i'm district attorneyorian waren. the order instructs the treasury department to target individuals and entities associated with the repressive government citing the repressive actions and pollties and destructive and coercive cyberattack on sony pictures entertainment. joining me now is chris jansing. happy new year. >> happy new year. >> what do these sanctions entail in? >> they go after north korea's entities and key government organizations, but also ten individuals where it hurts most in the pocketbook. there is a bigger picture here. this is the first time the u.s. has used sanctions in response

to this kind of cybercrime. it reflects a growing concern that potential attackers are more sophisticated and dangerous. we used to worry about defacing a website to destructive and costly acts and coercion. the sanctions go after north korea's primary intelligence agency primary arms agency and ten individuals who are heavily involved in the arms trade. that is what is interest here is the people weren't involved in the hacking itself but they are part of the inner circle of kim jong-un. this is going to make it very hard for them and these government agencies to do business. in other words, it's going to make it very difficult for them to use international banks, other entities to get their business done and sends a message to other countries who are a threat to u.s.

cybersecurity like russia iran and china. they say bottom line, a line was crossed here. there is a price to pay and the white house says this is just the start given the fbi's ongoing investigation into the hack. >> they cite the sony cyberattack as one of the provocations. is the white house confident that north korea is responsible. scott borg wrote that north korea has never before demonstrated advanced hacking capabilities and has hardly any way of acquiring those capabilities. >> that question came up today. and administration officials felt very strongly about this. that there wasn't a lot of evidence to suggest that they weren't capable of doing it. in order, they say we remain very confident in our assessment now. there is as we said, this ongoing fbi investigation. but there is a very hard push

back and they say, in fact that the number of private companies who have given an assessment that north korea isn't sophisticated enough to pull it off, the number is strong. they are sticking by what they originally said. and i think they are look at this as just a first step. there will be other actions that are public as this is and covert actions. >> any indication who disrupted north korea's internet last week? >> isn't that one of the key questions? there is a line in a release from the white house today that said this is the first -- the first retribution for what happens with sony. so the obvious question is does that mean that the disruptions in north korea's internet last week were not caused by the united states? that would be something that would fall under covert operations and the united states certainly is not going to confirm or deny that but what one white house official said

today that people who question that might want to consider the number of other options it could have been disrupted including north korea doing it itself. while the united states is not confirming or denying there is a suggestion that that was not what the united states was talking about when they said that north korea would have to pay for the sony hacking. >> nbc's chris jansing traveling with the president. thank you. >> you're welcome. overseas to indonesia now where 30 bodies have now been recovered from airasia flight 8501. 12 were found today many by a u.s. navy ship. in a few hours, the full search effort will continue. but extreme weather conditions are likely to hamper the effort to recover the plane's wreckage. they have yet to recover the fuselage and the flight recorder. nbc's london correspondent kobe cobiella has more on this story.

>> reporter: even at this hour there are ships in the north java sea searching the sea floor with sonar trying to find any sign of the fuselage from this plane. they are also looking at the sea surface but it is difficult to search at night and even during the day. they are working against the weather yet again. very high seas violent number thunderstorms. making it hard to spot the bodies and debris in the first place. they recovered 21 bodies today, including two according to the search and rescue chief in indonesia, who were still strapped in their seats at the surface of the sea. that information has not been independently verified by nbc news. some identifications have been made as well. four people have now been identified and their bodies have been returned to relatives among

them a school teacher in her late 40s. a flight attendant who had been working for airasia for two years. an 11-year-old boy and 22-year-old man, all from indonesia. the ceo of airasia tweeted he had no words to explain the loss of that flight attendant in particular, he was accompanying her back to her hometown in indonesia and attending her funeral. back to you, dorian. >> joining me now is foreign affairs correspondent and retired officer, michael kay and retired nbc news correspondent bob hager. thank you for joining me. it's still unclear what caused the plane to crash and what we know is there were still bodies strapped to the seats. is there anything we can glean from the fact that the bodies were strapped to the seats? >> i think the first thing to know is it will be unclear for a

