at charlie hebdo, the satirical news magazine in paris where 12 people were murdered in cold blood. the brothers have been in this small town for several hours now, where there was a shoot-out earlier today. the deputy mayor has confirmed that a hostage negotiator has been brought in because they do have one person held hostage. there were earlier reports that there may have been some deaths in the shoot-out. that has been unfounded, so we can pass that along from the deputy mayor. again, contact has been made through the antiterrorism police, who have surrounded the brothers in this small industrial town. our bill neely, who's been on the phone and is now currently in the periphery of the town outside of where they have gone on lockdown reports that there is a high school in the area where 900 students are on lockdown. there are other schools in the area that are on lockdown, too. again, it's just after 11:30 a.m. bill, let me ask you, as we put the map back up and geographically show folks

exactly where this is. again, 5 miles close to charles de gaulle airport, where we've had confirmation that they've closed down two runways for i believes. and mikey kay was talking about the fact that helicopters will need that air space, more so than they were worried about any type of acts against arriveing flights, but they want to close that down as a precaution to have open air space over this town. does it strike you that these brothers are trying to get to belgium more than to germany, because belgium seems to have a much more active profile for those that are attracted to operations with al qaeda or terrorist activity? bill, can you hear me? >> i can hear you. sorry, i wasn't sure that you were directing that question at me. i mean you know i don't think there was any -- there is any proof that they were trying to get to anywhere other than out

of paris. obviously, the longer that they spend in their two hijacked vehicles, you know the more detectable they would be and that's why yesterday they abandoned one of these cars near the town of long pond. so i don't think there was any evidence that they were trying to get to belgium or germany or anywhere else. just to update you on this idea that the two men have made some kind of statement. there is an mp for the local area called eve el baledo and he has also said the two fugitives have declared they wanted to die as martyrs. so that's the local mp eve el bollero, now sayinging as a result of what he's heard from the police that these two men are prepared to go down fighting. also we've had word from

caroline merlet who works in the mayor's office in the town and she has told the "le monde" newspaper that they are inside the area and everyone has been shut inside the mayor's building, and she said we like everyone else are following things online. there are difficulties in getting a mobile phone signal a cell phone service out of this area because i think the police probably are also monitoring cell phone traffic, which is why you've lost me a couple of times. we are now with the police and the military right beside the siege situation, and i can tell you there's just you know a sea of military and police uniforms here. everyone from police s.w.a.t. teams, special forces antiterrorist forces. you know it is military and police in the area is absolutely saturated. and i would say that you know

as i've said before that this is pretty much the end game for these men. and we are now being taken in under police escort into the main siege area. >> bill from military sources and french police sources that you've had any access to as you say that this could be the end game for these two brothers. is their goal to capture them alive, knowing that these men want to die as martyrs, or is it just going to be what the fates allow if the situation comes down to it that these men might need to be killed? >> reporter: i think, as in any hostage situation, the absolute first priority is to save the lives of the hostages or the single hostage, if there is indeed only one. that will be priority number one. priority number two, i think, would also be to save the lives of you know french police and

any of the military who are there. they don't want to end this with sort of multiple deaths of french police officers. you know priority number three might be to take these men alive and to put them through the due process of law. but i think at the end of all this they want to -- and you know the word in french is trulize. they want to neutralize these men. and if that means they have to be killed there is absolutely no question that french authorities are prepared to do that. they did it in another terrorist hostage situation just a few weeks ago in toulouse. >> absolutely the sparing of innocent lives is priority number one. we know that these brothers and all that have been involved with whatever the attack was that we have witnessed on charlie hebdo was murderous and demonstrated an absolute disregard for human

life. and so we know what these brothers are capable of. again, if you're just joining us we have confirmation that french military and antiterrorism police have surrounded the kouachi brothers inside the small industrial town of dammartin-en-goele. this is just 25 miles northeast of paris, france. it is just after 11:30 a.m. there in the french countryside, where helicopters, as we were seeing before are landing in fields. there have been two runways shut down for arrivals at charles de gaulle airport. that is in proximity roughly of about 5 miles. our mikey kay, we were talking to him about what this means. he was saying that the air space is much more necessary to the air operation of bringing in air support than fears that might to be those planes ariferiving because of any type of weapons that these brothers might have on them. bill neely is in the periphery and was being escorted in.

