stateville is still a very dangerous place. for msnbc, i'm john seigenthaler. due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. >> msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons, into a world of chaos and danger. now the scenes you've never seen. "lockup: raw." >> i don't know what else you want. this is it. this is life. okay? you know. you got your cell. you got this. and the yard. that's all there is. prison consists of nothing else. inside this cell, couple hours, maybe, in a day room. couple hours maybe on the yard. and that's it. day after day after day after

day after day after day. it's the same thing. nothing changes. >> 90% of prison life is actually boredom. and it's what the inmates do with this down time, this lack of stimuli that has led to some of the most interesting parts about "lockup." >> the monotonous grind of life in prison can push some inmates to the limit. in trying to understand how they deal with the specter of never being free again, we've met some of our most memorable characters, and recorded some of our most dramatic footage. >> i'm serving a life without parole sentence, two life sentences, two 99-year sentences, a 40-year sentence, a 20-year sentence and a 10-year sentence. all together. >> at the time of our visit, bobby gilbert had been at alabama's holman correctional facility for only four years.

but he first landed in prison at the age of 18. he told us how a minor dispute over money led him to murder an acquaintance from his town. >> basically told me only way i could get my money would be over his dead body, you know. i was hot-headed then, so that's how i got it. >> how much money did he owe you? >> he owed me $36. and i paid $37 for the gun i killed him with. so, you know -- >> once behind bars, gilbert's violent temper led to numerous other crimes. including stabbing another inmate to death. this time for much less than $36. but gilbert made it clear to us, in prison, things aren't always as they seem. >> everybody wants to talk about, you know, i killed somebody over a carton of cigaret cigarette. you know it's not a carton of cigarettes. that may be the catalyst that leads to something, but, you know, for -- if somebody owes me a soda pop, or i owe them a soda

pop and they come to me and say hey man i need to get that soda pop you owe me and i spit in their face and call them a bitch or something, and then they kill me whose fault is it? it ain't about the pop no more. you call the police and put a stop to it. what do you do in here? i tell you what you do, you go get you a knife and you stab that son of a bitch and say you ain't taking nothing else. that's the end of it. here's what happens when you come to take something from me. >> we're going to bobby gilbert. >> 10-84 your unit. >> gilbert's life behind bars is often punctuated by his frequent battles with holman's warden grantt culliver. at the time, culliver and a disciplinary committee were about to review gilbert's recent behavior and his request for a transfer to a prince closer to his family's home. but within moments, other inmates with the "lockup"

cameras present decided to interrupt the shoot by banging on the cell doors. that's when warden culliver decided to take matters into his own hands. >> you don't [ bleep ] beat on the door again. you, you! i want you to do it. you do it. you beat on the [ bleep ] door again. i don't be no [ bleep ] beat on the [ bleep ] door again. once the inmates calmed down, gilbert's hearing got under way. his appeal for a transfer was quickly dismissed. but it didn't take long for gilbert to make another request. one to help beat the boredom of prison life. the return of his recently confiscated chess set. >> why can't i have my chess pieces, warden culliver? >> segregation. >> i'm going to play chess. >> let me tell you what you do. get you some paper, draw you out a checker board -- >> i can play in my head >> i just don't see where it can hurt anybody to let somebody have something semiconstructive

to do in their cell. >> i see a law library clerk next time they come through to bring you a copy of the add minimum reg and see if you're supposed to have chess pieces. >> you're the man that run this please. >> i follow the regs. >> that's what i'm saying. that's your decision. >> i follow the regs. >> going gb to be able to have books. and we don't. >> nope. because it don't say that. if it said that you'd have them. it's segregation. it wasn't meant to be nice. you ain't here for going to church. you ain't here because you was doing something constructive. you ain't been doing something constructive -- >> i was doing something constructive until they [ bleep ] me down the hall. >> it's always somebody else's fault. you want us to be exhibit some form of model behavior. but then every avenue is closed to us to do anything constructive. we can't read a novel because we can't have one. i can't play chess through the mail like i used to because my chess piece s was took away fro me. jump being up on the door

sticking my [ bleep ] through the tray door every time a female come through there i guess that's model behavior. >> our cameras followed gilbert back to his cell. where he continued to fume over his chess set. >> i got somebody just to give me one reason, semiintelligent reason why it would hurt somebody to sit in a cell locked in here by myself with some chess pieces. ain't hurting nobody in the world. but that's the d.o.c. for you. that's rehabilitation at its finest. >> next on "lockup: raw." >> there's nothing i've done that god has not forgiven me for. >> a serial killer claims he found god. >> is it a greater sin to steal a cracker, or to kill someone? >> and another "lockup" inmate finds saving -- >> in the same of satan the ruler of the earth i command the forces of darkness to bestow the infernal power upon me. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good.

