this morning my question just how soft are tom brady's hands? plus, the gop bunts on it's abortion ban. and the universal coverage we almost got. but first, president obama keeps it classy. good morning i'm melissa harris perry, let's take a little journey together back to january 2009. do you remember? in a historic political victory, president obama assumed office and as he did, the country was making a less triumphant history, the worst economic prices since the great

depression. joblessness would peek above 10% by the president's first october in office. the economy had shed more than two and a half million jobs the prior year and our national gdp in fact decreased the final quarter prior to his election. household debt was at a near record high in the foreclosure crisis and mortgage meltdown meant american families were watching their hard-earned wealth evaporate. the situation was so dire it led the is a tier yal newspaper the onion to quote, black man given nation's worst job. this financial crisis set not on the agenda of the obama administration, but the tone. for the past six years, the president has tempered his public remarks about the economy by acknowledging there was still work to do barriers to be overcome before we could begin to truly see the economic crisis in our collective rearview mirror. maybe it's because we've grown

accustomed to his measure tone the the president sounded so different during tuesday night's state of the union address. >> america, for all that we have endured, from all the grit and hard work required to come back for all the tasks that lie ahead, know this the shadow of crisis has passed. and the state of the union is strong. >> and so it seems, the shadow of the crisis has passed. but if the crisis is over why exactly did the president spend most of the next hour discussing his policies to address the economy? >> nothing helps families make he understand meet like higher races. if you truly believe you could work full-time and support a family on less than $15,000 a year, try it. and let's close the hooploopholes that allows the top 1% to avoid paying taxes on their accumulative wealth.

giveaways that the superrich don't need. >> so it's about the economy, but don't miss this because even for historic president who presided over historic economic crisis this particular way of thinking about economic crisis is note worthy. because traditional indicators show that this president's economic legacy is secure. the economy is growing, unemployment is down to 5.6% gas prices are at low nest years. consumer confidence is at it's highest in over a decade. new homes built, stock market is humming along, he's won. indeed as he noted on tuesday, he's won twice. but even with both of those electoral wins and an economy around which many presidents would take a victory lap. president obama has drawn the nation's attention back to the economy. this time with the goal of making it's address to stark divide between the haves and have notes. 99 and 1% parts of the economy that american social movements first introduced the president wants us to talk about class.

yes, i said it class. rarely used to organize politics in america. since the young frenchman alexis traveled our nation in the 1830s filling his notebooks with his observations of this grand experiment and self-governess happening across the atlantic and wrote no novelty struck me more vidly during my stay there thaninequality. despite the entrenched system of slavery, segregation of women, as a european traveler he was taken back by america. and we have remained people deeply invested in this idea of democratic democracy. we have invested that while inequality may exist, it is not permanent. individuals may face struggles, but it is not defined by ongoing class struggle. not everyone starts in the same

place, but promises that no matter where you begin, it is hard work individual sacrifice, and hard earned merit that are always most important the self-definitions for americans because nearly all of us tended to identify with the striving snore of our economy. in recent years, this has changed awe pew reports, the portion identify as middle class has dropped sharply. this has happened while those who identify as lower classes increased. the shadow of the economic crises may be over but a new and perhaps more durable crisis has emerged, american economic and inequality may be more stark than ever with this economic reality comes a fundamental shift. we are now having a conversation about class. joining me now, msnbc

contributor and amy. executive vice president of the cato institute and author of the libertarian mind a manifesto for freedom. okay. so this is just to all of you gays reason with we in a new place? are in america that things about class as central to how we're going to organize our politics? >> absolutely. melissa, back in november, out of ten said that the economic situation that they currently find themselves in or they feel they're in is the number one issue as to why they're voting for whatever members of congress they voted for. we now know that the vast majority obviously voted for republicans. this moment that we're in reminds me -- >> no no no back up that's not quite right. so there are more republicans who won, but not because there was a vast majority more americans who voted for them but rather because of the way

that the districts are measured -- >> hold on some of those incumbent democrats lost. >> sure. right, there's a vast majority. yes. >> but the reality is eight out of ten said what they said in terms of the economic institution. >> yes. >> this moment this economic moment that i find that i think we're in reminds me a little bit of 1991 when george h.w. bush said the economy is strong but people are saying i don't feel that. it doesn't make sebs to me. the reason why is because the harder i work i still did can not make basic ends meet. this is not about going to disney world, this is not about going to france, this is putting my kid through college. what the president i think is trying to frame is saying the fundamentals are there, we're doing great, however, the economic disparity that we currently find ourselves in there's a lot of work that needs to be done. >> not only is that sort of a critical point of view but before i start, also want to point out, americans actually are not as we typically have

when we have economic struggles, we blame ourselves, work harder but in recent study, 62% blame congress a lot, 54% blame financial institutions 47% large corporations just over a third blame the obama administration, but onliley 8% blame the middle class themselves. >> the fundamentals are there, the economy is doing so much better than it was during the recession and even the beginning of the recovery but people aren't feeling it. and we have had many years of so-called recovery where this has been true things are gradually getting better and the average american is having a really hard time paying her bills, feeding her family. working multiple jobs and they know that they're working hard and they don't see the rewards, and i think they're starting to say look i'm doing what i'm supposed to be doing and this american dream is not coming my

way. >> are we wrong to be looking to the institutions that we're blaming? in other words, to say if i think that congress is the one standing in the way? shouldn't i be looking for government redress of that should or many libertarians might claim, no actually you don't want sort of government coming in to fix these? >> we should certainly look for redress. laws should repeal rather than new lays and new taxes to pass. there are a lot of laws ranging from the taxing cartel to the licensing to the too big to fail bailout for banks that help the rich at least the established against people who are not yet established. established. in my opinion, that is a problem that both parties are responsible for. you try to change any of these things from terrorists to protect, businesses that produce in the united states to the too big to fail and the bailouts to the taxing cartel on the local

level, and you're going to get democrats and republicans resisting change that would open up the economy. >> but part of what's interesting you hear is the president does seem to be suggesting both last week and in the state of the union saying there is one place we are going to have to tax in order to really change this and that is the ability to give all of the money to the next generation. right. we're going to need to tax that inheritance in order to provide a more even playing field for others. >> my sense that there's some consensus that the recession had a devastating impact on the middle class and on the poor correct? and the recovery has not been even for all those sectors of the economy. >> yep. >> for the rich and the very rich, the economy has recovered spectacularly. for the middle class, it's been you know, a rough going. i think a lot of the policies that the president proposed higher minimum wages, paid sick leave, training community college, are policies designed to move more of that middle class, more of the lower class into the middle class and more

of the middle class of the latter. americans tell you 30% of the top 20% should make 30% of the pie. >> uh-huh. >> okay. >> what it really is 84%. right? so we have a pie that very few people are eating big chunks of. and it strikes oddly to americans sense of fairness and opportunity. and they're not blaming themselves because obviously for many people they're working harder than ever. and earning the same or sometimes less than ever. and that's the challenge. >> pause, we're going to get everybody back in on these questions, but when we come back, i'm going to ask, is it class or race? >> i have no more campaigns to run. my only agenda i know because i won both of them . e pm...