long time. air france 447 it was over two years before investigators ascertained the how, how it came to its crash or landing place. i think this is a really interesting piece in terms of finding seats with the souls still attached to the bodies. investigations are like a jigsaw puzzle and every piece we find adds to complementing or exposing that bigger pictures. finding souls strapped to seats will allow the investigators to do a number of things. hopefully they will identify the bodies in the seats and look at the manifest and see where those people were sitting. if they find more seats with bodies attached to them in the same aisle or behind them it will give clues how the aircraft came to land where it did, if it broke up at altitude. everything contributes to this

big picture but we won't get the overall picture for some time to come. >> bob, there is no sight of the fuselage or the black box. the batteries powering the pingers have about 24 days left of power. is weather the biggest obstacle at this point? >> well weather is an obstacle. i understand it is supposed to clear by sunday. so that may improve their chances. another thought on the fact that the bodies were still strapped on in the seats i think that is further evidence that the plane did not break up in the air. the biggest thing now is to find that main fuselage because first of all, the priority is the recovery of the bodies. by the way, the fact they recovered these 30 bodies. there are 132 they haven't recovered suggests to me that

these bodies are still trapped in the fuselage and further evidence that the fuselage may be intact or a couple of big piece. once they locate it that will speed things up to know where the reminders of the bodies are and the crucial black boxes. >> michael, the hardest part for this is the uncertainty involved. do you think there are any survives? >> i think at this stage a chance of diminishing returns. we have to be realistic about this. never say never, but as every day goes by, the chances become slimmer and slimmer. what i will say we learned a lot from mh 370 and i think we're past that now with 8501 in terms of the wreckage has been identified, bodies are starting to be identified. we don't have that for mh 370. as hard as it is to accept at least the families will be able to start grieving and getting a

little bit of closure. as bob pointed out, once we find the main fuselage, hopefully identifying the 132 still to be accounted for, it's so important for families. i lost 15 friends in accidents in the military. what is important when you are around the families at the funerals and how they go forward in grieving is that closure and having somewhere to go to lay flowers and pay their respects that is important for the grieving process. >> bob, what is your concern level for indonesian air safety. the crash rate is 25 times the rate in the u.s. the pacific region accounts for 31% of all air traffic. it will increase to 42% over the next two decades. are you concerned about air safety? >> some. they have not been blacklisted but next to blacklisted.

their priority has not been that great on some of the safety lists by the united nations and others. for some years now it is getting better and this particular airline has a very good record. but overall the record in indonesia is not terrific, no. >> michael kay and bob hager, thank you very much. will the 2016 presidential campaign prove that florida is the center of the political universe. america is at war but what are we calling it? and later, the pragmatism of mario cuomo. >> mr. president if you asked a woman that had been denied the help she needed to feed her children because you said you needed the money for a tax break for a millionaire or a missile we couldn't afford to use.

201620162017 so far, 2015 is shaping up to be a good year for same-sex marriage. a federal judge in florida ordered that county clerks must issue marriage licenses to all same-sex couples and it's the 36th state in the country where same-sex marriages are legal. this week former florida governor jeb bush who said two weeks ago he was actively exploring a run for the presidency quit all his private sector and non-profit board memberships and marco rubio says he hasn't made a decision yet but it will come soon. joining me is washington bureau chief at the huffington post ryan grimm. thank you for joining me. ryan, let me start with you.

