the house and majority leader in terms of friendship that existed in a long time. >> all right. we shall see. that was fun. that's all we have for today. have a very happy new year. we will be back next week and next year, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." f sunday, it's "meet the press." we continue this hour with breaking news. crews will resume the search for a missing air asia plane in just three hour hoes. the flight disappeared last night with 162 people on board. there was no distress call. right now families are anxiously waiting for any word on what happened to that plane. welcome to special coverage on msnbc this hour. thanks for joining us. i'm richard lui. we have been following the breaking story all day. air asia flight qz 8501 losing contact with ground control after taking off from indonesia on its way to singapore. the associated press says

indonesia, singapore and malaysia are involve had had in search and rescue efforts. it is expected to resume in a few hours. the u.s. state department and ntsb are monitoring the situation and are ready to help if needed. indonesia's acting director of general transportation saying a minlt before ground control lost contact the pilot asked to change his route and increase altitude to avoid clouds in the area. forecasters say powerful storms including showers and hail were in the plane's path. here is a timeline of the flight. it left indonesia sunday morning around 5:35 local time. indonesian air traffic cholesterolers lost contact with the plane at 7:24 a.m. their time. they con if i wered that. the flight was scheduled to land in singapore at 8:30 a.m. local time. there are 162, as i mentioned, individuals on board. most indonesian. 155 passengers including 16 children and one infant.

there are two pilots and five crew members on board. relatives of passengers on the missing flight mh 370 that disappeared nine months ago expressed sympathy to the members of the air asia flight. a man whose mother was on mh 370 said he understands how they feel. another person saying he wished for a miracle for the families of those on board the air asia flight. let's now go to kelly kobaya from the london bureau. >> indonesia is leading the search. it is largely on hold until day break tomorrow, a few hours from now. the founder of asia air, tony fernandez is in indonesia. he met with some of the families. he tweet theed, this is my worst nightmare. he told the families he's promising to do what he can to help them.

indonesian teams searched for ten hours today. they found nothing. the conditions were very bad. heavy rain, low visibility, choppy seas. they are hoping for slightly better weather tomorrow. most of those on board were with indonesian. no american passport holders. lots of families headed to singapore for a short vacation. a british passport holder with his 2-year-old daughter. a position their couple from south korea and their 1-year-old girl. in all, 17 children among the 162 people on board. some family members say they are praying for a miracle. for all of them, an agonizing few days and hours ahead as they wait to find out what happened. >> thank you for the latest from london. there was a lot of stormy weather in the area at the time the plane vanished. kelly mentioned that. mark elliot here to give us a closer look at what was happening there.

mark? >> good afternoon, richard. we continue to follow the weather situation surrounding that air asia flight 8501. on the screen now is the flight path through the java are sea from indonesia up toward singapore was the planned path. it does appear the weather played a big role in what happened with this flight. the colors you see on the screen. this is our enhanced infrared imagery. looking down on the earth at the clouds, the brighter thor colors, yellows and reds indicating the higher cloud tops and the colderer cloud tops. some of the storms were quickly blossoming to over 50,000 feet. of course flight level was near 30,000 feet. the pilot requested to change that flight level to try to avoid some of the storms. at 50,000 feet it would be nearly impossible to go over the storms. this area of the world, famous for big thunderstorms. although it is a tropical part

of the world, that flight level would be cold enough that icing could be a concern. investigators will have to eventually analyze if icing conditions on the wings came into play along the flight path. as we zoom in, this is the flight and the last known location. you can see the thunderstorms right nearby. obviously weather, if it wasn't the main factor, it was certainly no help along the path of the flight. richard, back to you. >> mark, thank you for that update for us on the weather. here is what we know about the plane. it's an air bus 200 series a-320. delivered in 2008. this plane had 23,000 flight hours and 13,600 flights. the a-320 is a short oh medium range jet. it can carry up to 180 passengers with a range of 3700 miles. let's bring in two aviation experts to shed light on what happened with the air asia flight. former ntsb investigator and nbc

flight investigator and a former captain for u.s. airways. a-320. thousands are there. some 11,000 have been delivered or are on order here. it is one of the two big workhorses around the world. any concern or question about the equipment itself? >> i don't think there is a question regarding the mechanical soundness of the airplane. the airplane had flown several flights, four or five earlier that day. there was apparently no mechanical issues to ground the airplane. there was no reason or evidence now that we know of that would play a part in the investigation. it will be looked at as far as the maintenance history and things like that. any deferred items. now based on the evidence we have, there is nothing to suggest the airframe or the airplane, its mechanical soundness had anything to do with this event. >> we had many conversations.

