open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. good morning from new york. we are following breaking news from out of asia. an airasia plane with 162 people on board has disappeared after taking off on indonesia on its way to singapore. both countries have undertaken a search and rescue operation. there has not been any word on that plane's whereabouts. nightfall has now come across the area. the air search has been suspended though there are boats looking for any signs of anything in the area. airasia released a statement saying that the crew asked for a

change in flight path. they wanted to go up to 38,000 feet in order to avoid rough weather that was directly in their path. we're getting word from the weather channel that there was a 50,000 thunderstorm cluster right near the flight path. that is the java sea under which the plane graphic is shown. they lost contact over the java sea. there's no indication, though specifically that weather had anything to do with it. we're getting a live report from a help center at the airport that has been set up. there were 162 people onboard. the breakdown is seven crew members, including seven crew members and 155 passengers. most were indonesians. three from south korea, one from singapore and one from malaysia. that's the co-pilot of the plane

there. airasia is a low-cost carrier with presence in several southeastern countries. president obama has been briefed on the situation and stands ready to help if needed. joining me in the studio we have anthony roman, also former flight instructor michael kay joins us former helicopter pilot. and also via skype we're joined by a commercial pilot for 30 years. gentlemen, to you, lots of questions. let's get to the most pressing ones. anthony, which one is most pressing for you right now that says this is what needs to be answered to find out what happened? >> well we know that there were severe thunderstorms in the area, level 5 thunderstorms that could go up into the stratosphere up to 60,000 feet. now, this particular aircraft was attempting to override a thunderstorm. and in that -- >> does override me go above or

around? >> go above. try to climb above it, as it appears right now. they asked for a deviation. however, these type of thunderstorms can exceed the aircraft's climb capability in terms of vertical development. they can actually grow upwards much faster than the aircraft can climb. >> if this plane is cruising at 32,000 feet and anthony, it wants to go up to 38 i understand that an a-320 has a ceiling about 39,000 feet? >> 39 41,000 feet is about its service limit. >> okay. how do you deal with the question, then that the weather channel saying that there were 50,000-foot thunderstorm vertical clouds in the area? i mean wouldn't that be detected? >> well yes, it can be detected by radar and visually. however, radar is not an exact science. if there is severe hail in a

thunderstorm or a thunderstorm behind the first thunderstorm, the radar can be masked. and the pilots can believe that perhaps this is a soft area that they can fly through or above and intent end up in a very severe thunderstorm. >> ron, you've been a commercial pilot for 30 years. i was told as we were on the air earlier that you never want to fly through a thunderstorm. is that correct? i mean is there any reason to fly through a thunderstorm? have you done it? and what was that experience like if you did? >> you're absolutely right, alex. you never fly through them. as anthony was saying you use weather radar to sir circumnavigate those. one of the things is if you're in particularly daylight conditions, you can see thunderstorms and the hearts of

the cell but if you're in cirrus clouds that mask the thunderstorms visually, you're limited by the weather radar and it's harder and you can have a thunderstorm hide another one behind it. >> michael? >> i want to add here, let's rewind a little bit on the conversation. all of the pilots will look at the forecast well before they climb. they look at the forecast and the weather on route and will know from chatting to the weather forecasters what the weather conditions are likely to be on route. we'll have a good idea if they are a storm pattern and what route they are going to take what diversion they might need to take because they need to look at all of this when they are calculating the fuels and endurance in case they get to singapore and have to go into a hold because of inclement

weather. they have to ask for a diverse or ask for something off route before they can do that. in an emergency, they can go off route and they are likely to go around rather than above for the reasons that you brought up. >> it's interesting that we are getting reports they tried to climb to that level. who knows at this point exactly what was happening. >> i would be cautious about that because standard operating procedure for pilots is to go around systems for the very reason that you articulated. these jets have a service ceiling and these storms can go in excess of 50,000 feet. >> you have to look ahead at what might be happening. this is monsoon season michael. this is nothing out of the ordinary for this area in particular. when they made that deviant flight path do they register that? is it something that the pilots say, if we come to this, this is the way we will go? >> there's two ways.

what is inputted into the aircraft is flight plans if they want to come off that they have to input new waypoints into that system. in order to that it's a real emergency and if it's a real emergency, it's either due to an engineering malfunction or something crept up on them very quickly. so really for me i'd be looking at what type of conversation has been going on between the aircraft and their traffic and when did their traffic know that something was wrong in order to initiate what is called when an aircraft has gone longer than 30 minutes of it is e.t.a. at a certain coordinate. if it hasn't arrived at that coordinate within 30 minutes and it's not seen on radar, that's

when the action is initiated, which is the search and rescue operations. >> right. we should say that the research that i've been given and this is the associated press and other information that has been given to me that it had lost contact about three minutes after making that request that they wanted to deviate from the scheduled flight plan and then one minute after that three-minute point, so four minutes after making contact and saying that we need to deviate, it dropped off the radar. so ron, we don't want to speculate but the reality is we've been told that this plane, an a-320, did not have the fuel capacity to sustain flying for this period of time. let's talk about the kind of plane that this is. what do you know about the 320? >> it's the most widely used airplanes. so, yeah they know. plus as mike said there, once the time of fuel on board from the flight plan and the fact

that they are on radar, it really helps them start to search there. what we know is that the airplane has not shown up anywhere yet and that's really as you said we can't speculate. that's all we know for sure right now. >> yeah. we do know that because of darkness, we believe, all of the aerial operations that are being conducted by both malaysia and singapore, singapore reached out and said we're offering our assistance and malaysia has taken it. the navy has launched ships. some ships are in the water but it's dark so they've suspended the air operations and if there's inclement weather, that's a very wise thing to do at this time. we talked about something called flight envelope protection. you both had thoughts on this. explain what that is and how that may complicate matters here. >> well, the ah-320 series don't

have a direct link between what the pilots uses to go up down left and right and the flight control services. what they do is they have the link linkage to a computer program. the software interpret's the pilots inputs. >> it supersedes the pilots ability to do that? >> there have been instances in extreme cross-wind landing situations and upsets of the aircraft where the pilot attempted to regain control of the aircraft exceeded the software limitations and they ran into some serious trouble. >> and you brought up an incident where this was believed to be a contributing cause to a crash. correct?

>> yeah. there was an incident many years ago which was conducting what's called an overshoot procedure and the systems overrided it and it ended up flying into the trees. what i want to say before we go down this route of engineering malfunctions is that this aircraft would have been at 32,000 feet or thereabouts. if there's any sort of malfunction in the system the pilot and the crew has a long time to start putting on emergency codes on the transponders 7700 that's the international recognized emergency code. they have a lot of time to start talking to air traffic, put out a more serious mayday call. there are a lot of protocols that should have happened should there have been some sort of engineering problem that we're talking about. >> so the fact that that was not done, what does that tell you about the situation in the cockpit? >> we don't know at the moment. and this is what we need to be careful about sort of going down

a rabbit hole is as we saw with mh-370, which was complexing about the whole situation, there was no communication from the crew. the transponder stopped giving out a signal. the transponder is something really interesting. it's effectively a piece of equipment in the aircraft that sends it to the radar on the ground and allows atc to look at where the aircraft is with the individual identification code and it can see what altitude these aircraft are at. so if there is decline or descent in altitude or incline, any air traffic agency following them will be able to see what altitude they are at. there's a lot of precursors to you know a final extreme event. >> yeah. >> you know it's very interesting, alex but the pilot's primary responsibility is to maintain control of the aircraft. first and foremost. so if they run into an extreme emergency in which they

inadvertently penetrated a thunderstorm -- and i've had that experience myself many many years ago -- is to maintain control and air traffic was trying to reach us we were struggling to maintain control of the aircraft the co-pilot was controlling the power quadrant, i was following the aircraft. we were busy. we had no time to speak with them. >> you make a very good point. very quickly? >> aviate and communicate. that's whatever pilot is taught. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. we will probably delve more into your expertise later in the day. we'll keep you updated throughout the hour. short break right now. we'll be right back. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season...

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we're going to give you a live update in a few minutes about the missing airplane but first, jeb bush released approximately 250,000 e-mails from his eight years as florida's governor. the messages shine light on bush's private relationships with constituents as well as his vision of government. this release is part of his preparation to run for the white house, what some see as an attempt to get a leg up on republican competitors, many of whom are only now turning their attention to the campaign trail. so what else must bush and his other 2016 contenders do to set their sights on the white house? i'm joined by my colleagues. jane i'll throw the first question about jeb bush to you. we see what he is doing. he's releasing his e-mail out there and releasing all sorts of

public correspondence. is this a definitive sign that he's going to run? and what else does he need to do in order to make the official announcement? >> to borrow a term from his brother's administration there are a lot of unknowns. we don't know where he stands on the issues. i think we're going to start to see him wading in. he released the previous e-mails to say, this is where i was. now i think we're going to see where he is. >> let's move to texas senator ted cruz. many are blaming him for some of the obama nominees. a lot of people describe him as someone who is not very well liked by his colleagues. how important is that when running for an election? >> he's detested in the senate. >> i was trying to be nicer about it. >> let's get it all out there. he's seen as a show boater.

he's all about himself. he's not about the body itself. everybody says that's fine. people are sick of congress and the senate and what have you, let's get out on our own. ted cruz has used that place to launch his own presidential campaign. fine for him. democrats are openly critical of him. you need your friends and allies. he's basically his own ally and has no one else. >> hillary clinton has kept a low profile, jane the last couple of months. what do you think is her m.o. for 2015? >> i think she's going to take her time before wading into it. everybody knows she's that presumed front-runner. she looks really good to the democratic party but i think the sooner she's in the more opportunity she has to trip up or to get hit by other democrats in the field. we see jim web. he could potentially come to the left of her and intervention. she's going to take her time. >> you mentioned jim web.

i'm looking at "the new york times" and there's a headline the real threat to hillary clinton. do you see him as a real threat? >> i don't see him as a real threat should she get in. he can be a real -- i would say -- i hate to use the word pest but that's what it is going to be. he's going to be to the left on foreign affairs and to the right on the other issues. he's a smart articulate guy. i don't see that erases a lot of money. if some billionaire comes along and decides to promote him, i think he could be a serious thorn in her side. >> i want to go to rand paul right now. here's a funny tweet. "booker still doesn't retweet him enough." he's also been fighting over the cuba policy. what kind of hurdles do you

think he faces this next year? >> i think rand paul needs to come up on top on something. he seems to be in the right circles. he's with the tea party but he's sort of the number one. ted cruz has been taking that stage with the tea party for a long time. i mean i think it's been a while since he's been out in front in a really popular within the party and i think he's going to have to find a sweet spot to get the momentum that he needs to jump out in a primary. >> okay. ladies, thank you so much. jane i know that you're leaving us. appreciate your insights. beth, see you later on this morning. >> okay. coming up next, a search and rescue update on the java sea for the missing airasia flight. we'll be right back. roughest toughest cold symptoms. vicks nyquil severe. with maximum symptom fighting ingredients. ♪

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singapore. we understand president obama has been briefed on the situation. we also understand the ntsb is monitoring the situation. there do not appear to be any americans onboard that plane. here to help sort out the developing story now, we have kitty higgins, former national safety transportation board member and a former flight instructor. kitty, i'll reach out long distance to you in london. from what we know so far about that plane and the crew and the communications with air traffic control, what stands out to you? >> well i think what stands out, obviously the weather is a huge factor that we will be taking into account and the pilots, we all know now, were asking to divert around the weather. i'm reminded of the air france accident that happened in 2009 where weather was also a factor. it was also an airbus. it was a 330 as opposed to a 320

and i think that investigation, they knew where the plane was, as we do in this case because of the radar and also the airbus technology, but it took a long time to recover the black boxes. >> kitty, when you say this may be weather-related, i've always been told as a frequent flyer, turbulence does not bring down a flight. so -- a plane, rather. so in this case if you're going into or near some severe thunderstorms, as has been reported from the weather channel, there were apparently vertical columns reaching up to as much as 50,000 feet in the air that had thunderstorms. we're talking monsoon season there as well. what is it that would be the most challenging for a plane to safely navigate through something like that? >> well as your earlier guests indicated, the goal is to go around the weather, not go through it. i think every pilot that i've

ever talked to wants to avoid storms to the extent possible. we won't know obviously, until we recover the aircraft and the boxes in particular exactly what happened. we have to assume weather was a factor here but until we get the information from those boxes, we won't know whether there was also a mechanical issue involved. >> okay. to you anthony, you were speaking about it. i believe kitty was referencing you and you talk about how you have to go around these weather incidents. you have flown in pretty precarious situations. you were talking about that. so if you were not able to completely divert the plane around the weather columns, what is that like? >> well weather is a very tricky phenomenon and this type of weather, the monstrous storms, they are so dynamic and change so quickly, 30 seconds ohr a minute can make a complete change in the weather that you

want to fly. for example, if you're flying downwind of a massive thunderstorm that goes to 60,000 feet within 40 even 50 miles you can be hit by hail you can be hit by severe turbulence which can overwhelm an aircraft. these storms are game changers. i actually had an inadvertent penetration of a thunderstorm many, many years ago. i had no visual contact. i was flying in a stratasform thunderstorm. it was just a level one. that's the smallest thunderstorm there is. it developed spontaneously around us. both my co-pilot and i had a handful trying to maintain control of the aircraft and the rain was so heavy we had trouble communicating with each other because it produced such a loud noise and we had the entire aircraft sandblasted.

