right now, inside isis a 16-year-old who ran away from home to join isis, his story exclusively here. double down rudy giuliani is digging a deeper hole as he escalates his criticism of president o many bam ma. >> do you want to apologize? >> no i want to repeat it. >> health care tax glitch are you one of 800,000 americans of healthcare.gov who got the wrong tax numbers for filing. it's so cold everything seems to have gone to the pandas and rough riders one congressman wants you and your best friend to spend time on amtrak. ♪

good day, everyone i'm andrea mitchell in washington. the united states and turkey are ready to begin arming and training moderate syrian rebels under constant pressure from militants inside their war torn nation. the challenge is the same the u.s. has faced for four years, how do you decide who is moderate and whom should be trusted with american weapons? just north of syria's border with turkey new details on the front line from a teenager who chose to join isis and fled after experiencing the horrors of war. jamie, first let's first look at your incredible reporting. >> reporter: 16-year-old says he is lost and on the run. we found him in this turkish city near the border with syria. he agreed to an interview on the condition that we not show his face. >> i'm not afraid here but afraid of isis. >> reporter: he was once part of isis and didn't like it so he

escaped. it all started, he says because he wanted revenge against the regime of bashar al assad, his neighborhood was under attack isis offered food and medicine. >> they gave you a bit of hope? and you wanted to join them? >> we hoped they would become strong and fight the regime. >> reporter: at the age of 15 he joined the isis child army. isis calls its child soldiers lion cubs of the caliphate. it celebrates them in propaganda videos like this one, children are trained to use a rifle and given classes in religion and learn to hate its enemies. then they are placed into combat. his camp was attacked only two weeks after he first picked up a gun. four isis fighters were killed and he was shot in the neck. he was terrified and he missed

home. his mother heard he had been wounded and found him at the isis camp. >> what did she say to you? >> she said take care of yourself. >> reporter: he can't continue telling his story without crying. two months later, he managed to escape across the border to turkey. he now lives in hiding sleeping in a cheap hotel. >> reporter: what would you say to a young person who came up to you and said i'm thinking about joining isis? >> i will tell him my whole story. i will tell him don't do it. >> jamie that is heartbreaking and he is only one of thousands of young people who have been recruited, especially because of the impact online that isis has, their propaganda machine as the state department acknowledged in the summit this week they are running circles around the western countries in terms of what they can do online in

attracting young people. >> reporter: yes, as i know you reported, the u.s. government is trying to play catch-up now. he admits it was videos on the internet plus events on the ground that stirred him and inspired him to join. and he came of age at the very moment that the war in syria was taking a very dark turn. the moderate rebels that we hear so much about had been significantly weakened by then by the time he was coming of age. and isis was the new game in town. the moment he joined them there were only 15 or 20 isis fighters in his immediate area. and they grew up strong just as he was joining and just as he decided that this wasn't quite for him. >> jamie, thank you so much and thanks for your reporting. really stunning story. at the same time, today we learn that three east london girls, age 15 and 16 have been reported missing by their family since

last tuesday. scotland yard says there are indications that the young girls took a turkish air flight to turkey and could have gone into syria to join isis. what is the online appeal of isis, from the working group leader of the eu radicalization awareness network and he joins me now here. david phillips the former united nations and state department adviser now director of peace building and human rights at columbia university and author of the book "kurdish spring" welcome both. we heard about the three english girls. you saw jamie's interview with the young syrian boy. yesterday in talking to the former ambassador to syria, he told of a former goalie for the syrian soccer team who after being held siege in homs with his family and seeing all of the children and people dying there, joined isis even though he was

an anti-assad more moderate fighter. so how do we counteract these appeals online and events on the ground. >> one has to differentiate between the kids in the area they have no choice. isis have been very clever in forcing people to become recruiters and forcing families to send their kids to these indoctrination camps. that's a huge challenge to deal with that. from europe the coming as we heard in the report people kids from europe. it's difficult to tackle that. this is a dooms day prophecy being unfolded judgment day is coming. there has huge magnetic pull in the way they are crafting their messages. lots of recruitment of women are happening online in a very innocent way and hook them in and then they lure them in

coming down to live under this caliphate. >> does that explain copenhagen? >> maybe a little bit different. i was very close to it. i was just blocks away from it during the entire sort of siege. here you have a very violent man who was also involved in gang criminality, he was also he then became involved in extremism. therefore, there is a connectivity between gang violence and gang criminal gangs and extremism in particular parts. you have to tackle that in a very different way as well. >> david phillips how does the united states and state department with the new program counteract isis' appeal online social media? >> there's a bureau for counterterrorism and communications within the state department. it's the interagency focal point for coordinating response to isis and dealing with social media efforts -- >> do they have the tools

