rint to move our society forward. a budget shows our values. i hope as we negotiate in washington we make americans what is valuable. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. the football season is over. the "hardball" season begins. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews back in washington. the "hardball" chris matthews by the way, not that brilliant guy on the seahawks. what a whirlwind right now politically before the super bowl weekend which seems a good while ago now, mitt romney made his big announcement. it was just friday that he made the announce pt that he's out of the race for 2016. the reason? well it seems to have come down to a combination of rejection by a lot of the money people that

romney was counting on the prospect of jeb bush staring him down, and mitt's own family. he didn't want to spend the next year and a half slogging through hell. now comes a new poll of likely iowa republican caucusgoers showing that jeb bush is going practically nowhere out there with that crowd. this crowd that has picked people like mike huckabee and most recently rick santorum to be their champion. what gives? if the money people seem bept bent on jeb, where is the party going to go to find a leader that can unite and excited enough to give hillary clinton a fight? john is a republican strategist and robert gibbs is the former white house press secretary, and an msnbc contributor. as i mentioned, a new poll from the "des moines register" just out and bloomberg politics shows jeb bush has ground to look up with the conservative grassroots. look at this poll. shows the lead of the pack in iowa is the new kid on the block, wisconsin governor scott walker followed by rand paul and mike huckabee no surprise there. jeb bush is fifth with 9%.

the guy who everybody calls the front-runner, fifth out there. he also lags behind on favorability compared to other potential candidates. scott walker has a net favorable. that means favorable over unfavorable of 48%, meaning 60% of voters have a favorable view on him. only 12% have a favorable view of well, the others anyway unfavorable view rather. rand paul, mike huckabee, rick perry and others all have high net favorables among likely iowa caucusgoers, they all look good out there. jeb bush his net favorability is low one digit three. so for chris christie it's even worse. negative. he's the only big negative out there. 18. john why don't they like christie out in iowa among your party? >> first of all, you do have to take some of this in perspective. everyone was talking about michele bachmann when she won the ames straw poll only to finish last in the iowa caucuses. with that said, iowa is a conservative state. chris christie is seen as relatively moderate jeb bush is relatively moderate. the real problem for this in

this poll is not where they are in the mix. it's that they have high unfavorables. they have to change a lot of minds which is difficult to do especially because they're not the type that's all of a sudden going to move toward the right. i think they have some problems. issues like common core, immigration. their positions are just not going to play with mainstream republicans in iowa. >> what i'm stunned with is how much knowledge they have of these guys. i mean, these are regular voters guys. they're not people watching television all night long. they don't real all the papers all day long. they seem to know all the candidates. they have a personal opinion of all the candidates already two years out. they've had to judge that chris christie is not their guy. but they really like this new guy, scott walker who's the governor of wisconsin. and they know all about him, enough to say he's a 48% net plus. that's a hell of a lot of information, robert? >> well i think, one, iowans take their role exceedingly seriously. >> yeah. >> a lot of these -- none of these guys are going to seal the deal with any caucusgoer until they literally have the chance to meet them five or six times.

secondly caucusgoers are the highest interest primary voter, so if you're going to participate in a primary that's one thing. if you're going to participate in a caucus which is a different level of commitment, it's that probably top 10% or 20% of people that would normally participate in a primary. heavy information voters. people that have a lot of information and are following these guys well before they ever come to iowa to play president. >> it is impressive that people know this much. anyway, this weekend scott walker sounded very confident. i've always thought he was a sleeper but i wasn't that sure. let's watch him. >> 99% chance you'll run? >> oh, i don't know that i'd take the odds. i just would tell you one thing, after three elections for governor in four years in a state that hasn't gone republican since 1984 for president, i wouldn't bet against any on anything. >> he also took a jab at both hillary clinton and by implication jeb bush. let's watch. >> people want new, fresh leadership with big, bold ideas, and the courage to act on it.

