release on christmas day. ♪ ♪ >> if that ain't a real story what is. >> okay let's do it. >> sony will now in fact show the interview. >> ceo of sony you heard from him over the weekend. >> we have not caved. we have not given in. we have persevered. we have not backed down. >> we got the interview. >> he says we have never given up on releasing the interview. >> i think they made a mistake. i wish they had spoken to me first. >> i think this is damage control. >> james franco tweeted this -- i'm in for alex wagner, six days after they decided to cancel the release of "the

interview" sony pictures allowed the film in some theaters after allful they released this quote. >> following sony's announcement today the lead actors both took to twitter in celebration. this news comes as new reports indicate that north korea has lost its internet after over nine hours of going completely dark yesterday.

nbc has not confirmed the reportsful. u.s. officials are denying involvement in yesterday's internet outage in north korea. state's department marie herj said little to nothing. >> i can't confirm it one way or another. i don't actually know that their internet was out and it's not for me to speak to. we're not going to entertain questions about possible u.s. responses of any kind. i would caution you have assuming that because i'm not going to comment on them that the answer means one thing or another. >> joining me now is media and entertainment reporter julia, any sense of how many theaters will show "the interview"? >> the five largest theater

chan chains in the nation originally pulled the movies from their screen. we reached out to see if they have changed their mind none of them have said they will show the movie. no change of plans. the 80% of theaters represented by those five chains are still not going to show the movie. we heard ten or twelve that are definitely going to show it on christmas day. we are expected up to 200 or 300 theaters that will show the film on christmas day. those announcements are just starting to trickle in. >> what got sony to this point of allowing a limited release? the president's response? >> i'm sure the president's comments had something to do with this. he said flat out he thought it was a mistake for sony to pull

it from the theaters. the there's been a huge response on twitter of movie goers saying they want to see the film. that gave sony confidence that they wouldn't be held liable. there were a lot of concerns after those terror threats. some did and they will. >> thank you. >> joining me now correspondent for the up shot at the new york time and contributor, josh, and former governor of vermont and forbes.com columnist. josh i want to ask do you think sony made the right decision allowing some stheet theaters to release the movie. >> i think belatedly they made the right decision after the

president shamed them in this press conference, the other thing he gave theater owners cover, if someone attacks the movie i will be both liable in the court of public opinion and possibly in civil court for any damages, now people can point to it and say the president told me to do this. so i think it was the right decision. this attack appears to be an attack on the united states. sony was the company attacked this time but it was the responsibility of the country has a whole to stand up to these foreign attacks. we can't expect sony to stand up to all of the costs. i think the president took on some of that role in the press conference and allowed some of this to happen. >> i'm curious what you think, the president, the public back lash? >> all of the above. let's look in the macro 30,000 foot level. sony was a company that was in deep distress and existence

could have been threatened by thisful the chief executive tweets looked awful, petty, if not racist. this was a horrible embarrassment, now the focus is on them as courage for the united states. some smart pr person must have told them to listen up. i'm guessing there was interaction between sony executives and the intelligence of the united states government giving them assurance that theaters were not going to bombed. part of this is a business decision on part of sony. for theater openers if we show this film and we have a multi film nobody is going to come to any of the films. so it was very complex. the right thing was done. we will be better at it next time. i think it is not only the right thing to do but essential to do it both for diplomatic and foreign policy reasons and to save sony. >> what do you think the

response will be to this decision in north korea or how might they react. >> the north koreans are not going to take this lying down. they probably will go after sony. we will see more embarrassing e-mail and other destruction of sony intellectual property. i think it will get ugly. also we will see some retaliation in the united states, it could be off shore or wherever. another thing they will go after the activists who will take the dvds and put them in balloons that fly in north korea. >> let me ask you about possible retaliation, and also what you know about yesterday 'internet outage in north korea. do you know if it was done by u.s. or another government maybe a group like anonymous, what do you think the reaction will be to that? >> i don't know who did it but i

