yourself. >> we'll be posting more of our interview on our website msnbc.com. "now" with alex wagner starts right now. jeb bush is not his brother's keeper. he is just keeping a lot of his brother's ideas. it's wednesday, february 18th, and this is "now." >> i'm just a gladiator these days. >> jeb bush giving his very first speech on foreign policy. >> test the waters ahead of a likely run for the white house. >> i love my brother, i love my dad, but i'm my own man. >> i stand on my own two feet. >> convincing voters he would be a different kind of president bush. >> i'm more than just the

invasion of iraq in 2003. >> he's got to thread an incredibly narrow needle here. >> i'm just a gladiator these days. >> we are awaiting live remarks from president obama who is due to speak shortly on countering violent extremism, but we begin with the man who is his own man, jeb bush trying to distinguish his views on foreign policy. in his speech today to the chicago council on global affairs, bush embraced the legacies of his father and brother. >> i'm my own man. my views are shaped by my own thinking. one thing we know is this -- every president inhertits a changing world.

>> there are newly minted jeb advisers that hail from the land of w. porter goss and michael hayden and steven hadley. it was inevitable that the former florida governor would be forced to walk a fine line on the legacy of iraq. >> there were mistakes made in iraq for sure. using the intelligence capability that everybody embraced about weapons of mass destruction turns out not to be accurate. not creating an environment of security after the successful taking out of hussein was a mistake. >> jeb bush believes in second chances. joining me now is steve kornacki

and casey hunt. was the audience convinced that jeb bush is his own man? >> well alex this is an audience at the chicago council of global affairs, it was a welcoming audience for him, although he blasted through his prepared remarks. there wasn't quite time for applause lines. it is hard to tell in some ways how they reacted. he was walking this very careful line saying i'm my own man, but largely staying away from criticizing them. criticism was not included in his prepared remarks, iraq was not included in his prepared remarks, but it did come up in the q and a session. he called the surge in 2007 one of the most politically heroic

moments. he said he didn't build on the policies that my brother implemented. it is hard to see the policy difference at this point between jeb bush and george w. bush. circumstances are different and changing and every candidate faces a new time and a new period, and that's what he's arguing here today. >> to casey's point that it was hard to see the measurable differences between jeb and george w. bush how much of that is an issue for him? >> it is more complicated for him in terms of winning the nomination of the republican party. it's been historically a more hawkish party. given isis and all the developments of the last year or so it is moving in an even more hawkish direction. you have the rand paul spot occupied. i think paul is more

marginalized on the ground movements in the middle east. i think what we were seeing today was the sort of a start of a narrative that you're going to hear when this comes up from bush that basically tells a story that george w. bush was motivated by the right reasons to go iraq. >> that is fairly nuanced. >> he saved it with a surge and who lost the surge? obama. that's the story they're going to tell. i don't think this is something they can do successfully, but can they pull it off in a good enough way to move onto something else? >> there is a vinynn diagram. if you are trying to delineate yourself, why hire all of the same guys? >> because it is not necessarily the people.

it is the policy and the policy is set by the man in charge presumably the president of the united states obviously, but the presidential candidate. so jeb bush will build off of what these individuals bring to the table. you're not going to trash experience no matter what you may think of it in the context of the bush administration or bush 41 for that matter. you have to look at it. how does jeb bush bring his power to the conversation? what is the personality he places on these individuals that allows them to maybe -- you assume all of them agreed with the policies as implemented by president bush. obviously that was not the case with colin powell for example. >> but paul hasn't had issue to mea culpa. >> i don't expect that is the prerequisite going forward. you can't take it at face value

that paul is now with jeb that that is going to be the same policy. i don't think you can make that correlation. >> granted jeb bush if he is the president, will be his own man. he is physically not the same person as george w. bush. but let me just ask you a question. if you are an american voter and here is jeb bush who has a careful, very difficult and nuanced line to tread on iraq specifically and jeb bush has now hired george bush's adviser on iraq it makes that case a lot more difficult, does it not? >> i disagree. i don't think it does. i would wait to hear what jeb bush has to say. what is going to be the going forward principals that he's going to apply to that region to that country? i'm not going to take it on face value. if you were to bring colin powell back into the situation, what does that say? we don't know. let's wait to see how he lays out that policy when he really

gets into the meat of the conversation during the presidential campaign and should he win as president. >> casey, presumably the point of this speech in front of the council in chicago was to burnish jeb bush's foreign policy credentials. there was the difficult answer he gave on iraq. there were mistakes occurring the course of his q and a saying he made the mistake of understating isis. he also had a sort of undeveloped, if you will, strategy on isis which amounted to we have to take them out. a little less detail than folks would perhaps want at this time. there were some misspeaking on boca haram and al baghdadi.