bill are you being still escorted in by the police? >> reporter: yes. we've just now got really about as far as we can possibly go. there are other media here as you can imagine. so i can see the industrial area in front of me. imagine any, you know any american industrial area. it's exactly the same sort of featureless, large buildings. the two men are inside the two brothers are inside a printing works. it's a small workshop in one of these buildings. there is a sound of sirens. as i said the place is saturated with blue and green uniforms of every kind of french antiterrorist squad you can imagine imagine. so, that's the scene. as i'm looking up, i can't see any sign of helicopters.

perhaps they're simply not needed anymore because they've got eyes on every side of this building, and therefore, don't need an aerial view. the helicopters were being used yesterday and even overnight with night vision equipment being used from one helicopter that we could see hovering overhead. and there was a report that they were trying use thermal imaging equipment because these men, it wasn't known exactly where in the countryside they were. but it seems the helicopters are not being used now. we're about 5 miles from charles de gaulle airport, one of the two main airports in paris. half of the runways -- so there two twin runways at charles de gaulle. one of the twin runways has been closed down. two air france planes which were coming in to land were actually diverted away from the airport. that was earlier this morning when there was the initial shooting incident. so, the authorities thought it best, first of all, to close down the airport because of

gunfire, also probably because there were so many helicopters in the air. and of course there were reports that one of these men had some kind of rocket-propelled grenade. and i think there was also possibly a fear that they might use that to attack a plane. but i think their situation now is much more imminently focused on the large numbers of french anti-terror police that are surrounding them. i don't think they've got an airport or an aircraft in their sights. i think it's a question now of their survival and of the survival of the single hostage that we believe they have with them. >> bill, let's talk about the access to weapons, as you talk about what was suspected. what was confirmed that we know the brothers have access to? >> reporter: well i think what everyone is going on again, is the initial video, which clearly showed them cradling at least

one kalashnikov ak-47 rifle. there was unconfirmed that the second weapon was a pump-action shotgun. witnesses have described other weapons in the back of one of the cars and this is how word of this rocket-propelled grenade began to circulate. there was also a report that they had islamist flags or paraphernalia in the car. i mean i suppose the big question is you know what ammunition do they have left? they abandoned two cars in the course of their getaway. what we don't know and what i suppose police don't know either is how much ammunition they have left how long can they keep up this siege you know how many police could they take out in a potential shoot-out. that we just don't know. >> bill i'm going to let you go for a couple of minutes, because

i know you're eager to talk with people on the scene there. and so, i want to let you go get fresh, reportable information, as you've just arrived inside through police escort there in dammartin-en-goele. bill, thank you for your information. again, if you're just joining us, our bill neely on the phone arriving in this small, french countryside town where the kouachi brothers have been cornered by the antiterrorism police. there has been contact made with the brothers confirmation of one hostage, and the brothers have told the hostage negotiator -- and this has been confirmed through the mp of this town as well as through the deputy mayor -- that they want to die as martyrs. these are the brothers that we have seen through the videos that have played out involving the charlie hedbo attack the kouachi brothers cherif and said. 12 people died in that attack that happened nearly 52 hours ago. joining us now former defense department official and nbc news

terrorism analyst michael sheehan. you're watching all of this play out. obviously, as we were hearing from bill neely there, the priorities of the french military and antiterrorism operation that's taking place right now to save the lives of the innocent. obviously, these brothers have demonstrated their regard for human life or lack thereof. but you would hope that they would not get their wish to die as martyrs. >> that's right. clearly, the french would like to capture these people alive and try to get the full story. obviously, they've got the evidence to convict them all on tape. but really they want to capture them to see if there are other members of the cell, where their connections are to roll up other people. so, it's very much in their interests to capture these people alive. but it doesn't look like that's going to happen if they're committed to go down as martyrs. but you never know. a lot of people a lot of these so-called martyrs will chicken out at end, and hopefully, they'll be able to capture them alive. >> michael, how does this bring

us back to where we have long suspected it to be a hotbed of terrorism, that we have confirmation that said kouachi received terrorism training in yemen in 2011 through al qaeda in the arabian peninsula? again, i remind everybody that the "uss cole" bombing happened in the port of yemen well before 9/11, in 2000. and we've known about what that country means. >> yeah certainly. i've been to yemen with the department of defense. it's been a hotbed for many many years. as you mentioned, the bombing of the "cole" the year before 9/11 in october of 2000. but even there have been many incidents there. the u.s. military has been there assisting yemenis. we've had many also drone attacks in yemen attacking al qaeda. al qaeda their operational arm has shifted from pakistan to yemen. that is the front line of al qaeda's operational activity right now. it's also the front line of their propaganda activity with

