cancer. he was a man who spent his career covering heroes. and in the end, he became one himself. may he rest in peace. he fought a good fight. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. >> republican leadership in the hot seat. too close to david duke. let's play "hardball." ♪ ♪ >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. well, the republican party, which begins the new year firmly in control of congress does so with a brand new burden. it's chief whip in the house of representatives admits to speaking at a meeting of white supremacists. a group founded by international holocaust denier david duke. steve scalise of louisiana stands now as the party's

entrenched evidence that its promise to reach out to other groups. to the far theft right when it comes to issues of race in this country. meanwhile, we look at a new film and whether it gives president lyndon johnson the respect he earned in pushing the civil rights act in 1964 and the voting rights act a year later. or does it make him a symbol of white resistance. and a especially to a president many consider the greatest civil rights advocate in american history. joining me now, jack king of georgia and ron christie former adviser to vice president dick cheney. let me ask you this. after their losses in 2012 the republican national committee came up with a new strategy to appeal to minority communities called the growth and opportunity report. here's what chairman reince priebus said of that strategy before the national association of black journalists just last

summer. >> last year after the growth and opportunity report, we said we have to engage in every community across america. if we work like dogs day in day out, you know, instead of getting 6% of the black vote across america we work hard we can do a lot better. and that's our goal. >> that's our goal. now comes the news that the third highest ranking republican spoke to an organization founded by david duke neo-nazi, international hol ocaust denier. >> the relationship party want to send a message out there. i don't know whether it's fair to congressman scalise or not, or not fair to him. but associating with david duke is grossly unwise. there's no secret who he is. if you want to send a message,

this would be the opportunity. he should step aside and say whether it's fair or not, we're not going to have this distraction, we really do want to have everybody on board. >> scalise said he didn't know he had spoken to the neo-nazi group. 12 years ago, i spoke to many different louisiana groups as a state rep trying to build support for legislation that focused on cutting wasteful spending eliminating government corruption. congressman, what do you make of this story? it seems to me you always know who you're talking to. if you walk into a group called euro something, it's not euro motors to fix your mercedes. it's a group with an ethnic point of view and you would soon find out it was organized by david duke and you would immediately say i should never have spoken to that group and not waited for 12 years to be caught, which he has been caught. >> well, i think, number one, he has said he's sorry. he regrets it.

>> when did he begin to get sorry? 12 years later? >> you know i don't think it was relevant until the last couple weeks. >> when did he find out he had done it? >> i don't know. i will say this. having been a member of the state legislature in georgia, we did not have staffers. sometimes you do end up talking to groups that somebody pulls you in. as i understood it there was some common membership with the group he spoke to about taxes and with euro. i don't know. i did talk to his office. i got a little bit of information, but what is important, i know steve scalise. he's a man of fine character. this is not part of a pattern. you know democrat louisiana member cedric richards has come out and said he's of high character. >> but if you're a republican leader trying to build a party to include, that wants to get beyond 6% of the black vote the average guy out there is going, wait a minute what are these

guys doing con sorting with people like that? >> i think it looks bad. it's a distraction. whether or not he spoke to this group and knew they were a neo-nazi group or didn't, the fact of the matter, the three of us have given hundreds of speeches. you know when you walk in the group, does this sound right? for what i know he's a man of fine character, but the question is this. the question is did he knowingly go to a group that was a neo-nazi group and speak before them? if he did, he needs to go. if he didn't he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt. >> we all grew up we knew who david duke was. he was this incredible figure in the world. he was a nazi. tim russert said, what make you hate america so much you became a nazi? national committee chair slammed

congressman scalise today. quote, as the new congress begins, nothing discreditings republican claims of outreach and bringing people together more than their decision to keep steve scalise at the top tier of the elected leadership of their caucus. anyone living in this century should have known better than to attend and speak at a white supremacist event. by 2002 when scalise spoke to that group david duke was a known entity in this country. not just in louisiana. i covered that race when he ran for governor. but nationwide. the hateful views he has espoused were widely covered in print and political ads. this stuff was out there. just take a look. >> there's plenty of other places in this country that i could live maybe with some negros that are integrationists. but what are we talking about. >> i don't want to live with negroes. >> the jewish people have been a