i know you have several scenarios in your mind now. one, the dominant one that mark elliot from the weather channel was helping us to give background on is weather. this is monsoon season. it is what we are talking about in terps of what he described, very common. the temperatures there on the ground, very warm. of course we are talking about 40,000, 50,000 feet in the sky. it will be much different. sudden storms are common in that area. an interesting part that you discussed during the air france flight. the intertropical con server yens zone. talk about what that might mean. >> these thunderstorms in a very long line blossom very high. which means that the activity within the thunderstorms is

great. the up and downdrafts are magnified. with them blossoming up to 40,000, 50,000 feet there is a lot of oh energy stored in the thunderstorms. you have the potential for large hail, lightning, the up and downdrafts. so pilots have to be well aware of it. they can paint some of that on the on board weather radar. john cox can tell you exactly what they look at. he flew the airplane. but they will try to circumnavigate any way they can. the question is why were they mispatcheded. these thunderstorms had been in the area. what did the airline do to help them understand plan b if they couldn't get through this line? >> a good point to you on this

as pilots get ready to take off. it's not like they decide when they get to the plane and determine whether wet er systems are in front of oh them. they plan hours ahead of time in terms of where the red spaces might be. they would know perhaps where they might be going. understanding the background and the ictz. the intertropical convergence zone, why they are flying at that time and what it might mean to the equipment they are flying here. >> several things come into play here. first, thunderstorms are dynamic. they grow and die off. so the exact position of thunderstorms can be forecast in general areas, but not specifically. the people who have the most up to date information are the pilots. that's because they have on board weather radar. highly technically advanced and the a-320 weather radar is a good one. i have used it many, many times.

they have the best information of how to circumnavigate these storms. one of other thing to recognize is there are a lot of airplanes out flying in the same general area. >> right. >> it wasn't as though this flight flew into some place no one else was going. >> it wasn't the only plane. >> that's not the case at all. >> right. >> each pilot looks at it and makes a decision based on their experience and what their weather radar is showing to take the safest route they can to avoid the growing thunderstorms. when you talk about the 50,000-foot cells it's very important to recognize that not all of oh that whole area when you can get up and visually see, you can then pick your way around the thunderstorms and do it in a safe way. the fact that they ask for a climb indicates that maybe is

what they were attempting to do. >> one might see a pothole in the street. you will try to steer around it. this idea of all the planes in the area, for those who use social media traffic gauges, all the information coming to you as a pilot real time. so you know what's happening around and in front of you. how key is the next several hours? they will resume 3:00 a.m. local time. 6:00 a.m. they resume. what will be key here? one of the possibilities, you have flown the a-320. it has a ditch switch which closes off openings, apertures at the bottom of the plane so should it have taken a water landing it would float longer. >> yeah. i think the first thing that will be the most important tomorrow is what's the weather going to be? how effective are the airplanes going to be able to get out and fly looking for the debris? the a-320 is a very, very well

known -- described as a workhorse airplane. that's a good description for it. they have done a particularly well known water landing with the airplane. the fact that the airplane came down so quickly makes a water landing a pretty remote possibility. i think the investigators are being wise. they are being patient. they are not speculating here. so when the experts when they start finding debris and we can locate the airplane at the bottom of the ocean, that will tell us the story of what happened to this flight. >> building on that point about the workhorse air bus saying an a-320 takes off and lands every two seconds around the world. that's an indication of how common this plane is and how well of a performer it is. stick around.

