have been involved as previously thought. hayat boumeddiene is still being pursued. but they say she flew to turkey and then crossed over to syria on january 2nd. this morning president francois hollande haddage emergency meeting. forces are planning for a major unity rally. ahead of tomorrow's rally, several cities showed tens of thousands marching in solidarity with the victims of this week's attacks, a day after yesterday's dual sieges, one in eastern paris where amedy was killed inside a kosher grocery store simultaneously the brothers sha

reed kouachi and his brother were killed. in all, 17 were killed in the terror attacks. right to nbc's ron allen is in paris and joins me live. ron, what can you tell us about these reports about the whereabouts of hayat boumeddiene? >> reporter: we've not been able to confirm it, frances, as you reported. it's something french authorities are just being very, very tight-lipped about. it's a huge story here. it's been circulating for several hours, and it's been one of the big mysteries hanging over this entire episode. where is this woman? did she play a role in the activities, the assaults that happened yesterday, the hostage takings, the murders? that is unclear. there were no reports of her being sighted at the grocery store with her boyfriend/partner, but again it's unclear about where she was. if these reports are true that she left the country several days ago and is now, as the reports say, in syria, that

tends to sound like it could be possible because it sounds like this operation had some level of planning, some level of coordination with the attack on the news magazine and that might have been part of it, she left to get away and escape. so, again, that part of it is just speculation, but authorities are not at all confirming or saying anything at all about her role in all of this. the big focus today is the huge unity rally happening tomorrow. they're now expecting as many as a million people to gather here in this plaza in france and walk about two miles through the city. there are estimates there could be several dozen leaders from arp the world, some 30 to 40 heads of state including the prime minister of israel, president of turkey maybe, which are significant because that's a jewish nation and a muslim nation. and those, of course, are the

two communities that are the center of focus after what has happened. in the -- there have been lots of concerns because a market in the joourish community were attacked, four of hir citizens were kill nd the market. in the muslim community, many are being blamed for what happened. and before all of this, in the weeks an months leading up to this, there has been some tension, a great deal of tension, in france about these so-called immigration problems they have here with so many people coming from north africa and the middle east to settle here during rather tough times in france, tough economic times. so you have these two communities, the jewish community, the muslim community, this massive attack, all this tension, the world leaders coming, concern about what could happen next. it's going to be quite a day here sunday. it will be very interesting to see how it all unfold. there are security arrangements

that the authorities have announced tonight that just include hundreds upon thousands of military and police on the streets, large areas of the city closed off, the metro system closed off in many areas, public transportation free so people can get around. this will start around 3:00 local time, 9:00 in the united states. it should last for several hours. as you rooeported, there are expected to be marches in many other cities and towns around paris. quite a huge day here, an effort to show solidarity and the hope is that, in fact, will show solidarity and that nothing terrible will happen and it will send a very powerful message here that this country and its allies will not be intimidated by what happened. >> the world will be watching. ron allen, thank you for threpo. joining me now by phone is "time" magazine's vivian walt who lived in paris. vivian, i want to ask you, after this week, we know there is that unity rally planned for

tomorrow. do you think this will change the way in which parisians and perhaps all french residents will see the terror threat, perhaps living with a heightened sense of aware no, sir? >> i think in some ways -- i was out in some of the suburbs of paris just kind of low income areas where it was largely muslim. you have a sense of the city getting back to normal after really chaotic violence, a stressful week. however, i think everybody is somewhat altered by this experience and there is a lot of talk about how the officials ought to have had a much closer eye on these young guys who they knew were jihadists and perhaps there might be a shift and a much more greater acceptance, if you'd like, into more security

measures. this is a country that has strongly resisted the sort of system that the u.s. has become very accustomed to after the 9/11 attacks. and although i don't think that the french would accept that level of security surveillance, it does seem like everybody is looking back on this week and probably seeing something that could have been avoided. >> vivienne, talk to me more about that. that strikes me when you say the french and authorities there have resisted how we go about our security measures here in the united states. what makes you say that, and what are examples of that? >> as the revelations came to light and a number of revelations that affected

france, the french were simply outraged. they couldn't believe that. they thought it was just horrible. you could say the same for germany, for example, a very strong sense of awareness of privacy and personal space and so on and quite a strong kind of historical reaction, if you like, against too much government intrusion. and given the events of the last few days, people say things that you might not have heard before, which is that these guys should not have been out of jail, that they -- the government needs to keep a much closer hand on these networks of jihadists. but they appeared to know a lot of information about them, but somehow had taken their eye off. >> do you think the uncertainty

