r fame. if you're good you can get famous. but if you seek to be great is what you use your fame for. nelson mandela did not only rise about his enemies but above the entity. "hardball" starts right now. war power. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. president oem played the bugle. he asked for a declaration of war against the terrorists of isis, the authorization for use of military force against the islamic state of iraq. will the congress give it to him? will dchl oves have faith in the

language that rules out, quote, enduring offensive combat operations? will hawks say this overly ties the president's hands? the president says he hopes to have strong bipartisan support but can the combination of the doves and hawks alike deny him that support and how is that going to look to america's enemies? the draft language says "the president is authorized to use the armed force rs of the united states as the president determines to be necessary and inappropriate against isil or its associated persons or forces. however, it also sets limits, according to the draft. the authority granted does not authorize the use of the united states armed forces in enduring offensive ground combat operations. well this afternoon, the president elaborated on what this authorization was not, another iraq or afghanistan war. let's listen. >> the resolution we've submitted today does not call for the deployment of u.s.

ground combat forces to iraq or syria. it is not the authorization of another ground war like afghanistan or iraq. as i've said before i'm convinced that the united states should not get dragged back into another prolonged ground war in the middle east. that's not in our national security interests and it's not necessary for us to defeat isil. local forces on the ground who now their countries best our best position to take the ground fight to isil and that's what they are doing. at the same time this resolution strikes the necessary balance by giving us the flexibility we need for unforeseen circumstances. >> joining us right now, senator joe manchin of west virginia. senator manchin, do you think the united states should be using military force to defeat isil? >> we're going to have to use military force. it's a matter of do we use our own combat troops on the front lines to get bogged down like we did in iraq and afghanistan. not intended to and i appreciate

the president for saying he doesn't intend for that to happen but in west virginia we have a little commonsense and we know what the definition of insanity means and it looks like over in that part of the world you get bogged down and if money or military mite would have changed that we would have done that by now, chris. and you read the thing about the enduring offensive ground combat operations. >> right. >> what does that really mean? >> well, what could it mean to you in a way that would concern you and make you vote against this resolution? >> well the bottom line is i'm not going to vote for anything that has the interpretation and we can have combat ground forces on the front line fighting someone else's war. now, we're going to go after isil, it make no, sir difference, we're going to protect america. but if we could just fast track jordan getting them the necessary equipment that they need to fight this war, if we can get the turks to engage saudis engage the kurds are fighting and doing a heck of a job. we need to make sure we're getting them the equipment to do the job. the other thing is chris, the

2001 aumf it's still in force. i don't know the purpose of why we need this one if you're not going to repeal 2001. >> well i'm just looking at the language that you just mentioned, senator. i know you're going to have to deal with this in a more fine way but one word that both they ares you is enduring you want to say no offensive ground combat operations. wouldn't that get to where you are at? >> yes. i think from the stand point we have to look at this and if we can get it to a point that we have comfort with that but enduring could mean we don't intend for them but we're going to go ahead and if it takes 5,000, 10,000 surge, you're putting an awful lot of american lives on the front line again and we've seen the outcome of that. i don't wish to repeat that again. until they are determined to fight their own ground war, i think king abdullah was very precise about what he was going to do and he did it. >> you know what i know senator, probably more from

briefings but the president says today that he needs that authorization for anything short of enduring ground combat operations because there may be an opportunity to jump in there with special forces, s.e.a.l.s or whatever and capture the bad guys at once. he wants the option play to be able to go in there not sweeping across the isis territory but in that opportunity, he wants to have a chance to use ground forces in an opportunity situation to grab the leadership. are you against that? >> what i'm saying no. i want to make sure we stop isil any way we can to support the people over there fighting the front lines, the iraqis are engaging. we have to use our special ops to ensure that we're being effective. the only thing i'm saying the 2001 aumf is still in play. that's the one that bush has used, that's the one that president oembama as used and a broad scope. i don't know who they are trying

to apeasse with it. so i'm going to wait and see the language that they come up with. if we are able to have strategic strikes, get in and out, this would be different. >> i can see your argument and certainly your background on this in representing west virginia. but the president i would say is to your left in terms of war. he's a bit more doveish. do you really think he's going to turn out to be more hawkish than joe manchin? >> i would hope that would not be. i mean i say in west virginia we're one of the most patriotic states in the nation. we're willing to go anywhere to defend this country but again, i've said ground troops in that part of the world has not solved that problem. we've lost 6,000 -- more than 6,000 americans already. 55,000 have been maimed and we've spent $3 trillion chris.