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we are staying with breaking news. air asia flight losing control with ground control after taking off on its way to singapore. a short flight. not more than two hours. both countries launched search and rescue yesterday. the search has been suspended until daylight. the state department says the u.s. stands ready to assist with the search for the missing airplane. air asia says the crew of flight 8501 asked for a change in flight path to avoid rough weather in the area. a normal ask but different in

this case. shortly thereafter controllers lost contact with the plane. the flight was scheduled to land at 8:30 a.m. local. here now security expert and former commercial pilot an no any roman. thanks for being with us. you are in that situation. a lot of turbulence. you ask air traffic control, can we deviate, increase altitude, whatever, to get around what's in front of us. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. you hit a situation where you may need to take evasive action. there is something with an airbus a-oh 320 that could be part of the way the particular pilots are getting feedback, if you will, from the equipment. >> that's true. there is a parameter called flight envelope protection which is basically a series of computers on the a-320. those computers naturally have software parameters. they interpret the pilot's flight control inputs. there have been cases where the

computers have over ridden the pilot's inputs in cases of extreme weather. actually caused incidents and accidents. >> you mean after reaction from the pilots may have exceeded the allowed parameters. >> exactly right. >> i push it too far forward, too far back. uh i'm over simplifying. >> yes. >> in those cases, is that unique to the fly by wire air bus approach as opposed to the boeing approach which doesn't have the fly by wire traditionally here? >> most new aircraft now do have fly by wire. it has increased the safety of oh flying commercially multi fold. however, there are specific instances. there was a 747 aircraft coming in. the pilot input was over ridden

during monstrous cross winds. it actually caused the aircraft to scrape the wing during the touchdown attempt. >> over to the side, yeah. >> it had to go around. it subsequently made a successful landing. the investigation revealed that the pilot p exceeded the in puts but that the inputs would have successfully placed the aircraft on the ground. >> where technology, you are saying in such a scenario is not helping. >> satellite tracking. we look at the map and ask ourselves, it made it up about a third of where it was supposed to go. the last two thirds, unknown. satellite tracking. why not? they are driving the cost of travel way down. we were discussed off camera how this region, that the air travel has increased multi fold.

>> can't even count. >> so it's not appealing to the airlines. the regulators would have to study it. it would take years for implementation. these are low cost, low fare airlines. satellite tracking would not be easy. so that would be a part of debate if they were to consider it. in addition there is another possible discussion space. we have no indication, there is no information saying this is a possibility. but in the scenario business that you're in, you think of ill intent, perhaps militant activity, surabaya has not been absent of that. what might you be looking for. >> that's true. as a security expert and a former commercial pilot we have

to consider all possibilities. although the weather was extreme. it is the most likely culprit in this particular case. we must look at the issue of oh terrorism as well. what we would do is examine it prosecute the ground up. what policies and procedures are in place. are the international standards enforced for safety and security? do the crews enforce cockpit isolation and the sterile cockpit rules? we have to look at the passenger manifests. background to be done to see if there is a connection to terrorism at all including lone wolf inspired terrorists. >> run by tony fernandez, a protege of richard branson has brought that model to asia and has really dominated there. any understanding based on his business practice with air asia. it is consistent with the security procedures that you

just described. >> well, most of the airlines in that particular renal have reasonable security precautions. however, we found that they are not uniquely and uniformly enforced as they are on oh american and western european, australian carriers. it's just sometimes the flight crews and the flight attendants and the ground crews simply don't enforce the rules that are in place. >> anthony roman has been up 30 hours working with msnbc for 16 of the hours, still staying sharp. haung for your perspective on all three areas we have been discussing today. we are following breaking news off the coast of italy. we'll return shortly with more . there is a rescue operation involving a ferry on fire. an italian coast guard official says a person died attempt ing to escape from a blazing ferry in the adriatic sea and another injured. hundreds remain trapped on smoke-oh filled top decks as

