[ laughter ] >> congressman, good luck. appreciate your time tonight. jim mcdermott thanks. >> see you next week ed. reverent al sharpton begins right now. \s. >> good evening, ed. we start with breaking news in the fight against terror on two separate continents. in belgium police killed two terror suspects in a raid to stop what authorities say was an imminent attack on police buildings. in ohio investigators analyzing laptops and cell phones seized from the 20-year-old man accused of plotting to blow up the u.s. capitol. but we tart tonight in belgium. that's where we're seeing another terror plot a new one, foiled. belgian police launched about a dozen raids aimed at terrorists who had come back from fighting in syria. they say they stopped a terror

cell about to launch attacks on a, quote, grand scale. video posted to youtube appears to show the raid as it happened. the shootout happened in a town in eastern part of the country called verviers. two suspects were killed a third injured, so far authorities say these raids are not linked to the attacks in paris, but right now, all of europe is on edge. joining me now is mike at sheehan, former deputy commissioner of counter terrorism for the nypd. and michael kay, retired senior british officer and military

strategist. thank you both for being here. so michael sheehan, let me start with you. the belgian terror raids targeted jihadists who come back from fighting with isis in syria. this is something that people have been worried about for a while, am i right? >> reverend al, they've been actually worried about foreign fighter coming back from the iraq theater since around 2004 this is starting to unfold for the nightmare that people have been predicting for a long time. one attack from -- actually we're not even sure of the full connections as of now. this is a nightmare scenario that we'll have to see the depth, and whether we're able to sustain these types of attacks. people have been predicting these types of things since 2004. we'll see if this is the beginning of a wave of attacks

or a short spurt. >> michael kay, the raids targeted extremists who had been to syria, 3,000 westerners are fighting in syria, 250 of them are from belgium. how do you do this? >> the numbers themselves pose a massive problem. one of the big issues we have now, rev, is the way that the intelligence community and security forces what we saw was this very reactive response. it was a dynamic situation, as we know they go out 30 miles outside of paris, and it was a very fluid situation. that then put the intelligence services and security forces on a heightened alert. they've to switch from a reactive to a proactive posture. >> because of what happened with

"charlie hebdo" in paris? >> that means logistically that means a lot more funding, resource and manpower. that has a huge logistical tail in terms of sustaining that. so i think the sticky situation is this posturing of forces what we are seeing is going to a more proactive start. so we're seeing the results of days, weeks and months of intelligence with all coming together post-"charlie hebdo." >> michael, how do you see that they can track these amounts of people to have a prohibitive strike and continue to stop and foil these things before they happen? how is it possible given these numbers? >> reverend al it's a difficult challenge, the number are much

greater than 2004. now we're talking thousands. the good news is when you have a name and that person comes back it's a bit easier to find them and try to track them and see where the cells are. it's not that we're totally in the blind here. however, with those types of numbers, it's going to be very, very difficult. they're going to need aggressive intelligence operations. deploys 10,000 police on the street isn't going to get it done. they're going to need to have investigations, piece by piece with skilled detectives to identify cells, track them as the cells attach to other cells, and have the patience to uncover these people and then the timing to when to take them down. >> now michael kay, i want to raise this to you. this i found very interesting and troubling. reports suggest that one of the paris attackers, coulibaly, who did the kosher supermarket

attack. may have terror connections all over europe. he reportedly spend three days in madrid just to cover the weeks before the attack. the same city his wife used as part of her eye scape route to syria, and police in belgium have arrested a man who they say may have sold ammunition used in the paris terror attacks. this kind of similar travel pattern, similar map is very interesting, if not troubling. >> yeah. al, you are talking about one person here s mike already alluded to the fact that we are talking about thousands as a potential overall problem. we're talking about one person coulibaly. the amount of resources that goes into working out what his trail has been over the last week, the last month, understanding what borders he's crossed, where he has traveled to what his finances and resources are, that takes a lot of time and manpower just to investigate that one person.

