no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. a day of unity and defiance. good morning, thanks for getting up with us this sunday morning. lots of politics news and news about politics. get you later in the morning. but right now the final hour of preparation is under way as we speak as crowds gather in pairs for a unity rally with global support. check out some of the live scenes here. amazing pictures even more people are expected to take the streets than the 700,000 who did so across france yesterday. we're also going to talk about the first show down between the new congress and president obama little bit later in the show. legislation he is vowing to

veto, but may be heading to his desk anyway. what happens next? major signs the economy is bouncing back in a big way. who gets the credit for that? what happens if it still doesn't feel like it's bouncing back to many americans. again, we start this hour in paris where, we just mentioned, final preparations are under way for this morning's truly massive unity rally. 40 leaders mostly from europe as well as hundreds of thousands of others all expected to take part this morning. just in from paris, prosecutors are assaysaying the alleged gunman has now been linked to a third shooting. ballistics show the same gun was used in the shooting of a jogger on wednesday. the same day as the charlie hebdo attacks. that jogger was seriously wounded. also a new propaganda video that appears to show the suspects in all three of those incidents

incidentsplegic his support to isis. it has emerged and making the rounds online. meanwhile, the search continues on the ground for his girlfriend. they believe she might be an accomplice. all traces of her after that have been lost. in germany overnight, homburg newspaper that reprinted a charlie hebdo cartoon was hit with an arson attack. no one was hurt in that. richard engel is live for us in paris. richard, if we could just start with the report and, again, nbc news is not apparently verified any of the details here but we have this gunman in a video pledging allegiance to isis. what do we know about that right

now? >> absolutely. but before we get to that let me just explain where i am right now. i am in one of the main squares in central paris and there are already tens of thousands of people here. organizers are hoping that a million people will show up not just in this square but in several adjacent squares really all across downtown paris for this rally to call for unity to denounce violence to denounce those attacks that started at the charlie hebdo newspaper and then continued on with those two hostage situations. now, we are learning more and in paris officials are releasing more information about the kosher supermarket gunman. he according to paris officials, was the same gunman who shot a policewoman the day before. they know that because they have matched the ballistics from the gun casings from bullet casings

that were found at the scene of both shootings and they are also linking him to the shooting at that jogger. also it seems that in between the time that this attacker shot the policewoman and then went on the next day to take hostages at a kosher grocery, it seems somewhere in that time he made the final testimony in which he videotaped himself, may have had assistance and a pledge of allegiance to isis and declaring his loyalty. and then so far we only have media reports suggesting that his partner, some people described him as his common law wife, hayat left the country before he carried out these attacks and into syria, presumably to join up with isis where it would have been difficult for her to be caught.

some of the chants we have been hearing so far in the square i am charlie and talking about liberty, liberty. >> richard, the scenes we're seeing behind you and we saw earlier in the show amazing in terms of the volume of people out there right now. i wonder if you hear anything and if you talked to anyone about the intelligence failures in france that allowed these people to sort of blossom into you know, jihadists in plain view. as we mentioned with boumeddine. first, was she in the supermarket or at large and now apparently left the country days ago. have you heard anything trying to piece together the intelligence situation? >> we're not hearing that here at this rally. this is a much more emotional event. this is a family event. a lot of people here are adults. they brought their children. many people are holding homemade

fliers with the slogan of this event, i am charlie in solidarity with the cartoonists who were gunned down. in the french media, we are already starting to see those questions raised. how are these three suspects who were known to french intelligence who were under surveillance at one stage not have been picked up before they went on their killing and hostage spree? in particular, the two brothers who managed to leave the country who are at large, who were free to plot and plan for this attack, even throw one of them had spent considerable amount of time in prison for terrorism charges and arrested initially in 2005 and then arrested again in 2010. why wasn't he under closer supervision. yes, french media and french intellecchuckals and critics are

starting to ask that question. that is not the theme of this rally. much more coming together and denouncing the violence. if you look all around the square, you see a variety of flags up on the statue and some people are hanging the french flag. the israeli flag and turkish flag and people are looking out of their windows on the square. there's an armenian flag this man is telling me here. >> we won't forget the armenian flag. people are coming here from all sectors to stand together to say they will not accept what happened in this country and they will not accept to be torn apart along religious, cultural or ethnic lines. >> richard engel live for us in paris. appreciate that report. a lot more on that rally when it gets under way. more coverage from paris on the show and throughout the day here on msnbc. meanwhile, u.s. attorney general eric holder is in paris at this hour and there to attend

counter terrorism meetings and as we just mentioned a pair of intelligence failures that led to these attacks. how was it that these suspects were known to counter officials and three days of bloodshed could happen. also the issue of the missing girlfriend and the suspected accomplice who may have slipped out of france days before the attacks began. joining me now former ambassador to morocco mark ginsburg and clint van sant as well as msnbc contributor. ginsburg let me start with you on this news about coulibaly. pledging allegiance to isis. two brothers invoking al qaeda in yemen. what are you starting to make about this isis video? >> steve, it's almost like to quote yoga beara.

one in yemen where and they have direct ties or may have direct ties to isis. after all if hayat boumeddiene she made her way to syria. when you come down to right where we were after 9/11 and where we are in 2015 we still have the same ideology that has not been adequately econtained and seems to be contracting a new generation of dissatisfied muslims, extremists or whatever you have. we don't have a good enough policy to contain it. until we are willing in effect to make the decisions that are necessary in the middle east we will face that all over again. >> on that point clint. the point that we're seeing in

some of the reporting. coulibaly born to a family in france and now apparently attracted at some point in the last few years into sort of a violent jihadism. when you look at a background like that what usually, what is the allure to somebody to a background like that to fall into the world of jihad? >> well i think at any point in his life or at any point in the life of the deceased brothers they could have made a turn one way or the other. it's interesting what my friend mark is pointing out right now. we've come to this terrible point where the enemy of my enemy is my friend. we know one of deceased were found they found the flags of both of the two terrorist organizations were inside. like somebody was living in chicago and you are for the cubs and the white sox depending on who's winning at that time and

to see the mating of these two organizations, it's like, well there's some points i don't like, but some points i do. but there is a utilitarian purplepurp purpose that brings these groups together. when they come together in the small unit activity, which is something apparently we're going to see in the future they're able to lay down their differences for their common cause. in this case attacking america and especially in france attacking those who they think were involved in the war in the middle east. >> and, clint, the other question everybody has is how do you spot this? how do you spot this happening? again, the profile coulibaly out there in "new york times" paints a picture of a guy who has been at a coca-cola plant. full-time employment nobody around him was picking up any cues and this is happening behind the scenes. he is going through this conversion. how do you pick that up?