have only one suspect. you don't need to be sherlock homes, this is probably the united states. the reason is there are only four suspects. people say north korea that is silly. others say china, not plausible. hackers is plausible but no one is taking responsibility and hackers always say i did it. so that really leaves the united states which has been gloating about this, talking about responses that the public won't see, we seen that theme for the last four days. it's us. >> uh-huh. let me ask josh and governor. just thinking about five years from now when we look back, will we see this as a turning point in terms of u.s. cyber security policy or foreign policy, is it a game changer moving forward or will we see it as a blip. >> i think it sends a signal that you don't have to just worry about electrical utilities

and financial if institutions. the white house indicated there are plans for what to do if someone takes down the power grid, no plan forum bear asing e-mails. if this was the north koreans they will use these tools for purposes other than protecting kim jong-un's ego. i certainly hope we will have a stronger response next time. i think it is too early to say whether this is a one off incident. >> i think it is a major turning point in a lot of ways. first of all this is a very val ublg lesson. valuable lesson. they could have gone after the power grid and for the first time policy makers will take this seriously. i'm sure the president is taking it seriously. i think congress is now. secondly i think this puts the

chinese in the hot spot. will be fascinated to see what gordon says. they have to make a choice. it has now come to the fact we are essentially in deep hostilityis with the north koreans they will retaliate and at some point chinese will realize north korea is much more of a liability than anything else and they now have to face that for the first time. >> on this point, you and the governor said retaliation what's that look like? >> it's going to get ugly. the president wants to avoides classificati es clags escalation but i think it is ineffitibvitable because s the way north korea operates. i don't believe they will break the mold they have set over the last several decades. if it was us, all of the tele communications and internet back grown for north korea goes

through china so if we attack north korea's internet we use chi china's back bone to attack their only ally. the chinese must be livid. >> so you're saying both north korea if they did this, and the u.s. if we did it, both have to go through china? >> in a sense, that's rightful right. because the chinese hackers, more than half are in china and these attacks were route the through chinese server addresses. the chinese saw all ever the data. a huntdred -- terra bytes. the chinese new what was going on. >> could this movie change american foreign policy or how will it? >> i think it will and i think the president who is now of course showing complete pend ens

of congress which is probably well over due, is now in a position to fundamentally readjust our foreign policy with cheena. china. it is not going to be easy because the folks in north korea are just as likely to annoy the chinese for the hell of it as they are to the united states. >> thank you gentleman for this substantive conversation. ahead, new reaction from the white house following sony's decision to show the interview in some theeaters. record breaking wall street numbers ahead. first calls for peace as nypd detectives learn more about the events leading up to the

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a grieving city and its mayor are making moves towards healing in the wake of assassination-style killing of two new york city police officers in brooklyn. this afternoon bill de blasio led a moment of silence at city hall three days to the minute after the killing of ramos and wenjian liu and a makeshift memorable was made at the site where the officers were killed. we have new video of moments just after ismaaiyl brinsley opened fire.

yesterday his sister spoke out saying her brother was disturbed. >> he was an emotionally troubled young man. clearly something's wrong. he should have been offered help. in the system. >> but he wasn't. >> right but he wasn't. >> meanwhile pat lynch who said the mayor has blood on his hands for the officer's death is agreeing with the mayor that politics should be put on hold until wenjian liu and ramos are laid to rest. >> after we do that and everyone has a moment to think, we're going to ask the question, why did this happen, who caused it, what inflamed it, and they should be held responsible. >> as for protesters, not all want to take time out. more protesters are planned for 5:00 p.m. in new york as another case is raising questions about police accountability. the justice department will investigate the fatal shooting

of dante hamilton who grabbed the batan of officer christopher who shot him at least 13 times. prosecut prosecutor said officer operated in self defense and will face no charges. thank you both of our guests for joining us. >> thank you for having us. >> i know you are urging the justice department to broaden its investigation into the milwaukee police department, how do you see yesterday's decision in the context of broader discussions the country has had about pleasing? >> i you know i was very disappointing with district attorney's decision to not charge officer manning. but i heard every single word that he said, i read his report, and i understand how he got there. based on the past practices and

procedures, long standing practices of the milwaukee police department where they are given wide discretion in these cases and where there is no obligation whatsoever to try to deescalate once there's a threat. that their training allows them to shoot until the threat is stopped. and i think that the justice department ought to come in not only because the hamilton, we have seen this, i can go all the way back to earnest lacy and daniel bell, and we think there is something systemically wrong with the way our police operate and the training that they engage inful. >> let me ask you in terms of those past practices and systemically wrong practices

