it's a swiffer wetjet. it almost feels like it's moving itself. this is kind of fun. that comes from my floor? eww! this is deep couch sitting. [jerry bell iii] deep couch sitting! this sunday, can america contain the chaos? a political crisis in yemen. a new king in saudi arabia and isis still on the move in iraq and syria. this morning a former captive's exclusive story about being held by isis. >> they want to be more better than al qaeda. islam. this is why they need to do something more brutal than world trade center. >> is violence in the name of islam really about islam? basketball legend kareem abdul-jabbar talks. >> it's great to be back in the state great state of iowa. >> who will capture the conservative wing of the party? mike huckabee joins us. >> and the national obsession. >> this isn't isis. no one is dying.

>> tom brady is right about that but not many are buying patriot's explanation of deflate-gate. tom brokaw, stephanie rawlings-blake, helene cooper and hugh hewitt. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good morning. the president arrived in india overnight and has already had a press conference where he vowed to continue america's counterterror strategy as the middle east continues to descend into chaos. the apparent murder of a apparent hostage by isis, shown here on the left, a second hostage is still being held. and then there's yemen, a country key to the u.s.'s anti-terror strategy, also in crisis with thousands taking to the streets protesting shia rebels who have seized the

capital sanaa. we're hearing the resignation of president and cabinet. meanwhile, president obama will cut his india trip short to visit the saudi arabia capital to pay his respects for the death of king abdullah. we have something genuinely unique. foreign correspondent richard engel has gained rare insight how isis operates from someone on the inside. he joins me now from istanbul. richard, tell me this story. >> reporter: it's not very often we get the opportunity to speak to someone who lived with isis up close. earlier this year ahmad rasheedi traveled into syria to convince two young girls to leave isis

and leave with his family. the trip didn't go as planned and he spent a month with isis. we've been able to verify the key elements of his story. >> it was full of hate. >> reporter: full of hate? >> you can see fire in their eyes. full of hate. if you smell like european, they're going to kill you. >> reporter: ahmed went to syria looking for these twin girls, who left their home in england and snuck off to syria to marry isis fighters. the family asked ahmed, a friend, if he would go to syria and find their daughters. ahmed was no stranger to civil war. he grew up in afghanistan where he lost his father, his brother and one of his legs. he now walks on a prosthetic. ahmed agreed to go to turkey, hop the fence into syria's isis-controlled north and start looking for the girls.

>> every time we saw islamic state office, we knock on the door. >> reporter: incredibly, ahmed located the girls almost right away in a small town called manbji. >> manbji, i would call it, it's a europe city. >> reporter: because there are so many foreigners. everyone speaks english? >> english, german, french. >> reporter: he found a house where they were living but instead of a warm welcome he had a run-in, an isis fighter. he came to the door? >> he said, i will not allow you to see my wife. >> reporter: then what? >> we get arrested. >> reporter: isis accuses him of being a spy and, worse, a journalist did they torture you? >> some of them. >> reporter: what happened? >> i don't want to talk about it. >> reporter: because it was a personal moment? >> exactly.

>> reporter: it was a terrible moment? >> yes. in the first one week, two week, it was brutal. >> reporter: but gradually, ahmed began to charm his captors. he told them he wanted to join their cause. his father was a jihadist just like them. most outrageously, that he was a doctor. you're a first-year medical student and you start practicing medicine. >> yes. >> reporter: eventually you do gain the trust of the guards. >> yes. >> reporter: they start letting you roam free. >> yes. >> reporter: did you have to beat other prisoners? >> in islamic state, to hit prisoners is part of it. >> reporter: so you started? >> i diplomat say that. >> reporter: what do you? >> i may have beat one or two, but i was forced to do it. >> reporter: now mixing freely among isis fighters, ahmed even managed to logon to one of their computers. what did you learn? >> the connection between europe and syria is, like, they connect everything. >> reporter: did the isis fighters seem worried by the u.s. bomb in campaign? >> no.

was happy about it. >> reporter: because he says being attacked by the u.s. meant they were now just as important as that old american enemy, al qaeda. >> they want to be more better than al qaeda, islamic state. this is why they need to do something more brutal than the world trade center. >> reporter: when you saw the attacks in paris, what did you think? >> i was angry. but didn't surprise me at all. >> reporter: you think there will be more? >> yes. because islamic state attack, they will be big. it will be very, very big. >> reporter: much bigger than paris? >> yes. >> reporter: eventually, ahmed was brought before an isis court and released on condition that he stay behind in syria and fight. he diplomat do that. he snuck across the border back into turkey. he's now wanted by isis. he's writing a book about his experiences. and those two girls he went in to try and convince to leave isis, they decided to stay behind. in fact, they were testifying against ahmed the entire time. chuck? >> richard, a chilling story.

