christmas by what you receive. judge yourself by what you give. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a merry christmas. "hardball" starts right now. barack obama, ready for his close-up. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. president obama scores another big day. sony pictures gets a bad day. remember last week when sony said they had to kill its movie about killing the head of north korea because the theaters wouldn't show it? well, "the washington post" reports that claim is untrue. some theaters were ready to show the film. it was sony that refused to let them. again, that's what the post is

reporting today. so once again, in a winning streak that began with china and climate change and extended through immigration, and last week's historic decision to send an american ambassador to havana, re-opening diplomatic relations with cuba, president obama has a hot hand. editor at large with the hollywood reporter. and was a reporter for "the washington post." ted johnson, as we all know now is senior editor at variety. today sony announced it will release "the interview" on christmas day in as many as several hundred theaters. sony's ceo put out a statement bearing what seems to me very hard to believe. >> quote, we have never given up on releasing "the interview." and we're excited our movie will be in a number of theaters on christmas day. at the same time, we're continuing our efforts to secure more platforms and theaters so that this movie reaches the

largest possible audience. we are proud to make it available to the public and to have stood up to those who attempted to suppress free speech. unbelievable. here's the white house reaction, which carries more than a bit of irony. the president applause sony's decision to authorize screenings of the film. as the president made clear, we are a country that believes in free speech and the right of artistic expression. the decision made by sony and participating theaters allows people to make their own choices about the film, and we welcome that outcome. sony said they were going to kill the movie, now say we're continuing with our plans to show it on christmas day as if nothing happened. and there's the president applauding them as if they hadn't changed their mind. what kind of a kabuki dance is this? >> it's exactly that. sony has been on the back foot since the beginning. the original sin of the studio

and having made the movie. and now it's been one thing after another where sony doesn't really seem to know what it wants to say. michael lynton went on the air and said, we can't show the movie. we didn't cave. the theaters would show it and they are going to show it. >> this is more embarrassing. used to say that about john kerry, i was for it, i was against it. flip-flopping, we know, in washington is the worst possible decision. they say if you take a position on something that's morally tricky like abortion rights, stick to that decision. don't be flipping all over the place like the new fish in the boat. do what you believe and stick to that, people will find a way to respect it in some way. but flipping around like this, you look like a loser. your thoughts? >> well, it was just confusion last week when sony originally announced this decision.

the best that i can think is that sony in saying we're not going to show this movie thought they could end this crisis right there and not really thinking, what were the long-term consequences. not thinking that the creative community in hollywood would be outraged by this. not thinking that the president would come out with a statement and say, hey, sony, you made a mistake here and looking back, you know, president obama really did have to say that, because otherwise he risks looking weak to north korea. but i don't think that the studio really looked at the long-term -- >> are these guys too young to remember munich? too young to even remember reagan's deal with the iranians to send them weapons? that cost reagan 20 points permanently. munich cost us the war. don't they know that looking for appeasers is bad publicity? >> i will say this -- >> don't they know, in all

fairness? >> very small. they were in the middle of a devastating hack attack. they were completely obviously flummoxed as to what to do about it. their employees' social security numbers, their employees' children's social security numbers, their insulting comments about stars and private e-mails -- >> and the adam sandler -- none of these criticisms were surprising. >> they are not surprising, but nobody says those things publicly, but now they're on the record. so sony tried to look like they were forced to pull the movie and nobody bought it. >> with the president, who i normally support, there's no clear chain of command. is there somebody at the studio where the stop person makes the decision, a john wayne kind of approach.