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now that american politics is increasingly infused with conversations about class, old question has once again become relevant. why did the united states never develop a dominant left wing working class like the european counterparts? in short, what has kept class from being the primary source of portfolio identity in america? one offed sided answer race. the argument suggests that the deep scarf slavery and the injustices of jim crowe met racial and issues have been most relevant in dividing the debate. then 35 years ago, sociologist william wilson published his foundational book. the declining significance of race and proposed that race was no longer the primary barrier to mobility for black americans.

look, instead wilson counselled to the bitter bill of poverty. as the influence decreases, class takes on greater importance in determining the life chances of minority individuals. that provocative thesis class over race set the stage for debate that rages today about the sources and remedies for american inequality. but even as president obama encourages us to think more carefully about class, evidence suggests that race remains a powerful indicator of life opportunities, and outcomes. for example, the infant mortality rate for black mothers is more than twice as high as the rate for white mothers. that despairty persists across the economic status. the issue gets stickier when we consider economic mobility. not only are lower income black americans less likely to experience upward mobility but once they've made it to the middle class, black families actually move downward.

68% of white children born to middle income families will earn higher income than their parents. but the majority of black children from middle income families will end up earning less than their parents. and almost half will fall from middle class status to the bottom of the income distribution. this is a report by the brookings institute found that achieving middle income status does not appear to protect black children from future economic adversity. meaning that despite the popularity of drake's track, we actually started from the middle, not we're here. up next president obama's middle class economics and racial inequality. (son) oh no... can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that's why i got a subaru legacy.

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like. are we going to accept an economy where only a few of us do spectacularly well or do we commit ourselves to an economy that generates opportunity and rising incomes for everybody who's willing to work hard and make an effort? that's a choice we've got to make. >> that was president obama continuing the arguments he made in the state of the union for more fair economy, part of what i found interesting the republican responses. i want to listen to two. i want to listen to mitt romney also talking about economic inequality and rand paul in his response, which also sounded quite different. >> it's a tragedy, human tragedy that the middle class in this country doesn't believe the future will be better than the past or kids will have a brighter future than their own. only president obama, rich have gotten richer and more people in povr any america than every before. >> good evening, i wish i had better news for you, but all is not well in america. america is adrift.

something is clearly wrong. america needs many things but what american desperately needs is new leadership. pitting one american against another is not a pathway towards prosperity. the president is intent on redistributing the pie, but not growing it. >> so in response rand paul doing, a kind of pushing back against it but in the days before, you'd had mitt romney also making a kind of inequality argument, what does that tell you about where we are politically? >> rand paul said income inequality was real. there was like a truther thing going on about income inequality lifer science, doesn't exist republicans said you're being class warrior. now a bunch of them are saying it does exist and it's obama's fault. which is interesting because it has grown under his watch. and i think where you're going to see the die vernss what do we do about it? obama's talking about capitol gains taxes.

>> you asked earlier where we don't have a left wing party in america, maybe the answer is race, that just sort of divided us into two classes and that's all we needed, but, it may be but i think it's also that the american tradition of individualism, anti-statism what i would call that. we don't expect that everybody will be equal, people have didn't talents, different amounts of luck everything equality under the law, equality dig any ten there obviously race was a terrible exception, but equal dignity under the law. miss manners writes about this in eversewn yan manners that in europe there is a real class system even today. whereas an america it's always been the case that the shoe shine guy, the small businessman, the lawyer in the

big house, still regarded each other as political and social equals, even though they had varying amounts of money. >> what if that is no longer true? what if i say that is at minimum, it is part of our self-understanding that's deeply entrenched exactly the issue is this idea that children will not do as well as their parents and working hard doesn't pay off, if that's true how do we begin to correct that issue? >> top # # % of the population is making 41% of the wealth in the country, clearly calls for solutions. and it clearly speaks to the game being somewhat rigged against the middle class, against the working class, that's why the correctives of wages, training paid sick days paid family leave, are opportunities to let the bottom of the labor market go up. so that people can catch up. i find it curious that we seem to have more sympathy for billionaires than we have for the average working person

that's trying to work at mcdonald's or somewhere else trying to raise a family. >> when you say more sympathy for billionaires, you give an example? >> all of the concern from a policy perspective to ensure -- >> tax perspective? >> that they're so-called freedom to earn a greater amounts of money preserve while the rest of the society sen slaved by poverty and enshriver slaved by inequality. >> what freedom are we talking about? >> and in part either from the bottom, because of this belief in class mobility people were have typically been in america unwilling to tax at the top because they believe, well some day, you know some day i'm -- >> i'm going to get there. >> if people no longer believe that. >> exactly. >> if people no longer believe that -- >> that's -- >> i get you. but they didn't all start there. sam walton didn't start there. >> but the thing is walton's such a great example, then it children are born and they are

born there. so like it is one thing to be -- >> but his grandchildren are born rich. >> and without having to have achieved that. right? and to me that's the question is, i think we can have question about ethics of how someone gets there. the real question is why is grandchildren deserve to be in that class having not earned his way. before break i do want to update you on the huge winter storm impacting more than six million people this morning. it is dumping snow and rain from eastern tennessee into northern maine. more than a foot of snow has fallen in amarillo, texas, double the record for this time of the year. as the storm heads up the east coast and into new england, some places could get up to six inches of snow. and another storm system is coming in right behind this one. for the latest chris palone joins us from andover, massachusetts, what are the conditions like where you're at right now? looking like you're standing in the snow there. >> that's right, melissa.

we've had these big, fat snow flakes falling since about 5:30 this morning here in the valley of massachusetts. and as you can see, if you look behind me you can see that the roads here are completely snow-covered. it's been really treacherous all morning, and the town of andover has really been running a lot of plows this morning spreading salt and sand. they are not able to keep up with the pace of this snowfall. now as you can see, people are out and about. it's not as busy as it would be on a normal weekday, obviously it's a saturday so they're make their way slowly up and down the road here. we do know that there are several accidents out in various towns, spinouts car crashes, minor things no major injuries and on the mass turnpike the speed limit is down to about 40 miles an hour. there's been a tractor trailer rollover in southboro, massachusetts, that's been cleaned up. so far slow going on the roads. we're expecting five to nine inches of snow.

we have three to four inches here already. and it is a heavy, wet snow. great for snowballs if you have to get out and shovel this it is not fun. and it can actually be very strenuous activity. so that's the story here in andover, melissa, back to you. >> in massachusetts, making what i presume are fully inflated snowballs. thanks and try to stay warm with us. how kansas governor sam brownback is taking money from kids to clean up his own mess. >> friends, it is time for a new school finance formula. [ applause ] that formula should reflect real world cost and put dollars in the classroom. with real students. not in bureaucracy, in buildings, and gimmicks. ness legalzoom has your back. over the last 10 years we've helped over one million business owners get started. visit us today for legal help you can count on to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here.

