. >> welcome to "morning joe." this morning, we're taking a look back at the year that was. >> first let's look at a political power couple who probably could show people on sides of different aisles can work together. with us at the table, of course james carville mary matalin, author of "love & war." why did you all write the book in tell us about it? >> no we want to say hello to you guys. it's been a long time. we like to be in new york. >> thank you so much.

yeah you know what's great, though, just in the tease for the book that i haven't read the book yet, but there were aspects during 20 years where the two off would go for various lengths of time without speaking to one another. >> i worked with pare during some of those, during the bush years, right? >> oh yes. we did iraq together. that was one of those. >> when james was -- >> it's something worth not speaking over now. >> yes, for 20 years, with mary we were right there for all of the stuff that happened and a lot of the part of the clinton administration, after 2000 she was working for vice president cheney in 2001 and we would get involved in the recovery of katrina in new orleans for sometime now. so we had a lot of things that had happened in our lives and we had been married for 20 years an so it seemed like a good time to

sort of recount what we seen and have done. >> it also compare then with now, you know we thought in '92, it was such a nasty campaign '93, 'know, such horrible environment, but, god, compare it to now, it's just insane. >> you know, honestly i said i would never write another book. it's like giving an epidural to the real love letter she's looking, she must have had her pep do you recall. i had to give james an epidural for our babies he couldn't take it. politics can work. we did it in new orleans, you know our mayor famously said go miss you, seven years ago, we were 15 feet under water, who could forget that from the bush white house, now we're the number one tourist destination, number one silicon south,

entremendous (neural. so entrepreneurial. a lot of that is how this happen and how good citizens inform virtuous citizens who love a place to come together and do it. >> that's the reality. >> i forgot we're reality. >> if walk, it's unreal. there is no decision they make in washington that affects someone at the end of each day, really. in new orleans or any city, a mayor, their decisions affect people. a traffic light. >> every day. every hour. >> yes. >> you go to lousiana i was standing in line to go to harry poter, with mitch, everybody in line was like you didn't fix that street light. but it's more than that there's a lot more than that. but if you are accountable, the closer to the people you are, the more accountable the greater the reality is. hence the more words. >> what is the disconnect between washington, though a

the rest of the country. i was at the association a month or two ago. whether you were talking to main street republicans or tea party republicans like nikki haley, nikki haley said hey, we can't afford to shut down the government. if you are after go, you got to make things work and it just it's not working. >> we discovered two things we live in a democratic city in a republican state. every republican in louisiana is a republican. every everyone in the city is a democrat. so we would challenge the committee in 2013. well, i had to work with the governor. we had a luncheon at the mansion, bring them over. the lt. gov. we had to go to him to get the stuff from the state. mary had to work with the city. >> that itself the hand that you are dealt. you don't, you just live in the environment that you are in. you just have to. you don't get to change the rules. >> so you think one of the problems of water going on in washington, obviously,

republicans are dug in they want president obama unlike bill clinton wasn't a democrat in a republican state or at least in aen co servetive state and really never had to deal with people coming at him all the time. >> we have different views on this, imagine that. you have different views. i think the notion of the resistance to compromise is not a sickness it's a reality. it's quite the compromise of 1850. >> that did not stop the civil war. >> right. >> we are, we've never been this much in debt. we've never had a government that's been this intrusive. and you got to say no just say no. >> i feel like this is not like we are throwing temper tantrums in washington him we have a situation that chris christie had in new jersey or scott walker had in wisconsin. lots of states who did what were mixed in.