the paint right down to the bare metal. >> uh-huh. what i want to pick up on you said this was many years ago and it was not picked up on radar. surely technology has improved since then. i mean, wouldn't you be able to see as a pilot a mass a 50,000 foot column like that? these are violent storms. >> yes, you can. but radar is not an exact science and it's not a perfect method either. it's looking ahead of the aircraft within about 20 degrees in a cone-like shape on either side and then the pilot has control of the radar antenna in the nose and can lift it and lower it to look at the vertical development of the storm. >> uh-huh. >> so he has to do all of those things while the weather is changing so dynamically. so many many things can happen. hail wind shear microbursts that can actually drive this aircraft into the sea. >> so kitty, with your vast

experience there as a former ntsb board member as well as listening to anthony talk about a pretty difficult situation that he had to get through, what do you make of the fact that the pilots were unable to re-establish contact? they put in the request to deviate from the scheduled flight plan. three minutes later, apparently the last sort of communication with the plane was made although that has not been made clear what that communication was. and then one minute later it disappears from the radar. >> well clearly the pilots were flying the plane and doing what good pilots do which is to ask for a deviation in this case. we won't know what happened or -- until we get those boxes. and i think, again, we can speculate but we won't know for sure. so i always caution patients in these types of accidents because we can speculate all we want but we really won't know until we get information from both the

voice recorder and data recorder. >> kitty, is there any likelihood of that plane, if you could have landed somewhere? i mean as we're looking at what we know about fuel that the plane had onboard, where it lost contact there over the java sea, when we look at the closest place for a land mass where it could have landed and the fact that we haven't heard from it i mean certainly we're speculating and i don't want to put you outside of your comfort zone. but is there a possibility that plane could have landed? what is the likelihood of that having happened? >> i think it's a small and very remote possibility. if it had landed i'm sure we would have heard from it or heard from somebody who had seen it. so again, technology being what it is we have the ability to communicate as do the pilots. so it's always a possibility but i think it's a highly unlikely possibility. >> that means we may be looking at a recovery operation though officially it's a search and rescue operation. the associated press is

reporting that all of the air search and rescue operations that have been conducted by the singapore air force have been suspended due to darkness and, of urs couldcourse, there is bad weather in the region. boats are in the water looking for anything that has happened to this night, 8501. kitty higgins anthony roman, thank you for joining us this morning. we'll continue to keep you updated on this missing flight. we'll take a short break and be right back on msnbc. when i crave a smoke that's all i crave. that's where this comes in. only nicorette gum has patented dual-coated technology for great taste. plus nicorette gum gives

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george washington bridge hit his area. and the widespread mismanage had the of the veterans affairs led for eric shinseki to resign. beth a welcome back to you. when the book is written by historians on this year 2014, which scandal do you think will be the headline the biggest one? >> well we don't have anything along the lines of watergate or iran/contra. in terms of the most memorable scandal, i would say bridgegate. the fact that it was an interesting and fun one to imagine somebody on governor chris christie's staff saying let's have some lane closures on ft. lee. it speaks to the people around chris christie. someone who was strongly considering running for president, these are the kinds of people that he brings into his inner circle that they would settle scores in these

vindictive ways. we are still waiting for indictments. a year ago, he was probably the most promising presidential candidate. this scandal may have toppled him from that. >> perhaps the most recent scandal is with congressman michael grimm of staten island. he was accused of a 20-count indictment, pleading guilty to one count of felony tax fraud. what does that mean for him? >> well he's probably going to go to jail and that is -- puts john boehner, the republican leader in the house, in a very bad position. is he going to ask michael grim to step down? michael grimm does not have to step down. he was re-elected in november overwhelmingly. he crushed the democrat in that race even though everyone in staten island, his constituents knew that he was under investigation. they say it's okay for him to return to congress. it's up to michael grimm now to decide whether he's going to step down or not.

the house cannot force him to do so. >> we mentioned at the top the v.a. scandal, eric shinseki having to resign. do you think that was the biggest one to hit the obama administration? >> well nobody likes to think about veterans who serve our country not getting the health care that they need. >> and many dying as a result. >> many dying as a result. exactly. exactly. exactly. there's really no excuse. the biggest one was the phoenix hospital. they were having a much worse problem than other v.a. hospitals, not to excuse anything that happened shinseki took the hit and stepped down. it looks like the obama administration has stepped up to fix the problem. as you say, that does not fix the problem for those who died. >> what about the targeted groups? >> there was news that perhaps the irs made mistakes. it doesn't look like the white house was involved. the republicans tried to allege that there's a politically

alleged investigation right out of the top political attendants. that was not. that was released under the cloak of night last week. most of these scandals that the republicans are trying to drum up against the president are not holding any water. >> is there one that you will say, this one did not get the attention that we thought, the most underreported of the year? >> i'm going to say the fact that the economy and the improvements there were never, ever discussed by democrats running for re-election to the senate. it's as though they wanted to pretend that all of the good news that happened under this president and in the past year never happened and that somehow that was going to re-elect them. i consider that a scandal. >> that is a scandal. who would be advising these people who were running for re-election, many who were not re-elected. >> none of them were re-elected. i think the fact that they were running in red states they don't like the president there so let's pretend that the president doesn't exist.

>> don't people vote their wallets? >> yes. and people need to motivate their base. by pretending that they hadn't voted for president obama, alison lundergan grimes to people not wanting to campaign for them how do they think they are going to get elected if they can't motivate their base and not talk about the accomplishments of their party and this president. that's crazy. >> i agree with you, that is probably the most unreported. that is a scandal. beth, thank you very much. ahead, we'll keep you updated on the missing flight from indonesia to singapore stay tuned.

in case you're just joining us indonesia has halted its air search for the missing airasia flight that was headed to singapore when it disappeared. the weather may have been bad at

the time it disappeared. meantime with all of the noise about gifts this holiday season it's hard to keep track of all of the best book guides of the career. to catch you up on the books you should be looking out for for your next vacation getaway, all of the books fit to read from to 14, that was a big job for this lady right here the editor at "the new york times" helped put this together and their top ten list is present on your screen. also this season it's "by the book," interviews with top literatures on literature life. if we want to curl up with a good book this time of year bad weather outside, let's talk about the best ones. fiction we're going to start with. "all of the light we cannot see." >> it's a year of huge huge books, martin amos had a book.

this book emerged out of nowhere and it's a simple sort of takes place in world war ii follows two intertwining story lines, a french girl that joins the resistance and another recruited by the nazis. it sounds like a big historical novel. it's enveloping and it's also a page turner. this story is told in short, gripping chapters. it it is a literary thriller. >> here is one, a book about marriage. it's called "department of speculation" by jennie-0 ffill. >> it's creative ambition and marriage on the rocks. it reads kind of like an episodic diary, these quick

observations by this ferociously intelligent and depressed woman and she's interested in everything interest science to trying to write this novel that is not getting written. and it's funny. >> the multitasking mom. >> there we go. >> "euphoria" that is based on a love triangle at the center. >> fabulous. >> it's full about the life of the mind and the life of the body and the work of anthropology. if you're being looking for a steamy book this is for you. >> how about "family life"? >> this is a really interesting book. it's 13 years in the making. it took her to get it to 200 pains. it's a harrowing story. it's based on her brother who was in a vegetative state for decades. it's how the family dealt with the grief and how the immigrant

family deals with being in these twin planets of despair. >> this comes at a time of when you had "boyhood." "redeployment". >> the iraq war has inspired war writing. this is the best book that describes what this book has done to people's souls. it's 12 stories, each with a very different point of view a chaplain a grunt, a corrupt contractor. it talks about what the war has done to people's psyches. >> it's a heavy book to read. >> if you've fallen out of readings fiction, pick this one up. it's so quick and sharp and has the power of the best nonfiction. >> let's get to something nonfiction. can we talk about something more pleasant? >> yes. >> this is a change from our

last topic, the classic new york cartoonist. it's a graphic memoir isn't it? >> yes. it's up there with "mouse." it's an incredibly devastating and hilarious look at what happens when your parents start aging. >> huh. >> and you have to find the funny. she helps them get on the right table at the nursing home track down their 11,000 pairs of eyeglasses. it's so sad and so tender. >> it's sounds perfect. "on immunity," nonfiction about vaccinations. interesting as we've been in this severe flu season. >> she's a very sort of amazingly young, gifted woman and she's talking about cultural fears. why so many fear vaccinations and being superstitious about purity and toxicity.

as a new mother she says i never felt more powerful and more powerless. it's a book about how anxiety is contagious. >> it sounds fascinating. how many books do you read throughout the year? >> it's constant. it is just constant. but it's been a good year. >> and you get paid to do it. >> that's true. i'm not complaining. >> from "the new york times," nice to see you. thank you so much. >> thank you. still ahead, more on the efforts to locate missing airasia flight carrying 162 passengers. we'll be back with more on that. no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no... icky germs, icky germs.

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north korea was crippled with its internet outage. north korea has accused president obama of causing its recent internet troubles in retaliation for the sony pictures hacking but continues to deny that north korea is spops responsible for the incident in any way. some internet security analysts

and hackers have cast doubt on those charges. joining us to talk about that is timothy lee, editor for fox. welcome to you. this is a lot of back and forth but let's talk about the arguments being made that it was not north korea involved in this attack on sony. >> the fbi says that north korea is responsible and there's some circumstantial evidence but the hard thing about this is that there are a lot of people that could have done this attack. in 2011 there was a big attack that turned out to be from the u.s. and uk and it's corporate networks like this vulnerable to these kinds of attacks. it could have been the north koreans but any number of other troublemakers. >> other troublemakers. if it is another group, why wouldn't they come forward? >> well if it's just a group of kids, they may not want to get prosecuted. another possibility is that it's possible that somebody hacked

into sony's network and realize they can make a buchblg of money if bunch of money if they sold the vulnerabilities to north korea. initially they seemed to be interested in a number of issues and then they focused on "the interview," criticizing kim jong-un. and that might be because the north koreans did not become involved in the attack until after the initial attack. >> i've also seen reports that it could be a disgruntled pink slip pending employee from within sony. given the type of hack the information that was released does it make more sense that there was somebody inside whether it's north korea that had some sort of a contact on the inside or disgruntled employee? i mean the kind of stuff that was released the volumes, did it have to come from something inside? >> it didn't have to. so it did -- some of the initial statements did talk about

disgruntled about sony's policies about the way that they treated their employees. but once you hack into a network like this it's pretty easy to go from one machine to another to get lots of information and the evidence that we have is that this attack was probably ongoing for several weeks or maybe even months before it became public. and so it's possible that these hackers, if they didn't have an insider, they would have been able to sort of watch and wait and gather information and get the kind of information that you might otherwise need an insider to get. >> okay. when we talk about it being the third incident for north korea this week in terms of its internet coming down how hard is it to take down an internet within you know a sovereign state? >> well normally that would be pretty hard if you try to take the united states internet down, that would be pretty difficult north korea has a really small internet. they only have 1,000 i.p. addresses in the whole country

compared to a hundred million here in the u.s. if you have some big computers with big internet connections and flood that one connection with traffic, you can drown out anything that people in north korea want to do. that's actually something that again, there's lots of people other than the u.s. government, who could have done this. >> certainly speculation continues as to what happened is still forthcoming. in the meantime, timothy lee, thank you. appreciate it. >> we're going to have more on the airasia plane that's been missing for 13-plus hours. keep it on msnbc.

