unfolding as we speak, about to turn 11:00 a.m. in the french countryside, roughly 25 miles outside of paris. northeast is where this has been going sources reporting shots have been fired, that two people are dead. nbc news has not been able to confirm that yet. however, the french brothers suspected of carrying out this paris terror attack on charlie are believed to be in the small town, hold up potentially with a hostage. right now, a major operation is under way to detain cherif kouachi and said kouachi. two people stole a car and appeared to have taken one hostage. there is a school on lockdown. again, it's just 11:00 a.m. in france. france's interior minister is almost certain the men are the kouachi brothers, the men they are searching for. this is happening in

dammartin-en-goele. that's a small industrial town near charles de gaulle airport. as betty was pointing out, that's just 25 miles northeast of paris. and this school that i was pointing out, kids filled inside, is on lockdown as a precautionary measure. the search for the brothers this is taking place in the air and on the ground and has consumed french authorities. a french security convoy and helicopters, they're all part of this operation, and officials believe the men are heavily armed and extremely dangerous. a homeland security official confirms to nbc that both men were on the u.s. terrorism database watch list as well as the no-fly list for years. one mistake led investigators immediately to focus on them. said kouachi left his i.d. in the abandoned getaway vehicle. two u.s. counterterrorism officials say that he traveled to yemen in 2011 to be trained by al qaeda. and witnesses say the attackers pledged allegiance to the group during the massacre. joining me right now is nbc law

enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh. jim, i know you've been talking with betty throughout the morning about this. again, this has consumed french security forces the elite security forces, nearly 90,000 of them have been on the hunt for these two brothers. do you think that we have finally seen an area where they are cornered and that we might have an opportunity where they'll be apprehended? >> right, thomas exactly. you're right on point. you know when you're commanding something like this, trying to find these guys you're climbing a big mountain too. you know if you started the charlie hedbo attack from the police command perspective, you have a huge mountain to climb, because you're trying to find out who the guys are. when they leave their i.d. in the car, you've gotten to the top of one mountaintop. you really have. that's a big thing, because you know, you could still be in the position in france where you don't know who these killers are. so, that was a huge break. and then they're rampaging across northern france. are they going to belgium, germany, where are they going? well, they probably looped back

to paris because that's where they're from that's their base of operations that's where their comfort zone is and that could be either to try to escape or to go out as martyrs, but they did loop back. criminals do it so many times, they go back to their own area because that's where they're familiar. and so that's what they likely did. what their plan was, probably some grandiose thing. could they have been headed toward the airport? sure. i mean these guys have grandiose ideas that they're going to be able to you know hijack an airplane and go to yemen or something. so, don't think they won't think that, because they don't think rationally in a time like this anyway. >> certainly now, jim, they put the international community on high alert for over 48 hours now since the charlie hedbo attack has gripped the international community and certainly sent france's domestic community into panic and mourning on this. i want to talk and bring in by phone nbc news's chief global

correspondent bill neely who i believe is en route in a car to the hostage standoff in this parisian town this small, industrial town 25 miles northeast of paris. so, bill explain what you know about this town the population and what more you've heard about the potential that we have confirmation of the brothers being there. >> reporter: well this is an area just to the north about 25 miles north of paris. it's centered on an industrial area. this is a smalltown village community. it's a small business where the two -- >> unfortunately, we lost our bill neely who was en route. he's traveling right will. we're going to work to get that connection back. again, as he was explaining this is a small industrial town that is just beyond paris by about 25 miles. our jim cavanaugh is still with me. so, jim, i'm going to jump back in with you while we wait to get bill back on the telephone. again, he is en route. but the demonstration that we're

seeing of force going into this small village, the town obviously, and most anyone inside and in and around france is aware of the situation and on high alert for these brothers. so when they see the military and the police operation that is taking place there, the mind-set of these brothers explain that especially if we know that the older brother, said has had training with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. >> right. well, the mind-set right now is going to get right back to what all humans' mind-set would be in this situation. that is, they're exhausted. they've been nonstop going for, you know 48 hours, thomas as you've described. >> right. >> these guys are exhausted. and you know to be a fugitive from all the french police for this long after that horrific event, i mean this is an extremely fatiguing activity.