>> a couple things. number one, when we see these new pictures of coulibaly we see him posing with an ak- .47. this is something we'll see with suicide bombers. they'll make a video before they go out and attack. so we see this kind of role over again in these situations. but the challenge for the authorities, say like in france, for example, depending who you talk to there are anywhere from 400 to over 2,000 french passport holders who have fought against coalition forces in middle east and come back to france. well, when you do the numbers that we're told the last couple days anywhere from 10 to 20 police officers per person to conduct a 24-hour surveillance. you can't do it, steve. you have to do like in a medical emergency. you do a triage and you say, who's the most critical person we have to deal with medically, in this case as a terrorist.

they put their resources on that person, but some people are going to fall off. i can tell you, as an fbi agent having done this sometimes you're absolutely correct and sometimes you cross your fingers and you hope you're right because you've got too many targets and too few people to cover all those targets. >> ambassador, let me ask you this the prime minister of france made a little bit of news yesterday. in his view france is at war with radical islam. is that is that the right way to be looking at this? >> absolutely, steve. listen, the situation in france where i was at just a few months ago is really dangerous. there has been a stream of lone wolf attacks committed in the name of islam that haven't been reported here. there have been attacks over the last six months against jewish businesses by islamic extremists. there are sharp divisions within france and the fact of the matter is that, after all, we all knew that charlie hebdo was

a target and target of attack by islamic extremists and put on a let's destroy them list by the leader of isis and by the leaden ayman al and promoting extremists not only to make their way to the middle east and return, but what is the judicial process by which they can contain us while respecting civil liberties. it's a real problem we faced here after 9/11 and it isn't, as the french are saying as i listened to french radio this morning. it's their 9/11 even they were exposed before 9/11. attacks in the metro in paris in the '90s as a result of the algerian civil war. this is nothing new to the french authorities and ashamed to see that they have not done

enough to contain the social as well as the ideological and thelogical extremism that they're now facing. >> ambassador mark gins. all the news in the political headlines back home. but throughout the morning we want to make sure to convey a clear picture of some of who this week's victims are. one is he stepped in to protect a 3-year-old boy. that's when the gunman killed him instead. with the incredible fuel efficiency of 38 miles-per-gallon highway you can feel like royalty

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all right.

welcome back. looking at some live scenes here from paris. the crowds gathering for that unity rally that is expected to be starting some time within the hour. some amazing pictures. just the sheer volume of people there you see on the wider shot. just the volume of people who have turned out for this. obviously, still more time for more to gather within the hour. that will be starting. live coverage from there when that begins and updates, obviously, throughout the show and throughout the morning. right now, though we want to return to new york and our panel. making stories in the u.s. some political stories and good news if you're a dallas cowboys fan. new jersey governor chris christie will be at today's cowboys/packers playoff game in green bay. by now you probably know of christie's love for the cowboys which he is a5-0 in games he attended. controversy revealed when jones paid for christie's travel and tickets for last weekend's game.

christie says this weekend he will pay his own way to green bay. introduce our panel this morning, susie kim, national reporter with msnbc, katie packer-gauge and emily tish-sussman american progress action fund. so chris christie the good luck charm for the green bay packers. >> dallas cowboys. >> excuse me yes, the dallas cowboys. just not one of the teams from the new york or philadelphia area. that's what we know. what do you guys think of this? i always said what drives me nuts in politics is the politicians who pretend to like the local team and it's obvious they don't care. so i always respected the politicians who are kind of honest about that but then again, christie in the owner's box last week. i was like maybe sit in the stands. i don't know. what do you guys think of this? >> i'm from detroit. not necessarily a lions fan. but it was interesting, there was a lot of chatter after that

game, you know among michiganers and i spoke with a friend of mine who is the most die-hard detroit lions fan and he said look the guy's been a fan his whole life. i give a guy credit for sticking with a team that he has been rooting for his whole life. i think it's interesting that governor perry isn't the good luck charm for the dallas cowboys. so i give chris christie some credit for managing to expand his base. >> so what i really love about the story is how much christie wants it to be. classic pro-christie kind of story. i'm the contrarrian, i'm going to say what i think and how i feel regardless of how it is. also how inevitably it turns into the anti-christie story. the report from "wall street journal" which shows jerry jones was the co-owner of a hospital hospitality who won a bid that christie was involved with.

of course, christie says they weren't actually friends at the time and these two things had nothing to do with each other, but it's very interesting to me that he can't quite avoid that sort of entire web and that whole story line which i'm something he wants to get. >> the idea that like, chris christie took jerry jones with port authority contract so he could get tick ootsets to the game. >> but it does get into the appearance thing that i'm talking about. if you're the super fan of cowboys and they're in new jersey. just go down there on your own dime and sit in the stands. when you're in the owner's box and on national tv at that moment, you are sending a message. >> dont make it a whole thing. although he may be a life-long cowboys fan. he is not from dallas. he is nomnew jersey. there is no lack of teams in new jersey for him to be rooting

for. the giants jets in northern new jersey and they are equally as intense eagles fan in southern new jersey. >> he probably never has to run in new jersey, again. >> hey, it's a blue state in the general election and term limit as governor. >> chris christie is who chris christie is. i think, talking about port authority contracts, i mean the guy is a dallas cowboy fan. he's rabidly a fan for the dallas cowboys and i just think we're overthinking it when we turn it into a big political issue. >> here is something we're not overthinking. there is something there but i think that susie makes a great point, a lot of what chris christie is so proud on running on. he doesn't care he does his thing. those persepgceptions flip really really quickly. he love as he is that guy and stand up to teachers and he does what he wants and when it

started to come out with the bridgegate and did he or did he not know? all those flipped very quickly and in polling language that you see from new jersey residents that say he is a bully and that is where he needs to be careful. >> that didn't change chris christie. chris christie continues to be who he is and he doesn't run away from these things. i think at the end of the day, he'll say to the voters -- >> he does feel like the ultimate sort of political, the, you look at the ink button and you see what you're going to see. some people see the bully and some see the plain spoken guy. >> people didn't like that he hugged jerry jones. >> the other thing we know about him, he's stubborn. >> he'll be on the field. >> some of his hope ends today. anyway we'll be right back. news interesting developments on a republican rivalry that not many people saw coming and, obviously, more from paris as the morning continues. back after this. out of 42 vehicles...

