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msnbc. hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg. welcome to "your business." now you've probably heard this a lot of times, do what you love and the money will follow. the fact is that is not true. no matter how much you love something, it also takes a lot of hard work to make it a success. etsy the e-commerce site has helped to sport a lot of hobbyists as they turn their passion into money-making businesses. here's how etsy turned love affairs into bank accounts for some fledgeling entrepreneurs. >> etsy is an online marketplace where makers can open up a shop

online. >> carrie shakeman is author of "the handmade marketplace." >> there's a big difference between having a hobby and a lot of your friends saying you should sell that and you decide to manufacture something by hand that you want to sell and then selling it. >> she says that etsy is tailored to meet the special needs of crafters who seek to turn their talent into businesses. >> i think that for someone starting out doing etsy is a great way to start out. >> reporter: anna joyce of portland oregon began what's become a sr. successful etsy shop five years ago. it's called anna joyce designs and sells handcrafted clothing and accessories using her own fabric designs. >> i think when i started myself i saw myself an artist wanting to be a businesswoman. and now i think i have equal parts of both. >> paul is hoping for the same kind of success on etsy.

>> i think i'm very much at the beginning of the selling part of the process. >> paul is just beginning his portland-based etsy craft business. he said etsy helped organize his decorated metal business called etched metal arts. >> i feel like i was barely recognized for how serious of a commitment i was making that it wasn't frivolous. >> i jumped ship approximately two years ago and simply decided my time was better spent playing with my strengths. >> molly ray, also from portland, is a jewelry maker and designer. >> and we're actually going to do an interesting ear wire. >> etsy the no longer cost-effective for her but she credits it with turning her hobby into a scaleable business. she now has her own website, elizabethjewelry.com. >> it helped me launch my career in directions i never could have done before. >> they call themselves etsypreneurs or in molly's

case used to. back in 2005 when etsy started, it opened up a new business for hand crafters. >> since starting my etsy business i have had to do more managerial tasks at my projects get longer and my client list grows, but i still consider myself an artist at heart. >> while many business owners hate the business side of things they sometimes act like they're allegic to it. carrie says sometimes focusing too much on the time and not enough on the making. >> you need to be able to interact online and need to be able to sell your work online and need to be able to direct people to your online shop which is a whole other set of challenges. >> sitting in her studio and sewing up her newest design anna agrees. >> you need to be comfortable with self-promotion. there's just really no way around it. and it can sometimes be

difficult to put yourself out there. >> yet as valuable as it is for you to get customers to hear your message, anna says that she's discovered it's equally important to hear the customers response. >> i've got a lot of feedback saying these sizes are too small, they don't fit me. so i try to offer a wide range of sizes. >> i'm starting to get my products posted on etsy. i have four items up there right now. >> if having only four items sounds insufficient kari says that's not true. in fact, she points out that starting small is the most sensible way to test the waters. >> somebody typically starts out by listing a few items for sale in their etsy shop. then if they have some sales and begin to feel really excited by that, then they decide to pick up a little bit. >> the biggest start for me as far as the shifting point, was when i had a professional shoot. >> generally the next step is

researching how to promote their business more so they realize right away there's a need for marketing. >> and within a few weeks of them seeing the images inhad requests from real simple i was a finalist in the first martha stewart american-made awards. and my sales on etsy just went even further. >> kari says this kind of success can lead to additional business pathways. >> then they look for other ways to supplement the etsy shop so perhaps they begin selling from their own website, sell their consumer goods. >> ironically the more successful anna's etsy shop has become the less she's been able to hand craft the products. >> about 40% of my time i spend in e-mail correspondence approaching new stores shop maintenance, adding items, photographing, editing photographs, preparing for photo

shoots things like that. >> as molly's business grew from a one-person shop she, too, hired workers for demand. molly found her biggest profits came from selling large volume to the wholesale market. so she shifted her business off of etsy to her own website. >> lots of businesses outgrow their original business model and that certainly does happen at etsy stores. >> paul, on the other hand is at just the beginning of this process. thanks to etsy he doesn't have to rent a shop location and he didn't design on his own site. instead he can totally identify his own market. >> i've spent months developing my manufacturing process of techniques and learning what works and what doesn't work. >> for paul if his customer base doesn't respond to one kind of product he makes, he can simply try again and make something new. >> i don't have an official business plan.