pr people are trying to figure out what sounds good. >> bear in mind, this is the only studio that's owned by a japanese company. so there are people in tokyo, who are miles away, culturally and geographically from the studio and they've been hands off. they did express concern, but generally speaking, that studio has been left to do a lot of things that no other studio would do. >> let me ask you a question. could it have been that they put their thumb on the scale in putting out a movie, green lighting a movie which is really sticking it to the north koreans? and we're going to have your head plblown up on the movie screen. >> they were obviously very nervous about it, and they made a decision to allow the studio -- you know, they have this notion about how americans do it and what we do with talent and do we let a movie star have their way? they let him do it and it blew up. i maintain no other studio would have done it in the first warne

murdoch, nobody would have made this mess. >> the decision to pull it, then a decision to blame it on the theaters, then saying we might get to it someday, and then today, we're going to go with it. we'll put it out on christmas day which is two days away. so they'll get it to the theaters. it's available. >> well, again, i have to think that it finally got to a situation where japan, sony in japan just said let's try to get rid of this thing. let's try to get rid of this crisis. in japan, i think your view of north korea is a lot different than your view in the united states. so we were talking about how this project got approved. i think, you know, here it was probably a lot easier to say, oh, isn't this a funny movie? in japan, they probably had a very different view of it, yet the parent company still prides itself on giving their

subsidiaries, sony pictures entertainment, this degree of latitude, to do what they want. now, the problem now for sony is that there is all this bad blood between the studio and the exhibitors because of what went on last week. because they were essentially trying to shift blame on the movie theaters for backing out of this. >> before we run out of time on this topic, i'm fascinated by your commercial judgments, first, kim. i would think that every guy in his 20s, maybe late teens, guys mainly will go to this out of macho. they'll find the theaters, go there, pack it in, some people will say, i'm nervous about this, but i think the guys, i'd like to think american guys and some girls, women, young people are going to say, damn it, i'm going to show these people and i'm going to have some fun. will they pack the little houses? >> they'll pack the little

houses, but it's not going to help sony. >> i'm happy with the testerone showing mere. i think the young guys in groups of four for strength. i just have a sense that it's going to be a packed visit to the movie theater. your thoughts? >> oh, yeah. i think this is going to get a lot of attention than it otherwise would have gotten. but as kim just pointed out, we're talking about just several hundred theaters, not in the thousands, not this wide release -- >> yeah, but once everybody goes to see it and tells their buddies what a wild-ass movie it is, i would think the next weekend it would go exponential. >> people are going to go because it's an event. >> two great movies i saw. i just saw "wildlife," it was great. i really liked the imitation game. >> you and members of the academy. >> what do you think about those two flicks?

>> the wild i haven't seen yet. the imitation game, i thought it was really well done. tough story to put on screen. but you came away and you admired account that was put together. >> so much better than "unbroken." i'm sorry, it didn't make it. it wasn't feminine or masculine, i didn't know what i was watching. it was a great book. >> don't forget boyhood. >> i saw it at the nantucket film festival. loved it. thank you both for coming on. i do the difference between women and young girls. i'm talking about young people. >> chiming in there. >> please believe me. anyway, ted johnson, thank you, s

coming up. pope francis calls out the church. plus, who made the naughty list this year. you bet it's cheney, and this is "hardball," the place for politics.

>> staten island congressman pleaded guilty to federal tax evasion. the republican from new york was set to stand trial on february on charges that he hid a million dollars in sales and wages obtained from his manhattan restaurant. today's plea means he'll be sentenced on june 8, could face up to 30 months in prison, which is lower than he would have faced. back in october, u.s. congressman grimm said he would step down if he was not able to serve. and the dccc is calling for his resignation. that's the democratic campaign committee. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip.

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billion catholics. they lobbied for the deal. the vatican hosted the final meeting in the two sides that led to the breakthrough. last wednesday the pope celebrated his 78th birthday, thousands danced a tango in the square, because he comes from argentina. this week, he blasted the church's hierarchy, calling it a sick body. it was a sort of state of the union speech for the church itself. this headline says it all. pope frannis, merry christmas you power-hungry hypocrites. amazing stuff. he's nbc's jim masseda. >> in his traditional christmas speech, the pope lashed out at the vatican bureaucracy, calling it a sick body, hypocrite cal, arrogant and out of touch. at times, the cardinals in the room look stunned by the pope's scathing indictment. in the past he used a softly, softly approach, but this time he came down like a ton of