i used to operate in baghdad on a nightly basis. we used to go in and target high-value assets insurgents and al qaeda. we were working off intelligence that took months if not year to collate. the other thing is there's a very fine balance between apprehending someone and once you've arrested them and charged them making sure you have enough evidence enough intelligence to make it stick and actually get them convicted. otherwise they're walking the street again. on that note let's turn to the threat after home. 20-year-old chris cornell, who used an assault rifle to gun down employees as they left the building, tonight we are learning more about him and his evolution from high school wrestler to alleged terrorists. cornell is unemployed. he doesn't have a car or driver's father. his father says he converted to

islam about six months ago, but insists his son isn't a terrorist. >> people that really know chris, they know he's a good guy. uh i don't think -- like i said you know i was completely blindsided by this. this came as a complete surprise. you know chris is -- he never leaves the house. he's a mommy's boy. he never showed any -- any signs of any -- any kind of violence or anything. quiet, shy, good kid. police raided the cornell family home yesterday. they took two desktop computers, a laptop and four cell phones. the fbi said cornell claimed to have been in contact with people overseas, and made pro-terror comments on social media. right now he's being held in isolation in an ohio jail.

so how did an an apparently normal teenager allegedly become a would-be terrorist seeking an alliance with isis in a plot to bomb the u.s. capitol. michael kay, does this young man hit the profile of someone who might be drawn to radial violent ideologies? >> i think it's a very, very hard question to assimilate and process. again, going back to the intel jensz conversation you know know this chap has converted to islam versus actually wanting to go and commit an active violence and trying to prove that he was trying to do that whether it be the possessions of arms whether it be looking at e-mails, actually understanding that process and where the law fits in and what you can prosecute that person for and how long you can prosecute them for i think is what the legislation is grappling with at the moment and how we move forward.

>> and we've got have to caution we don't get into islam-phobia or by converting him automatically makes him -- which too many make that connection. >> absolutely. >> michael sheehan, explain house this journey could be possible from where he started to where he's alleged to now? >> it's as simple as being a dumb young kid who was adrift and somehow was attracted to it. actually a very powerful narrative, that these islamists put out. he was attracted to that narrative in syria and iraq to join the brotherhood after he converted to islam very recently. he was drawn sbup that. perhaps a lot of energy with nowhere to expend it. this kid is clearly not a hard-core terrorist. we found him on social media. he made all kinds of mistakes but unfortunately when we went to buy those weapons and ammunition, that made him a

serious threat and he was arrested. >> i want to press you there, michael sheehan. you were in government. as you described this young man, there's got to be millions of young men around the country just like that same background. how do you deal with that? was this the kind of thing that would keep you up at night or planning an attack like is being alleged here? >> yes, the lone wolf was my principal concern back this. it becomes more dangerous when he travels overseas makes connections with a terrorist organization, receives furniture training, either weapons or explosiving like or paris terrorists were. >> normally one will say don't do that might not be as

effective, but some of them have been. they're very hard to find if they don't create a much bigger cell. >> michael kay, you wanted to weigh in? >> i just want to point out, there's no silver bullet on this, rev. it's a multifaceted program which requires a multilayered approach. we have to look at the disenfranchisement of young individuals like this guy, and how that occurs. it toxic preaches through hate clerics? through media chat rooms? is it due to socioeconomic problems? >> is it all of the above? >> absolutely. >> we need to take them bit by bit and slowly eat away at what we think is producing the problem. there's no short-term solution. it's not a silver bullet and the one thing i would like we've

spent try yos. i would suggest taking some of that budget to actually address this at the root cause. i'm going to have to leave it there. michael sheehan and michael kay, thank you both for your time tonight. coming up a big announcement for the republican best known for this ad about castrating hogs. >> i'm joni ernst. i grew up castrating hogs on an iowa farm so when i get to washington, i'll know how to cut pork. we'll tell you what she'll be doing while the president is giving his state of the union. also if you liked the gop's presidential field in 2012, you'll love what they're cooking up for 2016. it's deja vu all over again, with a twist.

plus the news from the academy nominations. we'll talk about all the surprises and the snubs, from the oscars. stay with us. ♪ ♪ with the incredible fuel efficiency of 38 mpg highway... ♪ ...you can feel like royalty in the nissan altima. ♪ now get great offers on the 38 mpg highway nissan altima.