that you just said, as you know it will were protests yesterday in wisconsin and more planned for this afternoon in new york, do you think the protesters need to take a pause or change their tone? >> you know we're not in new york. i think i did take a moment of silence today as i watched television. this is milwaukee. we're not in new york. you know, the mayor has asked for that in new york. but here in milwaukee, people are continuing to protest. and i support people's first amendment rights to protest. the family in milwaukee wants that support at this time. because they want to elevate the cause of mr. hamilton. you know mr. hamilton, what we have learned from the district attorneys not charging is that in milwaukee there is absolutely no right. we believe in people's civil

rights are breached. there's a very, very low bar with our police department in terms of supporting and reenforcing people's civil rights and we think that the justice department needs to come in and look at this. >> uh-huh. >> hamilton was lying on a bench, aing taking in the summ sun, and he was fired by police chief flynn because we feel the officer escalated the situation beyond what was necessariful necessary. we was breaking a law and based on the broken window theory where you prosecute every public case. this man was sleeping in a public park during the day breaking the law and this situation escalated from him sleeping in the park until him becoming killed, unfortunately.

and so we think the patterns and practices of the police department ought to be examined so that we can come together and really look at whether or not the police have any obligation to do something to preserve people's civil rights during these arrests. >> i want to move to the broader national conteflt. national contecht. national context. what does this moment mean for the broader message. >> i think it means there's a lot more work to be done in their minds. proeft protesters are sad that these officers have been killed, they say this still needs to be a further conversation. when there are more and more names adding to the list of unarmed black men being killed it is a special moment in

history where people's names are continuously being added, why are people being killed that are doing nothing to deserve a death penalty. there needs to be conversations that targeting police officers are horrible and this idea that this can't be something where people turn violent. i think the same time the protesters at the forefront are really just as much kerped abco about the violence against police officers or ordinary citizens. they don't want to see police officers shot, also don't want to see unarmed black men shot. >> thank you both for being with us. >> thank you. coming up gresmen michael grim pleaded guilty to tax fraud a few hours ago. what happens to him now? we'll bring you that next. coverage that's smaller or less reliable when only one network is america's largest and most reliable 4g lte network: verizon.

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we have reports of a tornado touchdown in mississippi. with significant damage but no confirmed injuries. we will continue to follow this story as we get more details. this afternoon, new york's congressman michael grim pleaded guilty to one count of tax fraud that could land him up to three years in jail. nancy pelosi is the first member to call for his resignation. he was indicted in april on 20 counts of tax evasion accused of hiding more than $1 million of sales and wages at a restaurant he owned.

co-owned. remember this exchange in january when he threatened it throw new york one reporter off a capitol balcony. grimm's hometown paper report says despite the guilty plea he may not serve jail time due to years of service. all eyes now turn to house speaker john boehner. joining me now hunter walker. were you surprised he plans to keep his seat and get back to wrork. >> i don't think anybody who knows michael grimm is surprised

to see him want to fight. he is infamously combative. i had a former rival of his tell me they thought he was on steroids because his behavior during their race was crazy. so he's a fighter. the question is whether the decision will be up to him in the end. >> speaking of that all eyes now on house speaker john boehner what is the speaker going to do in this situation? >> there's two ways of thinking. he's all about this new american congress that he wants to brand in the coming year aft midterm victories but nancy pelosi set up a contest between the two of them. senior aid told me didn't knock -- >> let me read this. that was boehner spokesman

michael steele. you said not until june? >> his sentencing is not until june. >> so we will wait that long? >> what i have heard from experts if he gets a jail sentence he could legally stay in congress but as a practical matter they will remove him. but short of that, in the meantime boehner has options to put pressure on him. >> what options. >> he could strip him of seniorit and committee appointments, that would make it less fun to be in congress. also he could be expelled. so the big question is what leadership decides to do. >> so let me read a quote from an article today. so should it be up to the voters? >> well, ultimately, it will.