though? aren't they outmaned and outgunned? >> and their budget is $5 million and the director is leaving his post now that we declared social media as one of our primary tools in dealing with isis recruitment, we have to invest in this bureau. it needs to be professionally staffed. the meeting in washington had a lot of rhetoric but there's not a lot of walk to the talk. >> what do you mean by that in terms of walk to the talk? >> it was inspirational, the president believes in the powers of idea and persuasion of dialogue. it's good to get people together and talk about what we should do domestically to deal with radicalization and bring in international partners, unless flz an outcome and practical program funded and has political support, we're not going to be able to achieve our objectives. >> in terms of europe's response after paris, after copenhagen is europe serious about trying to deal with this and less

adverse to complaints about privacy and what the nsa was doing? >> i think that's a different issue in terms of how far should the surveillance do in dealing with this. i think europe is getting prepared. we are facing so many people that are going down coming back as well. we have about 5,000 europeans who are down fighting and they come back we are -- many of the things at the white house summit we're already working on it locally and city and on the neighborhood level. but we have much work to be done in relation to all of the sort of different areas of trying to work both repressively with hard measures at the same time preventably, working with families distraught when kids leave and get a sense in community, community relations and establishing trust with communities is a massive part. i think that it mirrors the

white house summit mirrors what is going on in europe. we're very happy with the fact that we are now -- they are now taking a global approach to this and there was so many countries, 60 delegations that feel we're pushing in the same direction. it's a pair dime shift and i thought it was very productive and constructive. >> good to see you again and david phillips thanks very much. and join us on wednesday at 8:00 eastern when msnbc and telemundo will present a exclusive town hall meeting with president obama. our colleague will interview the president at florida international university. you can tell us what you wants the president to talk about using the #obama townhall. now to the bitterly cold temperatures that have stopped millions of us in the tracks. dozens of cities set record lows and the deep freeze turned

niagara falls solid. this drone video was shot from the canadian side of the falls. it is even cold in miami where we find the "today" show's al roker. >> reporter: i've got to tell you, if 42 degrees is all relative. it does not compare to the minus 17 that they've gotten down to in cleveland, ohio all time record low for the month of february. there's been 64 records set overnight low records set. here in florida alone, we're looking at jacksonville miami, tallahassee, vero beach, fort meyers and tampa and melbourne tieing records. the rough part is we have cold air and we'll get a little moderation on sunday and then more cold air on monday and again wednesday into thursday. we have a big storm system in the midsection of the country that will cause massive

problems. at nashville right now, is under an ice warning through tonight. it's going to be bad news and that's going to make its way up into the northeast in the way of snow, rain and ice. we'll continue to track it andrea, the winter of our discontent continues. >> indeed it is. al roker in miami. for a completely different view how cold it is we sent nbc's peter alexander out an ice breaker off the shores of chesapeake city maryland. >> reporter: good day to you, you hear that sound. that's the sound of the u.s. coast guard carving through ice. we're picking up some speed trying to make our way through the upper chesapeake bay channel. the ice in places up to 2 feet thick. this can only get through 18 inches. if it's too thick, it will back up and ram. the ice is packed and stacked. it's a cold one out here 2 degrees when we got out at dawn. 4 degrees right now, the

windchill 18 below zero. i promised my 19-month-old that i would come home with an elsa doll, she thinks i'm on the set of frozen it feels like it. >> better you than i. rudy giuliani doubles down on his comments about president obama and likely 2016 candidates pile on. (vo) after 50 years of designing cars for crash survival, subaru has developed our most revolutionary feature yet. a car that can see trouble... ...and stop itself to avoid it. when the insurance institute for highway safety tested front crash prevention nobody beat subaru models with eyesight. not honda. not ford or any other brand. subaru eyesight. an extra set of eyes, every time you drive.