thanks very much. joining me now is white house chief of staff denis mcdonough. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks much. >> you saw richard's story with this former, i guess, isis both captive and fighter in the way he escaped. i want to pick on something he said about how the islamic state embraces the u.s. attacks, because what they want is supremacy over al qaeda. when you hear something like this, and i know this isn't news to you. to you this has been this competition. how does that impact strategy? >> well, this is one of the things we thought about going back to the early days of this campaign. we know that there is an unbelievably important fight going on inside sunni islam. we think that the resolution of this fight is going to be resolved by arab and muslim fighters on the ground. that's why it's been so important to us and that's why the president has directed that our strategy be in support of fighters on the ground, iraqis and syrians, so they win this fight for themselves, for their own future.

that's how it's going to be won. you saw exact lit mind set we're dealing with, chuck, with this organization. that's why we're conducting the strategy the way we're conducting it. >> what's the difference between afghanistan 2001 and syria 2015? >> well, there's a whole range of differences, but i want to make sure that we don't overlearn the earlier lessons or underlearn them. that's why we treat each individual situation as it needs to be treated. and we know that ultimately, chuck, the resolution of these will require muslims and arabs on the ground resolving it for themselves. what can we do in the meantime? we can train them, equip them, make sure we're making them more precise and more deadly. at the end of the day, we have to make sure that we are making unattractive the ideology they're peddling. you heard the hatefulness of it just now. >> yemen has fallen apart right now.

it's not clear who the leader of the country is. president early this morning in india was asked about this and he said -- first of all, he said the reports that somehow counterterrorism operations has stopped is not true, right? so what is the status of the u.s. relationship with yemen right now in counterterrorism strategies going after al qaeda in yemen? >> we continue to conduct very important operations. there's a big difference, by the way, between afghanistan 2001 and syria today. we make sure we're very deeply up in the intelligence and taking action there. and in yemen when we see threats against us or our interests, so we'll continue to do that on the ground. that's what the president was referring to today. that's what we'll continue to do throughout. >> he admitted things aren't perfect and it needs to be refined. what part of the strategy do you feel isn't working? >> obviously, we're worried about the political situation on the ground. as the president said in his comments just this morning, we

know that al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, is going to blossom in a place where the political situation is not as robust as it should be, security forces aren't as well armed, trained or effective as they need to be. when they grow in these dark places, we need to make sure we work with institutions, work with the yemenis and take the fight to them. that's exactly what the strategy is to do without relying on occupying armies or huge numbers of u.s. troops. >> why does this feel more chaotic now than it did 15 years ago? >> i'm not sure what you were feeling 15 years ago, chuck. >> fair enough. people are watching this and saying, geez, everything is on fire. that's what it feels like. >> it does feel like that.

that's why it's very important we react not just to the facts and the emotions. that's important we lay out comprehensive strategy to say, the challenge is not to resolve every problem for country and politicians. the challenge is to make sure there are not threats like from afghanistan in 2001 that materialize here on our shores. that's why we're very diligent about the intelligence. we're very diligent about the cooperation with our partners. and we're very diligent about the fact -- you know, chuck, sometimes when i come on these shows i get criticized from the other side we're too aggressive. the point is, when we see threats to the united states' interest, united states people and united states, we'll take them up. >> i want you to respond to tom friedman, when you call this radical islam. >> calling -- >> calling this war we're dealing with with these terrorist. when you don't call things by their real name you always get in trouble. and this administration so fearful of being accused of islamophobia. by boko haram in nigeria, by taliban in pakistan, by al qaeda in paris, by jihadists.

