if you read one inside the obama administration books, this is the one to read, "believer", by david axelrod. hardball with chris matthews is up next. the terrorists point at our heart. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight, we americans have been threatened with a terrorist attack in our country's heartland. not baghdad or damascus or benghazi, but the mall of america in bloomington, minnesota. the threat comes from al shabab, a somali terrorist group. homeland security's jeh johnson has warned shoppers out there to be particularly careful when visiting the giant mall. and that warning is a real and present proof that the experts think this call to attack is real. deadly real. on "meet the press" secretary

johnson said people should be vigilant, and if they see something, they should say something. here he is. >> i'm sure that security at this particular mall will be enhanced in ways visible and not visible, but it also involves public vigilance and public awareness. if you see something, say something has to be more than a slogan. >> like, at this point you're not telling people not to go to the mall? >> i'm not telling people to not go to the mall. i think that there needs to be an awareness, there needs to be vigilance, and, you know, be careful. obviously. it's a new phase. we're in a new phase right now, and that involves public participation in our efforts. >> so we start tonight with this call to arms right here at home from a somali-based terror group al shabab as federal officials call for increased vigilance. you just heard it. i'm joined by michael kay, former british officer, and laith alkhouri, a senior analyst at the flashpoint global partners. gentlemen, thank you. let's go to the practicalities of being a shopper tonight as we speak, in realtime, in

minnesota. what does be vigilant mean to a regular person? you're not carrying an uzi. you're all by yourself. you're unarmed. you're in a shopping mall. what can you do in any way to protect yourself from a terrorist attack? michael kay? >> chris, the way we measure this threat assessment is capability versus intent. whilst al shabab have demonstrated they've got all the intent in the world, i would question their capability. and the reason for that -- >> what about our capability? why are you giving people advice that doesn't seem to make any sense? what is a person -- i'm going back to my question, michael. what are you supposed to do if you're a shopper? mr. and mrs. america and you're out there buying something you need for the kids or something, some shoes. how do you act vigilantly in a shopping mall? i don't know how that -- what do you do to be vigilant? >> chris, i don't think it's up to the -- i don't think it's up to the shopper to be able to sort of defeat the next incoming attack. what i think this is a reminder

is there should be the emphasis on department of homeland security and their capability versus foreign policy. department of homeland security, they should be looking at their intelligence capabilities, should be looking at the police authorities. they should be looking at immigration, making sure there are resources and funded. they should be developing relationships within the muslim community. they should be going back through their records and identifying who these lone wolves might be because if we look back to "charlie hebdo," these people were known to the authorities many years before the attacks actually happened. so this is a holistic approach that we need to take. now, going to your question, you know, vigilance is absolutely key. hezbollah used a very sophisticated network of ordinary people in south lebanon to be able to community things that they don't necessarily think are right. you need a pair of eyes and you need a cell phone. and that then gets reported through a network. we now live in a new world order and everyone has a responsibility whether you're a shopper, a policeman, part of

the security forces, to report something if you see something which is a little bit untoward. and that involves a cell phone, it involves communication. >> okay. today's state department spokesperson, jen psaki, called the al shabab video a scare tactic. let's watch. >> our view is it's propaganda. of course, we need to remain vigilant as always is the case, but the point of this video was to instill fear. >> is this a call to arms to people? it seems to me if it was meant to be a call to a sleeper cell that's ready to go into action, we wouldn't know about it. is this just a call to people who are potentially sympathetic to the al shabab call? somali-americans living up in that area? there are a lot of them. what kind of communication is this? is it an order being given or call to arms for regular people to join the fight? >> yeah, i believe it's the latter. i believe it's a call for so-called lone wolves to attack soft targets. >> to become lone wolves.