"inspire" magazine, which has apparently been directly involved in inspiring these two characters to attack charlie, and specifically, the editor there. so, the yemeni connection is very strong it's very important, it's a hotbed of al qaeda activity. >> so how do you think that from a national security standpoint of protecting the homeland we should re-evaluate specifically what we're doing in targeting the activity that's taking place in yemen and what these brothers and the coverage what they've been able to do is now going to provide for those that are inspired by it? >> yeah i can assure you that the department of defense, the cia and others are very much focused on yemen, have been for quite a while. about two years ago, al qaeda was back very strong in yemen, had taken over large areas of control in central yemen. and we upped our operations there, upped our predator attacks against al qaeda's leadership in yemen, increased

our training and assistance to the yemeni forces that are pushing back up against al qaeda there. but they've got their hands full in yemen. and i think that this is going to increase our focus there to try to again, push back on al qaeda's presence there and continue to put pressure on them shlg because if they're not under pressure they're going to be able to train more of these types of people and launch them into the west to conduct terrorist operations. so it's a huge concern for the department of defense and the cia and our partners in the region to put pressure on al qaeda in yemen, as that is a forward operating base for al qaeda in the world today. >> michael, what does your gut tell you about what the -- i guess the background is for these brothers whether this is something directly connected and linked to al qaeda or something more, described as a lone wolf situation, as we have recently with the sydney siege? >> yeah this is very different than the sydney scene in australia, where you have a lone wolf going into a random coffee

shop and shooting the place up. this is very different. these people knew what they were doing. they have had connections, training by al qaeda. they targeted specifically a news organization a much more strategic attack by them. they have the training, they have the weapons. this is a very different situation, and that's why i think the french are very much interested in capturing these guys alive, to find out what the networks are so they can prevent other actions like this in the future. >> you make a great point there, when we compare and contrast the big differences here. michael, i'll ask you to stand by and i'll bring back to our coverage nbc news correspondent ron allen, who joins us live from paris. ron, speaking with our colleague, bill neely, who's now in this small french countryside town, he talks about the periphery and being on lockdown but the confirmation that this is the brothers that the antiterrorism police have been looking for, but the deputy mayor saying that through the hostage negotiator that they want to die as martyrs. have you been able to speak with anybody that you know the

reaction of anybody there, hearing that? because i would imagine there are people that want to see these brothers brought to justice and others that would rather see them extinguished. >> reporter: yes, and i imagine if you took a poll you'd probably find a lot of opinion on those issues. there's a lot of anger here thomas, i can tell you that. there's a lot of people who feel that this is an attack on this country. the president, francois hollande, has been speaking this morning, and he has said as much. he has said that the country's in shock. he's called this a test for the authorities. he has said that this was an attack on freedom of expression as others have during the past couple of days since this happened. i think people really want this to be over but i think that also, people here understand that this is something that is part of the society here. these individuals, it's no surprise that this happened to some extent because it's been long known that there are jihadists here who sympathize

with groups in syria and iraq and elsewhere around the world who want to attack and kill westerners. so i think people understand that, but they are still angry. there is a lot of tension here. there is a lot of anxiety, because it was unclear when there would be another attack. you'll recall there was an attack yesterday morning that killed a policewoman. so, and that suspect is still at large as well. so, there's still a lot of concern about what might happen next but i think relief certainly, and a feeling of satisfaction to some extent that these two individuals have apparently been cornered. and yes, i think a lot of people would want to see them dead. some people would also want to see them brought to justice. and i think a lot of people just want this to be over with. >> and ron, police investigators, they've been able to separate the kouachi brothers from the attack and the death of the policewoman, correct? >> reporter: yes. the police have said that those were two separate incidents. it's unclear what the motivation was of the alleged attacker.