blight. i mean as a whole, not every jew, and they probably deserve to go to the ash bin of history. >> you are quoted as saying america is being invaded by third world people and our cultural heritage our freedoms and our racial roots are being battered. do you believe that? >> yes, sir, i do. >> do you still think that adolf hitler is the greatest genius in the world? >> i never said that. >> yeah you did. >> david duke led the ku klux klan as an adult. >> there's no more truly representative symbol of the white race than the fiery cross. it is our symbol. >> he's given the hitler salute. the burning cross, the hitler salute. and had this guy scalise, his state rep didn't know who he

was, didn't know he was meeting with that group. do you believe a gentleman would walk into these clansmans' group and didn't know what the hell was going on? is that credible? >> well i think as ron said if there's something else that we find out that shows you did know, or there's another shoe that falls, they contributed to you, and here's a copy of the speech where you endorsed part of their platform i think we need to get one more something, another shoe. >> let's get off the moral train. none of us are equipped for it anyway. let's get on the political train. everywhere the republicans go they'll have to carry scalise with him. every time he speaks he's not going to speak at the next republican convention i bet you right now. he's known for this and this is all anybody knows about steve scalise, he went to a meeting that was organized and spoke to david duke who was speaking at that group that day. it wasn't like some guy way off

in the distance. putin loves this ethnic crap. will they ever be able to -- i think he's jonah and the whale. i think as long as he's on that boat, that boat's in trouble. >> i think the congressman's right. >> is the republican leadership sound right now with scalise aboard? >> yes they are. >> they're sound to have him up there? >> yes. >> is that okay? >> we do not have any evidence that he knowingly went to a group -- >> i'm asking you, do you -- let's ask you this question. do you believe he didn't know? >> i have a very hard time believing, of all the speeches we've all given that you wouldn't know who you're speaking to. i have a hard time believe it. that's what his excuse is. that's what he said. >> then you buy it? >> yeah. >> how can you buy it? you just said you couldn't. >> you want to get to the politics? >> that's why i'm -- where i'm at. >> i think the democrats are being disgraceful with this.

the democrats are dividing this country on race and they've been playing this race card. i'm sorry. if you want to talk about the grand cleegel, the number three in the senate relation -- >> it's clear the white house smells blood in the water. i think nazi is further up on the chain. here's what josh ernest said of scalise earlier today. >> who they choose to serve in their leadership says a lot about who they are, what their values are, and what the priorities of the conference should be. mr. scalise reportedly described himself as david duke without the baggage. so it will be up to republicans to decide what that says about their conference. >> let's talk turkey. if you're john boehner and you're sitting with this group of people in his loop that have to make these decisions, do you keep scalise aboard and let it burn out? >> i think you have to. we've all seen the scandals. you never know how deep the water is. as it looks right now, i don't think it's going to be there a week from now.

i really don't. >> i think he's right. and i think the white house and our friends in the democratic party are trying to capitalize on this more division, more diversion. >> we'll find out who is right. if the republican party hangs with this guy and everybody forgets about this anyway thank you. coming up, a battle for history. the new movie "selma" presents lyndon johnson as a president who had to be dragged into supporting civil rights. why is the film dramatizing this division in the civil rights effort. and what's the event behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics. and what's the event behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics. and what's the event behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics. and what's the event behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics. behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics. and what's the event behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics. and what's the event behind trashing lbj? this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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the new film "selma" has won praise for its portrayal of dr. martin luther king jr and the confrontation at the bridge in selma, alabama. but a growing number of critics are calling the film's depiction of president lyndon johnson and his relationship to dr. king problematic. the film portrays johnson as reluctant to back king's actions in selma and tentative to push for voting rights measures as quickly as dr. king wants him to. let's watch a clip from the film. >> we want federal legislation granting negros the right to vote unencumbered. >> well that's fine but most of the south is still not desegregating. let's not start another battle when we haven't even won the