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live pictures from paris. that big unity rally expected to start minutes from now. back, though, with the panel here in new york and the "washington post" there is a report that things are heating up between mitt romney and jeb bush now that mitt is considering a third presidential run. romney has been raising concerns about jeb's ties to barclays and voiced out about political skills. mitt failed to defend his business record and comparing his with romney's is comparing an apple to a peanut. romney 2012 campaign what do you make of this? i was telling you off the air, i'm surprised. i did not think mitt romney will make a move like this. what do you think of all this playing out? >> i don't think it's a huge move. a guy who runs for president

twice has an interest in beingprise.being president. that's not surprising to me that he might reserve the option. >> it sounds like he might do more than that. jeb bush is making a big push and that seemed like a very intentional. >> you reserve the option if you say, yes, i'm seriously considering it. that's what he said to a group of donors. i take him at his word. it sounds like he's discussing it with his family. i think that he's preserving the option. but, you know i think he's got a long history with the bush family and, you know it will be interesting to see how it plays out. >> susie, the idea what i always thought was that romney would wait and flounder and maybe romney would be the white knight that came in. the two these might go head-to-head, republicans are starting to grapple with this. this is not the race they sort of expected. >> i canould see romney saying

why not me? on the things that he feels like jeb is competitive on and with all this buzz with jeb, you know, generating all this interest. moving so early. it sort of seems like what sort of been interesting is jeb has positioned himself of being like romney, bout without the things you didn't like about romney. he is releasing his tax returns. years of tax returns which he did early which was a big issue early. he released e-mails that he got while he was florida governor. so you know in terms of these two guys positioning themselves i mean they do have a group of donors that are similar that you know in terms of being the establishment candidate, if romney is going to signal anything right now, it might as well be before jeb's term. >> one of the articles in "the post" it sounds like some of jeb's comments and some of the

things you're talking about distancing yourself in 2012 they rubbed romney the wrong way. second guessing like on immigration and basically saying he catered too much to the base and when bush made that comment, if you want to win the general election, you have to be okay with winning the primary. that seemed aimed at romney. romney too worried about the republican base. sounds like personal friction here. >> the timing does seem interesting. this has certainly been the week of jeb bush news. he opened his pack and moved around and making tons of comments and then romney just comes right on in and sweeps in. if this is a private conversation with donors, it certainly got out. like somebody is sending that out there. he's -- >> that's why i say seems clearly telegraphed move here. >> the thing that keeps it very interesting if they both stay in, it keeps the conversation on the republican primary for months and months and months. it becomes a very competitive

primary where they're trying to simultaneously occupy the same space of business moderate and play a little bit to the outside to the base. so, it keeps it going for months and months where as on the left in 2008 there was a very obviously, a very serious democratic primary where all anybody was talking about, hillary versus obama. wouldn't be the same situation now. she's pretty much cleared the field of strong democratic candidates. it does give the republicans much more in the conversation for months. >> so hillary likes the news this week. thanks to emily, msnbc susie, i'll see you later in the show. still ahead, as we continue this morning, a new congress. you might have heard about that one and a whole lot of new questions. the keystone pipeline. the democrats that might vote with mcconnell and whether or not john boehner gets revenge on people who try to throw him out as speaker. we'll try to tackle some of those questions and more. you won't want to miss that. also crowds growing now in paris. you see the wide shot there.

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all right. back. looking at more live images in paris. the crowd is growing. that unity rally now just about a half hour away. more coverage of that on the show and throughout the day on msnbc. with all that is happening in paris and all this weekend, something else on the political front in the united states got lost on friday. passed a bill to approve the xl pipeline deal and now that moves to the senate where it could have enough votes to pass and move to the desk of president obama who says he will veto it. passing keystone mitch mcconnell's stated first goal of the congress. republicans 54 votes in the senate and will need 60. the hill newspaper has

identified a group of democrats that mcconnell thinks can get him there on keystone and other key votes that are coming up. meanwhile, in the house, speaker john boehner is dealing with the aftermath of a conservative rebellion this week. reports that boehner's revenge by holding committee memberships from those who opposed him. less clear if he is actually following through on those threats. joining me now, two of the best reporters on capitol hill. luke russert and senior congressional reporter at po politico. can you gain this out for us. is this thing going through the senate this week and get through with amendments attached to it. any chance that president obama's posture on this changes? >> it is going to get through. i don't think it will get through this week because of the senate's schedule as well as the fact that mitch mcconnell has promised to opened up the process, allow for scores and scores of votes. so, this could, this could play out up until the state of the union week and maybe even after

the state of the union week. so mcconnell will get his 60 votes in the senate. i don't think there is any doubt about that. but what he will not get is the 67 votes that he would need to override a presidential veto. so that is the dynamic that boehner and mcconnell are going to face not just on keystone but on a lot of key issues going forward. they may have the votes to get out of the house and get enough moderate democrats to get legislation through the senate but they don't have the votes to override a veto. so what do they do next? how do they please their conservative base without making it appear that they're caving to the white house's demands? >> there was this court ruling in nebraska a bit of a complicated thing. the white house was saying they were waiting in part on this court ruling to make a decision on this. now the court has come forward and issued its decision and said the pipeline can go ahead. is there any thought or possibility that the white house gets in a political position here where they have to accept this? >> i think there is a possibility of that and i think

that's one of the things when you heard the white house, the veto threat against the legislation moving through congress, they were not necessarily saying that they opposed building the pipeline, they opposed congress forcing their hand and they said there is a process already playing out, one of which was that court case but while another state department review over this project, there is a chance outside chance that the president does actually approve this pipeline but probably not because of what congress is doing. but if he does do that steve, as you know it will provoke a lot of concern from folks on the left. at this point, i'm pretty skeptical he will go against his base on this. >> other side of capitol hill now, luke, the question of the house. we saw that drama play out this week with the john boehner. you have to have that very public vote for speaker. 25 republicans voting for somebody else. some interesting names were offered up by some of those republicans. so, what is going on now. the headlines where john boehner will get revenge. is he getting revenge? what is the aftermath of that? >> as of right now it is clear

if, in fact he is getting revenge. there was speculation and as of right now it is true that he was removing two of those members who his post on the rules committee. that obviously, up to his discretion who serves on that and the republican side. as far as the large-scale clean out that his allies wanted putting real pressure on these rebels and bring them to the wood shed for lack of better words, he has not done that. boehner, as you mentioned, faced 25 people in opposition to his speakership. i asked him about that. why is there such fervent opposition to your leadership. outside operators, specifically in the talk radio world. he said to me look it frustrates me. i'm the eighth most conservative speaker dating back to my time in the house. i'm not a squish. i'm not spineless. the most anti-establishment speaker we ever had here. that's what boehner feels like. where the republican party is now, steve.

someone like john boehner who does, in fact have a conservative voting record. him being considered a squish by the outside conservative forces. all that being said if you want to see who won this battle between baner and the conservatives and the speakership, well, boehner won because he remained speaker. but look at the immigration bill that house republicans moved out on friday but decided to move out on friday and vote on it come this friday. it repeals the president's last executive order on immigration. so you're seeing an immigration bill move very far to the right and john boehner allowing that to happen after that contentious speaker vote. so up to you to decide who won that battle. >> sound like the conservatives getting what they want on that. luke russert and manu we appreciate you getting up this morning. on the other side of this break, we'll return to paris. more images from that big rally that is only minutes away. live from there right after this.