it's unclear whether that was someone who was a copycat incident or whether it was something else. it appeared to be something that was not planned. apparently there was an accident. a police officer and others were responding to the accident scene, and an individual heavily armed, or armed, approached the police officer and killed this woman, allegedly. now, it's unclear whether the individual, the suspect was involved in the accident or a bystander, but we believe he had an automatic weapon as well as a handgun. so, again, will more of that happen? that's, of course everyone's big concern and fear here. and that suspect is still at large as far as we understand. but again, the feeling here i think that's been one of anxiety. there's a heavy police presence around town. there has been and there will continue to be i would imagine until police are able to resolve all of these situations completely. >> understandably, it has

gripped our attention. ron allen, we're going to let you get back out to get more reportable information for us there in paris. and joining me now on set is our ayman mohyeldin. we've been watching very fluidly the events over the last hour unfold. it's just before noontime in france right now. we know that there are schools on lockdown. this industrial village town of dammartin-en-goele on lockdown where people have been told to stay inside. our bill neely is on site. and he's talking about the periphery of the town how they have encapsulated it with this military antiterrorism presence but it seems as if the brothers on this roll of carnage over 52 hours have not had much of an operational plan? >> yeah, i mean listen there's two parts to this. one is and i was watching this video yesterday, the one with the original shooting at the magazine with a former fbi special agent, and one of the issues that he was pointing out was that these men were wearing masks, they had an escape plan. so, they wanted to get away.

they may have been prepared for a last stand. they had a lot of magazines with them. they certainly carried a lot of ammunition for the initial attack. but certainly there was an element of this that they wanted to get away. so, when they now have escaped, gone on this, you know, manhunt, leading authorities on this manhunt across the country, there is now this element of concern about that last stand. what kind of weapons do they have, if they have any weapons? there are reports that they may have been taking some people hostage. i think that's going to be a major cause of concern for the authorities. these people have already made a statement with their killings. they know that the world's media will all be focused on this one point. this is a massive platform and i think all these calculations are being taken by authorities as they decide the next steps. obviously, they want to try to end this peacefully without any more loss of innocent lives, but there is definitely growing concern that these individuals, if they are, in fact the people behind the original attack we know they kill we know they want to make a statement, and the stage is now set for them in this place. >> you make a great point about

the machinations that go into this, certainly the planning into the attack at charlie hebdo and the getaway they were able to achieve. but as we look into the background of the kouachi brothers, we have now confirmed that they are in this small town, that they do have one hostage, but cherif that is seen on the left, the younger, was jailed for 18 months on terrorism charges. said kouachi is confirmed to have traveled to yemen in 2011 for training with al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. so we know they have deep ties and are inspired to do this radical work. >> yeah, and we know that because of that background because of their travel to some of these places they are a little bit battle-hardened, particularly if you go to the battlefields, yemen or elsewhere, the fact that they are accused of sending fighters are in jail for sending fighters to iraq. these guys have an operational sense. they're not just walking into this thinking what are we going to do. >> right. >> they probably have a desire and that's the most critical

thing, a desire to make a statement with every action they're doing. and that is really the hardest part for the authorities, is when you have somebody on the other side who is preparing to make a statement with their actions, whether it be the gruesome killing of innocent people or taking hostages you're in a very difficult situation. >> well, and the biggest statement they've confirmed through the hostage negotiator is that they want to die as martyrs. and if we trace back just 15 years ago to when the "uss cole coalcole" bombing happened in yemen, i think for most people that sparked the interest of what was taking place in yemen, as we had michael sheehan on before talking about that being a hotbed of terrorist activity for al qaeda. do you think that this is going to draw our attention back to that country again, to go back in and try to extinguish what's taking place there? >> the united states has been involved in yemen for several years. there have been continuous drone strikes in yemen. yemen has been very much on the radar of the united states from a national security perspective for several years. i mean, they believe that some

of the most elaborate plans to try to attack the united states that's where anwar al awlaki who was an american citizen, was killed in a drone strike. so, by no means that's yemen fallen off the radar for the united states. the challenge for the united states is to anticipate where these types of hotspots are, where these individuals have gotten training. the problem isn't with the yemeni government or the yemeni authorities. certainly, they have their own problems, but in a case like this yemen was a battlefield where these guys went or at least tried to go to receive that training. but it's one of many battlefields. the situation in mali's another situation, iraq, syria, afghanistan. for the united states, for its allies, there are so many raging battlefields that are producing these types of individuals that it's becoming increasingly difficult for the united states and its allies to anticipate. >> from looking at the work that these brothers have made of the french countryside and where they have gone does it look as if they're trying get back to paris or they're just trying