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welcome back only days after the deadline to sign up for obama care the white house says 800,000 customers received the wrong tax information. this could delay those customers from getting their tax refunds. with more now from the white house i'm joined by nbc senior correspondent chris jansing. i know you were on a call

getting briefed on this. only yesterday we had the health and human services secretary burwell on here saying that everything was going swimmingly. >> reporter: in fact that they were ahead of where they thought they might be in terms of getting people to sign up. already they have 800,000 people on the federal side another 100,000 in california who are going to have to wait to file taxes and you know what that means, could delay you getting your tax refund. there's a 1095-a form that is a form you get if you signed up for obama care and get your insurance through obamacare and gives you a tax credit. you use that in your calculation to come to your final tax number. well, somehow those calculations are off for about 20% of the people or as we said 800,000 people in 37 states that have the federal exchange. what happens now? they've already got a message those folks on the obama care.com website on their personal account they get e-mails and maybe follow-up

phone calls ut but until they get an updated correct form at the beginning of march, they need to wait to file their taxes. for people who are far ahead of where many of us are and already filed, working with the treasury department because those tax returns will have to be recalculated andrea. >> that's a nightmare. thank you very much, chris jansing. >> former mayor new york rudy juliangiuliani is adding gas to the fire about his comments about president obama not loving america. >> do you want to apologize? >> not at all, i want to repeat it. from all i can see of this president and all i've heard of him, he apologizes for america and criticized america. i do not detect in this man the same rhetoric and same language same love of america that i detected in other american presidents including democrats. >> joining me now for our daily fix, chris sill list za and

"washington post" editorial columnist, ruth marcus. welcome both. chris, has rudy giuliani gone into donald trump territory here? and is the significance the way other republicans running for the presidency or likely to the way they are reacting to all of this? >> you know i think he has marginalized himself in some real way. not just by this comment, andrea, but i think over the last yearish, he's made a number of comments that have put him there. i think part of this is a politician who is one of the best known politicians in the country who ran unsuccessfully in president in 2008 and likes the attention and limelight. when you are not in office or running for office it's harder to get that attention unless you say things that really sort of raise people's eyebrows. enter his comments of late. i would add his comments he made to maggie of the new york times in an interview on thursday

night, which sort of weirdly doubled down while also making worse talking about well barack obama has a white mother et cetera et cetera. >> in fact we have that quotation here. some people thought it was racist. i thought that was a joke since he, the president was brought up by a white mother, white grandfather and went to white schools and most of this he learned from white people. this isn't racism this is socialism or possibly anti-colonialism. >> ruth? >> oh, please. >> what is he talking about? >> i don't know what he's talking about but he's talking in a way that i think is completely inappropriate about the president and unsupported by any evidence about the president. and i think my friend chris was being a little kind to him. i'm going to be less kind. but also i think you raise the exactly correct point. the point isn't isn't what giuliani said because he marginalized himself and doubled down on it.

it's what other republicans who want to be president are thinking about running for president, how they respond to this. to me it's the new vaccines. what you say about these comments really will help define you in the public mind and what you should be saying is not appropriate. >> let me give you all a text bookcase. we alluded to this yesterday, in 2008 when john mccain faced a woman at a rally one of his supporters way saying the president was born in africa and muslim. this is the way john mccain, the republican candidate responded. >> i have read about him and he's not -- he's he's an arab. he's not -- >> no ma'am, no ma'am. he's decent family man citizen that i just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about. he's not. thank you. >> let me show you in contrast

to that what scott walker who was present at that republican fundraiser fundraiser's dinner where this all first erupted, scott walker was there, he was the chief guest, only whand date who was a guest. this is what he said the next monday on cnbc. >> the mayor can speak for himself. i'm not going to comment on what the president thinks or not. he can speak for himself as well. i can tell you i love america -- >> bobby jindal who put out a statement agreeing with giuliani, chris cillizza this is a test for whether jeb bush and other candidates how are they going to answer the question? >> with walker it felt sort of like i think a missed opportunity and i would say that for the rest of them as well. do i think rudy juliangiuliani's comments will ultimately decide this race? no. but could you very easily say, look i disagree with the direction barack obama has taken the country.

i think it's been bad for the country. i think his vision of the future of this country is different than my version of the future of this country. that said i don't doubt his love for this country in his patriot patriotism. who would disagree with that? it's like opening a pact saying that children are great and they are our future. no one is against it. i don't understand why no one did that also because i'm not sure throwing rudy giuliani under the bus is all that problematic necessarily because he's not that big a figure anymore. >> i just like to make the point quickly what john mccain did with the voter is much braver than anything you might be asking scott walker or other republican candidates to do. first of all, he had to make a decision in the moment off the cuff, second of all, if you're the big politician coming down on an individual voter you could look a little bit scary and bullyish. scott walker had time to think

about it and criticizing a peer not an individual voter who might have misspoken. he should have stepped up to the plate as should bobby jindal and should every other republican who thinks they should be president. >> and with that we're going to have to leave it there except to say happy birthday chris cillizza, you share your birthday with former prime minister gordon brown, rowihanna cindy crawford. >> charles barkley, huge. >> happy birthday chris. >> the riff between the u.s. enisrael over iran.