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it. maybe it was returned to sender. because in that letter i detailed the governors recent doubling down on his march to zero income taxes. his refusal to ask the states wealthiest to pay while simultaneously hiking taxes on cigarettes and liquor. now this week more details about the plan to fix his state's mangled finances are coming to light. the governor wants to cut classroom funding by $127 million. i want to underline that. as part of the plan to tick the state of kansas out of a nearly billion dollar hole which the governor helped to create he wants to cut classroom funding by $127 million, kansas you may remember is the same place where a state court panel ruled just last month that the education funding was so low, it was unconstitutional. joining me now, from kansas city missouri is joan wagner who is chair of the democratic party of kansas, she's the

former secretary of revenue and former state representative. joan, i want to ask you about the plan the formula that was put into place in 1992 you were part of that help people who aren't from kansas to understand what it is that the governor is now doing and how that will impact that formula. >> the '92 formula came about because of a court case that said we were not funding all students equally. before that it had just been legislators lined up and whoever had the most votes, their schools got the most money. so this formula does exactly what the governor says he wants a new formula to do. it delivers money equitably to all students and it makes sure that they are, are treated equally and adequately. the adequate is the problem because he won't put money in it. so when he's cutting this 127 million now, the formula can't possibly work because it doesn't have enough money in it. what the old formula or the

current formula does is make sure that poor kids get a little extra, students who maybe speak a second language or english is not their first language students that live very very far away from their school district have transportation money. so there are a number of factors that are taken into account to make sure there's equity. in addition to that property tax, which districts get less state aid than the poor property tax districts. and so that's part of the fairness. people have talked about scrapping it i don't know how they're going to get rid of it and still be constitutional. >> so help me to understand here what the governors other options would be. i mean you've got a billion dollar deficit, he's saying here's a place where i can kind of go and pull some of it out. what other alternatives does he have? >> well, the first thing he could do that would be correcting the problem is get rid of his tax proposal.

he's giving 190,000 people who are primarily business owners like doctors and lawyers no tax. they put zero income tax in kansas. and he's cut the higher rate much lower, it's a 27% cut at the top, he could restore those cuts, he could take away that compensatory damages and he'd have plenty of money to fund schools to take care of people in need to fund medicaid expansion and all of those things that are so very important. >> so what are the politics then of kansas that i mean clearly the governor was reelected and must believe he has a kind of political basis for doing this. >> the governor was barely reelected, he even got less than 50% of the vote but what he has is an awful lot of very conservative republicans in the house. but they don't like this plan either because what the governor wants them to do is raise cigarette taxes and raise liquor

taxes. take away exemptions in the income tax for the home mortgage exemption on your federal tax. they don't like his plan either. so what they're going to have to do is realize that we cannot go to zero on income tax and sustain the services that we have and the losers are going to be children in the classroom, poor people and in fact he's going to destroy the business climate of the state. >> joan hold one second i just to want get you in on this it does feel like it is dined of a demonstration project, then we've been talking about this morning around issues of inequality. >> absolutely. i think kansas has been an experiment in trickled down economics. if you cut taxes, will your state grow will the pot grow for everybody, and the evidence right now coming out of it is no you're going to have a huge budget hole the jobs rate in the state has lagged behind the national average, and he's now having to resort to things like cutting education to paper over that hole. so, you know we're looking at

income inequality always has to go back to tax rates because that's been the biggest driver for income inequality. we can look and say maybe we need to look at the top and how people are taxed and think about rearranging those rates so they're a little more fair. >> i mean this feels to me again, this is the thing we've been talking about, if poor children nor kansas don't have the same literally don't have the same opportunity to rise up that ladder as say the waltons, this is the kind of thing that it seems to me strikes americans as patently unfair. >> poor education for poor children is a very big problem in our country. what the governor said in the clip, and i'm no expert on it but what the governor said in the clip was that he wanted to move money away from the school of bureaucracy and into the classroom. considering that we have quadrupled education spending in the united states and yet test scores have stayed flat for 40 years, that suggests that putting more money into the schools is not the answer. and that's why libertarians have talked about giving poor kids

options. let them go to non-governmental schools to voucher a tax credit or something like that. and governor brownback seems to be only talking about rearranging money in the public schools. i don't think this is a sufficient answer to the problem of poor schools. >> joan, i'll give you 20 seconds to finish us up here. would you like to respond so that? >> yeah, there are a number of ways to solve the problems and getting vouchers for poor children, school choice we already sort of have that in the ability of people to move from one district to another. as long as they don't upset a racial ballots. so, that alone is not going to solve it but what's wrong is the money does go to the classroom. it's, it's not truthful that it doesn't go to the classroom. it does. >> joan wagman in kansas city missouri, thank you so much for joining us. and we are reminder when we talk

about kansas and education, it was brown v board of topeka kansas. questions of fairness is right there at the center of our nation. we'll be back in the next hour. thank you to bryce covert also hector guzmont. up next why some parents are paying more for child care than for their mortgage. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more. can this decadent, fruit topped pastry... ...with indulgent streusel crumble,

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so if you haven't had to foot the bill for child care lately you, may not realize how much it is. you'll spend more for day care than a public college. that can be a big burden on many families particularly on low income families who will likely to spend 30% of their income on child care. so during tuesday's state of the union address, president obama laid out some initiatives to

help parents. here's how he introduced the topic. >> during world war ii when men like my grandfather went off to war, having women like my grandmother in the work force was a national security priority. so this country provided universal child care. >> wait a minute can we hear that again? >> during world war ii when men like my grandfather went off to war, having women like my grandmother in the work force was a national security priority. so this country provided universal child care. so this country provided universal child care. >> you know what universal child care in this country. well sort of. the act of 1940 established facilities in 635 communities across the country that cared for kids while their fathers were at war and their mothers were at work. the centers were placed in towns that could prove they were contributing to the bar effort.