winds and chappy seas hampered evac weight efforts. there was a barrier to protect the ferry from waves to help the rescue. now to news in new york city. a police officer, raphael ramos was the first of two officers murdered december 20 in brooklyn to be laid to rest. family, friends, politicians and thousands of law enforcement officers gathered in the glendale section of queens on saturday morning to pay respects. the mayor of oh new york city addressed the mourners. as the mayor spoke, legions of uniformed officers turned their backs on the image broadcast on screens to protest. the protest was with reminiscent of a similar one directed at the mayor the night of the ott shooting. it came after deblasio informed those to cease protests until after the funerals for ramos and his partner. commissioner bill bratton shown here giving a yulg appeared this

morning on "meet the press" saying he believes while the rift between the police and mayor will go on longer, he believes it was inappropriate for officers to turn their backs and said when asked about african-american concerns about police. >> their perception is the reality we have to deal with. there is no denies that among the black community there are those concerns. policing that sometimes it's difficult to see those. i made comments yesterday in my eulogy about seeing each other to understand. when i say see each other it means not look past one another but to really see what's motivating what we are experiencing. >> joining us now nbc analyst jim cavanaugh, retired special agent in charge and hostage negotiator. thanks for joining us. i have described the reaction to what happened. thrift we have been describing.

the law enforcement officers turning their backs to the mayor during the eulogy. is this a rift you believe is not fixable? >> i think it's fixable, richard. the country has lived through these things before. i used to be the agent in charge of the birmingham division. dr. king this the '# 0s, so much of this makes you think about that history where the police had strife with the peaceful protesters. so many issues come to bear. dr. king said so many things that resonate. if you can hear him again today, we are all tied in a single garment of destiny. we are all connected. what affects one directs us all indirectly. the wisdom of leaders like dr. king should be taken into account here by everyone. police, the mayor, all the political leaders nationally,

demonstrators. we can help bridge the gap. these are all good people. we can get together and do better by the country to stop injustice, help the police, paycheck the country better. >> what do you think the mayor as well as the commissioner need to do. what's the one thing you want to see from each of them that might make this better soon? >> i think once officer lu is laid to rest both the mayor and commissioner and the leads of the police union should agree to reach out, sit down and have private meetings to listen to each other, to see as the commissioner said, to see the other person's point of view. you have to really understand the other side. you have to listen and seek to understand the other side before your position also those things

can be work tlud. we could be better. we got better after the 60s. we are taking a dip here a little bit. it's not that deep. we can go back. we can do better. protesters protest because they want change. the reason for protest whether it is the police turning their backs or police they want change. you negotiate, listen to the other guy's side and effect change. we can do it in america. >> as you make the comparison, the analogy. thank you, jim cavanaugh for

your thoughts. straight ahead, the search for the missing air asia jet family searching for word on their loved ones. the latest information on the search coming up.

welcome back to our special coverage on this sunday of the search for air asia flight 8051. in two hours in the daylight crews will resume their search for qz 8501. it's 3:30 a.m. local time. ground control in this situation lost contact with the plane shortly after take off heading from indonesia to singapore. the airline saying the pilot asked to change route to avoid bad weather. forecasters say showers and hail were in the plane's path. there was no distress call and no indication of what happened to the jet liner fou. there are 162 people on board. most indonesian. 155 passengers, 16 children. one infant. also two pilots and five crew members. the ntsb are red are di to help if needed. president obama has been briefed on the disappearance. a live report with chris jansing who is traveling with the president shortly.

let's goat get to two aviation experts who have been with us to talk about air asia flight 8051. we have former ntsb investigator greg feiff and greg cox serving as an airline captain for u.s. airways joining us again. why not key off on this? in term of what we know, there was no may day call. there was also a pan-pan call. why did we have that? what is the difference between the two? >> there are a number of different reasons for that. the may day call really demonstrates a level of extreme urgency with regard to what's going on with the flight crew, warning air traffic control that they have a serious situation. pan-pan is a step below that. it says we have an issue. we are dealing with it. we want you to be aware of it. the fact that we don't have