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our social community is on fire about the oscar nominations, controversy, controversy, a snub for actors in the civil rights film "selma" and a major lack of diversity. we'll have much more on this ahead. but first please keep the conversation going on our facebook page or tweet us at "politics nation."

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developing today, reps just announced their pick to respond to president obama's state of the union address next week. it says everything about the party. they made the announcement during the big gop retreat. they're going with newly elected iowa senator joni ernst. you may remember here from this ad. >> i grew up castrating hogs on an iowa farm. so when i get to washington i'll know how to cut pork. washington is full of big spenders. let's make them squeal. when she's not busy shooting

color of ads, she is busy with an aend fa inclusion abortion rights being attacked abolishes the department of education and the epa, and opposing the federal minimum wage. don't forget -- impeachment. >> absolutely. he is overstepping his bounds. i do think that yes, he should face thor repercussions. whether that's removal from office whether that's impeachment, but as a u.s. senator, absolutely. as a u.s. senator, though we have to push that issue. he las become a dictator. >> fighting the president on minimum wage and flirting with impeachment. a perfect choice to represent a party that claims it wants to show it can govern, but is still obsessing over the same old losing right-wing battles. >> our challenge, our

opportunity is to pass a common-sense solutions. the solutions are, to replace it -- >> they rode buses to their retreat in hershey, pennsylvania but they're still searching for the direction to a winning agenda. joining me now is congressman emanuel cleaver, democrat from missouri thank you for being here congressman. >> good to be with you, reverend. >> congressman, the gop has gathered in the sweetest place on earth, hershey, pennsylvania. why does the agenda still sound so bitter to me? >> well because there are no new ideas coming from the retreat. there's nothing we have heard so far coming from the redegree that would suggest they are going to come back to washington and redirect their energies towards accommodating the hopes and dreams of the american public. it's still more anti they're

still talking about repealing obamacare. i'm assuming that the voters out there understand that they can't repeal it. it's not going to happen, but they continue to talk about it. and they're talking about repealing his executive orders. so it's not -- there's nothing new happening in hershey, pennsylvania. >> that's what i want to ask you, when you say there's nothing new happening, what do you expect will come out of the this retreat? or is this just the same old same old from the republicans? >> well i think a small minority of them will speak out all through this retreat about the fact that they have not been conservative enough. so far they've been able to hold a party back those who have wanted to go and try to compromise. i think you're going to find more anti-obama rhetoric coming out of retreat, and that's unfortunate. i think -- i will be stunned, and i hope the rest of the world will be stunned, too.

if from this retreat they say we have a proposal to figure out a new way to go to the moon whatever, something that's new, dramatic, and helpful to the american public. i want them to do that because they have the majority. i don't think it's going to happen. >> now, congressman, one u.s. senator of the republican party who's skipping the retreat is rand paul. but he's still making headlines. here's what he said about people on disability. listen to this. now, the inspector general, congressman, found that disability fraud was less than 1% -- less than 1% not 50%. i mean to your knowledge, did

republicans commission a report that the rest of us don't know about? >> no but i think what they like to do is say the same thing over and over even though it's erroneous. they say the same thing about the s.n.a.p. program. the fraud in the food or s.n.a.p. program is until 3%. it's the same deal but they will continue to talk about fraud, widespread fraud. it doesn't exist, but i do think it appeals to a certain segment of their base. it gets them riled up and it -- it provides them frankly, with a base that is so ridge i had that even when they want to compromise they can't. the old story is if you say it long enough some people will believe it long enough and strong enough. >> let me go to the president. he's been running out his state of the union platform expected to champion his economic

policies, includes promoting homeowner, free community college, expanded broadband high-speed internet paid sick leave. will republicans really fight the president and democrats on all of this? >> well here's the deal. many of those proposals that the president will roll out are proposals that the american public supports so we will know fairly soon whether or not there is reform after the retreat, and by that i mean if those issues end up on the floor in the house and the senate they will pass. all of those issues you just laid out, reverend they will pass. so the test will come if whether or not boehner and mcconnell will allow legislation to come to the floor. if they do i'll be happy, the world will probably celebrate, but in the past anything that was going to pass they wouldn't bring it to the floor.