they have got to engage over there. make no mistake, if it likes like isil is a threat and coming this direction, we'll deal with that. but basically they are coming back to our country and coming to the western world. >> here's the "hardball" question. what's the word agony, what they have done to our people over there, especially the young woman, kayla mueller. and what they did to that poor courageous pilot for jordan. we look at that and we want to stamp it out. we don't want that to be on our planet with us. we want to get the people and erase them who do that. at the same time you draw restrictions and say let the jordanian air force do it let the kurds do it and maybe these sleeper cells at our side in the syrian free army whatever they are, but in the end, do you see any coming together of ending this war, ending this isis organization in the near future? do you see it in any future? >> chris, first of all, my heart goes out to the families in

these horrific tragedies, horrible horrible atrocities. my heart goes to them along with all of the americans. they've got to stand up and fight for themselves. they've got to clean up their mess. we've got to keep them from coming in through any way, shape or form into this country. sleeper cells, whatever it may be, people coming back quite a few americans engaged now, we've got to stop that. europe has got a horrible problem with it. so putting more troops on there, kind of rile them all up and get more people that doesn't seem to win that war over there. >> i know it's a complicated one. thank you very much senator joe manchin of west virginia. >> thank you, chris. i'm joined by congress mike perry. congressman perry, would you support the authorization for

military force against isis as it's been written today by the president? >> i don't know that i would authorize it as written. i don't think they were ever meant to go into perp tu tea together as they have. i do support an orz zags of force but we have legitimate questions and the president kind of implied that was going to be case and we're going to have a responsible conversation about the use of force and actually make it better. so with that that's kind of my position at this point. >> well, he's seemed to bill a wall on the dovish side by saying it's not going to be an enduring combat operation. >> right. >> do you have some concern on the other side the republican or conservative side that there's not enough stretch to this thing, not enough width, bandwidth to get something done? >> yeah i think there is some question about the term "enduring," what does that mean and to some it means a limitation to others, it mean it is could be wide open and leaves

it open to conjecture and from my standpoint what is about khorasan and boko haram and a kwchl ap. today it's isis and tomorrow it's somebody else. is it too limiting? this is an ideology. it tran sends borders. >> there is the 2001 document which we're not going to get rid of which is pretty inclusive according to your concerns. >> that's exactly right. the president already said he got the article 2 power. so maybe this is an unnecessary at all. >> that's a good point. i bet he'd argue that point if he has to. >> well, i agree. i think he would argue it and i think he's already said it. i think he's coming to the congress for validation and, listen i think is an appropriate discussion to have but i don't think what he sent is ready for primetime and congress thooshas to do its part. >> the speaker said he doesn't believe there's such a strategy.

this is a good argument and respond to what the speaker says. let's watch. >> okay. >> i believe that if we're going to authorize use of military force, the president should have all the tools necessary to win the fight that we're in. and so as you've heard me say over the last number of months i'm not sure that's a strategy that's been outlined will accomplish the mission that the president says he wants to plesh.plesh accomplish. at this point, the president wants to dismantle and destroy isis. i haven't seen a strategy yet that i think will accomplish it. >> congressman, same question how do you connect our hatred of what these people were doing to their prisoners over there, burning somebody alive, a good soldier, killing an american woman, however they did it they killed her and yet we're limiting ourselves to helping their jordanian air force, helping the kurds, as always maybe having the free syrian army somehow get equipped to fight and train but it doesn't sound like our emotions are

