tv Andrea Mitchell Reports MSNBC January 23, 2015 9:00am-10:01am PST
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as the u.s. and cuba conclude their first round of talks, exclusively here a live interview coming up with josephine na vidal and her american counterpart for her first interview since arriving in havana. roberta jacobson. >> you met today, break fast with dissidents. how did they do? what did they tell you about their challenges in cuba? >> first of all, thank you, andrea it's delightful to be with you. this morning's breakfast was wonderful. some of these leaders of civil society i had met with before. not for quite a while, some i had not met before. it was incredibly important for me to hear from them about their struggles and whether they agreed or disagreed with the u.s. policy. it was a diversity. >> shifting sands, saudi king abdullah, the leader of a key u.s. ally country dies at age 90
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after a long illness. another key alal ally, the government of yemen has been overthrown. what will all of this turmoil mean for america? >> al qaeda in the arabian peninsula is a formidable force that wants to topple the saudi monarch and they aren't the only ones. and nfl mia with a whole world talking about deflate-gate and the super bowl only nine days away where is the league investigation going? >> surprising a lot of people certainly a lot of nfl fans the fact that brady says that as of late yesterday, four days after this deflate-gate scandal broke, he still hasn't been contacted by nfl investigators. good day, everyone, a winddy
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day here in havana where they were holding historic ground breaking talks about establishing diplomatic relations. both sides have profound differences and roberta jacobson met with dissidents and sat down with me immediately afterwards. >> that was semantics but there are profound disagreements as you and she both acknowledge, profound between the two countries, human rights is a big one. what do you think can be accomplished on that? >> i think that we've said repeatedly that the president has said the secretary has said that we have no illusions about the cuban government and that we don't have any illusions either about things changing overnight in cuba. the president announced major changes in our policy on december 17th. but there weren't major changes here in cuba from night until day.
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but i do think that it's very important, this policy is designed to support and empower the cuban people. that's the fundamental basis of all human rights. so what we are hoping is that we can have a conversation about universal standards of human rights. >> we'll have the rest of that conversation just a few moments in an interview with the leading diplomat here who was the counterparty to jacobson in all of these talks. eamon javers joins me now. it's interesting that some of the representatives that met with jacobson disagreed with the president's policy of opening up. they think it is in the framework as she just told me of the rewarding cuba for not -- >> that's the same -- >> not producing progress on human rights. human rights is defined
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differently by the cuban. >> not just an issue of lost in translation, but diplomatic translation what exactly you're talking about. you hear the same sentiment among cubans in miami, that a lot of this is rewarding the castros and you've heard that from some republicans on capitol hill as well. there is say little concern when you talk to the average cubans on the street in havana as we've done this week that some of this opening up of the u.s. will sort of deluge havana and they are not ready for it in terms of every day practical things like infratrukt infrastra tukt. there's real practical concerns and diplomatic concerns about all of this. >> despite the fact that the talked concluded late yesterday, acknowledging these profound disagreements over whether human rights should be an issue, what kind of society we have at the same time, they are continuing the talks. the next meetings will probably be in washington. they are talking about how to create limits to embassy and
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insfra structure and how to have more access to the intersection here sew that cubans can come and make requests for visas without being interfered with by security police or anyone else. and the cubans in turn want banking rights. they can't even cash a check in the united states. so they aring very disadvantaged -- >> one of the issues in the press conference was an issue of telecommunications, internet all of that is really a frout subject with the cuban government here. the u.s. both for business reasons and for political reasons wants more communications capability here on the island whether or not the cube anz will let that in will be another sign of how far these talks have gone and whether there is real systemic change here or we're just seeing a small crack in the door at this point. >> you have a division on capitol hill one of the things that josephinevidal -- they want
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to see the entire trade embargo lifted before normalization can take place. it remains to seen whether that is a retore cal point. you know it's unlikely in a near term that a republican led congress will lift a trade embargo. what this administration has done with the new treasury and commerce department regulations is as broadly as possible under the president's executive order interpret what's permitted and let far more americans and more businesses go in. but real open travel back and forth for everyone and open exchange of goods, that can't take place without an act of congress. >> a lot of people back in the states have been e-mailing me as we've been down here this week saying when can i take a tour of havana havana. it's not going to be as quick as people think because we've got these 12 new categories and still need a visa and private charter. >> school groups educational groups cultural groups and