bricks. >> it got worse. francis claiming as if some had spiritual alzheimer's, blinded by worldly goods, forgetting why they became priests. >> strong stuff. joan, you never in the seminary, but editor at large of salon and an msnbc analyst. i'm struck, they go after the great cardinal law from boston, who is hiding over there still after his embarrassments and covering up the hell up in boston with the priests. they got a whooping today from the pope. he called them out and said they're spirtially alzheimer's victims, calling them hypocrites for leading dual lives. all kinds of stuff. and they're sitting there like the convicted. >> they did. he's speaking to cardinal law and all the cardinals who hit

the sexual abuse scandal and they protected one another rather than young children and their parishioners. so it's a message that we find shocking and bracing. it shows that this pope feels he's meeting bureaucracy within the bureaucracy. and take some severe the harshness out. he's really modeling what he's been saying since he became pope. which is catholics are supposed to lead a life modeling the love of christ, where they show. he lectured them, but because he feels they lost sight of what the message of christ was, and they're into power and gossip and intrigue. >> you nailed it all. the gossip part grabbed me. it's like a high school description of kids talking about who is doing what and who likes who and who doesn't. >> it's a very insular culture. and he knows it very well, having grown up into it,

becoming a priest, bishop, and now pope. i think he is seeing how much it tears away from exactly the things that joan was talking about. you can't deal with abuse in the church. whether it's physical, money, whatever type of abuse it is, if you're so concerned about your position and your station. so this pope -- >> and fancy clothes. >> so this pope is deconstructing that. one of the things they teach you when you center the seminary is giving back to other. and being a sign of contradiction in the world. in other words, you're supposed to live contra the world, not in it, not of it, but be against those things that draw people away from christ. >> that's one of the reasons we have profit assistantestants. among the ailments, excess ef mel an kolia, producing a

pessimism of fear and insecurity. said we should never forget how much good is done with a healthy sense of humor. he was meaning that solemn look you get in a church, everybody's so solemn and down, because it shows that you're deeply p remorseful. >> it's the language of a novelist. it's really the detail that a novelist would bring to a great story about the vatican. he's got the soul of an artist. he's really in touch with things on a lot of different layers. and you know, yes, i think that a lot of catholics are more focused on hell than they are heaven. and they're more focused on rules than they are joy. and people dancing the tango for his birthday is a perfect -- this pope doesn't seem like someone who's turned against life and turned against joy and

turned against what it means to be human. he embraces it all. >> yeah, well, he is a latin. he comes from argentina. anyway, the pope's had a big year. as i said, he played a maj role in the historic breakthrough between united states and cuba. pope francis is being credited for sending letters to president obama and castro in cuba and hosting a meeting between the two sides in october. earlier he made these comments. quote, got is not a magician, but the creator who brought everything to life. evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation. because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve. in the summer he met with victims of sexual abuse by priests and asked for forgiveness. i expressed my sorrow for the sins and grave crimes of clerical sexual abuse committed against you. a humbly ask forgiveness.

last year the pope said this about gay priests. if someone is gay and searching for the lord and has good will, who am i to judge? that's the great statement. because i think people are born gay. the question is, if you're born gay, god made you. >> i think this pope is really trying to give us a focus on the humanity of the individual, not how they live their lives, not about the choices they make. we're not put here to judge. we were put here to lead back to christ. i think that's what this pope is trying to get the clerics in the church, starting with the bishops, the hierarchy to understand. you cannot preach openness to the world when you yourself are closed off from it. i think that's a very important message this christmas season by this pope. >> boy do i want him to last, don't you, joan? >> a long, long life. >> thanks so much, merry christmas to you both. up next, a rough road ahead to repair the relationship between new york city police

officers and mayor de blasio. those wounds run deep and we're learning more each out. reports that de blasio's team, members of his own police detail, were spying on him during last year's campaign. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable.

