were actually taking pictures of grizzly crime they committed and were sending those out. we may well see a similar level of posting by the actual shooters themselves. >> i want to let people know i'm paige hopkins with breaking news. reports of the new shooting in copenhagen and police are released some information for us. the danish place say three people were shot. one shot in the head and two police officers were shot. i believe one we're hearing were shot in the arm. the gunmen fled the scene. and this is a breaking story. it is not clear yet if this is connected to an earlier shooting in which one person was killed and several others wounded in an attack at a free speech vent. we're still waiting to hear more confirmation about that. so right now we don't have a connection. but joining me on the phone has been clint van zant.

clint is the likely these gunmen, we county kndon't know one or two. is it likely they would leave a sign or mark or something to let the police know that if in fact it is a terrorist group they can tech credit for it? is that something they would be looking for? >> i think that is legitimate statement. normally when we see these terrorist groups commit atrocities like this, they want to take credit. they want to say why they did it. whether it's for political or religious or financial reasons. and again as you suggest there was a rally this morning at a cafe. it was a debate basically on freedom of speech concerning that terrible cartoon that came out nonetheless about seven or eight years ago that depict eed the head of the prophet must

ham hammed with a dog. and that caused them to be on the top ten al qaeda most wanted lists. and even though we may not agree obviously with the topic of the cartoon, there are still people who suggest that he had the right to do it. well there are others who vehemently believe he shouldn't have done that. and we may have seen two more incidents related to that today. these two different shoots where we've had people shot. and then in this most recent one person shot in the head and two police officers, probably there for security, were both wounded. >> the danish police are starting to release more information. they are giving the following description, the person, the offender in this incident we're reporting on right now, the most recent one. is described as the male wearing black pants and black shoes and a light gray jacket with multicolored light fields. so sounds fairly nondescript.

nothing too political. >> no. and i think that is what possibly allowed the gunman to escape initially. you want to be able to blend in with the crowd. if in fact you are going to commit an act like that and you don't expect to die, if you expect to escape you are going to consider your jacket, clothing and shoes. you want to fwlend as much as you can with t -- blend in as much as possible so no one would say, you know, i saw this guy. but the shoes he had on, they weren't a local shoe. they were an international type shoe. i've heard people tell me that before. they have been able to identify an outsider based upon that. in this particular case that is the type of information danish police are trying to gather right now as they are trying to understand are these two acts related? and of course they have two police officers wounded. one in the leg and one in the

arm who were probably either there to provide security or were first responders. and they just like the police officers who were on scene at the studio in paris were some of the first ones who were shot. terrorist know if you take the police out first, then you pretty much got a free hand to do what you want to do. in this case commit murder. >> and what were the lessons from the paris shoots you think are going to help investigators right now in copenhagen? >> well again, the social media, the usage of cell phones that the terrorist would post or share the information. and that there would be some level of connection. as we know the paris authorities were able to link their shooters at these different crime scenes and very quickly not only identify the shooters but identify those people closest to them to include the girlfriend of the shooter at the

delicatessen. i would say that the copenhagen police are trying to do that same wiring diagram based upon the internet, based upon the cell phone, based upon pictures they come up and based upon informi informants likely to commit crime like. this it is always amazing when police start with nothing except victims and how quickly they are able to put a investigation together and identify the shooters and then start to go further and identify what other cells are involved. we know for example in paris it wasn't just the two brothers but the individual who was the shooter at the second location. they were able to identify a number of other individuals who supported their cells who have been arrested in paris. we'll probably see that same type of dragnet going all across

copenhagen if not all of denmark trying to identify other cell members or supporters of the shooter or shooters in these two situations today. >> and are we likely -- are the copenhagen police force likely to get help from other countries. perhaps french police or british? >> i think that the danish authorities will very quickly reach out to their international counterparts. there are a number of international law enforcement organizations, for example interpol, that most police departments subscribe to. they can gain information from. but again, as you indicate, the paris authorities have got thirty plus days of taking these cells apart and determining who did it and how, where they got their weapon, ammunition, etc. i would say the paris authorities will be a tremendous help as the danes try to put this together. >> and to see if there is any