this criticism the white house refuses to say the phrase radical islam. why? >> let's be clear. nobody denies these are muslims and muslims who claim their warped view of their ideology is what informed their actions, their hateful ideology in this instance. what we simply don't believe, chuck, is they should somehow be seen as representatives of islam. they are not. it's one of the world's great religions. it's the overwhelming majority of muslims don't abide by this hateful ideology so we ought not give them any kind of belief that somehow they deserve that title. >> i want to switch quickly to the issue of prime minister netanyahu speaking to congress, you weren't informed. a senior american official quoted as saying this in haaretz, there are things you simply don't do. he sat in our face publicly and

that's no way to behave. netanyahu ought to remember that president obama has a year and a half left in his presidency and there will be a price. what's the price? >> i don't know who you're talking about. >> nobody in the white house said that? >> it's not me. its not the president. it's not what we believe. >> you don't believe he spat in the president's face? >> here's what we believe. we believe as a general matter we the united states have stayed out of internal politics in countries of our closest allies. that's true whether its great britain where we recently had a visit from prime minister cameron, a four full months from their election, or in israel. that's why we're going to approach it the way we approach it. >> you don't feel this will damage the relationship? >> i'm not going to get hyperbolic or emotional about this. our relationship is deep, multifaceted, on a shared series of threats and also on a shared series of value that one is not going to form overwhelmingly.

>> former obama to united states said president obama ought to cancel the trip. do you agree? >> i'm leave it between michael and prime minister netanyahu. >> thank you for coming on. as we've seen policymakers in washington are seriously alarmed by the developments in yemen. here's why a power vacuum in the country is a nightmare for the united states. yemen is home to, perhaps, the most dangerous branch of al qaeda. in the arabian peninsula or aqa. a group that claimed responsibility for the "charlie hebdo" attack and claimed responsibility for attacks in the u.s. the fall of the country jeopardizes the government. now there are fears the situation could degenerate into a full-blown sunni/shia civil war which could draw in saudi arabia. let me bring in the panel here. helene, let's start with you, this was your beat. the president said, we're still doing counterterrorism there. who's our partner there?

>> we don't know yet. that was the prevailing view at the pentagon, at the state department, is, you know, we don't know what's going on at this point, but we can't -- we can't pull out of yemen. the drone policy is still going on. the united states has to continue to conduct these counterterrorism strikes. across the board in yemen. you're seeing now administration officials quietly talking about whether or not it may be possible for the united states to deal with those who seem at this point to have -- >> they're not aspirational. this is anti-al qaeda. >> the only problem is their entire -- their motto is death to america, death to israel, death to the jews, so it's not

exactly as if we can immediately embrace them. but there are some shared goals there that people within the administration, in the military, at the state department, at the white house are hoping we might be able to capitalizing. >> hugh, big picture, you heard the richard engel piece, when you heard they were embracing the attacks it, what did you think? >> i heard ahmed are attacking every day. in tehran they see a plan coming together. yemen is just the latest extension of iranian power in the middle east. whether it's bahrain where they attempted a coup, winning in baghdad, kuwait, and ties in south america, bolivia. i didn't hear the chief of staff say iran is the real player in yemen and we have to focus -- this is what republicans in congress are worried about. not so much what isis is thinking is what iran is doing. it looks to me like though have a plan coming together and we don't have a plan at all.

>> tom, in saudi arabia, we know when the suspect with the new king, it's going to bring up the shia issue. yemen is a border state with saudi arabia. they're not going to tolerate shias taking power there. >> no. we really don't know what to expect from the new king yet. what i do think is we've seen this in succession in the past, each new king does have his own idea about where they to want take the country and take that part of the world. you know, yemen was -- used by the president not so long ago as an example of where the united states was doing well. we have good operations going on there beyond the special forces. so, it's once again an example of the kind of warfare we're engaged in here. it's utterly asymmetrical. isil or any other jihadist groups can reconstitute themselves on a moment's note, behead a japanese journalist, create chaos and disappear into the hills. we don't is a plan to deal with

that kind of warfare and it's been going on for some time. >> i asked that difference between afghanistan 2001 and syria today and i had one official say to me, everything in syria today we immediately see. we didn't see it in 2001. that's another aspect of the propaganda fight. ready on the right. republican presidential hopefuls take the stage at the iowa freedom summit. former arkansas governor mike hawk bee, the last speaker there, will be my next guest.