how much do you think that weakens his argument that he is prepared at this moment in time? >> first of all, it was very clear he was much more comfortable in the q and a session. the mistakes he made all came during the prepared remarks that he just slammed through. he was much more comfortable when he was seated talking to the moderator, and the audience. i'm not so sure i would read into those mistakes. to make one point on these list of advisers, it is hard to find advisers from the romney and mccain administration. if you're looking for foreign policy talent that has experience, you have to look to 41 and 43. you have to consider where bush is positioning himself right new in this nomination fight. this shock and awe campaign of trying to overwhelm the rest of the field with his dominance.

i think that what you're seeing is the longest list that could put together of foreign policy heavyweights that are with him and not other republican candidates. >> steve, you have a piece today talking about the liabilities of a george bush/jeb bush legacy. you talk about the tea party being more of a problem for him than george w. bush. >> we talk about iraq and the problems there for jeb bush. i think there is a problem there for him in the general election but i think the more immediate problem is getting this republican nomination. i think back to how george w. bush won the nomination back in 2000. he did it because the party was coming out of the 1990s. impeachment, the government shutdown, they kept losing. the conclusion of the republican party was we just want to win. we need our own bill clinton. you had a moderate message from

george w. bush in 2000 and a right wing party that had to go along with it because they wanted to win. they said we sold our souls in the name of winning. he got big government conservativism. we got an economic catastrophe and we got barack obama. basically the tea party sprung up as a, a way of opposing obama, but, b, making sure the republican party never goes down that path again. bush is entering a totally universe than his brother did. everything jeb bush is saying right now is being measured can we trust this guy. george w. bush got a free pass in 2000. >> i'm sorry. we are tight on time because we have a lot of breaking news this hour. after we come back president obama is set to speak

about countering violent extremism both at home and abroad. we'll bring you those remarks next on "now." es assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.

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in the latest sign of the growing threat of isis in iraq islamic state militants have burned to death 48 people in the western iraqi town of al baghdad baghdadi. it has not been confirmed by nbc news and the u.s. government has not been able to verify them. at any moment president obama will address law enforcement, religious leaders, and dignitaries from about 60 countries. what will those efforts look like? president obama gave a preview, including lifting up the voices

of muslim clerics and scholars who teach the true peaceful nature of laumislam. joining me now is political director and moderator of "meet the press," chuck todd. the white house hastily put this together in january after the attacks in paris. what do you think are the president's explicit goals in doing this at this moment? >> i think part of it is if you were to look at it and take it at face value is to share best practices with other countries. the fact of the matter is -- and you say this and you want to knock on wood -- but the fact of the matter is we have not had the radicalization issue in this country, whether it is dearborn or twin cities. in europe the radicalization has

motivated terrorist attacks in some form or another. that's not to say we haven't had any incidents, but we have certainly had fewer. why is it the u.s. can assimilate much better in a way than europe can assimilate? you can argue that's the best thing to come out of this. but this is coming at a time where we're having this debate and i was just looking at the fact sheet that the white house just put out to go in conjunction with the president's statement. i can predict exactly what some of the criticism is going to be of the president. you don't see the word islam islamic anywhere in the fact sheet. frankly, i'm told there is actually debate inside the white house about should they be avoiding the phrase radical

islam or not? do you say it to force other countries and leaders to tackle this because happening in their religion and faith? >> there are different types of extremism here at play. i think one of the criticisms the white house has gotten is this is too broad an umbrella. >> it comes across as if they are trying to be so politically correct that they're losing focus on what the problem is which is you have a group of -- there was an article in "the atlantic" that was kprarcomparing isis to a cult. it is a cult that is using a perversion of islam to create a cult of death. the problem here -- nobody is saying there is not extremism in