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people who want to scuba dive. there was recently a national geographic group that went down coral reefs here are untouched. >> we had xub adivers in the harbor behind us. >> we're in the wrong place today. thank you so much. joining me from capitol hill perfect timing chris van hollen here only a few days ago, setting up talks. congressman, thank you very much. we're talking about the fact that they ended with pro found disagreements but they are still talking and still going to have a meeting in washington. the cubans want a lifting of the trade embargo. as a member of congress that's something you have pushed for but is that practically going to happen? >> well, andrea you're absolutely right. this is going to be a long process. after all, we've had 54 years of a totally frozen relationship but it will take time to work out the new opening and new relationship and trade and other things. and as we ask the cubans to
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allow more imports of american goods, they are obviously asking themselves what about their ability to export cuban goods to the united states. and i believe that the more engagement we have whether on a people to people leave with exchanges or trading goods and services, the moreover time we'll increase the private sector space within cuba which is really small right now and over time that will lead to greater openings. i have think congress should move forward. you're absolutely right. you have strong entrenched interest that are opposed to it but also have republicans like senator jeff lake who advice i willed cuba with on a number of occasions, along with senator leahy -- >> and he's a republican. >> who argues like the president, as does rand paul. republican senators who understand that the policy of the last 54 years has totally failed and only helped strengthen the castro regime and frankly given the regime an
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excuse for not improving this conditions in cuba. every time something goes wrong in cuba the castro government has been able to blame that on the embargo and yankees. we take away that excuse and we can have greater opening on a range of issues. >> and what would you say to some of the dissidents who met with the assistant secretary of state today and some in her group disagree with the opening, they think it is rewarding the castro regime? >> when senator leahy and our delegation were there just recently we met with the dis dissident groups and human rights groups and the majority of those groups were positive about the potential impact and benefits of the new opening. there were some opponents, the ladies in white were in opposition. but the majority of the dissident groups saw more
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positive benefits than negative in terms of the opening. and i would just emphasize again, the policy we pursued for the last 54 years has not succeeded in opening up anymore human rights space in cuba. just the opposite. it has provided the castro regime with an excuse to clamp down on human rights claiming that the united states was a threat and embargo was what was hurting the economy. you take those excuses away and you make it more difficult for the castro regime to explain its policies to the cuban people. that's why a majority of the dissident groups we met with were actually supportive about the new change. again, this is not going to be overnight. it's going to be over a longer period of time. after all, the policy of the last 54 years was a failure and the one thing we do now, andrea trying to keep doing the same thing with a different result expected is not going to work. so this at least holds the potential for positive change.
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>> thank you so much congressman chris van hollen. coming up live from cuba a very windy day, i'm joined exclusively about by cuba's leading diplomat and chief negotiator with the u.s. and the top american diplomat here in havana more of our interview with roberta jacobson. her first interview since the talks and meeting today with cuban dissidents. >> deflate-gate we'll talk to a former new england patriots quarterback about what this means for the sport and super bowl. you're watching quts an dree ya"andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. ♪ ah, push it. ♪ ♪ ♪ push it. ♪ ♪ p...push it real good! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ow! ♪ ♪ oooh baby baby...baby baby. ♪ if you're salt-n-pepa, you tell people to push it. ♪ push it real good. ♪ it's what you do. ♪ ah. push it. ♪
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is the chief negotiator with the united states josefina vidal. we've seen each other in new york and in washington but this is the first time you've had historic ground-breaking talks on normalizing relations. >> thank you, andrea. >> you and roberta jacobson there are profound differences. what are the big problems to be resolved? >> we have differences because we have different conceptions aej views about many things like for example, sovereignty, political motives, human rights international relations. but in spite of that, we believe that countries which have differences can find a common ground to discuss about this differences with respect and at the same time to look for opportunities to work together on issues of common interest. >> how do you respond to the fact that roberta jacobson met
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with so-called dissidents people from civil society, many critics of your government today for break fast? >> this is exactly one of the differences we have with the u.s. government because for us this is not just -- legitimate cuban civil society is more than 5,000 organizations and association of women, of young people, students farmers, professionals. so you name them. and those -- this small group of people don't represent cuban society and the interest of the cuban people. that's a big difference with the united states government. >> despite that and disagreement over that meeting even taking place and others may hold later in the day, the talks will continue. the pathway towards establishing relations between our two countries seems to be proceeding on track. >> the talks will continue.