>> has anybody like noticed that the debt has dropped faster in the last four years since the war? has anybody noticed we had to find -- we're not supposed to say that? >> we take it out to 1.4 trillion dollars a year, it's like me telling ma a, ma i got twice the grade in math. you got a 24 so 48. >> teen age -- it was this 40% on sale. >> that doesn't make it free. right. >> i think a lot of people wouldn't we worked together people used to always say, you know how do they go home at night with all these really polarizing issues going on. i think one of the most interesting things you had to endure a lot of us around you during the white house years, mary was always very welcoming to all of us. i think people sometimes wonder if it moderated either one of you. mary you said to me you have

gone total tea party. so it seems to have had no moderating effect understanding each other's viewings right? >> i don't think i'd change, because it took us a long time we're not going to change anybody's mind. it's time wasted. >> isn't that true about most people? they have their views. >> no we're not, we have flexible minds are boring minds. the one thing i said before marriage and to this day the one thing i want out of life is to not be bored. he's never boring. he's never persuaded me. >> he's persuaded so many people mary. >> he's never changed your mind on an issue? >> i have changed my mind on the death penalty. i don't know if he did it or catholocism did. >> a lot of republicans, a lot of cone servetives change their mind on the death penalty. >> i don't know, my class at tulane, i forced them i

assigned, i'll say half of you will write the keystone pipeline is a good thing. the rest of you write it's a bad thing. >> has mary changed your mind on anything? is is. >> but it certainly made you more understanding of other people that share their views? i remember willie geist saying he was raised in no. he went down to vander build and suddenly all of his friends he played basketball with were all george bush fans. it took him three days to go maybe he's not evil maybe we just think differently. he said that was really important for him. >> we went through a long period as do you in any relationship, why do you think the way you think? i understand why he's a liberal. i think i am more of a conservative than he is a liberal. but i understand the kind of liberal he is. it's the kind of liberal i

admire. he's a civil rights liberal of the '60s of the south. >> that it was a good motivation on the activist government, all that other stuff, i can't hear you, why am i not listening? then. >> i'm more of a, i would describe myself as an economic liberal instead of a social traditionalist. i think it's very possible -- >> you'd do well in pennsylvania. >> probably. but i do think that it's what people need parents got to be better. a bigger role in what happens in this country and a lot of times what happens is it's never successful, the government will gobble to defacto parents, general electric does not want a child with a 31-year-old grandmother. they don't want to be responsible nor does anybody else. that wasn't a defacto to the government. everybody goes, ha ha you failed. this 31-year-old grandmother child didn't turn out successfully t. child with a 31-year-old grandmother has a

stacked deck. >> do you subscribe to the theory based upon what you were saying i assume you would, one of the post-under rated aspect of this country is good parenting. good parenting is such a foundation that we miss so much of it in this country. . >> well, it is. but we also let's be fair the teen pregnancy rate right now is at a 20-year low, we're doing, you know crime has really become -- we got to act knowledge some progress but i agree completely and there are things that parenting can do that makes me i guess in a sense -- a tra devil i am 100% for day marriage marijuana legalization, i think we're not totally sure yet. >> he's a conservative on that. i'm like. >> i tend to be more traditionalist on some of these kind of things, not the gay stuff. >> going to your point, and this is why i love him, when he

discovered things like that, that we have in common then we'd get into teach for america. he's on the teach for america board. so if you don't have an intact family, then have you teachers who care who go to the house who work on one thing at a time. we seen it in new orleans, he had the highest education reform rate in this country. it's teach for america. it's trying new things so it's all of these things there is no magic solution. there is no one size fits all. we will start over and do one kid at a time and make a parental unit a structure. >> it's hard work. >> it takes a village. >> still ahead, everyone loves a comeback story. >> texas governor rick perry joins us to talk about the growing speculation that he's going to run for president again. >> it's funny. >> in 2016 and why this time may be different.

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. >> he is a good looking man. >> i'm sorry. is this not the greatest thing ever to happen to rick perry? i have to show you the other

side. don't show the other side. put that down. >> seriously. they are going to wish in austin that they had never gone after rick perry and they have played right into his hands. mike barnacle what do you call it? >> world's greatest mug shot ever. you said it was gorilla marketing ever. >> oh absolutely. >> i'll be honest -- >> you don't have to pay ad time. it took care of it. >> i'd run for the streets of west chester in that thing. >> i had to pay for it rick pack paid for. oh my god. >> how is it going? >> it's good. it is really good. >> is it? >> life is good. >> what's going on with this thing? is it going to get dismissed? what do you think in. >> we got a great legal team him it's in their hands. the process is going to go forward. i don't know what else you say about it. from my perspective, it's over with.