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welcome back. this time next year, we'll be on the verge of the iowa caucus and, of course, the entire primary season. the jostling for position on the republican side has already begun. 2016 hopefuls have been gathering this weekend for what's called the iowa freedom summit and they've been making some strong pitches. >> every candidate will come in

front of you and say, i'm the most conservative guy to ever live. you know what, talk is cheap. >> secure the border now. override this president's lawless executive order. >> if you want a candidate who agrees with you 100% of the time, i'll give you one suggestion. go ahead and look in the mirror. if that's the standard we hold each other to as a party, we will never win another national election. ever. >> we need to be the party of the worker. why? well, it's good politics. >> we don't need to spend the next two years beating each other up. we need to tell america what's right with this country. >> if you're not afraid to go big and go bolted, you can actually get results. >> correspondent kelly o'donnell joins me now from a favorite stand-up location for all us in des moines there, in front of the state capitol dome.

talk about the crowd's responses to the attacks on either president obama or mitt romney and jeb bush, what would get the crowd more animated? >> reporter: you know, chuck, it was the most consistent and predictable target to hear comments about president obama, so that didn't stand out as much. it was a head-snapping moment when a figure like donald trump took on mitt romney and jeb bush so directly and the audience really responded to that. it was also common to hear comments about hillary clinton, most directly from hewlett-packard ceo carly fiorina. more about what message should they put forward. still time to take each other on later on. this was more about trying to make the best pitch. >> that's for sure. it was mostly positive, i think, other than a few lines we noted there. kelly, thanks very much. i'm joined by mike huckabee, former governor of arkansas and almost certainly 2016 presidential candidate, also the author of a new book called got

"gods, guns grits." welcome back. >> thank you. i called you an almost certain candidate. you put it this way. i'll put it this way, i left the show i had for six years on the fox news network. let me ask you separate forward. you're a candidate for president until you're not? how should we be calling it? an active candidate for president? >> when you become an active candidate you file the papers. but i think it's clear i'm moving in that direction. i've always said my timetable is later in this spring and that is still the timetable today. >> fair enough. i want to talk about some of the issues that you talked about a little in 2008 in your campaign, you talked about on your show. let's talk about common core. a long-standing you -- you talked about yesterday in your

speech to iowa activists. i'm confused here a little on common core. you have said -- you said -- you wrote a letter to the state of oklahoma in 2013 essentially in favor of common core standards. you said that you thought it was -- that it was near and dear to your heart. now you say you're not a common core supporter. are you not a supporter of brand name common core or stands for everything common core stands for? >> the original intent, which was conceived out of the achieve movement from the mid-'90s that a number of governors, many of them, most of them in fact republicans, put forth to keep state standards not letting the federal government get in control. it was let the states decide the standards but have high standards. i don't know anyone in america who thinks we would be better off dumbing down the schools. that was the genesis of it. common core originally only dealt with two things, language

arts and math. that was it. and nothing in curriculum. >> let me start -- let me move to immigration in the past. you've had breaks with conservative orthodox. you supported a bill that would have allowed undocumented immigrants to receive in-state tuition benefits. you defended that position a number of times. in 2010. you said the question is, is an undocumented immigrant better off going to college and becoming a neurosurgeon or a banker or whatever he might become and becoming a taxpayer and in the process to apply for and achieve citizenship or should we make him pick tomatoes. do you still feel the same way? >> absolutely. look, we force by law people to go to school in our states. as a governor, if we had a 9-year-old kid, didn't matter why he came or what his parents did, the kid had to go to school by law. so, he goes all the way through the public schools of our state. he graduates.

he's valedictorian. he came here when he was 5 years old, went through the entire public school system. the big question was, should he qualify, having been an arkansas student, having been a part of the public schools of that state, valedictorian, should he be able to qualify for the same scholarships as anyone else should. i said, yes, he should. you don't punish your child for something his parents did. i want to get control of the borders. i want to make sure we have a better handle on immigration. it's totally out of control. i don't know we've ever been a nation that said f you're in the backseat of your car when your dad is speeding, we're going to charge you in the backseat for what your dad did in the front seat. that doesn't ring true -- >> you wouldn't roll back the president's 2012 executive order if you become elected president, which essentially gave undocumented children legal status here in the united states? >> oh, yes, i would, because he didn't have the authority to do it. and he said he didn't have the authority to do it when he was interviewed just a year before. >> so, you would roll it back? >> well, here's the problem, chuck.

there's a process. we have a thing called a constitution. and the constitution doesn't allow the chief executive just to make up law. >> finally, i want to ask about same-sex marriage. i have hugh hewitt on my panel today. you did an interview with him earlier this week. i want to play an exchange with you you had with him on same-sex marriage. >> in idea the judge makes a ruling on friday afternoon and saturday morning same-sex marriage licenses are given out, that's nonsense. >> would you counter civil disobedience to clerks? >> the point is states would be in a position that their legislation would create legislation. if they don't, then there is not same-sex marriage in that state. >> i want to clarify. are you advocating essentially nullification by the states if the supreme court legalizes same-sex marriage? >> no. i'm advocating an adherence to the constitution. i'm saying there is a process to change the law.