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actually, we have had talks with obama administration for several years now. the new thing now is that for the first time we are beginning a new kind of conversation and it is the one aimed at reestablishing relations between the two countries. i mean diplomatic relations, opening embassies and starting a dialogue on how to normalize relations and for that we have to discuss some problems and to try to find solutions. so that one day we can say that relations between cuba and the united states are normal. >> one of the things that jacobson said was that you discussed letting people go in and out of the intersection which will become the u.s. embassy. once it becomes an embassy, that nobody would be interfered with. do you have a problem with that? >> no no problem. these are -- we are protecting the u.s. embassy because after september 11th of course as a
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response to the request made by the u.s. government we have protection around their premises because we have an obligation as a country to guarantee the protection of diplomatic nations. they say as soon as they become an embassy, they would like to see that more flexible. we propose to them to have a meeting, a separate meeting with a corresponding cuban authorities, those are responsible for the protection of the diplomatic premises so this issue can be discussed and resolved. >> similarly, you said cuban diplomats deserve and want to have the ability to cash checks and credit and banking privileges. right now in washington and new york they can't have anything but cash. >> this is a huge problem for a year almost american banks and even foreign banks based in the u.s. has refused to give any kind of services to our office imagine what it means to
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function in a country like the united states without banking services. so we are telling the united states that in order to open embassies, this problem has to be resolved because congress has to facilitate everything that a diplomatic nation needs in order to functioning normally. >> here you are two women, you and roberta jacobson at the height of your professions, very powerful in your countries. did it occur to you that it's interesting to a lot of people that two women are negotiating such big changes for their countries. it has been -- i think an interesting coincidence. we have known each other for four years now, but she's in a high position and having this high position it has been difficult for her to continue visiting cuba. it was i think a coincidence
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that as we decided to start this conversation for the opening and establishing diplomatic relations, she was the one appointed. and am my case i have been doing that for several years now, it was quite natural for me to be part of this conversations. >> you actually had dinner the other night. >> yes, we had dinner. >> do you have informal exchanges? can you get past the political disagreements? >> this is what we normally do. whenever we have this kind of conversations, we have dinners or lunches. and this is a time we use not only to talk about our work but to have a normal civilized conversation between normal people. >> does being a woman make it easier to be a diplomat to find ways to negotiate? does gender play any role? >> i don't know. this is what people say. i'm just very curious really
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what newspapers are saying about that. i don't know. i won't say that. what you need is to have is a willingness to do a good job and a willingness to represent the best as you can the interest of your country. >> how soon do you think that more than the special tour groups that more americans can travel with regularly scheduled flights, with banking and credit how soon will the real heart of this exchange be able to take place? >> it seems that it can take place this year. still, unfortunately not all americans are free to come to cuba because it's -- limited by u.s. law. but i think it is a positive decision the licensing process so those americans who apply for
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the possibility to travel to cuba can do it more easily. at some point this year i would expect an increase in the number of americans. >> and president raul castro and president obama could meet when they are both at least scheduled to attend an aos summit in panama. >> i can tell now they are both be representing cuba and the united states, ats that meeting of heads of state and government in the region. so they will be participating at the same meeting for first time. >> which will be a groundbreaking fact as well in april. josefina vidal, thank you very much. >> the pleasure was mine. thank you. >> much more live from havana. right now, saudi arabia in mourning after the death of king abdullah what will that mean for oil prices and relations with the u.s.? my interview with the top american diplomat more from
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roberta jacobson. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports," live from havana, cuba, only on msnbc. does a freshly printed presentation fill you with optimism? then you might be gearcentric. right now, get this case of paper for only $24.99 and save even more after rewards. office depot & officemax. gear up for great. >> bingo! >> darn it! i was one square away from winning that game.