it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. [meow mix jingle slowly anright on cue.cks] [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name. think the tree we carved our names in is still here? probably dead... how much fun is this? what? what a beautiful sunset... if you like sunsets. whether you're sweet or salty... you'll love nature valley sweet and salty bars. intercourse that's painful due noboto menopausal changesit... it's not likely to go away on its own. so let's do something about it. premarin vaginal cream can help it provides estrogens to help rebuild vaginal tissue and make intercourse more comfortable. premarin vaginal cream treats vaginal changes due to menopause and moderate-to-severe painful

intercourse caused by these changes. don't use it if you've had unusual bleeding, breast or uterine cancer, blood clots, liver problems, stroke or heart attack, are allergic to any of its ingredients or think you're pregnant. side effects may include headache, pelvic pain, breast pain, vaginal bleeding and vaginitis. estrogens may increase your chances of getting cancer of the uterus, strokes, blood clots or dementia so use it for the shortest time based on goals and risks. estrogen should not be used to prevent heart disease, heart attack, stroke or dementia. ask your doctor about premarin vaginal cream. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping.

i'm just looking over the company bills.up? is that what we pay for internet? yup. dsl is about 90 bucks a month. that's funny, for that price with comcast business, i think you get like 50 megabits. wow, that's fast. personally, i prefer a slow internet. there is something about the sweet meditative glow of a loading website. don't listen to the naysayer. switch to comcast business today and get 50 megabits per second for $89.95. comcast business. built for business.

until we get there, we'll never really live in the light. we'll always live in the darkness. >> take your time! >> few events in life can motivate somebody to find religion like a life sentence. >> you know you hear a lot of people who come to prison and oh, i found god. well, i did. >> robert fry's religious conversion came only after he found himself on death row at the penitentiary of new mexico. >> i'm in for four counts of murder. and i'm currently serving three life sentences. >> i thought maybe we might do -- >> today, fry is a regular at a prison bible study. the inmates, all death row and maximum security, are confined to their cells. >> i apologize for all the

filming going on here. this isn't about me. this is about this fellowship. showing what prison fellowship in christ is doing for us. >> reporter: fry's crimes were both numerous and gruesome. >> i was very angry, very confused. >> fry received a death sentence for bludgeoning and stabbing to death a 36-year-old mother of five in 2000. >> you best show your love for god by the way you show you love for your fellow man. >> he has three other murder convictions, as well. fry beat one man with a shovel and threw him off a cliff. another victim was nearly beheaded. but when he sat down with us, fry told our producer he was confident of one thing. >> i believe i'm going to be with my lord. when i die, i go to my maker with a clear conscience. because i have accepted him as a my savior and i have asked forgiveness of my sins. >> do you feel like your god forgives you? do you feel -- >> he's your god, too. >> okay --

>> god forgives all. god loves everyone, regardless. >> fry would not discuss his crimes with us. but our producer pressed him on whether his victims would be as forgiving as he believes god will be. >> what would you say then if you actually showed up to the afterlife and there were the people that you had victimized? >> hello, brother. you know. when we go to the kingdom of god there is no anger, there is no strife. all that will be taken from us. ♪ amazing grace the people i've hurt directly i do beg forgiveness. you know. but i've already asked god for his forgiveness. and all i can do is ask you to please foregift me and if you don't, okay. then you get to live with the power of your own hate. >> fry surprised our crew when he placed his four brutal murders on the same plane as another crime. >> let me ask you a question. is it a greater sin to steal a cracker or to kill someone? >> to kill someone. >> god doesn't see it that way.