>> congressman, thank you for your time tonight. >> good to be with glue coming up mitt romney's 2012 loss left the party vowing change. you won't believe where he will be tomorrow night. and the oscars nominations controversy. why was the civil rights movie "selma" overlooked? please stay with us. [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart.

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we start's tonight gotcha with a little different, with a clip from the 1980s classic "ferris buehler's day off". >> does anyone know what vice president bush called this in 1980? anyone? something d-o-o economics? voodoo economics. >> voodoo economics, the idea championed by ronald reagan. that you can cut taxes for the

rich and the it never has worked and the state of kansas just proved it. he spent his first term slashing taxes for the rich promising it would lead to boomtowns for everyone else. the state's budget deficit is projected at -- 2013 is the average kansasen earned $4.43 less per week than before the tax cuts went into effect. now he's finally admitted

it a total flip-flop. we're done here right? we can say good-bye and adios to this failed republican experiment? the gop will finally shake off the trick many-down spell cast by ronald reagan over three decades ago. no they're bringing voodoo economics to congress so the magical cuts look better for the economy, basically cooking the books. did the republicans thing we wouldn't voodoo. only an illusion but nice try, we gotcha. eturn with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points.

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>> we have done a lousy job of branding and marketing who we are. i believe our primary process is way too long. i think we had way too many debates with the candidates slicing and dyson each other. i think they had to wait too long to get to the convention. >> and reince priebus today is rolling out these changes at their winter meeting in san diego. announcing the 2016 republican convention will be in mid july about a month earlier than normal, and they're scaling back debate. so there will be fewer republican on republican attacks, but if they're going for change it's surprising to see who is headlines. mitt romney, yes, the guy who sparked that reboot and autopsy will be front and center tomorrow night. he was added to the schedule earlier this week as rumors fly about a third run for president. interesting for a committee that

said this after the election -- >> focus groups described our party as narrow-minded, out of touch, and, quote, stuffy old men. the perception that we're the party of the rich unfortunately continues to grow. >> for a lot of people that perception is still there, and so is mitt romney. so why would the rnc agree to do this? and how might it play out? joining me now are msnbc's casey hunt and former pennsylvania governor and dnc chairman ed rendell. thank you both for being here. >> our pleasure rev. >> nice to see you, rev. >> casey you're at the rnc meeting, and just posted this piece, quote, can mitt romney rally the support of his party in time for 2016? what's the mood like out there.

does it seem like he could rally that support? >> they're certainly trying reverend. he sort of core supporters the people who have been around him for years and would form of center of any romney campaign, they're making calls, they're talking to donors doing their best to sort of round up as much support if you can. if you get a ring or two out from that immediate circle you start to hear a lot of skepticism. a lot of them people were already thinking about who they would jump on board that wasn't romney. you had a passel of conservative challengers on the other side and the establishment had really only one horse to choose from. we're looking at mid romney jeb bush, chris christie potential scott walker, even rick perry, a all those people who potential draw support. i've encountered a lot of skepticism about whether or not this is a good idea that even

though people seem nostalgic for mitt romney because of the way president obama has handled crisis after crisis that it might not extend to them thinking that he's the best short for them to pick in 2016. >> governor what's your take on this? >> well my take is that kasie is right, the establishment is very worried, but mitt romney running number one in the polls. maybe that's name recognition, but there's a lot of registered republicans who like mitt romney still and think he deserved another chance and he upsets the applecart of having won the establishment candidate to go against three or four right wing tea party candidates. it may throw the nomination to we have those candidates, but mitt romney has every right to run, if he believes in himself, believes he can do the job. the process should be open and mitt romney certainly has the credentials to be a candidate. i think they are concerned, if

he was at 5% in the polls, rev, nobody would be worried at all. they would say go do it mitt. >> kasie, other speaks rnc meeting include dr. ben carson is it wisconsin governor scott walker, and soon to be former texas governor rick perry. what are they saying or expected to say? >> well as you say, reverend we're supposed to hear from walker later tonight. perry is supposed to speak tomorrow. we're expecting from walker to hear more of what you heard from earlier in the week in the state of the state talking about his accomplishments as governor in wisconsin. we heard earlier today from ben carson. he raised a few eyebrows when he compared american patriots in the revolution to isis saying that isis today believes to strongly in their paren pes, they are willing to die for them, and americans are so worried about political correctness, they have lost a sense of that. that raised some eyebrows here