>> if i sat here and said it's the dammedest thing i ever saw, he's a republican talking about a republican. i've always been so nice to you. oh wait a second no i haven't. >> here lately you have been. >> here lately i have been okay. but democrats are saying it's the dammedest thing they've ever seen, too. do you you have an austin da's office that's out of control politically? >> that decision will get made i think when this is finalized. >> look at that he's showing the restraint of a presidential candidate right there. are you running for president? >> i'll make a decision next year. >> look at that he's talking just like one? >> do you want o? >> i think america needs competent leader. we'll sort out who that's going to be. >> are you a confident leader? >> well yeah. >> ask people in texas. right. >> can the people of texas not in travis county, though.

>> what went -- a lot of people that i talk to because they say, who are you thinking about? i say the field is empty. it's just empty. jeb is talking about it. i don't know a that he can do it or not. we talked earlier about what people couldn't do it. i said you know you ought to look at rick perry i was tough on the guy the last time. what is the difference between rick perry 2012 and two years later? >> healthy for one thing, major back surgery six weeks before running for president i don't recommend that for you to be on the top of your game and the preparation side. like i talked about this when we did your book preparation to run for the highest office in this country and the most influential position in the world requires an extensive amount of preparation. whether it's domestic policy whether it's monetary policy whether it's foreign policy. >> right. >> and i did not prepare. you know i was a bit arrogant

had been elected governor three times, what can be harder than that? >> nothing prepares you for that. >> substantially. preparation is the key it to and that itself the thing that i have been working on for the last 22 months spent time with henry kissinger yesterday a great example, george schultz at the hoover aei with the brookings institute folks, listening to both sides, absorbing that listening to them coming up with concept itself and how to deal with this myriad of issues you nation as the leader of the free world. before that as a candidate and you are going to be tested and you will be tested greatly, as you should be. >> and again, getting fogged down and beaten up we've always talked about i. every time we go out and give speeches to young people. we say, what's the best thing that can happen to you? we say, get the left hook you never see coming the next time you get knocked down you will

see it coming. >> that's why i was asking you. >> let me tell you, texas governor's detail do not try to run through the governor's mansion. >> okay. >> because shannon o'neal the lady on our detail. >> she will knock you down. >> dead down. >> you will meet justice. >> you will meet justice. get down baby. >> okay. no, that's why i was saying. it is such a difficult process being a candidate and so one of the issues is is finding on the republican side somebody who seems leak he or she would emerge, there seem to be several on the democratic side but who would want to? that's why i said do you want to? would you want to do that? >> i have spent my life in public service. it wasn't i set out as a kid to do. being a pilot in the united states air force. then shifting over to the state house the agriculture governor for almost 14 years, public service is something i am

passionate about and i believe with all my heart that if you put the right policies into place, tax policy regulatory policies, legal policy, have you public schools that arekable that the people of this country will respond in a very powerful and a positive way. you open up the energy on the street. xl pipeline canada mexico et cetera. this country will explode economically. you put some tax policies into place to really incentivize people to risk that capital. then you will see energy prices continue to go down the cost of power continue to go down and manufacturing will move back into this country at an unprecedented rate. >> energy prices are really one of the main drivers for people. let's get specific. mark halperin -- >> rick perry were in commander in chief, what would you be doing differently with isis? >> i would have dealt with this pesh mur ga substantially

differently, giving them the weaponry they need and obviously keeping up an incessant airstrike. absolutely. i would have assets on the ground with those peshmurga mur. >> how many assets? >> i don't know how many. >> but for more than forces. >> yeah you would have our assets in place to be able to, can you not do the damage that needs to be done to isis just with a few airstrikes and particularly you got to have assets on the ground. so heavy weaponry to the peshmurga insistant incessant airstrikes on them i think at that point in time you will be able to -- >> you are talking about united states military personnel on the ground in. >> i'm talking about u.s. assets. >> assets are military personnel. >> i understand that. i don't know about into syria, but certainly into that northern region where we had -- >> to fight isis direct

confrontation on the ground. >> listen, if you have them on the ground you have to realize, there is probably going to be some contact there. so the idea that we're going to stand back here and try to make both sides happy, the left and the right. >> so are we talking about 82nd airborne or special ops? >> i'm talking special ops. you won't put tens of thousands of troops in there. >> why not if they're a threat to the united states in. >> you don't have to we have special ops, delta force, navy seals, marine force recon, all of those are quite capable of taking care of the isis threat. but you have to be there working with the aviation assets and then peshmurga i think are one of those great forces. they very overlooked. we refused to give them the heavy weaponry they need to fight fight isil. >> special ops to guide.