either call is one of many different reasons. possibly the event they believed was nonthreatening as they tried to circumnavigate this thunderstorm area, they may have believed everything was under control. they were starting to climb. then whatever happened, the events that happened became so overwhelming and task saturate ared the crew, that is it took both to maintain control of the airplane, operate systems, do what they needed to do to keep control of the airplane. unfortunately the events overwhelmed them and they they weren't able to warn air trafficle control they had an issuement. >> john cox, as a former pilot you have a triage rule, a tle-step rule. communicate is one of those. using a pan-pan or a mayday call would be a part of that. what's the process this terms of propertile kol before you get to the point where you make the mayday or pan-pan call? >> first you want to maintain

control of the airplane. you and greg are both quite right. there is a process and procedure of priority. first maintainle control of the airplane. deal with the situation. air traffic control can't really do anything for you, other than keep other airplanes away from you. so the purpose, if you have a problem on board, is to advise air traffic control, i don't need anybody near me. otherwise everything that you do is within the airplane itself. if there is a problem with the airplane, you deal with it. as your training and experience dictate. those are the issues and the fact that there was not a call made to air traffic, it says the pilots were dealing with something of a greater priority than communicating with air traffic. that's something the investigators will look at. >> right. >> there are cases where they may have acted appropriately. >> that's where the black boxes are so key.

if they can find them. john cox, give us a sense of the culture of communication in the cockpit. you remember the asiana flight. there was discussion right or wrong about how culturally acceptable it was to reach certain points of asking for help. whether it be between the pilots and in this case we are talking about mayday or pan-pan calls. what is the threshold before you or your copilot says we better do this. is it high? or oh that you don't want to ask for help or that you are open to asking for help. >> since the late 1970s, the improvement in crew resource management has blossomed many fold. it's been true in every culture. some have embraced the idea of the crew resource management. what that is it formalizes the way this which the team of the pilots function together. in addition, also the cabin

staffer or flight attendants. so the building of the team, the crew resource management process. it's formalized. pilots are trained in it. it facilitates open communication. if someone is about to do something with the airplane, the other pilot doesn't feel kfbl. you have an obligation to bring it up. whether you are the first officer or the captain. this facilitates communication. it makes for better decisions. now the question that was brought up and rightfully so by the ntsb and the asiana accident was that, i guess i will call it innuendo or a minimal advice that a problem was developing and both the instructor pilot and the captain under training didn't take heed of it.

they will look at the communications on the flight deck. until then we don't know what was said or what was not said snm that will be key. in two of two and a half hours we have daylight. we understand what will be deployed in that flotilla being considered at the moment, indonesia. seven aircraft. the four navy ships and six boats from indonesia. malaysia, three navy ships and a helicopter. singapore will deploy two aircraft and a host of other countries that said, hey, we are going to help. this area is much smaller. what will they look for and how tough might it be? the monsoon season means they have rough seas. >> not only rough seas, richard. again, because of all the thunderstorm activity in area

that could limit the amount of assets used for wreckage. that will be key getting as many aircraft in the air because they can cover a larger area, see the floating debris from up above over a larger area than the surface ships. they may find one piece of it. the weather will dictate how successful we are using aerial assets. once with they find it we have to concern ourselves with what direction did it come from, trying to backtrack where it originated. that should be the largest impact point. we have to assume it was in the water. just floating out there. they will be looking for a debris field to find on the ocean floor using the assets we

learned about from mh-370 to find the debris field and hopefully get the cockpit and the flight data recorder. >> 16 hours into the story, what are you looking for next? >> i think right now for me as an investigator, we definitely want to find the aircraft. we want to understand exactly where that debris field is to get the cvr and fdr. a lot of information being gathered from the airline will help support the investigative process. we need the wreckage and the fdr and cvr. >> well said. thank you both so much for all the information. very helpful. appreciate it. as the search continues for flight 8501 president obama is in hawaii following the situation while vacationing with his family. let's bring in senior white house correspondent chris jansing this in honolulu traveling with the first family. chris, first, what's the white house's response to the crisis?