backed up by our actions. it doesn't seem to be enough there. my thinking. what are yours? >> my thoughts exactly. with all due respect to the speaker, i think what we see from the president is some aspirational goals, right, an objective. we want to defeat isis. we want to destroy isis but that's not a strategy. that's where you want to end up but he hasn't laid out the points how we get there. he hasn't talked about the financial implications, diplomatic implications how we get their soldiers get their lives engaged and involved because they have the most to lose. that's what a strategy includes and, quite honestly we haven't seen that on the greater issue of terrorism on isis or syria, which is right next door. what happens when we're with isis and we're next door with syria and assad. >> and you're a military man, right? >> i served in iraq, yes. >> i know that. that's why i wanted you to say so. thank you, sir. >> scott perry of pennsylvania. coming up the horror of what happened to american

hostage kayla mueller raises a critical debate and it's a hot one. should we pay ransom to prisoners? should people be allowed to pay it? president obama says there's nothing worse than telling a parent we will do everything we can to take your child home short of paying ransom. plus top strategist says there were 12 days during the 2012 campaign where he was actually worried, catch this about sarah palin and her amazing electoral ability at the time. an inside look at both obama campaigns, '08 and '12 and then we'll look at the early stumbles by the big names in the race. that's happening already. it will have a huge impact on late-night comedy. jon stewart is stepping down from "the daily show." finally, let me finish with the president's call to back military action against isis. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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so when in doubt dial it out! for more information contact your service provider, visit the website at www.cpuc.ca.gov/415areacode welcome back to "hardball." president obama in an interview with buzzfeed talked about the anguish of talking to the parents and family members of hostages and telling them that the united states will do everything possible to secure their release except pay ransom. >> my immediate reaction is heartbreak. you know, i have been in touch with kayla's family. she was an outstanding young woman and a great spirit and i think that spirit will live on. the one thing that we have held to is a policy of not paying ransoms with an organization like isil.

and the reason is that once we start doing that not only are we financing their slaughter of innocent people and strengthening their organization, but we're actually making americans even greater targets for future kidnappings. so you know it's as tough as anything that i do having a conversation with parents who understandably want by any means necessary, for their children to be safe. >> the president went on to point out that paying ransom actually makes americans less safe. >> the one thing that we have held to is a policy of not paying ransoms with an organization like isil and the reason is is that once we start doing that not only are we financing their slaughter of

innocent people and strengthening their organization but we're actually making americans even greater targets for future kidnappings. >> but is paying ransom to terrorists always wrong? joining me right now is atlantic steve clem mondays and u.s. congresswoman donna. steve, you first. you take a position that isn't common. tell me about the aprepare pree ateness of having a family member taken hostage by an isis-type organization what should they be called upon to pay ransom? >> i think if families have the resources, if they have the ability to move in ways that save their loved ones i don't think government should be impeding that process. this is too dire of a process that is there. i think government should stay out of it but the fact is lots of governments do pay ransom. you have a conflict between european governments and america not paying them. i think they all not to pay them

but remove the restrictions on families to do whatever they can to save their loved ones. i just don't see it is right that the united states government says it may prosecute families if they proceed in getting ransom money paid for their loved ones. >> congressman, where are you on private families with the wealth to do it? should they be giving it to the isis forces to use as they will? they are not going to use it for food and children but for guns and torture. but do they think they should be doing that, morally, politically or whatever? >> i think it's a heart heart-wrenching choice but i agree with the government. i think it ups the ante for terrorists to continue their kidnapping and hostage taking and to continue to finance their destruction. and so as sad as it is i think

the government policy is the correct one and my heart just breaks for families like kayla's, a wonderful young woman just trying to do good in the world but i do think it's the right policy for the united states. >> let me go back to that question what about the use of the money. it's a two-way street. you give a couple million bucks 20 million bucks, you may have a corporation that's wanting to dip into their treasury for that. that money goes towards the assets of a horrible inhuman crowd. how do you justify that? >> i mean actually it's not a justifiable thing. absolutely. if you give money to terror organizations, it enhances the market for taking them. i think governments ought to do everything they can to stop that market from growing except for the fact if a family member or someone was taken, i think that we ought to impede it. we're inconsistent. >> how? i think you have a problem here.