if we're going to take on a name from the past which is likely to be former secretary of state hillary clinton, i think for the party we need a name from the future. >> well, there you go. they got rid of mitt now this is an age war. this is logan's run here robert. get rid of the old guys. >> the great thing about that bank shot was the explicit criticism of the ex-secretary of state and the implicit criticism of the -- >> jeb. >> -- jeb bush. so i think it's way premature to call anybody the front-runner. i think you have tiers of candidates and i think clearly in the top tier of candidates in iowa scott walker probably jeb bush, and to some degree a social conservative in that poll probably mike huckabee. >> yeah. >> and truth is what puts jeb bush in the top tier isn't his standing in iowa as much as it's his standing writ large and his ability to raise probably the $100 million it's going to take to win this primary. >> have you been out talking to enough people to know whether people are just in a mood like most people who vote want to pick the next president, but

early going they want to send a message, too. do you get a sense this might be one of the year -- the democrats had it a long time ago with mcgovern. it felt good for the people on the left. they felt great being for mcgovern. he was anti-war an intellectual, a war hero but also a professor. he was perfect for the democratic left. do you think your party might be on to a year that's just a little bit wackier than most years? they're just going to pick somebody like goldwater or mcgovern and say we don't give a damn about the close next coming next november? we're going to say what we really feel. maybe one of these other guys maybe ted cruz maybe ben carson, maybe rand paul. is it that wild a year? can you tell if that's out there? >> here's the problem. the republican party isn't a single entity anymore. it's not homogenius anymore. it's broken into libertarians, tea party, social conservatives, establishment. working class. you know, anti-terrorism. they're all different types of republicans so it's splintered. the biggest difference you're

going to see this time in is some sense we've become the democrats. we don't have -- >> i agree. it's the other way, too. it's working the other side. >> we get a lot of people out there, but i will say this i think they're all quality candidates and the other thing to watch for this year no one is going to win iowa with 30% of the vote. someone is going to win it with 20% of the vote. that's what's going to happen in state after state. you're going to see five or six candidates all the way to the end. >> really? they can afford it? >> the way it's set up this time with a lot of states proportional, you don't have to play statewide. >> it sounds like your party in '08. >> well, it is, and the truth is -- john's absolutely right. usually democrats have these big personality and issue-driven primaries with 10 or 12 people anteyou don't know what's going to happen. republicans are an establishment. they pick the guy that didn't win the nomination last time. those roles are complete ilyly reversed this time. >> people in the race like sharpton played in the democratic party a couple of those times. you had the most interesting guy in the debate. you're not going to win but you're definitely going to be

the best show. i just wubdonder, you won't answer my question, could this be a wacko year? we don't care who's going to win against hillary. we're running a guy we believe in, like a cruz a ben carson or rand paul. >> i will say this. the primary thing is voters are not going to say in the republican primaries who is the best november candidate. they don't care about that. >> that's what i'm asking. >> does the candidate represent their views -- >> that's the way the democrats used to be. >> i will tell you, i think we have credible candidates so you can get away with it this year. you can pick any of these -- >> well -- >> i think they'll be competitive. >> you think ted cruz would be competitive with hillary clinton? >> i absolutely do. >>s that remibdsnds me of the old days on the left. let me ask you about the democrats. i didn't intend to ask about it. i don't see any rebellion against hillary clinton yet. of any significance. i mean rebellion. >> no, i don't think so. >> they're open to her. >> i think she has specific challenges that are apart from who the republicans nominate. i think first and foremost she

has to articulate exactly why she wants to run. and what she'd do as president in a compelling way. secondly, i think what's going to interesting to watch, the obama campaign felt this in 2011 and 2012 without contested caucuses and primaries it's not as easy to get people excited as it is if you're going through that process of every two weeks having this thing. so there's a lot that -- i silltill think there's a lot she has to two. i think this race is going to be super close in november of 2016. >> in november. >> in november. i don't think there's any doubt about that. i think quite frankly you've seen reince priebus say this and others. i think republicans -- i don't think they're going to pick iowa, they're not going to look at it and think, we have to pick the best person in november. by the time we get into the fall, there's no doubt this is not going to be just to send a message election. >> if hillary clinton has elizabeth warren get in the race does hillary clinton -- >> she's not going to get in. >> let's say hypothetically she would. >> biden has a better chance of

