but rather than just an experience, a natural experience, we're dealing with the security of the president of the united states. >> susan, thank you very much for joining us tonight. up next "hardball" with chris matthews. escape for new york. let's play "hardball." >> the catch 22 for all of them stares us in the face. many think the only route to the nomination is the clown car riding through a crap storm of

right-wing politics. they're just back from a summit hosted by a crazed u.s. congressman who said most immigrants are drug mules with cabs the size oficant lopes. we have two big stories for you tonight, the politics of nasty weather and nastier weather of republican primary politics. parts of new england are buried in close to three feet of snow, with some of the heaviest snow late today. authorities urged evacuations nearly several coastal areas. wind gusts of 80 miles per hour on nantucket. seawalls have been breached up there, leaving coastal towns under seven feet of water and without power. and it's not over yet. the storm had expectations in new england, but the big surprise as i suggested in the cold open s that it missed the main target in new york. gathom was braced for up to three feet of snow but got only seven inches. philadelphia braced for more

than a foot but saw only a couple of inches. an official at the national weather service apologized for those bad forecasts. last night, we showed you what happens when mayors don't prepare for a blizzard. that and "this is it" was fresh in the minds of leaders when they shut down the entire new york metropolitan area making travel illegal, all for what turned out to be less than eight inches of actual snow. we're watching some surprisingly nasty politics following all of this good news actually. i'm joined by miguel almaguer who is up in worcester, mass where the snowfall is historic. thanks so much for joining us from where i spent four cold winters as a young man at holy cross. but what's happening in worcester? >> chris, good evening. record snowfall here. 31 inches and counting. they're going to beat a record here tonight. this is as you know the second biggest city in all of new england. but right now, we are in the middle of what should be rush

hour. instead all you can see behind me is a huge snow drift, more than 20 feet high. the issue here and across so many cities in the region, what do you do with all this snow once it stops snowing. that's not going to happen here until tomorrow morning. as you mentioned, in places like nantucket, they have other worries. that area has been completely cut off. folks can't get in or out. they're facing tidal surges, as well as the loss of vital communication systems like 911. so they're bracing there, as the storm continues to batter the region. in boston also a record more than 18 inches of snow. the snowfall still falling there. we were there with doctors earlier today who were brought in to the hospital by police escort. one doctor even skied in. today there was a birth of a baby boy during the storm. his mother telling us she didn't know the storm was happening during the birth and she was thrilled to have missed it. an epic storm and many folks

glad they missed it. this storm has not been devastating. many cities are shut down, but the services will likely re-open tomorrow. but it will take a long time for some of the coastal cities to dig out. >> what's your assessment in the bitter cold of worcester, that they got all the snow. gotham, new york city, somehow whisked right by this whole thing. >> it's brutal in worcester, wicked cold. as you mentioned, new york and new jersey seem to kind of just be breezed and bumped by this storm. it was snow across the area but it was not what officials had predicted, which was several feet of snow. instead it was more of a dusting. they shut down major transportation hubs. a major issue in new york city and the storm never really materialized. of course the big debate, should the governors and city leaders have done all of that since the storm wasn't a major impact. they say yes they should have because if they didn't and the storm had pile-drifed into that

city and it did not, there would have been chaos. they say they did the right thing. >> miguel almaguer in worcester, mass. william pitman is the police chief 28 miles in the ocean. and that town has suffered some of the worst damage in the storm. what's it like on the island? >> it's cold and it's getting colder. the wind's still blowing out here and the snow's coming down and the winds are still, i'm guessing up probably in the 30s steadily at this point. so we're getting a lot of blowing and drifting snow. and we still don't have power restored to a lot of areas on the island. am i looking at main street here? where's the flooding going on up there? >> the flooding happens down around harbor area down easy street broad street north beach street area. they run parallel or around the harbor. as the winds come up and the

tide comes in the storm surge on top of t brings it over the seawalls and floods the streets. >> permanent damage what will it be? anything? >> not really. we got a couple of houses that probably have some damage. they had water, couple feet up the walls on the interior down on washington street. but most of the damage is caused from tree limbs and power lines down. >> it's one of the most beautiful parts of our country, nantucket, massachusetts. thank you very much william pitman from the police force on the island. politician in new york and new jersey are battling criticism that they overreacted by shutting down all transportation and making travel actual actually illegal. >> there are going to be a lot of critics saying there was too much done for this storm. what would your response be to that? >> well my response would be we were listening to all of you. >> my job as leader is to make decisions, and i will always err