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operation. the plane has been missing for 13 hours now. with nightfall, the air search has been suspended, though boats are still in the water and looking for any clues as to where this plane has gone. airasia for its part has released a statement saying that the crew asked for a change in flight path. they wanted to go from 32,000 feet up to 38,000 feet saying this was to avoid some rough weather in their path. we're going to take you back live here and give you a look at the airport singapore. 162 people were on board and that includes seven crew members. 155 passengers. most were indonesians. one person from singapore and another from malaysia. of those passengers 16 onboard were children and one infant. airasia is a low-cost carrier with presence in several south

asia countries. the ntsb is monitoring the search and stands ready if needed or asked. katy tur has this live report. >> reporter: an emotional scene in indonesia as loved ones find out that the plane is missing and lost over the sea. i hope for a miracle. the flight was going from surabaya to singapore when the pilot asked to climb to 38,000 feet to avoid clouds. the airasia plane has not been heard from since. there were thunderstorms in the area around the time that the aircraft disappeared. this is the third incident involving a malaysian-based

company this year. a flight traveling from kuala lumpur to beijing is still missing and was caring 239 passengers and crew. and then there's mh-17 that was shot down over ukraine this summer. more heartache for families who just want to know what happened to their loved ones. >> that was katy tur where flight 8501 was scheduled to land singapore. joining me is michael kay here in the studio foreign affairs correspondent and former helicopter pilot in the air force. i welcome all of you. greg i'll reach out to you first. what kind of information are investigators looking for that will give us a better idea about what happened to this night? >> right now they are collecting as much information as they can. it looks like weather will be a focal point in this investigation. so while we're still waiting to find debris and, of course, the

cockpit voice recorder and data recorder, there's a lot of behind the scenes information going on as they get information that they can with regard to weather information, what the crew knew what information they used for flight planning purposes and then of course was there any communication between the crew and their dispatcher with regard to the deviation around this weather. >> okay. john, i'm going to read from reports that we've been getting from "the associated press" and we've been told the last communication between the pilot and air traffic control was at 6:13 a.m. the pilot asked to quote, avoid clouds by turning left and going higher to 34,000 feet. it was last seen on radar three minutes later and a minute after that, it was no longer on the radar. put what you know together and tell me what you think could have happened. >> well i think that the deviation left of course and increase in altitude would be

normal course of action for dealing with thunderstorms and having them in the area. the pilots avoid thunderstorms and this would be a typical response. with the airbus having burned some fuel they had the capability of going higher. that let's them see more where the individual cells are. so i would characterize those two requests from air traffic control as routine. from there, the fact that the airplane lost radar contact so quickly could indicate a major problem. also, the fact that they did not talk to air traffic control again could indicate that whatever occurred in the airplane occurred very quickly and that's really all we know at this stage. >> michael, when you were last on with me you told me what a pilot has to do. a pilot and co-pilot. was it ava? >> aviate and communicate. the first thing a pilot has to do is fly the airplane.

now, they usually work in crews, so a pilot, co-pilot and maybe even an engineer onboard. the captain will usually take the controls and fly the airplane simultaneously the co-pilot will navigate and start pushing the captain towards the nearest diversion in that field and, at the same time the captain or the co will put out a mayday call which is an indication that there's a serious emergency on board. there are a number of competing views here at the point. john rightly pointed out, in any emergency you will usually get a call coming out pretty quickly from the cockpit or there will be 7700 which is the emergency transponder that has come up. if that hasn't come up a, the crew wasn't aware of an emergency happening or something catastrophic has happened. however, if something catastrophic has happened, the search and rescue authorities who will zone in on the last

point of communication will usually find something within a fairly small area of where the last known point was. there are a number of views there that is confusing. >> you said among the scenarios they didn't know what was coming. they called in to air traffic control and said we've got a weather situation, we want to deviate. so does that then guide you down that path? i mean again, until we find this plane, wherever it is in whatever condition, we're not going to know? >> what you're talking about there is what we're referring to before, which is the weather situation. what i'm talking about in terms of a catastrophic event is something which is penetrated the integrity of the fuselage so something like a structural failure or decompression. >> is that metal fatigue? >> it could be metal fatigue, something which is us kacausing the fuselage to decompress. when you're at 30,000 feet if that happens, the crew have to get on the oxygen masks pretty

quickly. one of the quick reactions or the immediate reactions is to get the oxygen masks on and start descending the aircraft below 10,000 feet. this is a very unusual situation. it's highly unlikely i must stress, this is highly unlikely and, also if something catastrophic has happened the search and rescue authorities which would go straight into the last point of contact are highly likely to pick up wreckage. the wreckage is usually the first thing that search and rescue authorities will come over rather than the black box or voice recorders. >> we should say, again, the aerial search has been suspended due to nightfall. there is also bad weather and it's monsoon season everyone which makes everything more complicated and makes it more complicated for the ships that we are told are still in the water looking for any signs of anything. john i want to pick up with metal fatigue with you. that's a term that we hear. metal fatigue for a plane that was just dlefred six years ago, is metal fatigue something that

you refer to at duration of the plane, how long it's been in use or the kinds of flights it's been in if it's long haul or short haul does that affect it differently? >> alex i flew this plane for six years as a captain. it's been in service as a fleet-type since the '80s. it's a well-proven design and has not shown a history of metal fatigue. i think the idea of anything along that line is pretty speculative. we don't have any information and if they had a problem and needed to come down once they had their oxygen masks established, one of the things they will do is advise air traffic control that they are leaving their assigned altitude and starting down. that didn't occur here. that's another indicator to me that that -- the likelihood of an explosive decompression or anything along that line we don't have evidence right now to support that. >> uh-huh. greg, as a former ntsb

investigator, i'm going to say we're making a leap here and if this becomes a recovery no longer search and rescue operation, in other words, that plane has crashed, what are the first things that the ntsb or the equivalent there singapore and malaysia what would they be looking for? >> alex right now the sea state is really going to dictate what takes place because the longer time passes you have debris that's going to start to spread out over the ocean. so they will find floating debris. the problem is they are going to have to try and backtrack and find the main wreckage debris field so they can locate the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder and then depending on where the airplane has gone down, you have to worry about a sea depth. getting an rov down there to recover the fdr and cvr and then starting an accident investigation from that point. but until they find wreckage and can locate the main debris field, there's not much that can

be done other than gathering all of the background information on this flight and this flight crew. >> greg, can the u.s. provide any additional assistance in this situation? >> right now the ntsb and faa are on stand by. they need a letter of request from the indonesians to participate in this investigation. it's not a u.s.-built aircraft. it is a malaysian carrier so the ntsb and faa stand ready to assist if that's required. the indonesians -- i worked over there. i set up their national transportation safety committee, and in working with them they have an mou with the australians. they do a lot of work with singapore and they'll be working with the malaysians. they have a lot of expertise. because this is a french aircraft, they'll be working with the bea as well. there's a lot of expertise there but i know that the u.s. stands ready to assist if they can. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. my thanks to captain john fox,

also michael kay here in the studio. greg, i'll see you later. don't go too far. we have a lot more stories that will be developing. stay with us here on msnbc. the design of the ford escape is clearly intended to grab your eye. ♪ oh, and your foot. ain't that a kick? the ford escape with the foot-activated liftgate. ♪ go open up something interesting. go further. why do i take metamucil everyday? because it helps me skip the bad stuff. i'm good. that's what i like to call the meta

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i know from personal experience that there is little that anyone can do at this moment to ease the pain, that sense of loss, that sense of loneliness. >> when an assassin's bullet targeted two officers, it targeted this city and it touched the soul of the entire nation. >> that was vice president joe biden at yesterday's funeral service for nypd officer rafael ramos. ramos and his partner were gunned down while sitting in

their patrol car. they were targeted for their uniforms. this came after several days of protests and the death of eric garner protests that bill de blasio has voiced support for. this has led to protests from police organizations, including yesterday when hundreds of officers outside the funeral turned their backs on the mayor as he spoke. with the funeral behind how does this city move forward now? joining me to talk about that pulitzer prize winning columnist michael daily and harry seagal. i want to ask you about the backs turned situation. do you think, michael, that that was the time to do that yesterday when the focus was on rafael ramos? >> it's -- not being a police officer and not having kids at home to worry about him, it's easy for me to say, it's not appropriate, it wasn't the time. when you look at it a few cops

turned their back to a jumbo tron. when you look at what happened here you have to figure in thousands of new york homes yesterday, kids watched daddy and/or mommy put on a dress uniform, complete with white gloves and the question is where are you going? the answer is i'm going to a police officer's funeral. and then the question is could it happen to you? and the answer to that is yes. i mean so if a few of them in that context who feel that the mayor did not support them happened to transform the city by the way, then you can understand it. >> before i speak with you about this i want to play what bill de blasio said about the role of police. let's listen to them. >> police officers are called

peace officers because that's what they do. they keep the peace. they help make a place that otherwise would be torn with strife a place of peace. officer ramos put his life on the line every day so new yorkers could live in peace, in safety. that's what he believed in. >> that message in addition to the one that was put forth by governor cuomo when he talked about the pride that he took with the nypd and the way that they have behaved in the face of things being hurled at them and horrible things being said to them throughout these protests talk about that message and if you think that got through to the police officers yesterday. >> well that message is one de blasio has been consistently delivering sense he's come into office. the issue has been that he's had a second parallel message about history of injustice and racially bias policing that's

been very difficult for many officers to hear. >> which he speaks with from a personal perspective, given his family makeup. >> well his son is black and he talked about giving his son dante the talk about how to handle the police. patrick lynch, both of his sons are new york city police officers. >> uh-huh. >> so this is sort of personally charged in all directions for what it means. and the frustration among officers, many of them has been that the mayor is not giving credit for the transformation of the last 20 years and the people that's protected and the way that they see as adequate. they see the concerns about bias and overaggressive policing as an insult to the job that they have done. >> and you mentioned the pba president. i want to ask you meek kellichael, his name is pat lynch. it's a huge number of police officers. is it fair to say he speaks for

everyone who has put on a uniform uniform for the nypd? >> this is a diverse group of people. the way they approach the job and what they do i don't think any one person speaks for them but the person who should have spoken for them before two police officers were murdered was the mayor. and i think the problem with him is not him -- him and the cops is not what he said but what he didn't say. i would hope when he's talking to his son he not only told them to be careful around the police but the cops made us rich by leaving us two homes worth more than $1 million, there wouldn't be a democrat tech convention if it went for the cops and i don't think what he's made clear enough to the police is how grateful the whole city should be. >> harry, the role of commissioner bill bratton, it's

his second go-around but he seems to be the great equalizer. he seems to pretty uniformly have the respect of his nypd rank and file patrol officers and what he talked about yesterday, does his message get through? does he help put everything together? >> he's trying to be the bridge between de blasio and the department right now. it's not clear how much that message is getting through. obviously there's some frustration. he's talked about more discretion and giving police officers more space and at the same time they are closely tracking the numbers. and balancing those things convincing the police that he's with that it's going to be difficult especially as de blasio tries to create more reforms and more aggressive policing going forward in the interest of fairness. >> harry and michael, thank you very much. that's a wrap for this. i'm sure we'll have more discussion, though given the topic. still ahead, the search for the airasia jet that went missing between indonesia and

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the cdc reports that a technician remains well after possibly being at a low risk for contracting ebola but will be monitored for 21 days. a cdc investigation is under way and joining us is dr. natalie a azar. with a welcome to you, this is not the first misstep in dealing with deadly diseases. we had workers exposed to anthrax, nurses dealing with ebola patients. we could go on and on. what is behind missteps like this? is it not doing what you're working with? missteps? laziness in what is it? >> at the end of the day, all of these problems appear to be

human err. are the technicians being properly educated about safety protocols? this issue with ebola came on the heels of as you mentioned, mishandling of anthrax over the summer and the head of the laboratory resigned a few weeks later which led to an independent body of experts to review safety protocol at. cdc. this was not meant to be an investigation but issuing guidelines and observing what was happening. so you know you can see how dr. frieden was not, surprisingly incredibly upset that this happened this week and he has mandated a full investigation. so we'll see what actually happened. at the end of the day, it appears that there were some different stories or differing accounts about something that happened coloring coding mis mistakes. it just shouldn't happen but mistakes happen. >> right. >> they happen all the time. >> here we are we're talking

about a mistake and i want to go to the flip side here. how many times did we talk about ebola and we had grave concerns. the fact is there's been no ebola breakout here in the united states sg. >> yes. >> so the way that we have dealt with that can that be deemed an absolute success? >> we can. time will tell you know as we are going to see more cases. certainly, i think that the dr. spencer case at bellevue was very illustrative of where we had come from where we were and where we came from that all of the health care workers were a trained properly. >> can we talk about this caramel apple deaths? a handful of people died as a result of this listeria outbreak. >> i would not want to lead the

fda in this charge to make sure that all of our food supply and agricultural supply is safe. again, bacteria pathogens, they are ubiqitous. >> if could you suggest to people what to do to improve their health what would you tell them in. >> i would say exercise. that's my platform but it's a trifecta. it's diet and sleep and exercise. but to really -- no excuses, i'm big on that. if you have 15 20 minutes in your day, you can do something good for yourself get out and move. >> dr. natalie azar thank you for joining us. up next we'll turn to aviation experts to discuss the missing airasia plane that was en route from indonesia to singapore. you could drive home for the holidays in a new volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta and the precisely engineered passat tdi.

