there is propaganda value, and in video taping it and posting it online. but in the end it shows the utter corruption and the debasement of who they are as an organization. and yes, it will -- i think that at least regionally it will backfire on them. >> admiral, since the capture of lieutenant cass as bay, did you make any effort to try and release him and second question do you have any concerns that the killing of the pilot will have any negative implications on the popular support for the war -- >> popular support here in the united states? >> and in the region and in jordan and do you still have the commitment of the jordanian government to be part of the coalition against isil? >> well i won't speak for the jordanian government? >> did you receive any commitment? >> since this video, none that

i'm aware of. but i will let the jordanian government speak for itself and their people. that is not my place. i'm not aware of any information in terms of specificity of where he was being held. we had been working closely with jordanian officials since he was captured to do what we could to try to help locate him. i'm not aware that any -- that there was any success in that regard so there would be no ability to try to mount an overt rescue opportunity. >> and on the popular support in the region the public opinions? >> what will this do to popular support. you are seeing video out of amman, about the reaction of the jordanian people out of this. i think this goes to jamie's question. i do think this goes to potentially backfire on them in the region.

but it is important for everybody to take a couple of steps back and look at who these guys are and what they are about and the seriousness of the threat. we've been saying this for a long, long time. and we've also said it will take a while to get at the idealology which is the center of gravity. you are not going to do that through bombs and airstrikes. that doesn't mean the bombs and airstrikes won't keel happening. they are. nothing will change as a result of today and this video about the resolve that we the united states military have or the coalition have more broadly. >> since you mentioned, i have a follow-up, since you mentioned the videos we had other videos. we had videos from the region where al kassasbeh was born and they said this is the u.s. >> i didn't see those videos. so let me more broadly respond

to the thought this is the u.s. war and it is not. we are not the only ones trying to get rid of this group. that said we also believe in this country and in diversity of opinion and can allow that others have a different view about what this murder means or should mean going forward. all i can do again, is speak for the united states military. that is my job. and what i'm telling you is the united states military will stay committed to this. >> admiral, i know you don't like to get into body counts or nose counts so i won't ask about specific numbers unless you are interested in talking about them, but there are reports that isil is getting more foreign fighters as part of the recruiting than the u.s. is killing there. is that accurate and can you give us any sense in it terms of the ability to add to their pool

of combatants and the american's ability to take those off the field. >> you are right, i won't get into body counts or numbers because as i've said before i don't think that is a helpful metric. that's okay. but i can tell you, we do continue to atrite their forces. in other words, they are still suffering battlefield losses almost every day as airstrikes continue and as ground operations continue, particularly up in the north. and it is true that they continue to recruit, back to jamie's question. one of the things they believe they are getting out of the public and grizzly murders is more recruits. so we know they have theable -- the ability to generate young man that are attracted to this group and idealology. and that is a long problem.

and i can't continue to sit here and tell you and i made some phone calls before i came out here as you might think i would, i can't tell you that the numbers in the press report are accurate. i can't refute them either. we do know that they are capable of bringing more people to the fight. and we've been saying that from the get-go as well phil. and you know that. which is why we'll stay committed to this for the long-term and it is a long-term fight. so i don't know what the balance sheet is. and i suspect, quite honestly that that balance sheet changes every day. because this isn't -- they are not an army where you raise your right hand and take an oath and get an i.d. card and you go to bootcamp. these are common street fighters and they come and go and sometimes they stay for a while or stay for a day and leave. and know isil has a fluctuating man power pool.

what we have seen and a better judgment of the strength of this group is their behavior. so we've seen them change the way they operate on the ground. they are hiding more. we've seen them not travel around in conveys, not as much as they used to. so they are not as agile as they once were. we know they have lost literally hundreds and hundreds of vehicles that they can't replace. it is not like they have a supply chain out there and defense contractor building trucks for them. so they have to steal whatever they want to get and the number -- it is a finite number. and we also know the main source of revenue for them used to be oil and now it is no longer the main source of revenue. i can't give you the dollar amount because i know that is the next question. but we know oil is no longer the lead source of their income and dollars. so they are changing. and i know and we have talked