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>> you point out to me one mayor that has not been battling with the police unions in the last 50 years? name one. name one. so the experience of this mayor, in terms of some cops not liking him is nothing new. it's part of life, it's part of politics. >> back to "hardball." that's new york police commissioner bill bratton defending mayor bill de blasio in a joint press conference yesterday. the mayor is struggling to mitigate the backlash from the police community. today he visited the memorial for the two slain officers out in brooklyn and is calling for a political ceasefire until they're laid to rest.

the backlash from the nypd was apparent following the assassination saturday when officers turned their backs to the mayor as he visited the hospital where the victims, the two police officers were pronounpr pronounced dead. it culminated when the leader of the police union said this. >> there's blood on many hands tonight. that blood on the hand starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor. >> well, some people distrust de blasio and that goes back to his campaign. politico is reporting tensions ran both away. quote, according to a former de blasio aide, during the campaign in 20 alternate, de blasio's team was convinced that members of his police detail were eavesdropping on his private conversations in his city-assigned car. things got so bad that de blasio would step into the street to make sure he was out of ear shot

of those protecting him. joining us now, harold ford, former u.s. congressman of tennessee. and marq claxton director of the black law enforcement alliance. marq, do you think de blasio is responsible personally for the rhetoric that made police officers feel he was on the other side from them? >> no, absolutely not. as a matter of fact, much of the rhetoric is par for the course given the history of new york relationships between the police unions and city hall. nothing new. the rhetoric is much more amped up and the timing of some of the rhetoric, including the blood on the hands comment, really was ill-timed by pat lynch, but it's par for the course. this has been a long-standing tradition in new york, between the police unions and city hall. >> let me go to harold ford.

it seems to me there's a zero sum attitude. you're either for the people in the streets protesting, or you're for the police. pretty dramatic. >> there's no doubt about it. i think officer claxton and i don't know his rank. i don't mean to give him the proper respect, but he probably has a better answer than i do. the citizen, there's broad concern of the relationship between the rank and file police and this mayor. and it could have an impact on public safety. i'm reassured to hear from officer claxton that obviously there's a history here and i intercepted commissioner bratton's comments when he talked about the difference between the mayor's office and the police, being with wages and benefits. but the citizen, there's a sense that this frayed relationship between city hall and the police force could begin to have an impact.

unfortunately have an impact on the way policing is done across the city. one of the things that an officer said to me, someone i'm close to, a retired officer said to me, one of of the things they should do is look at retiring this notion of quota. the fact that officers have to engage in and perhaps that plays some role in the unfortunate interaction between law enforcement and some members of the community across new york city. >> well, let me ask you, do you want to follow up on that, officer? >> sure. sure, absolutely. the quota system has driven a lot of the divide in the communities. and i have to reiterate this again. and i want to make this point really strongly. the pba themselves, their own board, has indicated their opposition to quotas, to the use of stop and question and frisk, a direct law enforcement strategy. they're well documented. as a matter of fact, they made

mention of this most recently at one of their press conferences, they referred to it. so stop and frisk, stop, question and frisk and the quota system is part of a larger discussion that needs to be had about what damage there is to police-community relations when you engage in this kind of targeted law enforcement strategy. >> thank you very much. merry christmas to you fellas. up next, jim left against hillary clinton. we've seen hillary clinton allies launch an assault after he began to lay the ground work for a run at the oval office. could he be the biggest obstacle between clinton, the former secretary of state, and the presidency? stick around for that fight. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. she inspires you.

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>> -- will attend the funeral for rafael ramos. he will laid to rest on

saturday. arrangements for his colleague, wenjian liu, are still being made. tonight the lights at "30 rock" will be dimmer to honor the officers who were shot in their patrol car. and two people are dead in mississippi following tornadoes. crews are still assessing damage in the affected areas. now back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." jim webb, remember that name, former virginia senator who is running for president in 2016, could present a unique challenge for hillary clinton in the democratic primary. webb's anti-war positions, especially when it comes to iraq, could give some of those democratic voters, who bristle at hillary clinton's hawkish positions, a place to go. a column in today's "new york times" headlined, the real threat to hillary clinton, lays out her vulnerabilities against a candidate like webb. they say, quote, jim webb has to become a serious candidate.