>> of course to become lone wolves. in a way, you're inciting them, giving them so-called reasons. you're urging them to do so. it's not only about malls but soft targets in general. whether schools, theaters and malls. so the idea here is to inspire those, you know, alleged or potential lone wolves to, you know, buy a gun from the gun store next door and launch an attack. you know, the difference here is that it might cause a lot more havoc in america even if it's one of two people are killed versus 67 people killed in kenya. >> what happens if nothing happens the next couple days? will it be like north korea after that movie came out and nothing happened? all of a sudden we laugh at it. are they risking merth? people saying, what a bunch of jokers? the shabab group can't do anything. they say they're going to attack the mall, nobody does anything. what happens then, laith? then back to michael. >> i don't think shabab has the operational or tactical capability to pull off sufficient an attack at this point. i think they have the communications and capability to try to inspire individuals,

especially in the somali in minnesota and other areas or to muslims in general who might adhere to their ideology. i don't think they have a sleeper cell waiting your a signal to attack. >> michael, what do you think of the chances of some kid, someone in their early 20s, that's the normal time you get to be activist as a paramilitary person saying, i wasn't going to do it until i heard this call, i guess i'm going to go blow something up. doesn't make someone move on a dime, a terrorist to be a lone wolf, just to be called to do it. >> we have to be careful not to spin ourselves up into a frenzy. take a step back and look at the realities of what we're seeing. that is most of the people that commit these atrocities as i said before are known to the authorities. "charlie hebdo," for example. disenfranchised persons do not turn overnight. it takes a long process. there are a great interview done on a canadian jihadist. that was a long process of a

number of years of going into prisons, coming out, going to mosques, meeting toxic imams in mosques and developing it over a period of time. it goes back to the capability versus intent. there might be the intent there. the capability certainly isn't there. we need to look at holistically. it is a wake-up call in terms of, you know, we've got to make sure that the dhs isn't being held ransom by the republican party, for example. when it comes to leveraging these type of things. we need to make sure the dhs is appropriately funded and manned and resourced, if not more so than what we're doing on the foreign policy side because tackling the indigenous problem where jihadists and lone wolves have american passports is equally as difficult as trying to attack it overseas. >> i think it's very important, i think we have to respond to the level of urgency that's been delivered to us by the secretary of homeland security when he -- in this case, it's a he -- goes on national television on a major sunday program and says we got to be vigilant, this is coming, i think we got to take it seriously. anyway, this comes during a

fight -- you're right on this fight, michael, a fight over funding for the department of homeland security. the president warned congress today not to let if lapse, not to let it run out of money. let's watch. >> unless congress acts, one people from now, more than 100,000 dhs employees, border patrol, port inspectors, tsa agents will show up to work without getting paid. it will have a direct impact on your economy and it will have a direct impact on america's national security. because their hard work helps to keep us safe. and as governors, you know that we can't afford to play politics with our national security. >> secretary jeh johnson of homeland security made a similar plea. let's listen to him. >> the clock is ticking. as i stand here, there's nothing from congress to fund us beyond that point. a shutdown of homeland security would have serious consequences and amount to a serious

disruption in our ability to protect the homeland. this is no way to run a government. >> well, several republicans this weekend also warned it would be a mistake to hold up funding for the department. let's watch them. >> i hope my house colleagues will understand that our best bet is to challenge this in court, that if we don't fund the department of homeland security, we'll get blamed as a party. >> i do believe in this time where we have the kind of threats that we have from all over the world, we certainly need to make sure that homeland security is fully funded. my guess is we'll figure out a way to make sure that happens this week. >> i remember the last time we shut down the whole government, this would obviously be homeland security. the last time we shut down the whole government, we turned away 600,000 visitors to our national parks here in arizona. i don't want to see that movie again. >> interesting sanity there, laith. but the simultaneity of these two events, possibility of