on the side of safety and caution. you can't be a monday morning quarterback on something like the weather. >> we had a storm several weeks ago where i believe the forecast was for a relatively modest amount of snow, and we then had seven feet of snow in buffalo. i do not criticize weather forecasters. i learned. >> wow. dan malloy is governor of connecticut. ask jason simon is with me in washington "the washington post" weather editor. i'm completely on the side of politicians who play it safe. you know better safe than sorry we were told when we were 3 years old. i think after blasting the hell out of people like lindsay over the years and mike bollandic in chicago and the new mayor down here because she got one inch wrong in her first action. it was two inches not one. she didn't have the plows, got blasted for that.

now people are blasting people like cuomo and de blasio. i don't want to blame them. christie ought to just keep quiet. attacking the media and the dumbest thing i ever heard of. we didn't create the weather reports. they come from the weather reports. anyway, your thoughts? is it better to be safe than sorry? >> it is. i've been through a bunch of these, irene and superstorm sandy. and 40 inches in february '13. you should always err on the side of caution and safety. that's why i closed our highway system down at 9:00 last night. but it also allowed us to clean up a lot quicker than we otherwise would have been able to do. you learn as you go along and you always should err on the side of safety. listen let me say this to the meteorologists, thank you, you're giving us upon best information you have available. we need to act on it as leaders. it's not just public safety although that has to be the largest portion. it's about how quickly you can

recover after the fact as well. i'm sitting here listening to you talk about worcester, i played a lot of rugby against holy cross when i was at boston college. i have a nephew and a niece who live on nantucket. he's an orthopedic surgeon out there. and of course i was a prosecutor in new york city. these are vital places. the people deserve to be protected. that's our job. that's what we got elected to do. >> let me go to our expert here from "the washington post." jason, how good is weather -- i mean, my mom used to stay up all night waiting for the weather. i said what are we farmers? i still got to go to school. dad's got to go to work. why do we check the weather? how good is it? is it 50% right? 70% right? >> weather forecasting has made tremendous progress over the last few decades. about three decades ago, a three-day forecast three decades ago is as accurate as -- a one-day forecast now is a lot more accurate than a three-day

forecast was several decades ago. >> i think you meant that backwards. >> yes exactly. >> it's okay i get it. so was there two models for the politicians and the mayors to look at? were they looking at twos possibilities or what? why did they shut it down? >> there was a lot of differences in the various models. some were showing three feet of snow? new york city, some were saying closer to a foot. >> it's eight. eight inches. >> the models were wrong. our science is improving, but sometimes, especially when we're right on the edge of the storm, the models can be just a little bit off. and it was a difference of 60 miles. eastern long island got 30 inches of snow. new york city got eight. so it's a fine line. it's a tough call for forecasters in that situation. so what they were doing, looking at this information and telling the officials, look this could be really bad.

we could get up to three feet of snow in new york city crippling the most populous city in the entire u.s. >> so what's going to be the message to future politicians when lindsay made a fool of himself and marion berry for the hundredth time. is it the message going to be don't be too careful? you better be smarter than you are. nobody's smart enough to predict the weather. you just admitted it. you can't predict the weather. you can't. >> but i'll point something out to you, they had the type of snow right this time. they told us what it would be and that it would be a lighter snow and that it would be a lot more wind pushing it around and that sort of thing. err on the side of public safety. you're going to get blamed for a lot of things as a mayor. i was a mayor for 14 years. they're going to forget that you kept them safe. and they got mad about that. they're going to remember if you don't pave the road if you don't plow the street if you

don't pick up the garbage. those are the things that people remember on election day. >> why do politicians wear those -- what do you call it? foul weather gear costumes when they're inside? i was watching cuomo the other day and you've got your tie missing, and had that's fine. but they look like they're off the george banks out there catching fish. all they're doing is walking outside for a few minutes for a presser and they dress accordingly. is this to identify with the people? with the working guy out there shoveling snow? what is it about, the costuming? >> the people are at home watching. that's how they're dressed. i will also tell you, it's fun. we got to wear ties all the time. to have an excuse not to wear a tie is not such a bad deal. >> i thought governor cuomo needed a harpoon with him last nim night. >> anyway thank you both. thank you for that interesting