>> david rhode of the "new york times." >> what happens if you give somebody a lot of money? are they likely to take another capture, a hostage and ask for more money? that would be human nature. >> of course they are. but chris, i agree with what you said last night. i think there's other elements of power to go down and track, kill, try, bring to justice those people that kidnap people and that ought not to be a pressure borne by the family of james foley, kayla mueller and others. >> last word to the congresswoman, what would you say to a friend of yours who is a family of great means and they have a son or daughter that was grabbed. what do you say to them when they come to you for counsel? what would you do? >> you know if my son were grabbed, i would want to do everything possible to free him, including reach out to anybody i know who is wealthy to do that. that is the inequality in all of

this, the inequity in it. but i do think that our policy is the right one and i think that we have an obligation to try to pursue these terrorists and to you know stop the terror. but i would hate for us to change our poll teaicy. i do think that it has kept us and our citizens actually safer knowing that there is at this point no negotiation and i really do worry about our citizens around the world who might be subject to hostage taking if they knew that there was a great ransom at stake. >> well said. thank you so much. steve clemons, u.s. congresswoman, donna edwards, also my friend. up next what got david axelrod worried? you'll be astounded by the news. axelrod is coming here in a minute. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ations does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene

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welcome back to "hardball." david axelrod has served as a senior adviser to the president in the white house and remain as close friend as a chicago-base political consultant he's led candidates to victory out there and also around the country. he's director of the university of chicago's institute of politics and author of a great new book, "believer, my 40 years in politics." i don't read every book but i am going to read this one. sarah palin is an issue of our dispute in our production staff every day. some think she is something. you were worried from the time of her great acceptance speech where she just dazzled the country, up until the lehman brothers' crash. in those 12 days in this book, it's amazing that you were worried about her potential.

>> there's no doubt that she was that little bit of energy drink for the campaign and it shook things up because she provided this sense of change and newness and assault on the washington establishment which was really undermining our mess average. so, you know by the time -- the day before the lehman brothers' crash, we were getting together because our poll had us one point ahead in that race and it was largely because of the energy that palin had inserted into the campaign. >> i love the way you write. you're a good writer by the way. "the east coast establishment might disdain her as unlettered and ill-prepared but that would only make her more appealing to millions of americans who felt that they had been getting the raw end of the deal." you understand that. the way that carville understands it that there's a lot of working class who vote republican every once in a while because they don't like the

elite. >> that's the mistake that people made. they focused on the fact that she was a woman. the fact that she had this cultural affinity for these disaffected working class americans is what made her potent. >> she was wasn't yale she wasn't elite. she went to five colleges like a lot of people and finally got a degree. >> yes. and she spoke to them. when she spoke at the convention and she found the chord. that speech was well received. >> and she's very attractive as any candidate. >> one thing i want to say about this, though obama had a really interesting reaction when we heard that she had been picked. he said i understand why she's doing it but this is really tough, this national thing. it took me six months to be a good candidate. she may be the greatest politician since reagan that she can come out of alaska and handle this but give this three weeks, four weeks, let's see how

this settles and the truth is, she ran into problems. >> katie couric. they asked what she read. she didn't want to answer it. anyway let's talk about the 2012 election which turned out to be a lot closer. you talk about that first debate with mitt romney the one where i went crazy. i think you were watching me. >> i didn't need a tv to hear you. >> here's the beginning of the first debate that jumped out of my head. here it is. >> there are a lot of points i want to make tonight but the most important one is that 20 years ago i became the luckiest man on earth because michelle obama agreed to marry me and so i just want to wish sweetie, you, happy anniversary and let you know a year from now we will not be celebrating it in front of 40 million people. >> and congratulations to you, mr. president, on your anniversary. i'm sure this was the most romantic place you could imagine, here with me. >> see what you wrote about that was great. the president was phony and the