it doesn't just involve one unilateral branch of government. gosh, chuck, when i was governor, i wish unilaterally i could have done things as governor. it would have been much easier sledding for me if i could have just acted. i'm sure the courts would like to act by themselves. i guarantee the legislature would like to act by themselves. that's why the founders created this very cumbersome, tedious, sometimes disgustingly slow process of changing the law. the courts can't make a law. they can interpret one, they can invalidate one. but even then, as in the case of the dred scott decision in 1857 that said black people weren't human beings, abraham lincoln refused to adhere to that because he said it wasn't a just law. >> i'm saying the supreme court -- >> let me finish. >> if the supreme court on friday rules that basically overturns row v. wade, makes abortion illegal in this country, would you say -- would you support that or do you think

it has to go through the same process you just described? >> well, what i was describing to hugh hewitt by the way on the friday afternoon/saturday morning issue, was a circuit court judge in arkansas who late on friday afternoon, too late for anyone to file a stay or an appeal, issued a ruling. the next morning county courthouses that were normally closed opened up to issue same-sex marriage licenses. and that's what i was saying. you can't just do that. it would be like when the supreme court in my state issued an education funding ruling. we didn't start sending out checks the next day, until the legislature met, changed the funding formula, made it constitutional, and i enforced it through the state's department of education. we have a process. we swear to uphold the constitution. by gosh, i'm convinced a lot of people don't even know what the constitution says when it comes to making law. but judges can't make law. that's judicial supremacy and that is not constitutional. >> all right, governor hawk bee, have i to leave it there.

i appreciate you coming on "meet the press" this morning. stay safe on the almost campaign trail you're on. >> thank you, chuck. >> time now for the panel to weigh in. so, let me start -- hugh, let me start with you since i used your interview there a little bit. his answer on immigration, steve king's not going to like that answer, is he? >> no. in fact, immigration didn't play the role in iowa i thought it would be. common core came up two dozen times. it's unbelievable. when you hit him on that, you ask governor huckabee about that, so i don't think the immigration issue -- steve king may not like, it but the people in the room, the people who won yesterday, scott walker won the twitter primary, carly won the twitter runoff. common core, scott walker going out and talking about the heart about his wife being threatened, about being gutted like a deer, but immigration did not play the role many people thought it would. >> it's your thought on common core. do you feel it has federal control? >> i think that is what the republicans are fearing and that's why many people like huckabee are flip-flopping on the issue.

he stood up for it when he knew it was a state's-directed issue. this was about high standards for all of our kids. and the problem is, he gets so close to common sense and then he feels like he has to pull back when it doesn't fit with the conservative agenda. and i think for huckabee and many of the republicans who were, you know, on the front page yesterday, they're going to have a challenge because you have to be able to take a stand. even if it gets complicated to interpret for the public, you have to keep that stand. you know, people aren't going to respect if you keep flip-flopping back and forth. >> tom, that's what i notice on the immigration issue. it's like he wants -- he was sort of trying to have it both ways on the children issue. >> i think republicans got a real problem when it comes to hispanic vote and the president the other night, in a very candidly political speech, you're going to come against me, come against the middle class, come against the hispanics, the two big voting blocs, important in two years, they were trying to find their way through this. what i was struck by huckabee when he talked about same-sex

marriage, it was all procedural. not whether it's appropriate. it has to go to the legislature. he didn't come out and say, i would lead the fight to make sure we don't have same-sex marriage because this is a train that seems to be moving toward legality. >> there were other interior views. first, i should play that kelly o'donnell was referring to donald trump and his laugh line, or whatever you want to call it. let me play it really fast. >> it can't be mitt because mitt ran and failed. he failed. the last thing we need is another bush. he's totally in favor of common core. he's very, very weak on immigration. >> no one is going to mistake donald trump for a presidential candidate, i don't think, other than donald trump these days but the fact mitt romney and jeb bush were a punch line. >> and they were not there,