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uh-huh... you don't love the dress? i love my sister... 40 flavors. 100 calories or less. can you answer right now? is tom brady a cheater? >> i don't believe so. >> two press conferences, no answers and a lot of new questions for tom brady and the new england patriots. damon played quarterback in the nfl for more than a decade including three seasons with the patriots under bill belichick. damon, who do you believe in all of this? could this have happened without tom brady or bill bell check knowing about it? >> absolutely the quarterbacks are very particular about their
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footballs. but after you go through inspections with the officials, then you're focused on the game. honest to goodness yesterday for myself i went and got one of my old footballs, it's been a few years now and went down to the equipment room at the university of washington and pumped up to 13. it has to be in that change of 12.5 psi to 13.5. i put it at 13 and it felt blown up and i brought it down a pound and a half under the nfl minimum and that felt like every football i've ever thrown. for me in whole honesty the whole thing is ridiculous. do the officials actually inspect every single football? there was 24 of them. 12 main and 12 packbackups, i can imagine officials, you get the football and feel it that one is fine. did you stick the gauge in 12.5 and everyone saying they are two pounds under pressure well
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what were they? were they 11 10.5? if i gave you a football right now, 13 or 11 you would hardly know the difference. >> that's certainly the case with me. but the case with tom brady, we know in the past two years ago on a local radio station in boston he said he likes to have an underinflated ball. it was a rainy day and grip would be better. isn't it too much of a coincidence to believe 11 out of 12 were deflated? didn't that have to be an intentional act? >> i want to know how underinflated they are. really? have they all been measured? were they 10 9? i'm telling you, it is such a minimal difference. i'm taking the side of bill belichick. every saturday afternoon, after you walk through, you get -- layout 30 balls in the equipment room and kind of pick your favorite. i can tell you honestly in all of my years, there's never an issue, let's pump more air in let's take more air out of that
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one. it really the air is not a big issue. for most quarterbacks it's about the texture of that leather. when these come out of the bag, they come brand-new, there's a silicone covering wax. for me and most quarterbacks i've got to believe it's about the grain. some of the grains of the leather, the pebbles in it and the back panel where you put your thumb, i wanted a good grip. it was never about the air. there was a punter in miami, i won't say names, before dan marino and i would pick out our game balls and he wanted throw a few in the mix. so i will say that was my only time in 12 years in the national football league where the air pressure was an issue with the footballs. >> damon, you just launched a whole new series of questions and another potential investigation, punters.
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thank you very much for being with us. >> thanks for having any. >> and we're back live from havana in just a moment. we'll have a lot more after the breakfast meeting she had with cuban dissidents this morning, roberta jacobson sat down with us. you park your car. as you walk away crunch! a garbage truck backs into it. so,you call your insurance company, looking for a little support. what you get is a game of a thousand questions. was it raining? were your flashers on? was there a dog with you? by the time you hang up you're convinced the accident was your fault. then you remember; you weren't even in the car. at liberty mutual we make filing a claim as stress-free as
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institute and joins me now. we expected the death of this king. tell me a little bit though 90 years old and sick for a while. designated successor, former defense ministry. there are issues about his health as well. what do we know about the succession and changes taking place? >> king solomon is a well known figure for the united states. i expect continuity, not change will be the hall mark of king solomon's reign, he's taken steps to line up the succession after them, his half brother to the crown next and one of america's most effective allies in fighting the war against al qaeda. the saudis value continuity and value stability and with the rest of the middle east especially yemen, unraveling so quickly, they want to maintain
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stability and continuity at home. >> it's interesting that prince naef would be the next success given the fact that mu krin is also elderly. has such a big security portfolio and was himself a target assassination attempt. >> that's right, al qaeda in the arabian peninsula almost killed him and tried several times since then. he marks the passage of the baton in saudi arabia. when he ascends to the kingship we don't know how long they can last they could last a year. they could last a couple of decades between the two of them. but when he exceeds to the kingship at some point in the future he'll be the first grandson of the founder of the modern saudi kingdom to take
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power. for the last 50 years, only the sons of founder have been kings of saudi arabia and they continue that tradition, continue that continuity. >> it was a big decision and one we only learned about recently as the succession take place. king abdullah the late king abdullah was instrumental in keeping oil production lower, so this is a big exchange in american energy and global energy policy as well. what about yemen and how troubled we should be by this big change the collapse of our ally there? >> first, i expects continuity on oil production too. king salman will continue to keep the level of production up which means prices will stay low. yemen is a disaster.