at the meeting a saenz of what being willing to die for some? >> essentially saying americans are concerned about political correctness and don't believe strongly enough in their ideals that they would be willing to die for something. governor, reince priebus is cutting back on the number of debates. you chaired the dnc. here's the thing i think he's trying to avoid. look at this. >> mitt we need for you to release your income tax so the people of this country can see -- >> is he still the most antiimmigrant candidate. >> i think of the four of us yes. he said that government-run topdown medicine is working -- >> i would be glad for to you explain that sort of thing. >> rick, i will tell you what, $10,000?

$10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business, but i'll -- >> okay. romney really got beat up in those debates, governor. you know would limiting these amount of debates, whoever becomes the gop nominee, i think they're trying to minimize that. you chaired a party. is that the strategy here? >> well it's not a bad strategy. the more debates you have the more at times there are for the candidates to cut each other up and the more times for someone to make a student statement, but i don't think it's the number of debates. i think it's the quality of the people in the debates. i go back to the debate they had where there were ten candidates on the platform and they asked them would they say debt reduction where it was 10:1? cuts and spending as opposed to increases in revenue? not one of the ten had the courage to raise their hands and say they would take that or the time that the audience booed the

gay soldier who was in afghanistan, and not one of the ten had the guts to say, hey, wait a second this young man is putting his life on the line for us he deserves our respect. until the candidates get a message that's comparable to the american people, they can limit it to two or three, and they won't do themselves any good. >> kasie hunt and governor rendell, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thanks reverend. >> have a good night. still ahead, controversy over the lack of diversity in today's oscar nominations. that's next. [ narrator ] mama sherman and the legion of super fans. wow! [ narrator ] on a mission to get richard to his campbell's chunky soup. it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. i love it. and mama loves you. ♪ ♪ i've been called a control freak... i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national.

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we all topped this morning and watch as the nomination were given for all kinds of movies that attract different stories in this country. our minds would go from "boyhood" so the civil rights movement with "selma." it was over and over again we saw in the best picture category coming to something that got my attention. take a look at these nominees in the acting categories. best actor features some

incredible talent including bradley cooper and pikal keaton. best actremendous has everyone from reece witherspoon to julianne moore best supporting actor recognized among orders edward norton. and the best supporting actress nominees include emma stone and of course meryl streep her 19th oscar nomination. congratulations to all of the nominees but look at all of them. it's easy to see not one person of color was nominated in these categories. that's a problem. a problem that needs to be addressed. joining me now are trial attorneys seema ire, chris witherspoon and caroline. thank you for being here tonight.

chris, what's your reaction and the reaction from the readers. >> i think you are right, we were shocked. oscars could have made history. they didn't. i was disappointed to see. with that said i love a lot of actors that were nominated it felt like you were watching an award show -- >> i actually haven't gotten over last year oprah not being nominated for "the butler." that perplexes me and now looking at this year not only was she shut out again, but all her co-stars shut out.

>> you're talking about "selma" -- well let me hear from you. >> i just think that what kind of message were they sending? what kind of message was the academy sending by putting this out? tick already by shutting out ava. particularly on martin luther king's birthday what peng do we take away? >> but caroline i think you're assuming they're trying to send a message, maybe they just don't care. >> maybe we got the message. it's important to look up at the makeup of the academy members who voted for the nominees. you remember we're at a time when we just saw the sony e-mails -- >> hacking. >> -- that some of us came out and said the problem in hollywood is there's no diversity. let's look at who the academy members are. the latest data is 2012. oscar voters are 93% white. >> yikes. >> 76% male and have been an

average age of 63 years old. i mean is it time for the academy to be more diverse in membership? should the membership reflect the demographics in the country? >> yes, of course. >> this is really. >> these are old white men. >> absolute joke. >> this is a wake-up call for hollywood. as you watched the president of the academy, a black woman giving these nominations, it was so rare. even as a black woman she had to be shocked to see the consistency of white actoring being named. i think even as you mentioneds the sony e-mail hack, that was a moment to wake up and say hey, something is awry. >> that's why i read it all. male female all of that. >> even a major white actress, angelina jolie was looked over so it's not just black -- >> i think again, rather than -- i take nothing from these