which i think was very interesting. didn't jeb bush say something you have to sort of lose the republican primary in order to win the general elections. >> he was almost specifically referring to iowa. >> he absolutely was. i think that's where you -- the republicans keep -- in many, many ways are their own worst enemies. they go so far in the right in order to out-conservative everybody else. you heard ted cruz talking about that yesterday, they arrive at the general elections completely battered. that's where you saw mitt romney talking about illegal aliens should self-deport. by the time they come out to woo the hispanic voters again, they're viewed as out of touch. >> you and i were racing each other to see what did we learn? mitt romney had this meeting with basically his inner circle on friday night. i hear the meeting was not a decision meeting but a logistics

meeting. what did you hear? >> 18 to 20 people in person and on phone, for up to six hours. one described as 80% certain governor romney is running. here's the thing about romney, in 2008 after john mccain lost, no one urged him to come back in 2012. if you go back and you look at people with the exception of al gore as you pointed out to me, no one asks a defeated nominee to come back. mitt romney has people clamoring for him to come back. rick santorum and romney won 30,000 votes in iowa in 2012. those don't matter. the rules are different. what matters now is an idea when early vote willing happen in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and on super tuesday and romney has 30% to 40% of that vote locked up. even if you goes to the convention, he may not be the nominee but he'll pick the nominee. >> i feel like we have four divisions here. feels like a baseball pennant race. the government, the establishment, and then they'll

all meet in cleveland. >> get used to it. this is the process we'll go through every day for the next couple of years. whether or not it serves the nation well, it's very hard to say. >> doesn't matter at this point. >> no it doesn't matter at this point. that's the game. bush and romney off to one side and then the others trying to get the conservative vote. the fact is, we never take a hard look at iowa. you know, remember the iowa state fair vote, for example. and now we've got the twitter vote going on there. and this is how we pick a presidential candidate. i think people on the outside looking in saying, don't quite get it. wouldn't make a decision of my family that way much less picking the most powerful person in the world. >> we'll hit the pause button. coming up, back to the issue of islam. is violence in the name of islam really about islam? and kareem abdul-jabbar will meet me next.

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coming up, are we misunderstanding islam when we talk about these terrorist attacks? kareem a

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kareem abdul-jabbar won six championships and six mvp winners. in 1971 flee years after converting to muslim he changed his name to kareem abdul-jabbar. many fans misunderstood his motives to mohammed ali. over the next 40 plus years kareem abdul-jabbar has a thoughtful and perceptive observer. he joins me now. in a recent column, this is what mr. jabbar wrote for "time," i look forward to the day when an act of terrorism by self-proclaimed muslims will be universally dismissed as nothing more than a criminal attack of a thuggish political organization wearing an >> thanks for coming on "meet the press." >> it's a pleasure. >> let me start with that. how do we get there? >> how do we get there? i think information is the key here. knowledge will enable everybody to understand what exactly we're

dealing with. these people that claim to be muslims and go about murdering people in who rsk ways do not represent the teachings of islam and have made it impossible for real muslims to be understood because everybody thinks that this political power grab that these people are involved in is what islam is about. and it's not about that. >> president bush has said this. president obama has said this. plenty of political leaders have said this. you have spoken out on this issue a lot. yet, islamophobia is on the rise in america, is it not? >> unfortunately, it is. but if we give into just -- it feels good to just blame the religion and say that that's the cause of it. but the causes go a lot deeper and most of them are beyond our means to change. there's going to have to be changed in countries where these people originate, where they have hope where they have

something to look forward to in their lives. most of theme people come from continue continue ri countries where there's no possible way to get ahead. people here in america can look forward to getting an education and a job. if you're raised in egypt or a poor country in the middle east you have no hope there. so the whole idea of progress it's going to have to happen in those countries. maybe some enlightenment will accompany them. but, you know, you have countries over there where people are being executed for witchcraft. this is the 21st century. who believes in witchcraft? but they're executing people for this. it shows you the mind set over there. it's nothing we understand. >> you wrote this when the ku klux klan burns a cross, most christians aren't required to explain how it's not a christian

act. that's what i and other muslims long for. bill o'reilly at fox news thoroughly obviously read your op-ed and had some responses to it. i want to play it and get you to responds. >> but here's what mr. mr. jabar is missing. much of the muslim world apparently does not understand the islamic religion. take pakistan for example. it allows the taliban major human rights violators sanctuary. is that permissible under islam? apparently the government of pakistan believes it is. mr. abdul-jabbar's wish would come true a lot faster if all the muslim nations would confront the jihad. the fbi, largely comprised of christians wiped the klan out, destroying its leadership by vigorously prosecuting the crimes they were committing. >> what do you make of that? >> well there is no one body