i do have goals. >> kari says having no plan is also very typical. and she asks that writing one should be paul's very next step. >> i think that a lot of people are resistant to business plans because it can seem like business plans are for much bigger types of businesses or corporations or banks. i think business plans are really imperative even if you have one that's for your eyes only, just one for you. because you really need to up structure to your business. >> with the help of a business plan, the crafts people can make a transition from artist to entrepreneur. and if it works, then growth may follow. >> when you're ready to scale up you'll definitely know. your customers will be sending you signals they are looking for more and different products from you. >> while etsy changed the way people think about crafts trip adviser changed the way we think about travel. since its start in 2000 the company disrupted the way people

plan and book their vacations can first-hand reviews and photos from locations from around the map. and trip adviser is the largest site with 315 million unique visitors each month. steve coffer, the company's president and ceo, tell us us the values that stay at the forefront of innovation. >> innovation is doing something new that others hadn't done before. it's saying wow, great idea or a great new thing. and it's hard to invent. it invokes a, wow! as opposed to that's nice. if you think what a traveler used to do they would go to a travel agent. because that was the source of information. the travel agent would then convince them this was a place to go or that was a good place to stay. along comes trip advisor.

and now it is not trip advisor giving you add vice it's the 200 million reviews and opinions that our site has collected from millions and millions of travelers all over the globe that will tell you up-to-date information about anywhere you want to go anywhere you want to stay. this is the informal motto of the company. we find it works really well for us. and a bunch of the stuff we tried doesn't work. we put something on the site and nobody clicks on it. far better for me to learn on the website now than in a focus group that may or may not reflect actual consumer behavior. one of the things that drives me nuts is person a says hey i'm trying to launch my project and i'm waiting for comment miss. okay. how long have you been waiting? it's only been a coup kill of days. how are you going to get an answer? don't send another e-mail use this thing, not the internet

use the thing called sneakernet. stand up walk over e-mail. while it's an effective mechanism in my view for an fyi, it's not a very effective mechanism for i need your thoughts, i need your approval i need your comments. if it work great. and when it doesn't, walk on over. if it's worth doing, it's worth measuring. while there's some amount of well, we think it's the right thing to do we actually want to know based on something we can measure whether we should do more of it or less of it after the trial period. every time something doesn't work there's a valuable lesson in there that you can apply going forward. the company does not have a three-year product road map because i don't know what's going to be important in three years. the business we're in changes so quickly and the opportunities come up in such interesting manners that we feel we have to

stay flexible. when trip advisor was born we had this idea we went to a lot of venture capital firms who said, it will never work. one said yes. well one is all you kind of need and the company was born almost died but the company was born. and then it got to where we are. so lots of different paths to a successful innovation and tons of innovative ideas in companies that haven't quite made it weren't ready or whatever reason. i think you have an innovate i have idea talk to somebody including me saying yeah well, not sure. push harder. be the champion for that idea you believe in. if you talk to everyone in the company and nobody thinks it's a good idea put yourself carefully in the mirror and still make sure it's a good idea. but if you do, come back out. >> esty and trip advisor are

examples of how the internet and social media is disrupting businesses. today's elevator pitch wants to do the same thing for weddings and concerts. so we'll see if our panel thinks his idea is innovative idea to tweet about. larry chang is managing partner at velatian capital. >> hi. i'm brian tice and the ceo and founder of snap caster. i want you to think back to the last event you went to a wedding or musical festival. what was everyone doing there? they were taking pictures of their phone. we want to take that and make it part of the experience. snap capture is a web-based software for pictures and comments using your hash tag. then it creates a live social feed that can be displayed on tv, a projector or jumbotron. that feed can be customized to the look and feel of your brand and be moderated for any mobile

device using the swipe of a finger. we have been around for eight months but already have customers to include event planners across the country and national plans like alex and aunie and wake forest university. we are looking to grow our sales and marketing effort and to take snap caster to events around the world. you can read more at snapcaster.com. >> you answered my question right away the moderation. i was thinking can you moderate it? okay. from 1 to 10 how did you feel the pitch went? not how good is the product, but how good was the pitch? larry, you listen to pitches all day long. >> every day. >> how did he do? >> i gave him a 9. >> very nice job, brian. it is hard to communicate in 60 seconds what your company does and you nailed it. >> why not 10 then? what was he missing? >> it is only 60 seconds, so by the format the one thing he could have addressed is it is