nominees. they did a great job, but when we look at the exclusion, which is normal when you look at the exclusion of who decides the academy, and then you look at who goes to the theaters then it's time to have this conversation and really take some movement -- >> i'm saying why don't we expand this argument and look at what 457d last year? why was "12 years a slave" such a winner? i'm being serious. i'm asking. >> last we're was a banner year. it was a great film. i at the golden globes and the academy awards. this year i don't know what happened. we're all scratching our heads. >> steve mcqueen -- let's talk about 76% of the academy voters are men. 52% of movie-goers in this country are women. it's like c'mon, wake up. you have to include more women and women of color. >> let me show you the nominees. i want it to be clear while we are talking.

30 years from now, chris, 30 years from now, seema and caroline america will be talking about the age of obama, about the age of ferguson and staten island and these will be the nominees in hollywood. imagine people looking at this saying what this couldn't be at that time and the only one making it for best picture was "selma" who did the story of blacks not being allowed to vote? oh, so we're going to duplicate it in hollywood, because they're not voting in the academy, and you can't have a director a female black director at all even nominated? there's something about this that begs for us to deal with this. >> what does it say to young kids when they see they categories and they don't see someone who looks like them? >> do you remember oprah always gives the story when she watched

the academy awards and sydney poitier won, she looked at the television, and accepted if he can do that what can i do? >> whether you're a woman, gay, black or latino when you see somebody that looks like you or has the same as you, it gives you hope. what are we saying for color tonight? >> i have a daughter that has an actress. what are we saying to them? let's go to the institutional problem. there are three ways to become a candidate for membership. if you land an oscar nomination -- now you're landing it from the setup i told you about. there's overwhelmingly old white men. >> okay. >> if you apply and receive a recommendation from two current members, same crowd, or if you earn an endorsement from a membership committee or the academy's staff. how hard is it for a person of color to join a group of older white males if these are the

criteria. >> she said she doesn't even know one person who is part of the academy. there's about over 5,000 people in the academy. no one knows who they are. you very rarely here them talk about. >> they are -- >> just like we've seen stories happen this year that were wake-up calls for the black community, this is another wake-up call. i charge the -- covering this story, it's the same headline white gold or the academy whiteout, this is a message -- >> and it's whiteout since 1995. that's the last time we saw a white panel like this. >> it's one of the moments we can learn from. >> but i'm kind of sick from learning from things. i want something to happen. >> don't we all. >> i agree. we do. >> thank you all for your time

tonight. and catch seema on the dockett tuesdays at 11:00 a.m. eastern on shift by msnbc. we'll be right back. your dog's definitely got your back. but who's got your back when you need legal help? we do. we're legalzoom, and over the last 10 years we've helped millions of people protect their families and run their businesses. we have the right people on-hand to answer your questions, backed by a trusted network of attorneys. so visit us today for legal help you can count on. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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in washington, d.c. overlooking the potomac river? who would have thought the work of dr. king who would once a year be celebrated by closing down the courthouses that once jailed him? to honor his birthday. or the fact that on january 20th 2009 america saw our first black president being sworn in. how ironic that i talk about the lack of diversity in the oscars today, but the one film represented depicts the life of dr. king. on his 86th birthday we remember him for everything not only what he accomplished, but also because he proved we can win this fight. he was a winner. yes, we must be committed to his dream. yes, we must finish the path that he left but we must walk that path knowing that he won,

and that if we fight, if we do not become what we are fighting we can win like king. monday is a federal holiday, and it's blk day, be like king. fight for what's right, but know we can win. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" start right now. tutt tutt\s. i'm chris matthews in washington. once again we have breaking news to report. police in belgium say they have foiled a terror plot at least two suspected terrorists are dead, a third is in custody. the prosecutor says they were ready to pull off a terror attack on a grand scale. we're told the raid is part of a series of raids across belgium tonight. let's go to new york now for the latest. >> thank you, chris. i'm ari melber. a neighbor