so, from a human standpoint they're exhausted. now, reportedly, they're holding one or more people hostage in some static position. it may be in a factory or a building or an office or a home or a vehicle. so, that's static. now, the police numbers now should give everybody there a good feeling, because basically, all those police are going to be pushed back and holeding perimeters and making sure everybody's safe. these two guys will be static and the tactical operation will begin. the onscene commander will direct that. we practice this in the police service, we live it. tactical teams know what to do. these guys hold unusual positions, though. and that is if they have rocket-propelled grenades. so that's a real unusual position in a barricade hostage situation. so it could be a very different way it develops if they still have those rocket-propelled grenades. likely

likely, think the kalashnikovs, but we'll see how that develops. >> again right now we're showing on the screen -- and if we could go back to that guys just to show the two brothers. because on the left is cherif the younger brother, said the older brother on the right, who is the one who is reported to have that weapons training in yemen from 2011. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. and jim, yemen has been such a hotspot for american military security forces ever since the "uss cole" bombing, well before 9/11. and it doesn't seem as if we've been able to get a grasp on exactly the training terror ground it really is. >> no that's right. it's been such a disruptive place for our forces to try to do anything. there's been some successes, thomas. as you know we killed anwar al awlaki who was an american-born -- >> correct. >> -- phony cleric there, in a drone attack. >> that was in 2011 i believe. >> that's right. and he was the international

inspire-recruiter for these guys certainly in the west because he spoke such fluent english, he was an american. so he was recruiting guys. he was responsible for recruiting major nidal hasan at the ft. hood attack and others. so you know our intelligence people and our military operators took him out, which was a leader trying to kill americans. so, this guy might have got to him, might have tried to make contact with him, might have received some training one of the brothers over there. and now they've played it out, but this is their end game now. it's going to be the end for these guys. the key for the police though is there's no doubt you're going to win the battle. can you save the life of the hostage? this is the key thing weighing on the commanders. we've got to see what we can do to save that life or lives that they're holding. >> this has gripped the international community, and certainly, this has played out on domestic french television as well. there have been french sources reporting that during a shoot-out that has happened in

this small village that two people might be dead a hostage might be taken by these brothers. currently just past 11:00 a.m. there in france in dammartin-en-goele. this is the small industrial town just about 25 miles northeast of paris. and we're just getting confirmed reports from the ap that charles de gaulle airport has closed two runways to arrivals amid this massive operation. so earlier, there had been some discussion -- i know you were talking with our betty nguyen about that about whether or not there were some because of the proximity of these brothers to charles de gaulle the major airports for paris and the interruption that this could cause to air flow traffic. we do have two runways closed down. our bill neely is back on the phone right now. he is nbc news's chief global correspondent traveling by car to this industrial town. bill, tell us more about the population and what more you know and what you've been able that is reportable at this point. >> reporter: yeah, so, it's a fairly small town as you say,

25 miles northeast of paris. there is an industrial area at the edge of town and that is where this is all taking place, but it is also -- [ inaudible ] a few minutes ago i heard one of the pupils from that high school speaking by phone and saying that 900 pupils were in lockdown in that high school and that the teachers were trying to calm them down but they were all terrified, because they had heard reports that two people had been killed. >> again, we've lost our bill neely, who is in route there. he was talking, again, about these initial reports that nbc has not been able to confirm as of yet, that there might be two deaths in relation to a shoot-out that happened earlier today with the kouachi brothers in this small town. bill's phone has gone out. we're going to work to get him back, but i want to bring in nbc news correspondent ron allen, who joins me now live from paris. ron, i want to talk about what

we have now live confirmed from the ap as well as something from our own nbc news desk about the fact that charles de gaulle airport has closed two runways. one thing we do know from the airport spokesman telling nbc news departures take off from the west. they're unaffected. so, they're still using the northern runways. however, arrivals, which land from the east potentially over dammartin-en-goele, have been restricted to the southern pair of runways, which are further from the town. since you have been in france talk about how the coverage of this has gripped the french people and what the coverage has been like because for this small town they would be highly alert and aware that the brothers were on the loose, correct? >> reporter: of course thomas. the entire nation has been on alert, on high alert now for the past several days as a result of this, this attack on this small