connection between these groups or to see if this was some sort separate cell if indeed it is terrorism. >> yeah. and these are the things the we don't know. you know, whether there is a connection by telephone or internet or whether it's simply individuals inspired to take these acts or some type of command network like al qaeda or someone else who has put the word out okay, go ahead and activate these cells. we've been told these cells exist in the this united states. and i can guarantee you new y k york, chicago and every city in the united states plus the fbi listen leaning forward in their saddle today trying to get as much information as they can. >> cliff, thank you for talking to us. and we've been following the story of a new shooting in copenhagen hat a synagogue. three shot. one in the head. two of them were police

officers. keep it here on msnbc as we continue to follow this story out of copenhagen. ♪ the nissan rogue, with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is your imagination. now get 0% financing or up to $1,000 back on the 2015 nissan rogue. nissan. innovation that excites. with big aspiratio. an advanced degree could help you get where you want to go. but sometimes your career can feel like it's getting in the way of your career. now capella university offers flexpath, a revolutionary program that puts you on the most direct path, leveraging what you've learned on the job and focusing on what you need to know so you can earn a degree at your pace and graduate at the speed of you. flexpath from capella university.

learn more at capella.edu. that's keeping you from the healthcare you deserve.. at humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare gets simpler. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home. so let's do it. let's simplify healthcare. let's close the gap between people and care. get to the terminal across town. are all the green lights you? no. it's called grid iq. the 4:51 is leaving at 4:51. ♪ they cut the power. it'll fix itself. power's back on. quick thinking traffic lights and self correcting power grids

breaking news. this is a developing story. we have news of the new shooting in copenhagen den mark. this is hours after another shooting in denmark. three shot, two were police officers. one was shot in the head. we don't know the condition of any victims. the gunman fled the scene. we're working to connect the details and it is not sure if this is connected to the other shooting earlier at a free speech event. back to cliff van zant on the phone. former fbi hostage negotiator. the first shooting at a free

speech event and this one in a synagogue in copenhagen. it is pretty hard to not think they are related but they may not be. >> lest just talk about them being related for sure. the prime minister has already issued the statement suggesting that the danes get ready for tough days ahead. she said the government is treating these as terrorist type attacks. so obviously when you have the highest ranking political person in the country suggesting the potential of terrorist attacks, and therefore related, i think that that is the way the police are moving right now. realize that there is a massive man hunt. probably one of the larger man hunts in recent history for the danish police trying to find this shooter or shooters, who

have of course both shot both civilians and police officers at two different locations now. >> and what is what is the likelihood the shooter or shooters would boast about this on social media or something like that? >> they are going to be blanks -- the shooters themselves are balancing probably two if not three different considerations. number one is get away. number two is perhaps plan on yet another attack, a third attack. and number three would be to take credit. now, they wouldn't be able to do all of those themselves at the same time potential. but if they have any type of assistance. if in fact one againman or the same money began or two different gunman are the members of the same cells or working together they have some type of assistances that going to get the word out. and by that, take credit.

>> and clint, joining us now on the phone -- and i want you to stay with us as well -- is mikey k., a former british officer. thank you for joining us. what are you making of this news? >> yeah, i mean it is obviously the second incident that's happened within 24 hours. and i still think the authorities are still trying to actually work out what the motives were behind the shooting in the cafe we heard about less than 12 hours ago. i think it's almost impossible to dissociate the events over the last couple of months in france with the "charlie hebdo" shootings. one thing really interesting about denmark is the number of jihadists that have travelled to syr syria. is pretty high.