for no more than 75 cents a day, about $10 in today's dollars, meals and early education. they were closed in 1936. universal child care was closer to becoming a reality in 1971 when congress passed a comprehensive child development act, laid the foundation for a network of child care centers ohmed to families of all income levels on a fighting scale. congress authorized money for the program, but when it landed on president nixon's desk he vetoed it. that leaves us where we are today with a system that my first guest calls a no-win situation. ellen bravo is the executive director of family values at work. also at the table, stay at home dad and blogger for the brown website, christopher panthersly and madeline who is a family child care small business specialist from the committee for hispanic children and families. ellen, why exactly is child care a no-win situation in our

country? >> think of it like this parents can't afford to pay what they're paying including middle class families certainly not low income families, and child care providers often live in poverty, and there's a high turnover which is bad for everybody. >> there's no way that they can pay more or they can earn less. sop we can't fix it unless we add a third leg to the stool. and that's public subsidies. think about public education, it wasn't always public it wasn't always free and it wasn't always available to everyone. >> and it may becoming none of those things again. >> but it changed over time and the length of time changed, and we need to change it now again. we need to lower it start at age three, then we need a system, guess what we know what it looks like. another branch of government does it the military. right now today, they know how to do quality, they know how to do sliding scale. they invest in training they have good pay for the people who provide it. they have a coordinated link

system relief referral it's not about money, it's about politics. >> el within, this is an interesting point that you lay out for us. it's one i want to dig into here. so how can it be that it is so expensive for parents to pay for child care but that child care providers in fact makes a little less than teachers who we already know don't make enough. often sometimes poverty level wages. >> yes in new york it is estimated to make about $24,000 a year. the high cost is normally associated with the private care sector as opposed to the publicly subsidized family child care providers. but the cost is high in many cases just because of a lot of the regulation and the cost of renting the space. they have to do background checks fingerprinting for all of their staff. there's a lot of administration related to it as well in terms of assessing the children all of that. >> and these are protections we want, right? these are protections that both child care providers as well as

obviously parents undoubtedly want. when you talk to the folks that you are working with who are providers, would they welcome something like what the president was suggesting on tuesday night? >> well right now it's not certain how those moneys will be allotted definitely it would be help to feel have money going towards professional development because some of the regulation does require a lot of the providers, nonetheless, they don't have the support in order to comply with the rules or regulations. some of them do need to understand how you perform an assessment since they're behaving more like child development specials when their backgrounds really haven't sort of been in that. they're not trained to do that. so providing them the assistance in order to comply with all these regulations would definitely be useful. >> i want to go to the parental side for a second after i baby about to turn one, and obviously this issue is of a no-win situation can also feel that way when there are two parents who are also both working, and then you look at the cost of child

care, and if one of the parent's income doesn't meet or exceed it, you start feeling like well, maybe, maybe we just shouldn't even be trying to earn an income in this circumstance. >> that's exactly where we were. we did, i wanted to be home so that's when the conversation began. and we started to look at the finances and we uncovered that it just didn't make a lot of sense for both of us to work if one of us wanted to be home and we were possibly going to put ourselves in debt to do so. if both of us continued to work. so i do feel blessed to have the opportunity to be home with my daughter and have that experience, but, it's not just a great thing for me it's also a financial consideration for us. >> when we come back i want to talk more about this ellen, and talk then about whether or not what we ought to be doing is subsidizing child care subsidizing households who have

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it's time we stop treating child care as a side issue. or as a women's issue and treat it like the national economic priority that it is for all of us. [ applause ] >> high quality child care benefits not just individuals or families the entire nation. that's the argument that president obama has been making this week. so ellen, we were talking about child care centers are one way, but there's other proposals out there, talk to me about that. >> infant care the infant care apparent. right now one out of ten pregnant women go back to work before four weeks. and one out of four before eight. how do you find infant care at three weeks or five weeks. how about dads who go back after a three days they may not be

sore or welcome at a timing -- lactateing or sleeping. he talked about paid leave, paid sick days because kids need their parents then too. they're all connected. and they're connected also to the economy. if we let parents do what they do in iceland, three, three, three, three months for the mom, three months for the dad or same-sex partner and three months their share. it's going to move to five five, two. and guess what happens. most of the men take the lead after a year and a half the couple, 70% of them are sharing child care. we have a system where instead we push people into financial crisis. and that hurts the economy. you ask small business people people who don't come buy their shoes or don't go out to dinner have their roof fixed because they had a baby. bad for kids bad for families bad for the economy, paid leave will help fix it. so will paid six days for sick kids. >> the other people on the one

hand, we may want to push universal child care down so we're starting to think of three years old rather than five years old as the time when kids enter into collective spaces and we share that burden as a nation. there's lots of good economic benefits for that investment but on the other hand the idea of going back to work when you have the four week old makes me want to cry because they're so tiny and you're still doing so much work of bonding, is there like when you think about as a stay at home parent what are the policies you would need to make it really possible for you, and for others who to make the choice you make to stay home? >> i think it definitely should be something for, and it should be an option for both parents and encourage both parents to take the time very similar to the format that you were just discussing. there's such a, a stigma attached to men and dads staying

at home and we need to really move past that. i think there are a lot of fathers who have so much to offer who are just so committed to bringing home that money and doing that and doing this and kind of forgetting about the opportunities of staying home and building that really wonderful repore. it needs to start there that that encouragement that both parents staying at home. much in the way that the president mentioned. it really is a job for both parents. >> when you talk about stigma, that seems to also be true for the professional men and women most mostly women who are doing the work of infant to five-year-old child care. we think of kindergarten teachers as teachers and high school principals as educators, but despite the fact we know how important the early years are, we often don't think of the women who are providing child

care for 18 month olds and two-year-olds as professionals who should be paid and supported the way professionals should be. >> and i'm glad you bring that up because i think it's important to start breaking the myth that this is baby sitting. it's not baby sitting, and yes, they do offer custodial care in that respect, they're care keepers, but they're also, you know nutritionists, they have to cook the food they have to make sure it's healthy in order to comply with the food program. they also have to have an emergency plan so their emergency management personnel, whether it's in shelter or in the evacuation plan, they also need to know cpr and first aid. they have to maintain a clean plate. they need to know hygiene and sanitation standards, they also need to be as we mentioned earlier, child development specialists in certain respects. they're wearing all these hats need to be social workers,

mandated reporters by the way, and then they manage the operation. so they're, you know, operations person, and then the business owners, at the same time. >> and therefore probably ought to make more than minimum wage. i just think about deidria who is the primary childcare provider for my older and hillary for our baby now, and how critical they are to the work of raising those kids. thank you to ellen and christopher, also to madeline. coming up next revolt in the republican ranks over key conservative issue and the hot mess that is the national football league. there is more at the top of the hour. ying ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. great taste. [ m'm... ] [ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.®

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and get this document shredder free -- a $29 value -- when you use promo code go. call now. ♪ ♪ ♪ "here i am. rock you like a hurricane." ♪ fiber one now makes cookies. find them in the cookie aisle. [meow mix jingle slowly and quietly plucks] right on cue. [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow...♪ it's more than just a meal it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. welcome back i'm melissa harris-perry. something extraordinary happened in congress this week, a group of republican lawmakers stopped their colleagues from voting against reproductive rights. house republicans had planned to vote thursday on a bill to

outlaw abortions after 20 weeks of presentation. that was the plan. and we all new it was -- knew it was coming we were waiting for it. part of the reason is because the timing was not random. never let it be said that house republicans lack for dramatic flair. they had time to vote for thursday the 42nd anniversary over roe v wade and the anti-abortion law on the mall in washington, d.c. leaders pulled the bill from consideration. they just bailed. let's be clear by washington standards, this is embarrassing stuff when everyone knows you're going to do something, and then at the last minute you have to not do it because you realize, uh-oh, we don't have the votes for this. when you have to take your tale and run, it's kind of weak. and it was all thanks to a revolt led by republican congresswoman, renée ellmers. you may remember her from this