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all right. looking live there, again. an overhead shot in paris. hundreds of thousands of people organizers saying maybe up to mailian will turn up today. maybe more for that big unity rally that is scheduled to start at the top of the hour just minutes from now. quite a scene there in paris. quite a turn out for this today. a lot of people coming out to show, to show after a very emotional week what they're feeling about what they want for the future. keeping an eye on that obviously, bringing you live coverening coverage when that begins in the minutes ahead. turning back to presidential politics. president obama taking a victory lap of sorts on friday. >> one of my resolutions is to make sure that folks across this great country feel like they are coming back. and there is no doubt thanks to the steps that we took early on

to rescue our economy and to rebuild it on a new foundation, america is coming back. >> president obama talking on friday about the latest jobs numbers that came out that day. some very positive numbers. 2014 was the best year for hiring in 15 years. since bill clinton was president back in 1999. good news for the obama administration you would think or is it as the president himself pointed out in those remarks. america may be coming back strong, but are americans actually feeling that comeback? paul krugman writes the republicans expected to run in 2016 against a record of failure, what do they do if the economy is looking pretty good. with who is going to benefit most politically eif the economy does continue to bounce back if americans don't bounce along with them? we have two people on opposite sides of the spectrum.

you are looking at them there and they're coming up to talk about this, right after this. ♪ turn around ♪ ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female announcer ] fiber one.

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we're just minutes away. ten minutes away from the start of the massive rally in paris. looking at more images there. all the different flags from all the different nations represented in that shot. hundreds of thousands of people maybe up to a million people maybe even more than that expected today for this event. a huge turnout already you can see from these pictures and, again, about ten minutes away from that rally and we'll be going back there once that begins. complete coverage throughout the morning for you. but here now to talk about the economy here in the united states and the big political question of who gets the credit who gets the blame. we get into a place who gets the credit austan goolsbee now a professor at the university of chicago he joins us and james with the american enterprise institute, also a cnbc analyst.

jim, let me start with you. more on the right here and put the basic question to you. unemployment is down to 5.6% and job creation on the rise. very positive and very encouraging numbers. i imagine if a republican had been elected in 2012 we'll hear how the republicans turn the economy around and did president obama get credit for this. >> a republican was not elected in 2012 and we're still hearing how the republicans are responsible for it. i'm sure that makes a difference. will people in 2016 credit obama's policies for an economy assuming it's still unemployment continues to drop and continue to add jobs. gop continues to grow. will they give the obama policies followed by hillary clinton or other nominee the credit? i don't know. it took a long time for the economy to turn around. remember back in the '80s the economy turned around. it took a long time for the economy to turn around here in the 2000s.

listen if i was going to give someone credit. listen, i would give the fed credit. bond buying policies and the massive monetary expansion. you know, yellen enen is not up for election and bernanke. >> austan it sounds like you have something to say to that. doesn't sound like he has something to say. we have audio problems. it was my producer telling me we couldn't go to austan. >> what austan goolsbee would say. listen obama had a stimulus and republicans were against it. how come we're not giving the stimulus any credit. the reason we're not giving the stimulus any credit is because the stimulus ended back in 2011 when the economy wasn't doing particularly well and what big new thing happened since then. >> now i'm being told austan is back. so james is bringing up the issue now of the stimulus and the timing of this and basically saying, look the first thing

president obama got through in 2009 was the stimulus. what has he gotten through on a scale in the last few years. if it took this long does he deserve that much credit? >> let's remember how this is going to work. people are going to go in 2016 and a large mass of people who are not following the exact policy fights and what was the date that the dodd frank legislation was passed. they're going to go out and say, i'm feeling better than i was four years ago, eight years ago? do i think the democrats are doing a good job and if the economy is doing well more people who think that. if the economy is not doing well, there will be fewer. now, it's not unlike you saw mitch mcconnell this past week as jimmy said, going out and trying to take credit. well really it was the mcconnell economy. and that same thing happened under bill clinton. newt gingrich came out as the economy began getting better and started saying no no it's because the republicans won in 1994, but i would simply point

out, we don't remember it as the gingrich economy. and they're not going to remember it as the mitch mcconnell economy. >> jim, go ahead. >> i was going to say, listen. austan makes some good points. whoever is the president they get a lot of credit or blame for the economy. but i wonder rather than thinking are we better off now than we were four years ago or eight years ago, gee, is my family better off four years from now or eight years from now? is the u.s. better positioned to grow in the future than it was maybe eight years ago? what is going on with upward mobility. what is going on with stagnation? can we finance all our entitlement programs? those are open questions that i think 2016 is about. >> it does at a more basic level, fair or not, it's like a manager in baseball. like maybe the team was 95-67 because you are a good manager or good players. either way you get credit. in 2016 these trend lines

continue democrats do stand to get a pretty big wind fall don't they? >> i wonder, do we care about the quality? we are creating a lot of new jobs. but, still, all i've heard is that for the past 30 years the economy has been terrible because wages haven't gone up. now, all of a sudden wages aren't going up but, gee the economy is pretty good. i thought that was important. are people's living standards rising? are their incomes going up? that remains a huge problem. >> i think that's true. >> austan if we think there is a republican up there, what is the case from democrats of saying, hey, american voter after eight years, this is the most important thing that we have done. these are the most important things we have done to put the economy in a better position. what is the message? >> it is a good question. i think this is correct. we shouldn't look at this as this is the best boom that we've ever had. because it isn't. it's a solid recovery. we are better off than we were four years aaago.

still weak spots in the economy and i fear that people may get too far ahead of themselves thinking, oh, yes, it will be like the year 1999 when the stock market was up 35% and growth was tremendous. i think we have a solid progress and the issues of a 2016 election election, i think, are probably going to be about middle class income growth and the rising standard of living. i think democrats are going to say here are the things we've done. we've reregulated wall street. we avoided the depression. we put ourselves back on a path where at least the economy is growing in a lot of industries like manufacturing and we're trying to rebuild, training to get people's incomes up and they're probably going to contrast with what the republicans are proposing. well, do you think we would have been better off doing what the republicans are saying we should do now, which is go slash investments and a whole bunch of

things and let a bunch of industries go under and promote you xwoiknow, the policies they've been promoting. i think it will be a good election because if the economy is growing at a moderate to positive pace it will probably be a close contest. >> obviously, the incumbent party wants the political science rule is better for the incoming party. but, obviously, a lot of time between now and then. a debate that will continue to evolve. thank you to austan goolsbee and james with aei, appreciate the time this morning. another full hour of news and politics ahead. that big paris rally under way any moment now. some final shots there. more on the other side of this. stay with us. double wings, extra ranch. we need to do something different. callahan's? ehh, i mean get away. like away away. road trip? double wings, extra ranch.