admission that you can predict three days out, as well as one day. >> can i make one more point? >> sure. >> forecasters also have to accept some responsibility here just in that there were a range of possibilities and i don't think we did necessarily the best job at communicating that there could be a huge spread. i think there was too much focus on the worse-case scenario. we have to do a better job -- >> the politicians are still going to have to make a call in that range. because if it comes out high, they're dead. if it comes out low, they're surviving. none of these guys are going to get beaten because they overreacted. anyway, thank you very much. >> you bet. >> lots of news on the 2016 race for president, clipping along there, the right-wing clown car chugged into steven king's confab in iowa over the weekend. what a joke that was. and i mean it. meanwhile, president obama is at 50% in another new poll which would mean a lot to a lot of

people. it's called success. that's good news if your name is hillary clinton, who will latch on to it. plus there's a debate over the latest movie grabbing this country. "american sniper," big question, does it glorify war? i have an opinion. or is it anti-war? it may be a little of both, but i think it's more of the first. anyway, the answer might depend on your politics. and can any of these four republican governors beat hillary clinton? they may have the best chance. you're looking at them. and let me finish with the international holocaust remembrance day. this is a day to never forget. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

a texas judge ruled late today that the case against former governor rick perry can proceed. the judge denied a motion to dismiss the indictment against perry. last year a grand jury indicted perry on charges of abuse of

official power and coercion of a public servant. he's accused of publicly threatening and then carrying out a veto of the state funding per fubl -- for public corruption prosecutors after the democratic district attorney refused to resign following a conviction for drunken driving. what a mess down there. we'll be right back. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. sign following a conviction for drunken driving. what a mess down there. we'll be right back. to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours.

if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips tongue or throat or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial.

welcome back to "hardball." over the weekend, the iowa congressman, steven king who gave us the unforgettable image imagery of cabs the size oficant lopes, talking about immigrants and the new noun deportable as in that guy is deportable to describe the children of imgran. congressman king presided over the summit many considering to be the starting gun for the 2016 race. let's listen to king and the

potential contenders. >> do you believe the next president of the united states will be speaking from this stage to you today? [ cheers and applause ] as do i. >> hey, iowa, can anyone stop hillary? >> yeah, and let's borrow a phrase -- yes, we can. >> in a republican primary every candidate will say i'm the most conservative guy to ever live. gosh darn it hoo diddly i'm conservative. you know what? talk is cheap. >> like hillary clinton, i too have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles around the globe, but unlike her, i have actually accomplished something. >> i think people like the direction they're headed. maybe that's why i won the race for governor three times in the last four years. >> i can give you a bit of news about mitt. most of you know he and jeb had a private meeting in utah that was so private it was on the front page of the "new york times."

they called me late thursday night after they met and told me they were dropping out and throwing their support to me. >> starting today right here in iowa, let's give it to them! >> if i was too blunt, too direct too loud and too new jersey for iowa, then why do you people keep inviting me back? it reminds me of tagging up in baseball. candidates have to touch first base before rounding the horn, but is steve king the base republicans really want to tag? joining me now is john braybender and joan walsh. i got to start with the home team here joan excuse me ladies second here. i think there's a catch-22 in republican politics, if you want to win the presidency, you can't win unless you get the nomination. you can't get the nomination if you straight-arm the right-wing. you have to go to the fringe to

show you will be their president as well as other people's. isn't that a problem? the para docks is what can get you elected can prevent you from being elected, so i think there's advice that comes with that. whoever the nominee is this time has to go beyond checking the boxes. i think they are to be able talk to hard-working families, middle-income families who feel like they've been abandoned by both parties. but particularly our party. most of our candidates don't believe in the minimum wage. i think that's outrageous. so whoever is going to win -- >> my argument, i guess my parents were among this crowd, there are a lot more cloth coat republicans than mink coat republicans. there are a lot more regular people in the republican party than bushes or romneys, yet you don't hear from them much. >> here's the case with the

republican party. establishment and anti-establishment. then we add social conservative and tea party and libertarian. one addition will be middle income hard-working families. there's going to be a real effort to say, we understand. other that didn't exist last time was national defense and terrorism. we're seeing in polls data what was a 2% sure is creeping up to 10%, 11%. that's where a lot of candidates will have to show they can be commander in chief. >> joanie, the last three republicans to win presidency. except for w., which means getting more than the other guy stuff, basically foreswore all social stuff. nobody thought ronald reagan was serious about abortion rights. he wouldn't even go to the pro-life rallies every year, certainly not the w.a.s.p., the george bush sr, he had nothing to do with that stuff. and the same with w.