every religion but what is the acute issue at hand right now that the western world is dealing with? it is this group that is using islam, a radical form of it to try to recruit terrorists. >> there are some folks that would say by targeting and saying islam, making this a muslim issue, that further alienates the sort of moderate communities that are necessary in the overall battle. >> that's the problem with this debate because i think you're right. it goes too far in the other direction. i go back to what should this focus be on. what should the goal be? the fact of the matter is for all of the flaws we can find the united states does a better job at assimilation with muslim communities than the west of western europe does. how does western europe learn? >> chuck, i'm going to break into your comments.

the president is about to speak about counter violent extremeism at the white house. >> lisa is an example of the countless dedicated public servants across our government a number of whom are here today, who are working tirelessly every single day on behalf of the security and safety of the american people so we very much appreciate here. thanks to all of you for your attendance and participation in this important summit. for more than 238 years, the united states of america has not just endured, but we have thrived and surmounted challenges that might have broken a lesser nation. after a terrible civil war, we repaired our union. we weathered a great depression. became the world's most dynamic

economy. we fought fascism, liberated europe we faced communist and won. each time we rebuild. the bombing that killed 168 people could not break oklahoma city. on 9/11 terrorists tries to bring us to our knees. today a new tower soars above new york city and america continues to lead throughout the world. after americans were killed at ft. hood and the boston marathon, it didn't divide us. we came together as one american family. in the face of horrific acts of violence at a siek temple, we reaffirmed our commitment to pluralism and freedom, repulsed by the notion that anyone should

ever be targeted because of who they are, what they look like or how they worship. most recently with the brutal murders in chapel hill of three young muslim americans, many muslim americans are worried and afraid. and i want to be as clear as i can be. as americans, all faces and backgrounds, we stand with you in your grief and we offer our love and we offer our support. my point is this. as americans we are strong and we are resilient. when tragedy strikes, when we take a hit, we pull together and we draw on what's best in our character. our optimism, our commitment to each other, our commitment to our values our respect for one another. we stand up and we rebuild and recover and we emerge stronger

than before. that's who we are. [ applause ] and i say all this because we face genuine challenges to our security today, just as we have throughout our history. challenges to our security are not new. they didn't happen yesterday or a week ago or a year ago. we have always faced challenges. one of those challenges is the terrorist threat from groups like al qaeda and isil. but this isn't our challenge alone. it's a challenge for the world. isil is terrorizing the people of syria and iraq. beheads and burns human beings and unfathomable acts of cruelty. we have seen deadly attacks in ottawa sydney and paris and

now copenhagen. we have marshalled the full force of the united states government and we're working with allies and partners to dismantle terrorist organizations and protect the american people. given the complexities of the challenge and the nature of the enemy, which is not a traditional army this work takes time and will require vigilance and resilience and perspective. but i'm confident that just as we have for more than two centuries, we will ultimately prevail. part of what gives me that confident is the overwhelming response of the world community to the savagery of these terrorists. not just revulsion, but a concrete commitment to work together to vanquish these organizations. the united nations in september i called on the international

community to come together and eradicate this scourge of violent extremism and i want to thank all of you around the world for answering this call. tomorrow the state department and governments from 60 countries will focus on the steps that we can take as governments, and i'll also speak about how our nations have to remain erelentless in our fight against terrorist groups that are plotting against our countries, but we are here today because of a very specific challenge and that's countering violent extremism. something that is not just a matter of military affairs. by violent extremism, we don't just mean the terrorists who are killing innocent people. we also mean the ideologies the infrastructure of extremists, the prop beganganpropgandists and

recruiters and people who incite people to violence. there is no one profile of a violent extremism or terrorist. there is no way to predict who will become radicalized. around the world and here in the united states inexcusable acts of violence have been committed against people of different faiths by people of different faiths which is of course a betrayal of all of our faiths. it's not unique to one group or to one geography or one period of time. but we are here at this summit because of the urgent threat from groups like al qaeda and isil and this week we are focused on prevention. preventing these groups from radicalizing, inspiring, or

recruiting others to violence in the first place. i have called on governments to come to the united nations this fall with concrete steps we can take together. i want to suggest several areas where i believe we can concentrate our efforts. first, we have to confront squarely and honestly the twisted ideologies that these terrorist groups use to incite people to violence. leading up to this summit there's been a fair amount of debate in the press and among pundits about the words we use to describe and frame this challenge, so i want to be very clear about how i see it. al qaeda and isil and groups like it are desperate for legitmacy. they try to portray themselves as holy warriors of islam.