we know one word used to describe jeb bush is moderate. how moderate is jeb bush especially on same-sex marriage and immigration, where do you think he will come down? >> i think the word that is more appropriate to use for him is politician. you have politicians and you have movement conservatives and you have some politicians who have fashioned themselves as movement conservatives. but what it means to say he is a politician is that if there is a huge push from the far right that gains traction, then he will move in that direction. if the moderate more pragmatic wing of the party looks like it is ascendant then he can move that direction. you know he has been in public life for decades, which requires a sort of compromise and

pragmatism and that's what you see with him. >> when asked this week whether the gop should take up immigration reform senator rubio said no and said those who said it will be a bona za for the republicans are not telling the truth. so the republicans have a plan around immigration for 2016. >> they are split between two things. they want to do it to get it out of the way and the tea party wing opposes any action. but to your point, it is interesting where he is now. he suffered a ravaging defeat when he stuck his neck out in 2013. so rubio is taking a -- you know, a step back and saying let's do border security before we talk about anything else. >> so ryan let's ask the big question, can jeb bush get his

party's nomination given the divide between his politics and the social conservatives and we know last week he declined an invitation to speak at a summit. can he get the nomination given the structure of republican party politics? >> i think the answer to that is no. but however anybody could get the nomination at this point. if you think back to 2012 you had folks like herman cain and newt gingrich who were front runners at different moments. this is a party that's going through an identity crisis and figuring out where they're planning to go from here. so in that situation, somebody that survives the longest could wind up with the nomination. now, on education and immigration, which are two issues that have you know elements of the base that are deeply passionate about them he's on the wrong side of both

of those issues and that could be fatal. but on the other hand there's nobody that has it -- you know, a shoe in. >> so let me ask you a similar question in terms of how formidable a front runner jeb bush is. jeb bush resigns as george w. bush's brother. how formidable is he? >> i think he will be formidable. if you look historically every presidential race they nominate someone who is more electable. >> like mitt romney. >> john mccain was that person. so you know the presidency is a family business for the bushes. but we saw in a cnn poll there is a jeb boomlet, he has potential. >> rubio says his announcement

will come soon. who does jeb entrant into this race hurt the most? chris christie rubio, paul others? >> it's probably chris christie. those are the two that are the most comfortable in manhattan, where a lot of that republican -- that type of republican money comes from. so you know i think chris christie's troubles over the last year since bridgegate got jeb bush thinking more seriously about running and his weakness is why he is stepping in. he's going to be the serious -- the serious republican whereas people like rand paul and marco rubio, ted cruz they're going to try to rally the energy and the enthusiasm and the optimism and the anger of the base rather than jeb bush's kind of i can win this thing. >> same question. who does jeb hurt the most by

entering the race? >> marco rubio. a big challenge he will face is the crowding out effect. jeb bush will top the florida money and he's going to have competition from rand paul and ted cruz for the tea party money. where is his home base? it's unclear. to your other point, jeb bush's other big problem is that he is a bit rusty in modern politics. the last time he ran, facebook, twitter and the huffington post did not exist. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> jury selection starts monday in the trial of boston marathon bombing suspect, zoe scar zoor my yev. what to expect, next?

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on dzhokhar tsarnaev. they would like more time to prepare because of the amount of evidence in the case. they requested it be held in another district. tsarnaev faces 30 counts including murder. the attacks injured 266 people and killed three others in 2013. just ahead, he stood up for little guy and against injustice where he saw it. >> a shining city is perhaps all the president sees from the portico of the white house and the van da of his ranch where everyone seems to be doing well. >> the political lessons of mario cuomo, next on "now." s, and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. papa:sometimes, in football, you go for 2.

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maybe, mr. president if you visited some more places if you went to appalachian where people live in sheds if you went to lack juana where thousands of steelworkers wonder why we subsidize foreign steel, maybe -- maybe, mr. president, but i'm afraid not. because the truth is ladies and gentlemen, that this is how we were warned it would be. >> that was former new york governor mario cuomo giving a legendary key note address. he died last night at the age of

28 after his son andrew was sworn in for his own second term as new york governor. >> he could not be here physically, my father. but my father is in this room. he is in the heart and mind of every person who is here. >> cuomo's passionate defensive liberalism came at a type of retreat. many blue collar white voters were defecting from the party. cuomo wasn't just a proponent of aggressivism he practiced it. he signed sweeping ethics legislation in the wake of scandals in albany. in 1991 pressure for cuomo to seek the presidency was so intense he had two chartered airplanes waiting for him. he declined to run.