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thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. right now at the top of the hour, a massive crowd, possibly a million people possibly more even. starting a show of unity, this in paris. also checking in on some of the many stories here at home including a fund deep dive into the political photo-op is morphing for the digital age. leaders are showing to show solidarity with the french people. the french president is expected to stand with his former rival nicolas sarkozy. telling the nation friday unity is our best weapon. in fact 81% of the french public survey tell a paris newspaper they are ready to come pay respects. a jewish newspaper in humburg was the target of an arson

attack this morning. nobody was hurt in that incident either. ballistics have now linked one of the paris gunmen to another shooting and his girlfriend who is the subject of a manhunt are in syria. ron allen is live at that rally, just getting under way any minute now. ron, take it away. just set the scene for us over there. >> well steve, this rally has been going on for a couple of hours. if you look at it from the broader perspective, it's going on for several days. there are literally tens of thousands of people gathered in the square here behind me that you can see and this is just the beginnings of it. been out here since early in the morning and people from all across the city and all across the country. you quoted that poll that say 80% of the people from france want to join. join this march to show unity and solidarity. there are leaders from all over the world, at least 50 of them here gathered as well. including earerric holder and leaders from europe and the middle east and africa all here

trying to send the same message that they will not be intimidated by terrorism and stand with the french people and that this attack that has taken the lives of 17 french people so far, french citizens so far will just not be acceptable. there was a meeting this morning about anti-terrorism tactics and pledges to move forward on new initiatives. but the main aspect of today is to hear the voices of the people. the voices of the people who are gathered here and across paris. the march route is about two miles. they'll head off in this direction to the gnashand all morning we've been hearing chants of i am charlie, we are charlie. liberation. you can see behind me perhaps, flags from all over the world here. those marchers and demonstrators have taken over the center of that huge monument there. they have been up there singing and dancing and chanting. flags from turkey israel a woman here with a hat from columbia and a man behind me with a flag on his hat from

haiti. a just a complete united nations show of support here. no one will know for sure but the message will be sent loud and clear that this country is trying to be united. trying, i say, because there are deep divisions here that have come in broad relief since the attacks. certainly the jewish community here feels undersiege and the muslim community feels blamed for what is happening and perhaps a dozen or more attacks reported and minor incidents, somewhat minor incidents that have taken lives in the muslim communities and we know of course, the horror that happened in the jewish community, the attack, the siege, the hostage taking that supermarket several days ago, that took the lives of at least four people. the families of those four victims, the jewish families will lead the march along with the president of france and others. again, just a tremendous show of unity and the crowd building. just tremendous enthusiasm unlike anything they're saying that france is the capital of the world today. a historic and unprecedented

gathering of people here in the center of paris. steve, back to you. >> nbc news ron allen live at that rally. as you can see there, it lockoks like they're ready to start that march any second now. an amazing gathering. live pictures from paris are, obvious obviously, hugely encouraging. will be no easy task. france is far right party, the national front is already blasting the french government for not inviting them today. there is no longer national unity. it has disappeared because of their actions. it dates back to france's colonel past where massive riots in 2005 and 2007 the french muslims that feel segregated there. several mosques have been hit with bullets or small explosives in the wake of this week's attacks. france has also seen an uptick in anti-semitism in recent

years. we'll talk now about whether today's show of solidarity will have a lasting impact and here to discuss that is roger cohen who served as the correspondent the author of "girl from street" with with and also joined by charlie dent overseeing homeland security. let me just start with you. you're looking at them with the rest of us. can this giant gathering today do anything to overcome those divisions we're talking about in france? what is your reeaction to that? >> well first of all, steve, wonderful to see such unity and to see europe united the french united and in the city of enlightenment the city that symbolizes freedom. there is no question as we know from post-9/11, that unity can fray very quickly. the correspondents that exist in france are enormous. the largest muslim community in

europe. the largest jewish community in europe and the guys the kouachi brothers began with exclusion. and there is prejudice and alienation that needs to be addressed and that requires dialogue. >> how does that get addressed is the question. >> i think the leaders of the jewish community and the leaders of the muslim community in france need to speak out and there needs to be dialogue. i don't know if pope france can play a role in bringing people together. right now in paris, you have the leader of the palestinian authority. wouldn't it be amazing if they shook hands just to demonstrate unity? just to demonstrate that peace is possible. wouldn't that be an incredible gesture? these are the kind of gestures, steve, that i think can stimulate dialogue. >> this is a far right nationalest party but gaining a

lot of strength in the last year. they have not been invited to participate in this today. does that hurt the effort you're talking about? >> i think it probably does hurt it. you know the backdrop in europe steve, that makes the situation more dangerous and more combustible is the fact that europe has been in a long depression. high unemployment and a sense of frustration and anger and a tendency to look for a scapegoat that always happens in these situations. the national party has built on that. i think to deliberatery exclude them and say you're not invited is unhelpful. if there had been members and supporters in the national front that wanted to take part in the demonstration, i personally have nothing against that. the french need to work very hard at examining every aspect of their society and ways in which prejudice. you get in a cab in france and first thing you're likely to hear is against the muslim population. people need to think about what

they say and leaders of the muslim community in europe need to examine what is happening within the religion and find ways to denounce those who hijacked the reledges in the name of a murderous ideology. >> congressman, let me bring you into this. we have the pictures up on the screen. you are taking the images in with the rest of us. what is your reaction to what you see unfolding in france this morning? >> i'm pleased to see the french people coming together and the aftermath of this horrible terrorist attack. but i think there is a bigger issue that we have to be concerned about in the u.s. from our own security standpoint it is this. a real vulnerability for the united states is the european citizens. those european citizens can travel into the united states on a visa waver program. that makes us somewhat vulnerable. we must rely on our european partners to help us identify those who have these radical tendencies. we know somewhere around 3,000 europeans have joined the fight in syria. we believe about 150 americans

have joined the fight in syria. it's essential that we keep eyes on these bad actors not just the people who have gone to syria. you don't have to go to syria to become a terrorist, but particularly those individuals we have to keep an eye on them. frankly, i'm pleased to watch the people in france speaking out today. i mean this was an attack on freedom of expression and freedom generally and, sadly, we've seen these attacks before. we saw the danish cartoonist who had the prophet mohammed with rockets coming out of his turbine. so, we have had to endure these types of assaults on our freedoms by this fanatical ideology and i think it's important for us now to figure out how we're going to confront these type of actors going forward. al qaeda and other terrorist groups, isis i believe they are going to try to identify more soft targets like we've seen here at france at charlie hebdo and at the kosher market.

