american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. the votes are counted. who won, who lost at cpac? all right. good morning. thanks for getting up with us this first sunday in march. here's what we have ahead on today's show. the third time is a charm for kentucky senator rand paul. he won yesterday's cpac straw poll. it's the third time he did that. it wasn't necessarily a clean sweep, though. who was close behind and does it mean anything? casey hunt will join us at the big board to break it down. you are looking live at moscow where thousands are rallies for vladimir putin's

critic who was murdered in the heart of that city just this weekend. we'll have more on that for you as it develops. >> in washington all eyes will be on john boehner. that after friday night's startling defeat by members of his own party. could there be a play to remove boehner as speaker of the house as early as this week? just confirmed. february now in the books. it has been a record breaking month for the city of denver. they have gotten 22.4 inches of snow. that's the snowiest month on record. that's coming up. we begin this morning with the results of the cpac straw poll. the headline? a victory for rand paul. the third year he won this straw poll. the sub head? scott walker was right on rand paul's heels with jeb bush left

behind in the dust. paul finishing in first place with a quarter of the vote. scott walker behind hem in second place with 21%. ted cruz and ben coresarson in thirty and fourth place. in fifth place, jeb bush with 78 8.3% of the vote. to be clear, jeb bush was never expected to win, but he needs to make inroads on the right to win the gop nomination. >> in fifth place, the former governor of florida, jeb bush. >> the cpac straw poll can be an indicator of grassroots organization for and against candidates. it's it's also not the best way to

see how a race will end up. when ron paul ran for president, his hard core supporters would pack the room it never translated to broader support. we will see if anything is different for his son. rand can be added to our tally of the most recent winners of the straw poll. five victories in the last seven years, including a ron paul win in 2012 even though mitt romney trounced him in the actual race for the gop nomination. at this point in the 2008 cycle, early 2007 mitt romney was the straw poll winner back then. that's as romney was trying to position himself as the alternative to john mccain. that cpac win did help him, but mccain won the nomination in 2008. so the cpac is not an event that doesn't mean nothing, but it doesn't mean too much either. so what does matter?

everything we heard from the gop candidates over the last four days? does rand paul's win mean much? what does scott walker's second place finish do for him? and did jeb bush do well enough? i'm joined by casey hunt who was at cpac all week. thanks for getting in here and joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to get to a more specific breakdown. the headline on this rand paul wins. sub head scott walk ner second what is your take from this? >> the key overall take away is beyond that it's wide open. you had all of these other conservatives stacked up behind scott walker. you started to see them fighting with each other. this emergence of what will ultimately be a nasty republican primary. you had some of those conservatives at the bottom whether it was bobby jindal or others starting to throw darts at the front-runners. >> let's look. you have three key takeaways.

three key things we learned. the first is about jeb bush. jeb bush what's the key takeaway? >> this situation was risky for him. they knew that going in. the headline out of this he did what he needed to do. this was not his crowd. this was never going to be his crowd. he would always have to answer questions for them. he took on some of those issues that the republican base may have been concerned about. in a q & a with sean hannity. >> the simple fact is there is no plan to deport 11 million people. we should give them a path to legal status where they work where they don't receive government benefits. where they don't break the law. where they learn english. and where they make a contribution to our society. >> so as you can see there, he took that head on in a way that you can hear the cheering from the supporters that he had bussed in. that was the other way he succeeded at cpac. he packed the room with several

hundred of his own supporters and he spoke to them in a room afterwards. there were a few reporters in there as well. his message there was different than what you heard from the cpac stage. he talked about making sure the republican party was more inclusive. >> how much, when you hear the booing when the numbers were announced there was a bit of a walkout that was organized when he showed up how much resistance was there to him in the room? >> i think the walkout was overblown. there were a few protests who walked out. they yes noisy outside of the ballroom. there was a curiosity about bush. people are interested to know what he will run on. there's a high level of hostility there as well. i talked to a dozen plus cpac employees, and if you ask them what is your one word for bush moderate, liberal. scott walker the highest praise i got was awesome. >> we teased this a second ago. scott walker second place yesterday.

21%. what's the takeaway on him? >> he has sort of tested out this new speaking style where he paces back and forth on the stage with sleeves rolled up. very well received. he is running into those land mines that come with being the potential front-runner, somebody standing on the national stage. he took criticism about a remark he made in fighting against isis. >> i wand a commander in chief who will do everything in their power to make sure the threat from radical islamic terrorists do not wash up on american soil. we need a leader with that confidence. if i can take on 100,000 protesters, i can take this across the world. >> this is the second comment that has drawn intense criticism for him. instead of having a lot of republicans here swell up and defend him from what they viewed as media attacks, he took heat from others in the republican field if you want to listen to

what governor rick perry told me. >> trying to make the connection between isis and unions was a mistake. these are americans. we're talking about people in the case of isis who are beheading individuals and committing heinous crimes. this is a face of evil. to try to make the relationship between them and unions is inappropriate. >> as you hear there, a sharp remark from another member of the republican field. those are the kinds of attacks that someone like scott walker will have to weather. >> a sure sign you are doing well in the polls is when opponents come after you. and the third take away is about foreign policy. >> the most common theme was going after the president on foreign policy. we have a selection to listen to. >> isis represents the worst threat to freedom since