you break one sin, you break all sin. if you are guilty of the least of this, you are guilty of all. so, what does it matter what sin you perpetrate? sin is sin. ♪ amen >> sounds like somebody running over a cat with a lawnmower. >> today, fry remains on death row at the penitentiary of new mexico while continuing hayes peels. >> even at the hour of your death, if you turn to god, and are truly repentant of the things you've done, he'll forgive you and he will accept you, and he knows. >> what if that's not the case? >> that is the case, though. >> but what if it's not? >> that is. >> but what if it's not? i mean have you considered that. >> you can say what if and why about anything in the world but it's faith -- >> does it ever come into your mind that maybe the interpretation is not quite there and maybe meeting a different kind of maker? >> no. no. it's faith. faith brought me to god. faith cleansed me of my sins and

faith will see me through. >> when we visited iowa state penitentiary we found the prison attempts to provide services for a wide range of religious beliefs. >> a lot of religions are just a quieting, mellowing, peaceful time and so for them to pray to see god answer something is just very, very special, so it's empowering. >> then we met an inmate named travis wolfkill. >> in the name of satan the ruler of the world i command darkness to bestow the eternal power upon me. i'm in a satanic group here. only about four of us here. it's real small community. the church of satan is about enjoying life. it's about doing what you want to do. we believe in indulgence rather than abstinence. we believe in doing what makes us happy, and what improves the quality of our life. >> such an attitude may have been what led wolfkill to a life

sentence without the possibility of parole for murdering his grandmother over a $300 tax refund check. but he told us he has found a salvation of sorts in his religion. >> this is what's called the eleven satanic rules of the earth. and if you look at number nine, it says do not harm little children. number ten says do not kill nonhuman animals unless you are attacked or for your food. so that right there itself just destroys all the bad stereotypes that you have about this religion. there's no human sacrifice. >> later in our meeting, we asked wolfkill to clarify a few points about his church's doctrine. >> you had pointed out number nine. >> yeah. >> what is that again? >> it says do not harm little children. >> and tell me the next one. >> it was do not kill animals unless you're hunting. unless you need them for food. actually. >> you said do not kill

non-human animals. >> no. is that what it said? non-human animals? okay. do not kill -- >> it begs a question. >> non-human animals, yes. that sounds about right. >> but yet you're here for murder. >> yes. yeah. it says do not kill little children. i'm not in here for killing a child. >> coming up -- >> if i'm not busy, i have a tendency to get in trouble. >> "lockup" discovers true talent behind bars. ♪ it's either kill or be skilled yeah if you're scared to make a knife then the next [ bleep ] will ♪ an impact on something as big as your retirement? i don't think so. well if you start putting that towards your retirement every week and let it grow over time, for twenty to thirty years, that retirement challenge might not seem so big after all. ♪

you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. nineteen years ago, we thought, "wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad?" so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress. and effortlessly turn your photos into finished projects with our angie's list app. visit angieslist.com today. ♪

♪ hey, john! john and horace dodge launched their first car in 1914. but they were not only business partners, they were brothers. competitive... stubborn... and always pushing each other, the way only brothers can. ♪ one hundred years later, i'm just looking over the company bills.up? is that what we pay for internet?

yup. dsl is about 90 bucks a month. that's funny, for that price with comcast business, i think you get like 50 megabits. wow, that's fast. personally, i prefer a slow internet. there is something about the sweet meditative glow of a loading website. don't listen to the naysayer. switch to comcast business today and get 50 megabits per second for $89.95. comcast business. built for business. a life behind bars can lead some inmates to further destruction. even death. but others use the time to create something meaningful. >> you know you need a segment of the talent inside these walls.

>> "lockup" producers only had to walk to the other side of the dorm, at the holman correctional facility in alabama, to learn how right he was. >> that's all i play, blues, country and old rock 'n' roll. i don't mess with the hard rock stuff. >> while robert tetter passes time playing music, that's not what amazed our crew. it's that tetter builds his own guitars out of one of the few recreational resources ahowed inmates, model boat kits. >> this is 2 1/2 boat kits makes this one. all of these are stood up together, glued together, to make this neck like this and down inside of it we have one radio. the tone control, three controls down here, the set of batteries, and this one back here is the mic mixer. then we use magnets to hold the lid on it. ♪ >> tetter always includes one other element on his guitars.

it's for his mousse. >> everything i do i dedicate to my wife. the blue heart is because we've been separated for 23 years now. and she's still with me. she's sticking with me right through this. and i always put a blue heart on every letter i mail to her. every card i send her. and i put a blue heart on the case and on the guitar. it's just our symbol. being separated so long. >> while music helps tetter cope with life at holman we met another inmate who finds his aggressive tendencies are soothed in the prison hobby shop at the spring creek correctional center in alaska. >> patrick harrington. >> patrick harrington? >> yes, i've been in this prison since june of 1988. august will be 20 years.

charge, murder. murder in the first. i try to get to the hobby shop here as much as i can. for me, if i'm not busy, i have a tendency to get in trouble. when the place first opened up i wasn't really busy, i was in fights. basically beating up other people. >> but in the hobby shop, harrington focuses those energies on something far more delicate. an incredibly detailed doll house he was building as a gift for his niece. >> i've been working on this doll house for about two years now. and it's for that young girl, but the young girl, she has no idea i'm making it. she has no idea it's coming down there. >> harrington gave our crew a tour of his masterpiece. >> the windows here, they all work. up and down. all the doors open and close. all the lights work. the doors oip. all the yellow colored wood is the natural color of the wood. this door up here, it's pulldown stairs. so like a little doll can come up, come around up top. the shingles are individual. this is real brick.