so, i think we have to be much more vigilant about these types of attacks that are going to be directed at soft targets that are going to be much harder for us to prevent. we have to have eyes on them. >> in terms of the domestic front. a little bit of news this morning. the white house announcing that on february 18th they're going to convene a summit on counterering violent extremism. this in the wake of the attacks in paris and several other recent attacks and the white house pointing out this morning that they had in place a program, a plan to prevent violent extremism domestically since 2011. you're talking about the challenges you're facing now, congressman. how prepared todo you think we are from stopping something like this from happening here? >> there was a time that i thought the united states that the american muslim population was much less susceptible torad kl radical

radical. europeans don't do a very good job of migrating their muslim populations and the u.s. jihad jane was my constituent. became radicalized over the internet. she was operationally sloppy. i'm very concerned about what we can do to counter these kind of attacks. let's face it the american born clearic who was operating out of yemen. he was putting out how-to manuals and inspire and try to teach people around the world how to conduct a terror attack in english. i am concerned. we have pockets in our own country. we have seen instances and we're concerned about folks operating out of minneapolis. we had those americans out of virginia who are ethnic pakistani who are also becoming radicalized and we took them down before they became operational. i'm anxious to see what the white house will say on this subject. we'll have to work together on this. i'm not convinced this is an

easy task. >> roger, let me ask you your thoughts on that. the divisions in france and the differences between the united states and france. how vulnerable we are to something like this. >> i think one good thing about this in a way, steve, if there is anything good is that europeans have tended to underestimate the threat. they tend to say, the americans are exaggerating. they have been impacted by 9/11. the europeans are conscious of the failures that have happened up to now and what the congressman is saying is exactly right. there has to be much stronger intelligence operation and a realization that there are thousands of people drifting off, young muslims who are alienated whether here or over in europe drifting off to syria and iraq and then when they come back it's a very fluid situation. typical to handle. but the danger at this point is more than evident. >> we found out so strajicallytragically

this week. again, that rally now under way. you're looking at live pictures from there. we'll squeeze in a break here. when we come back on the other side, rowan, that's later in the show we'll have more from france from that rally, images throughout the show and more reports in the next hour. stay with us. the nissan rogue, with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is your imagination.

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couple minutes ago ron allen described paris this hour the capital of the world. based on these pictures it sounds like he's right. the paris rally, as you can see, under way right now. the crowd estimates for this thing we heard up to a million people. certainly hundreds of thousands, probably over half a million and that could be reaching a million people. we'll be returning for ronan farrop's impression. he's on the ground there. bring it back to our panel to

catch up on the other stories buzzing this morning. susie king and emily tishe sussman. so, i have in my hand here a bunch of different headlines that are making news in the united states. i thought we'd go through some of these. what people are talking about in some parts of the country this morning. "des moines register" news out of iowa always that first state and voted to preserve the straw poll. 16-0 was the vote. they held it before every presidential election since 1980. it is going to be this august. the question on this one always does it matter? michele bachmann wob the last straw poll and not a great barometer and they always the campaign buy up tickets to this thing and sort of is a -- >> boo, boo, boo. >> the romney gave the romney people headaches, right? >> we won it in 2008. but i was quoted this week in the "des moines register" on

this issue. they should be happy with their first in the nation status and they should not be extorting money. it's absurd the amount of money these candidates are forced to spend to win something that is so meaningless. >> that's the thing i wondered. so meaningless they show up this time. >> dr. ben kerson is very happy. >> i predict that he will not win and will be less happy after the caucus. >> but these are his people. no, i could see. >> generate some buzz. in a field as big as this you'll have candidates outside of the main stream let's say, who are going to be eager to get in there. >> my advice to republican candidates just say no. >> they all stay away and then there is the one that says they're staying away i can get the headlines. that's the other thing. maybe. >> it is win, win. it is money in the door. it is more hand shaking, get a

little bump in the news. why would i ever give this up? >> the governor there has been very outspoken against it. >> i could see it too. his influence would be higher if they don't have it. all sorts of agendas here. couple other things making headlines. here's one, oh, actually i'm told now so we're showing you live on the screen here. going back to the rally in paris. david cameron, the british prime minister french president and he's showing unity with. angela merkel, she eis there, as well. a lot of major european leaders, major world leaders as you can see in this shot right now gathering. they're going to be leading this march in paris taking a live look there. there you can see angela merkel in the middle of the screen. see if i can pick out any

others. interesting gathering. when you see sarkozy gathered together like that the idea of unity really starts to hit home a little bit. those are two pretty fierce rivals in french politics. actually we'll stay on this shot a little bit just to watch this crowd take shape, but this is an interesting, an interesting scene right now. we're talking about the importance of unity and look what we have gathered here right now. >> yeah, i mean this is really historic to have all these people together. i think it does, it does send a great message that especially to have the inclusion of muslim leaders there that this, that nobody really, the leaders do not believe that this is main stream. this is main stream muslim culture. i think that is incredibly important. >> it's just seeing who else we can pick out in the shot here right now. obviously, this is getting going any minute right now. but also it leads to the question, we were asking this in the last segment about what will come after this because the

unity rally is an important thing and a powerful statement, but the question is does that translate into any real change you know in france and in europe and in the world. >> what is really interesting is that this crisis is also coming at a point in which the way we usually talk about european unity through the currency unit. through european union in which that is facing its own crisis and sort of leading to questions about how, what kind of financial, as well as sort of political cooperation is possible and it has become clear that regardless of what happens with you and the currency, that there is going to need to be a coordinated effort. >> some of the other leaders you might be seeing in the shot right there. you can see in the middle of the screen mahmoud abbas, benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister of israel. i believe in the shot right now and i believe we saw him a second ago. so, some major world leaders you can see all gathering in one place right there to lead that march, which should be beginning any second now. that rally sort of under way

around them. you're looking up to a million people potentially out in the streets today for this. so just a major turnout. we have to squeeze a break in here. but, obviously, much more from paris and much more from this rally as we continue on this show and ronan farrow is in the midst of that crowd and he'll be here to tell us all about that and, obviously, more from the world of politics as well. we'll be back after this. and i get a lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can. ♪ ♪

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all right. taking you back to paris now. live right now. that march about, as we say, you could see images there. from moments ago. i think that march beginning. all those world leaders led by the president of france angela merkel and benjamin netanyahu, david cameron, mahmoud abbas. all gathered in one place and going to lead a very large crowd. that formal rally getting under way right now in paris.

ronan farrow is standing by on the scene. ronan, can you tell us what's going on right now. what you're seeing. >> steve, as you mentioned the world leaders just kicked off this march and people are now on the move as you reported. this is an unprecedented moment steve. we're hearing more than a million people. we may never get a firm estimate on that but if true, that is the largest demonstration in france since france was liberated from the nazis. but in terms of demonstrations, this is it. it's also more multi-cultural than anything we've seen in terms of political demonstrations. behind me you can see flags on the monument here. flags ranging from algeria to morocco to all over the world. even the individuals behind me. the gentleman here is from iran we've got people from everywhere here and from all different walks of life. steve, it's so significant to

see that. within french society. i made my way from one end of the crowd to the other. it's not sentiment in word. it's inaction as people literally join arms here. >> we're looking at shots, again, of the world leaders gathering. they're marching and sort of starting and stopping right now. that march is under way. ronan, talking about all the flags and that sort of international display there. all the different countries represented in their colors. what is your sense on that? are these people who have come from around the world to be here today. french people french citizens showing off their sort of incesteral routes. has this crowd come from across europe? >> it is indeed predominantly french here. people who have come from all over the world and certainly all over europe to experience this moment. a destination event. we spoke to people who just came

here for this several hour period who came from several countries away even to be here for these few hours. people understand that this is a big moment. this is a big moment to push back and a lot of the feelings of insecurity and the feelings of disharmony that have -- >> looking at the live shots now. that march is moving once again. they seem to be starting and stopping. ronan, where are they going to and where they are coming from and where they are going to? >> the march starts right here and it will go across the city along three different routes. we're not sure of those routes the world leaders are going to take. that is for security reasons. one route, the northern most one that branches off slightly. we'll keep you posted on where exactly hollande ends up going. as all of this is happening, we're getting more and more breaking news about the actual security situation here and about the investigation into the attacks.