if michael grimm is removed there will be a special econo . election. but this one of the five crucial races for democrats. this is the last republican seat in new york city. so boehner wants to be careful not to make a decision that hurts the republican candidate in a future race. >> i want to go back to speaker boehner because he has several instances where he did push people to resign. in 2014 he pressured representative from florida to resign after got caught buying cocaine from a federal agent. and pushes new york to resign of photos on the internet. 2010 boehner pushed a man to resign after an affair with aid so what is different in this case. >> doesn't mean they will do the

same thing here, they want to call attention to something bad nancy pelosi did. ultimately the republicans distancing them self from grimm makes sense. stanten i'll still have a big republican constituenconstituen. >> in the last election grimm got 55% over his opponent. how might the race look. >> there's a whole other investigation we haven't had a chance to talk about. him having that huge victory despite the legal clouds shows how republican this area is. they have two leading candidates, nicole maliatokis and also dan donovan, the da in the eric garner case.

the controversy might be an as set. >> a lot to watch and we will draw on you to help interpret all of this. thank you very much. after the break, we'll get reaction from president on sony's course of action. next on "now."

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said sony had made a mistake in pulling the movie. joining me now nbc news white house correspondent. what's the white house saying about this decision? >> well, good afternoon, not surprisingly, the white house is celebrating in decision. i'll read a statement we just got from white house spokesman. who writes in part -- now this comes as questions abound about who is behind that internet outage in north korea that we saw yesterday and for a few hours today. administration officials say flatly it wasn't the united states but the official word from the white house and state department are simply declining to commentful. to comment. one official said don't read too

much into that. they just don't want to get into a back and forth with north korea. conversations continue about how to respond to the north korea cyber attack against sony and as president obama mentioned among the options is putting north korea back on the terror list. it was taken off in 2008 when president bush was trying to strike a deal with north korea. that deal is off. the question is what would it mean. increased economic and trade sanctions and some say more of a political message then anything else because there's so many sanctions already that the united states has imposed against north korea. some republicans are calling for a strong response including republican ed who is set to introduce legislation that would

hit north korea banch banking sector, believing that will get their attention. that's the debate here. of course president obama continues his vacation here in hawaii where he will continue to get briefed on the options about responding to north korea. >> i want to change gears to the other big story we're covering, you are getting new information about the funeral about rafael ramos, can you tell us about what you know. >> that's right. just moments ago, the chokspoke confirmed president obama confirmed vice president biden attend the funeral for officer ramos. that's going to happen, he will attend that funeral with dr. jill biden. we anticipate we will get more details about his travel plans throughout the day. a significant move president

obama asking vice president biden to attend that funeral. he will in fact be there on saturday. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. just in time for christmas we'll spread the holiday cheer. good news on wall street and main street as well. that's next on "now." my name's louis, and i quit smoking with chantix. i had tried to do it in the past. i hadn't been successful. quitting smoking this time was different because i got a prescription for chantix. along with support, chantix (varenicline)

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before she left us to go on vacation alex wagner sat with lawrence odonnell. >> every day millions of children in africa face a prospect of education without basic classroom resources like desks or chairs. often forced to read and write while sitting on the floor. beginning in 2010 our anchor teamed up with inland con funder stands for kids in need of desk, since then the program has raised over $8 million and

distributed over 108,000 desks and another 20,000 currently in production. today three out of five students in malawi are without a desk or chair down from 4 out of 5 students without a desk just five years ago. that's all thanks to the generation donations of the kind program. joining me now the great wonderful generous lawrence odonell. >> is this is all thanks to the m msnbc audience. we have no other vehicle to raise money for the kind fund. without this network there would be nothing. >> for those that don't know, how did you come to be involved in the program? >> it was a sort of accidental thing. a friend of mine had just returned from africa and she runs a charter school in boston

in my old nabeighborhood and i s helping her and she said when she toured african school in malawi in particular she asked all teachers what do you need and the number one answer was chairs. they couldn't actually having chairs and desks. by the way the teachers stand for seven hours a day in these classrooms with no chairs at all. and so, the notion of chairs and desks, well, that would be too lavish. so there was just that one word, chairs, that's all they said. when i heard this i found myself saying well we could get them chairs. >> right. >> and i had never under taken anything like this so i had a week coming up that summer where i could do anything and i decided i'm going to go over there and figure this out and by the time i went there with the