shutdown of homeland security at the very same time we're getting a threat in the heart of the country, in bloomington, minnesota, right on the northern border there of that state, it seems to me very bad timing politically to be doing something like this. >> i think it's absolutely bad timing. i think it's almost disturbing to think that shutting homeland security in any way would do benefit to the country or even to the world. look, what the -- so the presidential nominees will not have protection in 2016 simply because we're going to shut down department of homeland security? look, i think the department of homeland security which is in charge of immigration absolutely needs to be on top of its game because, you know, you have to sift through all of these applications for immigrants who are coming to this country in scores and, of course, some of them could potentially be dangerous. they could be potentially posing a threat to our national security at home. so shutting down dhs would be absolutely disturbing. >> i think a lot about the american culture has to do with us here. we have a hard time focusing on

events far from our shores, but we do focus very well on places like minnesota. anyway, the family of kayla mueller is speaking out for the first time in an interview with the "today" show today, her parents remembered their daughter as a caring humanitarian. this, by the way, brings it home to people like me. this young woman, how good she was as a person, a person to the world and what happened to her. let's watch her parents. >> she was loving. she was joyful. she was peaceful. >> kayla taught us so much. i think that's all i remember about kayla other than my little girl. >> we want the world to help us let kayla still use her hands to give to the world and to help the people that are suffering and especially the syrian people right now because they have been through so much. and that's where kayla's heart is right now. >> laith and michael, last thoughts on that. i tell you, when this comes home to me, it comes home when we had the war with iran, the first

gulf war, it was about humiliating our hostages but they didn't kill any. they all came home. there was a level of civility even in that mess. and saddam hussein, i don't think he had a particular fight with the united states. a real problem with that whole war. this in our face. these kinds of threats. and, of course, the killing, the beheading, the burning alive of people has gotten to me, i have to say, and i think it's gotten to the american people based upon what i've seen in terms of how people are willing to vote for a use of force resolution in a way we haven't been gotten to before. first, laith, and then michael. >> well, i think first and foremost, my heart goes out to the family of kayla mueller. it's such a tragedy, but a group like isis, which has absolutely no value for humanity or for humans generally speaking, the -- you know, isis has killed more muslims than any other -- than people from any other religion out there. so if they don't have, you know, mercy on their own people, they don't have mercy on anybody else. and i think the united states has to deal with an iron fist

when it comes to isis because this group is only expanding and it's finding acceptance among certain communities out there. and soon enough, we're going to realize that isis in 30 or 40 different countries without us realizing it. >> e-mail me a definition of an iron fist. i want to study it. really. please do that. i want to know what the iron fist looks like. michael kay, last thought on the emotional impact on this country. these terrorist groups, they want to get at our souls. >> right. one thing i wanted to point out here, chris, long before these beheadings of aide workers and journalists started to occur, the biggest humanitarian problem in contemporary history had already started to occur. millions of refugees flooding out of syria. there's paralysis at the united nations security council which just goes back to it's the people of syria that are getting hit hard here. we need to go back to the root of the problem which is assad. foreign policy in the u.s. needs to start developing relationships, whether we like

it or not, with russia because russia is key in order to get any sort of movement on security council resolutions, and iran, because the only reason assad is still in power is he's got support from russia and he's got support from iran. and they're the relationships we need to start being clever about. the nuclear conversation with iran needs to be developed to link in something to do with syria. unless we have a political roadmap as i've said a million times before, chris, then we will still see isis growing, metastasizing and infecting the rest of the world. >> thank you so much, michael kay as always, and laith alkhouri. coming up, you want to know what the fight among republicans running for president is all about? who can hate president obama the most. rudy giuliani proved it by questioning the president's love of country. is there someone in the republican party will blow the whistle on this crap? that's the right word for it. plus, politics at the oscars. "selma" didn't win best picture. john legend said the voting rights act is under attack. civil rights leader john lewis

is coming here, at this table to talk about it tonight. scott walker the republican flavor of the month for 2016 has shifted hard right, hard right on abortion and personhood. what game is he playing? he played it down when he was running for governor again last fall. now he's all the way over on the hard right. a little too nimble, i think. a little too switcheroo. finally, "let me finish" with a contest of hate, as i said, you're watching among the republican candidates for president. this is "hardball." the place for politics.