about the fact they are largely in a defensive posture. they are not taking new ground. let's talk about kirkuk. over the weekend, they mounted a defense and they were out of there after the second day and they are not in kobani any more and they are more worried about the lines of communication and routes. this is a different group than it was months ago. i'm not saying they are dangerous or barbaric. they are different and that is a sign of progress. >> other members of the coalition, especially turkey need to do more to stop the flow of foreign fighters to isil? >> we've talked about turkey and their contributions and we're grateful for their contributions particularly on the train and equip side. and there are more than 60 countries contributing in ways they and their people deem most appropriate. there are some countries only contributing financially and

others that are doing moej and others -- doing more and other contributing kenityicly and we have to be willing to let the countries contribute in ways they deem most appropriate. >> what is the lead source of funding? >> they get donations and have a significant black market program going on. but what i can tell you we know that oil is no longer the lead source of revenue. i don't have their tip sheet with me. >> how long has it not been the lead source of revenue, do you know? >> i don't know. >> and you talked about the coalition and how the u.s. has to be accommodating with that. has jordan continued to fly the f-16s over sear since december 23rd when the lieutenant was taken or have they suspended it or are they going to continue to? >> those are great questions for

jordan. i don't know what they are doing. i would direct you to the task force or set-com but that is up for jordan to speak to. >> you have been listening to admiral john kirby about the big news kmuming the -- consuming "the cycle" today about the capture and killing of another hostage. >> it is another example of how serious we need to take them and there is a long concerted effort here to degrade and destroy their capabilities. nothing will slow down about that. we'll continue to put as much pressure on them as possible with our partners in syria. >> good afternoon, as we come on

the air, a new propaganda video released this afternoon, the victim a jordanian fighter pilot killed a month ago today, burned alive. and now there is more urgency to free a female aide worker held and let's go to senior white house correspondent chris jansing. this murder a month ago but coming out with the terribly grizzly details today. how is the administration reacting to that the release today? >> reporter: with horror as you might expect. the president just learned about that video as he was going into a planned event as he was surrounded by people benefiting by obama care and i asked him about his reaction as he was being ushered out. let me play you a clip of what he had to say. >> it is one more indication of the viciousness and bar barrett of this organization.

and it i think, will redouble the vigilance and determination on the part of a global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and ultimately defeated and this organization appears only interested in death and destruction. >> reporter: and in the interview that savannah guthrie did with the president, he said he does watch all of them that are related to this and how repulsed he is by it. he believes and we just heard this from the admiral that it will bring coalition officials together. and there is the budget fight over what to do about the defense budget. the president is asking for more money above what sequestration levels are. i think we can show you the numbers. $561 billion is the request, that is $38 billion over sequestration levels and that is

on the part of back and forth with republicans. the president will want some domestic spending lifted on sequestration as well. but of that money, $1.3 billion is to fight isis including # $00 million00 -- $700 million for syrian and kurdish forces. and with the lieutenant general being asked how difficult it is when the foreign fighters are being recruited by isis and king abdullah was in washington as this video was being released and he was to have lunch with vice president joe biden and he had said recently that the problem for them is that isis will pay about a thousand a month for the fighters which is about the level of a good middle class job in jordan and those jobs are tough to come by. and so there are internal -- or external problems for folks in that region who are part of the

coalition which included saudi arabia, egypt and jordan and qatar and there will be conversations going on today among the coalition. ari. >> chris jansing with the reaction from the president and from the white house. and we go to michael white, with a new book isis and michael, michael. and michael, your book talks about isis and you heard chris jansing, hoping this might strengthen our allies but you talk about a jordan government that often try to placate militants. tell us about that. >> well zarqawi was a jordanian national he went to afghanistan twice, the first time to make contacts and was a journalist reporting about the haddine and

the second time he met bin laden and when he came back to jordan he was committed to attacks against the monarchy. the first one was a keystone cops and it ended in a farce and he was arrested and thrown in jail. in prison this guy really came into his own as an international jihadist. he was charismatic and recruited people and seen as a leader among men. he was let out in '94, with the amnesty of the king abdullah. >> and that was to satisfy the brotherhood, for today's news based on your reporter do you think jordan is more likely to back off of isis as they see someone burned alive. >> it is hard to say at the moment. the jordanian pilot comes from an influential tribe in jordan. his family was outspoken for the

need for the government to do a deal. part of the isis propaganda they are not called the islamic state for nothing, they want to be legitimate as a governmental entity and they paid close attention to politics and they say the u.s. just traded five taliban for one of their soldiers and if we can get some money or do a transaction where we won't return the soldier but promise to keep him alive, we've already won. so my thesis is i think this man was killed probably as much as a month ago and there was chatter as much as him being burned alove dated january 8th. so this entire think of negotiating with jordan was a pantomime. and that means as they were losing kobani and thinking it was a victory, they were sitting on this tape. >> i haven't seen the video, it