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the breaking news. an airasia plane with 162 people onboard has disappeared, losing contact with ground control after taking off from indonesia. it was on its way from singapore. katy tur is joining us live from the airport in sync poresingapore where the plane was supposed to land some 14 hours ago. what can you tell us? what's the latest? >> reporter: singapore air force has just confirmed that they have been involved in the search. they went over the java sea, searched for two hours before heading back when indonesian officials called off the search. it's 10:30 here right now. they've had a good 14 15 hours to look for that plane. it disappeared around 7:30 local time somewhere over the java sea. officials know where and when it went off radar so they should know where it is in that vicinity. so far, they have not seen any sign of that plane.

it's an airasia a-320, flight qz8501. officials say that pilots asked to change paths in the middle of the flight. they asked to go to 38,000 feet to avoid some weather. and there was, indeed a line of thunderstorms in the area. that is the last they heard of that plane before it went off radar. now, it was supposed to land here at 8:30 in the morning at singapore airport. we saw a few family members and friends looking for answers. a lot of them have flown to surabaya airport. so far, though not that much information and still no sign of that plane. they will resume searching, though, tomorrow morning once the sun comes up. alex? >> katy tur, i appreciate that. let's bring informer ntsb investigator greg feith to join

us. the search has been called off due to night. it's monsoon season in the area. for safety sake you call that off. how does that impact the search and rescue effort? >> it's all about time alex. the longer the time spreads, of course, the wreckage is going to be moving. with the sea state under this thunderstorm activity the waves are going to start to spread the wreckage. what is going to be very difficult is once they start to find floating debris they are going to have to try to backtrack where the debris came from so they can find the main impact point and the main debris field. hopefully that's where the cockpit voice recorder and data flight recorder are. all of this assumes that the airplane did not brake up in flight. it stayed in tact until water impact. >> okay. what have we learned from the now 10-month-long search for the missing malaysia flight 370 and

are there lessons that we can apply to this search? >> i think one of the primary things now is the fact that we have a very cooperative spirit. the search and rescue efforts started very early. it was multinational. they gathered a number of different players between malaysia and indonesia and singaporeans. all of this came together very quickly and the search began in very short order. the other thing is we know what technology we have. we have very sophisticated underwater listening devices and mapping devices with the rovs. that will help the search effort looking for the main debris field under water. the water could be several hundred feet deep. they will then have to recover what they have found. >> greg you've heard the phrase

needle in a haystack. we have two c-130s that will be sent out tomorrow to continue the search. two c-130s in the size of the ocean of a java sea there. it's pretty tough to spot things. >> it is, alex. but the good thing is they have better radar coverage so they at least can narrow the search area down. as i talked about before the sea state is going to spread that wreckage but with the surface assets and then of course airborne assets i think they are going to have a better -- at least a better understanding of where to look and how to focus that search and rescue effort. >> we certainly hope so. greg thank you so much. we're going to continue to keep all of you updated on this story as we learn more here on msnbc.

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with ray rice suspension dominating the national news. with the clock ticking down on 2014, is the response to it the biggest sports story of the year? let's ask mike pesca. you're a favorite of this show that much i'm told. and i want to ask you about the best story, biggest story of the year for you. >> yeah. for american sports it has to be roger goodell and his handling of the incidents because every year there is going to be a world series winner and stanley cup winner and if you want to talk about a story that is transcendent, the cultural dominance, you have to talk about roger goodell and how he's handled all of these incidents. >> can you talk about everything regarded in this being transformative when you go to 2015 and beyond will there be definitive change? >> i think roger goodell wants

to make it nontransformative. i'm not casting apersions and saying it's a cynical view. this is a man who has worked there all his life and the phrase, protect the shield which is an interesting phrase because the shield is supposed to be protective but pro affective they think that they have to be. he's a guardian of the game. he's doing the will of the owners. that said serious missteps that he acknowledges and has acknowledged in a few press conferences, i got the saints wrong and the ray rice thing wrong. i don't know that he's actually learned the right lessons. i think he will say he has. >> maybe personal transformative as opposed to the whole nfl. >> but i think that he thinks that americans who watch football want him to be the hammer and i don't know that they want that. 90% don't care. the game is so exciting. i understand that. that's not wrong. that's our entertainment and the

guys who do it are great at it. but i think really if you gauge on these issues you don't want him to just punish with maximum force or efficiency. we're going to have someone under me and i'm not going to be the judge and jury and executioner. i think people want a little more fairness. especially the saints bounty case. there is no way that you could say that he settled that fairly. >> let's look ahead to 2015. do you see what might become the biggest sports story? >> the other thing that i have mentioned is fifa. >> it's huge for that part of the world cup. >> yes. and the world cup is a huge story. as we look ahead to brazil and the olympics that is going to be big, i would like more things to come out. they investigated that

insufficiently and here we are still saying popular sport, terrible organization. >> mike pesca, thank you. you didn't mention by boys in blue, the dodgers. i think that's a big story. i'm an l.a. girl. >> back it up. >> okay. we'll talk later. thank you so much. we'll continue to bring you updates on the missing airasia plane and plus the big interviews of 2014.

normally at this hour you can find "up with steve kornacki." you can all catch steve back here next weekend for political coverage. for now, we end this hour with a look back at some of the influential figures who stopped by on saturday and sunday mornings and moments that made 2014 an exciting year. take a look. >> we can bring you new exclusive and startling information. it was a bombshell. bigger unstoppable. it came out of nowhere whoa. moments happen in politics.

the basic response from the christie administration is hey, look she says in these diary entries, she's told steve's show that her relief was tied directly to this rockefeller project and she was so outraged by this. in early 2013. and yet here she is tweeting favorable things about christie has been good for hoboken. how can you believe her if she's saying these nice things then and terrible things happened before. >> the governor came to hoboken and pulled me aside in the parking lot and said i know this is not right. i know these things should not be connected and if you tell anyone i will deny it. >> if elected, you could have the election. >> i'm going to vote with whatever caucus is willing to go to washington and stop trying to solve problems as opposed to pleasing the extremists in their own base. >> you said i wouldn't want the president to come down and campaign with me.

you were talking about mary landrieu. explain why you're saying no to that. >> the president has basically moved further to the left than what my state ever will. i don't agree with his policies. some i do and some i don't. i speak up about that respectfully. >> is that something that you would support if you were in the u.s. senate? >> i am pro-second amendment. when you grew up on a farm like i did and learn how to be around guns and respect it it's important that and does this fit for west virginia? >> what do you think the biggest misconception for nancy pelosi is? >> i don't care what it is because it is a misconception. what i do care about is every time they attack me i raise more money. >> former vice president staunchly defended the interrogation program on a college television station.

>> i was a strong advocate and helped put together the enhanced interrogation program. some people call it torture. it wasn't torture. >> frankly, i was stunned to hear that quote from vice president cheney. if he doesn't think that was torture, i would invite him anywhere here in the united states to sit in a waterboard and go through what those people went through, one of them 100-plus odd times. that's ridiculous to make that claim. this was torture by anybody's definition. >> they make a case that when the republicans took over the senate, you became the chairman of the committee with jurisdiction over the telecommunications committee and basically push through telecommunications reform act but in the process you raised lots and lots of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars. they said in this story, no one used the system better than pressler. when you look at the campaign that you're running now, do you look back and say, i was part of the problem? >> yes, i would say i was part of the problem. >> are there people who are

nervous, though? when there is a sense of panic, are you finding that some people are nervous about having you back as mayor? >> yeah my opponents. >> why is it so hard to work with house republicans today? >> look i think it's rank and file. it's not. we were meeting with the low label folks and charlie dent and we had meetings all during the shutdown with the bipartisan working groupings and i think there was a willingness. i just think that the tea party skewed things to the right. >> you wrote about it in your first book and you seem to be suggesting that, you know wall street kind of got its claws into her. do you still str thathave that concern about her? >> you can ask the question a lot of different ways but i'm going to give the same answer and that is i'm staying focused on the issues in front of us right this minute. >> what i wonder about, when i listen to democrats and this

would include hillary clinton and i know she hasn't said too much specifically. but when i listen to her speak sort of in more broad terms of principle, i principle, i hear what you said pay equity closing the gap between rich and poor in this country, limiting economic inequality i hear that from her and every big named democrat out there. it seems on the core principles i don't hear much difference between you and most other democrats in washington. so where are the differences that would encourage you to run for president? >> really? i have spent my entire political career taking on every special interest. there's one thing for somebody to talk about well we have to expand the middle class, we have to create jobs everybody says that. including republicans. i think what you have to look at the specifics of the program that people are outlining, i will be outlining a very specific program.

>> you are also -- while doing alpha house, extended leave from doneesbury. >> i was stepping aside from the daily script and i would be returning to it after the life of the show. >> will you go back to it? are you confident you will go back to it day to day? >> i don't know. >> lots of questions still to come this morning, but first a heated debate. here's the bottom line question. this is an outlier. . >> you have to grapple with that. >> very flattering. no one i would rather talk to. that does it for us today, have a great week. >> no one we would rather see between the 8:00 and 10:00 a.m. thanks for joining us, msnbc live continues with my colleague francis rivera we want to show you the people who work day and night to bring you news around the country and world. all of us here wish you a very happy new year. ♪

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quitters, you're all quitters! and get $150 credit when you switch to verizon. good morning, good to be about with you here on msnbc, let's go straight to the breaking news overnight. the search for a missing plane. midway from indonesia to singapore, an airasia plane carrying 162 people lost contact with air traffic control. the plane remains missing and relatives are converging at the airport at surabaya hoping for any promising news. they have posted a list of all passengers on flight qz 8501. the search and rescue agency stopped the search as night time fell in the region. search crews are preparing to resume when the sun rises there

in about seven hours. that jet liner had been flying 32,000 feet when the pilot requested to go up and fly at 38,000 feet to avoid a cloud. numerous showers and hail covered the missing jet's flight path. aviation analyst julian bray says it was likely for the pilot impossible to avoid the storms. >> they divert the storm and carry on and it will delay the passengers somewhat but the ride will be a lot easier. this seems to be a series of red ploch blotches on the map. whichever way the pilot went he was bound to encounter one or the other. >> joining me now from london nbc news correspondent, kelly, what kind of outside assistance is being offered to indonesia. >> a number of neighboring countries are offering help singapore, malaysia south

korea, australia, has offered to send a search plane. it is a massive search effort. indonesia deployed eight ships, two helicopters and three airplanes, c-130s from the singapore air force, two will search tomorrow at daylight. three ships from malaysia and a plane. a massive effort to find any sign of this wreckage the problems of course are in this searching. weather is not great, there are heavy showers now. it's night fall very difficult to spot anything at night, although we understand that some of the ships will remain out overnight looking for any sign of this wreckage. most of the passengers on board were indonesian as was the captain, co-pilot was french three south koreans, malaysia british national with his 2-year-old singaporean daughter as well on board the plane. a lot of countries that have already offered aid did have

nationals on board the plane and indonesia is leading the search. dozens are relatives are at the airports hoping for any sort of information but it will be a while since the search isn't going to start again for another several hours. >> heartbreaking given the fact there are 16 children and one infant. no word of americans so far, what we're hearing. thank you very much. we're bringing in the experts to help us sort through the details of this story as they are coming in. joining me from denver former ntsb investigator greg fife and former pilot for u.s. airways and here in new york, michael kay, former helicopter pilot in the royal air force. it's been a long night and morning following this story. greg given what we know so far, what is it that stands out to you at this point? >> i think right now is the

other experts on the panel will talk about, we know that weather appears to be a primary concern and factor in this particular event. the question now is trying to find the wreckage of this aircraft, locate the main debris field and hopefully recover the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder. the longer time passes the harder it gets because with all of the floating debris in the sea state under these thunderstorms and that kind of thing, it starts to spread the wreckage. as soon as first daybreak happens and they can find wreckage, then they have to try to backtrack to find the main debris field. >> john we know that the wreckage will play an important key as to figuring out and filling in the blanks as to what happened here. what can we decipher from the last contact that the pilots had with traffic control and that request to change their altitude from the 32,000 to 38,000 feet? >> well, deviations due to thunderstorms are routine for pilots, a change in altitude

let's them have the opportunity to see better. they have on board weather radar so they have the most current picture of what the weather is actually doing of anybody on the planet. and this weather radar is very up to date. it's tech nologically advanced and pilots are skilled and trained on how to use it. they are able to see the areas where you do not fly through and the airs where it is safe to maneuver around. an increase in the altitude would be absolutely normal and deviation off the intended flight track to stay out of the thunderstorms, those are routine events. so i think right now we don't know what happened. i suspect it occurred very quickly, whatever happened because there was not a call to air traffic. i agree with greg feith that investigators will be looking at weather but we don't have further information or evidence to support anything beyond that.