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you're a baby. >> that's human. "the wall street journal" today reported the flow of foreigners to isis hasn't diminished. according to "the journal," u.s. intelligence agency reported last week despite greater western efforts, foreign fighters are streaming into syria and iraq to join the extremists. an estimated 20,000 foreign militants there include at least 3,400 europeans, about 100 in syria believed to be from here in the u.s. which is quite disturbing. and we'll be right back after that.

welcome back to "hardball." the right, the right wing of this country, has questioned president obama's birthplace, his religion, his patriotism, and now rudolph giuliani put another notch in his belt by going after the president's love of country. as the "washington post" noted over the weekend, "he must have muted the sound whenever obama spoke." here's the president's love of country in his own words over the years.

>> i stand here knowing that my story is part of the larger american story. that i owe a debt to all of those who came before me and that in no other country on earth is my story even possible. but i also know how much i love america. so let us agree that patriotism has no party. i love this country, and so do you, and so does john mccain. i'm enormously proud of my country and its role in history in the world. it reminds you about what makes this country so great. why i love this country so much. we are surely blessed to be citizens of the greatest nation on earth. you helped the united states of america become what we are today. the greatest democratic, economic, and military force for freedom and human dignity that the world has ever known. i believe in american

exceptionalism with every fiber of my being. >> yeah, he's never said anything about loving the country. not a word out of that guy. anyway, the right on the fight, or the fight on the right still consumed with its hatred of president obama, are they? will anyone stand up for him or it or is there no limit for how hard they're pushing? eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winning columnist for the "washington post." matt schlapp is the chairperson of the political action committee known as cpac. also political director under president george w. bush. what do you make about the statements from the president? >> you did your homework. i wish you'd show that to mayor giuliani. we have a lot of disagreements. a lot of us conservatives have huge disagreements with president obama. i don't know if we have to go there. why do we have to question his patriotism? i feel like there's enough disagreement. >> let's try to, as david gregory would say, unpack it a little. giuliani is not stupid. why did he do it? >> it's a close --

>> who's he playing to? >> well, it was a closed-press event. >> who was he playing to with that line that obama doesn't love the country the way we were taught to love it? >> okay. you know what he's doing. >> tell me. >> he's playing to the worst fears that are out there in the country. also, he's speaking at an event that he thinks is closed press. >> which people? >> and president obama, they cling to their religion and their guns. sometimes when you don't think there are cameras in the room, you let it hang out there a little more and it's irresponsible. the mayor shouldn't have done it. >> that's nigh idea of a glimpse of reality. he was talking to an elite crowd in san francisco, looked down on those people. in this case, i think he was talking to a lot of second generation, maybe first-generation americans, guys with wealth. republicans -- east coast republicans tend to be that way. >> who have one, who have a very specific version of patriotism, a version of love of country. of course, we all have our different versions of love of country, but that -- you know, it -- >> i know that version because it was mine growing up. it's kate smith. god bless america.

it's not conditional. it's not about any flaws. it's i love this place and it's so simple. >> and i can say the same thing except mine's different from yours, right? >> it ought to be. >> exactly. and it has to be. but it's basically -- >> you couldn't vote. >> no, i couldn't vote. and, you know, my parents couldn't vote. >> maybe this is a -- >> it's a different experience. that's what makes america great. we're all different kinds of people. we all believe in the same thing. we all believe in the country. >> let's talk about this. here's a moment -- i think, first of all, i hope -- i've had mixed relations with john mccain. i salute what he did for our country. >> how could you not? >> how could you not? when he said to that woman, he's not an arab, i'm not going to play that game. he ought to get the kennedy library profile in courage for that. bill clinton publicly rejected, in this case the extremist wing of his party which was energized by hip hop artist sister soldier. the lyrics are important. but here's clinton.