is described as being detailed and gruesome this jordanian burned alive, i can't think of anything worse than that. it is horrific. why the change in tactic? we've seen them behead people in the past and also what is isis wanting out of this and what message are they trying to send? >> i think with the previous beheadings that was about creating political discomfort in the united states and the u.k. and with japan. this seems much more about revenge. i don't think you can decide which one is more brutealbrutal. burning to death or being beheaded. but this was with muslim children being killed in airstrikes and what not, it is certainly offering the audience hey, this is fair. this is about an eye for an eye and what this pilot is getting is his due. so i think about revenge in this respect with a neighbor with the original target of al qaeda in iraq as we heard earlier from your guest.

so i think that is the nature of what we're seeing with this particular video. >> thomas michael kay here. it is easy to develop a notion this is a monolithic group and impen impennet impennet table, but we heard they were split on what to do with him and we mentioned they had withdrawn from kobani and that was a success for rpg, what are the chinks in the isis armor and how do we as the west exploit those? >> well speculation as to what those chinks are. you can exploit anything that is discoverable and that we can reach with either political deal making light of what happened in kobani as a defeat. so i think it is difficult without knowing what the status of the leadership is there. people suggested that maybe there were two groups holding different hostages and a lack of

coordination there. i find that very difficult to believe. i think that if bagdadi realized there was a faction with an isis holding an individual and conducting a separate negotiation, we would have crushed that element within isis very quickly. >> michael, part of what has made isis so powerful and strong is the vast amount of money they've been making. earlier we heard admiral kirby talking about oil revenue no longer the lead source of dollars and in your book isis inside the army of terror you say we've crushed 16 of 20 of their oil refineries and they've lost 90% of the oil-driven revenue and nine of 11 weapon warehouses in iraq destroyed, 30 isis leaders killed by american airstrikes and yet is isis losing? no. and we had secretary gates talk about that on "meet the press." here a little bit of him talking about that. >> is it fair to say we are not

winning this battle against isis right now? >> i think that is correct. i think we've made some steps -- some successful steps to contain it but we're a long way, in my view, from being in a position to roll them back or push them out of iraq. so i think the president has set an ambitious and under current circumstances unrealistic goal when he talks about our in tent being to destroy isis with the means that he has approved so far, i think that is an unattainable objective. >> so when you talk about the many successes we have had, what do you mean we're not winning? >> people think isis just sort of came on the scene two years ago. no. we have been at war with them for 11 years. this was al qaeda in iraq. secretary gates was overseeing the bush sfrags war -- administration war policy with david patraeus. in 2006 al qaeda in iraq became

financially lyly sufficient and there was a time when zarqawi said give us money because you need to subsidize. they are using networks in place in iraq for decades that were set up by saddam. car smugglings and black and gray market economy that cross over into syria and they are self-sufficient. so when we bomb the oil refineries, we are not trying to powder thesetive ises because we need to continue to allow the power in the country, but isis is finding ways to circum navigate this. they charge taxes and kidnapping kidnappings to get citizens back including journalists. >> if the lights went out in

syria, wouldn't that make folks say we have to get rid of isis they're not helping us any more. >> most of the countries in the middle east, i would consider this tenuous, you cannot address the core issue of isis unless you address the sunni grievances that have allowed this come to rise. for that you have to address the assad regime. secretary gates have said this before and chuck hagel who has now been fired basically, he said it to the obama administration that is not the strategy. >> and that is the larger policy debate even as people look horrified at this burping -- burning murder. thank you. we have all of the angles covering and including the implications for our coalition. will partners ban closer together as we've been discussing or flee this fight against isis? and later in the hour the politics, how the president's spending plan fits into all of this. we're following the latest for