it's sort of on comparison with belgium if you like. but what's really fascinating is the way that the danish authorities are actually dealing with the jihadist fighters that are coming back. reports looking into the rehabilitation programs in denmark are quite interesting in terms of what one jihadist fighters have gone to syria and has come back have actually been locked up. there appears to be in denmark a more lenient approach in terms of the rehabilitation of jihadist fighters coming back into denmark. which is at odds really with france and u.k. the u.k. and france are taking a much harder approach to this type of thing. whether it will confiscating -- >> i just want to back you up a second. you said something that was quite interesting. you said that right now -- is

that true? denmark has the highest number of people leaving to become jihadist and get trained in syria. >> not the highest but not very far behind belgium in terms of per capita. >> and why? >> why is that? it is a great question. >> denmark is supposed to be the happiest country. >> in the world? >> i don't mean to be glib. but we always the -- why denm k denmark? in surveys that is what you usually read about denmark. >> it is sort of part of the scandinavian countries. denmark, norway and sweden. and i'm close to copenhagen myself. and you are right it is a notion of a very sort of happy country. but in terms of the radicalization of individuals and what triggers there and what makes that specific to denmark, i can't really answer that

question. look in terms of the geographic disposition of denmark and the ease of traveling through the eu and europe and borders because they are porous, i think that makes it a lot easier. if you look in terms of snoet denmark. if you look in terms of the disenfranchisement of individuals in denmark. i don't have that in information at my fingertips in terms of what makes the number of fighters traveling to denmark so high. i interviewed a radical clairic in lebanon and the tripoli about a year and a half ago and he was excited and forthwith telling me about the danish suicide bomber who had recently committed atrocity within syria. right from the out seth a year and a half there was it was prevalent there were fighters and jihadis coming from denmark to pick up on --. he also told me about this list,

so called list that existed where for the last two to three years there have been officers spread all over europe including denmark where people can go sign themselves up on this list to be used as suicide bombers in europe. fascinating. that is on a report recently. why specifically denmark? i don't know the answer. >> and does the government have a any way to track these people going in and signing up on these lists? >> i'm not aware. it's very clandestine. one of the problems we've had in terms of tracking people -- >> you know, mikey, i'm so sorry. we're going take a quick break. covering this story out of denmark and a it drives me crazy. can we do something about this? (doorbell) woah. it's a swiffer sweeper. it's working like a magnet.

ohhh! shed all you like, wolf. ♪ expected wait time: 55 minutes. your call is important to us. thank you for your patience. waiter! vo: in the nation, we know how it feels when you aren't treated like a priority. we do things differently. we'll take care of it. vo: we put members first... join the nation. thank you. ♪ nationwide is on your side at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping. but for people with copd, the world is filled with air. sometimes breathing air can be difficult. if you have copd, ask your doctor about once-daily anoro ellipta.

it helps people with copd breathe better for a full 24hours. anoro ellipta is the first fda-approved product containing two long-acting bronchodilators in one inhaler. anoro is not for asthma. anoro contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. it is not known if this risk is increased in copd. anoro won't replace rescue inhalers for sudden copd symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, or high blood pressure. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma, prostate or bladder problems, or problems passing urine as anoro may make these problems worse. call your doctor right away if you have worsened breathing, chest pain, swelling of your mouth or tongue, problems urinating or eye problems, including vision changes or eye pain while taking anoro. nothing can reverse copd. the world is filled with air, and anoro is helping people with copd breath air better. get your first prescription free at anoro.com.