moment in 2013 questioning the nation's top policy official about obamacare's insurance requirements. >> single male age 32 does not need maternity coverage. to the best of your knowledge, has a man ever delivered a baby? >> you know ladies time has expired. >> uh-huh. that was an oldie, but goody. okay, she's not exactly the most progressive woman in congress but for ellmers and other, 20 week abortion ban went too far, one important way. the bill's exception for rape would only count if the rape was reported to law enforcement. ellmers may have forseen critics saying that requirement boiled down to determining whether a rape was legitimate. and so she told her colleagues to consider the optics especially how the bill would look to younger voters that republicans are desperate to get in 2016. she said quote we got into

trouble last year, and i think we need to be careful again. we need to be smart about how we are moving forward. the first vote we take or the second or fifth vote shouldn't be on an issue where we know that millennials, social issues just aren't as important to them. ellmers and another republican woman pulled their names from the bill's list of co-sponsors this week and the house leaders decided to cancel the vote rather than pass an abortion bill opposed by some of their own party's women, but thursday it was still the march for life in washington still the anniversary that abortions are skrulgsly protected and -- constitutionally protected and republicans were determined to pass something. so for the third time the house passed a bill that would expand the ban on federal funding for abortions. congresswoman ellmers did vote for that one, so did nearly every other republican man and woman. here at the table, former bush-chebush-

bush-chaney advisors and national latino institute for health jessica gonzalez rojas. nice to have everybody here. robert are the republicans embarrassed about needing to pull this? is this about elections mattering and women being -- i'm just wondering about the internal republican politics here. >> well a couple things first and foremost it's great that republican women are speaking up and thinking about this obviously first and foremost as a woman, but also thinking about the optics of this. we also should keep in mind that congresswoman ellmers comes from north carolina which is a deep conservative state, in many ways -- >> excuse me. >> in many ways. >> it's a purple purple state. >> he lost it in 2012. >> purple. >> it is a state that is definitely progressive in many many ways. my point simply is members of congress are getting up to speed about the optics of this and the policy ramifyications of what they do as it relates to the political lens. before it was about this is the

right thing to do and the politics doesn't matter. well the politics do matter here, and i think the congresswoman and other members of congress are saying we need to think about this in a way that not only speaks a language to a new generation of voters but also do we really need to be talking about this when we when we need to talk about the economy. >> interesting question i mean to hear to hear the congresswoman talking like a cable news exec trying to figure out how to get millennials, all obsessed with these days how to get the millennials to pay attention to us is this indicative that the potentially abortion has moved, maybe to the land of marriage equality as no long aerowedge issue to be utilized by the parties? >> i feel like i'm taking crazy pills this week. there is so much about this conversation that has been left out. including the fact that ellmers and many of the other female colleagues that raised concerns about this voted for the exact same language requiring rape victims to report to the police before they qualify under the exception, including the fact

that the dream for the anti-choice movement is to have no rape expectations because they don't think they should exist. they think and it's internally consistent. if you believe it's a leg, you shouldn't have a rape expectation. the worst nightmare this week for the republican party is that now everybody is talking about women and they wanted to be talking about fetuses. and so you know it's great actually to see that republican women rising up but i think we also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that even if this provision is taking out, it's still an incredibly restrictive ban on people who are often in very straightened circumstances and even if the reporting requirement is taken out, it's still unconstitutional, it's still affects people who are in facing really difficult choices in their lives. and it wouldn't be some kind of feminist victory, even if the small provision was taken out. >> it's interesting in part because the focus on the 20 week ban is one that is that hits to the heart of something that is maybe somewhat different than a kind of general pro-life

pro-choice narrative that we hear. so help us to understand 20 weeks, the folks who are generally, typically, seeking termination at 20 weeks, what is happening that leaves people that late in their presentation to seek -- >> i think the challenge here is that, women have so many circumstances, and it's hard we don't to want create a scenario where there's good abortions and bad abortions. we have to be compassionate about all the circumstances that women face. and the scenario's really interesting, and what's happened in congress was not a victory, right. it was taking a bad bill already really bad, harmful bill and making it worse. because hr7, what they ended up pushing attacks low income women. >> how so? explain that. >> hr7 the height amendment, which is a writer to the federation proep rations bill it has to be considered by congress every year and it takes it puts it on steroids it

expands it then cot fies it so i'm working and a lot of my colleagues are working with millennials, with young people with women of color across the country to lift the bans that deny abortion coverage. so to see this cotified would be heartless, target those struggling to make ends meet and out of touch of the lives of women. >> when we come back i'm going interview the lawyer who says that he is prepared to go to court to defend the fetus. he's fascinating, i'm looking forward to this conversation. but i think women would rather curl up with their favorite man. but here's the thing: about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. and remember, you only take it when you need it. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach and abnormal vision.

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okay. so imagine you're a young woman living in alabama not yet 18 years old and you're pregnant. you decide to terminate the presentation. your parents refuse to give you the permission required by law, or you cannot for whatever reason ask them for permission.

you're only legal option is to ask your local court to waive the parental consent requirement. you must claim, and the judge must agree that you are, quote, sufficiently mature and well enough informed to intelligently decide whether to have an abortion. the court must provide an attorney, if you want one. the judge can also if she or he wants to provide another lawyer. one to represent the interest of the presentation itself the embryo or fetus inside the uterus. fetus lawyers, this is a reality under a new alabama law that sets aside state funding to pay attorneys to represent embryos or in the words of alabama's legal code the interest of the unborn child of the petitioner. now an in alabama, a minor seeking an abortion can essentially be put on trial, the fetuses lawyer can across examine the minor, can call witnesses against her, they can drag out by asking for more time to gather evidence and the local prosecutor can do the

same. if the minor goes through all that and is granted permission to get an abortion it's not necessarily over. the embryo's lawyer or the local prosecutor or the minor's parents can appeal. just how does an attorney represent the interests of an embryo or unborn child? our next guest has been that attorney and can explain. joining me from montgomery alabama, is julian mcphillips, a former democratic senate candidate. i am so looking forward to this conversation because i, i am so interested that you are a civil right's lawyer, you do a lot of work around people who you see as the underdog so talk to me about how you see this kind of representational work. what is it that you're doing in this case? >> well first of all, the greatest underdog in life is a baby sitting in a mother's womb with a mother trying to decide what to do. i emphasize the words in life because there's a great life inside the womb and my and influence both scientifically and theologically in this view

that i have. in fact, at five months pregnant, five weeks pregnant there's great brain waves and great heartbeat and baby i believe wants to live. where genesis 1:27 were made an image of god. and so i'm, i'm honored to be able to stand up for it speak out for unborn children and to their pregnant mothers in distress. >> i'm sorry i was going to say, i appreciate and value and in an american context, absolutely believe in the full right you have to have a set of faith believes that would impact the decisions that you make but i guess what i'm concerned about is the idea that for example, an attorney working within a state court would be using biblical language as evidence of a life. that's not, every one agrees