he appreciated the times aren't right to revisit that issue, the people aren't going to change. it's not going to happen, so i'm going to leave it alone. it seemds like the only way a republican can win, i don't take seriously a lot of the platform. i sort of promise you i'm not going to mess with it. like same-sex is somebody really going to go out there and run against same-sex in 2016? >> i think you'll see some people doing that. what george w. bush did, he learned from his father's defeat. he spent a lot of time courting conservatives. i don't know how much he could have done. >> what did he do? >> exactly. he didn't do very much. but the thing that was different back then, they had a narrow casting way of getting to key voters that didn't necessarily turn off people who didn't necessarily hear that message. now you've got, i think it's an incredible development that you have all of these people including top-line contenders going to kiss the ring of steve king, which again, it's not just

that he's anti-immigration. that's a point of view. it's that he's so mean about it. if there was one thing that conservatives and moderate republicans seem to agree on, you know, to the extent that something like john saying we shouldn't be talking to and about people this way if we want them to vote for us. here is steve king who said some of the worst things about immigrant families that i can think of on the national stage. why? >> joan, it's interesting, and john it's interesting, there's a number of ways to describe someone here illegally. undocumented workers, i think which is what they prefer. you can call them illegals, which is pretty damned cold, and you're saying that's all they are is illegal. the worst of these is deportables. like collectables. why would you call somebody a deportable? it's not a situation or a huge -- or a human experience. it's not recognition of a person's humanity. >> it's cruel.

>> they broke the law in here for good economic reasons, to get ahead, but you can't dismiss them as not people. deportables? why would this guy call them that? why would anybody in your party who wants to get elected talk like that? >> let me say this. if you watch the speeches, i thought they were pretty remarkable. people didn't get themselves singularly defined on the social issues as sometimes as a party we force ourselves to do. >> who avoided that? >> i think carly fiorina was the only one who really spent time talking about the life issue, and talked about hillary clinton. you know, candidates talking about -- >> no, chris christie -- i'm sorry, i'll stop, john, chris christie and scott walker both said a lot about being pro-life and scott walker who i think otherwise did a very good job there, felt that it was important to tell the country that he defunded planned parenthood. that's not a mainstream issue. >> he went beyond that and showed how he created jobs

created a story about taking on the unions. >> why do you have to show -- why is abortion such an issue in the party at this point? >> our platform is pro-life. just like your party -- who shows up in primaries -- >> you know, i've told you my voting record. it's not that simple. i've left of center, i will admit it. >> i'm a political consultant. i'm not a policy director. who shows up in primaries? democrat or republican are the most conservative and the most liberal. frankly, these people know that and they've got to run that. >> you know what i'm against your party, and i don't want it to be a partisanship, but i can't stand the fact that you fight too many wars, and i think the iraq war was insane and really bad for our country. and your attempt by your party, reince priebus all the way down to repress black voting in this country. voting rights are sacred, and you've got guys all over the country, republicans as republicans saying we're going to screw the black voters. that's what you're doing. so we we get in the partisan game, i couldn't defend that if

i were you, and i don't think you will. >> the goal of the republican party is very simple. if you have a right to vote, you should vote. >> i wish you guys would act like that. >> this is about stagnant -- >> i'm with you on that. i've got to give joan the last word. what do you make of the fact that the president who they have loved to say was under 50%, the latest poll is 50%. if the economy gets back into shape again, real wage growth, which is the key. he'll be up in the mid 50s. your thoughts? >> that's the trajectory. i don't want to predict anything. but he is up over 50 and people didn't expect him to get there. there's a lot of talk about how hillary clinton will have to distance herself. she may want to be the third term by the time the second term is through. it's good for democrats, good for the president, also good for the country, because it really is around the issue of economic

recovery. it hasn't gone far enough especially when it comes to wages, but things are better. >> as jan kennedy said, victory has 100 fathers, defeat is an orphan. right now the president is going to have a hundred fathers. anyway thank you, john. >> wait until you see -- >> thank you, joan, as always. up next, the republican governor of indiana is catching heat from both the left and the right. for doing something that we usually see dictators do. he's not that bad, but what he did is really awful. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