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turning back to foreign policy with only five weeks remaining, secretary of state john kerry is heading to geneva for another round of talks with his iranian counterpart. the possible nuclear deal with iran has caused a major rift between the white house and benjamin netanyahu. this week they took an unprecedented step and acknowledged it is no longer sharing sharing secrets of the talk with israel. >> the united states is not going to be in a position of negotiating this agreement in public and particularly when we see that there is a continued practice of cherry picking specific pieces of information and using them out of context to distort the negotiating position of the united states. joining me now is the former national security adviser to

president obama. i don't think you could have imagined as difficult as the talks were netanyahu and president obama, that the press secretary would come out and say what josh earnest said we're not sharing intelligence with israel because we don't trust them. >> i spent of time with the relationship, maybe as much as time as anyone in the u.s. government -- >> fun, wasn't it. >> i have close relationships with the israeli government and military and others and we have a close relationship with israel on a whole range of security related issues. we're getting down to the short strokes here really with respect to this potential deal with iran between the international community and iran on the nuclear file. there's pressure being put on the deal. at this point we're at a critical stage this weekend and negotiators will reconvene in vienna. secretary kerry is scheduled to meet with zarif and there are

still gaps in the negotiations. iran will have to make difficult decisions in the conduct it should take. a deal should be possible. >> yet the u.s. wants a guarantee there would be at least 12 months a year before iran could break out and create weapons, enough lead time to do something about it. as far as my reporting is that iran has not agreed to anything of that nature. so they've moved closer on the sort of shape of an agreement but there's still no agreement on restricting equipment so that we would be sure israel and other neighbors and saudis would be sure there would be at least a year's lead time. >> the united states and international community by the way, the other side of the table sitting with iran includes the permanent security council including china and russia as well as germany. insisting on a couple of things one is to ensure that each -- we have confidence that each of the

potential paths for nuclear weapon are shut off here. but then as you said if iran cheats and moves towards acquiring nuclear weapon that the international community has adequate time to do something about it. those are bottom line positions by the international community. if iran doesn't agree to them there won't be a deal and we will be back in a volatile situation where pressure campaign is re instituted. >> what about israel's prime minister agreeing to give a speech to congress without notice to the white house and deliberately misleading john kerry about it? >> i think that was a mistake by the prime minister frankly. we have a close enough relationship and there's so much other issues that they need to deal on. it was a mistake to do that and mistake by the way to prejudge the end of an ultimate negotiation, prejudge the deal. we don't know exactly where this is going to end up. we share the same goal which is

to prevent iran from acquiring nuclear weapon. the united states knows israelis have concern and president knows that any deal made twin between international community and iran can be one that's sold here at home and iran won't be able to pursue a nuclear weapon. i think it was a mistake to do that in a way that damages relationships. it's unnecessary and mistake and wouldn't have gone that way, frankly. >> tom donilon, back and ride the push to get dogs on trains. you're watching msnbc. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ great rates for great rides. geico motorcycle

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in her book, the resilience dividend judith argues yes they can. the companies and communities and individuals can get better at managing disruption and growing stronger and prosperous while doing so. i'm joined by the book's author a widely recognized leader on development and science issues and president of the rockefeller foundation. >> thank you for having me. >> you've come up with a whole new approach to disasters that a crisis is a terrible thing to waste would be a shorthand way to describe it. give us some examples where people have prospered from the way they respond to adversity? >> absolutely you mentioned katrina and this is the tenth anniversary of katrina and new orleans has really taken the opportunity to grow and adapt to revitalize itself and so they are wonderful demonstration of not wasting a crisis. they've transformed their public

education system and diversified their economy and of course they've fortified the levees with the help of the army corps of engineers and restored wet lands and marshlands but they are a completely different place and yielding the resilience dividends over and over again for these investments. >> and you identify five characteristics of resilience in the book, being aware, diverse, integrated, self-regulating and adaptive. it strikes me that adaptive may be the most important but you tell me. >> all five are critical. adaptive is essential because we have to literally bend not break and so whether we're building hard infrastructure like new bridges where we ought to build it with materials that actually could bend in wave action or in high level of wind rather than toppling over but also when we're fortifying governments or people and the same thing, we