clear what the product is but when the problem is solved the real big problem of events have been happening for a long time, is this a must-have sort of technology solution. >> you can answer that is in a sentence, probably. jennifer? >> 9. same thing. i didn't give you 10 because there's always room for improvement. >> nice job. i think it was great how you said the big names, the brand names. you have customers. you answered the question of moderation. i think you did a great job. congratulations. thank you for coming on the show. really appreciate it. you guys stick around because you're going to be needed more on the show. but thank you for giving him this great advice. >> good luck. >> if anyone of you out there are watching the show and wishing you were here in the elevator awaiting feedback from the panel, send us your pitch. the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. please describe what yourp company does how much money you're trying to raise and what your intend to do with those funds. we look forward to reading your submissions and then to see some of you here on the show. when we come back linda

rosenberg, the ceo of endeavor talks to us about how to become a more effective leader. plus we'll have five ways to create content that works for your business. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something. no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

all you small business owners out there, show us your stuff. we want to profile you in our new yourbizselfie segment. send a selfie of your business and tweet it to us us @msnbcyourbiz. make sure to tell us the name the city and the name of your company. there is a huge difference between being an okay leader and a great one. and an okay leader is someone who is in charge of an organization that gets things done. a great leader though inspires people to be their best. here to talk to us about some common traits of very successful leaders is linda rosenberg, the ceo and co-founder of endeavor a group dedicated to supporting fast growing entrepreneurs around the globe and also author of the new best selling book "crazy is a compliment: the pour of zigging when everyone else

zags." >> great to be here. >> i imagine you had to learn it. >> let me start by saying i start off the leadership chapter by saying i was fired by my assistant because i didn't make payroll at one time. i thought someone else would do it and she's like you're the ceo and the only one. unless i have a team leader i don't have the a team to manager. so many entrepreneurs are used to being a group effort and realize at some point they have to step it up but you also need this emotional prep. so i had an image of the patents and had to let that go too. >> successful. as you talked about caesar the old leadership behind the office of people scared to go in but your desk is right there for everyone to see. >> managing on high. one of the worst things i did when we grew up as an organization was to be senior management meeting. and it made everyone else feel disenfranchised and i started

noticing on the intranet the social media network inside chatter, they were saying what is going on in there and how does this affect my job? i gave that up and we now share every decision with all the employees, we use social media internally, not externally but use chatter, and it's made me realize what is happening on the ground. and their ideas are often the best because they are closest to the entrepreneurs. so i think you've got to stop being on high and you've got to be accessible to everyone. >> now aware, be aware of what? >> all right. well this -- the next two are really about what i've learned being a leader and especially a female one. so first i thought everyone has to be more awesome, right? and project strength. and my husband used to tell me too much superman not enough clark kent. and i said what do you mean? i realized the leaders who understand the labels of both themselves and their organization that understand they are flawsome not awesome, are the ones that do better.

and i think this is true for your employees and your customers. and organizations that try to sweep under the rug any misstep are killed today, whereas those that own up authentically apologize and tell people they are pinterest.

it is time now to answer some of your business questions. larry chang and jennifer shaheen are back with us. the first one is about money to run your business. >> i know there's different ways of funding your business you

can bootstrap, get a small business loan get investors quharks are the pros and cons of each way of funding your business? >> all right. let's start with you, larry, ground people's businesses and you primarily fund boot-strap your destiny, there's no one looking over your shoulders, you own the business but the draw back is some businesses need capital to start or grow. so if you need the injection of capital, it is hard to get the boot-strapped company on the lending side of the loan. there are many flavors of loans. i think the lending of that is you can give capital without giving up ownership. that's a positive but banks are always going to have covenants or metrics you have to run your business by and stay above in order to maintain the low. so you have to write with a conservative platform and it's hard to write aggressively with a bank loan. and with investors, you get a ton capital and a cap stall of your investor, you you have to

answer to someone else who is a partner at the table. some folks like that and some don't. >> there are all kinds of ways to get loans, there are bank loans that we know about. there are loans from people you know. there are places like the lending club. >> yep. and today, women actually do very well with funding. lots of businesses that look at craft funding is because the consumer is interested in seeing your product come to market. so that's also another opportunity nowadays besides part of the boot-strapping. there are two sides of the craft funding, you're giving loyalty into or of the equity model. >> okay. let's move on to the next question. it's about how customers can pay on your website. >> as we are in fashion and technology and building a new kind of platform, i'm wondering if you can recommend two or three apps or payment processers to integrate into the back-end of our technology to help with the e-commerce platform and payment processing. >> any ideas? >> well, actually what's