we think it's a movie. >> people keep talking about boots oak. what they should be talking about instead are eyes on the ground. people that understand it. bodies on the ground. human intelligent spotters. it's what the government is talking about, special ops assets can actually tell us how to fight smarter, fight safer. avoid civilian deaths. >> assets aren't u.s. forces either it's the human intelligence side. i think we have gotten away from that over the course of the years. if we would have spent some of the billions of dollars in afghanistan on human intelligence or for that matter buying what we needed rather than spending the billions of dollars on the ground in afghanistan, would we be in a better position today or worse position. i'll suggest that. >> you said if august quote, it's a real possibility that members of isis have crossed the texas border into this country t. real fear of people that deal

with isis every day, both in washington and the middle east is so many members have legitimate passports to get into this country undetected. so why would they be crossing the texas border? >> well, i think you, most americans understand that that border is insecure that individuals who not necessarily just isis but countries that harbor terrorists we know that pakistan syria, individuals from those countries have been apprehended crossing the texas border coming into the united states. those are the ones we know about. how many have come in that we don't know about that don't have a passport don't want a passport. but have arms on tear minds, harm on their mind those are the individuals we worry about. those are exactly the reason i deployed the national guard to our border. because this administration refuses to do their constitutional duty and put the resources. for instance the faa still does not allow for the use of drones

to fly up and down the united states border. >> why not? >> i can't answer that question. >> are we going to let amazon drop them but not at the border? >> the technology is so advanced today. we can tell exactly what activities individuals are involved with. we send fast response teams to make those apprehensions at that particular point in time. rather than the strategic fencing in the metropolitan areas. it works. we got hundreds of miles of nothing but raw brutal country out on that mexican-u.s. border and the u.s. and texas side. >> it can also save a lot of lives. >> indeed. >> of people so they don't end up. it's a humanitarian thing to do as well. >> coming up rachel ray joins us an issue close to her heart. it has nothing to do with food. >> nothing. not at all. day you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal...

.

. who here wants a dog? oh. . >> we know how important helping animals this year. so in your honor. >> oh look at all the babies. >> we know how important it is

to you to help animals everywhere, so in honor of your 45th birthday we're going to help find homes for all 45 pups. maltese, german shepherd. it's a smorgasbord of cuteness. >> rachel ray is known for making quick and healthy meals, she is making big strides outside the kitchen, raising awareness about pet adoption. rachel joins us now, have you ever been on the show before? >> never, i'm usually running, climbing stairs watching you guys for hours on end. >> you watch the show? >> i watch every morning. way too early as well. >> and the concernle? >> and emma. >> and emma. my cat. and cajun. she's a pretty avid viewer joe. >> yeah. >> there is emma. >> you get quite a few rescue cats. >> she's bad. she's bad. she mocks joe often when joe is

in emma's presence. >> my mom has a lot of rets coup cats. they have big personalities, let's just say. >> they do. they do. i'm glad she's a little of a "morning joe" fan, we don't have to get to know each other. are you all read in. but shelter cats are beautiful. this is the pain reason you are on today. we will talk food and stuff and carley's instagram account in just a moment. but i just caught you talking to the guys here. your mom has a lot of cats. >> my mom has actually 15 rescue cats. >> she's a cat lady. >> some of them live outside, some live inside they've all been fixed and go to the doctor and all that. we are finally launching a nutrish for cats. we started a pet initiative 100% of my animal food goes to rescues large and small. we raced over $6 million with our kibble and wet food. we finally have cat food now,