america is looking for a new path forward, and starting today, right here in iowa, let's give it to them! >> honestly governor perry, why bother buying the smart guy glasses if the real affectation you're going for is a big red moustache and a couple six shooter aimed at a cartoon rabbit. we're going to show them here in

iowa. ba-bing! ba-bing! >> back to "hardball." i love that guy. that was jon stewart's take on rick perry's over-the-top performance at the summit in iowa on saturday. among the candidates at that event, wisconsin governor scott walker was especially well received by conservative activists, but now facing backlash from the band using the music he used. most famously used in "the departed" is by the dropkick murphys, a punk rock band. and they had a bone to pick i'd say, with the possible 2016 candidate. quote, governor walker please stop using our music in any way. we literally hate you. that was nice. finally documents obtained by

the indian star shows that mike pence wanted to create a state-run news organization, an outlet funded by taxpayer money and coordinated by the governor's own communications director. according to "the indianapolis star" the endeavor will make prewritten news stories to indiana media, specifically targeting smaller newspapers that have only a few staffers. needless to stay the endeavor has sparked backlash not only from real journalists, but also from small government conservatives. david reed told the site a state-run taxpayer funded news organization designed to compete with independent news outlets is a shocking development to many rank and file conservatives. might as well call it pravda.

up next, the debate over the hit movie "american sniper" is it pro-war or anti-war? it's a rorschach test, depending on who you are and how you look at it. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

hey what are you doing? i was thinking about taking this speed test from comcast business. oh yeah? if they can't give us faster internet or save us money, they'll give us 150 bucks. sounds like a win win. guys! faster internet? i have never been on the internet and i am doing pretty well. does he even work here? don't listen to the naysayer. take the comcast business speed test. get faster speeds or more savings, or we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business.

>> here's what's happening. new england has been battered by the blizzard of 2015. more than a foot and a half of snow has covered boston. parts the of massachusetts were pummelled as well. in southern maine, a warn is in effect until 4:00 a.m. eastern time. and president obama traveled to saudi arabia to pay his respects. they discussed the campaign against isis and iran's nuclear program. now it's back to "hardball".

welcome back to "hardball." "american sniper" continues to dominate the box office earning more than $200 million in the last couple of weeks. it's also set up a debate about whether the film encourages war, and even glorifies snipers. michael moore has been one of its most vocal critics, tweeting, my uncle was killed by a sniper in world war ii. we were taught snipers were cowards. they'll shoot you in the back. snipers aren't heroes. he later tweeted what would jesus do, hide on rooftops and shoot people in the back? rogen compared it to inglorious baft wards.

he tweeted, my comment was not supposed to have any political implications. somebody else did it. bill maher criticized what he called the lack of nuance. >> "hurt locker" made $17 million, because it was a little ambiguous and thoughtful. this one is just american hero he's a psychopath patriot and we love him. >> well, on the other side sarah palin this weekend slammed, who else, hollywood liberals, who criticized the movie. >> you know why that movie is breaking records all over this great nation? it's because america needs a hero again, and chris kyle has been that man and screw the left in hollywood who can't understand what it is that we see in someone like chris kyle and all of our vets. >> well to discuss all this issue of left or right and pro-war, anti-war former

vermont governor and presidential candidate howard dean. christina bellen tony and msnbc contributor jonathan capehart. start with people that saw the movie. did you see the movie? >> i loved it. it was a -- sarah palin makes my head explode. sure, chris kyle was a hero, but a complicated hero. he is a flawed hero in this movie. this movie -- it's a war movie, it was a tough movie to watch. his first kill in this movie is a child. >> a child carrying a grenade. >> yes, a child carrying a grenade, but still a child. we, this nation, filled with all these people most of whom will never see war -- >> would you shoot a child -- -- who you knew was going to throw a grenade at american soldiers? would you? >> that would be my job. >> that's exactly the way i looked at it. >> but the thing about that movie is -- he didn't see the child and say, okay, time to

kill the kid. you saw the struggle. >> and he was calling in with his command. he was checking, and it wasn't sloppy, it was professional. >> the point i'm trying to make here is about us in this country, i think it's like 1% of the american population has been in the military, you know? if anything it reminds us of the choices, the hard choices and the hard things that people in uniform -- >> s.e.a.l. training alone is frightening. how about s.e.a.l. training alone? that was pretty frightening, they're basically tied down at the surf coming in, bakley being -- basically being water boarded by the surf lying there in the cold hours and hours and hours of it and everything else they have to do, just to qualify to be a seal. >> it's a terrific film, part of it -- what jonathan is getting at is what this does to communities that are touched by war, and what happens when people come home.