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we're back with more on the isis murder of the jordan fighter pilot. the king of jordan is cutting his d.c. visit short. let's bring in lieutenant colonel cory schaefer and doug olive ant from the new american foundation who just returned home from iraq he was director for iraq in the bush and the obama national security counsel. doug, first to you, it appears to jordan and also with the japanese executed hostage, isis owe out to make more enemies. why would they want to make more enemyies at this point? >> i'm not sure it is about making enemies. as i've said before there is an internal logic that isn't aimed at us for the jordans or the japanese they have their own

internal motivations for generating this propaganda of the deed putting these barbaric executions on the web and aimed at their own executions and holding up their base and that is more peripheral. >> the president said if there is more americans held by isis we'll do anything we can. what does this mean and what is the communication between the united states and isis? are they through back channels? >> there are always channels. i think we have to do more to try to find the hostages and get them back out. we have yet to do the hard work of putting in human intelligence. one of the things i and other recommendations that have been suggested, the intelligence to do precision strikes. this is one of the things the

president has recognized and made comments about. the back channels look there is no negotiating with these folks. this was meant to be a severe message to their base but to those they want to recruit. this is a great recruiting group. i love john kirby and i watched him with great interest today and we fail to recognize this is a war of ideas as much as a war on the ground. we have to counter the message. so as much as we talk about doing more to get the hostages out, we have to fight the folks in the media. this video, i've seen it well-produced and hollywood quality and meant to send a message to anyone captured to their base they want to recruit. we have to counter their message more effectively in the media. >> doug you have some pretty battle hardened groups on the ground you have hezbollah that have sided with the assad government and the ypg

instrumental in getting isis out of kobani and the fsa, although they have crumbled and u.s. coalition airstrikes what is making battle hardened against isis. what is making them so strong? >> there are two answers. i think a lot of us said and i said in a week off the record they are killing hezbollah, what is not to like about this. but that was the wrong organization. both of these organizations got stronger by fighting each other. hezbollah is stronger and the islamic state is now stronger dosh is now stronger. and one, we don't have all of the pieces in place and we don't have a full-fledged strategy and they continue to have this safety in syria where there is

no viable u.s. alley other than small ypg groups in the north and small syrian army groups in the south to fight against these guys. >> doug, appreciate your point and your candor and the exercise, but the point is when there are so many enemies for the u.s. and our allies for israel there are too many folks to prioritize and it seems isis is banking on that because as we've been covering their message to jordan to back off, this doesn't have to be your problem, let me scare you away from the battlefield and we'll go on with our agenda. and speak to that. and tony it is tough to see and cover and we apply standards in how you do it. you won't see the entire propaganda playing on a loop here. but walk us through an intersection what is essentially murder propaganda and we are a free country where the media will cover this stuff even

though we worry what the lines are that makes sure it won't promote the isis message of murder? >> it is tough to do. let me be clear. we often project our own start ards -- standards on to the situation. and we don't think like they do. i agree with the other guest. they have internal mechanisms and thinking we don't grasp and it is hard for us to challenge. secondly when we talk about the groups and the hardening, part of what we have to work on militarily, but the bath party, the saddam hussein party took advantage of the sunni discontent. so we have to address that as part of the psychological war we have to deal with. and then we have to look at this as a military proposition and retake the land. and i think -- i've talked to members of congress about this. we need to do an air abe-nato or a sunni-nate yo made up of

sunni and jordan to retake the space of isis and until we do that, isis will continue to do this and without any sort of countering to have their message and recruit and have their operations. we are doing some things regarding counter and financing but we have to get with this and figure out ways to go brutally into them. world war ii we recognized nazi germany and japan was a threat and we went together and went in and we have to think about that as we defeat isis. >> thank you very much. next up how the president is amping up the fight against isis with money.

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welcome back. right now president obama is in a cabinet meeting and you can bet isis will come up. fighting the terrorists is a big part of the president's $4 trillion budget proposal he sent to congress. the blue print includes a big bump for the pentagon. more than a billion would go to

train syrian forces against isis. the proposal sets aside $3.5 billion for the state department to counter isis. let's bring in nbc news foreign correspondent a man moy head dean and patrice robert. and one thing democrats and republicans can agree on is increased spending at the pentagon and the president has put forth $561 billion, $38 billion over sequestration levels and $1.3 billion is to train and equip fighters against isis. talk to us about the importance of that spending at a time like this. >> i think the united states strategy is focused on the short-term approach to contain isis and then the long-term approach of trying to eradicate them from the region. there is no doubt tackling aid and training the forces there is to try to contain isis and

defeat it on a battlefield. but in terms of long-term, trying to eradicate the ideology it has to be more of the soft foreign policy state development, trying to enhance education in the worlds promoting good governance and this will make the long-term fight better. >> patricia i want to look at how isis came about in the first place and the way it is allowed to grow because of the assad fact. there is a paradox about isis the more prominence isis gets the more prominent assad gets. how do we move forward. is the moving forward with or without assad? >> that is raging in the capitol behind me. republicans are saying they want