first. this voting thing is just gonna have to wait. >> many historians take issue with that portrayal. the director at the lbj library wrote this characterization of the 36th president flies in the face of history. why does the film's mischaracterization matter? because at a time when racial tension is high in this country, from ferguson to brooklyn, it does no good to bastardize one of the most hallowed chapters of the civil rights move by suggesting the president stood in the way of progress. gentlemen, thank you for joining us. i am with anybody who believes in preserving history as it actually happened. tell me did this moment happen when lyndon johnson said slow down guys we're going too fast on voting rights? anything like that ever happen? >> no it didn't. this was the greatest bill he

passed. he said that many times. indeed he told nick catsenback in december of '64 to start drafting a voting rights bill. he and dr. king met in december of '64. andrew young has talked about that meeting. he was there, i wasn't in which he said they were partners. these two men, lyndon johnson and martin luther king were partners. they worked closely together. dr. king lyndon johnson in january of 1965, calls dr. king. they talked on the phone about a lot of things and lbj said nothing will be more important than giving them the vote giving blacks the vote. and doctor which he called dr. king, i want you, you can contribute to this by you and your leaders finding the worst place in the south, get it on the radio, get it in television

get it in the pull pits so that a guy on a tractor in the midwest will say, that's not fair. that's not fair. you do that and i'll be able to shove this bill through up here in washington. >> the middle part of the country was very good on civil rights. civil rights leader andrew young was with dr. king in the white house that december of '64. he said the tension portrayed in the film didn't happen. let's watch him. >> president johnson did not say that it had to wait. he said that i have a great agenda and i can't just -- i just got through, remember this was december, the civil rights act of '64 had just passed in july. so we're coming six months afterwards. and we did not expect him to commit. but we did expect him -- we were really kind of letting him know that we had to pursue voting rights. at the time when we met with president johnson in the middle

of december neither dr. king nor president johnson had thought of selma. >> professor white, what do you think about this getting something like this wrong? and i believe it is wrong. people are saying it's wrong. it didn't happen. there wasn't tension in the room. lbj was not an obstacle to voting rights. he was a champion of voting rights. >> well mr. young's comments also include the fact that president johnson was interested in prioritizing other things at the time. that doesn't mean he was against it. but the entire country, particularly white america was reluctant and measured about these issues because of the tension in that moment. but i have to say, chris, that for me this was an unremarkable aspect of the film in many ways because the film is not about lbj, and in fact the film maker has said she doesn't want to make another white saviour film like "lincoln" or "mississippi

burning." i think that's what's most important. this is a film that's not just about mlk. it's about coretta scott king's role. >> that doesn't sound like an academic view to me. you can't call lbj -- >> chris, this is an academic view. that the way that we report history, it's often multiple narratives and competing interpretations. >> sure but is there a legitimate argument that lbj didn't support the voting rights act? i don't think if there's a contributing narrative at all, because the director of this film will not come out on the record and say what the history was. she says it's her movie. but there's no argument on facts, it seems, even from the professor. there's no argument over facts. lbj was a supporter of voting rights and civil rights. why are we changing this? >> but there is some -- >> give me a chance. >> just a minute. joe cal fano please. >> give me a chance please. let's be clear on this.

there were three great civil rights bills. voting rights was one of them. the voting rights act of '64, when lbj's staff after kennedy's assassination said don't go with that bill. you're going into an election year. and lbj said what the hell is the presidency for? and he went with it and he got it passed. voting rights was on his agenda. sure education was and that conversation with dr. king he points out there will be billions for your people for education. there will be billions for health care. but the most important one is voting. if they get the vote. and the day when we came back from the white house that day, back from the hill that day, he signed it in the car. lbj said to me get on the phone, call catsenback who was the attorney general, i want suits filed. we got to end the poll tax, we got to end the literacy test in the southern states, and i want federal examiners.