the start of sneeze season.. and the wind-blown watery eyes. that's why puffs plus lotion is gentle on sensitive skin. so you can always put your best face forward. a face in need deserves puffs indeed. and try puffs softpack today. . i'm page hopkins with breaking news. a second shooting in copenhagen. danish police say three were shot in a synagogue. two police officer, one shot in the head. we're working to get more

details as the story is breaking. it is not yet clear if this is connected to an earlier shooting in which one was killed and several others wounded in an attack at the free speech event where a cartoonist who often portrays the prophet muhammed in his work. joining me now is the jim kavanagh an atf special agent. what was going on right now as far as what investigators are doing. i would imagine they must be afraid there will be a third shooting coming. >> clearly right paige. this is the thing law enforcement fears always in this kind of event. if it is the same shooter. if it is a copy cat shooter, or if it's a co-conspirator. so those are the possibilities. but this is two shootings in proximity. where they have to find out is this guy the same one. is it a confederate or a copy

cat. and they will look at the weapons, the bullets fired. they might be able to tell pretty quickly if it's the same weapon, the descriptions of the assailants. and there is clearly going to be asking the public's help to identify them from the video tape, pictures they have and if they can get some of the the synagogue. so this is a case where the whole country is going to want to help the copenhagen police. except for a few confederates maybe. but generally speaking t 99% of the people are on your side. the public is on your side. so that intelligence and tips, if they can push that information out quickly, descriptions, pictures. they might can get tips to locate this guy before he shoots again. >> in both shootings, the free speech event hours before and this shooting the gunman fled by

foot, which seems amazing considering they had just had a shooting hours before. where would a person like that escape to right away where he goes unnoticed. >> well he could go around the corner and jump in his car. if he sprays the police officers with bullets, you know, like you and clint were talking earlier. they first want to attack the police. so you have had five policeman shot today in copenhagen. so they are at the forefront of this. they clearly are repelling these -- this gunman or these gunmen. we don't know fights one or multiple guys. but the police have clearly repelled these shooters at both locations. and been wounded to prove it. but then the person or person stalking others. so the streets are becoming deserted. they have to set up a the command post. we've dealt with these kind of cases. d.c. sniper case.

random spree shooters. and police around the world. so there is a formula but the public is critical to help. >> and i also want to bring in mikey kay, former british investigator to join us. what groups do you think that we're talking about? you were telling us about all the jihadist going if denmark to syria to get trained and you said they come back in but don't have a high rate of the rehabilitation. are we talking about do you think al qaeda? isis? who are thank you thinking of? >> you know, i don't think we should be -- i don't think we have the information to actually align various groups. isis and al qaeda have quite different ideologies. isis is all about territory and the al qaeda is about ideology. and they have different mandates. one thing interesting about denmark is you have got the second largest city in denmark

which is called arhurst on the eastern side halfway up the danish peninsula. and there are a significant amount of residents, about 30 or so that have gone to syria. and when they come back they have been liked back to what's regarded as one of the most polarizing houses of worship in europe. and what police have been trying to do is police have given the imams of that mosque in the last three or four years an ultimate im. and bombs bullets and horses are well and good but they only cover a specific amount. and the danish authorities have zoned in on this mosque which is renowned for polarizing view of

zla islam. and also has listen linked 30 or so residents which is a significant portion going into syria. so the way the danish authorities have been dealing with has beenless asteer than the patricia. and they have been trying to negotiate or develop dialogues with the mosques and say look we'll either shut you down or compromise you unless we get understanding of the type of deals going on. so i think denmark is quite a specific and quite unique case study when it comes to not only the rehabilitation in the way the jihadists are being treated but what's triggering that notion of going to syria in the first place. and the other thing we can't forget is the danish paper that actually published cartoons of the prophet in 2006 which caused a real backlash within the

country as well. i think denmark has been part of that whole "charlie hebdo" type experience of the freedom of press which may have contributed. >> mikey, stay with us. you are watching msnbc. three shot, one shot in the head. in a synagogue. we'll be back with more on this breaking story so i'm one of many nurses at cigna with answers, anytime, day or night. i'm lauren, and i've got your back. dovisit tripadvisor new york. tripadvisor not only has millions of real traveler's reviews and opinions, but checks hundreds of websites, so people can get the best hotel prices. to plan, compare & book the perfect trip,

visit tripadvisor.com today. with big aspirations. an advanced degree could help you get where you want to go. but sometimes your career can feel like it's getting in the way of your career. now capella university offers flexpath, a revolutionary program that puts you on the most direct path, leveraging what you've learned on the job and focusing on what you need to know so you can earn a degree at your pace and graduate at the speed of you. flexpath from capella university. learn more at capella.edu. sensitry new always discreet up to 40% thinner, for superior comfort. absorbs 2x more than you may need. > whoa! ♪ ♪

welcome to the most social car we've ever designed. ♪ the all-new nissan murano.