magazine. it has been seen as an attack on the values of this nation the very essence of this nation -- freedom, liberty freedom of expression freedom of the press. there have been in this square where i'm standing now, this plaza, huge outpourings of support for the families of the victims, solidarity. there were thousands of people here last night again. so, yes, everyone is very mindful of all this. and i can also say that i think a lot of people are very angry about all this. terrorism is nothing new to this country. france has perhaps more young men who are aligned with these jihadi movements than any other country in the world except for some of the north african countries like tunisia or morocco, for example. there's been a steady flow of people going from here back and forth to populationslaces like syria and iraq. and these two brothers know have been long on the radar for french authorities, under surveillance for their activities. and the younger brother, we know, has been convicted of terrorism charges in the past

and been on the radar for as long as ten years. so, everyone is well aware of this problem, and everyone here now is well aware of these individuals. there are pictures that have been circulated widely everywhere, and especially on social media. remember, not long after the attack, the identification card of one of the brothers was found in one of the getaway cars. and so police have been on to them for some time. they've questioned their parents, they've raided their homes, they've no doubt talked to people throughout the community where they live. there have been any number of people who have been arrested detained in connection with all this. so, it just seems to be a matter of time before the authorities can zero in on these two and arrest them or apprehend them or capture or dare we say, kill them. but again, this is a very dicey hostage situation that we believe is now under way. >> correct. >> reporter: we don't know how

many people there are being held, but of course authorities are going to approach this very cautiously because these two individuals are armed, extremely dangerous, and presumably now, desperate. >> ron, let me ask you to stand by and i'm going to reset for everybody. if you are just joining us, we are in breaking news coverage right now as security forces and police forces have taken over a small town just northeast of paris, dammartin-en-goele. they believe that the co-yachikouachi brothers are there and may have taken a hostage. unconfirmed reports by nbc news there are french domestic agencies that have discussed the fact that there may have been two people killed in a shoot-out earlier. it is just after 11:00 a.m. in france right now, over 48 hours, i think nearly going on 52 hours, since the original attack on charlie hedbo happened where 12 people satirists working at this magazine journalists, cartoonists were gunned down and killed others injured there. there we see the two brothers that the police have been on the

lookout for ever since one of the brothers cherif who is the younger of the two, served 18 months for terrorism charges. the older brother, said is believed to have traveled to yemen in 2011 to receive weapons training from al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. there is a small school in this area this village of dammartin-en-goele, that is currently under lockdown right now. and this is a rapidly unfolding situation. joining me on the phone is foreign affairs correspondent and retired senior british officer mikey kay. mikey, let's talk about this and the strategy of the geography as you're looking at this from a military mind-set of what the brothers might have been doing and how they have positioned themselves in dammartin-en-goele. is there anything that stands out to you? >> reporter: good morning, thomas. yeah i think the first thing is the location which is approximately 30 miles northeast of paris. and if you go beyond

dammartin-en-goele, it's by b another 65 miles and you're sort of pitting the eastern border of france. that's where you're looking at germany, that's where you're looking at belgium. as we've spoken about, thomas over the last 48 hours, the accessibility of europe is very good it's easy for people to transverse the continent fairly easily. you don't need passports. there are no immigration checks. >> correct. >> like you'd see coming into america or going into the uk. so, in terms of trafficking weapons, trafficking finance, trafficking people that's something which is relatively easy to do. now, during my military training i was trained in escape and evasion. and some of the two key pillars of escape and evasion were you travel by night, you lock down by day, and you look to put as much distance in between the last known location that the enemy knew and where you need to get to.

now, we have all spoken at large about how premeditated the attack was. it's been catologued quite heavily just how well trained the kouachi brothers were. we mentioned that cherif has already been in prison for terrorism, charges by the french authorities in 2008. and we now know that said kouachi, who is the older brother, 34 actually had links with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula in yemen. so, we know that they on the one hand are relatively well trained and have had operational experience, potentially, but at the same time we also have reports yesterday that two men held up a gas station in broad daylight which is something that isn't particularly clever if you're trying to remain covert and you're trying to avoid the authorities. one thing, thomas i'd like to say, though is there's been a lot of reporting about charles de gaulle. charles de gaulle is 5 miles away from the location of dammartin-en-goele, and we're talking about one of the runways