getting in. >> who wins iowa between elizabeth warren -- >> she'd make the most noise. >> which is the biggest nightmare hillary clinton has. >> i wouldn't necessarily bet -- >> anyway look. i disagree. i don't think hillary clinton should go for a close election. i know you're not saying that. i think she should go for a 54% victory because she could bring the house in bring the senate in and really rule this country. this country needs somebody to get control of it. i don't want another split down the middle. and i think -- i'm more conservative. so i would think she should go more to the center. people who say, follow elizabeth off to the left. i say there's a way not to get 55%. go to the hard left. anyway, we're already out of time. god -- you're really good at this. you're, of course always brilliant. >> you played a great game in the super bowl. >> did you like these receptions? >> absolutely -- i didn't think you had it in you, but wow. >> the plug he got during the super bowl was better than any of the ads people paid millions and millions for. i bet viewership triples tonight. >> thank you, al michaels.

robert gibbs, it was a thrill to be at the stadium and watching all this. coming up, chris christie steps in a minefield over vaccines. the new jersey governor says there needs to be balance parents need a choice whether to vaccinate their kids. science, of course, says otherwise. what's christi up to? i think he was playing to the group we were talking to out in iowa. president obama's budget out there today as a bold progressive statement. he wants to raise taxes on the rich and spend money to put people to work. good stuff. corporate tax reform tax reform, infrastructure. everything i've been believing in. i don't think it came from me but it's certainly what i think is right. it shows me he wants to lead with swagger and dare the republicans to say no to a really good centrist idea. if you watched the super bowl last night, you heard plenty of talk about this guy, chris matthews. the seahawks' chris matthews. finally, let me finish with why i think the democrats need to hold their convention next year, national convention, in philadelphia. and this is "hardball." the place for politics. shopping online is as easy as it gets. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple?

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well new england is celebrating its super bowl win and the patriots are expected to arrive in home in boston's logan airport in the next few minutes but they're arriving home in the midst of a huge winter storm, the second in a week. nbc's miguel albegare is in boston and joins us with the latest. will they be allowed to get off the plane? >> reporter: they will if they're wearing jackets. the temperatures are going to plummet over the next 24 hours. i should point out boston has had some 14 hours of steady snow here and also those whipping winds were actually on boylston street this is the parade route. this is a problem, the reason why the parade has been delayed until wednesday. the street is a mess. there are mounds and piles of snow five six feet high in this area. and it's only getting worse. we're going to see steady snow over the next few hours and then it's going to turn to bitterly cold temperatures. roads across this region are a mess. in new york, there were several spinouts, at least two people were killed on the roadways.

the conditions here only getting worse. as it gets colder. but the good news is the snow will stop overnight. it's just going to be those frigid temperatures they're going to have to deal with. school has been canceled tomorrow as well as, of course as you know, the parade has been pushed back until wednesday. when the patriots do make their way out here, it's certainly going to be cold but probably not snowing, chris. >> great story. boston is strong miguel. you know that. anyway miguel, thank you up in boston, for that report. we'll be right back. introducing preferred rewards from bank of america the new banking rewards program that rewards our customers, every day. you'll get things like rewards bonuses on credit cards.... extra interest on a savings account... preferred pricing on merrill edge online trades and more... across your banking and investing get used to getting more. that's the power of more rewarding connections that's preferred rewards from bank of america. ♪ there's confidence.

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welcome back to "hardball"." new jersey governor chris christie today opened a pandora's box over public health suggesting at a press conference in londed today parents should have more of a choice when it comes to vaccinating their kids from infectious diseases like measles. >> do you think americans should vaccinate their kids? is the measles vaccine safe? >> all i can say is we vaccinate ours, so you know that's the best expression i can give you

my opinion. it's much more important, i think, when you think as a parent, than what you think as a public official. and that's what we do. but i also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. so that's the balance that the government has to decide. it depends on what the vaccine is, what the disease type is and all the rest. and so i didn't say i'm leaving people the option. what i'm saying is you have to have that balance in considering parental concerns because no parent no parent cares about anything more than they care about protecting their own child's health. >> there's a baseball player trying to tag every base at once. anyway, his statement comes as the country here, our country is going through the worst measles outbreak in two decades. a disease many thought had been eliminated just 15 years ago. in 2014 the number of reported cases of measles was tripled out of previous years according to the centers for disease control, with 644 cases against 27 cases. that spike is attributed to the growing anti-vaccination movement in this country. those who believe there are dangers associated with childhood vaccinations since