that's why isil calls itself islamic state. they propagate that the west is at war with islam. that's how they recruit to radicalize young people. we must never accept the premise that they put forward because it is a lie nor should we grant these terrorists the religious le legit legitimacies they speak and we are not at war with islam. we are at war with people who have perverted islam. just as those of us outside muslim communities need to

reject the terrorist narrative that the west and islam are in conflict or modern life and islam are in conflict, i also believe muslim communities have a responsibility as well. al qaeda and isil do draw selectively from the islamic texts. they do depend upon the misperception around the world that they speak in some fashion for people of the muslim faith, that islam is somehow inherently violent, that there is some sort of clash of civilizations. of course the terrorists do not speak for over a billion muslims who reject their hateful ideal fulful fulful ideology.

no religion is responsible for terrorism. people are responsible for violence and terrorism. and to their credit there are represented muslim clerics and scholars not just in the united states, but around the world who push back this twisted interpretation of their faith. they want to make very clear islam stands for, and we're joined by some of those leaders today. these religious leaders and scholars preach that islam calls for peace and justice and tolerance towards others, that terrorism is prohibited. that the koran says whoever kills an innocent it is as if he has killed all mankind. those voices represent over a billion people around the world. but if we are going to effectively isolate terrorists

if we're going to address the challenge of their efforts to recruit our young people if we're going to lift up the voices of tolerance and pluralism within the muslim community, then we've got to acknowledge that their job is made harder by a broader narrative that it does exist in many muslim communities around the world that suggests the west is at odds with islam in some fashion. the reality, which again many muslim leaders have spoken to is that there's a strain of thought that doesn't embrace isil's tactics, doesn't embrace violence, but does buy into the notion that the muslim world has suffered historic grievances.

sometimes that's accurate. does buy into the belief that so many ills in the middle east flows from colonialism and does buy into the fact that it has been polluted by veteranwestern values. those beliefs exist. in some communities around the world, it is widespread. it makes people especially young people who may be disaffected or alienated, more ripe for radicalization, so we have to be able to talk honestly about those issues. we've got to be much more clear about how we're rejecting certain ideas. so just as leaders like myself reject the notion that terrorists like isil represent

islam, muslim leaders need to do more to discredit the notion that there is an inherant slash in civilizations. it damages islam and muslims. [ applause ] and when all of us together are doing our part to reject the narratives of violent extremists, when all of us are doing our part to be very clear about the fact that there are certain universal precepts and values that need to be respected in this interconnected world, that's the beginnings of a

partnership. as we go forward, we need to find new ways to amplify the voices of peace and tolerance and inclusion, and we especially need to do it online. we also need to lift up the voices of those who know the hypocrisy of groups like isil firsthand, including former extremists. their words speak to us today and i know in some of the discussions these voices have been raised. i witnessed horrible crimes committed by isis. it's not a revolution or jihad. it is a slaughter. i was shocked by what i did. this isn't what we came for to kill other muslims. i'm 28. is this the only future i'm able to imagine? that's the voice of so many who were temporarily radicalized and

then saw the truth. they have warned other young people not to make the same mistakes as they did. do not run after illusions. do not be deceived. do not give up your life for nothing. we need to lift up those voices. and in all this work the greatest resource are communities themselves especially like those young people who are here today. we are joined by atal ented men and women who are pioneering new ways to reach young people. we are joined by lead rers in the private sector who want to support your efforts. i want to challenge all of us to support the efforts that unleash the talents and creativity of