about this female suspect hayat boumedie boumediene, questions about whether she even was in the country, that adds to the question of the intelligence there? >> absolutely. but she's not the only one. i mine, there are to be at least 300 french girls and women who have gone off to fight in syria or to be married off to jihadist fighters. and so there has been for many months now, if not the last year or more, talk among french organizations, professionals, government, police, how this is a new problem, that this constant grow and flow of young miz limb-french off to join the jihad in syria. and increasing anxiety about

what will happen felt back home it's really been the last couple of months that you've seen the results of that. not just this week's attack but the attack in brussels a few months ago which was committed by one of these returned french jihadists. >> i also want to ask you your take, interesting writing about the women that the gunmen spared. what you can tell us about that? >> it's a very, very curious phenomenon of one french woman and myself who had interviews with a lot of these families who have seen their daughters somehow transformed in very quick order from being young french girls in high school wearing jeans and t-shirts and so on, increasingly covered up and this is a very typical story, they leave the house, go to school and never come home

again. next they've heard of, they're married and living in syria and they've joined a network of people who are within isis or isis affiliated groups. so this is an incredible phenomenon that -- it's not large numbers of people, but you are talking about hundreds of women and girls. >> "time" magazine's vivienne walt, thank you very much for your perspective. time now to bring in ambassador martin ginsburg, the former ambassador to morocco and former white house policy adviser. thank you for joining us this afternoon. let's start with the concern of this week's attack that may mark a new frontier in the effort to control messaging. >> indeed. the fact of the matter is that the threats on claharlie hebdoeo

back to over a decade. the fact is that in the middle east, journalists have been killed regularly because of their views and there's no doubt that the united states there's been a great deal of self-censorship by the media, just not wanting to publish the cartoons that charlie hebdoe provocatively i may add were offensive to more radical muslims. so the bottom line is that this cult of murder in the name of islam has, shall we say, received almost open license as a result of the jihadism gripping europe. >> that cult of murder that we're watching here, the u.s. state department issuing a travel warning saying americans could face an increased risk now. how concerned are officials that the attackers in france who are part of a reawakened sleeper cell that will target americans next? >> indeed, you hit the nail on the head. the issuer of the sleeper cell.

the fact of the matter is that there were at least 750, if not more, french citizens that went to fight on behalf of isis. but look, said kouachi one of the brothers had actually been a disciple of anwar al awlaki who we assassinated in 2011, the infamous leader of al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, which by the way is still turning out dozens of al qaeda fighters targeting the united states in addition to the cosan group. between al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, the cosan group and separating isis, these al qaeda groups are still determined to attack the united states, still determined to recruit americans. >> even more alarming, we know these men were on the u.s. no fly list and were flagged by the

u.s. intelligence committee, they were on the french intelligence committee radar. what can remedy the misstep in not monitoring them even closer than that? >> listen, i remember when one of the times square bomber whose attack on times square was aborted by the new york police a couple of years ago, remember, he flew to pakistan claiming waez going to visit grandma and he went to train in al qaeda camp. i think it's extraordinarily important for the united states border police and customs officials to be keeping a very close tab on anyone that is leaving the united states. now, i'm not in favor of obviously profiling individuals. but let's get real here. there's a real threat to the united states. if there are young people between the ages of 18 and 35 that are traveling to turkey, traveling to pakistan, going to the middle east with no particular address that can be verified, i think it's time that we started following these people when they come back. the fact of the matter is, the

minute they land in any of the ports in the united states, they should be on a watch list watch away. >> talk about that, the potential for copycat attacks on u.s. soil, how it can thwart that knowing that these brothers are now names that we know, the images we know, hayat boumeddiene, we know her name now. that that may be the inspiration for others to do the same, this time in the united states. >> well, indeed. in fact, i think we all have to be realistic. the attack on the policeman by a hatchet man in brooklyn a few weeks ago, self-radicalized youth who have engaged in these so-called lone wolf attacks cannot be dealt with as well by the fbi. but we're talking about sleeper cells such as the boumeddiene brothers. it's far easier to have the sleeper cells rather than the lone wolves being radicalized by