bend not break, but self-regulating is also a critical component of this because we have to be able to delink something that goes wrong whether it's a piece of electric grid or other parts of the system so we can fail safely not catastrophically, not every one has to become a disaster. when i think about this and the message of the book is that we really have to avoid the unmanageable and manage the unavoidable and that's what building resilience allows you to do. >> one of the examples you cite in the book is how columbia has just transformed itself. you cited 91% reduction in crime, by basically building social services for the disadvantaged, for the poor into a transportation system with these giant escalators going up and down. >> gondolas like we see in ski

lifts. they tried to fix it with traditional policing and military and couldn't make a dent. they realized that part of the problem may be the geography with big hills surrounding the economic pros spert in the valley and hills filled with slums and people engage in the drug traffic or victims of the drug traffic. they built this amazing transit system. they have social services and health clinics and they literally connected the people at the top to the economic pros spert and valley and crime dropped in ten years, 91%. they are very very resilient as a result of that. >> and you had your own experience with hurricane sandy being on the commission of the civic group that looked at the lessons learned. tell me about hoboken and how they've adapted. >> hoboken is a great example of

getting resilience yens dividends. they have serious flooding even when it's not hurricanes and also had a tremendous lack of parking space and very little green recreational space. so they built or are building underground parking garages that have a dutch engineering process that allows them to serve as water overflow tanks in times of flooding and then the surface level is now green space for parks and recreation. for one investment, three bangs for the buck. that's what we see over and over again in communities and governments in businesses and in our own lives of people really yielding the resilience dividend by planning better and not allowing themselves to be drag dragged around from crisis to crisis. >> what causes a disruption to become a disaster is what we do we almost always rather

disasters are almost always human made or at least intensified by how well people have prepared for and responded to and recovered from a crisis. >> that's absolutely right. so we can do that in our own lives, not by preparing for the last crisis but by building in ourselves those five characteristics that you cited. when we do that whether we build it in ourselves personally or our government builds it in our nation our cities or whether businesses build them in their institutions we really can plan more effectively, rebound more quickly if we do have a crisis hit and then grow and adapt instead of being thrown on the ropes every time something bad happens. so all of these things are possible. >> and i heard ron klain say in his response to ebola as manager of the crisis inside the white house, he was checking in your book chapter by chapter what to do next.

the book is the resilience dividend, being strong in a world where things go wrong. up next dogs on a train, or at least there could be if one congressman has his way.

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a new investing and banking experience with personalized guidance and online tools. visit a branch, call or go online today. dogs and cats can fly on commercial planes so why not on trains? that could change if the dog owners in congress have their way. california congressman jeff den ham is promoting legislation that would allow dogs on trains. he has likely been lobbied by his own french bull dog. he joins me now from mountain view california. thank you very much. as a dog person not a cat person but dog person, why wouldn't be able to bring a dolg of certain size or carrier on a train? what is the problem with amtrak?

>> there isn't a problem. this is something they did back in the '70s, they had some challenges with it so they just canceled it all together. what we're trying to do as we pass the passenger rail reauthorization bill is make sure we've got amtrak running more like a business having greater ridership and this is an opportunity not only to allow pets to travel with their owners but a real opportunity for amtrak to actually have more money coming in. >> tell us about the pilot program, i think they tried to experiment with this. >> we did. we worked with amtrak on a pilot program in illinois. we wanted to use one segment and really see not only how many people would use this and how much new revenue it would bring in but would there be problems or challenges. we've not received complaints. we've received a great deal of letters and e-mails from that area, people that are appreciative of being able to travel with their pets. in some cases, pets are being

left alone or at home or people just making the decision that they were going to travel by car or plane because they couldn't bring their pet on a train. >> so presumably there would be some size limit on the pet? >> yes, certainly at least initially there would be a size limit. we would limit it to one car on the train. if you happen to be allergic to pet fur, you would be able to travel in a different train car. so you know we're seeing a great deal of support across the entire country on this. >> like the quiet car, presumably. what does lilly think about all of this? >> she's very excited about all of the attention she's received on this. but we're excited to travel with her and obviously we don't want to leave her at home or set up a separate boarding. we want to take the train. this is a great opportunity for us but a lot of families up and down the northeast corridor and throughout the country. >> and i can see that lilly