being closed. what i'd like to point out is that the likely situation is not because there's a direct threat from the kouachi brothers on passengers and aircraft but it's more likely because during a dynamic situation like this the authorities will be reliant, heavily reliant, on air support. what i mean by that is there will be helicopters in the overhead with various cameras. >> yes. >> the cameras will be looking for what we call runners. i used to do this in baghdad all at time. we would go in and hit a target and when we were going in and hitting that target, i was part of the air support package that would look for the target to run, go dynamic. so, when the target knows that they're on to and they will try and escape. so the runways being closed because of the air support. >> mikey, let me ask you to stand by. you're absolutely right about that two runways have been closed, so that means the air space is free over this industrial town. bill neely joins us back by phone. we've had trouble with your cell phone. i know you're rapidly going to this town but you have something for us. bill, go ahead.

>> reporter: yes. the situation in the town itself seemed pretty clear that these two gunmen are totally surrounded by hundreds of heavily armed french antiterrorist police and s.w.a.t. teams. it does seem that negotiations have begun. there is certainly a hostage negotiator there and contact has been made. and within the last few minutes, there was a remark from the deputy mayor, saying that the men have indicated that they want to die as martyrs. now, i suppose that is not surprising. they went on a mission initially to a newspaper office in the center of paris, heavily armed. they were wearing bullet-proof jackets, but i think they knew what they were up to and knew that this was an attack from h they might not survive. and they are now completely surrounded in this.

for miles around there are hundreds of police officers there are helicopters in the air. so, they have expressed a wish, apparently according to the deputy mayor, to die as martyrs. >> all right, so bill let me just confirm again for anybody that may have had trouble. you're saying that the deputy mayor of dammartin-en-goele is saying to you that contact has been made with the brothers. so we're confirming that it is the kouachi brothers and that they want to die as martyrs, correct? >> reporter: that is correct. there was a hostage negotiator brought into the area shortly after the initial shoot-out happened at around 8:30 this morning. and we have heard about an hour ago that contact had been made. and within the last hour the word came that negotiations had begun. as you say, the deputy mayor is now saying that the men have indicated that they are prepared to die. now, obviously, it's also been

confirmed that there is one hostage. you know the question is and the priority is what about his safety. >> and bill can we confirm anything about the domestic reports about two deaths during the shoot-out that happened earlier today? >> reporter: no. initially, the paris prosecutors office had denied that there had been any fatalities as a result of the initial shoot-out. but obviously, the people in the local area -- there is somehow, this report has gained traction. there was a young student at a high school, dammartin high school. 900 people there are in lockdown, and she said that people there children there were terrified by a report that there had been two dead and 20 injured. but that casualty figure has not been confirmed by french authorities. >> okay. and bill, how far away are you? you're right now en route to the

town. >> reporter: i've just passed the scene, or at least the closest that we can get to the scene because police have cordoned off all the roads leading to the scene. so, one of the areas that i'm at now, there are several dozen journalists. there are a lot of police cars with their blue lights flashing. there's no sign in the air at the minute that i can see of a police helicopter but it is a gray rainy, murky day, and we are probably still several hundred yards from the actual scene. and police have closed off all the roads. i'm just passing one road block now that police armed, cradling rifles there, simply taking no chances with any movement around here. >> bill how rural is this? explain the type of arteries the road arteries that you're on how close are any intersections? >> reporter: yeah so

yesterday, the events took place in a very rural area. so it was wooded hills. there were a lot, actually of world war underground storage facilities and there was a feeling that these two brothers might easily hide out, literally, under ground. the area where we're at the the moment is just on the outskirts of paris. there are, you know green fields but there is an industrial area. this is a sizable, small town dammartin. so, you know it is a popular area. and earlier this morning there was an appeal from french police for residents in this area to leave immediately. what i can tell you is that there are so many police at every road in and out of dammartin along the main highway that we're on at the moment. roads have been closed. so i think unlike yesterday, you could say that this area has