>> how can they advance this investigation knowing right now that it's been suspended because of night fall in that area? i understand you just got off the phone with some of your sources with some developments here that may be helpful. >> i want to talk about the procedure that the pilots will be going through as they identify the inclement weather. i put sources that are senior within the commercial aviation industry. and they told me that the weather radar that they use -- firstly, the weather in the region isn't unusual, heavy storm cells are not usual. >> and it's monsoon season. >> exactly. >> whether die versions are not unusual either. 160 miles they'll see precipitation, magenta for heavy, green for light precipitation. they get a feeling they have to do something but wait until 18 nautical miles, 20 minutes of flight time. they'll leave it to 18 nautical

miles to work out what it is they are going to do. usually they make a request to air traffic control which will deviate them from the track, maybe ten miles, to get around the system not above it. the usual norm is to go around the system and get back on track as soon as they cleared the weather. >> interesting to see what happened since there was a silence after that request and not hearing from them. greg, i want to ask you what kind of assistance the united states can provide in this investigation. >> right now the ntsb and faa are monitoring events. they don't intend to launch until there's wreckage found. but they need an invitation from the indonesians or whoever is determined to be the lead investigative authority. the ntsc of indonesia is taking on that role that lead role but they have a memorandum of understanding with auzstralia and work well with the singaporeans

and malaysians will be involved and the bea, the french version of the ntsb and their dgac will also be involved. there's a lot of expertise. but the united states stands ready to assist if asked. >> we want to ask you here john, too, especially what we're looking at as far as the area where this was. this airplane as well looking into that was an airbus 320, delivered to airasia in 2008 and last scheduled maintenance november 16th. what does that tell you about this plane? i know there's been talk about metal fatigue that could be a factor in this or maybe not. >> this is what i would call a middle aged airplane. the a-320 has been in service since the middle 1980s. it has a very very good safe and extensive operating history. i flew the airplane for six years. my experience with it is it's a very well designed very well

built airplane. the airplane has not shown any likelihood of metal fatigue, so i don't believe that that will be an issue. there's certainly nothing in the fleet history to indicate that. so with the kind of history, extensive history that the a-320 has had and the maintenance being having been performed on schedule and routinely by airasia, i certainly -- this is something that the investigators will look at but this airplane has a good solid history, based on my experience with it as well well. >> indonesian officials believe the plane went down over the java sea. talk to me about this search zone and the sea floor and what kind of conditions they are experiencing there in their search. >> i think you hit on a really interesting point about the depth of the sea floor.

if we cast our minds back one of the serious problems compounding the search effort was the depths of the ocean off the coast of australia, the deepest ocean in the world. the java sea goes down to 150 meters. in terms of identifying wreckage and those black boxes and voice recorders which remained elusive from mh-370 any search effort will be easier in terms of that. the c-130s being used by the singaporean air force, it's a workhorse and will remind on crews looking out to see other wreckage. there are assets such as the p 8 ori orion and the p-3 is the mare time that is the workhorse. so there are good assets in the region that can be and should be mobileized as daylight come. >> they are hoping the naked eye

being back in the skies over the area as daybreaks and get light out there to help in the search. in the meantime stay with us for this discussion and perspective this morning. thank you so much. michael kay, greg feith, we appreciate it. we're going to have much more on this story throughout the morning here on msnbc, but more strikes on isis and the latest on the jordanian pilots. keep it here.

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first of the funerals for two new york police officers murdered december 20th in brooklyn took place saturday. family and friends and tens of thousands of law enforcement

personnel gathered in queens to remember rafael ramos, he alone with wenjin liu were promoted to the rank of first detective first grade. friction between the mayor and police department played out in dramatic fashion earlier. vice president biden delivered remarks of comfort directed mainly to the family of the fallen officer. >> there's a hymn in my church may he raise you up on eagle's wings and bury you on the breath of dawn and make the sun to shine on you. that's what your father wished for for both of you boys what your father wished for for this city. >> now the mayor of new york city bill de blasio had said was welcome at the funeral also spoke as mayor spoke hundreds of

uniformed officers turned their backs on his image as it was broadcast on screen outside the church. the protest was reminiscent of a similar one directed at the mayor the night of the shooting and came after the mayor implored those advocating for police reform cease demonstrations until after the funerals. in response the deputy press secretary offered only this statement to wnbc the ramos and liu families our police department and city are dealing with an unconscionable tragedy, our sole focus is unifying this city and honoring the lives of our two police officers. joining me now is mike santora, reporter for "the new york times."" i know you attended many a police officer funeral but this one in so many ways really had such a different tone in tension and heartbreak. >> it was extraordinary, not just the turnout, 25,000 people and they were there to pay

tribute to this one officer, but also more broadly as police officers in general both here in the city and across the country, they've sort of felt under siege with the protest first in ferguson and here. those protests while broadly about the criminal justice system have taken a personal tone about the police officers in those communities. >> did it come as a surprise that many of the police officers turned their backs outside of the image they are broadcasting on the screen, especially given the fact that the mayor had said let's put this aside from day one, the night of the shootings, let's focus on families and mourning and burying them. >> i think at the hospital when the mayor went there to see the family and turned backs in the hallway, we thoutd that was just extraordinary, never seen anything like that. i think maybe this turning the back thing got in people's head as a thing they do to express disappointment. i'm surprised you see it at the funeral but emotions are high.

>> here's what was said when questioned about the protest after the funeral yesterday. take a listen to that. >> the feelings are strong. the feelings of betrayal are strong. nonetheless, we come here today to mourn and we'll debate tomorrow. >> feelings are strong the word betrayal is also a very strong word when referencing that. why is it -- and i know this stems back a long way and we'll delve into that. why the betrayal by the mayor? >> he was one of the people in day one to accuse the mayor of having blood on his hands. this goes back to the campaign, the mayor ran against a tactic -- >> stop and frisk. >> and police saw it as anti-police. since he's become mayor they felt he hasn't had their back particularly as protest started, he would speak about the right of the protesters but never really condemn the more vicious language that the protesters were using. >> you have to factor in the many other dimensions we're

talking a police contract. that's there also percolating and pending as well. then fueled also about some of the mayor's remarks over his son, soon after the eric garner and decision not to indict that attitude. >> every mayor battles with police unions. but this seems more personal in ways and i think you're right, bringing up his son and i think the police feel 20 years crime coming down not getting credit they deserve from this mayor who only focused on this story to talk about his son. there's a lot of repair to do. >> i want to bring in capital new york reported about the conflict and police union, pat lynch, this is the quote there, the mayor's battle with the patrolman's association began in earnest when de blasio as a candidate and city's public advocate supported two bills to reign in what we were just talking about, the use of stop and frisk last year. lynch didn't take kindly to a liberal politician criticizing

how officers do their jobs. i know there's been a lot of fuel to this tension leading to where we are now. is he essentially paying the price for opposing stop and frisk as part of that came way back in 2013? >> i think there are professional police officers who years after stop and frisk didn't mind reform of the policy. it was how it went about, the way he said it. in the campaign he had to sort of separate himself from the other democratic candidate. some of his language was probably more strident then they would have liked. >> in the short time we have what was the essential sentiment from the activists and people protesting to see suddenly now the police on that end with their own protest against the mayor? >> i think none of us -- i've covered wars and other things and never seen a soldier turn their back on a commander, it's a striking gesture and we're waiting to see after this week and mourning period passes what happens next politically. >> and also what happens next with officer liu is buried. we're waiting for family members to travel from china and there

will be another funeral for him. thank you so much for the discussion this morning. marc santora, we appreciate it. this morning former president george h.w. bush remains hospitalized. what more we're learning on the missing air asia plane with 162 people on board. why we switched to charmin ultra mega roll. charmin ultra mega roll is 75% more absorbent so you can use less with every go. plus it even lasts longer than the leading thousand sheet brand. charmin ultra mega roll. introducing... a pm pain reliever that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪

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not all toothbrushes are created equal, oral-b toothbrushes are engineered with end rounded bristles so brushing doesn't scratch gums and angled perfectly to remove 90% of plaque for a healthier smile. trust the brand more dentists and hygienists use. oral-b. the latest on george h.w. bush who has been in a houston texas hospital since tuesday night after experiencing shortness of breath. nbc news correspondent jacob rascon has more. what can you tell us about the former president's condition. >> reporter: a spokesman says his condition improved to the point that doctors are talking about dates from the discharge. this is a six-day at houston methodist. every day we get an update saying he is improving and making progress but never to the point they talk about letting

him go. at 90 years old, the oldest living former president. we know he suffers from a form of park inson's disease that makes it difficult for him to speak. he's had health scares before. it was two christmases ago he spent two months at houston methodist suffering from bronchitis and persistent cough. this time around it was on tuesday he was taken by ambulance to the hospital after he had some trouble breathing. we're told he spent christmas week with family at the hospital. those family members no doubt are relieved at this latest news. >> jacob, i'm sure they are hoping he will be with the family for the end of 2014 and start of 2015, jacob rascon thank you. we want to bring you the latest on the breaking news we've been covering overnight and all morning long. the disappearance of an airasia flight with 162 people on

board. search operations have been suspended because of darkness. it was bound from surabaya to singapore when it lost contact with air traffic control. the cockpit crew inform the air traffic controllers they were planning to rise to a higher altitude from 32,000 feet to 38,000 feet to avoid bad weather shortly before contact was lost. here's the thing, there was no distress signal from the plane. and so far the search focused on an area in the java sea near the plane's last known location. relatives of the passengers there gathered at the airport in indonesia. the search for the plane is expected to resume at daylight. joining me now once again, michael kay, former helicopter pilot in the royal air force. thanks for being with us and staying with us throughout the morning here. important to note this is still a search and rescue operation, not such and recovery as they go through the overnight hours with suspended search from the air.

we know there was bad weather there. and that request to exchange altitude and flight path but no distress call. what does that tell you? >> that's absolutely right. what it tells me is whatever happened, happened very quickly. the usual protocol in emergency, the crews are taught they are bred to actually act and afiate navigate, communicate matter when any emergency happens. the call would come if the form of may day, may day may day three times so people would hear it. there's nothing going out on the transponder and in an emergency they would put 7700 and flash up on the radar screen on what's called the mo charlie which indicates the height of the aircraft and tell the world there was an emergency. there wasn't any of that. this overdue action why or how do search and rescue operations, how are they initiated? it is through a process called

overdue action. it should be taken by air traffic control authorities talking to the airport on three counts. the first one is if it's overdue at the estimated time of arrival, but at the reporting point by 30 minutes, if it's overdue by 30 minutes and authorities aren't speaking to the aircraft the aircraft isn't on radar and can't see it on radar, that's when the overdue aksz procedure is taken. >> that's what happened in that case. we're looking ahead and they are trying to factor in what they have from or didn't have as far as air traffic control and looking for that wreckage which would really fill in so many blanks. talk about how complicated this would be in that kind of search area, very different we have to point out from malaysia 370, correct? >> the topography in terms of depth of the ocean are very, very different. mh-370 was a long way away from

land and radar. this aircraft was in the middle of the java sea, it's also got indonesia to the west. it's in relative proximity, i think what's really interesting with this is the when the search and rescue operations take place, what they'll do is zone in on the last reported contact with the airplane which we know is in between south born yo and island off indonesia. they will have to come up with baseline assumptions and work on what was the endurance of the aircraft so the aircraft is traveling at 400 knots they have to assume an altitude and give them endurance and range. and if they draw a circle. >> michael kay, thank you so much for the insight, you're staying with us throughout the morning. we'll check back in with you for more here. thank you. we have much more on breaking news. still to come here this morning