dangerous about answering this question j.j. is there's definitely missing pieces of the puzzle. because when you're talking about technology and you're talking about integration, you really want to know what are you integrating with? so for me to just throwous some apps, that i'll give you, but it is difficult to say, this is going to be the right fit. so one of the first things i love to say is to make sure that whatever apps you're looking at really are going to integrate more effectively with what is in their back end. quickbooks as their own payment processer. if you are going to run your business off quickbooks, that could be the better solution if in e-commerce. whereas you have square. and stripe integrates with a lot of different systems, open source. there's also bean strap, bean sprout. so there's a couple different things. but if you're looking at freshbooks or any kind of crm application or accounting, you

may want to start there before you ask which app to look at. >> i talk to my e-commerce can companies and asked them what they were looking and vantif is very good if you're doing a lot of volume. and then authorized.net and some of the ones jennifer mentioned are good at the younger company level. >> and i think what i'm getting from this is develop find someone who is one step ahead of you, right? a successful company who is wear you want to the be in a couple of years or next year maybe, and ask them what they are using and see how it works for them. okay. we'll move on to the last question about building relationships with large retailers. >> as a small business how do you get into the big box stores? >> don't necessarily go after the big box retailers out of the gate. the ones that have made it in have proven themselves in other emerging channels. so look at the ecommerce companies really scaling, i know she's in female apparel, women's payroll, which is great. there's a company called stitch fix which all the big box retailers are looking at and you

probably know. and then on the men's side there's a company called bomb fell. and these companies pair up with stylists and they are growing so fast and the big box retailers are definitely watching them. >> there are great companies actually. and if you're going to look at getting in a big box, you already have to act as if you're there. so you have to have the right packaging, you have to have the website and the infrastructure in place before you can even make that phone call. and i think that's one of the things we get so excited about our products that we realize we have to have all the things that the consumer would be looking for. if they see you on a shelf and go do their due diligence and look you up on the internet, you have to have everything there for them. and the big boxes are going to look for that before they even consider taking you on. >> great, thank you so much, you guys. this was fantastic advice. so good to see both of you. >> thank you. now if you have a question for our experts, send it on over to us. just go to our website, the address is openforum.com/yourbusiness. hit the ask the show link and that's where you can put your

question. the website is openforum.com/yourbusiness or just drop us an e-mail the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. you guys are guinea pigs this week because we have a new series we are starting this week. we're kicking it off today called j.j.'s challenge. i went around to ask really successful entrepreneurs to tell me one thing they do that has helped them become so successful. and now i'm challenging myself and all of you and you guys to see if we can do what they do. some of these are work-related some of them are personal but the idea is that they should all help us become more effective small business openers. so today we start with tony shay. at the age of 24 tony sold his first company for $265 million. he then went on to run zappos and pretty much changed the way we shop online for shoes. known for its unbelievable customer service, zappos had sales to top $1 billion by the time he sold it to amazon. meanwhile, tony and the company

built up a cult following of employees and customers. here's the challenge, tony shay said to clear your inbox every day. all right, we've got our instructions, this is going to be so hard for me. i checked before i did this. i have 600 e-mails in my inbox. you guys ready? >> i have 100. >> that's it? okay, 100. >> i started the new year with that already as a goal so i'm getting through. >> but you have to keep it every single day. all right. so i'm going to keep posting on twitter and on facebook and on instagram to show you how i'm doing. and all of you guys please do the same so we can struggling there through this together. don't forget to use #thejjchallenge. thank you for joining us today. if you want to see our segments again, just head on over to our website, openforum.com/yourbusiness. and we have posted a bunch more content to help your company grow. we are also on twitter. it's @msnbc yourbiz.

next week two business owners want to go different directions. so what happens when one partner wants to continue to grow the company. >> very clear in order to make adjustments for either of us that we are going to have to raise some money and i couldn't afford to do it by myself. and wasn't prepared to do that by myself. >> we'll tell you how the addition of some new blood and a restructured company are helping this brand expand. till then i'm jj ramberg. and remember, we make your business our business. if i can impart one lesson to a new business owner, it would be one thing i've learned is my philosophy is real simple american express open forum is an on-line community, that helps our members connect and share ideas to make smart business decisions. if you mess up, fess up. be your partners best partner. we built it for our members, but it's open for everyone. there's not one way to do something.

no details too small. american express open forum. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. >> the momentum has felt momentous the last couple of years. on the morning of june 26th 2013, there were 12 states in the country where it was legal for same-sex couples to get married. 12. it streubg down the bill clinton anti marriage