every nick emof my proceeds goes directly to animal rescue so not only sit great quality food you can read it like a menu. i care very much about the ingredients, of course because my own child is a red nosed pitbull. he just got 65 pounds. >> oh my gosh. >> so having quality food that would do good for a lot of other animals was very important. >> joe, she has chicken percata, ocean fish and chicken caccetori, ocean fishaliciouses a flavors, i like them. >> i think the colonel is licking her lips at home. >> the colonel is going to dig it. >> going to dig it. mark halperin. >> yeah so that cat food must be made in china, i bet? >> no it is not. >> what i'm kidding, setting you up. where is it made? >> all our dry food is made in america the seafood and wet food

comes from thailand. food is not made in china. i started a line of dog food because i wanted to have a high quality product for my own animal. we actually based our model for our nu the trish on human kids designing products that we wanted to sell and bring to market in order to fund our initiative and our efforts, so we don't have to have fund raisers and rely on donations. there is constantly revenue coming in. >> is this already for sale? >> yes, this just came out a couple months ago, the cat food. the dog food has been out six years. >> everyone on the set is trying to get me to eat it. they brought me a fork. >> the ingredients you can read. >> i have tried the kibble. i don't know. >> make the transition to people. >>t the meant for cats. >> first lady michelle obama obviously is working with congress trying to get a school

lunch program. what is your sort of insight on this and. >> our children's initiative yomo has been working on improving school food and lowering obesity rates and trying to help with the next door neighbor from obesity to hunger. i think the only level playing field for battling hunger among american kids and the obesity rate at the same time is through school food. i think it makes great sense to improve the quality of our school food. it's the only way to control health care costs of the future. and it's just a good ting. i think it's very concerning to me that that's something that everybody can't seem to come together on. >> you have been in on the conversation. why is it so difficult? >> you know you would think this is a no-brainer that everybody could get behind. >> right. >> i really don't get it. especially, considering how much we fight about health care costs. this is the only way to attack that is for the future is to

attack it in our school food programs. and, you know, there is a lot of debate now about rolling back some of the progress we've made some of the kids aren't making the health care choices, well, maybe we should make all of the choices healthy choices, here in new york mayor deblasio just secured free nutritious meals for all of our middle school kids all of our junior high kids which is very exciting. that's big news here in new york. >> isn't the biggest barrier the power of the ter tot industry? >> i think you can make money, there are still vending machines in the caf terria now they're selling water and natural juice drinks and healthier choices, nobody is saying we want to put large food service companies out of business just let's make healthier choices. >> "morning joe's" best of 2014 closing the confidence gap. >> claire shipman reveal the answer. we'll be right back.

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a cutting edge book for working women of all ages at all stages of tear career. >> it's a shock to me researchers say men are still more confident tan women in the work place. a headline generating book this year showed how all that can be changed. it's time to talk about confident. i must say i am feeling inadequate when i look around this table. look at the bright colors. >> look at the energy. >> orange is the new orange actually. so anyway. this is beg. this is beg. not since 1913 "gone with the wind" in atlanta, georgia, one book caused the excitement. look, have you seen the stlik? >> thank you, it's unbelievable. so congratulations, very very excited. >> it's all about confidence, with us to talk about it. abc constrictor liz shipman and catty kay, self asheerns what

women should know and editor-in-chief of cosmo joanna coles, of course catty, we have been joking about it mica has spoken to women and the first thing she says all the time is don't say your sorry. you are not sorry. have the confidence to go with what you believe n. talk about "the confidence code." >> that's where it came from. we would interview people on the top of business military people you expect to be brooming with confidence. we came up with tradess, i'm just licky to have got therech i was in the right place at the right time. we found self doubt. we looked into the research to see if there was a confident gap between pen and women and the statistics were extraordinary. we talked about this earlier, men over estimate their abilities 30% on average, women tends to underestimate their abilities. there was a study in the u.k. asking young draut students what