social media put out by isis. all of us understand whether you're a counterterrorism official or not that it's going to require us to take a strong look at what we're permitting in and out of the united states in order to get a handle on what is coming back in and who is being radicalized in terms of social media being used by isis and by al qaeda in the arabian peninsula to radicalize disaffected youth in the united states. >> always an interesting conversation. former white house middle east policy adviser, ambassador marc ginsberg, thank you very much. >> sure. we'll have more on the search for the female suspect in the terror attacks ahead. and we have this video just in. a rally in new york's washington city square park to show sol solidarity for the paris attack, including tomorrow's big unity rally in france where more than a million people may be

attending including heads of state. ronan farrow will have more on that rally next half hour. more news, u.s. and coalition forces carried out 12 air strikes against isis targets in sair area. all but one near the hotly contested city of ka bauny. a few hours ago, george zimmerman posted bond and was released from jail. he was arrested last knight near orlando for aggravated assault and domestic violence with a weapon against his girlfriend. his lawyer says zimmerman is accused of throwing a wine bottle at the woman earlier this week. he is expected back in court next month. of course we remember in 2013 zimmerman was acquitted of second degree murder in the death of 17-year-old trayvon martin. and human rights activists protested in front of former vice president dick cheney's home. about 40 members from code pink and witness against torture protested the use of torture at

guantanamo bay. at one point some of them made it to cheney's front porch. last month he defended torture tactics. police eventually broke up that demonstration. that's when about 30 people from the group took the protest to the group gates of the cia building. certainly a dramatic week in paris. should we be concerned about copycat attacks in france or ens even in the united states? we'll talk to a special atf agent in charge, next. the nissan rogue, with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is your imagination.

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. two breaking developments we are following in connection with the france terror attacks. french media is reporting that police have released five family members of the kouachi brothers who were the terrorists behind the charlie hebdoe attack killed by police yesterday. those released reportedly include the wife of cherif kouachi as well as the younger brother and an 18-year-old brother-in-law who had turned himself in after social media circulated his name as one of three possible suspects in the

"charlie hebdoe" attack. the young man had an alibi backed by school mates who said he was in school. also french media is reporting that hayat boumeddiene, the female suspect in the attacks, may have traveled to syria january 2nd. the associated press is quoting a turkish official who says she crossed through that country. none of these reports have been confirmed by nbc. joining me is msnbc analyst retired atf special agent in charge and former hostage negotiator is jim cavanaugh. nice to have you here. >> hello. >> what do you make about the confusion about the female suspect and questions about whether she was even in the country at the time of the attack snz. >> right. we have to break that down. we have to see if she was present when the policewoman was killed. we have to look at analytically what happened in total. you have to understand what was happening here. this was likely to be the beginning of a terror campaign by this little cell. and the reason i say that is,

coulibali was at the jewish grocery, witnesses saw him a week prior at the jewish grocery. he was casing the place. he was not casing the place for a hostage cakeover. there was no viable plan for that. he was casing the place most likely for the mass murder, the second hit by these guys. it goes to the same reason they were wearing masks at "charlie hebdoe." you only wear masks for two reasons, to intimidate or hide your identity. these guys were trying to hide their identity. they had a plan to get away. it got busted when they left the i.d. in the car and crashed the wheel off the other car and they couldn't go home. their plan was busted. but the plan would have been most likely, in my analysis, to go home and lay low, and in a week or so they would come back and hit the place they had cased, the jewish deli, for another slaughter. this was going to be a campaign against the french people in paris by this cell. >> now, back to hayat

boumeddiene, still that search for her and the reports that she may be out of the country. if she was not in france, she was not there at the gas station, not there at the grocery store, that doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't really involved in the plot as a whole, though, does it? >> no. that's right. that's a great point. i mean, she could be a co-conspirator and not be actually present. she could have been sending text messages and be a communication specialist for the little cell, like a radio man. she could have been sending messages. she could have been given logistic support, money, help, weapons, done anything for them, even prior to the event. so this whole event, the at that attack on "charlie hebdoe" and maybe later as i surmise was going to be another slaughter at the grocery was planned. it was all planned out. it just got busted by them when they did the operation. whether she was in paris,

frances, or whether she was abroad remains to be seen. i think if she's in paris they'll catch her. if she's abroad in a conflict zone it will be much more difficult. >> we also have to fattctor in e connection of hayat boumeddiene and the wife or girlfriend of one that died. is there evidence that they planned through the women involved here? >> the police say there was 500 text messages or phone calls between her and the wives of the kouachi brothers. so there's obviously a lot of communication. they're close, whether or not that's convispiratorialconspira living jihad, thar a cell so likely there's a lot of communication. they can retrieve that from the phone companies and the phones and computers. 0 they'll be able too read that and they'll know. they may already know that and that's why they have the warrant. >> i have to ask you about the new reports that five of the family members have been