the -- despite the scientific evidence thereto is not. president obama is far less ambiguous about the subject when he was asked about it over the weekend. >> the science is you know pretty indisputable. we looked at this again and again. there is every reason to get vaccinated. there aren't reasons to not get vaccinate vaccinated. >> are you telling parents you should get your kids vaccinated? >> you should get your kids vaccinated. >> christie's statement, "the governor thinks vaccines are an important public health -- there's no question kids should be vaccinated." joining me howard dean, a medical doctor of course and "usa today's" susan. dr. dean i have to tell you, i don't understand what game christie is playing there. he seemed to be saying everything at once. the only reason i can think he's playing that game is for trying to reach the republican hard right or somebody out there on

the yahoo regions that doesn't like science. i don't know what he's up to. what do you think he's up to is. >> i think he's pandering. this is the second time for him on public health. in general, politicians shouldn't talk about something they don't know anything about. he clearly doesn't know anything about public health. he tried to quarantine some lady who came back from liberia who did not need to be quarantined, and she -- unfortunately, he stuck her in a tent outside a hospital in new jersey and she finally got to go up to -- got to go up to maine which is where she lived, and the governor up there carried on about it. you know there's a science associated with medicine, and people probably ought to listen to what it is before they come to these kinds of conclusions especially people who are running for president. >> susan, i didn't understand -- i listened closely. i read what he said before. he was asked about the measles epidemic then he ended up saying we ought to have parental choice of some kind, and then his office put back, well in cases of measles, they should be vaccinated which is what he was asked about. so what game is he playing? >> well you know if he's --

>> i think you're --. i'm sorry, go ahead, susan. >> susan first. >> let's look at the politics of this. i don't think this makes much sense for governor christie because in the first place if he's pandering the way dr. dean says and there's a perception of that, that's quite at odds with the kind of truth tellers, i'll stand up and tell you like it is image he has. and if he's pandering, he's pandering to voters who are not really his voters. the voters who are alarmed about vaccinations and likely to disbelieve that they're the right things to do for their kids and they home school their kids, this is not the christie consolation voters. those are voters who will go to somebody like mike huckabee or rand paul. >> another perspective republican candidate weighed in on the vaccination debate today suggesting vaccinations can cause mental problems. here's senator rand paul on cnbc earlier today. earlier this evening. >> i've heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines. i'm not arguing vaccines are a

bad idea. i think they're a good thing, but i think the parents should have some input. the state doesn't own your children. >> okay. >> parents own the children. it is an issue of freedom. >> dr. dean governor dean that seems like a pretty loosey-goosey case of causality here. if you heard what he said there, they ended up having problems after they were vaccinated. well, people have problems after they, you know do everything. go to new jersey for the weekend. i don't know. everything happens after something else happens. this causality argument i think is pretty weakly explained there. he didn't explain how vaccination leads to autism or anything else. >> well, first of all, it doesn't lead to autism and that was grossly discredited. i mean, that never nouldshould have been put out in the press 15 20 years ago when it happened. second of all, i actually believe this disqualifies rand paul from becoming president of the united states. if you're a physician and you say what he just said then you are clearly willing to override any set of facts that you ought to know. it's one thing for christie to

blunder his way through this and try to pander. for rand paul to deny his entire education as a physician, i assume he went to a good medical school and knows something about medicine. that is truly appalling. and he -- a guy like that should never be let near the white house. >> well, he may not be. anyway, in 2009 a campaign letter to governor christie himself, appeared to suggest a link between vaccinations and autism in children. "i have met families affected by autism from across the state. many of these families have expressed their concern over new jersey's highest in the nation vaccine mandates. i stand with them now and will stand with them as their governor in their fight for greater parental involvement in vaccination decisions that affect their children." this is so much part of home schooling, all this sort of you know, get out of the government get the government out of the way, the government's bad. anything the government does is bad. and it's like this -- >> so, chris -- >> back to you then back to susan. go ahead, governor. >> okay. just very quickly, this is -- look, just so i don't want to be