♪ wix.com. it's that easy. i'm paige hopkins with breaking news. second shooting in copenhagen. three shot in a synagogue. two were police officers, a third was shot to his head. the gunman fled the scene. it is not yet clear if this is connected to an earlier shooting in which one person was killed and several others wounded in an attack at the free speech event. a free speech event where there was a cartoonist speaking known for his work portraying the prophet muhammed. joining me is the cliff van

zantz former fbi hostage negotiator. what are things people were look for to tell them these two shottings are not related. >> well they would be trying to suggest that two different groups would be taking credit for this. we know for example in the first shooting the police have already released a picture of the gunman. a loan gunman who used an automatic weapon to basically blow out the window of this cafe where this event was taken place. as you and i earlier discussed where the cartoonist had organized kind of free speech meeting and he was in attendance. now, he always has police protection, ever since 2007 when that death warrant came out for him. but when you announce a public event and say you are going to

be there, i think that kind of made it open season on him for terrorist who is chose to show up. in this case they had one shooter, i'm saying terrorist. one shooter for sure who shot out the window of the cafe, shot police officers hijacked a car. as you were talking to jim earlier. in this case he hijacks a car. flees and dumps the car and then is not seen. and of course now this second shooting has taken place. and it's interesting, we have already the reaction from france. we have one of the columnists with "charlie hebdo" who has released a statement saying we are danes. and of course we know 30 days ago the statement was we are all "charlie hebdo." >> interesting when you point out that the gunman earlier at the shooting at the free speech event hijacked a car. does that tell you anything that he didn't have a car waiting for him? >> yeah it does.

the question is of course how did he get there? and was he expecting o -- did he have a car parked nearby and didn't go to it for some reason. did someone take him to the scene of the shooting? he had to have transportation back and forth. the police have released a picture in the first shooting at least. they describe him as a 25, 30-year-old male with an athletic build. they have released picture of him in the same type dark clothing paige that you have indicated has been attributed to the shooter at this second scene at the synagogue. in the first shooting he had a scarf wrapped around his head. and the long reach of these situations. january 2013 the so called jihad jane was sentenced to ten years in prison because she was trying to assemble a group and

copenhagen and kill this same cartoonist. >> right. we were just hearing earlier about how denmark has a very high number of jihadist from denmark going to syria to get trained and coming back. when these jihadists go get training in syria, are they ever likely to come back if they want to strike to be a lone wolf? or do they always align? >> we know for example we heard the director of the fbi suggest numbers that can be 50, 100, 200 americans that have answered to a similar type of call, so to speak. and then have returned to the united states. and again american authorities tell us that most if not all of these individuals are under some type of surveillance. looking, trying to understand who are they in contact with. and might as you suggest paige, might they act as a lone wolf? well we know what we know.

the question -- the challenge is what don't we know. and the case of the copenhagen and denmark, how many citizens have gone overseas either to be fighters or receive some type of training and have returned to copenhagen either as lone wolves or part of some type of cell which may have either self activated or been activated by a larger group, hence these two shoot gds today. >> i want to bring pack in mikey kay. you were just listening to us and clint was talking about these jihadists coming back from syria and becoming activated. what is an activation? what is it that it takes to be the catalyst for someone to decide to act? >> you know, i think that is a -- that is a question that the authorities are still sort of battling with at the moment. you know, there are a number of things that can trigger this disenfranchisement if you like.