and we sent hundreds of federal examiners into virtually every county in those five southern states that week. i mean this was -- in later years and later in his presidency lbj said, we passed a lot of bills medicare medicaid, this and that but the most important bill we passed was the voting rights bill. >> after the images of "selma" were beamed around the country, johnson delivering an address to the country, pushing for voting rights and to embrace the civil rights movement as a whole. let's watch lbj. >> even if we pass this bill the battle will not be over. what happened in selma is part of a far larger movement which reaches into every section and state of america. it is the effort of american

negros to secure for themselves the full blessings of american life. their cause must be our cause too. because it's not just negros but really it's all of us who must overcome the crippling legacy of bigotry and injustice. and we shall overcome. [ applause ] >> james, the democratic party lost the south because of that kind of statement. >> that's right. >> lbj delivered to the white south the entire political history of the democratic party in the south because he stood for civil rights. why take that away from him? why is it seen as a zero sum by this director? they both deserve the credit. there's only one guy that gets

the holiday in this country, that's dr. king. what's the reason to put down lbj to supposedly help the legacy of dr. king? i don't get it. >> my sense of the film it does not put down lbj. the things you are pointing to are historical moments that are beyond the scope of the thing in question in the film itself. but i don't think this film is about lbj or mlk. it's a dramatiesation -- >> i'm going to watch it i'll tell you that. >> that is a very important aspect of the film. so we can debate -- can i finish, please? >> of course pch. >> we can certainly debate the timing and the ways in which lbj supported civil rights but this film is not about that. >> the most important thing about that whole story of selma, it was another example of an incredible partnership before

this president that started out in the south, and this great civil rights leader. they were partners. what we would give to have partners like that today in this country. >> well said. >> -- and in the leadership and in the white house. >> joe cal fano james peterson thank you for coming up. coming up police in new york city once again turn their backs on mayor bill de blasio. when we come back the latest on that rocky relationship and what the mayor needs to do apparently, to turn things around. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. in my world, wall isn't a street... return on investment

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from the mayor. late today mayor de blasio announced year-end crime statistics that included a record low number of murders in new york and referred to the two slain profferolice officers when he touted the police success. >> 35,000 people protect us. as you're going to see in a moment, they do it very, very well. these two brave men we lost, they contributed to this outstanding progress from last year. they didn't get to see the end of the year but they were part of that success. >> l mayor de blasio also acknowledged the tension between city hall and the police and called for improvement. >> rather than get lost in the daily back and forth by the loudest and most disrespectful voices those that have been so loud in this debate in recent weeks, let's talk about where we

need to go as a city. let's talk about a positive vision. let's talk about what the people of this city want us to do together. and i'll tell you this this is a division i think we'll see play out in the near future in new york city. >> where is all this heading? mike paul former adviser to rudy guiliani and val demings, former orlando police chief. what do you make of this thing? you think it's going to go away and every time there's a funeral now, there's a protest by the police against the mayor. they are deeply for whatever reason deeply hurt too sensitive perhaps, but definitely ticked off at what they see as the mayor's position about the police officer on the beat. >> well, chris, you know, it is a very tough time for new york. and police officers see themselves, although 35,000 of them in new york they see themselves as one. one force. one department. one thin blue line. one family.

and what they do realize is that every day that they put on the june uniform, what happened to officer ramos and officer liu, could happen to any one of them. during a tough time in the city with protests and we know many officers have been battered, the officers are also grieving. we cannot forget that. they lost two colleagues very tragically they're grieving too. when one of their leaders talks about his relationship with his biracial son, we teach them to be very careful when they have an encounter with the police. although i don't think the mayor meant it the way it came out, but it hit them hard. and i think they did the only thing really that they can do at this point and that was to turn their backs in silent protest. but you're right, it is time now to come together and move forward. and i think, you know based on the stats that the mayor shared today, obviously this was a department that has worked very

hard all year. something happened. i believe the change happened on the day the mayor made the statement and just like we have to attack race relations in our country head on i think the mayor and the police commissioner should sit down with the officers and talk about that day and that statement head on. >> well said. let me go to mike paul. you know what stunned me, i was watching the funeral, i was in haiti and i can talk about the challenge facing that country on another night, but i tell you, i was so taken by vice president biden's statement at that funeral where he said they call them new york's finest because it's the finest police force in the world. at a time of all this tension and crap being spoken to both sides, here he comes out and says something profound about the institution itself and its history. i thought that was powerful what biden said he didn't have to say it. i don't think it was taking sides, but it was basically saying, yeah there are problems yeah there's crime, yeah there's cops that shouldn't be doing things they did, we can