that genesis constitutes an evidentiary basis. >> famous aclu attorney of new york, whose jewish and also proclaimed agnostic was very pro-life because the scientific evidence is so overwhelming that he cannot ignore it. and i look at it from plain light, incredibly overwhelming and this is not just a women's issue, it's a men's issue too because half the baby's born are male, and of course it takes a father to be able to make a mother pregnant. >> so let me ask this then in this, in a case of a young woman, are you cross examining her, like i guess, the other question is so if you're a young woman and trying to make this decision why should i have to answer to you or to a court before i can make a decision about my own health my own body? >> well let me say first of all, i was appointed in 1998 in the alabama supreme court upheld the guardianed a lighten is done

sensitively with great expedition as far as everything is done. it was done in about four weeks from the time that the woman was maybe three weeks pregnant when she came in we had only one other witness other than her herself, and that was a doctor who came in and showed figurines and told what life was at stake at that age and stage. it was done with great sensitivity, it progressed very quickly up to the alabama supreme court where they upheld the right of the 17-year-old to have her abortion without her mother's, parent's knowledge of consent. and there's so much at stake because, you know, not only can the child be maimed for life by botched abortion physically and mentally, but in addition her parents could be saddled with bills that could go on and on and on there's a great deal at stake. >> so let me just i want to ask one final question though is are you at all distressed, in the ways that i am about the idea that there is a separate

interest between an individual and something that is happening in her body that cannot at that moment, exist outside of her body? so the idea for example that i would need a court's permission for, for cancer treatment or the court's permission for, for a surgery that would remove my hand fliek it's my body i guess, i can't understand why the state would have to give me permission. >> well you wouldn't have to because i presume you're well over 17 but someone 17 or younger -- >> a child, yes. >> especially 16 15 14 having an abortion or having a baby could have a great consequences, and at their age and stage, they can't into into a contract legally into any state anyway. and the rules are in alabama and most states allow for the guardian to protect the property interest of an unborn child and if the property interest can be protected, why not the life of. without a life you can't have property. and as a due process in both

life and property. so you know there's great interest at stake, and it's done with great sensitivity and should be, and in my opinion will always be that, and so it may be the forefront of a cutting edge of something, but more and more i mean we recognize the law of the land in the u.s. supreme court decision roe v wade i would say this i want to raise the consciousness of people out there that there's much at stake, great life itself. the only problem with pro-choice is absolutely no choice for the one life that's really at stake. >> thank you to julian mcphillips in montgomery alabama, i appreciate your willingness no to come on the show and give us your point of view and, i also rel appreciate some of the civil rights work you're doing around police officers. great deal of appreciation for that. up next -- >> bless you, thank you. >> up next the brazen efforts to block a clinic. don't settle for 4g lte coverage that's smaller or less reliable when only one network is america's largest and most reliable 4g lte network: verizon. with xlte, our 4g lte bandwidth has doubled

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big battle for reproductive rights in oregon is being waged over one clinic and it hasn't been built yet. planned parenthood has been fighted to build a new clinic to provide abortion and cancer screenings and std testing. it has faced just about every obstacle imaginable making us question just how legal or available abortion really is in new england's, louisiana. a new story fn koz me poll tin.comcosmopolitan.com. the church celebrated the clinic's ground breaking. protesters went so far as to hold up graphic pictures of bloody fetuses against the windows of the church day care. which was full of small children. joining my panel is the author of that piece, jill we've seen your political writer for cosmopolitan cosmopolitan.com.

that is the church i attended in new orleans, my kid was, you know, once a young person who may have even been in that room although clearly wasn't when this happened so talk to me about what kind of resistance this clinic has been experiencing. >> sure, so this clinic has really gotten pushback from every level in new orleans. you know, a lot of the folks on the ground and live in new orleans are very supportive of it. they realize that louisiana has a whole slew of health care challenges and they want this clinic built. but you've seen a lot of folks, especially from the outside, so organized anti-abortion groups as well as the catholic church. the catholic arch die seize wrote a letter basically saying anyone who works here.who works here. you've seen them pass restrictions on abortion access. really give cover to the kind of antiabortion answers on the

ground. >> it feels to me like this is this is the other side of the trap stories we've been reporting on trap laws far couple of years now, you have to have facilities that look like this and do this and so in this case here they're going to build a facility that would do all of those things and they can't get it built because of this resistance. >> yeah and what happens that makes roe not a reality for an outer reach for the communities that need it we work a lot in a place like texas that, you know has done a lot of work on. we're seeing more and more laws in place to essentially eradicate the clinics in the state. it makes it harder for women, if a woman is able to get the money, transportation, take time off of work get the child care to drive to the next state or drive miles and miles to the next clinic, for the women we work with immigrant women have to pass on immigration check point. these kind of barriers that exist, these regulations in place is the agenda is to chip away at the right to reproductive care in this country. >> strategically it's so

interesting because both the guests that we had in the previous block and missed and underlined the fact that the anti-abortion movement in 42 years has not been able to talk women out of needing abortions. it has not done anything about the demand for abortions, the choices that people are making in their individual lives. what is incredibly effective in ending abortion is ending access to safe abortion. making it really really hard to open a clinic to go to a clin toik afford an abortion just like hr7, and that takes the choice out of the woman's hands and makes it an absolute impossibility. at least a safe and legal one. >> interesting when you use that language of safe. jill, i'd be interested in whether or not when you were doing reporting there if people are talking about this we heard from the attorney this language about botched abortions which are extremely unlikely in circumstances of a medical abortion that, you know surgical abortion that occurs for the vast majority of people in the, you know, first trimester, but when we do start making access harder, it does

become more possible. >> absolutely. and i think you're seeing that in texas. i also did some reporting from the rio grande valley and talked to women who said my friend had an illegal termination. it's scare troy think about that happening throughout the united states. you know louisiana was voted by the american life league as the number one pro-life state in the country. louisiana also -- >> more than mississippi? >> more than mississippi. >> okay. it's held that since 2012. given it's sort of long list of anti-abortion laws that's accurate. you also look then at the fact that louisiana has the highest rates of teen presentation highest rates of stds, 58% unattended eded pregnancy rate. you have groups talking about pro-life, but they're really not doing much to help women or to help children in a state that has astronomical poor health outcomes high maternal mortality and infant mortality. sbrergt interrogating what that means,

does it mean supporting the health of women, children, and families, or attacking abortion rights and making them less safe? and that's what you're seeing on the ground in louisiana. >> to me that is part of the difficulty for me robert i actually understand why people can have very differing opinions on this and have a position of belief and faith-based opposition, but what i do find consistently surprising is the oaks tent to which that becomes, not for all, but for some and for some of the most vocal, the only thing they're talking about relative to women's health and children's health. >> the frustrating thing for me i'm obviously not a female but i'm a minority here i don't know and i said this during the commercial break how many pro-life women are part of this conversation to find some type of common ground. i would ask both of you as reporters how many pro-life women did you speak to in texas and louisiana that influence your reporting? >> erin hangs out with them. she rides arounded with them in the scary vans and stuff.