as i was saying it's about 16 hours old now. >> yeah. the white house has told us the president has been briefed. he's being kept updated on new developments. this morning the state department confirmed there were no passengers on the flight with u.s. passports and the national transportation safety board offered to help. they have been mon toring the search for the missing plane. you have been reporting other countries reaching out as well including malaysia where the parent company of the airline is based. the u.s. was heavily involved in the search for mh-370 you were talking about which disappeared nine months ago. the administration then sent aircraft, blue fin under water vehicle, navy supply ship. what we don't know is if the president has reached out personally to anyone there. back in april he was the first u.s. president in nearly 50 years to visit malaysia. at the time he talked about the assistance the u.s. was giving. after arriving in hawaii, he

played golf with the prime minister of malaysia. there is a personal relationship there as well. >> chris, you are covering another lead story today. we'll move away from the flight for a moment oh. it is important in history. that's the official end to the war in afghanistan. the president just released a statement marking the occasion, thanking the trips for their ser vis. tell us what's next here. >> what's next is really the big question. while the ceremony today officially mark it is end of combat operation, the u.s. involvement certainly isn't over. there are about a 18,000 foreign troops that will stay. 10,600 of them americans. while nato troops will focus on the training and advisory roles, u.s. forces will have limited combat roles as part of a separate counter terrorism mission. this marks a major transition in the most violent time for afghanistan as they try to take responsibility for their own

security. 2014 has been the deadliest year since 2001, start of the war. 5,000 afghanistan forces were killed this year. civilian casualties are expected to hit 10,000. in his statement, the president acknowledged that while afghanistan remains a dangerous place, he praised the troops. i want to read part of the statement for you. for more than 13 years, said the president, since theerly 3,000 innocent lives were taken on 9/11, our nation has been at war in afghanistan. now thanks to the extraordinary sacrifices of our men and women in uniform, our combat mission in afghanistan is ending. the longest war in american history is coming to a responsible conclusion. of course this has come at a high price by the associated press account. at least 2,213 u.s. military members have died there. >> the official end of the war in afghanistan. nbc news, seen yor white house correspondent chris jansing,

thank you for that. more on the mysterious disappearance of the air asia flight. more on that. stay with us. katy perry, quite contrary, how do your lashes grow? soft and full like a flower, with new covergirl full lash bloom mascara. finally! volume that's soft - not spiky. new full lash bloom mascara from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl

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in about two hours, the search will resume for missing flight 8502 with 162 people on board. groundle control lost contact with the plane headed from indonesia to singapore. the pilot asked to change route to avoid bad wet before the flight disappeared. pope francis saying today, quote, my thoughts are with those on board the missing airasia plane that disappeared during a flight, end quote. he expressed solidarity with the families waiting for word on their loved ones. more on the missing plane just ahead for you. now former president george h.w. bush is still in the hospital today in houston. the 90-year-old was admitted

tuesday suffering shortness of breath. jacob rascon has an update on the condition. we have heard better news every day leading into the weekend. >> reporter: doctors say he's doing as well as he's ever been doing at the hospital during this stay. he's been here six days. every day we get an update. this one says his condition improved to the point doctors are discussing dates for discharge. they say he will stay here through the weekend. safe to say bush 41 will be going home soon. they say he's doing much better this time around than two christmases ago a when he was here at houston methodist for two months suffering from bronchitis and a cough. we know he's the oldest living former president. he suffers a form of parkinson's disease that makes it difficult to walk or speak. he's had health scares before. in recent months and years he's been active. he was at a book signing. at a coin toss. he's gone sky diving for his

birthday last summer. last tuesday he had trouble breathing and was taken here. he'll be headed home soon. richard? >> he's a tough world war ii pilot and vet. he wears great socks as well. we are rooting for him. jacob, thank you for the good news there. we'll return to the big story of the day. daylight approaching and the search for a missing plane. why it's so difficult to find. i'm angela, and i quit smoking with chantix. people who know me, they say 'i never thought you would quit.' but chantix helped me do it.