see that in the case of eric garner, but this is a great police force. i thought it was powerful stuff. >> i think it is a great police force. and i think the majority of cops nationwide are good cops. this is a difficult issue for me. you know i want to say i just came from governor cuomo's wake and we have a mayor that uses a phrase that governor cuomo used which is a tale of two cities. and i still believe that's true today. but cuomo was the originator of that phrase and i bring that up because we need a mayor -- this isn't just about the police force and the police commissioner and the mayor. we need a mayor that is a peacekeeper himself. we need a mayor that is a mediator. mario cuomo was that kind of mediator ironically before he ever became governor. and rest his soul today. exactly in forest hills. we have a mayor that got in on a message of change but we need a mayor that doesn't just have a press conference. i'm a pr guy now, i don't work in politics myself. so i understand what a

impressive is all about. if i were an aide still working for city hall i'd say, mr. mayor, with all due respect, it's time for you personally to start rolling up your sleeves. not press conferences. by the way, those stats were announced already. this is a second press conference where he's announcing those stats and giving a message to the cops. the way to become a peace maker and mediator you stand in the gap between both sides and you're able to bring the police and their union, as well as not just the mayor, but the police union has had some strong messages against communities of color and the protesters that have been out there. those are the three sides that need to be sitting down at the table and that has yet to happen. >> i have to tell both of you, it isn't just a racial thing. police officers have had various opinions. some african american police officers are disgusted with the protests. on the other hand, you have

white police officers who point very clearly themselves personally to the need for reform. it's a great thing about our country when we stop operating tribalistically and say thing that we've thinking through and have experienced. >> amen. >> thank you both. it's great to have you on. up next mike huckabee's joining the republicans three-ring circus for 2016. he may well be the pie'd piper. when you hear what this guy really believes and wants to put on the table for the american people next year hillary will be eating it up. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. with the incredible fuel efficiency of 38 miles-per-gallon highway you can feel like royalty in the nissan altima. now, get great offers on the

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here's what's happening. thousands lined up to pay their respects to former new york governor mario cuomo, including vice president joe biden and nancy pelosi. a private funeral will take place tomorrow. cuomo died last week at the age of 82. jury selection has begun in the trial of boston bombing suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev. he's pleaded not guilty. and the cd c says flu is widespread in 43 states up from 26 states just a week ago. 21 children have died. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the gop's 2016 field sois starting to take shape. former governors jeb bush of

florida and mike huckabee of arkansas are the first ones to grab a leg. jeb bush resigned from his corporate and non-profit boards as he explores a presidential campaign. over this week, the evangelicals received good news when mike huckabee announced he was leaving his show on fox news to explore a second presidential bid. here he is. >> the honorable thing to do at this point is to end my tenure here at fox. now, as much as i've loved doing the show i cannot bring myself to rule out another presidential run. >> van gel cals are huckabee's most devoted supporters. he won the iowa caucus in 2008 launching him into a real race against john mccain. if huckabee runs and wins the nomination he's an ordained baptist minister. he doesn't have to pretend to

support the party platform. his staunch opposition to abortion make him the real deal family values conservative. joining me eugene robinson jackie kasen itch and david corn. enough introductions. >> time is up. >> i think huckabee is what hillary wants for lunch. because all the social issues where she has majority support, pro-choice same-sex marriage it will give her a reason to run that she wouldn't have otherwise. it's a fantastic reason to rup. this guy is going to try to roll back the clock. >> yeah, i think it would be great for her if he won the nomination. but let's remember that he lost in 2008. and it's a formidable -- >> is the party -- [ all speak at once ] >> is the party more liberal now