challenger seemed authentic. >> he was laying on the pitch. romney -- they sniffed out that we might do something on the anniversary and he knew exactly what he was going to do and he looked completely natural doing it. obama looked force in doing it. it was painful and it was just the beginning of the pain. >> explain to me because i like everyone else went crazy out here watching it and why -- and then i looked at romney. he had all of the traits i despise. aloofness, elitism, i'm the white guy against the black guy, the prep school mormon against the guy who is not. there was a sense of superiority that really bugged me and yet it worked for him. you called it charm. >> no, i actually thought he was very well prepared for that debate and he handled himself well in that first debate. you see, he understood what oem

obama resisted. debates are performances. you practice your lines and you know what you're going to do when you hear a question and if your team has practiced with you and prepared well they know what you are going to say. romney knew exactly what he was going to say on every question in that first debate. he practiced, he delivered and he did really well and our guy just didn't. he wasn't -- he didn't want to prepare. >> i know. he didn't want to have knee-jerk reactions that you prepared him with. but you get deep near this. you're getting into the head being rung. what did the romney do to the president that got him wrong footed? you had all of these prep sessions trying to retrain the question on how to debate. it wasn't working so he finally said something out of tin cup out of movie, i finally got my head around this right. >> he had done poorly in the first debate and we were really worried about that first debate because presidents tend to do poorly in the first -- >> they all loose.

>> they all do. >> all incumbents lose first debates. >> we tried to avoid that. we didn't avoid it. so the second debate became important. what happened was, he had a bad debate prep 36 hours before the second debate and we were freaking out and we do an intervention and says -- and he talks about the movie "tin cup," kevin costner and he says okay here's what you do. he's trying to -- put your hat on backwards, do this do that and then he said he swung and hit and he said that's it. it's in my head. i've got to -- and so we worked it through and we did give him a golf tee to put into his pocket. >> this is what you've got to write more about, a role like you getting a guy to be president who you know is smart but he needs to get help

sometimes. you write in the book that president obama reflected on mitt romney saying he represents the america of the 1950s and believes the country does well when guys like him are in charge. guys like him? >> i think he meant the corporate elite, the prep school elite. he meant the -- >> the guy who thinks he is? >> exactly. and, you know he was very focused on the fact that the country had changed dramatically, it was a more diverse country and he represented that diversity and he represented a different kind of america where people could work their way up and you didn't have to come from the ruling elite to be president of the united states. >> what makes you -- i only have a minute but i'm impressed because it's not in the book -- what made you devote a lot of your political pro to helping candidates? >> part of it is i was raised by this woman who took care of me when my mother was at work. she was the one who took me to see john f. kennedy when i was 5

years old. i think she instilled in me a sense of -- a kind of yearning for justice. i always think about her because i wonder what she would think about the kid she took to see kennedy. and i think that's part of it and i was raised in a family where civil rights was a value but i always -- i believe in america where there are no barriers, where you can go as far as your talents take you and i want to fight for that kind of country. >> well, do you think the president has gotten a raw deal because of his ethnicity? >> i always resisted this question when i was working for him because i never wanted to give people a chance to say they are using race as an excuse but there's no question that he was treated differently because of that, no one else has been shouted down in the congress during a speech, you lie. >> huckabee did it this week. huckabee is saying he's pro islamic. >> and challenging his citizenship. these are reflections of race and i don't think there's a way to deny it. >> please explain donald trump

to he many one day. anyway this book political junkies, read this book. it's not a book that somebody writes for somebody. it happens out there. this is david axelrod with lots of inside stuff like this. the book is called "believer, my 40 years in politics". plus jon stewart's announcement that he's stepping down from "the daily show." that stunned everybody. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ially, emotionally - its hard on your own. so cigna's got your back and your knees, 24/7. cigna's there to answer your questions. or when you need some coaching. in sickness and in health, cigna's there, helping you to get well and stay well. that's having a partner,

