out there. i know he knows that because he does know that from the bottom up. he was somebody who got a lot of community complaints in the district he was in. not a day goes by in that

district where people are calling for the police and want them to take care of things. >> michael, what would you like to hear in a few moments from mayor de blasio? >> well, i know what i would have liked to have heard before these officers were murdered, that is thank you. thank you for transforming new york. thank you for making it the safest big city in america. thank you for making it safe for my son to get home from school. now, i think he was right today to say we need to focus on the families of the two murdered officers and that we should set this aside for a decent period of mourning. and then what he has to do is -- i don't think he lost the trust of the officers. he never had it in the first place, i don't think. and i don't think he fully appreciated what they did for the city. and i think what he has to do is he has to appreciate himself -- he has to appreciate them himself in a true and decent way and then he has to convey that to them. >> eugene, can you explain to the folks why are we here in this moment? what is it de blasio has done

and not done that has made the police department so angry that they're turning their back on him and telling him not to come to the funerals and these sorts of things? >> again, i think we had a narrative that went on for months where those of us that have been part of the nypd who know the nypd, we didn't recognize that narrative. that isn't a narrative we recognize. there was an incident last week in brooklyn where a police officer did everything humanly possible not to shoot someone. that's the nypd i recognize. so cops are sitting in precincts saying, what are these people talking about? this is a total disconnect for the day-to-day -- >> is there something de blasio said that has those officers angry? >> there's a vacuum -- i think there's a price to pay when you have moral equivalent arguments or you allow things that are not true to be consistently stated. there's a necessity not to let that stuff percolate. have you to say that's wrong. if you're saying nypd is killing

people all the time, that's -- >> has there ever been a relationship as tense as it is right now? >> well, they laid off, so that was a bad time. but i think this is bad but, again, this is a set of unique circumstances. somewhat unique circumstances because it goes beyond the city. there's sort of an unprecedented period of police bashing going on without any precedent. >> when he wh we come back, we'll have mayor de palacio. you total your brand new car.

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welcome back. as we wait for new york mayor bill de blasio to come to the podium, let's bring back shawn henry, now president of the security firm crowd strike services. now the feds are involved in the two shootings that took place over the weekend. walk us through what's going to happen next here. >> well, you know, the fbi and federal government wants to show its support, i think, for local law enforcement. this is a wide-ranging issue.

while this impacted the new york city police department, with some of the events we've seen around the country, this may potentially have an impact domestically across the country. i'm sure the fbi is going to help looking to see if, in fact, there were any other co-conspirators that may have been involved. they're going to help run down some of the leads that have come out recently, some of the social media issues we've seen where others have made some types of threats. there may be some chatter, that is evolving in some of the communities. so, the bureau and others in federal law enforcement will help their partners, their brothers and sisters in local law enforcements to make sure they send a strong message that law enforcement is standing together against this type of activity. >> we see they're preparing for this press conference. i want to bring in eugene o'donnell, currently professor at jon jay college of criminal justice. eugene, you know this landscape better than anybody out there. for our viewers who may not be as familiar with the new york political landscape, walk us

through what is the background to de blasio/nypd relationship that began during his campaign in 2013 when he ran specifically against the stop and frisk practice, which was the practice that was stopping mostly black and latino men and how that played out in terms of relationships with the cops. it was an argument that de blasio made that helped him get elected but clearly was probably not something that the police department appreciated very much. >> well, we -- there's a reason there's a term limit for mayor in new york city. we had a mayor for 12 years and it probably would have been better to have a mayor for eight. certainly better for a police commissioner at eight. >> are you talking about ray kelley? >> i'm talking about commissioner kelley, who i have the highest regard for, but stop and frisk was a real issue and percolating issue. mayor de blasio ran on that issue. that should have been curtailed. stop and frisk should only be done as an absolute minimum when

there's absolute legitimate suspicion. it became a numbers game. cops, to their credit, most will tell you they were opposed to that kind of denamic. >> you don't think the de blasio campaign explicitly running on that topic is not the background of the acrimony we see now? >> the landscape got clustered with police reform. most of them had never been police people in a department that's extremely well restrained and pretty accountable on any given day when you look at the volume of the work they did. so, you now have an office like the inspector general, which nobody even knows what it does. my only hope is it will stay on the sidelines. they won't make it harder for the cops to do their jobs. it seems like sometimes there's ten overseers for cops out on the street. >> we're hearing every police officer in new york city who's on the street right now is armed. there's no one who doesn't have an -- who is not armed out in the streets right now. and this is a change, a temporary change, but a change that you have to anticipate after something like that