at that point, hillary clinton would find him much more complex than dealing with liberals. he's not a liberal. but a lot of what he says might appeal to liberals. he does not get carried away by humanitarian intervention. which means, don't go to war in iraq or libya. webb's appeal is summed up neatly. attracting anti-war progressives and conservative-minded southern white men whom he believes the party can win back. his credo is as simple as it is persuasive. rather than squander power and resources, america should rebuild. i'm joined by the "hardball" roundtable, howard fineman, msnbc contributor, maria theresa kumar and washington correspondent for the philadelphia tribune. take this on on. hillary clinton has never been able to properly explain why she did support the iraq war,

knowing everything everybody else knew, and a lot of liberals knew what she knew and said, knowing that, i'm against the war. >> chris, you said earlier in the show that the worst place to be in politics is to look like a flip-flopper, look like you're in the boat changing sides. the fact is, hillary clinton after much agonizing and i was in the gallery watching her give her speech, supported the resolution that led to the war in iraq. she had all kinds of complex reasons for doing it, but she did it. and in the book she wrote just last year, or earlier this year, she said, you know, after a lot of thought and a lot of evidence in the intervening decade, i realize i made a mistake. >> she thought she wanted war with iran? a mistake means you do something wrong, you give the gift at christmas time to the wrong person. what was the mistake? she did what she wanted to do. >> yes, i know she did what she wanted to do at the time. but because of the fact that she's running again for president, i think everybody is convinced, she trimmed her sails

and that's what got people like webb interested in this. >> you know what hillary clinton is getting good at, she's a hard-working, good, smart person. she's good at last year's questions, but when is she going to get good at next week's questions? bill clinton could be slippery, but he would have an answer that wouldn't get him in trouble, necessari necessarily. i think she played the smart move. being for the war in 19 -- 2002 thinking, was the smart thing. she represents new york, that makes sense. a lot of people are pro-israeli, wored about anything in that region. she also knew that supporting wars has a better track record for people running for president than being doves. >> that's right. but her challenge, she comes off as not wanting to go off script. so when webb comes forth and says, i think what we did was wrong at the war, he's talking fresh speak and that's what the

americans are going to look for. i think he's going to have a hard time talking frankly to folks when it comes to this issue. she doesn't want to say she made a mistake. >> she did, though. >> but she doesn't want to look like a flip-flopper. he is going to attract southern white men who don't want to vote for hillary. i think she's going to have a tough time. >> my argument is she had information more than we had. she had access to the intelligence communities, if she wants to get information, she can get it. >> right. >> if she thought for a second that iraq had nuclear weapons, or was about to have them, she didn't tell us. she made a judgment like we all did. she made a judgment for the war and most of us said no. >> i'm trying to wrap my head around how realistically jim webb expects that he'll be the next nominee.

>> iowa is a dovish state. let's talk about what damage he can do. iowa is pretty isolationist. i don't know -- >> i think -- [ all speak at once ] >> can he raise the argument -- >> people think he's going to be like this new john mccain. i don't know if people really want that, unless they want to return back to the old white man model who is hawkish as well as far as president. they've had their fill of eight years of barack obama. >> i think he could be more like the ross perot or howard dean, where he brings a lot of folks that are turned off by hillary. >> you're focusing on his aura of authenticity. but let's talk about who he is. he's a military man. he was serving in the military when rand paul was worshipping the aqua buddha in college -- [ laughter ] that makes him a different kind of isolationist, chris. or somebody who's skeptical of war. because he comes at it from a

200-year tradition of mountain fighting people that he wrote a whole book about. >> he's an expert on -- [ all speak at once ] >> he wrote a book about the scotch rish in the mountains of southern ap latchia. he said i'm a warrior, from the warrior class -- >> you're scaring me. you are. [ laughter ] [ all speak at once ] >> that's a great tradition. the warrior who -- it's war, whether it's eisenhower or whether it'sities ak rabin or saddam. >> presidential contests are beauty pageants. 2008, mccain, barack obama. you go for the guy on aarp, or the guy on the cover of gq. even though voters want authenticity, at the end of the day, jim webb, got a lot of respect for him, but he's this gravely-voiced serious dude -- >> i'm sorry, charles. you were not around when gary