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i don't know what

here's what's happening. a candlelight vigil is taking place right now in chapel hill, north carolina in honor of the three muslim students murdered

by a neighbor. a dispute over parking spaces may have led to this but some wonder whether religion would have played a role. spacex launched a new deep space weather satellite from cape canaveral and will track storms from more than a million miles away. welcome back to "hardball." the candidates are not out of the gate for 2016. but chris christie appears to be toning down his bombastic style. he was in iowa on monday. as "the washington post" reported, gone were the plus sister and bravado that have made chris christie long-touted contender for the white house the new chris christie was

serious, earnest and calmly gesturing as he spoke. and meanwhile, jeb bush madecuts his chief technology officer and many florida residents were dumped out along with the content of the e-mail themselves. the address was there. everybody knows. there was discord on the other side of the aisle when announcements about hillary clinton have boiled over into a territorial spat. it's the kind of drama that any campaign would want to keep out of the public eye. growing pains or do they foreshadow larger problems to come. we're joined by the round table, sabrina and jeremy peters of the "new york times" and our special guest is david axelrod, author of the new book

"believer, my 40 years in politics." sabrina, let's start with jeb bush. is he really so competent that he puts out all e-mails that people wrote to him as he was governor? >> first and foremost none of these candidates are playing to their sense. >> his being confidence? >> his being confidence and knowing how to manage and wants to look like the most tech-savvy republican candidate and he's for getting the 101 of how to do that. and not only the e-mails for personal information and dumping the constituents' information online but you cannot hire anyone anymore for your campaign without checking the social media. >> there are sucky numbers in new hampshire. the dog doesn't read the label on the peanut butter jar, the dog food jar. i can't believe the low regard so far for him in this campaign. let me ask you about the other

guy, about hillary clinton. hillary clinton has -- it was always the dogfighting in that campaign before. now you've got already david brock, a watchdog for her and then the messina operation. it's like a drug war is going on. that's my turf no that's your turf and it's all out in public on "the new york times." >> that's right. i think part of the problem is they -- these operatives and strategists and donors don't have anywhere else to go so they are all fighting over a very large pie but it's only one pie. >> and some people are raising a lot of money making this money. 15%. >> millions of dollars. >> isn't that a lot of money? >> i want that kind of job. >> let's go over to you with the bad guy from new jersey. what is wrong with him? >> flipping people off may be charming in jail but not in --

he's finally discovered that. but he is who he is and so the question is whether he's -- he comes across as authentic when he's bridling his authentic self. >> none of your business emily, when he asked about where his kids were going to school because it did seem to be a private matter but in every occasion before his selling piece is pretty obnoxious. >> right. it's a big part of his persona. people love the bravado. is it real? maybe he was just tired on monday? i don't know. but i think one of the things we need to remember is the republicans last time ran a candidate who tried to scrub away who he really was and it didn't work. so is chris christie really going to run a campaign where he's trying to hide what has made him so appealing to our voters? >> giving the pressures of

presidential campaigns i don't think he's too far away from telling people to sit down and shut up again. i think it's going to happen and i think that's a problem for him. >> do you think that's one of the good things about campaigns, it rubs all the cover off? >> it's a ridiculous process but it's the harder test and gets harder as you move along and it should be because you're auditioning for the toughest job on the planet. >> i love the mistake candidates make. >> it was a bad moment. >> you can't protect people against -- >> people are going to make mistakes. the question is do the mistakes reveal something that voters take away from it or are they glitches? you know the bush thing, at the end of the day, doesn't strike me as something that is going to characterize him. but some of these other things are -- the problem is john podesta has to get control of the clinton operation and i think that's part of his job over there. >> one thing i like about joe

biden, none of them ever have hurt anybody, his gaffes. it didn't hurt anybody. i think he's amazing. he's a nice guy and makes mistake. up next we think we know it was coming but we didn't. jon stewart is leaving "the daily show." david axelrod was there when it happened in the green room. we're going to get the actual story when the story broke to this fella. we'll be right back, the place for politics. natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security. the new energy superpower? it's red, white and blue. log on to learn more. you get sick you can't breathe through your nose suddenly, you're a mouth breather. a mouth breather! well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. cold medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe

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vice president joe biden and attorney general eric holder awarded the medal of valor. among them the two police officers who confronted the boston terrorists. we'll be right back after this.