of course, you've been following this news that bullet casings have revealed that a shooter behind a random attack several days before the charlie hebdo, i'm sorry, exactly 24 hours before the charlie hebdo incident where it was related to the supermarket shooting. people in the crowd that i was talking to were reacting to that when they could get cell phone service. of course, with a million people here some don't have service at all. the other big piece of news that people are reacting to is this that hayat boumeddine may have left the country. >> what are you hearing from people on the street. you mentioned the security failure and the status of the potential accomplice on people's minds. what else are you hearing from

them? >> one big theme, of course is that feeling of ethnic religious disharmony and the desire to move past that. but i spent time all through today and the last several days in various minority communities. today we were in jewish neighborhoods talking to people in that community and there are still a lot of fears going into this big moment of trying to join arms and move past those fears. jewish shops in some of those predominantly jewish neighborhoods locking their doors and looking pususpiciously when customers arrive fearing for their lives in some cases because there have been anti antisimitic attacks. all through the clouds not just charlie signs but i am muslim signs. >> i wonder as we are continuing to look at those pictures of the leaders now marching and, again, they are led by the french president there, his old political rival and you have

netanyahu in there and mahmoud abbas. >> you mentioned the french president. extraordinary measures to protect the world leaders. abbas and netanyahu here at the same time and eric holder is here from the u.s. all of those leaders have their own security details, as well as of course the considerable security. we're hearing more than 5,000 security personnel right here looking down on all of this. snipers on rooftops and overt officers both police and military. this place is really really wired for security. and still a lot of people i talked to in this crowd aren't convinced that it's enough. this is a porous situation. people are allowed to enter and they're not being searched. the fact that someone could bring in a weapon and open fire is very much on the minds of people i've talked to. >> we'll keep running the pictures for everybody the video of that march of those world leaders and those heavily protected world leaders.

susie kim, you wanted to say something. >> no, i just had a question for ronan and a question going forward. in terms of this desire to heal some of these riffs, not sort of antisemitic attacks that have happened as well as the antimuslim sentiment that has risen and that some political parties in france have capitalized upon i'm wondering what folks' ideas really are in terms of how to move forward with that kind of agenda. what concrete steps other than these kind of symbolic measures that can actually be taken to begin to move in that direction to actually reform things in france. >> how about that ronan. go ahead. >> you bring up a tremendously important point there. there aren't concrete proposals that will get at broader immigration policies and broader social policies that make many of these groups feel disenfranchised. >> we, yeah sorry, it sounds

like ronan's audio might have cut out there. we'll get him back as fast as we can. we'll get a quick break and fix that audio issue. as you can see, again, world leaders marching in paris right now. big crowds all around and heavy security all around him, obviously. going to take a quick break and try to get ronan farrow back and come right back to this rally right after this. ck. ♪ there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3...2...1... are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable.

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discover card. how can i help you? oh, you're real? you know i'm real! at discover, we're always here to talk. good, 'cause i don't have time for machines. some companies just don't appreciate the power of conversation! you know, i like you! i like you too! at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card and talk to a real person. we are back again, looking live at that march. those world leaders, international leaders and eric holder from the united states is there. a big crowd of some very influential people now marching through paris in a sign of unity. one thing you can see if you look closely at the screen there on the left it looks like is benjamin netanyahu, the prime minister of israel. about four people separating him there on the right is mahmoud abbas the head of the palestinian authority. those have more than their share of differences. we can tell you a little bit of news this morning as this is going on. president obama and dh white house announcing today that they have invited international

allies to participate in a security summit on february 18th to prevent violent extremism. a lot of the countries you see represented by these world leaders who are marching right now and being invited by the obama administration to washington a little more than a month from now on a conference on how to prevent what we've seen in paris this week from happening anywhere else. also news this morning, again, related to this march. we have word that the victims, the families of the victims of that kosher grocery store attack in paris, they have decided that their relatives will be buried in israel. that word coming again this morning as netanyahu, the prime minister of israel, among those marching right now in the front row. ronan farrow is live on the scene in paris. ronan, let me ask you about that. watching this on our screens right now. seeing netanyahu and abbas so close together and in a way also so apart.

four people between them. doesn't look like they're looking at each other or anything. but just the power of having those two together and the question is is there potential for them to have some kind of encounter, some kind of exchange for something between them to come during this. >> everyone is watching whether that moment happens and what it looks like. i would just point out the significance of those two being here right now in a week when the deep deep rifts are being felt between jewish puarisians and we heard constant refrain of leaving the country and being afraid to be in the country in some circumstances. shop owners barring their windows and people saying look we feel disenfranchised and we're skeptical as to whether the government is doing enough to protect us. now, at the same time we've seen benjamin netanyahu, come

out very publicly and say israel is a potential home for french people in just that situation. that jewish people here are welcome there. and that comes after two years of more and more jewish french men and women leaving the country. so it's a very very tense situation and exactly the relationship that you just described was described by jewish men and women all over this city and where there are other demonstrations happening to express the same sentiments here. both feeling a lot of the tensions and moving beyond them steve. >> stay with us. we want to keep going back to you as we continue to watch this march. i want to bring in now, roger cohen. he was nice enough to stick around. served as the paper's paris correspondent for several years. roger, maybe i can pick up this issue with you because it is something i have been learning about this week and i wasn't aware of was the increase the sort of very significant increase and ronan was just

talking about this a minute ago in the number leaving the country in recent years for israel. we have this news as we said this morning the victims of the kosher grocery store attack are going to be buried in israel. just tell us a little bit, if you could, the factors are that brought that about. >> i think it is a fairly significant trend, steve. it shouldn't be exaggerated at the same time. still half a million jews in france, but a feeling of being under threat. there was an attack three years ago, as you know in which three jewish children and a rabbi were killed in southern france. and at the same time there's been a very difficult, depressed economic situation in france and the israeli economy has been booming. a double thing going on. the sense of threat of growing threat. of this big muslim population in france or the politics of the middle east. spilling into france. and, so thinking that israel is a more secure place to be and to raise your children and maybe

also that those children given the difference in the two economies would have great opportunities in israel than they might have in france. >> i wonder too, the question of europe itself. and we've seen a number of reports in recent times about a rise of anti-semitism across europe. what is going on with that? >> well it's true. it's happening, steve. it's terrible. and, again it's the politics of the middle east spilling into europe. we saw a wave of attacks as you know in germany where slogans were chanted, once again, in france and else where at the time of the last war in gaza. with its heavy toll in human life. as i mentioned earlier, i do think that with having mahmoud abbas and netanyahu of israel just four yards apart there.