one of the big areas is the socioeconomic problems. we've seen that in france. france incidentally has the largest number of jihadists in europe that have travelled to syria. we've seen it in the u.k. i think what's fascinating when it comes to the actual numbers though is if you look at how many jihadists per million residents from various parts of europe that have travelled to syria, denmark comes number two. belgian has 22 jihadists per million residents. denmark has 18 per million. >> why denmark? >> well it all centers back when you look denmark's history it back to this arson in arhust. and the end of last year the united states actually added a

danish citizen of the moroccan dissent and he's known in these circles and he is actually now one of the u.s.'s listed wanted foreign terrorists. it comes back to the socioeconomic problems. it comes back to the type of toxicity that imams are talking about in mosques. and fact that we can't ignore foreign policy in terms of the effect we had when we went into iraq. there was a fascinating article by "the intercept". and they managed to get this interview of this guy in prison and talking about, you know, what caused him to trigger. and what struck me was that it is not something that happens overnight. it is something that develops over a period of time. and in this particular case it

was 2003. it was the fact that he was going to this mosque in canada. 2003 invasion of iraq. and then he and his friends would go to one of their houses and talk about how unhappy they were with what was going on and what they were seeing on western media. and then they were getting in with certain elements of the mosque. certain radicalized elements. not everyone is radicalized but there were a few toxic elements taking it to the next level. and it was a gradual process of becoming disenfranchised. >> and -- >> and kind of alienated from society around him. it is a multifaceted problem. >> and in this case when talking about these shoots and you earlier were speaking about this, do you think that perhaps denmark is -- since you had said they are a little more lenient about the jihadist than, say,

france and london? >> well i mean this is -- whether that is actually -- what we're trying to now look at is the reactive approach too. but what is the cure? we've been talking about the prevention in terms of the disenfranchisement. how do you prevent that and clear it once they have been disenfranchised. and i think the danes have taken this view that if you put someone in prison as soon as they come back from somewhere like syria, then prison is just yet another breeding ground to become more radicalized. i'm not saying agree or disagree but there are various notions where they would rather take a rehabilitation approach rather than a hard line approach >> okay. excuse me for interrupting. we've got to take a quick break you owned your car for four years.

you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. [ male announcer ] you wouldn't ignore signs of damage in your home. are you sure you're not ignoring them in your body? even if you're treating your crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis, an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation.

and if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. and then speak with your gastroenterologist. with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis.com. twhat do i do?. you need to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. ♪ there should be a truck leaving now. i got it.

now jump off the bridge. what? in 3...2...1... are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable. would you be willing to give up sharing your moments? sacrifice streaming all night long? is it okay to drop a connection, when you need it most? if you're not on the largest, most reliable network, what are you giving up? verizon.

. danish police are telling us about the second shooting taken place inside a synagogue. i want to go to the nbc news correspondent in london. >> the details are a little sparse but here is what we do know at this point. there's been a second shooting at the synagogue in central copenhagen. first got word of this about an hour, hour and a half ago. just past midnight local time in copenhagen. reports of one person shot in the head. it is not clear if this perp is connected to the synagogue or not. we also don't know their condition at this point. and two police officers shot as well in the arms and the legs. police say the suspect, the gunman in this particular case fled on foot. they don't know at this point whether or not this shooting is

connected to the cafe shooting. and really that is what we have at this point. possibly a man hunt for one gun -- well definitely a man hunt for one gunman. possibly for two. paige? >> can you walk us through the first attack? >> the first attack happened just after 4:00 this afternoon. this was at a cafe holding a cultural event in central copenhagen. a group of artist and free thinkers there and having a debate at free speech in islam including this man who has depicted the prophet muhammed as a dog. he drew those pictures back in 2007. he is a marked man. he knows that he's a marked man. had been for quite a long time. but insists on speaking out about free speech. what happened was they were having this conference at the cafe about 4:00 in the afternoon.