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school night. with my family. who i have heard from multiple sources are lovely people. >> funny guy. that was jon stewart, saying good-bye last night after 17 years on the job. he will be stepping aside as anchor of the "daily show." he earned his reputation as the leading voice of political satire, providing much-needed levity to the national debate on a nightly basis. we're back with the round table. david is there in the green room. >> it was stunning. i came in jon stewart came in and said listen i'm going to make an announcement tonight and you need to have a heads-up. it's going to make some news. i'm done i'm leaving. i was there, my wife was there. and some of my staff. and we were stunned. there was this weight of history. this guy has had an enormous impact on our politics and on society in some ways.

he's that big a figure. what interested me chris, was that in the coverage we had the brian williams story yesterday. and in some ways stewart leaving superseded that story. >> double-barreled with the big papers. >> which tells you how much -- this is the same day the president gave an interview. >> three new hampshires ago, i covered new hampshire, and the only person, all these big-shots, my daughter wanted to meet this guy named jon stewart who i never heard of. he was grabbing the young people very early on. >> he was. i think the younger generation he really has shaped the political attitude. >> is that like the froth on the beer? what is it that he delivers? all the kids in the audience, they seem to know all the political references, yet they don't read the paper. how do they know that stuff?

what is the answer to that question? >> it's why politicians treat him as a news man, not as a comedian or entertainer. i was on capitol hill all day today, actually asking lawmakers -- >> i saw you up there. >> that's right. i saw you in the hallway. asking them what it was about stewart's program that was so appealing. and one after the other, they called him a news man. there was no qualifier, no entertainer, nothing like that. they said without a doubt, the first show they want to go to to reach the younger voters is jon stewart. >> younger people do go to him to get their news. >> how do you get the news with these quick setups? i think you need to have the setup to know how the punch line works. >> i think he builds trust. >> you're not answering my question. >> none of us know -- >> i almost seem to know what he's talking about. >> i think the reason he connected with young people is he persistently called out hypocrisy, and lack of

authenticity. that's what kids hate about politics they hate all the game playing. he stripped it bare ridiculed it. young people reacted to that. i think it was very very powerful. >> he's got some guts too. he has guts. >> yeah he really does. he also -- there's a -- i wouldn't undersell how much young people read either. i think that -- >> the "times." >> yeah. hope springs eternal. >> exactly. >> but we're getting by somehow. but you think about how people consume news now, it's differently now. >> out in california they're reading paperbacks if anything. how do they read your paper? >> on their phones. >> you can do that now. >> thank you. i was pulling your leg there, sir. good luck with the book. i mean it.

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let me finish with this. what i hear tonight is the president of the united states blowing the bugle calling for the u.s. congress to back military action against isis. what i see are members of congress left and right heading

for the tall grass. the question of backing were opposing it, not for lawyers to answer but for citizens and their representatives. it's basic, do we do what we can militarily to destroy this regime that looks for americans to capture, frighten and ultimately kill with the maximum amount of public humiliation? or do we sit and watch the pictures coming in? does anyone among the ws transfer before our eyes into patton roaring tanks across the desert? will they let this thing get out of hand? are they unwilling to put any hand to a document that will put it before them in a primary. if he intended to lead a ground war against isis why would he put language in this authorization and rule out, quote, enduring offensive ground operations. people don't ask people to stop them from doing what they intend

to do. what seems to be going on here is a vast desire politicians to protect themselves. the safest place to hide is in the tall grass, where the other people are hiding. not up there with the president, called the congress to do its duty. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> this resolution reflects our objections to destroy isil. >> asking congress to vote for war six months after it starred. a community mourns after three people are murdered in chapel hill, north carolina. >> this was a hate crime from a neighbor. >> plus mitt romney -- find out why president obama is putting the office superstore on front street. >> shame on them. >>