released including the wife of the younger brother, both who turned themselves in earlier this week. what do you make of that and their release? >> well, family members can be involved in the conspiracy and many may not be involved. like everybody sometimes family members are involved in criminal activity and others are completely innocent, just related by blood. so the police have to have evidence. they talked to them and maybe they are completely innocent. or maybe there's some they still suspect. but certainly they were on top of it. they've questioned them in detail quickly. and the french have strong anti-terrorism laws. i'm sure they're sorting out every scintilla of information they can get to put it together to see if there's any other active members that could launch another attack. >> as a former hostage negotiator, assess for me what the french team did yesterday in terms of what was going on in the six hours or so before they moved in, simultaneously from the kosher market and the printing shop. >> right, frances.

well, they couldn't apparently gain telephone contact directly with the kouachi brothers. they wouldn't speak to the negotiators. so that was pretty much silence over there. they were trying to assess that situation, squeeze it down but they weren't in direct communication. they were talking to the media, a television station had called in and talked to the kouachi brothers. and the television station had called in and talked to coulibali at the jewish deli. that happens sometimes. you know, i had a telephone operator break in when i was in a negotiation with david correspokaresh with all the lives hanging in the balance. koresh wanted of course to talk to the tv. the police were not in contact with the brothers. as far as the guy at the market, they may have had more contact with him. they were watching him on the closed circuit tv. they had a better handle on him and he was alone. thaefs a lot more stressful for the hostage taker. they were able to move in on

him. once they moved in on him, i think an important thing to note is he engaged them. in other words, he went for the tactical team with his rifle instead of going for the hostages. he wanted to engage them, kill the police, die there. if fact, he charged toward the officers. he had a bulletproof vest when he killed the policewoman. they shot him, wounded him. charged and they kept shooting until they stopped him and saved everybody inside. >> an interesting take, that when it comes to law enforcement in france, we're talking about just french police, not fbi, nothing as far as the equivalent of a federal government. how does that work? >> they do have the franench national police. they had lots of equipment. the question on the barricades, the hostage barricade, is were they able to deploy the communication equipment that would lock the cell phones down. that's always been a problem for us dealing with those things.

it's a problem for the police everywhere because this thing moves real fast. and there's cell phones in there. can you lock those down? because people have communication with the outside, the hostage actakers can talk t the media, talk to confederates, talk to everybody but the police. what you have to do is get them only to talk to the negotiator. that's it. that's the only outlet, the negotiator. but it's hard to do it quickly. we don't know if it was done in the jewish deli. i'm sure they were trying to do it. but it's something the political leaders of america could help police with, federal, state, city, county officers. we all ought to be able to do that quickly in an emergency situation, have the gear quickly shut that cell communication down on a barricade incident. i'll tell you, it's weak. it's weak in america, i've lived it. i know it. >> always fascinating to hear your take. jim cavanaugh, thank you for being with us. >> thanks. time now to bring in jared bernstein, former chief

economist for vice president biden a biden. as we show that 2014 was the best year for hiring in 15 years, the nation's unemployment rate fell here, we thank you for being with us. when it comes to these numbers, we're talking about a six-year low at 5.6%. what do you make of these numbers? >> well, 2014 was just a much better year for the job market than any year we've had since the great recession, which began in late 2007. if you look at 2013, for example, which wasn't bad, we were adding something like around 200,000 jobs per month. last year we added 250,000, and, as we know now, we ended the year on a very strong note. november with 350,000, december with 250,000. so we have a job market that's really tightening up. that means that the labor market is finally hooking up to the rest of the economy. however, there's still one corner of this recovery that

hasn't been reached yet, and that's people's paychecks. that's a very big deal. we're still seeing pretty flat wage growth. that's yet to recover. >> let's go back and talk about this bloomberg news, the report of the number of people filing for unemployment has fallen to the lowest level in more than a decade. retirement is part of the declined. janet yellin said discouraging work er workers are part of the decline. is the fact that some workers have stopped looking for a job put a damper on the unemployment numbers? >> it does. if you listen to what chair janet yellin is saying she's going a bit further. she's saying in fact, we think if we can get the job market really tight evened up so we start to see wage pressure, instead of too many workers chasing too few jobs, the other way around, employers needing to bid wages up to make better paycheck offers in order to get people back to the workforce.