comes to work with you, that looks like a congressional office from the stills that we have. i also wanted to ask you, since you're out there, what you're hearing on the latest on the negotiations on the port strike in los angeles, which is creating such an economic blockage for so many people. >> yeah it's really having a devastating effect on our local economy. this was initially a california problem or west coast problem. now it's affecting our overall economy as a country. exports that we can't get out, but as well about $2 billion to or economy every single day. so we've been working in a bipartisan fashion to try to encourage the negotiations get the arbitrator moving forward quickly and now having the administration, the president actually involved hopefully we can come to a quick resolution. >> apparently they've been negotiate are for four days with labor secretary tom perez and it's still stalemated. in terms of issues, is there one

or two issues that need to be resolved to get this thing worked out? >> yeah i mean they are really down to the final negotiations on this. the big issues were resolved early on. many of our ports are become more automated so they can move goods through quicker but that created an issue with labor wanting to take over the chassises or trucks within the part. we think we have an agreement on all fronts except for a final details dealing specifically with the arbitrator. >> getting back to the amtrak dog situation, is the reauthorization held up until you resolve this? you've got a lot of leverage. >> for pets on trains we actually have our stand alone bill which we have continued to get more and more co-authors on but we put the language in the passenger rail reauthorization

bill. it's not too often you get republicans and democrats to agree on anything, let alone doing anything unanimously and that should be coming to the floor soon. jeff den ham and assist from lilly, thank you very much. speaking of four legged friends, some members of the animal kingdom are making the most of the snow and cold. check out this red panda at the cincinnati zoo. can't get enough of it. perhaps it was inspired by giant panda cub bao bao last month experiencing snow for the first time in a great way. more on the latest winter blast giving these pandas even more reason to celebrate. doers they don't worry if something's possible. they just do it. at sears optical, we're committed to bringing them eyewear that works as hard as they do. right now, buy one pair and get another free.

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right now in massachusetts, about 30 miles northwest of boston, emergency workers are on the scene of a roof collapse. this is a barn and animals, i

think horses may be trapped inside. it's unclear if the weight of the record breaking amounts of snow had anything to do with the collapse. bitter cold temperatures are shattering records across the nation. here's dylan dreyer in kastile, new york. >> reporter: this is exceptional cold across the eastern half of the united states with the siberian express. we broke records in more than 60 places today, pittsburgh at 8 degrees below zero and flint, michigan, that is their absolute coldest temperature they've ever experienced in that part of the country. but here in new york city this is a fountain that is usually running and flowing nicely in the summertime, it shoots water about five stories up and it is all frozen in place. you can see how the water is spouting out the top of it. it has taken on the name ice volcano and the water develops

into this gorgeous ice xrul pt tour. it was posted on social media and gained some attention, we had to come to see it. it's a good way to capture just how cold it is and what cold looks like. we started off the day about 8 degrees below zero here and i can promise you, that is cold dylan dreyer that is amazing. thanks for being with us. follow the show online and facebook and twitter. stay warm out there, my colleague ronan farrow joins us next. >> we've got a lot coming up. we have the head of the world food program to shed light an an overlooked impact of the isis fight. 4 million people potentially about to starve in that program runs out of money. also an interesting take on whether apple is going to get into the car market. stay tuned. in your pocket right now? i have $40 $21. could something that small make an impact on something as big as your retirement?

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here's what you need to know right now, in an unusual move pentagon officials are disclosing military fans for iraqi and american forces to retake the city of mosul as early as april. a senior official told reporters it could involve more air strikes and limited u.s. forces on the ground. iraq's second largest city has been under militant control since last summer. escape ees have shared troubling stories of a city under strict islamic world and limited food and murky water and religious min orts living in camps. what more do we know about these operations and plans for them? >> mosul, as you said iraq's second largest city did have 1.5 million people not clear how many there are now but this is both a strategic and symbolic target. the u.s. and iraqi forces would very much like toe take it back from isis.

according to a central demand official in april or may as early as april or may there could be as many as 20 to 25,000 iraqi and kurdish forces that would attempt to retake the town from some 2,000 isis fighters. now the timetable gets a little squishy actually because some of knows iraqi forces still need to be trained up and this official said look if those iraqi forces are not ready, we're going to push the timetable out. there would be a slight possibility at this point that u.s. boots on the ground forward air controllers to call in air strikes, perhaps even special operations forces could get involved in going after isis leadership targets inside of the -- of mosul. but at this point, that would still require the authority and approval of president obama. >> and jim, on the president and the