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bye! welcome back more now on missing flight qz8501. it lost contact with air traffic control from indonesia to singapore. there has been no sign of the plane since 162 people, most indonesia indonesian were on board, including 16 children and one infant. bad weather in the area showers and thunderstorms forced the crew to request a deviation from its planned flight path just before losing contact, but no distress call was ever made. the search in that area the java sea has been suspended for the night and will resume in the morning. joining me now is anthony roman, ceo of roman and associates an faa licensed pilot and former flight instructor and captain

ron neilson, a former commercial airline pilot as we said. thank you both. anthony, so many questions about what happened this morning and what are the possibilities out there. it strikes me there was no distress call. could weather be so severe it can cause immediate kas strofic damage to the plane? >> level five thunderstorms can be that severe they can take down this kind of aircraft and the various factors within the thunderstorm are updrafts and down drafts which can exceed the climb and descent capability of the aircraft. catastrophic hail can cause a compressor stall or flame out of both engines and damage to the windshield and damage to the structural integrity of the aircraft. you also can have such severe turbulence that it just exceeds the total design limits of the aircraft and there is structural

failure. >> literally break this aircraft. >> yes, it could be that -- >> you've experienced this yourself in saying this is a probably unlike anything for us as commercial passengers have ever experienced but that is a possibility. >> regrettably, i have experienced in the past entering a thunderstorm that developed around our aircraft wasn't present before there were no additional thunderstorms in the area. and it was just a freak weather incident in the caribbean. and so we had our hands full and it was only a level one thunderstorm. and there was no time to communicate when the controller attempted to communicate with us, we told him, we have no time we'll be back to you in a moment. and we were afiating trying to gain control of the aircraft. when a captain faces that kind of bad weather, is the decision-making process in choosing to change a flight plan there or change altitude? >> that's interesting because one of the things that i worked

on in the majority of my career was human factors and that is teaching the crew about the psychology and dynamics of how they interact between themselves and how they interact with technology. nobody -- no pilot i've ever known got up in the morning thinking this could be a day changing my life here nor did the passengers. so when anthony was talking about, the real thing is not so much the question of what the airplane will do it's what went on in the crew's mind when faced with this situation. they went from as we say being fat, dumb and happy and encountered this weather that got their attention and something happened -- the only thing we can say for sure something happened to interrupt their flow and they were no longer talking about anybody and disappeared from radar. that's of course what makes it such an interesting story because it's so far out of the norm. >> and you've got to factor in

also this plane we're talking of an airbus 3220. they are saying this should be a sturdy thing, shouldn't be anything wrong with it. but we have to talk about what metal fatigue here and how that may play in. >> the faa issued an air worthiness directive, which is actually an order that within a specified period of time the aircraft had to be inspected for cracks in the fuselage and structural fasteners in the aircraft. so this aircraft did have some evidence not this particular aircraft but the series of the model had evidence of structural issues that really needed a little bit of extra attention. >> that is alarming in that sense. i want to talk about the search area over the java sea, you hear

missing jet liner, missing plane. hate it comes to mind but mh370 comes to mind as well but there is a difference in the sea floor, the ocean floor there. i'm sure that comes into play what they may learn from that search and this one. >> absolutely. they'll put into play everything that they've learned up until this point and in the industry we have -- there's a term called necessary foulability, even though air aviation is the safest way to travel on the planet we'll still have accidents from time to time. and it's what we learn from those accidents that makes flying so safe in the future. it looks -- appears in this point in time this is going to be one of those accidents that's going to add to our data base and find out, no matter what went wrong in the great thing about the time and year we live in is that we'll learn what caused this accident and we'll be able to learn in the future. >> sure and hopefully we'll learn in the near future with that search resuming when the

sun comes up and daylight hits that area. we thank you, ron neilsen in arizona and anthony roman here in new york. anthony, we appreciate you sticking around. >> the latest on a jordanian pilot now in the hands of isis militants.

[coughing] dave, i'm sorry to interrupt... i gotta take a sick day tomorrow. dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil. the nighttime, sniffling sneezing, coughing aching, fever, best sleep with a cold medicine. msnbc staying on top of breaking news overnight and tracking the latest developments in the story of the missing airasia flight carrying 162 passengers when it disappeared over the java sea 15 hours ago. we want to turn to kelly cobiella. what can you tell us about the global response? >> offers of help are coming from from malaysia australia and ntsb said we need us if a

request comes in they are willing to travel to help with the investigation. the indonesian vice president is coordinating the effort and said after ten hours of searching, no sign so far of wreckage and also said that search will resume in the morning weather permitting. weather is an issue still there with heavy showers. the indonesian military and search and rescue agency had ships and planes and helicopters looking for ten hours today. we're expecting to see more assets put into the search tomorrow from singapore and possibly other countries as well. >> hopefully that results in more clues and wreckage and answers for them as well. kelly, thank you very much. >> turning now to the latest in the fight against the terror group known as isis the u.s.-led coalition pummeling isis with air strikes for the past three months suffered a loss when isis fighters captured a jordanian pilot.

pictures were shown of him being dragged away from a body of water. the father pleaded for mercy for release of his son with a religious appeal to the cap tors. today that coalition continues its air campaign with eight air strikes in syria and five against targets in iraq. today the tact follows on the heels of 12 air strikes in syria yesterday and 39 air strikes launched against isis by the coalition on thursday and friday. for more on the missing pilot and fight against isis let's turn to kevin baron, joining me from the washington bureau. >> good morning. >> let's start with this. how does the capture of this jordanian pilot complicate the coalition strategy against isis? >> i don't know it plays into the grand strategy. the pentagon has said for a while this is going to be a dangerous mission. there's a reason the pentagon

wants countries in the region to take part in the fight. the only thing they've been insistent upon they did not shoot down the pilot and it was a technical error. >> let's talk about the air strikes, more than 60 air strikes by the coalition in the last three days. the criticism of air strikes has been evident. in that sense, the air strike campaign, how is that in accomplishing the president's stated goal of degrading and destroying isis while he made it clear no boots on the ground? >> that's right, according to the pentagon they say this has done some of the job, the air strikes have stopped the advance of isis you don't hear them getting cloegser to baghdad anymore, it disrupted their networks and forced them underground. used to see them in columns of convoys running across the desert and made life harder for

them. that said there's been a lot of air strikes, over 1500 and billion dollars by one count. so what is this getting the campaign? is it doing enough? it's not going to be the end of the campaign either don't forget, the pentagon already announced the administration announced 1500 more u.s. troops on the way into iraq next year starting next month. they kill still be consider the advise and assist mission, so that let's the white house off the hook in saying they are not really combat troops. but it's a tenuous line that there are few people that really believe at some point this is combat this is a war. whether the u.s. -- someone is pulling trigger or allies from other countries, this is a war that's escalating and will take a lot of time as the pentagon has been saying over and over again it's going to take a long time. months and years to stabilize this region much less turn the tide and push back isis and

start a real campaign not just in iraq but in syria. >> and those who say it was just inevitable, the f-16 was the first war plane lost by the coalition since the air strikes began. what does the pilot's capture tell us about conducting the air strikes. >> it reminds me of the call for a no fly zone which we've heard for a couple of years, renewed this fall. people like adam kinsinger, former pilot himself, iraq war veteran, the chairman of the joint chiefs mentioned it openly. he doesn't advocate for it and keeps his role as military adviser but said this is something something always on the table. it's something that turkey wants. something like a no fly zone will result in this and more casualties of some kind. these are very expensive operations. they put our soldiers and airmen in danger. no doubt about it. and even in a no fly zone it's

not just sending in aircraft to patrol the skies, to do that you have to take out the ground air defenses. to do that requires cruise missile strikes and a lot more. you have to hold that defense and hold that ground. this has been the kind of next step that the administration has been so hesitant about doing and others like john mccain and some people in the military and allies like turkey have begged for. >> kevin baron, thank you for that discussion this morning. up next we're switching gears here, football player michael sam is making news again. what a year it's been in the sports world and we'll delve into that next.

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a month. comcast business. built for business. new year's day this coming thursday college football's annual show case and this year it's different, the brand-new college football playoff makes its debut promising a true national champion for first

time. one of the final four crimson tide and ducks and seminoles or buckeyes take home the title but technically that's next year. this year sports ranging stories from michael sam, first openly gay college football player selected in the draft to the return of lebron james to the cavaliers to the surging awareness of domestic abuse after controversies involving player like ray rice and adrian peterson. also the damage done to the nfl's brand and commissioner roger goodell's image. here to discuss is jason page host of up late with jason page on sports radio. we're talking on the heavy side and serious side there's so much more factored in in the world of sports let's start with that and little bit of what michael sam said about other gay nfl players in an interview with oprah winfrey that aired on her

network own. >> very few reached out to me -- >> very few meaning one, two, three, five? >> very few reached out to me. and pretty much just told me the gratitude and how they were thankful that i had the courage to -- they wished they had the courage to come out. >> it's not huge breaking news here that there are more proathletes who are gay other than sam out there. do you think we're getting closer to a culture where these players can be openly gay during their careers and not have it be an issue other than how they play in the field? >> i think we're closer but we're still so far away. when you look at what happened with michael sam, drafted, goes to the rams and into training camp. everything that occurs during training camp the documentary he said he was going to do which raised a lot of attention and eyebrows people saying we don't want that sort of attention, not necessarily the gay aspect of it but somebody doing a documentary. >> the distraction?

>> the distraction of being not necessarily being openly gay -- i don't want people to misinterpret what i'm saying the distraction of having cameras around chronicling -- >> that comes with it right? >> teams don't want that sort of, again, i hate to use the word distraction, not his being gay a distraction. he came out and first thing he said was i want to be michael sam the football player. why are you doing a documentary with oprah before you've even played a snap in the nfl? didn't make sense to me. >> some say it's to help other players out there and open up the culture a little bit more -- >> he could have done that in other ways. i don't think doing -- i don't think the documentary was the way to go. let me just say this real quick, i think his coming out in the nfl was heavily managed to the point it was mismanaged. the pr people and howard bragmans in the world saying we want to do this from a p.r. perspective and this way -- >> maybe the other pro teams

will learn as well. >> they'll learn, yes. >> let's talk about ray rice and adrian peterson huge headlines. would you say the damage is really done by the nfl here? are they so bruised when it comes to this they can't recover, especially with roger goodell? >> they'll always be able to recover. one thing we learned the women's rights groups -- and i've talked about this with the people the national organize of women myself. the biggest problem is nobody had the stomach to stick out this fight and stomach to go to the sponsors and say we're going to boycott your product. so therefore the sponsors weren't going to pull out. if the sponsors aren't going to pull out, the nfl still has all of its leverage quickly. >> ray rice, will he play again? >> yes. >> do you know who? >> no. >> madison bumgarner, would he get your vote?

>> no i would go with clayton kershaw or leb bron james. he had a great postseason but clinton kershaw had a historic 162 game regular season. >> we've to talk about females in sports especially this girl changing the way we look at it monet davis. what long term effects as far as other females -- >> evolution, it's evolution. you have female athletes bigger stronger than ever the same way male athletes bigger, stronger than ever, you have female athletes coming along bigger and stronger than ever. it's only a matter of time before we see a breakthrough. >> college playoff, who's taking it? hurry, come on? >> oregon. >> he called it oregon. jason page thanks for being with us. in our next hour here on msnbc live we hope you keep it here. it has been nearly 16 hours since an airasia flight lost

contact with air traffic control with 162 people on board. we'll bring the latest on the search and what may have caused problems for the pilot. stay with us. sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry in to the sign then drive event and get a five-hundred dollar new year's bonus on select new volkswagen models. offer ends january 2nd.