hart upset walter mondale in every primary. or that mcgovern knocked off the guy who couldn't be beat. [ all speak at once ] >> it's not -- the threat to hillary clinton from jim webb, if there's going to be one, is not going to be in iowa. it's going to be in new hampshire. because jim webb's profile, as a sort of vaguely libertarian yet conservatively social in some respects, skeptic of military involvement, but an authentic guy with a military background, that's perfect for new hampshire. and new hampshire is the place where it's easy to vote in the other party's primary. part of this is premised on the idea that white conservative men will vote in democratic primaries. the only place to do that, new hampshire and maybe south carolina. >> the hillary people, run of the runners, putting the word

out he's nuts. are they going to keep that up? >> i don't agree with the plemis of the article in the "new york times." i think jim webb pushing hillary to the left would be great for her in the primary. >> absolutely. >> but it isn't clear. the problem with him, what makes him difficult to run against, he's going to run from the left and the right simultaneously. >> it's interesting. >> thank you. the roundtable is sticking around. we're going to issue the naughty and nice list, which normally would be kind of childish if not juvenile, but this year, it does seem to fit. there are good people out there this year, and some really bad people. the "hardball" naughty and nice list is coming up in about a minute. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

the u.s. economy received an early christmas present last quarter with a big boost from consumers. growing at its fastest rate since 2003. the dow jones closed for the first time in history above 18,000 points. don't the republicans like this? anyway, the government says the economic boost is thanks to consumer spending on health care. doesn't hurt that americans have a few more bucks in their pocket with falling gas prices. we'll be right back.

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we're back with our roundtable, this is the last show before christmas. although it will be a while before politicians will have to account for themselves again to voters, here's a "hardball" account now. we begin with the naughty list. at the top of that is the man who not only has no remorse for the use of torture, even on some people who turned out to be innocent, but he says he would do it again in a minute, of course. i'm talking about former vice president dick cheney who after all was in charge of all intelligence operations in the bush administration. let's watch him in defense. >> i was prepared and we did, we got the authorization from the president, and authorization from the justice department to go forward with the program. it worked. it worked now for 13 years, we've avoided another mass casualty attack against the

united states. we captured bin laden and a lot of senior guys who were responsible for the attack on 9/11. i'll do it again in a minute. >> but torture made them talk, he's saying and gave us information we needed, but it wasn't torture. it was painful enough to get the information, but it wasn't torture, but really painful. >> you can criticize dick cheney for pushing a bad policy about going to war in iraq, lots of questions about whether we should. about pushing the torture strategy, which he did. about whether it was effective and there are many questions about that. what i fault him for in this year, since we're talking about bad people for this year, is his utter lack of nuance. it's as though he wants to say, i'm going to wade through the blood. it's almost a sort of russian novel kind of thing that he's into and i think it doesn't serve him well. it doesn't serve the course of the country well. >> but isn't that his public personality? >> yes, that's who he's become.

i don't think he was always that way. i think he's resigned himself to some kind of martyrdom which is crazy. >> here's chris christie, he's made an art form of confronting and yelling at his own constituents, which has landed him on our naughty list. let's watch him in action. >> after you graduate from law school, you conduct yourself like that in a courtroom, your rear end is going to get thrown in jail, idiot. >> let me tell you this, it's people who raise their voices and yell and scream like you that are dividing this country. we're here to bring this country together, not to divide it. >> i've been here when the cameras aren't here, buddy and done the work. >> damn, man, i'm governor, could you just shut up for a second, you know. >> sit down and shut up! [ cheers and applause ] >> when they yell and scream at me, you know, some days i sit and listen and take it and give

a reasonable answer and response. if i'm in a cranky mood, some days i yell back at them. >> here's the thing, he's denying as he displays bullyism that and the bridge closing and all the rest of the thing. and, basically, using on the border front tactics with the mayor of hoboken. isn't it hard to deny that you are what you look like? >> you know, as a bridge gate wasn't enough, you know, this jersey attitude gate. and he feels like, you know, that sells, that works with jersey voters. we grew up across the bridge from jersey. we grew up in philly. but our numbers are down in jersey because they've had enough of chris, the ie. he thinks that that's going to work in 2016. wait until he gets down south. >> what do you think of this? lame duck u.s. congresswoman michelle bachaman, her last as member of congress. she wanted to tell the president