a much more clear strategy from obama about what his plans would be and how they involve assad. he said he doesn't want to be involved with the assad government. the republicans want something much more muscular and specific and for the first time the president is dealing with a republican congress so when he wents to go to congress and increase spending he will have a willing group of republicans who want to increase the spending as well but they won't give him a blank check. they want to know what are the specifics and frankly they want him to do more. and i think when we see ash carter up on the hill tomorrow, the new secretary of defense, he will get a grilling. he is very well respected on the grill but he'll have to answer president obama's policies. anybody who wants to see the kind of controversy is creating has to look no further than that hearing tomorrow to see how rough he will be treated because of the lack of what republicans see as a strategy to degrade and

defeat isis. they don't see the specifics there. >> and patricia moving on from that. are there any credence to the reports that the administration is now willing to accept a solution that is willing to involve assad? >> i can't tell you that. i can tell you only exactly -- how republicans and democrats are receiving this information about isis today. i think every time there is a video that comes out, especially a video this specific and gruesome and involving an ally of the united states it does strengthen the resolve of the united states to get behind the president. they say they want leadership from the president an they are not seeing it. that is what i'm hearing on capitol hill. they want the president to do something but do more. a lot of dissatisfaction with the president's policies right now. >> and ayman, it is a tricky dance for the white house, because isis puts out these frightening, tragic public displays of terror and they say we can't sit still for this but the vast majority of americans

are not under threat of isis and not a threat we are dealing with currently from al qaeda for so long. >> not directly here at the homeland. the biggest threat of the united states has to do more to the strategic interests in the middle east and when you see countries like jordan who are close allies in the region losing soldiers that affects the united states and it makes it difficult for the united states going forward to have close alleys. when the countries start to question their involvement and they start coming under domestic pressure it tests the relationship even more. >> ayman mohyeldin, patricia murray thank you for joining us. and people learn more about the execution of one of their own and next we'll go overseas to see the reaction.

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reaction where you are? >> well i mean i don't need to tell you, there is a sense of anger and rage and despair not just in jordan but through the region. this is not just about the killing of moaz al kassasbeh, but the method by the way isis or the islamic state did it. i think we need to understand is why did isis or the islamic state decide to kill mow aszs al cass cass bay. they could have exchanged prisoners, and why did they have

to kill mow azs al cass cass bay. this particular war is all-out war. so in this particular sense, killing the pilot sends a powerful message, in particular to the base of isis or the islamic state and its followers to wii assure the rank and file that isis is still basically standing tall and to strike fear in the hearts of its enemies and that is what you have in jordan and elsewhere at this particular moment. >> you talk about that fear and talk about the message. david, we're often told war is politics by other means, in the case of isis and this kind of terror propaganda, it seems that the event, the murder itself, which we've been reporting was held for a month for some sort of strategic goal the event is secondary to the propaganda itself. you've worked in diplomacy how

does the u.s. counter something like that. >> what is important is the battlefield and isis has suffered battlefield losses. and the reason they've decided to release this now is to recover their credibility and sew they are still players and not intimidated by the battlefield defeated. >> in the new yorker they say isis is less like a conventional auj tearan than a death cult. >> it is not about agreeing or disagreeing with that time and again we are surprised by the actions of isis and isis is not al qaeda central. isis is a different beast. it is a different creature. it controls a state as big as the united kingdom. it controls the lives of 5

million and 10 million people. think about it ari, it is waging multiple wars against the kurds, the americans, the jordanians and it is based between communities and this is an insurgencies and it is a powerful insurgency that has a potent social base and without addressing the root causes of this particular insurgency the sectarian dividing iraq and syria and the raging war in syria and iraq and the last of any kind of trust in the iraqi government while the international coalition led by the u.s. can degrade isis but the reality is it cannot dislodge isis from the cities and towns it occupies today. this is a long war, a costly war, a complex war and also it is an uncertain war because isis has territory and a mini army

and of course it has a skilled army in this particular sense. >> it is a mistake to call isis a state. it is neither a state nor is it islamic. they don't provide services able to occupy territory to plunder but they haven't been able to setup effective administration. >> that is what they want. they want us to call them a state. >> do they not have a basic sort of government that runs the areas and jails people and judges people and takes care of people don't they extract taxation. >> i think taxation is too generous of a word. they extort money. they run protection action. they are not islamic in the true sense of the word. they try to persuade peoples under their control that they are the governing authority, the caliphate, but they are just a