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experience the meta effect with our new multi-health wellness line. ♪ ♪ good morning, good to you with you let's get straight to the breaking news overnight. the search for a missing plane about midway through its flight from indonesia to singapore, an airasia plane carrying 162 people lost contact with air traffic control. that was 16 hours ago and at this moment the plane remains missing. relatives of the passengers are converging at the airport in surabaya indonesia hoping for any promising news they have posted a list of all passengers on board qz8501. the international search and rescue agency stopped the search as night fell. search is scheduled to resume in seven hours. the jet liner had been flying at

about 32,000 feet when the pilot requested to go up to 38,000 to avoid a cloud. forecasters tell nbc news numerous shower and hail cover the flight path. kelly, what kind of assistance is being offered to indonesia right now? >> well offers of help are coming in from around the world really from malaysia, united states, from australia, today pope francis said he's praying for those on board the air asia flight and for their families. with affection and prayers i'm close to their family members and those who are living through these difficult situations as well as those who are involved in the rescue operations. today the ntsb national transportation safety board, offered assistance not yet been taken up by the indonesians leading the effort. a number of neighboring countries are sending in ships and planes and helicopters to

start with the search tomorrow morning, australia, singapore, all offering help. by tomorrow there could be as many as 11 ships and six planes and helicopters involved as well. they want everyone to understand this is still a search and rescue operation. it's not a recovery operation. >> certainly heartbreaking given the fact that the airline says there are 16 children and one infant on board. what else do we know about the passengers' nationalities? >> most were indonesian, no americans on board. the co-pilot was french a south korean couple with their 12-month-old daughter on board. a british national with his 2-year-old daughter from singapore on that plane. and all 16 children and baby as you mentioned. nbc news was able to get in touch with one man whose brother and sister-in-law and three children were all on that flight on the way to singapore for a short vacation. he told nbc news i am

devastated. i can't ask for a better brother. we love each other deeply. an agonizing few hours ahead at the very least as they wait for the search to resume. >> and even more difficult as we hear more of those personal stories from those families involved. thank you. we're bringing in experts to help sort through the details of this search joining me from denver former ntsb investigator john feith and john cox, former pilot for u.s. airways, thanks for being with us this morning. we want to start with you, greg given the fact the search has been suspended until daylight tomorrow with those research coming in. what can be done as far as the investigation and making this productive during the overnight hours? >> i think there's two parts to this one they are going to have

to chore graph the search effort you can't take surface based assets like ships and send them out. there's got to be some logic to the search area and how they are going to conduct the search especially once first light happens and they can determine whether or not they can launch aircraft to aid in the search. the second part is of course trying to gather as much information from the airline about the flight about how they dispatch the flight and weather information that the flight crew had and the in route information that the flight crew was receiving and try to understand why the crew deviated the direction they deviated in and believe they could climb over the top or up to 38,000 feeltd to get through an area of this line of thunderstorms. >> what kind of specific information can they piece together given the fact they did make the call as far as changing altitude? also changing their flight path as well and all of a sudden they

disappear, no distress call here. what can you take from that? >> i think the deviation, both in altitude and the route is very normal. that's something pilots do as a matter of routine when there are thunderstorms obstructing their intended route of flight. as far as the additional attitude, if you climb up a bit, it let's you see visually where the individual thunderstorm cells are and that combined with the on board weather radar gives you a more complete picture. the fact that there was no call to air traffic control indicating a problem says whatever occurred occurred to them very quickly and that they were doing things other than talking. if there is an on board problem, the first thing you want to do is fly the airplane and handle it. talking to air traffic control is at least number three on the list. it says we've got an event that occurred quickly. it says it task saturated the

pilots. up until that point, the deviation around the weather, this is something other airplanes in the area were doing, it's a matter of routine, doesn't cause me much in the way of concern. the lack of radio call that's something that the investigators will look at. >> sure, certainly alarming. what kind of assistance can the united states provide to the investigation? >> right now the ntsb and faa are on stand by waiting to hear from the indonesians and they need a letter of invite. they have the experts that can help them with regards to the aircraft black boxes and reconstruction of any of the aircraft structure. but the indonesian or national transportation safety committee, similar to our ntsb has a lot of resources that they have available to them through the malaysians and singaporeans, the bea which has a very good track record as an investigative authority, will be involved.

and of course you know malaysia will be there as well. the ntsb can offer the assistance with the faa if requested, the united states of course, if they are requested, they can provide aerial assets and surface assets if they are in the area. >> let's focus in on this plane specifically the airbus a-3220. they got it in 2008 last scheduled maintenance in november. >> airbus put out some information today that said every two seconds an a-320 takes off or lands around the world. it's a very widely used airplane and entered original service in mid-1980s and enjoyed a very very good record. it's a safe airplane. i flew it as a captain for a number of years. i had great confidence in the

airplane, well designed. the airasia maintenance is known to be very good. they work carefully and collectively with airbus to make sure that the airplanes are maintained properly. so i think that these are areas that obviously the investigators will look at but the history of the airplane is very good and the history of the airasia maintenance is pretty good. >> greg tell us more about that, around that area we understand that the sea -- ocean floor isn't too deep as far as comparing it to mh370, but also we have to keep in mind the weather is hugely impacting the area here it's monsoon season. what more do they need to consider? >> that's the big issue right now, trying to get all of the search assets out there. the big thing here is that because it's night time and because the weather is as it is

as far as sea state, choppy seas, you'll move a lot of floating debris further and further away from the impact point. they'll need to backtrack based on sea state where the main debris field may be and figure how deep it is and what assets will be needed to get an rov or other device to the sea floor and hopefully find the remnants of the aircraft and the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder. all of that will take time. hopefully tomorrow during daylight the weather will clear and allow at least an aerial search to pinpoint a more focused search area. >> let me go out there and ask you this. where you stand in your expertise, would you be surprised if this plane as far as wreckage and maybe the black box recorder is not found within the next 24 hours? >> i think history shows us that we will find it.

the question is not if we'll find it but more likely when. within the next 24 hours, i think it depends on the sea state as greg indicates. >> wish we had more time we've got to move on. we're going to be with you -- >> no problem. >> thank you so much. greg feith and john cox, appreciate the expertise. police officers versus city hall, the dramatic display at the funeral for murdered nypd officer. we used to have so many empty rolls! mom! that's why we switched to charmin ultra mega roll. charmin ultra mega roll is 75% more absorbent so you can use less with every go.

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>> new york city police officer rafael ramos was the first of the two new york police officers murdered december 20th in brooklyn to be funeralized when family and friends and politicians and thousands of law enforcement officers gathered in queens saturday morning. vice president joe biden delivered remarks at the service offering comfort to the two

young sons of the 40-year-old officer. >> justin and jaden, know that although your father is gone you have inherited an entire family men and women of the new york police department will always be there as long as you are alive. they never, they never never forget. >> soon afterwards the mayor of new york city bill de blasio addressed mourners and legions of uniformed officers turned his back on the image as it was broadcast on screens. the protest was reminiscent of a similar one directed at the mayor the night of the shooting and came after de blasio implored those advocating for police reform cease protest under after the funerals. bill bratton appeared on this morning's meet the press and

says he believes the rif will go on a while longer and said this when asked about african-americans concerns about police. >> their perception is the reality we have to deal with. there's no denying that among the black community there are those concerns in policing that sometimes it's difficult to see those. i made comments yesterday in knew you'llology about seeing each other to understand. that means not look past each other but really see what is motivating what we're experiencing. >> joining us now from our washington, d.c. bureau leslie lowery and also from nashville, nbc news and msnbc analyst jim kavanaugh. welcome here to this discuss. what was your reaction as a former law enforcement officer to the police officers turning their backs on the mayor's

eulogy and that banner flown over new york city from retired officers but now doing it at the funeral? >> right, francis, you know emotions are running high and certainly in the ranks of police nationwide, i think it's a mistake basically to hurl public insults at political leaders. it makes you look small when you hurt insults and the police really are large. there are a large great force for good. and the nypd is a great organization. i think it's sort of a little bit beneath them to do it. i would think they should reassess that position and after officer liu's funeral, i would like to see commissioner bratton said today on "meet the press" see a rereconciliation movement to start with between the unions and police leadership and mayor but also the larger leadership and citizens in new york to stop this. we have got huge issues to deal with and let's stop this.

>> on the other sense though a huge turnout though. what a show of support for officer ramos yesterday when so many other officers coming from all over the country really is a particular moment for police in our country. what do you think the mood is from their perspective over all as all members of law enforcement watch this? >> well they feel and certainly law enforcement feels the pressure of all of the issues in front of the public. there's legitimate questions here of force and police have to admit that. the hardest part for instance is always admitting wrongs of your own group. you know you have to admit there is cases of excessive force. and when the public sees that the police seem to admit there's never a case never a case of excessive force, then that makes the public upset. the police need to admit there is certain circumstances of excessive force. there is also the justified use of force like we saw in berkeley, missouri where a young man pointed a gun at the officer and the officer killed

him. also on the other side demonstrators have to speak out and leadership of the organizations, naacp, national action network and they have spoke out to see they condemn violence and calls for violence. we need -- a lot of times we're saying the same things but not listening to each other. we need to come together and listen. >> let's consider the perspective of the protesters wesley, the black lives matter protest here in new york asked by the mayor not to protest during a time of mourning for officers until after they were buried. how are people in the police movement acting to the cops staging their own protest and at a funeral at that? >> of course, i think a lot of -- i talked to protest leaders in new york and as well as st. louis and cleveland and places like that the last 24 hours, a lot of them pointed to this listen these officers or union leaders officers and potentially mayor de blasio didn't want us to continue

protesting and yet the officers carry out an active protest as is their right at this funeral. i think a lot of people among the black lives matter umbrella were very frustrated and said we told you so they were trying to keep us quiet but at the same time they wanted to be able to do their act of protest. so there is in some ways the idea of is this in some sort of way a double standard. is there some level of for a long time the protesters have argued that the powers that be that the police have been trying to silence them to ask them to stop marching and protesting and carry out an active protest at the funeral of the officer, i think a reasonable person might question if there's some type of double standard there. >> jim let's factor in the tensions here. when police officers are in open conflict with city hall like this and even stemming back to even the mayor took office there, when you consider the moment of tragedy and then that conflict intention is still heavily felt what kind of impact do you think it has on

communities that they police? >> it does have an impact great impact. protests are at their core a call for change. whether that's a protest from citizens or protest from police it's a call for change. so are the leaders listening for change and are the protesters and police willing to change. the great admonition you have to be the change that you want to see in the world. your protesting you want change are you willing to change yourself? i think if we think about it that way and listen and bridge the gap, new york is a great city, can lead the way. police are needed and the communities want police. it's a false narrative to say minority communities don't want and support police. protesting against excessive force is not condemning police officers. statements for violence though supporting violence to murder arson or burn or hurt police

that's a whole different matter and those people should be stopped and arrested and rooted out. legitimate marches for civil rights against excessive force, we all need to listen to that and need to listen to our police as well. >> running out of time here i want to ask in 30 seconds, the overshadowed by the funerals was this other protest in brooklyn a crowd gathered there marching to protest the fatal nypd shooting of an unarmed -- how do you see this movement being affected by the movement of the officers if at all? >> i don't think it will be. many people who were not in support of the movement and protest will continue to not be in support of the movement. people looking for a rb to undermine the credibility, this may give it to them. what we've seen even in the shooting in berkeley missouri where antonio martin was believed to have had a gun, we saw rallying around him. what these young protesters and groups have shown, they are not going to be swayed from this

even in cases where it may not be the perfect narrative or fit. they want more answers from police officers in cases of shootings and more accountability. >> we thank you for the discussion this morning. >> thanks very much. >> coming up we'll have the latest on missing airasia plane with 162 people on board.

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phone network and week of disruptions in internet access. north korea state run news agency blamed the united states from the disruptions and lashed out at president obama comparing him to quote, a monkey in a tropical forest. white house officials called the comments particularly ugly and disrespectful. the international disruptions come days after president obama pointed the finger at north korea and vowed retaliation for the hacks against sony. that was intended to stop the release of the interview, featuring an assassination plot against kim jong-un. new developments in the fight against the terror group known as isis the u.s.-led coalition that waged an air campaign against isis for the last three months continued pummeling the group with eight air strikes in syria and five against targets in iraq. today's attack follows 50 since thursday. it also comes as an member of

coalition, a jordanian pilot whose plane crashed during an air raid has been captured and now in the hands of isis fighters. for now i want to turn to the fellow and managing director and middle east affairs at the national security council, joining us this morning from our washington bureau. mike good morning to you. >> good morning. >> we know isis relied on this propaganda to spread its message and we know how sophisticated and high quality those videos and pamphlets are here. how big of a propaganda victory is the capture of this pilot? isis has relied on propaganda to create psychological effects and intimidate public and places it operates and we can expect them to do the same using this jordanian pilot, to shake the resolve and jordan has been a

very strong ally very involved in this fight against terrorism and fight against isis in particular. i think this is something that regrettably we can expect. >> and what is your take as far as how this hostage will be treated or how the coalition may go about, given the fact the brutality we've seen when they take people and others into hostage, what is your take on that and what may happen? >> clearly isis is a brutal group and don't adhere to anything resemble the laws of war. the hearts and thoughts go out to this pilot, he isespecially there's worry about his circumstances and fate and our hearts and thoughts and prayers go to the people of jordan and this family in particular. >> especially making pleas for his safe release. let's talk about the strategy more than 60 air strikes against isis by the u.s. led coalition, how effective has the air strike campaign been in accomplishing the president's stated goal, to

degrade and destroy isis, he is special liply with criticism that air strikes aren't enough. >> it's tough to determine what progress is being made. killed quite a few jihadists and continued to attract foreign fighters to their ranks but the problem has been slow as the administration said it would be in part because it relies not just on air strikes but on political efforts in iraq to sort of build up security forces, to create a more inclusive government there. those are by their very nature slow sort of tracks of this effort. we've seen more progress in iraq where the expansion of isis is largely stopped. they've been rolled back around the kurdish areas even as they've consolidated gains near baghdad. i think the bigger problem in our strategy is syria. it's hard to see too many tangible gains for the united states and coalition right now. >> i wanted to ask you about

this military ceremony in afghanistan marks the end of the 13-year war in that country. with that development, what comes next for afghanistan? >> i think as people think about what comes next for afghanistan, they should keep in mind what's happening now in iraq and syria xgt our objective in afghanistan needs to be to protect and consolidate and extend the gains we've seen as a result of now this decade plus long effort. i think it's important that we reconsider the plans to totally withdraw troops by 2016 and think about what we need to do to ensure our national and security interests shall protected and gains made by the afghan people and coalition troops are in fact protected and not just make decisions based purely on domestic politics. i think both the president and candidates in 2016 need to make the case of the american people for who is the right sustainable level of investment in afghanistan. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> we'll go live to hawaii to get details on the obama

administration's reaction to the missing airasia plane. our coverage of this breaking story continues next. used sleep mode when they weren't using it how much could we save on electricity each year? up to $1 billion? $3 billion? $4.5 billion? the answer is... up to $4.5 billion. using your computer's built-in energy-saving features can generate real household savings. take the energy quiz -- round 2. energy lives here. get ready for some german engineered holiday excitement. at the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. right now, for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a new volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta and the precisely engineered passat tdi. ah, the gift of clean diesel. for the new volkswagen on your list this year just about all you need, is a pen. festive, isn't it? hurry in to the sign then drive event and get a five-hundred dollar new year's bonus on select new