gunfire broke out. reports of 30 to 40 shots. reports of possibly an automatic weapon being used. police were shot as well. the gunman fled in a car first. the car was abandoned not far from the cafe. and then police released a picture of the man they believed to be responsible for this shooting. a fairly far away shot. difficult to identify the person in a hat, coat, possibly his face covered. the man hunt in that shooting is still ongoing. and as i said this synagogue shooting really just adds to the mystery is this connected or are we dealing with a second person here? >> kelly, thank you so much. i want to go right now the jim cavanaugh. former atf special agent. what have we learned from the paris shoots that investigators can use right now in denmark. >> we've learned they have got

to leverage the technology and information the citizens can provide. and they have got to do this thing to try to locate this one againm gunman or two. you had a great discussion mikey kay. and returning fighters have syria. clinton and you also talked about how the guy might have escaped. you see what happens with the terrorist and we can -- this would be a major league category for the commanders that this obviously would look at heart to be a terrorist radical al qaeda virus style crime or crimes because of the targeting. the person who had denigrated the prophet before had been a target. this is the cartoonist and in their minds he's been a target. and of course the jewish targeted the synagogue. and what happens often is

terrorists are criminals as well. they think like criminals and act like criminals. and criminals often see opportunity. so when this is an announced. for example this cultural meeting with the cartoonist at the cultural center which, may have only been announced a few days ago, a week ago or at a newspaper in public. then one of these local fanatics decides to act. you can tell by the nature of the crime that he was out front of the cultural center that people were inside interefrom t video we've seen. he shot through the windows and killed one man and wounded some officers. so if he wanted to kill the cartoonist which the cartoonists thinks he was the target, he wasn't successful. so it wasn't tremendously long-term planning. rather it was opportunity. we hate this guy. and always remember and mikey can elaborate on this i'm sure. always remember one of the

biggest things for the fanatics is they want to at every step connect themselves as the defenders of the prophet, as the vanguard for islam. they are always trying to make themselves religious and islamic. that is their goal. that is why they get power from that. so that is why they attack a target like this cartoonist as well. because they get power from that as the defenders of the faith. which we know they are. but that is what they want to grab on to. >> does the synagogue surprise you? >> no because the jewish targets have always been the targets of al qaeda style terrorism. >> my question -- excuse me for interrupting you jim. my question more is because we knew in the first shooting it was this cartoonist who was famous, a target. and then it just seems a typical saturday at the synagogue. there is nobody famous there. >> great question. you just got to think in the mind of the shooter, if it's the same one. could be a confederate or a copy

cat. but there is at least an even chance it is the same guy. >> we're going continue following this story. thank you jim. is a dads don't take sick days, dads take nyquil. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine. dovisit tripadvisor new york. tripadvisor not only has millions of real traveler's reviews and opinions, but checks hundreds of websites, so people can get the best hotel prices. to plan, compare & book the perfect trip, visit tripadvisor.com today.

with big aspirations. an advanced degree could help you get where you want to go. but sometimes your career can feel like it's getting in the way of your career. now capella university offers flexpath, a revolutionary program that puts you on the most direct path, leveraging what you've learned on the job and focusing on what you need to know so you can earn a degree at your pace and graduate at the speed of you. flexpath from capella university. learn more at capella.edu. ♪ ♪ the bold nissan rogue, with intuitive all-wheel drive. because winter needs a hero.