>> you had a rap singer here last night named sister soldier. her comments before and after los angeles were filled with the kind of hatred that you do not honor today and tonight. last year, she said "you can't call me or any black person anywhere in the world a racist, we don't have the power to do to white people what white people have done to us, and even if we did, we don't have that low down dirty nature. if there are any good white people, i haven't met them? where are they?" right here in this room. that's where they are. i know she is a young person, but she has a big influence on a lot of people. and when people say that, if you took the words white and black and you reversed them, you might think david duke was giving that speech. >> boy, is that -- i didn't remember how hard it was. >> he went hard. >> that was a punch to the gut. jesse jackson was in that room. never forgot it. >> he went hard. it was -- he turned that into a

defining moment. he turned it into a political event. so i'm waiting for -- >> what was he saying? i'm not a knee-jerk lefty, i'm going to find trouble, if i see trouble on my side -- >> i'm with you, too. i want us all -- >> i know where you guys are going on this. >> you know exactly where we're going. >> i'm waiting. i'm waiting. >> whoa. whoa. >> why didn't you say something when rudy said something? >> you're going too far too fast. where is the barack obama sister soldier moment? when has he said to base of his own party in a public way, no? he hasn't done that. he has -- >> i know you guys give him a hard time for going back to the crusades. why don't you go back to this week? >> okay. >> why didn't somebody step up? could have been anybody. couple of people just took a bite on it. the new word is punted. a lot of people punted on this like scott walker. jindal jumped on it with both feet saying, yeah, yeah, pretty much. >> i read the comments of governor pence. he was straight on. >> what did he say? >> he said, this was inappropriate, we shouldn't question the president's

patriotism. period. jeb bush came out with a statement, i think -- >> no, no, no. >> i think it's fair to say that walker and jindal did take a punt. >> they're on one extreme. the other extreme would be -- >> i didn't use the word extreme. >> i heard marco rubio who was very -- >> rubio was great, yeah. >> said, you know -- now, as i recall, governor bush said, well, one shouldn't question the president's motives. >> that's right. >> doesn't quite say what he thinks those motives are. he didn't quite answer the question do you believe he -- >> okay. scott walker was the flavor. why didn't he say something? why didn't scott walker say something? everybody's loving scott walker. he's the new version of the old. >> that's right. >> he's the new establishment. here's what he said. you should ask the president what he thinks about america. he added, "i never asked him, so i don't know." what a high school answer. "i never asked him." >> his team realized it right away and called the reporter right away and said he wasn't questioning --

>> she had to clean up -- >> no, no. >> i think what he meant to say -- >> let's face it. you know this. these guys who we've been talking about are starting to run for president. they're starting to do their public campaigns and it's going to be growing up time and they're going to make mistakes and by the way, hillary clinton is making a few herself. >> you're flying all over the room here. let me just tell you something. >> it goes both ways. >> somebody once told me, a friend of mine, he's a senator now, he said the galloping horse of history rides by. you better get in that saddle. that horse is gone now. >> that's right. >> somebody could have stood up within 24 hours and said that's not my america talking like that and would have been a hero. >> which is a good point. >> i think marco rubio came the closest to that in all fairness. >> he did. a successful presidential -- >> he said he has no doubt mr. obama loves america. >> rubio came the closest. >> profile in courage to the extent that we're able to extend that award, we give it. >> i don't know if he wants it from you, chris. he's kind of doing a different thing right now. >> you can get that one from anybody.

don't knock me. >> i'm so sorry. >> i'm just kidding. sort of. you were well behaved tonight. thank you, matt. anyway, thank you, gene, as always. win a pulitzer prize. next to this guy. john legend and common won the academy award last night for best original song. here's what they said during their acceptance speech. >> we say that selma is now because the struggle for justice is right now. >> yeah. >> we know that the voting rights act that they fought for 50 years ago is being compromised right now in this country today. when we come back, civil rights icon john lewis will be here with us. and this is "hardball," the place for politics.