>> we're talking about this over the commercial break, what we isn't that true washington, d.c. a couple of days ago, i think there's tens of thousands of wait a minute, pro-life women marching for life. and the question and also point this out, in texas, in the in louisiana, in mississippi and so-forth, these are elected officials making policy. those elected officials stood before their constituency and i said i believe this is what i believe, and they were voted in. so therefore, this is not just people in these -- >> yeah but, granted, granted, but i would say, i would say you want to be careful with the voted in on people's rights because i'm just saying. i think we all know where many rights might be if they were on the ballot. thank you too, robert and erin jessica, and to jill. and by the way, if you want to know more and read jill's reporting about these efforts to block the planned parenthood clin nick new orleans, go to cosmopolitan.com that's right,

her story is online right now and very much worth the read. we also want to update you now on the mix of snow and rain impacting a huge swath of the country this morning. winter storm warnings are in effect from eastern tennessee to new england. up to eight inches of snow have fallen in parts of new york parts of new england could get up to half a foot. and another storm system is right behind this one, and could bring even more snow to the same areas. msnbc's chris palone is in andover, massachusetts. what's the latest? >> reporter: the snow continues to fall 25 miles north of boston. as opposed to last hour when we spoke be you, now the snow flakes are really small indicating that the air aloft is starting to get a little bit colder, but it is still snowing heavily here. crews are still out treating the roads. most of the cars you see out today, most running errands. most are suvs or small trucks. interesting, not a lot of smaller cars on the road because some of the main roads are doing okay right now, but the side

roads are completely snow-covered. mass state police reported there have been at least two tractor-trailers jackknifed on the mass pike and i-495 which kind of circles boston. so traveling around here is slow. logan airport is not too bad at this point. only about 15 flight cancellations at this point. so it hasn't been too, too bad from an air standpoint but this is a fast moving storm. came in about 5:00 6:00 in the morning, should be gone by 6:00 7:00 tonight. more snow on the way as you mentioned, melissa. and people should stay inside, stay safe and watch msnbc. chris, thanks for your report. up next kissing the ring of the king. of iowa. er that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. ring ring! progresso! i can't believe i'm eating bacon and rich creamy cheese before my sister's wedding well it's only 100 calories, so you'll be ready for that dress

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steve king i'll offer this steve king is not subtle. as a member of the house judiciary committee, he works on the immigration and border security subcommittee. so do you want to know where steve king stands on the issue? well let's start with july 2006 when iowa congressman king brought a proposal to secure the southern border to the house floor. now his plan involved the construction of concrete walls with barbed wire but not just any barbed wire. >> we could also electrify this wire with the kind of current that wouldn't kill somebody but it would simply be a discouragement. we do that with livestock all the time. >> you see what he did right there, right that whole we do it with livestock, so we can do it to people thing. then, during an interview with news max in july 2013 the iowa congressman had this to say about young undocumented immigrants in america.

>> for everyone whose a valedictorian, there's another hundred out there that they weigh 130 pounds and they've got kavls the size of cantaloupes because they're hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert. >> okay so during a paying event in iowa last year dreamer activists erica neil decided to confront representative king about his cantaloupe comment and his position on president obama's deferred action for childhood arrivals and the conversation quickly took a turn. >> you're very good at english. you know what i'm saying. >> i was raised in the united states. >> you can understand the english language. don't play dumb you know. >> i'm not acting like i don't. >> you are because you're saying something that's not true. >> what is not true? >> i spoke of drug smugglers, you're not going to tell me you're one of them are you? >> do a look like a drug smuggler to you? >> yeah that happened. and then there are his tweets like the one the iowa congressman sent on tuesday,

commenting on one of the obama state of the union guests. a college student who benefitted from doca the congressman tweets #obamapervertsdiscretion by inviting a deportable to sit in place of #sotu with 1st lady. i should sit with alito. given his propensity, you might think steve king would be the potential presidential candidate we try to avoid. well you might think hey, this is probably a guy who i shouldn't be seen with he calls guests deportable insults young women to their face compares people to livestock, maybe just maybe if i'm a republican who wants to be my party's nominee for the president, this is a guy i should avoid, right? no. this morning congressman king along with citizens united is hosting an iowa freedom summit. and among those expected to be

there, new jersey governor chris christie neurosurgeon ben carson, ted cruz former arkansas governor mike huckabee rick santorum scott walker former texas governor rick perry, and business executive, also expected to be in attendance today, dreamer activist continuing to protest king's stance on immigration. joining me flou des moines iowa political correspondent, casey hunt. how's it going? you've been hanging with king this morning? >> reporter: hey melissa, yeah steve king spoke earlier this morning, he's clearly relishing his sort of moment in the sun here at the beginning of this 2016 republican's iowa caucuses. they're still a year away but this really is in many ways the starting gun and in his speech king said that he thinks that the person who ultimately is going to become the republican nominee is here today. so of course as you listed you have all of these conservative candidates who have decided to

show up. you also have new jersey governor chris christie who's possibly one of the main people from the establishment wing who's here. we're missing mitt romney we're missing jeb bush also rand paul a potentially key player here in iowa. but, look as you said this is something where, you know, republicans potentially have this as a pitfall for them. when it comes to the general election. and iowa is a place where in the past republicans have ended up getting themselves into trouble. iowa is where romney made those remarks about vetoing the dream act that ultimately came back to haunt him and his campaign said afterwards, hey, this is an issue. so we're going to have to see how, you know, ultimately being associated with king plays out over the next over the coming months. >> yeah this is the central problem right, for i guess for democrats and republicans in the sense that the primary constituency, the folks you have to talk to are going to be further to one side than the folks you need for a general election. have republicans been thinking

sort of in that longer term general election sense or do you see them at this point still thinking in the short game iowa primaries, win in that nomination? >> reporter: well, look you obviously have to win the nomination to win the presidency. that's the tactic mitt romney took when he ran here in 2012 the way he did. i think you're seeing an interesting counterpart from jeb bush who has been sort of running against that if anything, he gave a speech out in san francisco that struck some more moderate notes and essentially said you know what we have to run a different kind of campaign than we run in the past. so ultimately biel see which one -- we'll see which one wins off lot of noise from the conservative activists on the one side traditionally the party's actually nominated the establishment favorite. >> yep, thank you to casey hunt in des moines iowa have a good time out there. and up next the hot mess that is america's most popular sport.