do you deserve to earn five years out of college the men would say i think i deserve $80,000 t. women would say, i deserve $64,000. it's a 20% gap in what we feel we deserve. >> i will say that is remarkable, claire that, men, men don't, you know, women want what, you know they think works best for everybody. men are about i deserve this i did this. >> it's not us a, men, there is a lot of evidence that men lean towards overconfidence. what i will say is it's not fraud it's natural. as columbia university did a study. we found it's natural overconfidence. men aren't faking it. they tend to think they're a little better than they are. my favorite statistic is the hewlett packard statistic and other studies have backed this upch when looking at promotion, women apply for promotion when they feel they have 100% of the job kwauvgs men will go for that

promotion at 60%. can you imagine how that plays out over decades in the work place. i think that's why we think the confidence gap is actually. >> it's holding women back. men are quite right. you can learn the rest of the skills on the job. >> it plays out. we've seen women earn 80 cents on the dollar for the dollar that the man earns. so it sort ofsh not only do they feel it. it's been projected as a reality. with i is so interesting about the book. have you so much science in here as well. which is what i loved about it. i think it's essential for young women to read to understand why they'd feel the self doubt they inevitably do and how to get through it. >> i read it and thought this should be mandatory reading for the men in the world. every man is either a father of a girl or the husband or the boss and, you know, i worked in the bush white house where women were elevated above men in many areas, so to me this is about

how all those things make men superior. we're talking about having hillary clinton run and possibly being the tom knee. i think we are at a point we can talk about how they make womenerrio. what is the plus side of that gap? does the humility make it easy to approach? is there something about self deprecating charm or humor that makes them better managers? we have been talking about everything that makes sense in the interior. >> numberally we came away with a positive conclusion that first of all confident does matter you do actually have to believe in your ability in order to take the next step. confidence can look forward from that dominating every meeting, talking longest and loudest. being the sort of having that bravado. it doesn't have to look leak that. one of the most confident women which interviewed, she draws on other people's opinions cease very warm. she's accessible.

she's not at all overbearing, yet, she is confident. >> she had a great phrase. she was taught she cautioned us early on. she was one of our first interviews. she said women in trying to gain more confidence should not make the mistake of looking like men. she told us a storiant a new leader a president, a female leader of a third world country who had cut back on the size of her motorcade the country is broke, got a lot of criminal for. that she looked less powerful. the guard told her counterintuitively, do not listen to them dare the difference, own what you feel is right and make a virtue of it. >> that's another thing to mica in her familiar value, she was talking about what worked for me. >> right. >> breaking down the wall and then going to phil and sake dam it i deserve this and da da da da da and phil and i fighting and ten talking baseball.

it didn't work for her. it was a nightmare for her. >>someone comes to me and says dam it this is what i deserve. i also think and one of the things we have been very conscious that cosmo is making sure that we have enough images of women if powerful positions and you talk about valerie jarrett in the book recently advice no to the president. very specifically looking leak she's telling the president what to do. so she's not in a submissive position. she's actually got her hands out, he is slightly shrinking back. i feel if you can't see it you can't be it. we need more images in popular culture to reflect back to women. i think if four of us sitting here if these bright colors is only a start. >> coming up mica, we're months away from the conclusion of the beloved series "mad men." . >> thath through whineer sits down to talk about the first

feature film. more from "morning joe" best of 2014, still to come. .

. >> today's high gets up to 65 degrees with unlimited visibility. if we get this nothinglehead see clear down to ocean city. coldest spot in the nation. why, that honor goes to bismarck. >> smooth as silk. that seem to you like someone on drugs? >> and at 100 percent humidity and 89 degrees, hawaii is both the hottest and wettest spot in

the nation. i guess that makes it the number one destination for teenage boys hey, victoria. >> i guess so steve. >> oh my god. back to you. we go back a long way, my friend, a long way. >> yes, thank you very much -- maybe our earliest supporter of the show. i guess you had basic cable back then. >> i had basic cable. and immediately called over to amc, i need the first season. i just sat there and watched it. talk about binge watching. let's talk about the movie first. then we'll get to "mad men." tell us about it. obviously, that looks hilarious. >> it's kind of the first thing i wrote after "mad men." i write the pilot for "mad men" and then i wrote it right after. it plays a little bit on the way that we feel like we're in a movie at so point. zach and owen play best friend.