that controls all muslims. a muslim in indonesia is under the control or influence of people there. it's not like you have a pope who supposedly is in charge of all catholics. even given that, the pope was not able to curtail the irish republican army who was doing terrorist acts in the name of roman catholics. you can't lump the two together and say that that works. it's a fit. it does not fit. >> i guess his basic argument, though, is that muslims need to step up. it's not just non-muslims, that muslims need to step up and get rid of this radical strain, do they not? >> anybody who respects the rule of law and justice is outraged by these deeds. it doesn't matter what their religious affiliation is. anybody with any common sense and any sense of decency understands that these are horrific acts and they have no

place in my religious -- any religious beliefs. >> why do you think here in america, we talk about islamophobia is rising. in europe it's different than in the united states. there's more assimilation in the united states. >> there's more assimilation. here we have an understanding there's a separation of church and state. so, you can have your religious beliefs but you can be a good american citizen and not be espousing murder and mayhem the way these jihadists are. they have a totally insane idea about what religious life is about and they're getting the world to buy it it's about what islam is about. >> do you see similarities about islam in america about the way >> i think it's quite similar. one of the things the

conservative pundits say is that muslims should criticize these people. we have no influence over them. how even after we criticize them -- >> you called them thugs. you've used various names to describe these folks. >> yeah. they're not -- they're not people who believe in any rule of law. it's about what they're saying and about their political agenda. and we have to learn to separate the two. and understand that these people have a political agenda and they're using religion as a mask to -- to act on their political motives and try to control people and cause all this mayhem. >> if there's one message you would like americans to understand about islam, what would it be? >> that islam is the religion of peace. islam does not tolerant wanton murder and islams are part of contesting this. i was so happy to see in france where they rewarded the young man who helped the people in the

jewish grocery store. he saved some lives and enabled the police to apprehend and kill the assailant. they gave him citizenship within a week because he was doing what he was supposed to be doing. there was a muslim police officer who was killed confronting these people. people have to understand that there are good muslims on the side of what we understand to be the rule of law. just common sense and indecency. >> kareem abdul-jabbar, we'll have an extended elsewhere after the show. thanks for coming on. >> my pleasure. coming up, yes, we're going to talk about it. deflate-gate. i'll go to the nerd screen to explain how it's hardly the first case of bending the rules to get an edge. nerd screen you know i tried one of those bargain paper towels but the roll just disappeared. bounty is 2x more absorbent so one roll lasts longer.

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time for nerd screen and something a little different this week. as tom brady said, this isn't isis and it's not, but deflategate has everybody talking. patriots fans, if you want some ammunition to prove that this would hardly be the first time that a team bent the rules to gain an advantage, well, here's some examples.

sports fans, we take you back to 1951 in one of most famous moments in baseball history. tommy jones' that gave the hated giants the pennant. >> guess what, the giant stole the signs? 50 years later surviving giants players admitted they stole the catcher's signs and knew which pitches were coming. the dodgers pitcher knew it was happening. then, of course, there's the inelegant art of flopping. trying to draw a foul by falling to the ground as though you've just been hit by a semi, though no one touched you at all. common practice in the nba and, of course, if you watch soccer, you know there's a rich tradition of flopping in that sport as well. and then there was the sticky fingers caper. oklahoma raiders wide receiver and defensive back hayes both used stick-um on their hands which helped them catch and intercept plenty of catches. not to mention countless things

teams and athletes have done over the years, like pine tar, george brett, corked baseball bat, high tech swimsuit, plaster of paris in boxing gloves and steroids and blood doping. university of iowa painted the visiting team's locker rooms pink on theory pink would make them less aggressive. why does deflategate matter so much in i've been critical of the media conch of this as the situation in yemen deteriorates but this is the perfect storm of being america's most popular sport, a team preparing to play in the sport's biggest game with a coach that doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. ultimately, for all fans and probably especially patriots fans, this is taking the fun out of the game. that's what's sad about this whole episode. we'll be back in less than a minute. talking to people who made the switch to ford. i loved the look of the fusion...