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this week one of the

nation's favorite spectators sport turned into a spectacle. all because of the football itself. nfl announced friday that it's executive vice president and the lawyer are leading the investigation into the footballs, the new england patriots used during last week's afc championship game against the indianapolis colts. so far, the league says evidence suggests under-inflated footballs were used in the first half of the game. but not in the second half. from the moments jackson intercepted one of quarterback tom brady's passes in the second quarter, the patriots footballs were called into question. according to news day, jackson gave the ball to a member of the colt's equipment staff who noticed the balls seemed under-inflated. and thus began ballgazi. nfl regulations stipulate they must maintain 12.5 to 13.5 pounds per square inch. according to espn the league found that 11 of the pat's 12

game footballs were under-inflated by two pounds per square inch. resumes require footballs to remain unaltered after officials have checked and approved them. anyone who breaks the rule could face a fine of up to $25,000 and other disciplinary action. the question remains, how did this happen? the first person the media turned to for an answer was patriot's coach bill belichick whose been an nfl coach for 40 seasons and has 222 victories on board as a head coach. but during thursday's press conference, he told reporters he was shocked to hear about the situation on monday morning, and he doesn't know what happened. and maybe tom brady might. >> tom's personal preferences on his footballs are something that he can talk about in much better detail and maybe information than i could possibly possibly

provide. i could tell you that in my entire coaching career i have never talked to any player staff member about football air pressure. that is not a subject that i have ever brought up. >> so the coach does not talk. repeat does not talk to tom brady about his preferences for his footballs. but after what seemed like a plot to the key player all eyes turned to brady who ha h his own press conference later that day. >> i didn't, you know have any, you know, i didn't alter the ball in any way. i like them the way i like them. 12.5, to me that's a perfect grip for the football. i have no knowledge of anything i have no knowledge of any wrong doing of any -- yeah very comfortable saying that. >> tom brady has no knowledge of anything but with the super bowl now just eight days away all eyes are on the nfl's investigation. and in the statement released yesterday, the league said the

playing rules are intended to protect the fairness and integrity of our games. we take seriously claims that those rules have been violated and will fully investigate this matter without compromise or delaying. the investigation is ongoing, thorough and objective is being pursued expeditiously. joining me now is my host. what's more likely to negatively impact nfl viewership? harboring men who brutally beat their wives and girlfriends or deflated football kps. >> deflated footballs will increase viewership because it's a controversy to take our minds off things that really matter. but i don't even think that's what's going on there. there are some people who say the nfl loves this controversy. i don't really think they do but it is of course silly, silly controversy. not that this wasn't some rule-breaking, i would think of it in the sport of hockey players sometimes curve their sticks too much. it gives them an advantage, and there is a penalty for that. it is a two minute penalty it

is literally called a minor penalty. and that's what's going on here. except you have the super bowl all people want is a tv show everyone knows who, tom brady is. and for a story to be a great story it has to have certain element like characters you recognize, emotional component, and this that has all. and plus we get to say balls back and forth. >> funny balls jokes. listen, if it doesn't having in else, it may be a minor penalty, one of the things i think americans kind of get out of sports is to believe this is okay, this is the one place where wherever the other ugliness is patently racist mascots, domestic violence, head injuries, but when you show up on the field, it is just pure even ground gladiators going at it the we're watching real competition, and if even a small thing is off, then you're like oh well now, now it's the whole thing is gone. >> society might be corrupt, yeah. very comfort to believe have that myth. and i think that this in all

seriousness, i think that i started thinking about the ray rice case and i think it raises a question which is what do we want out of football? what do we want out of sports? we want competition entertainment, but it's clear that a good percentage of us want virtue. and sports are incapable of delivering that. maybe the nfl singularly so but if we look for it as something other than rules, which are generally adhered to and play between the lines which goes to not who your dad was, then sports are great. but if we look for all that is righteous and all that is true we get to this over point that we have now about the deflation their sciences. >> what's worse, deflating your footballs or my team my poor beloved team the saints our defense, you know, bounty? >> yeah except that it's all tied up because there's a big roger goodell criticism in all of them. roger goodell overpunished the saints without sufficient cause,

especially the head coach and other defensive coordinator probably did overstep the lines, but the same thing, goodell sees his job as being the ash or it of righteousness as opposed to the commissioner of the nfl. the guys who get his rules straight. because he said i will be the man who enforces righteousness, we get the wording and phrasing there, if there was a font called handwritten, it would have been written in the handwritten font. and i don't understand why the nfl except for the position they put themselves in can't come out and say, we're going to look that the but you really do need to know. this isn't the biggest deal in the world. someone could give a little perspective, although it is leading literally leading the nightly newscasts on thursday. in a way that aaron rogers murder was not mentioned in the newscast. maybe they do like the attention. >> stay with me there's one more little thing i want to ask you about when we get back first, i do want to note the passing of a baseball legend. ernie banks. a hall of fame shortstop known as mr. cub. he died last night at the age of

83. now banks was the first african american player for the chicago cubs, eight in the majors overall. and banks was named he died last night. he was the first african-american player for the cubs. he received the presidential metal of freedom in 2013. and this morning president obama and the first lady released a statement that says in part quote, somewhere the sun is shining, the air is fresh, and his team is behind him, and mr. class -- "mr. cub" -- is ready to play, too. oh yeah, and frosted! okay, but...what's you're most favorite of all? hmm... the kind i have with you. me too.

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i don't believe so. i mean i feel like i always played within the rules and would never do anything to break the rule. i believe in fair play and respect the league and everything that they are doing

to try and create a very competitive playing field for all the nfl teams. it's a very competitive league. you know every team is trying to do the best they can to win every week. i believe in fair play. >> that was tom brady addressing the media on thursday and answering the specific question is tom brady a cheater. we are back with more on the ever evolving football story that has everybody sitting on edge in a funny way. we spent a lot of time over the past weeks reporting on head injuries, and people say they know it's a real possibility, and football does something else, sportsmanship, and depriving yourself for the good of the team and all of that and i wonder if part of the scandal like this if that's not true really, what are we doing here? >> i believe in the arguments,

by the way. it's not that sportsmanship can't be gotten somewhere else and my son plays on the chess team and if in three years he wants to play football i would let him and i would supervise it and ten years ago we knew nothing about head injuries, and now we are entering an era where we feel like people can be safer, and, you are right, there's a mythology about football and as in most mythsologies, it's a great sport. for a certain kind of kid, perhaps a large lumbering child who wants to be physical you could be a lineman. a lot of positions don't depend on speed like other sports and some people say football shaped

them and then some people say it was the chess club. >> i think you ought to do chess and football. i am into chess. you should not cheat at either one or under inflate -- >> yeah that's a hot mess. that's our show for today. thanks for watching. jeremy scahill will be here for his take on the blockbuster movie, but right now it's time for a preview of alex witt. in for alex is this guy. >> taking a gamble and losing. how many states aren't hitting the jackpot with lotteries? we will tuck about that. sky mall has been grounded. the popular in flight catalogue

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a dangerous mix up and down the east coast right now. snow, sleet and freezing rain. it's expected to be the pweulgest storm of the winter in some parts of the country. new twist in the reaction over the scandal new new england's deflated football. the race for the white house. why one event in iowa could give us a better look at who might be running for president. and then what might surprise you about marijuana sales in one state. hello, everybody. it's high noon in the east and 9:00 in the west, and welcome to "weekends with alex witt."