happens, after folks feel like every officer, you know, is being targeted. those sort of tactics changed. what sort of other tactics change would you imagine are going on right now to keep everybody safe? >> well, i think there will be collaboration federally. i think that there will probably be from a tactical perspective, i've heard some of the other officers talking today about the movement towards detectives going out in twos and threes and squad cars going out also ensuring there's ample backup before getting involved in a particular situation. so, while police officers must remain vigilant and typically do, i think that there is a heightened level of awareness. and you know, police officers, they've got to come home safely at the end of the day. these are men and women who are sacrificing their lives every single day to protect citizens. for the vast majority of the time have a wonderful relationship with the citizens and the community. it's unfortunate that they're at this heightened alert, but that's the state we're in.

>> >> i want to bring back in msnbc senior political report, perry bacon. how are these effects impacting sort of pan-america and the protocols and the way that police departments across america are now reacting post what happened on the weekend? >> we haven't seen yet exactly what's going to be the result. we were having a discussion before this after the eric garner case about body cameras, increased police training, issues of police reform, which one of the other guests referred to earlier. i'll be curious to see how this affects this discussion around the country now. will there be a pullback from some of these police protests? you heard de blasio saying we need to calm down the protests for now because today for de blasio, this is really about whatever you think about the comment about blood on his hands, for de blasio, that suggests a really deep tension between he and the police department. and i assume as a politician, de blasio's got to be thinking about that. how does he use this press conference to start lessening that divide? >> perry, it looks like the mayor is coming out at any

moment. president obama went on his trip just before this all happened. i'm sure he's watching this all play out very closely. is it your sense that he is having conversations with mayor de blasio and folks that are directly involved in this? >> don't know about de blasio. i know that the president just created this police task force in the wake of the garner case a few weeks ago. and i know the white house made clear to tell us reporters that the president talked to the head of that task force on sunday and kind of said, we need to talk about the issue of these shootings on saturday in relation to what happened as well. the white house really trying to make sure this is a discussion about how to police and the communities they work with, get along better. not just a discussion about why people don't like police. so, i know they're trying to figure out how to we make the discussion more inclusive of officers and less a discussion of people being angry with the police. >> perry, there has been a lot of anger with the police over the last few months. we've had thousands of people in the streets protesting peacefully, saying they want better policing and then a

handful of people doing very damaging and destructive things and saying very damaging and inflammatory things about the police that is not fair, not appropriate. when we have this sort of incident we had saturday and that minority that is taking this in a very violent direction, does that damage the movement for the thousands, the millions of people who want better policing in america? >> absolutely. you've heard that from the officers in new york already. they feel like in their view the movement has went from being peaceful. there are violent parts of that, they're wary of that and they feel they're there are anti-police parts of it as opposed to anti-police brutality parts of it. that's a problem for the movement going forward. it will be interesting to see, like i said, where does the movement go from here? you've had a galvanizing the country that's very unusual. not just in new york but in cities all across the country. you've seen the movement k we change our policing works? can we talk about body cameras? can we talk about training? can we talk about police doing

better dealing with minorities and minority communities? the question is, does that continue? how does the conversation change in the wake of these -- is there too much anti-police anamous? you've heard silver rights leaders talking already, you can be pro-police reform in some ways, you can also be very concerned about what happened on saturday. but i think that line that's challenging a reach and that will be the question -- and i think de blasio will be the first person to really enter this conversation and start framing it hopefully in a productive way. >> you talk about police reform there, perry. we bring ba yback eugene o'donnell. as we watch mayor de blasio of speak of what happened. how has nypd changed under de blasio? he's been the mayor for a year. he's had bill bratton as his police commissioner. has it been a very different nypd than it was under ray kelly? >> the job satisfaction numbers are very low. there's a tremendous number of cops that wish they never took the job. a tremendous number of cops that

will like to get out as soon as they can. this willer bait -- >> i'm sorry. why is that? what changed? >> a lot is the jobs and the pressure they're under and a 1600-rule book and only police, inside baseball stuff. also the notion -- again, police have no automatic protection. when they put their hands on somebody, they are at risk to be criminally charged, always. even though it doesn't happen a lot, it can happen. by the time they start their tour by the time the day is over, they could be criminally prosecuted. when they get into legitimate shootings, i know because i represented them as the d.a., the slip we give the grand jury says the people of the state of new york versus, whose name is that-s on that slip is a police officer's name. police officers can leave, will leave. i think there's some sort of sea change in the rhetoric that goes well beyond city hall, but unless there's a sea change in the rhetoric, we'll have one big demoralized police force and people will not want to be on the job. the most idealist are the ones