unfair to parents who are legitimately worried and anxious. they're not legitimately, but they're anxious and worried and that matters. but the issue is this. there are 310 million people in this country. a fairly significant number of them are either very small, that is too young to be vaccinated and, therefore, at risk, or immu immuj nocompromised. before vaccines we used to lose almost a thousand kids to measles. this is not something you can just choose for your own kids. this affects every kid in your school that your kid goes to, this affects a great many people besides you. >> and, of course that goes to real consequences of just having this debate because it feeds the concerns of parents who maybe have kids at the age that they should be getting vaccinated to worry about whether it's the right thing to do it. it makes them perhaps, not vaccinate air kids. that affects, as governor deeb dean said, other families who for whatever reason their kids haven't been vaccinated. that's why we've seen the numbers in the measles epidemic across this country.

this is not really just an academic debate that politicians are having. it seems irresponsible in the absence of being able to cite actual medical evidence that shows what they're saying has some validdy. >> 2011 study by the cdc, the centers for disease control, found out 40% of american parents delayed or refuse the some vaccinations for their children. the data from pew research shows a generational shift on childhood vaccinations. those over the age of 65 believe vaccination should be required and 20% said parents should decide. young adults 18 to 29 years old, 59% said evacuations should be required. 40% say let parents decide. when we were growing up, the debates of fluoridation of water. it save teeth, it was decided to have fluoride in the water. we have better teeth than other

countries do. we know that. the word went out on the hard right wing, oh thirks, this is a communist plot that euthanizes or makes us weak or stupid or whatever the plan was. it was supposed to do something to weaken us and got all over out there on the right wing. the whispers, you know what fluoride does to you. i don't know. whatever. >> in fairness it's not just the right, there's also some people on the left who believe this often and sort of higher income groups that this sort of an spiteentitlement not to do this. there are a lot of things we eat that are not good for us. a lot of antibiotics in meat we shouldn't have. hormones injected into chickens and meat and things like that. i understand why people are worried about this stuff. but i think part of it chris, is i grew up when -- i mean i knew people who had had polio who were limping around who were in wheelchairs as a result of that. my step-grandfather had polio and limped for his entire adult

life. so i think for our age, we've seen what happens when you don't have vaccines. i think that's something the 18 to 29-year-olds, you cited in the poll, have never seen. they don't understand what the real danger to the public is by not getting vaccinated. >> and a lot of the young people today are not so pro-choice because they don't know what it was like to live in an environment where you didn't have a choice. >> and if we go in this direction on vaccinations, maybe we'll once again have a situation where people see the consequences of having these diseases come back. >> yeah. i hope not. i hope that's not the only correct if we have at hand. thank you, doctor and governor dean for joining us. great to have your expertise. i mean that. susan page as always. up next had the seattle seahawks won last night's super bowl, a guy named chris matthews might have been the mvp. that's a very good bet. four interceptions. big ones. he has a great name but an even better story personally. we're going to tell you the story of the other chris matthews maybe the better one. this is "hardball." i'm not that nice.

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welcome back to "hardball." more than 114 million viewers watched the new england patriots take home the win in super bowl xlix according to nbc. that's the largest audience, catch this for anything in television history. it was a close game of course but there was one player with the seattle seahawks with a scarily familiar name, at least to me. his name, chris matthews, of course. listen to this. >> you know, we were talking about chris matthews. darrell bevell, the offensive coordinator nicknamed him hardball for chris matthews of msnbc who's here at the game today. and this chris matthews, the seahawks' chris matthews said i can't believe it every time i wikipedia myself it keeps coming up with the other side. >> all right. here we go. a little hardball with chris matthews, down the field, this is the one. >> oh, my god. what a catch. wow. anyway, despite the seahawks',

matthews had a great night scoring a touchdown before halftime. he had plenty of fans on social media throughout the game. the #chrismatthews has been tweeted out thousands of times since last night. what's even more amazing is this other chris matthews' back story. this time last year the 25-year-old was playing for the canadian football league and working two jobs in the offseason. one as a security guard and another at a foot locker. anyway, he got the call from the seahawks in february to try out and his response at first, according to "sported illustrated" was "i don't get out of work until 9:00 p.m. i don't know if i can make it." a mu minutes later mad you smatthews' agent called saying, are you out of your mind? he made the flight but also made the seahawks practice squad. he was burpmped up to the practice squad this past december. not only two months later he's scoring a touchdown in the super bowl. that's a cinderella story. up next, president obama's