young people, young muslims, not just to expose the lies of young extremists extremists, but to live up lives around the world. that can be a calling for your generation. that's the first challenge. we've got to do discredit these ideologies. we have to tackle them head-on. we can't shy away from these discussions. and too often folks are understandably sensitive about addressing some of these rude issues, but we have to talk about them honestly and clearly. [ applause ] and the reason i believe we have to do so is because i'm so confident that when the truth is out, we'll be successful. now the second challenge is we do have to address the grievances that terrorists

exploit, including economic grievances. poverty alone does not cause a person to become a terrorist. anymore than poverty alone causes somebody to be a criminal. there are billions of people in the world who live in abject poverty and are focused on what they can do to build up their own lives and never embrace violent ideologies. conversely, there are terrorists who have come from extraordinarily wealthy backgrounds like osama bin laden. when millions of people especially youth, are impoverished and have no hope for the future, when corruption inflicts daily humiliations on people, when there are no outlets by which people can express their concerns resentments fester. the risk of instability and extremeism grow.

where young people have no education, they are more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and radical ideas because it is not tested against anything else. they've got nothing to weigh. we have seen this across the middle east and north africa. terrorist groups are all too happy to step into a void. they offer salaries to their foot soldiers so they can support their families. sometimes they offer social services schools, health clinic clinics to do what local governments cannot or will not do. even while those terrorist groups end up committing even worse abuses like kidnapping and human trafficking. if we're going to prevent people from being susceptible to the false promises of extremism, than the international community

has to offer something better. the united states intends to do its part. we will keep promoting development and growth that is broadly shared so more people can provide for their families. we'll keep leading a global effort against corruption because the culture of the bribe had to be replaced by good governance that doesn't favor certain groups over others. countries have to truly invest in the education and skills and job training that our extraordinary young people need. by the way, that's boys and girls and men and women because countries will not be truly successful if half their populations are denied opportunity. [ applause ] and america will continue to forge new partnerships and entrepreneurship and innovation and science and technology. so young people from morocco to malaysia can start new businesses and create more

prosperity. just as we address economic grievances, we need to face a third challenge and that's addressing the political grievances that are exploited by terrorists. when governments oppress their people, deny human rights stifle dissent, or marginalize ethnic or religious groups or favor them, it sows the seeds of extremism and violence. it makes those communities more vulnerable to recruitment. terrorist groups claim that change can only come through violence. and if peaceful change is impossible that plays into extremist propaganda. the essential ingredient to lasting stability and progress is not less democracy. it is more democracy. it's institutions. it's institutions that uphold the rule of law and apply justice equally.

it is security forces and police that respect human rights and treat people with dignity. it is free speech in strong societies where people can assemble and advocate for peaceful change. it is freedom of religion where all people can practice without fear or intimidation. all of this is part of countering violent extremism. fourth we have to recognize that our best partners in all these efforts, the best people to help individuals from falling victim to extremist ideologies are their own communities and family members. terrorist groups like al qaeda and isil deliberately target their propaganda in the hopes of reaching and brainwashing young muslims. especially those who may be

disillusioned or wrestling with their identity. that's the truth. the high quality videos, the online magazines the use of social media, terrorist twitter accounts, it is also designed today's young people online and in cyberspace. by the way, the older people here as wise and as respected as you may be your stuff is often boring compared to what they're doing. you're not connected. as a consequence, you are not connecting. so these terrorists are a threat first and foremost to the communities that they target which means communities have to take the lead in protecting themselves and that is true here in america as it is true anywhere else. when someone starts getting radicalized, family and friends are the first to see something has changed in their

personality. teachers may notice someone becoming withdrawn. if they intervene at that moment and offer support, that may make a difference. faith leaders may notice someone is espousing violence in religion. that's a moment for intervention that allows them to think about their actions and reflect on the meaning of their faith in a way that's more consistent with peace and justice. families and friends, coworkers, neighbors, faith leaders, they want to reach out. they want to help save their loved ones and friends and prevent them from taking a wrong turn but communities don't always know the signs to look for or have the tools to intervene or know what works best, and that's where government can play a role if government is serving as a