we should be most worried about. >> let's bring in msnbc jim cavanaugh, atf retired special agent. let's talk about this notion eugene was just mentioning about the feeling of police officers. we have a lot of demoralized police officers in new york right now, perhaps throughout the nation, and just their basic everyday notion of officers being killed every single day. can't imagine what that -- what that's like, that being part of your line of work. talk about what it is like to be a man or woman on the beat and fearing death and having the community saying whatever they're saying about you and, perhaps, not even feeling supported by your mayor as well in new york. >> right. i mean, these things run deep. you know, when you're in a radio car, and i wore the uniform, everything you do, people know who you are, they know -- they look at everything they do, they watch you, you're on display in the community. but eugene makes a good point about the morale of the police. i think it's so important.

you know, police can face death, violence, they can deal with that. i mean, they really can. it's part of the -- you know, when they take the badge on. what hurts, i think, so much is we've lost sort of this moral contract we've had with police, firefighters, even go so far as teachers, where everybody wants to grab their pensions away. you know, the social contract was, you go and be a policeman. you go and be a fireman. you're going to risk your life. guess what? you're never going to get rich. you're never going to be wealthy. you're not going to have the corporate bonuses. you're not going to have the big wall street money. but you know what, after your service we'll give you a real, good decent pension. that's kind of the social contract. now that's even whittled away. their pension is cut. the thing they hope to get when they put their 30 years in, like eugene is saying, they want out now. they to want get out. and we should look at that because pensions are important

issues for officers. and we should keep those intact and good because it makes them want to stay on. that being said, i think the nypd is a great force and it will rally, it will be out there, it will come back. being safe on the beat's tough. you've got to be alert. if we look at how this shooter acted, you know, he stalked, he walked around the radio car, he came around from behind. so, there's some movements there to remember. so, you're out there, you know, you got to be watchful. sometimes just sitting in the car still is a dangerous thing to do. have you to be out, maybe looking. one's out or both out. these guys don't just run up. they might watch you first. >> it's michael kay speaking. with regard to the press conference that's just about to start, is there anything de blasio could say in this conference that might decompress the friction of the head of steam that has been built up and the dialogue we've seen since ferguson? >> that's a great question. and i think there is. i mean, the mayor has got to take the leadership position

here and not strike back at the police unions, the pba and the sergeant's benevolent association and those vocal against him. he has to rise against it and ask for the dialogue. he's got to be willing to talk with them, sit down. don't accept the insult. don't worry about it. let it go by. the city's more important than that. people are more important -- of new york are more important and so are the 35,000 members of the nypd more important than that. don't let that be an obstacle. see if you can sit down, listen to what the other guy says. listen, listen, that's the key. understand what the other guy says. sure, in a private meeting, they'll vent, there will be -- it will be tough, go ahead and do it. get your start. start the dialogue. you need to do it for the city. you need to rice above. i think commissioner bratton can do it. we've got to keep our cops safe. we can't have a situation like this. you know, it's really bad because you can support the police and be against injustice. >> right.

>> can you. >> that's exactly right. to expand on mikey's question, eugene, beyond just what the mayor's about to say and bill bratton, what needs to happen for this conversation to what n happen. for this conversation to calm down for all citizens to feel protected and for the cops to feel respected. what has to happen to get that point. >> the extremist conversation has to stop and a more centered conversation has to commence and the community has to be in the middle. will are people who proport to speak for people in -- >> looks luike the mayor and bil bratton are walking in now. let's take there now. >> good afternoon. if i can, let me make brief introduction of those at the podium. to my left chief of detectives

in brooklyn, pat conry who along with the chief of detectives father new york city, chief of patrol and to my right first deputy ben tucker and mayor bill de blasio. what we're looking to do is several things that the mayor and i have had the opportunity for a second time to meet with the families of our two murdered officers. we met with them at the hospital the night the officers were brought there after having been shot and then this morning spent time with them at their residents. would like to share with you an update.