chair yellin thinks we can pull some of those folks back in. yes, the bottom line is there's more slack in the labor market than that 5.6% unemployment rate would suggest. that said, we're still moving in the right direction and moving there more quickly than we were. >> you touched on it. let's talk about the other weak spot, average hourly wages fell 5% in december. can there be a successful recovery of workers seeing the benefits of higher wages? how do we factor 20 states raising the minimum wage? >> first of all, it's 5 cents, not 5%. it would be really terrible if it fell that much. it fell 5 cents. >> thank you. i misspoke there. >> that's okay. the way to look at these monthly numbers, to smooth out the monthly bips and bops, look year over year. year over year, wages grew 1.7%. that's not great, about the rate of inflation. those minimum wage increases are really interesting. you mentioned 20, 21 states giving their minimum wage a boost. those are actually some of the

few workers we're seeing who are actually getting a little bit ahead on their real paycheck. so that minimum wage is helpful to them, but of course that's a relatively small corner of the job market. i think that we can really tighten up this labor market, not this 5.6%, which is probably biased down a bit because of the labor force we were talking about, but something even lower, then we might see some real pressure on wages helping to reach folks in the middle and not just at the bottom with the minimum wage. >> jared bernstein, thank you for breaking it down for us. >> thank you. still to come, the world prepares to come together in support of the people of france and in defiance of terrorism. msnbc's ronan farrow reports ahead. banking designed for the way you live your life. so you can welcome your family home... for the first time. chase. so you can.

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welcome back to our live extended coverage. coming up, more breaking developments on that france terror investigation involving the female suspect still on the loose. we just received some new information about tomorrow's unity rally in paris. but first, we want to take a moment to tell you a little more about another victim from wednesday's deadly attack. george w shortly after his death, his daughter posted this picture on

instagram. it appears to be her father's office showing his pen and drawing board and desk. along with a short message which when translated reads in part, daddy's gone. tomorrow's unity rally will attract hundreds of thousands but the attacks of the past week have created more tension within france's minority communities. msnbc's ronan farrow is live in paris with more on the rally. ronan, i understand there will be some important figures there tomorrow. >> reporter: that's exactly right, frances. just coming in in the past hour, an announcement from the ministry of the interior that benjamin netanyahu of israel will be on that list. that of course is very significant because one of these attacks was in a jewish community at a jewish supermarket. and we've been in jewish communities around this area talking to parisians who are jewish and talking just how concerned they are. at many of the sites including the one behind me there are also candles being let. we're seeing people express the

sentiment of not just i am charlie but i am jewish. that's a sign we've seen over and over again, including at a rally commemorating the violence earlier today at that supermarket. so netanyahu's presence will be significant. it was accompanied by a significant statement as well saying, israel is a home for jews everywhere and that jewish individuals leaving france are welcome there. now, that follows on a period of almost two years of charges of rising antisemiti-semitism here france and many choosing to leave the country. it's a tense moment right now for that community here. that's one reason why security is going to be so, so tight tomorrow at the rally. >> i can imagine that as we heard those sirens behind you. tell us a little bit about the police presence now and the security for tomorrow's rally. >> reporter: we've been hearing sirens all day, frances, including in the shop shots we've done together. many are fault alarms but it

shows how on edge this city is. certainly it will be on edge tomorrow. the march will start right here in the plaza. we are expected hundreds of thousands of people including world leaders and there will be security on all of these rooftops around me, snipers pointing at everyone in the crowd making sure that nothing goes awry. we're also told by french authorities there will be 2200 policemen and 1500 military officers. some of the security forces, frances, won't be easily i'd final, but will be in plainclothes. they hope that keeps things from going awry. >> as the world watches this unity rally tomorrow, thank you ronan farrow. still more to come in our coverage of the france terror attacks. we'll take a deeper look at the female suspect on the loose and if she is in syria. what are the chances she can be brought to justice? that's coming up. and new documents reveal that a group of missouri lawmakers try to force ferguson's chief to step down. tom jackson was the target of