now been effectively sealed off, and the men, you know are in a building, and there is communication with them. so we have to assume that this is where the story one way or another will end. >> we're just now putting up some video to give people the scene periphery of what the images are coming out this morning of dammartin-en-goele this small, industrial town just 25 miles northeast of paris. our bill neely is on the telephone, who has been able to confirm with us. if you are just joining our breaking news coverage this morning, the kouachi brothers are in this small french town. they have been surrounded by antiterrorism police and the military and they have made contact through hostage negotiators. it has been confirmed they do have one hostage. we see the brothers there, cherif kouachi, who is the younger of the two, said on the right-hand side of your screen who is confirmed to have had weapons training in yemen in 2011 through al qaeda in the

arabian peninsula. again, bill let's talk about the contact, what you heard about the hostage negotiator making contact. how long ago was that? >> well a hostage negotiator had been on alert yesterday when it was thought that the men were in the town so i assume there was one or two. we don't know on call. you know the full resources of the french antiterrorist force has been called into play here not just armed men on the ground, but obviously, hostage negotiators would be part of that. there was a terrorist incident just before christmas in toulouse, where a suspect was surrounded and a hostage negotiator was brought there on

the scene. the man tried to escape by jumping off a balcony and was shot by the antiterrorist police. so it's a combination as in so many of these situations. we remember the boston marathon involving the siege of two brothers. at that point, u.s. s.w.a.t. teams around the world -- so hostage negotiators in the town around boston at that point. so you know the full bag of tricks, if you like that brought to bear on this. we understand that within the last hour contact was made. now, whether that's ongoing, whether the two brothers have an open line to negotiators, we don't know but i would doubt it if they say they are prepared to die, i don't think their priority is to be talking on the telephone to the french authorities for whom they have

shown so far contempt. >> and you were able to report from the deputy mayor that through that contact that they described their wish to die as martyrs. i'm sure the french and the international community certainly doesn't want to give these two brothers that wish and that they're brought to justice for the crimes that they've committed, the atrocities the murders that happened at charlie hebdo and the rest of the crimes that have happened over the last 52 hours, as it is roughly around 11:50 a.m. bill, i want to ask you, in what you've been able to learn about these brothers and what we've reported about their background and their training do you think at this point they've just been lucky, or do you think that their training that that has really paid off for them against french authorities? >> reporter: well all we've got to go off is the videos from the first day and what we know of

their, or at least said kouachi's visit to yemen. they looked like people who were very comfortable with weapons. they looked like people when they -- i suppose you would say that police officer on the ground who were very calm with the idea of killing. and obviously, they calmly went into the charlie hebdo offices and murdered everyone in front of them but were also prepared to spare the lives of some people in that office. so these are cool calm people perfectly prepared to kill. and it's what they say is true then perfectly prepared to die. they announced to people on the day of the attack that they were from al qaeda in yemen. and obviously, we know that you know al qaeda's people yearn for martyrhood. that is what they are prepared

to do when they go on their killing spree or their military operation. so these are people that the french antiterrorist squads will treat with the utmost caution. i don't think when a french policeman raises his gun if he sees these people that he's going to be shooting to injure or to get them down on the ground. i think at this point, the orders -- and i don't know this but i'm almost certain that the orders will be you know to shoot to kill these individuals. >> bill, stand by for me. i want to reset, if you're joining us right now. this is breaking news coverage here on "way too early," where we have been following this rapidly unfolding event live in the french countryside, just 25 miles northeast of paris, dammartin-en-goele, where authorities have confirmed they have surrounded the kouachi brothers after nearly 52 hours on the hunt for these brothers, who are behind the attacks at

charlie hebdo, the satirical news magazine in paris where 12 people were murdered in cold blood. the brothers have been in this small town for several hours now, where there was a shoot-out earlier today. the deputy mayor has confirmed that a hostage negotiator has been brought in because they do have one person held hostage. there were earlier reports that there may have been some deaths in the shoot-out. that has been unfounded, so we can pass that along from the deputy mayor. again, contact has been made through the antiterrorism police, who have surrounded the brothers in this small industrial town. our bill neely, who's been on the phone and is now currently in the periphery of the town outside of where they have gone on lockdown reports that there is a high school in the area where 900 students are on lockdown. there are other schools in the area that are on lockdown, too. again, it's just after 11:30 a.m. bill, let me ask you, as we put the map back up and geographically show folks