♪ one day when the glory comes it will be ours, it will be ours ♪

♪ oh, glory ♪ ♪ glory ♪ ♪ glory ♪ ♪ oh ♪ ♪ glory ♪ welcome back to "hardball." that was quite a moment. that was, of course, the great john legend and common performing "glory" which won best original song at the awards last night. the selma to montgomery march in 1965 which ended in violence after alabama state troopers attacked demonstrators crossing the edmund pettus bridge. while those events took place 50 years ago, john legend last night reminded viewers of the telecast last night that the fight for voting rights continues. >> we say that selma is now because the struggle for justice is right now. >> yeah. >> we know that the voting rights act that they fought for 50 years ago is being compromised right now in this country today. >> u.s. congressman john lewis of georgia led that march in

selma 50 years ago. he's now the author of a series, they're called graphic novels called "march" about the history of the civil rights struggle in this country. the second book in that series just came out last month. i've got it right here. you can have it right now. it's called "march." mr. lewis. >> yes. >> i worked on the hill, so it's always going to be mr. lewis. not even congressman lewis. >> you can call me john. >> i like honorifics. let me ask you about "selma." that guy. i wasn't close to dr. king. you were. he seemed like dr. king to me. i thought the guy was unbelievable. >> the guy, he became dr. king, he became an embodiment of the spirit of martin luther king jr. he did an unbelievable job. chris, i love the movie. i've seen it on several occasion, and i cry just -- it is so real. he make it so plain and so simple like dr. king did. i would attend dr. king's church

in atlanta from time to time when he would be preaching and his father would say, "son, make it plain, make it real." and dr. king had the ability, the capacity, to make it real. "selma," the movie, made it real. >> i love the way dr. king said it's all on the paper. >> yes. >> it's in the constitution. >> yes. >> it's in the declaration. to make it real. you're in the movie, and i thought the guy looked like you as a young guy. what did you think of the guy playing you in the movie? you were one of the heroes back then. >> i thought he did a good job. when i first met him on the set, he was wearing a trench coat, a backpack, and that's what i had on on march 7th, 1965. i wanted to say to him, boy, give me my backpack, let me have my trench coat. >> the bloody part of it when you got hit by the cop, by the troopers, did that feel like it happened? did that look like it happened? >> it did happen. it was real. i remember being hit, and the stars right here.

my legs gave out. i fell down. >> there he is. >> and i thought i was going to die. i thought i saw death. i thought it was my last nonviolent protest. >> as i mentioned, you led -- mr. lewis, you led that march in selma 50 years ago next month. we looked back in the archive and found an interview you gave that day. let's watch. >> we're marching today to dramatize to the nation and the world that hundreds of thousands of negro citizens of alabama, but particularly here in this area, denied the right to vote. we intend to march to montgomery to present to governor george c. wallace. >> you were so young, and yet you had that conviction. that assurance of the cause. >> well, martin luther king jr. and rosa parks inspired me to grow up. i first heard dr. king and rosa parks in 1955 when i was 15

years old. seemed like dr. king was saying to me, john robert lewis, you, too, can do something, you can make a contribution. and i asked my mother, my father, my grandparents, my great-grandparents why. they would say, that's the way it is, don't get in the way, don't get in trouble. dr. king inspired me to get in trouble, what i called good trouble, necessary trouble. i've been getting in trouble ever since. >> you're a hero. here we are, the book, the new book is called "march," book two. for younger people. a way to get the history. you'll have it all in your head. that's the best thing i can say about any book. a couple hours, you have it all in your head. thank you, john lewis. u.s. congressman from georgia, one of the best there ever is, ever was. up next, scott walker always played down his opposition to abortion. now he's running for president, he's done a 180 on this one. this guy's a little too tricky, i think. you're watching "hardball," a place for politics.