but perhaps more than any other politician he was a public thinker. >> and of course i can offer you no final truths complete and unchallengeable. but it's possible that this one effort will support over efforts that will help all of us to understand our differences and perhaps even to discover some basic agreement. in the end i'm convinced we will all benefit if suspicion is released by discussion. joining me is former new york mayor and steve karnaky. thank you for joining me. mr. mayor i want to start with you and get your reaction to the 1984 speech but i know you wanted to say something first. >> yeah well i've put down a couple of words when i first heard that the governor had passed and i appreciate being permitted to say this.

martin luther king reminded us that on occasions like this we should keep in mind that death is not a period that ends a great sentence of life but a comma that punctuates it to more lofty significance. death is not a blind alley that lead s intoa state of nothingness but an open door which leads into life eternal. i know that there is little that can be said to console matilda and andrew and chris and the rest of the family but if they bear that in mind and i often say, unfortunately because i am old, i'm older than mario. so i go to a lot of funerals and memorials. and when -- on those occasions when i speak i always conclude

my remarks with reminding people that it's said to serve others is the rent paid to have a space on earth. >> let me ask you both to respond to that 1984 convention speech. i was struck rewatching it how much it could be delivered today and one of the lessons i think governor cuomo taught us is you can't beat republicans with facts but you need a story. how relevant is that for us today? >> that was so much of mario cuomo's appeal and the appeal of that speech is who he was and what he represented. he was the son of italian immigrants. he talks about the el kwans of watching his father working away ridiculous hours, working until he had callouses and blood

on his hands in this grocery store in new york. he spoke with the pride of the immigrant and the immigrant experience. and that was the story of the democratic party for so much of the 20th century, voters like that connected to the politics and government of the country because of the new deal and the great society, there was this powerful bond between mario cuomo and families like his, the democratic party and the golf. in 1984 when he delivered that speech, that bond had been broken in half. ronald reagan had become a face of the conservative movement that said you maybe needed the government back then but now it's about the individual. that speech in 1984 was a call to all those people who came from backgrounds like his saying don't forget where you came from. >> mr. mayor, you have taught me this famous line from mario

cuomo, you campaign in poetry and govern from prose. do you think the qualities that made him a great orator held him back as a leader? >> people have been asking me all day, why didn't he run for president? why didn't he become a supreme court justice? my answer is i don't know. >> which we know he was flirting with that as well under president clinton in the first term in '93 he was debating being nominated. >> he is known as and has a reputation of being a legal scholar and one would have thought he would have been delighted and happy in that post. why he didn't seek the presidency, i don't know. but i know as one who was fortunate enough to become mayor of this great city when you look at it you have 8 million plus people.

and you have the academy. you have wall street. you have madison avenue. you have all these bright people, to say nothing of the media. so why should any one person say, i should be it? >> right. >> but that's what some of us do. and i really don't know. except that he's a really gifted guy. keep in mind when he first ran for governor and won, his son was i think, 23 24 years old and was his campaign manager. >> right. >> i remember i was a district leader at the time and i complained to one of the leaders, you know i never met mario. and this guy said well i take you to meet the kid, meaning andrew. >> steve, same question. you have been researching the life and career of mario cuomo, former mayor, what is your sense

of why he didn't take the plunge? >> i think there is something interesting about him. he is fascinating and impossible to read at the same time. but there is something in him where he was attracted to the romance of the lost cause or the long shot cause. he saw nobility in that i think. when he ran for mayor of new york in 1977 this was the summer of sam. and what does he proudly run on in that campaign? an opponent of capital punishment. he saw nobility in making that case in that moment. the speech at 1984 in the convention that is the darkest hour for american libbalism. reagan is about to win 49 states and he delivers a valentine to the new deal. in 1991 when he almost gets in the presidential race. george h.w. bush sitting at 90% in the polls. no one wants to run. mario cuomo says i'm interested