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on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that is still to come. can this decadent, fruit topped pastry... ...with indulgent streusel crumble, be from... fiber one. fiber one streusel. can't say thank you enough. you have made my life special by being apart of it. (everyone) cheers! glad you made it buddy. thanks for inviting me. thanks again my friends. for everything for all your help. through all life's milestones our trusted advisors are with you every step of the way. congratulations! thanks for helping me plan for my retirement. you should come celebrate with us. i'd be honored. plan for your goals with advisors you know and trust. so you can celebrate today and feel confident about tomorrow. chase. so you can. one thing's for sure you think things through. you try to weigh your options and really check things out before you commit.

because when it comes to time, you want to be smart about how you use yours. you don't leave anything to chance. we get it. ♪ that's why at university of phoenix we offer new students a 3-week risk-free trial. ♪ we know you want to approach education with confidence. learn more at riskfreephoenix.com and welcome back. the panel is here. i wanted to actually continue the conversation i was having kareem abdul-jabbar.

tom, you were intrigued by it. give me your reaction. >> he actually was more critical of the jihadists than any leader of the states over there that we've heard. a couple of years ago i was in a very private dinner with high level members of the family of saudi arabia. i could sit back and listen to them as they were conflicted about whether they should speak out about this or give women the right to drive, in part, because of the religious right in their country. and that they could bring down the kingdom. that is what paralyzed them, in a way. i've talked to a number of leaders in the middle east about, i don't understand how jihadists can go into a mosque and kill 500 followers of islam and you don't say anything but a cartoon appears in a danish newspaper and it sets off a worldwide outrage. how do we solve all that? so inca ream is very, very great for doing what he's doing and the first time bill o'reilly and i have come close to agreeing on something. >> mayor, you were telling me about a meeting you had with turkish muslims. >> i thought they were about to tell me about a big event going on, but i realized halfway

through the meeting they just wanted me to know they're patriotic americans. and i -- it struck -- >> they were concerned somehow you or others would be fearful of them. >> right. because there's so much fear of the unknown. so many people in this country don't understand what a muslim is. don't know the difference between a sikh and a muslim. they are caught up in this fear every time there's an incident. so, there's -- there is a concern in the community, while the leaders don't speak out, there are many individuals speaking out on a day-to-day basis that do not accept the terrorist practices and are appalled, as we are as americans. >> hugh? >> well, have i been teaching muslim law students for 15 years at chapman law school and islam in america is so different than it is in the rest of the word. i was telling helene during the break, the most important book anyone can read to understand that what is going on inside

islam is very complicated. the one thing kareem abdul-jabbar doesn't talk about is numbers. so, the numbers of radical jihadists, which are -- our ambassador in iraq this week said we've killed 6,000 isis fighters. that suggests a number of radicals that is far bigger than anything we've ever confronted in any religious denomination. that's why there's a gap between -- that's why president sisi went to the largest university in cairo this week -- last week on january 1, and said we have a problem in islam. i wish president obama would go to egypt and stand beside him. >> they're crucial. they're crucial to this. it's sort of -- we do tend to have this conversation. as a black american, i know exactly what muslims feel like

because there's so many times when you see something -- black-on-black crime or any type of black crime you immediately think, it becomes a race issue. and with muslims, with what -- when they're talking about it, it becomes the same. i really feel for the point kareem abdul-jabbar was trying to express. >> quickly, lighter note. football, integrity of the game. i know you want the patriots disbarred from the super bowl. >> i think there's a simple way to solve this. #ravens/seahawks super bowl. >> this issue of integrity, it feels as if we're prosecuting a traffic stop here at the end of the day but there's more to it. >> there is more to it. and i hope we'll get to the bottom of it. i've been thinking about this a lot. the only thing more deflated than the patriots' football was the colts' game plan. a softer football didn't make that much difference in terms of the spread at the end of the

game. >> you know, hugh, my -- the part of this that's so sad is we're not talking about the game. and when you start talking about bending the rules, then suddenly sports isn't fun to follow. >> the culture of corruption in new england, but i grew up rooting for gaylord perry, so i can't say much about that. >> we'll have a lot more about the super bowl next week. that's all for today. we'll be back next week because if it's super bowl sunday, it's "meet the press." wl sunday, it's "meet the press."

i was walking b back to my car. >> no matter what you're doing or where you are -- >> back up. you never know what might happen next. >> just pushing and pushing and pushing. >> you could see these big sheets of ice. >> oh, my god! >> how would you react? >> when you're fighting for your life, it's your life or his. >> what about now? >> todd grabbed me and said, "run, run."