i think they think they're living in a stoner comedy. but they're in their early 40s. you find out they have some serious problems. and it was just a chance to play with the idea of like what holds a friendship together. >> tell me because i've watched the internship like during my vacation seven, eight times on hbo. what is it about owen wilson? i love owen wilson. what is it about that man on screen? that makes everybody love him? >> i wrote the movie for him. one of the things that was fun, it really plays with his on-screen persona. he's a little guileless. he's a little wasted. he has trouble with authority. he's unreliable. but he also sort of becomes a story about what happens if that guy has to look at himself in the mirror like what's going on underneath that. the thing i love about owen is

he has this warmth. he has a kind of bill murray sort of glibness to him. which i love. but he's also really an actor. i think there's kind of a little -- and there's a sensitive to him. he's super smart. which i think also kind of goes against the entire character he's playing. >> can you script zach galifianakis? >> you can. zach is a real actor. he learned his lines. -- people know that. you don't need to script him, some degree. he radiates kind of warmth and he's just like a really nice guy. we shot in north carolina which is where he's from. and he was -- he's just a lot of -- exactly what you would want. >> the description you gave of owen and the fact you had him in mind for this part the description you give maybe not a director's dream in terms of putting a guy that could be a

little guileless and a little -- >> that's his character, you know? >> but he can take direction -- >> an oscar nomination for writing. i don't. he's really smart. so i -- he's playing a person. he's thoughtful about it. but there's something that he does with the silence. there's something about these characters. a lot of the movie's about telling the truth. says exactly what's going on in the moment no matter how incredibly awkward it is. you see that. he gets away with it. i don't even know what that quality is. i don't know if it's a childhood thing. but there's always a mystery about -- about stardom and about what people -- you talk about characters talking or getting into the screen what they give off. for me he's always had this -- like there's a little bit of thought underneath all of that. there's a little bit of sadness. the movie has this sort of change of tone. i think you will see owen and

zach doing things they've never done before. >> let's talk about "mad men." this season is a little darker. it reminded me of a documentary where you have all these people you love but it seeps to be surrounded by -- a lot of sadness. >> it's also a story of triumph. this is the thing about telling a story. there's going to be 92 hours when this thing is done. one of the things you want to do is not repeat yourself. but you have to mix it up. part of it is take the next step in his life. in the previous season he had ruined his life. it was the story of 1968. also the story of don falling apart. his daughter found out he was having an affair. his drinking was out of control. >> how ironic don didn't get in trouble while he was lying. he only got in trouble when he told the truth. and that was before we had that wonderful scene with sally at the end who's the most extraordinary actress.

just extraordinary. but she asked why he had gotten fired after he kept it from her. basically because i told the truth. >> yes. >> at the wrong time. >> not great parenting probably to share that with your kid but she knows a lot of things about him that we don't know about her parents hopefully. and the story of last season was kind of a -- him working his way up in his own business. kind of saying what you're waiting for him to self-destruct, you're waiting for him to work on his impulses. you're waiting for him to be selfish. and you're hoping that he can repair his relationship with peggy. and telling that story, when we did that in particular with sally, which was written by jonathan ingala you're like we got to see him, like he has to tell the truth. he has to tell the truth to her. and that scene at the end, you know, which is every parent's dream -- >> it's unbelievable.

it's the payoff. >> don draper a lot of his wife is about his relationship his horrible childhood. he has just learned you really got to work a lot harder to lose the love of your kids. every time the show can have a genuine earned emotion, i think it distinguishes it. i think it distinguishes it from the kind of, like, you know more formulaic stuff. >> right. >> stay with us, we'll be right back. but i'm a bit skeptical of sure things. why's that? look what daddy's got... ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!! growth you can count on from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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interviews this year. >> from living in a trailer park to running for governor wendy davis did not hold back in a very personal memoir. he she joined us to talk about her life and how she became a rising star in the democratic party. >> let's talk about the book. you decided to go there. >> in a lot of ways. >> it's a really tough book. a lot of people obviously talked about your filibuster. but you -- while you're reading the story of other women who had abortions under