in this. and in december he says i might win this thing and that's the moment he gets out. i wonder if there is something about that. >> mr. mayor, you mentioned meeting the kid earlier. i'm going to ask you about andrew cuomo and ask is he compensating or overcompensating for his father's limitations? >> i don't accept that his father had limitations. but andrew is quite a fella. you may remember that when we were in office we gave him this position to do with the homeless. and he just sort of never looked back from that. i don't say that we are entitled to any credit for his asencendsy. >> why not? >> i take the blame for it.

but it's interesting you should mention mario's quote because i supported barack obama. and charlie rangel and i went to south carolina. but the closest i ever came to say anything negative about obama is that you campaign in poetry but you govern in prose. i have never seen anyone who can use a teleprompter in superior fashion to him. the media helps him a lot because they don't have the panels in. they just see his face most of the time. he's a very articulate guy. >> same question to you, steve. the governor -- the current

governor is a bit more conservative than his father. do you think he is trying to fulfill some unrealized ambition? >> it's clear that andrew cuomo is not torn when it comes to the idea of running for president. people have been clear about it it is something he is interested in. he is blocked out from doing it by hillary clinton. but the interesting thing to keep in mind mario cuomo was his father but he worked with bill clinton and there is more bill clinton in his politics. >> thank you david dinkis. great to see you. >> you can catch up with steve karnaky weekends at 8:00 a.m. on msnbc. the chasm when the soldiers and the decision makers continues to grow. how to change that? just ahead.

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this week marked the end of combat operations in afghanistan but american troops are still fighting in that battlefield and new ones. more on america's perpetual war next but it's first the cnbc market wrap. >> here's a look at how the stocks stand, the dow rising ten points and the s&p is flat and the nasdaq down nine points. that's it from cnbc. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress. and effortlessly turn your photos into finished projects with our angie's list app. visit angieslist.com today. ♪

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as a country, america has been at war nonstop for the past 13 years. as a public it has not. so writes this cover story, the tragedy of the american military. the article warns of the growing chasm between the number of

americans in the military and the vast majority of civilians. >> we are able to gather with family and friends because the troops are able to hug theirs good-bye and go to serve. we can come home because they are willing to leave their families and deploy. we can celebrate the holidays because they are willing to miss their own. >> only 2.5 million americans, less less than 1% of the population have served in iraq or afghanistan. the result is an american public increasingly disconnected from the wars it wages and the people who wage them. cheering the troops at halftime ceremonies without really understanding or addressing their concerns. this has a direct impact on policy. the american public will do anything for the military except take it seriously. the result is a chicken hawk nation where careless spending combine to lure america into

endless wars it can't win. the end of combat operations in afghanistan passed without much fanfare. the americans are celebrating the holidays as the war against isis continues with daily air strikes and roughly 2,000 noncombat troops in iraq see the fighting edging ever closer. joining me is the correspondent for "the atlantic," james fallows. and jonathan landay thank you for joining us. you argue the growing divide between those overs seas and civilians back home has policy ramifications. you quote mike mullen as saying fewer and fewer people know anyone in the military. it's become too easy to go to war. >> it's one thing for somebody

like me to say i think it has become too easy to go to war but to have mike mullen the chairman of the joint chiefs to say that has some weight. at previous times in american history especially in the generation after world war ii america was familiar enough with the military to understand it the way it understands it other big institutions to respect it the way we do schools and the medical system and courts but recognize its shortcomings. we have come to a situation where few people are exposed to the realities of the military. there are twice as many people living on farms as there are serving on active duty or reserves. we have replaced what i view as hollow easy celebration at game halftimes for serious engagement with where we commit troops around the world. >> the "new york times" reported on the death of a soldier in

afghanistan who was a jamaican immigrant from new york on his fifth deployment. flags were not lowered to half staff and only after his friends complained. we had to call to remind them. the whole country has forgotten. people don't realize we still have troops risking their lives out there. what is your reaction to this idea of this growing divide between the civilians and militaries? >> i think much of what jim writes is absolutely true about this growing divide the fact that we have an all volunteer force. but i would caveat that. the american public is not totally divorced from what the military is doing. we see that in military policy. you have obama responding to public pressure to take troops out of iraq and afghanistan.