personally something substantive about what she thinks is the person of the day. here's how she describes that conversation. >> after the photo was done, i turn to the president and said mr. president, with all due respected, i'm concerned about the iranian nuclear program and i think it would be wise to bomb the program before they obtain a nuclear weapon. whuns th once they obtain the weapon, the world changes. the president smiled and it was fairly condescending and patronizing and said it's not quite that easy, michelle, but that's okay. and i said no, mr. president, seriously. this is on your watch. they cannot obtain a nuclear weapon and i'm very concerned. and so anyway, that was it and i said merry christmas and he said merry christmas and on i went. >> i think michelle bachman can make the obvious seem important.

it's almost always a dove. because then the next president would have to deal with it. >> good riddance to michelle bachmanment she made her whole career in government. she first was an irs lawyer and then basically moved up to become a member of congress and now she's basically telling the president, be careful with iran. >> are you catholic? >> i an. >> okay, you can start with the nice list. going up to the bad priest in the period and the whole thing. >> so two years ago, you've basically brought me in to ask me this question. he had to basically soften his position on poverty, he had to talk a little bit about gay marriage and he had to talk a new generation. he's been doing that. he's been doing it in a way that's authentic. >> why is he popular outside the churj e church. because he really is. >> because he's saying what everybody has been saying behind closed doors. not in the last ten years, but

the last 30 years. he's finally speaking truth to power. >> for too many years, charles has had too many closed doors. >> the purpose is to kind of address that. >> who is your favorite? mccain or colbert. >> i'll take john mccain wabecae i suggest we praise him. saying torture is morally wrong, it doesn't work. and is not worthy of american values. he went on the floor of the senate and he told everybody and anybody exactly how he felt which he has experienced. i've traveled to vietnam with john mccain. i went with him into the place where he had to survive for five or six years. i think that gave him a moral

vision on this particular type of thing that he was utterly afraid to state in front of the whole country and the world. >> thank you for this. charles, from philly, go philly. >> i wore a red tie. >> i did go all the way. the real meaning of naughty and nice this year. those words are childish and they seem to fils e fit politics these days rather niegsly. we'll be back with the place for politics. the green lights you? no. it's called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids make the world predictable. thrillingly predictable.

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let me finish tonight with the year 2014. did you notice something about the naughty or nice list? normally, it would seem jive nile or childish phrase to use on a political show. naughty, nice, are those adult words to use with those operating on the world stage? right now, it seems they are. let's start with the naughty list. is is there any doubt that dick chene, mr. perpetrator and defender of torture deserves top billing or chris christie is now seen as the real thing. the thing we hated in high school, bullying. find despicable as a grown up. isn't michelle bachman a useless, disaster of holder of public office. now the nice, pope francis

makes me happy makes the whole people happy. he speaks humbly of not being able to judge god's decision in creating gay people whochlt is he to do such a thing. to think such a thing as if he were god's quality controller. god gay people, it's francis' job to help them. help them find truth. it's his job to rouot for them s if they're his own children. john mccain, he stook up for barack obama. and lately, he stood up against torture based on personal, pay trotic experience. sooef colbert, the man knows how to make politics funny. knows how to make you feel good about it being funny.

there's no one more sedition to the right. naughty and nice after a tough year, but one that's ending surprisingly well. i'll take it. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. wishing you and your family a merry christmas and the happiest of hol dwas. "all in" with chris hayes" starts right now. >> now, the good news. >> the economy enters beast mode. >> the bdow officially topping 18,000. the average price for a gallon of gas plunges. >> we get the unemployment rate down to 6%, perhaps a little lower. >> i believe we can get gasoline down to somewhere between $2, 2:50 a gallon and that would be an enormous thing. >> tonight, a closer look