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welcome back to "hardball." well, as wisconsin governor scott walker rises in the 2016 presidential primary polls, and he sure is, he is starting to shift gears on the controversial issue of abortion. when governor walker was running for re-election just last year against a pro-choice woman, he struck a softer tone on the issue. he sounded compassionate for women considering an abortion. even ran this tv ad advocating to leave the final decision in these matters to a woman and her doctor. >> i'm pro-life, but there's no doubt in my mind the decision of whether or not to end a pregnancy is an agonizing one. that's why i support legislation to increase safety and to provide more information for a woman considering her options. the bill leaves the final decision to a woman and her doctor.

reasonable people can disagree on this issue. our priority is to protect the health and safety of all wisconsin citizens. >> now that walker is trying to woo christian conservatives across the country in the primaries coming up, he's underlying his pro-life bona fides and sounds quite different. when walker took the stage in front of iowa conservative activists a few weeks ago, he bragged about his staunch pro-life credentials. >> since i've been governor, we passed pro-life legislation and we've defunded planned parenthood. >> and according to "the new york times," when walker met privately with a group of iowa republicans, he highlighted his early support for a personhood amendment which defines life as beginning at conception and effectively, of course, prohibit all abortions and, in fact, some forms of birth control. joining the roundtable right now, in fact, comprising it, susan page, washington bureau chief of "usa today" which be you go on the road like i do, it's always on the door of the

hotel, no other newspaper, always "usa today" except on weekends. lauren fox, reporting with the "national journal." that's heavy. clarence page, opinion writer with the "chicago tribune." what do you make of this flipperoo? personhood means forget act it, there aren't going to be any abortions, not going to be iuds or anything. >> i don't think it's exactly a flip. >> oh, tell me how. >> it's more like a slide. it's like before he was saying, i'm pro-life, but i believe in, you know, letting a woman and doctor make the decision. now he's saying, i'm pro-life. >> wait a minute. mike dowd always said he's pro-life but it's up to the woman ultimately. that's pro-choice. if you let the woman decide and don't outlaw abortion, it's up to the woman. it isn't your religious belief. my religious beliefs are pro-life. it's what you believe the law or the constitution determines. >> well, this is what becomes

the classic republican catch 22, right? is that when you are running in a state like wisconsin, which is a more moderate state, you have to appeal to the left in order to win and some independent voters. when you are going into republican primary, all of a sudden it changes what you need to be doing, and i think he's certainly trying to get some of those evangelical voters. >> what would a conviction politician do in such a circumstance? a conviction politician? >> i think when you first -- when you first make that choice, it has to be the choice you stick with all the way, but this was the classic mitt romney problem we saw in 2012 and even before that with him when he was the governor, he was a much more moderate -- >> i was for it before i was against it. clarence being the other male on the panel here, we have a little disadvantage in the fact we don't have a direct involvement in the abortion decision. >> got that right. >> many cases it's a shared decision. >> men barge into this decision, anyway, don't we? >> i believe pro-choice means you don't outlaw it. >> right. >> and pro-life means you outlaw it. if you saw it's up to the woman, you're pro-choice. i think that adds deceptive, if he's a pro-lifer.

>> you can say charitably scott walker is in a brilliant position, both pro-choice and pro-life at the same time. he's a conviction politician when it comes to being pro-life, but the practical matter, he will be pro-choice in order to get votes. but, you know, look at ronald reagan. he was antiabortion, but what did he do besides appointing some -- >> okay. let's go back to reality here. supreme court's going to decide any change in roe v. wade if there is any. webster in pennsylvania case. it's always nuanced but it still comes down to no undue burden. you can't put undue burdens to a woman making that ultimate decision like he said in the ad. so he starts picking -- we have some older people on the supreme court now including the liberals who are the oldest. what happens if he gets in there and says i'm back to the personhood amendment scott walker? i'm not the it's up to the woman scott walker. how do you know which one you're electing? >> that's a dilemma for voters, right? >> he could solve. >> he could solve it by being clear. >> he could tell us what he is. everybody knows the aging