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and you could save up to $423 dollars. call liberty mutual for a free quote today at see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. we are watching very keenly into southeast asia the search for flight 8501, airasia's q >> 8501, resuming in about two hours. it will be sunrise. right now, 3:51 a.m. local time on a monday. the jet disappeared with in violent weather earlier with 162 on board. it was headed -- coming from sur

wry by ya, indonesia, going to singapore. with more on what they will be looking al next, we bring in security expert and former commercial pilot, anthony roman. anthony, one thing that we look at when stories like this come about, safety records, not only for an airline, but in this case, a region that has seen so much growth economically and as a result, a manifestation of that is air traffic. and just looking at -- we will bring up six from the time, out of singapore, listing aviation incidents or accidents. in just 2014. we have january 19th, we have for you with killed, february 1st two injured. of course, mh-370 missing. we have what i 17th, two ministers from lay woes die in a crash. july 17, 219 killed, mh 17, very well talked about, july 23rd, 48 killed in a transasia airways crash. is this region specifically,

'cause we talk about the united states, we are very, very lucky, but look at that region, is safety a bigger problem here, looking at some of those numbers? >> safety is a bigger problem in many regions of the world in which there are smaller competing countries politically and economically, where there are a low-cost airlines developing and looking toward rapid expansion, a tremendous market as we were discussing offcamera, between boeing and airbus. there's tremendous competition. >> boeing and airbus, when they put out their projections consistently over the last decades, it is asia, asia, asia. as a result of that the capacity to handle more planes in the sky and as we have looked a what the airasia has done to that region, exploded, the number of planes in the air there is a fight for low-cost, low-fare airlines, whether 30 times greater than it was 20 years ago, whether 20 times, talking a lot more. has the infrastructure and again from the u.s. perspective, we

are lucky. we have an infrastructure around gore decades, they don't. do they have the capacity to handle all these planes in the sky? >> they seem to be managing it reasonably well. some are managing it better than others as exhibited by your accident record of smaller countries with less resources have a higher incident and accident rate. >> this is this low-cost model, what they will do, they will hub all of their maintenance in a country where the most inexpensive, in this case, malaysia, where airasia is based out of. the cost structure compared to next door, singapore, a big deal here in staying profitable. but then there's also the question of how long do they wait before they maintain or follow the protocols that airbus and boeing put out there?

>> they have to follow the protocols that airbus. these aircraft are generally leased. so there is a standard for that. but how is the maintenance supplied when it's sent to third batter countries and it's a question of airline supervision of those third party countries. >> exactly. >> in the united states, there were reports that earlier, that jetblue was sending its aircraft for maintenance to dpa watt mala. jetblue has a reasonable safety record, actually exceptional in many instances, they have effectively managed that kind of maintenance program much the same is not always true in asia. >> so tony fernandez, we think about all the family members of the 162 individuals on that plane, i came out front very early. >> did he. >> he spoke very personally. this is very different from hm 370 and the early times, the early days. when you think about those 162

and their families and how they are handling the crisis center, what are you looking for next? >> i think those experiences were distally opposite. and i think tony fernandez, as you said, came out front. empathized with the families. immediately moved geographically to the accident airport point of departure. i will think he will support the families, emotionally, economically and any manner of support he can provide. >> we are so used to being in control and gives us the right outcomes we depend on all the time with technology. i have 15 seconds left. this kind of puts it on its ear, its end, doesn't it? >> it really does. these aircraft are quite capable aircraft. but mother nature will have its way. and in these extreme weather conditions, pilots must be careful. >> anthony roman, great to speak with you, aviation analyst,

security ex-better is. we will follow qz8501 as that search continues in just about two hours that wraps up this special coverage of the search for missing airasia flight 8501. i'm richard lui. thanks gore joining us. we will continue to bhon tore us. stay with us on msnbc for the very latest on this search. for practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a german-engineered volkswagen. like the sporty, advanced new jetta... and the 2015 motor trend car of the year all-new golf. if you're wishing for a new volkswagen this season... just about all you need is a finely tuned... pen. hurry in to the sign then drive event and get a five-hundred dollar new year's bonus on select new volkswagen models. offer ends january 2nd. why do i cook for the to share with family to carry on traditions to come together, even when we're apart in stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, and more, swanson® makes holiday dishes delicious!

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