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cascade. now that's clean. we want to update on the missing airasia flight it has been 16 hours since they lost contact with the plane. search efforts have not turned up any sign of the plane since 162 people were on board, 155 of them passengers including 16 children and one infant. according to officials, the crew was attempting to avoid bad weather and requested a deviation from its planned flight path just before losing contact and no distress call was ever made. the search is in the java sea and suspended for night and will resume in the morning. senior white house correspondent chris jansing is in honolulu traveling with the president. good morning to you and has the president been briefed on this story?

and what if anything is the administration doing to help in the efforts? >> reporter: good morning the press has been briefed and will be kept updated. already the u.s. does stand ready to help. a spoekdsman for ntsb says they are also monitoring search for the missing plane and ready to assist indonesians if needed. we don't know if the president reached out personally. after arriving here he did play golf with the prime minister of malaysia happened to be vacationing here. there's a personal relationship. this is all too familiar just nine months after the malaysia airlines jet liner disappeared over the indian ocean despite an exhaustive search there, never been found. this plane also has a malaysia connection operated by an affiliate of a regional budget air carrier based in malaysia. we don't want to jump to conclusions, this is early in the search for the flight. but authorities cannot explain why the airasia flight disappeared from radar screens.

you might remember the u.s. became heavily involved in the search for malaysia 370 and spent millions of dollars and many resources, including two u.s. aircraft to help with the search bluefin under water vehicle and navy sent a supply ship with the pinger locater but for immediate purposes indonesia has a lot of experience in search and rescue. they have a pretty sophisticated capability which is important because it's a complicated degraphic terrain. white house officials don't expect a further statement however if there is any formal request for u.s. help we'll keep you updated from here. >> we appreciate that chris jansing in honolulu hawaii. joining me now is anthony roman, ceo of roman and associates and faa commercial licensed pilot who has been watching this story overnight and into the morning as it's been developing here. we thank you for being with us. let's talk about this especially given the fact the

weather scenario and changed the at tuld to 38,000 feet and diverted from the flight plane. yet there was no distress call. what does that tell you? >> it tells us the pilots were very, very busy. may have had a catastrophic failure as a result of weather. these storms reached 60,000 feet. they go straight into the stratosphere and in comparative size an aircraft airliner is simply a speck in the face of that energy. if they encountered one of these storms, the crew would have been busy trying to save the aircraft and probably lost that fight. >> also given the fact that the weather there was tu multiuous at that time factor in what you call metal fatigue and that looks into the structure of the fuselage and what may have happened there. >> the a-300 series suffers an air worthiness directive issued by the faa in 2013 relative to

fuselage fatigue cracks that could in extreme cases result in structural failure of the aircraft. the faa does mandate that the repairs to those -- the inspections and repairs to those fuselage cracks be completed within a set period of time before the aircraft flies again. >> and you know firsthand flying through thunderstorms that they really could be that strong to literally break the fuselage and break a plane. >> these storms have winds, vertical winds go up and down that can exceed any airlines climb capability any airlines' descent capability. they have large hail sometimes softball sized hail. they can cause a compressor stall in both of the engines. it can wreak havoc on an airliner. >> really alarmer to hear that. as we know this is a search and

rescue operation still overnight as they wait for resources but you're also getting information too that may help investigators piece together not necessarily what people saw but also what they heard, right? >> that happens to be true. the international business times has reported from secondary malaysian news sources that some fishermen in the region of bella tong island 60 miles east of sumatra heard a loud bang between 7:15 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. local time. >> what can you piece together from that? >> well if they are related it could be a result of an aviation accident. >> something that they will consider and look into as again the investigation and search for this plane continues there daylight in the morning. thank you so much, anthony roman, for sharing your insight

this morning. we'll have much more on the missing airasia flight throughout the day. up next we'll switch gears to talk politics as potential candidates are making moves for 2016, even before we get to 2015.

it is almost 2015 and you know what that means, the 2016 presidential race is about to get started and potentially dozens of presidential hopefuls are expected to declare their official candidacies in the months to come. it's going to be very busy. one potential front-runner already started the wheels of a campaign, jeb bush the former florida governor who this month launched a pact to explore a presidential run. joining me is kate dawson and business and political marketing consultant. we thank you both for being with us. not that it's 2015 just yet but we're getting started here and

especially with jeb bush he's also the leading republican in the field too. caden, what makes him the front run? >> certainly the last name. big state, father brother, both presidents of the united states. and the fact that he certainly when he gets in he'll be the leader, the name i.d. is there but this feels very unsettled. the reason why you see the speed of this pick up there's a tighter schedule than people realize of us getting to a nominee june a year from now, august debate and september debate. people have to start getting in. there's going to be 10 or 12 of them it will be nar rowed down and march 1 of next year, big sup super tuesday primary. >> do you think it's been because we've been mixing the pot with the same names and now all of the sudden the ingredient of a bush is thrown in and may make it appealing.

>> his last name gives him a huge amount of make recognition. you don't have to raise as much money to get your name out there. that is a advantage in any campaign. i think the other thing a lot of these hopefuls have already started campaigning. a lot of them have people on the ground in key battleground states a lot of them have been organizing since last year very quietly organizing making trips there. if you look at chris christie from my home state of new jersey, people in new jersey will tell you he spends more time in iowa than he does in new jersey. >> back to jeb, what's the draw back here? what's going to send them back? >> he's now the leader of the primary. so once the campaign staff is up and ready to go things will start changing. people have to revert barkck to barack obama's candidacy where nobody knew who he was, the financial network, very popular governor of a big state and now

the leader in small digits. >> the gop poll change drat drastically when you add mitt romney, you have to talk about these 11 points or more here. is that going to be 2016 is it going to be romney? third time a charm for him? >> knowing the romney family and watching him campaign in south carolina for two different cycles, i would be surprised if he got in. most of the people who ran before understand that 47% will come back and bain capital will come back. name i.d. is instantly there, people can't name the entire field, even folks that are in the know. it is just starting. >> it's just starting. well, maybe not so much when it comes to the democratic primary field here hillary clinton, far and away the favorite here we're talking about numbers polling at more than 60%. tara, is she the inevitable democratic candidate. >> is she formidable?

yes, is she inevitable? no. i think it would be a mistake for democrats to treat this as if she's inevitable. they made that mistake last time and we see president obama won. hillary clinton needs to get out there and needs to fight and needs to earn every single one of the democratic votes. and then expand the field. >> is that going to help the democrats primary time they can't figure it out just yet? >> let me tell you what you have going. you have the far right of the republican party and far left of the democrat party that want primaries. hillary maybe to her advantage can't stand the long protected primary because she's going -- she's going to have to placate the left. she has a problem -- one of the things president obama has is a strong base support of supporters. hillary clinton has to be careful with that. we're salivating her trying to be -- >> salivating does that include

a bush/clinton rematch in some sense? >> could be. >> it could be but fortunes rise and fall very quickly in politics. that's the one constant. >> as we've all watched and covered. thank you so much. this is certainly not the last type of discussions we'll have here. very happy new year to you both. >> thank you. >> up next tv in 2014. keep it here.

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. . . as the countdown to the 2015 ball drop approaches, many actors and tv fans are counting down the days until the golden globes on january 11th. television series like game of thrones have had strong comeback seasons this year as have web favorites like "orange is the new black" and big drama like "how to get away with murder" have made waves in prime time with stark competition. what might the award season hold sf?

well host of msnbc, joining me to reflect on 2014 tv out there and the reasons why so many of our dvrs are exploding because we have no more space. thank you for being with us this morning. >> of course. >> let's talk first off. best show on tv, janet your take? >> i have to go with "true detective." i think they did a great job. >> really? >> yeah. >> at reinvigorating the police procedural with matthew mc mcconaughey, two new movie stars, vince vaughn and collin ferrell. >> someone says, i haven't started with that one yet. you put your money on that? >> i do. i think it's a great -- all available now. that's great. which we love binge watching. go and sink your teeth into the drama that those two unfold. >> all right. and jason, to you. your best. >> true detective on my top ten, as well. but my favorite show of this year was fx, "the americans." >> okay.

>> matthew reese and keri russells are spies going undercover as a married couple with a family. took a creative leap in season two. it's part. political drama, relationship drama. it's basically every tv show you'd love rolled up into one. >> but if it's classic fx i mean based on the stuff i've watched there in the past, "nip/tuck," they take it to a whole other level. >> they do. it pushes the envelope but also creative and all the best ways. it's a fantastic show. >> well you know we can't talk about the best without talking about the worst, the biggest disappointments of the year here. what is it that you thought maybe like there's so much hype or you're excited about something and then you're like, huh, that's it? >> for me i think the toughest thing i had to grapple with wasn't a program thing, it's an award season thing.

i think that keri washington was an award season favorite. and this year, she's been shut out of the tv categories with the s.a.g. and the golden globes, as well. and it seems it created a space with viola davis, which you noticed coming forward in that space. and i wish there was room for both of them in the categories. >> why is that? there was so much buzz about it. and all of a sudden it's nope maybe this time around. >> maybe they thought she got enough shine already and said let her come in and -- >> and how about for you? >> for me my biggest disappointment of the year was the fox sitcom. it was created by and starred john malaney. he created stefan. >> heard of him, haven't heard of malaney. >> you go in with great expectations and they're marketing as the new seinfeld of this generation and ended up being completely conventional, mediocre mediocre. it was a waste of his talents,

everyone's talents. >> and season enders as far as no "big bang"? >> the most disappointing kind of finale of the year was "how i met your mother," which spent nine seasons building up this big mystery. you know the mother and ted and the mother are going to walk off into the sunset together. instead in the space of about five minutes in the finale turns out the mother dies of an illness, ted ends up with robin. >> let's talk about the biggest surprises on tv this year for you, janet. >> for me it's jane the virgin on cw. i think she's amazing. she earned the network its first golden globe nominations. >> and the cw has been needing a hit, right? >> they do. and finally they have this young, fresh show that's completely super self-aware and hilarious. they're all aware of it which i love. it's kind of this really fresh take on this. >> nice. nice to see you. especially like in the post gossip girl world to kind of

have something there. how about for you, jason, talk about any other surprises you thought? >> well i agree that it was my biggest surprise for a new show. but the biggest surprise for a show that came back this year after p kind of falling off the cliff a bit was "homeland." every time i think i'm out "homeland" pulls me back in. what sealed the deal in the last half of the season they basically turn into "24." and they turn into this very political thriller. and everybody was on the edge of their seat. and everybody complaining the last several seasons, i'm done not going to watch it anymore. everybody was back on the bandwagon. >> is it the way we're going to do it in a way of netflix? is that the culture we're in now? >> with netflix leading the charge that's how people watch tv. as soon as one's done the other one. >> all right. thank you to both of you. and don't forget you can catch janet mock hosting the show so

popular fridays on shift by msnbc. and that is our show for today. thank you so much for watching. and still to come now, weekends with alex witt. thanks for being with us. i'm francis rivera. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry in to the sign then drive event and get a five-hundred dollar new year's bonus on select new volkswagen models. offer ends january 2nd.

breaking news at the top of the hour. officials have given up looking for a missing asia plane for now that disappeared. happened late last night. we're going to tell you why. plus the very latest from the singapore airport where that plane was headed and where family members are praying for answers. take a look at these pictures, the formal ending to the u.s. combat mission in afghanistan. happened earlier than expected and just a few hours ago. they turned their backs on the mayor of new york. i will talk with an official who lives in the heart where this scene took place. and what the rift means for america's biggest city.