still got that swagger. he laid out the priority r for this year. big spending on infrastructure and a tax hike on the wealthy to pay for it. he's daring the republicans to say no to the deal. you're watching "hardball." "hardball." the place for politics. feels like an eternity. and who could blame you for craving our largest variety of succulent lobster dishes all year? dishes like dueling lobster tails. with one tail topped with creamy shrimp and a second tail stuffed with tender crab. i was hungry already and now you show me lobster lover's dream® let's make this dream a reality. a delicious, delicious reality. but one that won't last forever, so hurry in. ♪ by 1914 the dodge brothers quit the ford motor company and set out on their own. they believed in more, than the assembly line. they believed driving was a holy endeavor. a hundred years later, the dodge brothers spirit

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i'm richard lui in the msnbc newsroom. former rap nug l suge knight was charged with attempted murder related to an alleged hit and run that killed one man and injured another. nfl hall of famer and network announcer warren sapp was arrested in arizona, allegedly solis sis eded a prostitute. the team plane just landed in boston. the victory parade is now on wednesday. now back to "hardball."

the economy is doing better but you laid out a bunch of proposals that you know cannot get through this congress that is run by republicans now. isn't that kind of counterproductive? >> no, i disagree with that. i think republicans that believe that we should be building our infrastructure, the question is how do we pay for it? that's a negotiation that we should have. >> you're offering tax hikes for the healthy. that's something they couldn't get through the congress when it was run by democrats. >> savannah my job is to present the right ideas, and if the republicans think they've got a better idea they should present them. but my job is not to trim my sails and not tell the american people what we're doing. >> welcome back to "hardball." today president obama revealed his budget proposal and mirrors the goals he laid out in his

state of the union. unabashedly liberal. while its chance of getting through a republican-controlled congress are slim to none it sets the tone for the kinds of fights to come. revenue from taxes on the rich and corporations and uses that money for infrastructure projects. and spends money on proposals like free community college. we lay out the challenge. "the spending blueprint challenges republicans to make politically thorny choices between defending current tax rates for the rich and obama's proposals to boost spending for the middle class. the pentagon. and companies that build domestic infrastructure. it also plays to the president's democratic base to increase spending for programs like education and childcare and expanding social security benefits for some, and same-sex couples." jonathan allen joins me now. along with "huffington post's" sabrina sidikn and "mother

jones'" david corn. sabrina, first of all, you started with this piece. it seems to me that you go where the money is and you go where there might be a chance for a deal. now, republicans have always believed in highways. they love it. construction jobs. companies make money off that. not just workers but businesses. they love bringing home the bacon. we're going to get the road fixed in your neighborhood, get the bridge fixed, sewers paid for. all kinds -- water projects. all that stuff has always been immensely popular with republican members of congress and corporate tax reform of some kind to lower the rates. >> right. >> that's the door opener two doors opening here. >> the president is daring republicans to basically vote against taxing corporations that keep profits overseas and taking that money and using it for infrastructure. and what you see today is a twisting in the business community, they want the infrastructure projects. they want the money spent on that. they obviously don't want the taxes. even within the business community, tech companies, farm pharmaceutical companies, they get hit hard by this.

other companies make roads, bridges, work on the waterway i and want to see this spending. he's trying to divide republicans and peel some of them off and bring them to democratic constituencies doing the same thing by offering more money for the defense department in exchange for domestic programs. >> sabrina, the question to you is, where's the politics in this? i know where the parties stand. join go for the middle, is the middle more concerned about income inequality right now? are they more concerned about protecting the rich so they can invest more? >> i think the reality is -- >> which way? there's an answer, there's a question here. which one is it? where's the politics now? is it fighting the problem of income inequality or the old thing of softening the bed of the rich? >> by the income inequality. i think even republicans, you've heard them acknowledge a lot more in recent months the need to address americans who feel left out of this economic recovery. as positive news abounds about the obama administration's economic progress, they have to find a new area to go after and that's those americans who aren't actually feeling the benefits. one of the things that republicans face in terms of a challenge is we finally got them