trusted partner. and that's where we also need to be honest. i know some muslim americans have concerns about working with government particularly law enforcement. and the reluctance is rooted in the objection to certain practices where muslim americans feel they have been unfairly targeted. so in our work we have to make sure that abuses stop are not repeated that we do not stigmatize entire communities. nobody should be profiled or put under a cloud of suspicion simply because of their faith. [ applause ] engagement with communities can't be a cover for surveillance. we can't securetize our relationship with muslim americans, dealing with them solely through the prism of law

enforcement because when we do that only reenforces suspicions. makes it harder for us to build the trust that we need to work together. as part of this summit we're announcing we're going to increase our outreach to communities, including muslim americans. we're going to step up our efforts to engage with partners to more communities understand how to protect their loved ones from becoming radicalized. we have to devote more resources to these efforts. [ applause ] as government does more communities are going to have to step up as well. we need to build on the pilot programs that have been discussed at this summit already in los angeles and minneapolis and boston. these are partnerships that bring people together in the spirit of mutual respect and create more dialogue and more trust and more cooperation. if we're going to solve these issues, then the people who are

most targeted and potentially most effected muslim americans, have to have a seat at the table where they can help shape and strengthen these partnerships, so we're all working together to help communities stay safe strong, and resilient. and finally, we need to do what extremeists and terrorists hope we will not do and that is stay true to the values that define us as free and diverse societies. if extremists are pedaling the notion that western countries are hostile to muslims, then we need to show that we welcome people of all faiths. here in america islam has been woven into the fabric of our country since its founding. generations -- [ applause ] generations of muslim immigrants came here and went to work as

farmers and merchants and factory workers. helped to lay railroads and build up america. the first islamic center in new york city was founded in the 1890s. america's first mosque was in north dakota. muslim americans protect our communities as police officers and firefighters and first responders and protect our nation by serving in uniform and in our intelligence communities and in homeland security and in cemeteries across our country, including at arlington. muslim american heros rest in peace having given their lives in defense of all of us. [ applause ] and of course that's the story extremeists and terrorists don't want the world to know. muslims succeeding and thriving

in america because when that truth is known, it exposes their propaganda as the lie that it is. it's also a story that every american must never forget because it reminds us all that hatered and bigotry have no place in our country. it is not just counterproductive. it doesn't just aid terrorists. it's wrong. it's contrary to who we are. i'm thinking of a little girl named sabrina who last month sent me a valentine's day card in the shape of a heart. it was the first valentine i got. i got it from sabrina before malia and sasha and michelle gave me one, so she's 11 years

old. she's in the fifth grade. she's a young muslim american and she said in her valentine, i enjoy being an american and when she grows up she wants to be an engineer or a basketball player which are good choices. but she wrote i am worried about people hating muslims. if some muslims do bad things that doesn't mean all of them do. she asked please tell everyone that we are good people and we're just like everyone else. [ applause ] those are the words and the wisdom of a little girl growing up here in america just like my daughters are growing up here in america. we're just like everybody else. and everybody needs to remember

that during the course of this debate. as we move forward with these challenges, we all have responsibilities. we all have hard work ahead of us on this issue. we can't paper over problems and we're not going to solve this if we're always just trying to be politically correct. but we do have to remember that 11-year-old girl. that's our hope. that's our future. that's how we discredit violent ideologies by making sure her voice is lifted up. making sure she's nurtured. making sure that she's supported, and then recognizing there are little girls and boys like that all around the world.

and us helping to address economic and political grievances that can be exploited by extremists and empower local communities and us staying true to our values as a diverse and tolerant society, even when we are threatened especially when we are threatened there will be a military component to this. there are savage cruelties going on out there that have to be stopped. isil is killing muslims at a rate that is many multiples the rate that they're killing nonmuslims. everybody has a stake in stopping them and there will be an element of us just stopping them in their tracks with force. but to eliminate the soil out of

which they grew to make sure that we are giving a brighter future to everyone and a lasting sense of security then we're going to have to make it clear to all of our children including that little girl in fifth grade, that you have a place. you have a place here in america. you have a place in those countries where you live. you have a future. ultimately those are the anecdotes to violent extremism and that's work that we're going to have to do together. it will take time. this is a generational challenge, but after 238 years it should be obvious that america has overcome much bigger challenges and we'll overcome the ones that we face today. we'll stay united and committed to the ideals that have shaped

us for more than two centuries including the opportunity and justice and dignity of every single human being. thank you very much everybody. [ applause ] >> that was president obama speaking extensively and extemporaneously on countering violent extremist threats. he made clear america and the west were not at war, but he directed many of his remarks to the muslim world urging its leaders to do more speak out against the violence and to support those institutions that offer an alternative path to social and economic mobility. joining me now is the codirector of the liberty and national security program and another organization. thank you all for joining me and waiting onset for set for that.