900 individual bricks. yeah, it's a lot of work. it's a lot of fun. you know. >> with hobby shop security consisting of little more than surveillance cameras, time spent here is a privilege accorded to only the most trusted inmates. >> you know there is no officer in here. officers do walk through here at times. you know the windows, they look through the windows. but while this hobby shop has been here there's been no fights, no trouble in here. >> thank you. >> just a few months away from finishing his niece's present, harrington already has his next project lined up. >> my brother has another daughter that's a year and a half. so will i have to make another doll house for her other daughter? maybe. if i do, well, you know, i'll do it. >> with a 99-year sentence, he'll have plenty of time to build many more doll houses. >> i could go to the parole board in 2019. so, will i get it? i don't know. but there's a chance. >> in the exercise yard at california state prison

corcoran, we met an inmate whose art is inspired by his life. >> tell me your name. >> kevin moore, m-double o-r-e. >> what were you convicted of? >> doing a parole violation for sales of marijuana. >> the yard is an interesting place because you never know who you're going to run into. you never know who you're going to talk to. you never know what personality or who they are. i kind of just started looking around and trying to find interesting looking faces. so i happened upon kevin moore. he started telling me that he's a rap artist. he's a ghost yeutter. >> i got a record deal waiting on me at death row records for anybody, anybody wrap fans that's listening my aka is sassooon and i've got a demo coming out in a few months. >> when you start talking to inmates, you're not really sure what to believe. they start telling you these stories and you're kind of like saying all right. >> i've been a ghost writer in the wrap industry for about 13 years. a lot of stuff that i've written from behind these walls i've

sold to other artists that have been out there and been successful. >> i said well do a rap for me. and then he just like he just rolled one right off his lips, and it was called 15 to life. >> you ready? here we go. ♪ 15 to life ♪ doing 15 to life >> changed like a chain it's going to be a rough ride because i'm about to do time for the crime of a homicide ♪ >> when we met him moore was 17 days away from his release date. >> now finally my head's straight, and i'm going to go for that, because i'm burnt out on this. you don't see no females. you don't see no laughter. this is like a cemetery. once you here you stuck it's like you dead. it's like you dead here. a lot of cats here you might as well consider them dead. i don't you know i got home boys that you could consider deceased that are right here. that have been forgotten. i don't want to be one of them cats. >> still, moore could not guarantee he would stay clear of conflicts that might keep him here. >> i'm 17 days from going home.

ain't no way i'm going to do something, you know what i mean, to delay my stay here unless it's something that can't be avoided like a racial situation somewhere. i have to react. ♪ back to the zone and if the race war is on i might not make it home you got the brown and the whites against the blacks the first rule of the game is watch your back it's either kill or be killed if you're scared to make a knife then the next [ bleep ] will so find me some steel and make a strap lay in the trap like a mercenary death trap because if i have to do time i rather do it ♪ >> i'm sitting there listening to words, and he's basically running about every little experience that he's had inside there. >> like doing 15 to life. that's it. >> right here. >> what you talking about, baby. >> yeah.

can this decadent, fruit topped pastry... ...with indulgent streusel crumble, be from... fiber one.

fiber one streusel. ♪ hi, tom. how's the college visit? does it make the short list? yeah, i'm afraid so. it's okay. this is what we've been planning for. knowing our clients personally is why edward jones is the big company that doesn't act that way. [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. [ m'm... ] great taste. [ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.® ♪ campbell's healthy request. by 1914 the dodge brothers quit the ford motor company and set out on their own. they believed in more, than the assembly line.

they believed driving was a holy endeavor. a hundred years later, the dodge brothers spirit

when the economy took a downturn this printer saw the benefit of taking small orders, and working more business to business. find out how going small saved his company. and the ceo of 1-800-got-junk with advice on how your business can clean up. that and more coming up next on "your business."