couldn't we get a hand shake? doesn't that mean something? doesn't mean peace tomorrow between israel and palestinian, but no alternative in the end, in my view to a two-state outcome there and that would send a very powerful message. we've also been reminded with the fact that the bodies of the four jewish victims will be transported back to israel. of the reasons for the emergence and more than a century ago. jews needed a homeland. they needed a place where this could not happen where they could not be excluded face threats and not feel they were holy citizens of the countries they lived in. >> again, you're seeing on the right side of your shot there disappearing from the shot right now as the camera pans over. that was israel prime minister netanyahu and then just four people to his left mahmoud abbas, the head of the palestinian authority. that in the middle of the screen right there, david cameron, the british prime minister is there as is eric holder. a little bit of news to tell you

about with eric holder. u.s. attorney general eric holder saying this morning that the united states is "at war with terrorists who commit violent acts." that is the attorney general saying that this morning. again, eric holder representing the united states at this rally today. you can see the french president back to the camera greeting some of the other dignitaries and also just yesterday that the prime minister of france not the president of france but the prime minister of france declaring that his country is at war with radical islam. ronan farrow if i can bring you back into this. we don't see him, at least i don't think we see him in the shot right now. tell us about his role over there today. >> it's critical that he's here. earlier one of your guests asked, what concrete measures are on the table on the policy side to try to fix some of those deep rifts within france. the real answer is there aren't concrete proposals on that front. where there are concrete

proposals coming to the floor, on counterterrorism and security and holder's is deeply significant on that set of issues. we don't yet know what is exactly being contemplated behind closed doors, but as you mentioned, a security conference and you can bet that there is a lot of elevated intelligence sharing going on after the last week of news. now, one thing that is very significant here is just how resource intensive it is to fight the kind of terrorism that led to the charlie hebdo attacks. these sleeper cells that could activate anywhere where individuals may have had brushes with the justice system but not a compelling enough case to keep them behind bars. it takes a tremendous amount of man power to monitor those individuals. that's one thing we heard when we talked to the judge who first imprisoned, he said, i have to let him out after that initial imprisonment and he felt he let him out more radicalized and there simply wasn't enough man power within the system. not enough tools at the disposal of judges like himself to keep

monitoring that individual. that is a challenge that all nations of the world will have to address. >> again, you are seeing the shots right there of the world leaders. i'll bring the panel back here in new york to talk about this for a second. where we've been focused. the camera shots on the world leaders marching and, basically, a million people. up to a million people who are around them and i wonder just as americans looking at this from the united states and watching this, obviously, a lot of thoughts go through people's minds. very sad for what happened here this week. everybody is probably inspired by the show of unity, but i think as americans we also end up ultimately thinking could something like this that we just saw in paris and in france be happening or happen potentially in the united states. how do you guys feel about that? >> of course it could happen. it could happen anywhere. what the american people are looking for is concrete solutions. they're looking for leadership and, you know, it's a difficult balancing act because in america, you know we have this

issue of civil liberties and religious freedom and butting right up against a group of people that under the umbrella of their faith, you know choose to terrorize people. so how do you strike that balance where, you know you protect the constitution but also you hold people accountable and prevent these things from happening. it's a very very difficult place to find yourself. i think that you know tomorrow, the place that these leaders are going to have to find themselves is what do we do to protect our citizens? >> i think we're going to go live back over to paris right now. my producer we have a correspondent we're going to go to right now? just checking on this. yeah okay. sorry. just one of those things we're doing live coverage here folks. go back to ronan farrow and standing by with people who are attending the rally. >> that's right. i want to give you a recap of where we are in this historic

presidential rally. cell reception has drowned out and our satellite signal has been coming and going for this very interview. people are here for all walks of life and just been in the heart of this crowd, the feeling is very warm. people are trying to get into the spirit of unity. the tiletle of the rally. so you can hear the feeling here. there's an air of exuberance. now, sir, where did you come from to come here today? >> i live in paris with my family. >> what is your name sir? >> so tell me what it means to you to be here right now? >> well i came as a citizen, as many people here just to say stop the violence and let's keep peace and quietness for all the people in france whether they're

foreigners or french born people, you know. >> what would you like to see change coming out of this moment? >> well i think that the leaders. we understand that all the people want peace and stop the violence that we don't want in france for now many years. so, stop violence. >> do you have a mesage for any particular world leader in attendance here today for hollande. >> what people say during this march and i think and i hope after the march. >> thank you so much, sir, for your time. just one of the many voices in this crowd that has echoed that very sentiment of we want peace, we want to come together in this time of tremendous tension and strife within french society. that is the centum being echoed all around europe. as you can see from all the flagsflag s behind me they're here living

out the desire behind it. >> thanks again for that. i'm also being told now that chatman bell who is alsosecond. chapman bell, who is also on the scene, can you tell us where you are and what you're seeing right now. >> yes, steve, i'm at the end of the march where this march is due to end. it is right in front of me but it is already filled with thousands of people who just made their way here before the march officially started. behind me you see the people coming from the beginning of the march, which is where ronan just was. it will take some time. they're expecting about a million people to attend this unity march. there are three different routes from the start that people can take. the dignitaries are taking one route, and there is another

street parallel. there is so many people they had to split it three ways. you have seen the same message ere where for days. there is memorials all across france, at the scenes of these incidents. there is memorials of slowersflowers and signs. this is the day it comes together, the day of unity. when people from all over france are here in attendance to unify and be in solidarity to say we are not with these horrible crimes. >> thanks for that, chapman,.

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pup: right here, silly! [laughter] bulldog: that tickles! mattress discounters' year end clearance sale ends soon. ♪ mattress discounters ♪ . nearing 10:00 a.m. here on the east coast of the united states. well into the afternoon, almost 4:00 in paris now. a large group, leaders leading a million people in the march. it will be awhile before we have a final number. the french president leading the way. eric holder from the united states is there. benjamin netanyahu is there.

abas is there. all eyes on him and netanyahu to see if there is any communication. we're going to continue to keep an eye on it here at msnbc. we're going to cut off our coverage right now for melissa harris-perry.

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pneumonia rouls world leaders are leading the march. it is meant as a show of french solidarity because of an atax that left many dead. we go now live to richard engle who is on the ground live in paris. >> yes, there is hundreds of thousands of people in this area. we just returned to this position where we are now, we have been walking around and i can tell you we almost didn't make it back here. it took us about an hour to go just a few blocks because you see the large crowds where i am now, but in the next square and