to -- they're just making as much hay and carnage as they can as they tear through? >> it's really difficult to answer that unless you have a sense of what their plan was. but what they are definitely trying to do is go on a terror campaign. and that terror campaign as we saw beginning, if in fact these individuals were the ones and again, we have to emphasize that, but authorities do believe that they were. but what makes it very dangerous is the fact that they have gone on a campaign now that has spanned the entire northern part of france. i mean they've gone from paris to other cities and now in this particular town. it really highlights the fear. now, obviously, the french society, the french public are trying to put on the face of we are not afraid. but when you have people like this on the loose, we don't know what kind of weapons they're carrying, we don't know what kind of ammunitions they have besides any rifles or if they have any type of explosives. i think all of these factors really make it for a very dangerous situation. >> okay. >> a lot of fear. >> ayman, stand by. i want to reset for everybody. if you're just tuning in we have been following throughout this last hour the fluid and unfolding events that have been

happening in dammartin-en-goele. this is a small industrial town just 25 miles northeast of paris where we have confirmation that anti antiterrorism police have cornered the kouachi brothers. this is the pair that the police have been on the search for since the charlie hebdo attack that killed 12 people cartoonists and journalists inside the magazine offices there in paris. there we see cherif and said. we do have confirmation that they have one hostage. there were earlier reports from a shoot-out that happened this morning there in this small town that there may have been some fatalities. that is unconfirmed. there are no reported fatalities. there are schools in this small town on lockdown as we're just getting to the noontime hour in france. but again, there has been a connection made to the brothers through hostage negotiators. our bill neely, who is on the scene and inside the cordoned off small town gave a description of what type of

building they are in. he said they were inside a small printing style-type building a pressing press building where they were able to take one person hostage. and again, they have had contact through a hostage negotiator. the deputy mayor of the town was able to relay information that these brothers want to go out and die as martyrs. our ayman mohyeldin is here on set. this is something i don't think, you know a statement like that is going to surprise many people, because that seems to be their end game. but at this point, is that what french military police want to do? i mean do they want to bring these guys to justice in front of the french people? >> listen, i think at the end of the day, there is going to be a lot of calculations taking place right now. i can't speak on behalf of french authorities. i can tell you with certainty, they want to end this as quickly

as possible and by this i don't mean necessarily this standoff or this operation, but this overall situation. the country has been gripped now for a few days 52 hours or so by this terror ram pagepage. they need to end that quickly. they need to calculate the risks and benefits of ending this safely. can they release the hostage? do they know anything about him? do they know what kinds of weapons they have? once they make that assessment, they can decide. the other thing they can do is wait it out. if it's two individuals and a hostage, time is not on the side of the hostagetakers. they simply can't hold out forever. and they can't also allow the hostage-takers to dictate. they can't allow these guys to dictate the pace of what happens next in this standoff. >> okay. ayman, thank you, sir. i'm going to let you go and just recap for people what we know currently. again, this rapidly unfolding situation that we've been following here through the early-morning hour right now in dammartin-en-goele. the fact that military and antiterrorism police have been able to corner the kouachi

brothers. these are the brothers that police have been on the hunt for ever since the charlie hebdo attack that killed 12 people and injured many others. this has been 52 hours, a manhunt in the making where now military officials say in they have been able to corner these brothers. we do have confirmation that there is one hostage. hostage negotiators have made contact with the brothers. our bill neely is in town and says that the town is totally surrounded. people there have been instructed to stay inside their homes and local schools, because kids had already gone on to school, where it's just about noon. they are in a lockdown situation, but the brothers have conveyed that they do want to die as martyrs. again, this is a rapidly unfolding situation. we have everyone assembled for "morning joe" with joe and mika standing by so i'm going to ask you to stay with us and we're going to get right to them in just a second right here on msnbc. mika, thanks. >> thomas, thank you.

we're going to get right to the breaking news that is unfolding in the manhunt for the french brothers suspected of carrying out the paris terror attack. at this very moment a massive operation is under way near is under way near paris, a town outside of paris to capture said and cherif kouachi who are surrounded by police inside a printing shop. this is happening in a small town dammartin-en-goele. a mole industrial town near charles de gaulle airport and 25 miles east of paris. shots were fired after the men stole a car. reports of one hostage. nbc confirming hostage negotiators are in talks with the brothers. the deputy mayor said the men told the negotiators quote, we want to die as martyrs. police have blocked off all entrances to the town which has 8,000 residents. one resident said they are every where, the place is jumping, they blocked the w