and whether or not it wins awards, people can talk about caring for veterans and caring for people who have mental illness. even though we all know what happened to him at the end of the film and in real life. he was ill and he had some issues that he was grappling with. so that's something -- >> he killed 162 people as part of his job. >> it's a conversation the nation should be having. if you disagree with palin or anybody else that's what we fight for in this country, the right to be able to speak about this. >> on real time with bill ha maher, you said people who go see this movie are people who are angry. the actor gary sinise had a strong reaction. he wrote, you have a write to make stupid blanket statements suggesting that all people who see this film are angry, but how is that helpful, sir? chris sile's story deserved to be told. it tells the story of stress that multiple deployments have. it helps to communicate the toll that the war on terror has taken on our defenders.

your reaction. >> something which i almost never done i'll apologize to the veterans. i haven't seen the movie, and i think it was wrong. i make no apologies for the thousands of right-wing nut jobs who have been twittering me but i do apologize to the veterans and this movie was much more nuanced than i thought. >> but you won't take the word nut bags back? >> no upon the people who treated me with lots of bad language they're chicken hawks. i have a lot of respect for the people who serve this country and i apologize. >> thank you, sir. i think it was -- if you're an 18-year-old kid, and you're this gung ho, there would be a recruitment film? do you see it that way? >> i don't see it that way. i think it was a dramatization of someone's book based on

their own personal story and hollywood told a good story. war is ugly. i'm a woman, but it certainly -- i think gets at some of the worst elements of it, what you're leaving behind. >> i think it would make a young guy think here's my chance to be a guy. >> i think people join the military because of the situation. a ton of people joined after 9/11 because they felt patriotism patriotism. >> as did chris kyle. >> yeah. >> i think these films don't make people join the military. >> i think it's the circumstances in the country. >> i don't like the way they called the arabs in iraq savages, not -- certainly some -- someone who gives her son a grenade, knowing the kid would be shot is a savage, pretty much. but the idea that arabs, and somehow there's a connection between 9/11 and iraq. that's something i will not accept. the iraqis did not attack us. they had nothing to do with 9/11. that was the asset pitch to get us in that war. >> but i think that gets to sort of the uncomfortableness, the messyness of war, the messyness

of that situation. iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but we lived through that. we saw what happened with the bush administration conflating 9/11 and saddam hussein. people went to iraq under false pretenses. >> including that guy. >> including that guy, for the wrong reasons. they went there, they had a job to do. it was horrible, it was ugly, it was messy. as kristina said, they came back with problems. we have to remember, this wasn't just one tour of duty that chris kyle went through. he had four. if i have any fault with the movie, it is that the movie did not spend enough time talking about his transition after that last tour home. it was over within ten minutes. >> the same thing with "unbroken" the whole story about the guy coming home a drunk, a miserable life, cut out of the movie. you don't have to apologize in the next segment. i don't think i like apologies.

i've been through them enough. >> i don't like them either but this one was worth it. >> i sometimes wonder if they even work. anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. up next, jeb bush, mitt romney and scott walker the new kid in the quartet, can any of those four beat hillary clinton? my hunch is unless you're a governor, you need not apply. you have to be a governor to out-credential hillary clinton. this is "hardball," the place for politics. o help get rid of my mucusy congestion. mr. mucus: oh, right then i'll swing by in like 4 hours... just set aside a few tacos for me. man: forget the tacos! one pill lasts 12 hours. i'm good all day. mr. mucus (to himself): wait! your loss. i was going to wear a sombrero. [announcer:] only mucinex has a bi-layer tablet that starts fast, and keeps working. not 4, not 6, but 12 full hours. start the relief. ditch the misery. let's end this.

house republicans are still investigating benghazi.

in today's hearing, frustrations spilled over. on both sides of the aisle. here's elijah cummings on the benghazi committee. i'm sad to report there are major problems with this. >> he says that democrats have been excluded from key parts of the investigation, including interviews with witnesses. meanwhile, trey gowdy of south carolina fired wack at allegations he's drawing out the investigation. >> this is not a political exercise for us. we're going to ratchet it up, because i need access to the documents and witnesses. we need to be able to conclude our work. >> congressman cummings also said today he's spoken to hillary clinton about the possibility of her testifying before the committee. according to cummings, quote, she did not hesitate for one second. that would be quite a day when she's back. and we'll be back after this.