reality of the supreme court. who gets to pick the next one? who retires? >> the cat is out of the bag now. we know now how he feels about the personhood amendment. whether it has a chance of passing, which it doesn't. if he's that pro-life, you'd be really deceived to believe he's going to appoint a pro-choice justice. >> i think it's is one of the things we'll try to find out more during the campaign. we have a report which could be true. he hasn't stood up and proclaimed this from the mountaintops. if he's running for president as he seems to be doing, he'll have to submit himself to questions, be in debates. he'll be pressed on issues like who would you appoint to the supreme court? >> you probably know about reproductive information which a lot of men don't know. of all the eggs who don't attach to the uterine wall, are these people under the constitution this guy wants to write? are they citizens? what are they? not every fertilized egg, not every conceived egg ends up attached to the wall and becoming a person. what do you do with this information?

do you ignore it. >> i think this is where republicans, politicians in general can get into trouble here. >> science? >> this is the classic todd akin problem. we saw it. >> science shouldn't be the enemy of any politician. anyway, thank you. the roundtable is staying with us. up next, the academy awards get political last night. sure were. i was thinking patty chieski years ago saying "stop the politics." they had the politics last night. depends which side you're on whether you liked it. this is "hardball," the place for politics. there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain

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well, is kentucky still clinton country? bill clinton carried the bluegrass state in '92 and '96. hillary clinton campaigned for alison lundergan grimes last week. still, kentucky governor steve beshear says hillary clinton has a shot, a shot in kentucky. in an interview over the weekend he said "it will be tough, it won't be easy, but i think she'll have an opportunity to do that." we'll be right back.

it is our time to have wage equality once and for all, an equal rights for women in the

united states of america. >> we're back, and of course that was a powerful moment. that was patricia arquette's acceptance speech last night. a documentary filmmaker who woman talked about privacy and government surveillance. julian moore who won for "still alice" brought attention to alzheimer's. i want to dedicate this award for my fellow mexicans and the ones who live in this country that are part of the latest generation of immigrants

in this country. i hope they can be respected like the ones that came before that helped build this incredible immigrant nation. >> we're back to our round table, where are you on political speech? >> i think sometimes it can be cheesy like when marlin brando had the native american woman. i thought they were stemmed from the movies -- and the alzheimer's one. the als one. they were speaking from experiences they gained by making these movies. i thought it was kind of nice. >> you mean the god father was not about native american rights? >> i think that is a good argument. i had forgotten it, but in "a boyhood" she is a single mother getting less than she should have gotten.

>> yes, one of the things that we saw was so many of these issues are being debated and talked about on capitol hill. what is overshadowing but a bill to fund homeland security all tied up because democrats and republicans cannot agree whether or not the obama administration. >> i have a feeling they're saying this is why i'm a republican, they were so literal, so pc, the guy in his underwear, they probably said harris, this is funny, but -- >> yeah, conservatived wanted "american sniper" to win, and liberals wanted "birdman" to win. >> i wanted "boyhood." politics don't have anything to

do with your choice of movie. i remember when they used to say that hollywood votes not for the best picture, but the picture they want americans to think how it would make if money wasn't a consideration. that's why you see quality level, not the big blockbuster moneymakers. >> i think "birdman" was about an actor too. i also thought that "american sniper" was great. thank you for being here. when we return, i will finish with the contest of hate that is going on between republicans.

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they have time to talk and think and react to people. with all of the advantage of time and thought, except for marco rubio. the answer fortells us what is forcoming in the republican presidential nomination. it is a contest of who hates obama the most. not just as a political adversary, but as a man. if this continues to be the contest, count on a sad straw in cleveland next summer. they may be looking for their champion hater while most people are looking for a strong, can do leader that comes from the political middle, and has a compelling case that can tame the country where it wants to go. and yes, to less stupid, wasteful, disgusting crap fights over mickey mouse stuff that rudy has now thrown into the

arena. "all in" starts now. >> tonight on "all in." taking a page from sarah palin, scott walker refusing to answer easy questions from the main stream media. the first media fire storm of 2016. then, al shabab threatens to join. and a climate clang scientist who forgot to mention he is funded by fossil fuel.