much criticism following the shooting of michael brown last august, for his handling of the investigation and his officers' response to protesters. this was last hour. i want to bring this up, a substantial part of the conversation centered around trying to get darren wilson to resign prior to the decision of the grand jury and to get chief jackson to resign and i didn't have any interest in participating in that. what's your response to that? and do you know why lawmakers would be against it? >> vi to tell you there are some colleagues of mine who don't understand the issue, and they want to understand. in the case of john deal, i think that his actions have revealed exactly what position he stands in. so i think, as the speaker of the house, he has an obligation to understand both sides of the argument. luckily, in the missouri state senate we have senators who are

overwhelmingly wanting to understand the situation. now, if chief jackson had resigned, either last year or even now, it would relieve a lot of the tension that exists right now not only in ferguson but in the general area. >> let's bring in the factor there are several leading up to people demanding that, especially the protesters. we've covered this story extensively. part of it has been his department's decision to release certain details and the timing of releasing those details. for instance, we have detail of jackson at press conferences where he revealed that brown robbed a convenience store and then said wilson was not aware that brown was a robbery suspect when he encountered him. he was criticized for that. is that the point where you think he should have resigned, or was that even too late? >> you know, i have to tell you, that positioning was quite concerning to all of us. it should not have been the proper time to release that information. what protesters and others had

been asking for is simply the name of the police officer who shot michael brown. by offering the other information, not only did they lean attention to michael brown in a negative sense, a young man who was dead who could not defend himself anymore, but what they decided to do is mud yesterday hy his name along with the name of darren wilson. because of that injury that occurred in our community, that is one of the reasons why we wanted chief jackson to resign. wet want him to resign right now. >> of course, that hasn't happened. but talk about that. do you think his resignation early on would have changed the tone of the protests? and how? >> absolutely. well, again and again there have been so many mistakes on the part of the governor, obviously on the part of bob mccullough, our prosecuting attorney here in st. louis county, and chief jackson and the mayor and city council in ferguson. so at every point of the way, if there was any action that would

take away some of the pain and the hurt and the anger, it would relieve some of that tension. it is natural to have a lot of anger after you see a young black man in the streets for 4 1/2 hours and then you see people who are either appointed or elected into their offices and they perform in a reckless manner. so that is why we trying to find resolve. but what it takes is a lot of cooperation on the part of not only the speaker of the house but also members of the full general assembly. >> that was my conversation with maria chappelle nadal out of ferguson. up next, romney says he's considering a third run for the whie white house. what that means, next. ur

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turning to politics, mitt romney says he is seriously considering a third run for president in 2016. romney made the comments to a group of donors yesterday in new york city, but he didn't give a timetable for his decision. joining me now, derek wallbank,

congressional reporter for bloomberg news. nice to see you, derek. i want to hear your take. is rom yney going to enter the race? >> he's keeping his options open. when it gets to romney, enough people are getting into the race, who are talking seriously about it, if you want to get in, leave yourself that door open, you've got to signal your intent right now. this is at minimum, at minimum, about freezing out donations to other people telling some of the big super donors on the republican side to keep your powder dry just in case. and at maximum it could be laying the ground for a count it third bid. >> we were talking about donor competition here, his biggest one could be from former florida governor jeb bush. here's what the "wall street journal" said about the potential matchup, quote, romney and bush should they both run would contend for many of the same dohrns who favor pro-business candidates from the

party's establishment wing. who would they support if they had to choose between the two? >> that's the tricky thing, isn't it? mitt romney and jeb bush sort of come out of the same kind of wing of the republican party. they're both former governors of fairly large states, they tend to get lumped in when you do the analyses of establishment guys, different than sort of a rand paul, very different than a ted cruz kind of person. so they sort of come out of the same kind of republican base, the business-friendly group of people and certainly have big connections. look, it's no accident the fact that when mitt romney told this group of people he's talking to a bunch of people in manhattan. >> you're right. >> he's not talking to people in sioux falls. >> well, take the money thing aside. how will he make this campaign different this time around? >> well, from a neutral party's perspective, it makes it a lot more exciting. this guy is a titan and a guy who's run for president twice before. he raises as much money as he