than it was back when he won? i think it's more conservative. >> but they have new conservatives too. there's new models. there's ted cruz other people to give your money to. huckabee's problem always was raising money and it's going to continue to be raising money. >> do you think he's a reasonable bet to be the nominee? i think he is. >> he won iowa but nothing else. >> the thing about huckabee too, the party is more conservative in a lot of ways. i'm not sure it's more social conservative than it was eight years ago. people like ted cruz he is a social conservative, but not because he is a social conservative. it's more of his tea party opposition to obama, obamacare, and the rest of that. so i think huckabee is really not moving with the tide at all. and if the party went for him -- >> who could beat him? assuming there are three, i think there are three legs to this stool. one is the establishment winning the big money, you tend to be

hawkish hawkish. then the tea party people who pretend to be libertarian. and the then the evangelicals, they want big government to protect their social values. >> so which corner of that stool is ted cruz? >> he's hard to figure. >> and marco rubio. i think you need more legs for the stool. >> we have to get a bigger stool. >> let's try it this way. [ all speak at once ] >> for whom is it bad news? it seems to me two people i think suffer if huckabee gets in whole hog. one is santorum who doesn't have justification for running. and ben carson the newbie. i don't know if he can still run if huckabee is in there. >> i would give the edge to ted cruz, but if huckabee gets in early and he has a few good moments he'll make it harder for ted cruz. >> easier to take than ted cruz. >> he is easier to take than ted cruz. but ted cruz would rather just have to worry about santorum. >> santorum who won iowa last

time, but he's a true believer. >> let me just say this. minimally, i think huckabee will have an impact if he runs. he had seven or eight victories when he ran. not just iowa. if he makes that platform mean something, these guys like mccain say, you bring up the platform issue with these guys and they say, i don't believe that. but huckabee will insist it is carried out. he's this right-wing conservative cultural thing of his. >> but here's the question. does winning the evangelical wing of the republican party mean more in 2016 than it meant in 2012 or in 2008? and i don't think it does. >> well i think iowa matters. you lose iowa to huckabee he's up there he's going to win in new hampshire of course. >> which is what last time he didn't do. he still ended up with 10 11% of the republican vote. it wasn't enough. he did okay in south carolina. but this field is going to be tremendous. and we'll have a couple

big-money candidates. if jeb bush is in there, rand paul will have a lot of money. >> rand paul has been courting evangelicals in iowa in particular. there have been people on the ground making in-roads while he's been doing other stuff. >> this sounds like a chaotic party. >> okay look half full half empty. there's a lot of ferment. there's a lot of stuff going on in the republican party. you can look at that both ways frankly. and i think democrats would be foolish to say it's just chaotic, it's a mess they'll never get anywhere. out of chaos sometimes comes creativity and energy. >> you sound like a modern business school. disruption is apparently a big part of it. >> does this party co-ales around a figure with any sort of fervor. >> it's going to be a square to circle because somebody is going to have to believe in all the cultural values being

right-wing on foreign policy, good for business. anyway, the round stable is staying with us. up next, espn's stuart scott bridged the gap between sports and politics. it's a sad story. he just passed away of cancer. this is "hardball," the place for politics. unique set of nutrients. that's why there's ocuvite to help protect your eye health. as you age your eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is a vitamin made just for your eyes from the eye care experts at bausch + lomb. ocuvite has a unique formula that's just not found in any leading multivitamin. your eyes are unique so help protect your eye health with ocuvite. why do i cook? because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. because i make the best chicken noodle soup. for every way you make chicken noodle soup, make it delicious with swanson®. in the internet of things, every device can be connected, to your

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nearly a third of all committee chairs in the next house of representative come from one state. texas. six of the 21 chairmans will be from the lone star state, the most from any one state since 1979. and we'll be right back. no matter who you are, if you have type 2 diabetes, you know it can be a struggle to keep your a1c down. so imagine ... what if there was a new class of medicine that works differently to lower blood sugar? imagine loving your numbers. introducing once-daily invokana®. it's the first of a new kind of prescription medicine that's used along with diet and exercise to lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. invokana® is a once-daily pill that works around