i had a briefing with the detective who's are conducting the investigation and had an hour and half briefing this morning including the many videos gathered as part of that investigation. i want to compliment the detectives of this department and specifically those working on this investigation on the incredible amount of work they're putting into this case, the restretrieval of significan amount of video and tracking this individual minute by minute. we will look for additional assistance from the public, we have gaps to his activity in new york city so we will be looking for help closing those gaps. would also like to speak to funeral aranrangements for offir ramos, friday december 26, from 2:00 to 9:00 there will be

services, viewing services at the christ tabernacle church at 64-34 mertle avenue in glendale, new york. from 1400 in the afternoon to 9:00 in the evening. funeral services saturday, december 27th at 10 a.m. at christ tabernacle church at 64-34 mertle avenue in glendale, new york. we will put out notices to our colleagues around the country many who are planning to attend these services, i've received i can't even begin to describe the condolence messages i've been receiving from our colleagues around the country. we are very, very grateful for all of those. what i would like to do at this point in time is ask the mayor to come up and share with you both the experience with the families this morning and other

issues he'd like to speak with you about at this time. mr. mayor. >> thank you commissioner and your leadership in what has been a very difficult time for our city. we appreciate that you've been steadfast throughout. it say very painful journey for everyone to go from the hospital where the commissioner and i and so many others went to see our fallen officers, prayed over them, met the family members, you can only imagine what a family member is going through at that moment where their lives have suddenly been made unimaginable, everything they thought and believed would be part of their lives is suddenly gone. that night was painful for all of us. a lot of the people standing around me have been part of many nights like that. it is something you can never

get used to trying to console families who have lost so much. we followed up today by going out to each family's hope first to ramos family and then this the liu family. they are in tremendous pain and worried deeply. in the ramos family, two teenagers, they reminded me of my own children who now don't have a father. the ramos family is a close-knit, warm, large family, a family that really believes, they have a strong christian faith and strongly believe in public service. officer ramos was extraordinary proud to be a member of the nypd, and all of that is giving the ramos some ability to find strength in the middle of this pain. still you have two teenage good young men who no longer have a father because of an assassin. and it was very difficult for us

to talk to two kids that of course we saw the parallel to our own children and hear them try to put on a brave face, trying their best to make sense of such a painful situation. they were incredible admirable, impressive young men. i told them that i lost my own dad when i was 18. and that as painful and difficult as it is, families come together. people find a way forward. i also told them we would all be there for them. that the nypd family and the people of new york city and the family of new york would be there for them. and we will be. we went to see the wenjian liu family, they are feeling such a profound pain and fear. this was their only child. their only son. they feel distraut like so much of what they lived for is gone. his wife of only two months, i can't tell you how painful it is

to talk to a young woman who had just begun the beginning of a whole new life, was looking forward to building a whole new family and now her husband gone in an instant. they found strength in the other family members who were there. i want to the thank the nypd and colleagues in the federal government doing a fantastic job working to get other family members from china back so they can be in support through this incredibly difficult time. we just let them know tlas they are part of a larger family and that we would stand by them throughout. all i can say is this is a time for every new yorker to think about these families, focus on these families. put them first. we can do that by respecting their pain, respecting their time of mourning. i'm asking everyone, this is across the spectrum, to put aside protests, put aside

demonstrations until these funerals are passed. let's focus just on these families and what they have lost. i think that's the right way to try and build towards a more unified and decent city. i also think it is important to recognize we can't let these tragedies happen in the future whenever we have the power to do something about it, anyone who knows anyone who wants to harm a police officer needs to intervene anyway they can. this is another example. once this very troubled individual, a career-criminal, a troubled individual with a clearly deeply emotionally troubled past, once this individual posted on facebook his intention, anyone who sees that has the obligation to call the police immediately and report it. we can't take anything lightly.

we have learned as a society because of tragedies like 9/11 and everything since, we've learned if you see something say something. i've seen with my own eyes new yorkers quickly point out a bag left unintended. this is another thing we have to do in a social media age. any statements about violence towards the police need to be reported. the assassination of these two officers was an attack ever the city of new york as a whole and on our democracy. we can't tolerate such attacks. anyone with the ability to help stop them must step forward. so i just ask everyone in a season that is supposed to be a season of understanding and joy, remember the meaning of the season, but first and foremost remember what these families are going through, put them first.

commissioner. >> in reference to the liu family we are working to bring family members from china, once those family members arrive the family will be in a position to work on arrangements for the funeral services for their loved one. in terms of the issues that we have been dealing with and facing, i've had the opportunity to talk with the leadership of all five of our police unions in line with what the mayor has referenced asking that demonstrations and other forms of protests be put on hold until aafter the christmas holidays and after the funerals. that in discussion with the president of our five various unions they are standing down in respect for the fallen members until after the