terrorist group with fear and torturing hostages. >> go ahead. >> i think it is time we take the so-called islamic states seriously. it is time we take this seriously and have some humility about this particular long war. we any we are shocked. think how many times we say we are shocked. the second largest city fallujah iraqa and imagine this could basically exact genocide in iraq and syria. and so while it is not an islamic state in the conventional sense, this is a deeply imbedded insurgency and it has insurgents that could be with us for a long time perhaps

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take the comcast business speed test. get faster speeds or more savings, or we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. breaking news coverage continues here on "the cycle." the execution of that jordanian pilot captured during coalition air strikes. the question here at home today is what does it mean for us. greg thanks for joining us. >> sure. >> one thing that we have noticed isis has done incredibly well is leverage western media.

they started that back with foley in august. we know that they've got on american woman. we don't know her name, and we know they have john cannily. are they running out of cache? >> i don't know. when you hear u.s. counterterrorism officials talk about the islamic state, they talk about how savvy it has been with social media. decisions like this to release videos like this is a calculated one for this group. it almost makes people think the world should recoil at this image. they have clearly calculated among their supporters this is a strategic message they want to employ. >> we have covered a lot of the global reaction here. if we look at this from the u.s. political perspective, they

killed this individual early january. we had a state of the union late january. they released this in february. in that time the president went before the congress of the united states and said give me war powers for taking on isis. do they consider that kind of thing at all, because as we have been covering on "the cycle," the nature of that operation is still very much in debate in congress and whether it is a robust open-ended war power or something more narrowed? >> it's an authorization that basically authorizes what's underway already. there is already a military mission that extends well beyond the 2001 authorization. >> let me ask you. if that's the isis view that ties into what senator mcconnell was just saying this weekend, that any other type of authorization could telegraph

that we won't have ground troops. some republicans are saying that option needs to stay open. >> greg we have been talking earlier from the political angle from all of this with republicans frustrated that the president doesn't have a full strategy yet in dealing with isis, and as we have been saying it's such a complicated question, is this something the president can put forward and propose? we have guests on this show all the time. i have yet to hear from someone who knows exactly the right strategy is. >> if there is a right strategy we would have heard a lot about it right now. this white house does not want to launch another u.s. war in the middle east. these videos put additional pressure on this administration to justify that sort of policy and that approach.

it just makes it harder and harder. although, you're right. there is no obvious solution out there. >> greg isis has been very powerful within its area in iraq and syria, but it has not been very powerful outside of that area, not with direct strikes the way we became used to al al qaeda. why do you think that is? >> the attacks in paris were traced to an affiliate in yemen. the worry is that it moves beyond that that at least portions of the organization start to look beyond the iraq-syria region because there

are growing followers and growing numbers of fighters that are coming into syria from europe and the united states and elsewhere. >> i want to ask michael kay a question. what strategy would you like to see employed? what should we be doing differently to combat this threat? >> that's a massive question. you have to split it into a short-term and long-term view. we have seen effectiveness on air strikes, but that needs to be joined up with a presence on the ground. they are really only effective when you have something on the ground, like the kurds. they can direct strikes into the very dynamic situation that's going on the ground. that's very short term. let's say the kurds drive isis

out permanently. what's the loyalty of the ypg to the politician solution? the long-term effectiveness of syria will be based on that political fusion. that's the difficult bit. you can't just tackle it from a short-term approach. there has to be a long-term approach to join with it and that's what we're missing at the point. >> thank you so much for joining us. that does it for this breaking news day on "the cycle." coverage will continue on "now." a measles debate exposes what appears to be an immunization from scientific facts. >> all children ought to be vaccinated. >> it's an outbreak. and the debate over vaccines has effected the race over the 2016

white house. >> politicians are afraid to offend everybody, so they are afraid to say anything. >> i have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who have wound up with profound mental disorders. >> counties in california have lower immunization rates than the sudan and chad. this is something that is of concern. >> i've been fearful that we were going to get just this kind of an outbreak. >> the science could not be more clear. this is a public health issue. one day after governor chris christie said parents should have a choice in vaccinateing their children and rand paul said vaccines can lead to profound mental disorders,