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this is a country that has been falling apart for the last three or four years and which now looks to be on a terminal path to collapsing as a unified country. that will mean that in part of the country, in the capital, a pro-iranian shia militia group hout his will be in control. and they will be able to hatch plots not only against saudi arabia, western europe like the plot in paris we just saw and against the united states of america like the plots to attack detroit and chicago that we saw in the last five years. this is a very very dangerous situation. both for saudi arabia and the united states. and we don't have a whole lot of leverage to put the yemeni humpty dumpty together again.
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>> a lot of trouble and turmoil, as you can hear there's a freighter going by we're right along the malecon. apologies for that. thank you very much for being with us today. >> thank zblu the white house just announced the president will be calling the new saudi king in the next couple of days. joe biden is representing the united states paying his respects a critical relationship. a new relationship in cuba. the lead u.s. diplomat, roberta jacobson discussed some of the issues on table. >> assistant secretary, thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you. >> you met today and had breakfast with dissidents. how did they go? what did they tell you about their challenges here in cuba? >> well first of all, thank you, andrea it's delightful to be with you. this morning's breakfastwise wonderful. some of these leaders of civil society i had met with before not for quite a while and some i
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had not met before. it was incredibly important for me to hear from them about their struggles and about whether they agreed or disagreed with the u.s. policy. it was a diversity of views. >> some disagreed with the opening? >> certainly, certainly. but most importantly was the discussion of what comes next. what they are going to do. how they want our support. what we can do to help them. and i think it was a very good exchange of views. i came most importantly to listen. we have a great group of people working here in the intersection but there's nothing like hearing from people directly. >> there are profound disagreements as you and she have both acknowledge, profound disagreements between our two countries. human rights is a big one. what do you think can be accomplished on that? >> i think that we've said repeatedly the president has said the secretary has said that
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we have no illusions about the cuban government and that we don't have any illusions either about things changing overnight in cuba. the president announced major changes in our policy on december 17th but there weren't major changes here in cuba from night until day. but i do think that it's very important. this policy is designed to support and empower the cuban people. that's the fundamental basis of all human rights. so what we are hoping is that we can have a conversation about universal standards of human rights universal standards in the u.n. universal declaration of himuman rights. and that therefore we can have that conversation despite the fact that profound differences
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remain. recognizing that that conversation isn't going to resolve those profound differences but that it's in our interest to have that conversation but more importantly, that it's in our interest and in the cuban people's interest for us to continue working on that issue via our engagement with the cuban people and via the american people's engagement with the cuban people. >> critics of course say that you are rewarding this government here in cuba without getting concessions first on human rights. >> i think there have been criticisms obviously of the president's policy but the fact of the matter is the end goals of our policy remain the same. there were no gifts in this policy. as i've said and i know the president and the secretary believe that the establishment of diplomatic relations having
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embassies in countries is not a gift. it is a mechanism for effectively pursuing a country's natural interest. there are many, many countries around the world which don't believe having u.s. embassies are gifts. we can be quite persistent. we can be quite active. and that's our job as diplomats. but it is always better we think to be talking to people to be engaging and to have a full diplomatic presence than it is to be isolated or not to be engaged. >> when some of the dissidents or people from civil societies with whom you met disagreed with that policy. what was the basis of their disagreement? >> some of them have the perspective that you've just referenced, that they believed that this could be interpreted whether by the cuban government or others as either a concession or a reward.
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that is certainly not our position. and we don't think that that will be perceived as such as time goes by by anybody. but there are also people who believe that as this moves forward, it may not be effective in bringing about change. what the president has been clear about, that the last 50 years have proven that previous policy was not effective in bringing about change and connectivity with the world in cuba. and so after those 50 years as he said just the other night in the state of the union, you have to try something else. because we all -- the civil society participants in cuba and we want the same thing, which is the cuban people to make their own decisions on their future. we want to try something different to be more effective in achieving those ends.