>> we're back and today another candidate tossed his hat into the 2016 ring. i think he has a shot -- scott walker. he took his first formal step toward a presidential run by filing paperwork to set up a committee which will help him bid for the white house. he's the fourth governor signaling intentions to run for the gop nomination next year. he follows chris christie who is all over the place, mitt romney who is definitely back in and former governor florida governor jeb bush will all be looking to run. back now with a former governor

who has also run for president, howard dean, and christina and john. i want to ask you about the governors. i think beating obama will require winning on the executive issues. >> you mean hillary. >> beating the record of obama. i think they'll be running against obama. >> if the election were held today he's over 50 for the first time in eight months. >> takes a while to adjust. >> yeah it would be already. i do think, obviously i'm by yosiased biased. the only problem they have there's nobody with more experience in the country than hillary clinton. nobody. in doing all the things that presidents do. but i do agree, these four governors, and one of them will probably get the nomination. >> i just wonder we've had a good president who's a great talker, but i suggest that gear's been worn out right now. >> it depends on how they do with voters and on the debate stage with whatever the current events are. we never would have predicted the 2008 presidential election would have turned on the

economy. there was such little talk about the economy in any of the debates and that was the defining issue in 2008. so you just don't know. that's one of the great things about what we do. we get to see it and forget the polls. they're well-known because we're covering them. >> i think walker's a sleeper. i think he can win it. >>ed good thing about the '16 crop so far, compared to '12, is that say what you might want to say about governor romney and the race he ran, there are no clowns yet in the republican field. >> you catch rick perry's act this weekend? >> we're talking about the four that we just mentioned. these are four serious people. so i look forward to seeing the debate that happens between them. i hope it's serious. i hope it's serious. >> it will be serious. these are four serious people. it will be interesting, the best politician of the four of them is scott walker. he's also got the worst record with the highest unemployment and the fewest jobs created. but given his age, i think most

likely romney or bush will win the nomination and he'll be a viable candidate for vice president. >> >> governor walker likes to say in his speech he's run for governor, what three times in one term and he's won. you've got to have some -- [ all speak at once ] >> he's highly polarized. >> we agree he's in the run. howard dean, christina bellen tony and jonathan capehart. i know who you are, we'll be right back after this. [ laughter ] that's why puffs plus lotion is gentle on sensitive skin. so you can always put your best face forward. a face in need deserves puffs indeed. and try puffs softpack today.

the conference call. the ultimate arena for business. hour after hour of diving deep, touching base, and putting ducks in rows. the only problem with conference calls: eventually they have to end. unless you have the comcast business voiceedge mobile app. it lets you switch seamlessly from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business.

let me finish tonight with this. today is international holocaust remembrance day. i want to thank martin goldsmith for alerting me to this on his program over the weekend. martin has written an important and evocative book on this subject which chronicles his journey, his grandfather and uncle, their trip on the way to auschwitz. both could have been saved had the united states let them enter this country, had the ocean liner st. louis been allowed to disembark back in 1939. i urge you to get a copy of his book and join him on his journey of discovery.

quote, i've come to feel a deep need to connect with that vanished generation, with those members of my am/fm who were murdered a decade before i was born. the holocaust truly happened, in europe. with all of the science and christian tradition, and that reality is something we're best to accept into our very souls. only by knowing it truly happened can we guard against any of us creeping back to that horror. my uncle george was a tank commander that liberated one of the concentration camps. he told us of what he saw, the starving survivors. i recommend everyone go to the united states holocaust museum website and watch the documentary there, free on the holocaust. it tells the story of how the nazis isolated the jewish in germ, as they tightened the

noose around them. it was all done with meticulous ruthless precision. take a look of it tonight on the holocaust memorial museum website. no one should ever forget. that is hardball for now. thanks very being with all of us. "all in" starts right now with chris hayes. tonight on "all in." the measure of success in government is how many people are no longer dependent on the government. >> first a big weekend, and now bigger news from scott walker as the billionaire kochs lay out their 2016 plans and rupert murdoch steps up his campaign to stop mitt romney. robert costa on the evolving presidential field. then, in the wake of the storm, who shut down the new york city subways and why didn't anyone tell the mayor? >> we found out just as it was being announced. >> plus, the marriage equality fight gets ugly down south. alabama's first openly gay lawmaker threatens to out