ever wants to. mitt romney is the sort of person that if you put him in a poll, he comes upd first or pretty first because everybody knows who he is. this is a guy who after he ran starred in this documentary "mitt" that everyone said portrayed him in a much better light than he portrayed himself on the campaign trail. so i think this is a guy whose image is rehabilitated a bit. >> you think we'll see the mitt from that documentary. >> well, it's funny because you look at mitt, you look at hil y hillary clinton, both people who ran before, and people came out afterwards and said, look, if you'd shown more of your personality, maybe that would have been better. if you're mitt romney and you say, maybe i have actually a chance, why not? but i've got to tell you, this is going to be a very diverse field. i saw some people say initially, oh, if mitt gets in, that's it. that's not it at all. mitt romney does not freeze out ted cruz. he did z not freeze out rand

paul. mitt romney does not freeze out rick santorum. i can keep going for a while. you still have other wings of the republican party,s the wings that showed themselves to be frustrated in the speakership vote against john boehner. those wings have not gone away and are not going away and they want to be heard in this presidential race. >> and we will all be watching. derek wallbank, thank you for your perspective. >> thank you. french intelligence were aware of the suspects in the paris terror attacks. the brothers were even believed to have ties to terrorists. next we'll take a look. how u.s. law enforcement track pose terrible terror risks like the kouachi brothers.

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who were the terrorists behind the "charlie hebdoe" attack, killed by police including a wife of one of the brothers. also french media is reporting that hayat boumeddiene, the female suspect in the attacks may have traveled to syria on january 2nd. none of these reports have been confirmed by nbc news joining me is retired army colonel jack jacobs, a msnbc military analyst. thank you for sticking with us this afternoon. let's talk about hayat boumeddiene, the fourth suspect reportedly out of the country and reportedly not even in paris or in france during the time of the attacks. how much of a concern should there be with that? >> i think not very much. i think the real concern ought to be, as we discussed earlier, a copycat incident, people who are disaffected and who aspire to be jihadists and so on. with her being out of the country, not a big deal. i'm really surprised actually it was recently reported that she

was in the deli. that may have just been bad communications inside the french police. because it didn't make any sense that she was there and then a day later she's out of the country in syria. >> and we're still not sure if she was in fact there at the attack at the gas station where the policewoman was killed. >> no. that's not clear either. we have people over there now getting the after-action report and there will be released information and we'll have a much better picture. and we want a much better picture because we are concerned. >> you've heard the criticism when it comes to the intelligence there, especially in france, about how the kouachi brothers slipped through the cracks since they were on the radar, on the u.s. no fly list, french authorities were aware and how that could happen. what needs to be done for the french and for the eu? >> the eu in particular i'm glad you mentioned it, france is part of the eu, which means there are open borders, you can go from one country to another without really getting investigated.

but what's really astonishing is what you mentioned, that these guys were on the radar of french intelligence. one of them had already served time in jail. they knew they had gone to yemen and gotten training. yet they managed to elude being looked at and did this act of terror. this ought toob a lesson not only to the french police but the u.s. >> we've learned news in the past hour that five family members have been released of these brothers. is there more to read into that other than they didn't have useful information? >> i think that's the case. one of the things you want right away is information, which is one of the reasons why it's always much better to get terrorist as live so you can interrogate them. but trust me there are lots of other people they're rounding up to talk to because these brothers had a wide net, a lot of people they associated with, and so there will be a lot of interrogations. i bet there will be more intelligence coming out of the interrogations. >> sure. here in the united states, how do we go about tracking there might be the equivalent of the

kouachi brothers within the u.s. boundaries? >> we try to keep an eye on just about anybody who keeps sense to keep an eye on. it's often easy because these people don't have very much sense. they use open social media. we easily track them down and keep an eye on them. but also we're in a country that doesn't have the separations that they do in france. the capability to get up the social and economic ladder, not over there. >> you mentioned social media, but isn't that part of the glory for these guys that now we're talking about them, we know their names, talking about the kouachi brothers, that may be what inspires others? >> yeah. and will inspire others. as a matter of fact, these terrorist organizations have their own web sites. there is a lot of inspiration among people who are easily inspired to do these kinds of things. and what all intelligence organizations have to do is

share intelligence with others, including the united states. >> and for us to be more vigilant with what we see and hear. colonel jack jacobs, thank you very much. >> thanks. and we appreciate your being with us. i'm frances rivera. thank you for joining us for extended coverage of the terror siege in france. stay with msnbc for live updates here throughout the night. but with the help of her raymond james financial advisor, she had planned for every eventuality. ...which meant she continued to have the means to live on... ...even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. americans drink 48 billion that's enough plastic bottles to stretch around the earth 230 times. each brita filter can replace 300 of those. clean. clear. brita water. nothing is better.

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