now get 0% financing or up to

go to the post office again. $1,000 back on the 2015er . out of denmark tonight. we've been telling you about the second shooting in copenhagen. three people shot, two were police officers. in a synagogue. one person was shot in the head. we don't know anything about their condition at this hour. the gunman fled the synagogue on foot. and we're working to find out more details. it is not clear at this hour if this is definitely connected to an earlier shooting in which one person was killed and several others wuntded in an attack at the free speech event that was organized by an artist who is known for his cartoons making funmuhammed. we were talking so much about the jihadists, mikey, and i

still -- when you think that this is denmark and you said they have the second highest number of people leaving denmark to get train in syria. you said second to belgium. >> per one million, paige. yeah. >> per one million. what activates people in denmark and i know we talk about disenfranchisement. but when clou lookout france which has such a large muslim population. there's been attention and they have had riots in the suburbs over the last couple years. what is it that is sparking jihadists. >> if we look at numbers france has around 4.7 million muslims. belgium around 630,000 and denmark is around 230,000 figure. in terms of percentages it is all relatively around the same. about 4% of the muslims make up

the population. when it goes -- when you look at why denmark versus belgium, versus france, i don't think we have that information at hand yet, which is specific to, you know, countries or governments or political persuasions or policies. >> or cultures, yeah. >> or cultures. i think that is a fascinating subject, where, you know, there are so many aspects you can analyze. for example if you look at the united kingdom, you can look and say it's one of america's main allies. heavily involved in the in addition initiation of the iraq war in 2003 and you can draw parallel. you can can't really do that with denmark. they're involved in the foreign policy front but not as the likes of others.

so i go back to the second largest city in ar hurst. and there are projects that have been building since around the 1960s where the population, various aspects of it have sort of suffered in terms of lack of employment, education opportunities and so on and so forth. and then when you sort of look at mosques that spring up, if you have a main mosque that many of these people in that community attend and you have a couple of bad eggs in that mosque. and then, you know, you look at terrorism in jihadism in the context of the globalization and how isis has the ability to, you know, reach out to anyone whether they be in the u.s. or in the u.k. or denmark. the point is that all of these countries have access to internet and good internet speed, download speed. the isis and al qaeda now have the ability to upload on to

youtube and twitter. and we know that's a big problem. again it is hard to analyze. your question is a good one but it is the million dollar question of the prevention versus -- >> i want to ask you about the cure. you were saying the cure. a lot of times countries take these jihadists throw them in prison. this can be a breeding ground and denmark had a different approach. tell us about this. >> yeah. when we sort of look at how different countries are doing or going about their business as we were talk about before in terms of the context of the foreign policy i think what is really interesting here is the cure that denmark has taken approach with and not being as hard line a as u.k. or france. they are going more rehabilitation approach. and i think that's really

interesting. i'm not sure which approach works. and if you look at the reason jihadists go to syria some of them are because they feel alienated from society. if you then put that person straight into prison where there is a breeding of the discontentment you are not going solve the problem unless you keep them locked up for forever. and as the weeks and months go ie by and we see the atrocities isis are committing and it is not just about a pilot or western hostages. isis are slaughtering sunni, shias, ju jews, christians. and they are even slaughtering. jihadists in foreign countries have come to syria and not really appreciated what isis is about and wanting too leave. and isis have gone sorry and are executing these people. so i think as we go forward i

think there might be an argument to take these people and kind of understand, you know, from a rehabilitation process of why they did that. because a lot of the jihadists coming back are the actually quite disillusioned with the jihad and what isis are and actually have made a mistake. so again it's a careful balance, understanding and getting into the minds of these jihadists. not every one jihadist is triggered at the same time or reason or toer same period of time. so it's important for the intelligence authorities to maybe try to understand why these are happening. >> and again we don't know exactly which group, if this is indeed organized -- these two shootings were organized or if it's isis related or anything at this point. >> yeah that is important. >> we ant to let people know that. mikey thank you so much. again we've been studying the

story of a second shooting in copenhagen. three shot, two police officers. one person was shot in the head. the gunman fled the scene. it is not clear whether this is connected to an earlier story. keep it right here on msnbc. we'll bring you details as they become available. >> what was the symbol back in the day, when you had like the kkk and stuff like that? they would hang people. >> a self-described white supremacist may not be who he says he is. >> he has a mixed brother and sister. he's not a racist. >> and that can make him a marked man among other white supremacists. >> if you get caught being countet,