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>> you speak of change and change is what both sides say they want. how long will it take? what americans are asking is when can i travel openly and that is still banned by the embargo. >> i think that it's -- it's not banned for the american people to travel if you fall under the 12 thoshzed categories. >> for education, culture, family visits. abroad -- >> and the fact is that what we've done under the new regulations is to ensure that in those 12 authorized categories the provision of general license as opposed to pesk licenses makes it easier more fluid for americans who fall under those categories to visit cuba. obviously americans have visited cuba in greater numbers. cuban americans have been able to see families much more than they were in the past. that's critically important. travel providers are going to find it much easier to provide
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those services than they did in the past. >> and airlines will -- >> exactly. >> soon, months? are we talking a year? how long until there will be an airline agreement or more regular easily accessible travel? >> you know i don't know exactly how long those things will take. what i can tell you is that being in government as long as i have been the fact that the treasury department and commerce department regulations were published on january 16th a month after the president's announcement is probably record time -- >> that's pretty fast. >> haven't done the historical research but i suspect that's almost record time. that gives you a sense of the urgency we felt in getting those regulations published and beginning to put them into effect. the test of those regulations and the time line will depend a great deal on those who are implementing them, if you will taking advantage of them beginning to do so.
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and finding out how they are serving their purposes. and we will continue our dialogue with the businesses the travel providers and organizations who do the cultural programming and educational programming to see whether they are working as intended. >>. >> and we'll have more when we come back. i asked roberta jacobson about the fact that two women are in charge of this diplomatic breakthrough. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." when only one network is america's largest and most reliable 4g lte network: verizon. with xlte, our 4g lte bandwidth has doubled in over 400 cities. and now, save without settling. get 2 lines with 10gb of data for just $110... or 4 lines for just $140. and get a $150 bill credit for each smartphone you switch. hurry! offers end january 31st. only on verizon.
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we've had our first conversation. i can't give you an exact time line. i think that the secretary has made clear that he believes when it is timely and appropriate we'll be able to open embassies and reminded us all that the conduct of diplomatic relations and opening embassies is by mutual consent. so we each have to be satisfied that we have all of our procedures in place. we think it's critically important that the cuban people have access to an american embassy. greater freedom of access than they've had in the past without interference. that's very important to us. we also think it's important that our diplomats have greater freedom to travel around the island and interact with the cuban people as diplomats of other countries with full diplomatic relations have. those are are the kind of things that have to be worked out.
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as soon as we can get those things worked out, we can have embassies. >> what josefina vidal said, cuban diplomats in washington want to be able to cash a check. >> this is something we have been working on at the state department and elsewhere for quite a while now. banking services for diplomats acredited in other countries, are resip pro cal responsibilities of governments and we've been trying to resolve that problem. there is new urgency behind that with this initiative and we'll continue to work with that. >> how soon can secretary kerry come be in this beautiful place? >> the secretary spoke to that the other day with the words i just mention and looks forward to doing so when he can. and we've resolved many of these issues and we're ready to open an embassy. >> do you think you made progress in the talks despite
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the difference? >> i think it's incredibly important that diplomacy is the small steps. i think that we take these steps towards the goal. neither of us knew exactly what issues the other wanted to put on the table. and so we did make progress in understanding the issues of importance to each of our governments. but it is a complex process. and the fact is that normalization will take some time. opening embassies is only a part of that. so i would say that we made progress but i want to underscore that this is a complicated process after this many years. >> this happens to be the anniversary of the swearing in of the first woman to be secretary of state, madeleine albright. and here we are in a country
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divided from the united states for kek aids and decades and these important talks being led by two women. that something that you and josefina vidal focused on at all? did it occur to you? you both grew up in a profession that has been long dominated by men. >> i have to tell you that the truth of the matter is for me in some ways that seems like the most normal thing in the world. >> that's progress. >> i have said to people that after working under secretary albright secretary rice secretary clinton, i occasionally have to adapt myself to saying mr. secretary, instead of madam secretary. but i'm also the first woman to hold this job. so i'm obviously aware of firsts still. i think we as the heads of our
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delegation, were considerably less aware of that fact than was the press. >> and the next meetings will be in washington? >> well i would expect that we will have more meetings and that they would probably be in washington the next time not entirely sure exactly when those will be. >> and our thanks to roberta jacobson for that interview. as of march 1st u.s. issued credit cards can be used in cuba they are removing the block. there is a change to report. we'll be right back from cuba. ♪ the bold nissan rogue, with intuitive all-wheel drive. because winter needs a hero. now save up to $1,000 when you
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