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so live. live. fight like hell. and when you get too tired to fight, then lay down and rest fight, lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. >> remembering >> they're going to be remembering that for a long time. stuart scott, the legendary espn sports anchor inspired so many who battled cancer. of course he died yesterday at the age of 49 after fighting the disease since 2007, seven years. on one occasion, he bridged the gap between sports and politics. he interviewed bill clinton, played sports with president obama during the 2008 campaign. he showed us the human side of politics. we got a glimpse of something extremely rare. we got to see our future

commander in chief clad in sweats and sweating. >> if your vice presidential candidate had to be an athlete, who would you pick? >> i'll tell you what. i'm a chicago guy, so i'm thinking waultthink ing walter peyton. that guy had durability he could block as well as run. michael. he doesn't lose. and, you know since i haven't won the presidency yet, you know, that wouldn't be a bad teammate to have. i'd just keep on feeding him. i'd figure he head hit the last shot.

>> what do you make of that? something else. >> you know, he not only -- we can talk about -- talking about sports really humanizes politicians. but he humanized sports casting. i meaning,, he talked about it in a way that everybody talks about sportsment ss. i grew up watching him and i remember seeing him for the first time covering a football team. and it was incredible. so you know i'm just saying, that he really -- it was so cool to see him. he was this icon. he was so positive. >> there are very few sports casters, i think, if you look through the history of sports casting, but a lot of them are great but few stand out doing something different. howard cossel stuart scott, they also braughtought their own style in. and, in doing so, they changed their relationship between the sports casters, the fans and the players.

he was you know, he was marve marvelous in that way. and without the ego of cossel and the problems of mark albert. he was just that great. >> we had some great writers. >> we had bodies on espn now. but, you know the sports center and espn. they're always there, you know. and he's always coming into our living rooms and into our bedrooms. and he's such a sort of constant presence there. you get used to that. and you develop a relationship with the sports caster, as david said. >> there's the kind of guys over the years that become very close to you. this guy, too. anyway, thank you for talking ant it. when we return let me finish with a tribute to a liberal icon three-term new york governor mario cuomo, one of my heroes.

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let me finish tonight with an extraordinary moment in democratic history. the year 1984, ronald reagan is president. the republican hold on the white house appears impregnable. and, yet, on the night of july 16th in the musconi center in san francisco, new york governor mario cuomo takes to the podium and makes a truly powerful statement. >> maybe, mr. president, if you

visited some more police stations places, maybe if you went to appalachia where people still live in sheds, maybe if you went to lackawana where unem unemployed steel workers wonder why we subsidize foreign steel. maybe, mr. president, if you stop in at a shelter in chicago and spoke to the homeless there, maybe, mr. president, if you asked a woman who had been denied the help she needed to feed her children because you said you needed the money for a tax break for a millionaire or for a missile we couldn't afford to use -- [ cheers and applause ] >> what set that night apart was the clarity of his message. it wasn't a nuance of differences that distinguishes, but something central in the human experience. a difference of commitment.

his party, the democrats stood for the vulnerable, those excluded from the victory circle. it didn't win an election, of course, but it served a great purpose that night. people need to know why they elect one party over another. in big cities like new york that purpose is what gives a party its mission. in big countries like ours it gives meaning to the voters' decision. are you for the republican approach or the democratic activist government. of course not all liberals act as they speak or treat other people in a way that squares with their politics. we're all too familiar with the big liberal who may be too snootty to act toward people who he says mankind should behave. i remember the night i was assigned to deliver a speech for mare owe cuomo. i got a call at home. it was cuomo himself, i think i got it together, he said.

very few people write their own speechers, even fewer call up the people who were assigned to write it and say i got it. >> tonight, on "all in"." as much as i have loved doing the show, i cannot bring myself to rule out another presidential run. >> chris christie gets flagged for a holding in dallas. as the 2016 scramble begins in earnest, there's one headline today that can do any republican. plus, the mayor of new york makes a stunning announcement as the n.y.p.d. continues to turn its back. then, hollywood history repeets itself. >> you've got one big i shall shoe, i've got 101. >> the real reason the movie industry is attacking selma. and, as louis gomer prepares to