we saw drawdowns in both and in iraq, a complete withdrawal and then you saw candidate obama -- i'm sorry, president obama continuing to react to public opposition to getting embroiled in deep wars in the middle east. that's why we saw this syria policy of nonintervention and indeed as iraq was starting to go south, until we saw the american freelance journalist james foley and steven sotloff beheaded by the islamic state and you saw public sentiment turn in supporting limited u.s. intervention and that's what we have with air strikes and a growing advisory mission in iraq and we're going to see more american troops staying in afghanistan than was planned but the result is yes, you end up having this semipolicy that's in response to what public

sentiment is and not going to where the military leadership want and you is this policy with this continual warfare. >> on this point about public sentiment, how do you explain the disconnect where america has more confidence in the institution than any other institution and yet it believes it is failing in its missions in iraq and afghanistan. we have a june nbc news poll showing 65% of americans think it was not worth it in terms of the war in afghanistan versus 20% who believe it was. >> i try to argue in this piece that those are two sides of the same thing, an artificial and arm's length relationship with the military. i'm not saying there is an entire separation but compared to other times in american history a less realistic

connection. the confidence in the military is the erosion of other national institutions and they have all gone down except for the military. but the substitution of calling military leaders and troops all categorically heroes as a way of substituting for genuine involvement with them. it leads to not less serious thought and deliberation before troops are sent to battle than would be the case if more people felt a connection to what is going on. i have got thousands of responses from people in the military agreeing with this premise. if more of the public was involved they would be committed more carefully around the world. >> on this point when you speak to american troops do they feel this growing divide between themselves and the people back home? >> absolutely. you know it got to the point in afghanistan where troops were you know openly saying what are we doing here? we don't understand what we're fighting for. this is a situation that we have

not been able to prevail in. u.s. policy was, you know totally dysfunctional and continues to be dysfunctional when it comes to afghanistan because it doesn't address the main problem which is the refuge that the taliban has in neighboring pakistan. so american troops are very much aware of this growing divide and yet, as jim writes in his piece they are willing to salute and go do the mission they are assigned. >> james i want to ask about solutions. how can we fix this growing divide between service members and civilians short of a return to the draft. and charlie rangel has consistently called for a draft being weremented or a national service requirement. what are the solutions here? >> we have an essay who says he was drafted in the 1950s and the

difference that made. theoretically that would be a solution but it won't happen in the america of our times. the first step is recognizing it is an issue to be dealt with. the 9/11 commission did an important job of saying how did we get to that point? there should be a commission to assess the long wars in afghanistan and iraq and what we have learned dealing with this kind of conflict but recognizing the problem itself is a first step. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up when france's top economist was awarded the legion of honor yesterday, he said no rejecting the award. what his snub to france really means. that's next. [ snow intensifies ]

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ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra. french economist thomas pickety who received rave

reviews on his book and became a surprise best seller is making headlines for rejecting france's highest honor. the economist said i refuse the nomination because i don't think it is the government's role to decide who is honorable. he is not the first french citizen to reject the award. he follows in a long line to do so. that's all for now. "the ed show" is up next. welcome to "the ed show." live from detroit lakes, minnesota. let's get to work! ♪ >> first of all global warming is not taking place.

it's laughable right now with all the records being sent. >> 2014 will go down as the warmest year around the globe in recorded history. >> i do not believe that human activity is causing the dramatic changes to our climate. >> the carbon emissions regulations are creating havoc. >> calling co-2 a pollutant is doing a disservice to the country and to the world. >> there the not agreement