to admit that the rich are getting richer. the problem is the proposals to actually dress that issue are ones that face deep divisions within their party. or pose deep divisions. >> what are they for? >> there are some things they are for. now paul ryan did say he would be open to extending, for example, the earned income tax credit. that's a low-wage subsidy to childless adults. they also are interested in reforming the corporate tax code in some way. it's worth noting that the idea of taking money from overseas profits and putting that into spending toward infrastructure is something that dave kemp, former chair of the ways & means committee also proposed at one point in time. >> you have to remember there are in the republican coalition the tea partyers who really don't want any new spendsing. they don't want whether it's highways, they don't care. they get voted out of office. they say they don't care. and if it comes from obama, they really don't care for this. the old gop which used to have some -- the congress used to have maybe some mayors or governors who had become senators who liked all the shovel-ready projects that we

talked about particularly in states like pennsylvania and midwestern states like michigan and ohio. they're going to be up against their right flank. particularly if it comes with, you know attached to tax hikes. paul ryan's already out there talking about envy economics. any time you talk about taxing the rich the republicans start to run away. no matter what it's for. >> well, that's why because they have to pay the piper. who's paying for the campaigns? anyway republican congress man paul ryan -- the koch brothers like that. the chairman of the ways & means committee which he is now challenged the president's plan on "meet the press" yesterday. let's watch. >> what i think the president is trying to do here is to again, exploit envy economics. this top-down redistribution doesn't work. we've been doing it for six years. look it may make for good politics. it doesn't make for good economic growth. >> okay. who's smart enough to tell me if we're getting anything done here or if we're going to be talking about infrastructure for the next 20 years or actually fix this country? anybody who gets to travel overseas, whether you go to

switzerland, germany i was there last year or china i was there this year with my wife. she's in the hotel business. she brings me along. >> what a deal for you. >> you see the world passing us. america used to be the ones that had the rltailroad across the continue innocent. >> airports. >> and you get the best airport in johannesburg or anywhere in china. >> we're not going to catch up under the obama administration. as dave was talking about, there are too many republicans in congress who oppose giving him any of those larger -- >> what's he willing to put on the table? what's the president willing to cut to pay for infrastructure? doesn't he have to put up something on the table is. >> that's what remains to be seen, what he might be willing to offer them. i think that we have to also see whether now that they have control of both changes of congress they feel they have more leverage in showdowns over the death ceiling, funding the government. they're playing games with dhs funding. >> it's a clash of fundamentals because the things that they want, at least the base of the party, go completely against what obama wants to do.

what can he give them? they want low tax cuts and no government. they think government spending is the problem. so obama wants to get the infrastructure going, invest in education. there's a law in this budget jonathan, for nih spending medical research. you think people can get behind that? most republicans don't want any of this. what do you offer up to get them off the dime? i don't know. >> they might do chain cpi. >> the highway trust fund is running out of money. they're going to have to do something to keep alive just the basic base level. there are a lot of other ideas in this tax plan for overseas. >> let's be honest. >> you might see an increase in the gas tax. the white house is not ruling that out right now. you've heard republicans on capitol hill start to say they might do that. they have to find some money to keep road projects going. >> i know this sounds very traditional, but we're spending a lot of money we don't have. debt, debt debt. we're going to add $6 trillion debt right in this document the president came out with today. $6 trillion. the fact there's a lot of things we're not even paying for let alone coughing up a few bucks to pay for something. >> we're doing it less than we were a few years ago.

>> that's a great argument. we owe more money than we make. anyway, the roundtable is staying with us. up next what did mike huckabee mean when he appeared to be comparing gay to drinking alcohol or using profanity? this is "hardball." the place for politics. so when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb hepatitis b, are prone to infections or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.

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fuming. here he is. >> i think they're terrible people. okay? i think they're terrible people that would do that to a 91-year-old man with a broken shoulder that to physically threaten him. that is -- that is beyond any normal behavior that i have ever observed. >> well, senator mccain called kissinger one of the great states meb statesmen of the 20th century which is by many people's standards debatable. we'll be right back. kid: hey dad, who was that man? dad: he's our broker. he helps looks after all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy?