executive producer of this show the great dana howler who guided me on my first trip there kind of remote controlled me from new york she did all the research and i thought i would only come back with nothing more than an explanation of why there were no desks and chairs until literally one day on the street in the capitol city of malawi i found a hard wear store with the guidance of unisef and in the back of that store there were people who knew how to make desks and chairs and we had them make 30 of them in one week and took it to one classroom. we took that picture and came back and told that story in early december. it was just the timing of it, i didn't mean for it to coincide with christmas but i showed that picture of transforming the one

classroom and the generosity power poured out from the audience. $40,000 -- that's amazing. the first classroom was literally cash out of my pocket. anything more would be fantastic. >> it is important to mention the desks are made in malawi. >> that was really important to me. we could have gone to some school supply warehouse in new jersey and shipped them over, but this is the first dollar we spend in malawi is a jobs program. we're hiring carpenterers and welders and more than 400 perfect now, some factories that didn't exist prior to this program to those workers can

feed their kids and pay some of the high school tuition fees for some of their kids because high school is not free in their public school system is which is why we created the girl's scholarship program because within that culture it is more likely if you have a son he will get the money you have to pay for going to high school and the girls won't. so you have a 7% completion rate of high school for girls in malawi and they definitely need the extra financial backing to be able to go. we started that a couple years ago and now have raised over a million dollars for the girls tuition. >> amazing. >> which is fantastic you need to say to a girl, yes we have the money to take you through every one of these years not just the first year, we'll be here the second and third, we'll get you all the way. there's nothing more inspiring than talking to these girl who's i know when i'm talking to them,

they're in this school because of the money that this audience has given them. and they don't know that. they know that someone came up with the scholarship money but they don't know where is it came from necessarily. and they talk about their ambitions and what they want to be. and it's 90% of them will say teacher or nurse. because those are actually the only educated professions for girls that they have ever seen a woman in or really almost any person. in some of these villages, the only professional person they've ever seen is a teacher because they don't wonder outside the village and made have never seen a nurse in that village. you have to go to bigger towns to see a nurse and have interaction. >> you are literally changing a society. >> i could go on and on. >> and we want to have you son over and over again. you are changing society one chair, one desk at a time. >> it is a humble ambition. the ambition is simply to make

that kid physically more comfortable during those six hours. >> critical hours. >> if it does more than that, which it can, then that's if fantastic. >> the secret sort of story in all of this is that lawrence has a heart of gold which everybody knows but is made very evident. >> you're the only one who doubts it. >> no. no. i want everyone to share and bask in the warm glow of your golden heart. thank you lawrence for everything you're doing. >> thank you. we also want to mention a cause closer to home and one near and dear to this show, the owsley county food backpack program, one of the poorest in the nation where more than half of children are living in poverty and dependent on free throw school meals to survive we have raised over $20,000 for the program. if you would like to donate

visit msnbc.com/backpack. meanwhile continuing to watch breaking news on tornado activity in southern mississippi. several take shelter warnings have been issued. there is significant damage. in louisiana a tornado touched down in tangipahoa county. we'll bring you more as we get it. looking for a little suppor. what you get is a game of a thousand questions. was it raining? were your flashers on? was there a dog with you? by the time you hang up you're convinced the accident was your fault. then you remember; you weren't even in the car. at liberty mutual we make filing a claim as stress-free as possible. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance don't settle for 4g lte coverage that's smaller

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that's something from star trek. he also poked fun at senate colleagues and worked at the oddest presidential teetzer. teaser this season. of course everyone has to be themselves. i had my own style. i think this would be a popular item this year. yes that's a black turtleneck emblazened with rand paul 201. fashion state or statement of intent. we'll get back to you as soon as we're done googling more photos of tribble. that's all for "now." "the ed show" is up next. and a good tuesday evening. welcome to the "the ed show" live from new york. we start tonight with news that land mark buildings around new

york will dim their lights at 9:00 this evening in honor of wenjian liu and ramos the two nypd officers killed. meanwhile ismaaiyl brinsley was seen in a brooklyn mall mid day before the incident. please believe he was carrying a gun in that plastic bag. police want any information to contact them immediately. mayor bill de blasio held a moment of silence at 2:47 this afternoon the precise moment officers wenjian liu and ramos were gunned down. >> talking to the families hearing what motivated these young men to serve, it is humbling and reminds us we have to keep serving and working for something