it was a very long set of remarks. it is clear this is an issue he has perseverated a lot about. >> one thing that jumped out at me was having covered a lot of isis and watched a lot of isis propaganda material and issues it's a theme that constantly keeping coming up here in the west when we talk about poverty and all these other issues. when you watch the propaganda video that isis puts out to recruit, they don't show the poor or the poverty. what they show are the results of drone strikes, the things that are on the opposite end of foreign policy the abuses that happened at guantanamo. what is striking in that speech is that there was no discussion whatsoever about the big issues the geopolitics -- >> in so far the military was

mentioned, it was as a tool combatting isis. not a revisiting what this country has done and what the west has done in the muslim world vis-a-vis military intervention. >> a big part of the grievances are that part of the world. it is a hard look at ourselves, but we have to have that look and also address it. >> i know there's been a lot of criticism in advance of the sort of logic of targeting or speaking specifically to the muslim world and putting a lot of onus on muslim leaders to address inthis in their countries. there's always a concern about what this does to the innocence in our country and in our society. were you satisfied with how he addressed it?

>> no. so the problem is that we have had these outreach programs for years. countering violent extremism may be the phrase today, but it has been going on for the last decade. these outreach programs are used to collect information about muslim communities. they are used to collect lists of people of who the cops should be keeping an eye on. when you think about it from that perspective, it becomes very difficult for muslim communities to trust the government with these outreach programs. it is very odd. he starts out by saying there is no profile of somebody who is going to become a terrorist, but the family and friends might be able to figure out that somebody is about to become a terrorist because they might become alienated or withdrawn. do we really want schoolteachers

and social workers to report to the government teenagers that are becomeing withdrawn? >> there is no one size fits all. we this is the most recent in incarnation of a widely controverted theory. how do you enlist people in combatting extremism? >> i think the biggest problem with the cve framework is it is focused only on security and doesn't -- if the framing was shifted more on civil liberties and civil rights and open up the communities in ways that builds

trust and relationships -- if there is no set path it is a much more organic process. it is when communities feel comfortable addressing issues that they'll be able to isolate or identify these elements. >> when you outline an organic process the concern is this is happening now. i think to a lot of folks who are terrified about isis that is cold comfort. the idea that this has to be a organic process, especially this day and age. >> it has to be a community led process. each community is different. in you look at minneapolis, it is very different from l.a. you can't have a top down government dictated one size fits all approach. to the extent that communities themselves feel there is a concern about this they're concerned about what's happening to their kids then those communities will develop their

own homegrown responses to this problem, and that's really what you need. messaging is only effective if it is real right? the state department can't tell us what the messaging should be. >> that's one of the things the president said to the audience there. a lot of you old folks -- i'm paraphraseing -- aren't that exciting. isis puts out brutal horrific sensational propaganda. it is hard to imagine bureaucrats being able to combat with them. >> they will be the first to tell you they are losing the information battle. in the battlefield of ideas, they're losing that. the challenge becomes for the u.s. and its allies is how do you build that other capacity, how do you build the capacity of the voices out there. you cannot let the voices of

isis drown out the other voices of moderation. >> this is an ongoing conversation. i'm sorry we have to leave it there. thank you so much. that is all for us. "the ed show" is coming up next. good evening americans, and welcome to "the ed show," live from washington, d.c. let's get to work. tonight, the campaign against isis in its international impact. >> isis is escalating its relentless assault. >> i'm confident that we will ultimately prevail. >> the goal of isis is to conquer the world. >> we all have a stake. it's our public safety. it is our homeland security. it's our country. and later, five years after the spill, we focus in on tourism and the seafood industry. >> the fear was it was going to