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those who live up in the bubbles of new york and washington are convinced that if we don't capitulate on the same-sex marriage issue and if we don't raise the white flag of surrender, and just accept the inevitable, then we're going to be losers. i tell you, tim, it is the absolute opposite of that. and if the republicans want to lose guys like me and a whole bunch of still god-fearing bible believing people go ahead and just an do on this issue, go ahead and say abortion doesn't matter either because at that point you lose me, i'm gone. >> i'm gone. pretty strong statement by mike huckabee. we're back. that was the governor of arkansas past. he vowed to leave the republican party there in establishment leaders don't -- this weekend, krn's dana bash asked huckabee how he could square those convictions to his openness about having gay friends.

he wrote about that in his book. let's watch. >> you write eloquently about it being a religious conviction to oppose gay marriage but then you also talk about the opposed to gay marriage and the biblical backings of being heterosexual. how do you square that with being open to having gay friends. >> people can be my friends that are life onstyles that are not my lifestyle. i don't drink alcohol, but most of my friends do. you know i don't use profanity, but believe me i have a lot of friends who do unless i can get a new version of the scriptures it's not my place to say okay i'm just going to evolve. it is like asking someone who is jewish to serve bacon wrapped

shrimp in their stores. jonathan and sabrina and david, david what can you say on this -- >> i order shrimp in delis. again, being gay is a lifestyle, a choice -- >> so is it a person that believes in nature not nurture. >> he says he is not evolving and he is a little bit. >> sarcasm in the morning here. >> we compared homosexuality with pedophilia andneyrophilia. >> that is what he used to say.

alcoholism, i'm not a signist, but alcoholism has a genetic component. it gets passed down, but to be serious, he is expressing a view that is not bigoted about policy per se but about the people. and he is basically saying they're making a choice to do something he finds to be reprehensible. forgetting the science for a minute, that could turn off a lot of voters and certainly in the general election. >> i don't think we have to decide nature versus nurture. every time i talk to someone who is day, they tell me very early in they're they knew their orientation. it wasn't an argue or a stuff call. so i'm sort of with the nature thing, but it could be something from a very young age -- >> he wants to position himself

as a values candidate and the socially conservative wing of the party which is already a crowded space. he is trying to get out ahead by generating these head lines. >> sabrina, you're new here and i want to try something on you. could it be that he means it. this is what he thinks? we always assume they're -- sometimes they tell you what they think. >> my previous comments this is about as far as mike huckabee can go when you look at the turning tide of support. he sars he will neverys he will never evolve on the issue. so he has to find a less demeaning way. >> i think he is trimming his sails. i'll go drinking with a gay person, he is essentially saying, it gets him attention. he gets talk and radio shows

welcome but i don't think this is a winning strategy. he won iowa in 2008 but he didn't go anywhere after that. >> in a primary, i think it is a great strategy and it has a benefit of being what he believes. >> i think that is him. >> and one of the thing social security there was a recent pole that shows among voters in iowa the area he is boxes himself in is the top three issues are terrorism, the deficit, and jobs and the economy. social issues like abortion and gay marriage only 7% said they feel strongly. >> when we return i will say why i think philadelphia should be the convention city in 2016 for a lot of good reasons. i'll give you a good one.

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let me finish tonight with this. this weekend the "washington post" was kind enough to publish my case for the republicans in 2016. when i lived there, my mother took me to see the liberty bell. she wanted her children to know the history of our city which was vital to the beginnings of

our country. they're in quick walking distance of philadelphia's center. when delegates come they could visit much of the history without leaving market street. a greater reason is what a philadelphia convention could do on television. consider the heart of the current debates. we hold these truths to be self-evident. that all men are created with equal rights. the four knights of the democratic convention could highlight these powerful words and phrases of the declaration of independence. a gay couple could talk about marriage equality and their right to the pursuit of happiness. a female delegate could make the case for equal pay in the

workplace. democrats could lay claim to not just the flag but what is stands for. that is "hardball" for now. "all in" is right now. tonight on "all in." >> chris christie suggesting the government should let parents have a choice about vaccinating his kids. ? october he had a different opinion about the government's responsibility. >> casey hiccocks joins me exclusively tonight. plus the president goes honey badger with the budget and the super bowl ads go dark. good evening from new