communism. if egypt and jordan recognize that they are at war with radical islam, isn't it about time our president proclaims the same? >> around the world, because of the obama/clinton foreign policy, our allies no longer trust us our enemies no longer fear us. >> we need to be engaged in the world, build a coalition to isolate and put isis around a noose and take them out. >> this set of attacks works as well against president obama as it does against the person they all think they will likely be running against, hillary clinton. on that point as well somebody that stood out at cpac who was maybe under the radar is carly fiorina. she said flying around the globe is not an accomplishment. she will be an interesting potential attacker against hillary clinton. this field is enormous and there

is only potentially one woman who is considered part of it. it's difficult to attack -- or it can be more difficult to attack a woman candidate, an she's sort of emerging as the person low can go after hillary clinton on foreign policy. >> i was watching the crowd reaction to carly fiorina as she went after hillary clinton, it was interesting. >> time to get some thoughts from our panel. we'll do that in a minute. first we want to look at a moment that may have clinched the straw poll for rand paul this week. >> it's time for a new way. a new set of ideas. a new leader one you can trust. one who works for you, and above all, it's time for a new president. [ chanting ]

>> thank you. thank you. >> as we look at the straw poll results again, joined at the table by msnbc contributor, jonathan capeheart, jackie kucinich from the daily beast. let's break down what happened here. rand paul did win the thing. we tend to discount these poll vblgt victories what casey hunt was saying is interesting, about the role of foreign policy and the foreign policy campaign republicans wanted to run in 2016. it seems to me in the age of asis the republican party is looking for a foreign policy message that is different from the isolationist type views of rand paul. >> politicians always look for a common enemy. it's easy to identify isis. you can go into the restaurants of south carolina and where i work and everybody knows who they are the fear is out there.

it's going to be good politics. there's a difference in the republican ideals and what the president is doing. that's low-hanging fruit. it will get back to jobs again. the price of gas. the race for money. >> is it a problem for rand paul that this is where the conversation is? >> yes. >> he was benefiting for regret over iraq. >> i want to keep cpac in the '80s. as you have just shown, not a lot of win verse gone on to be president. >> it is interesting what he's saying on the stage there versus his republican colleagues. >> i was at breakfast with a republican he said behind the scenes rand paul says i'm good at foreign policy when it comes to the hawks. i feel like he's trying to moderate and go towards the hawks. when he's in the senate it's a different story than in front of the crowds of adoring fans. >> are the hawks buying it? >> this breakfast, it was almost

a spit take when this republican said that he was looking at rand paul as someone who is a serious contender for the republican field. because he said that -- someone asked, okay what about his foreign policy. this republican looked at us and said i think he is seeing the light on that. >> one thing i wanted to bring up remember what happened in the 2012 presidential race. the frustration republicans had because the president and democrats had basically taken foreign policy away from the republican party. the fact that foreign policy is big at cpac tells me that republicans want their turf back. i'm not surprised by any of the -- what was said at cpac. >> let's talk about jeb bush. here is jeb bush in that q & a with sean hannity. >> are numerous reports that you're telling people privately

that you are a moderate but that -- >> no. >> i describe myself as a reagan constitutional conservative. how would you describe yourself in. >> i would describe myself address a practicing reform-minded conservative. that i've actually done it. >> what do you think of the reception jeb bush got there? we did hear some booing. case kasie hunt saying he did what he needed to do. >> cpac will come and go. jeb bush was a strong governor in florida. he will talk about his record. i told jackie earlier, one thing you saw out of jeb bush was organization. all the criticisms about bussing people in and t-shirts i saw two real organizations. one out of rick perry and one out of jeb bush. when you can put people in the hall and boots on the ground that speaks volumes to a guy like me. i think he did what he needed to do.

it wasn't krushlg. to matter crucial. that's professional organization. he's a good politician. he checked that box. >> it was like "survivor" and he survived. who had the best week -- scott walker, rand paul, jeb bush who had the best week? >> i think scott walker had a very -- he was very well received at cpac. the fact he came in so close second with that rand paul organization they have a very good organization at cpac. the fact he can come in second spoke volumes about what he has been able to do. scott walker and jeb bush had a good week. the clip i saw was energetic, aggressive from a performance perspective terrific. i was drawn to him. jeb bush, the clip you showed to him on talking through the boos on legal status for immigrants that was not exactly a sister soldier moment.

any time a politician goes before a group of people who don't like what he's saying and talk through the boos and are not scared to me -- >> that's the thing, if jeb bush were to get through the primary, those are things democrats will have to be prepared for. we will get to some interesting debates with the panel after this. know your numbers, and stay focused. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases with your ink plus card from chase. and with ink, i choose how to redeem my points for things like cash or travel. how's the fro-yo? just peachy...literally. ink from chase. so you can. want to know a secret? i wasn't always a redhead. you'd never know it though because it's nice'n easy color so natural looking it's clairol's #1 authentic color that's always true

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. there's a difference between a difficult question and a got you question and a question for one candidate that may be more difficult to answer because of their background versus another. >> that was scott walker in an interview a cpac on thursday days after the republican national committee made a big change to the way its presidential debates will look and sound this year announcing that hugh hewitt will be one of

the panelists for september's debate at the reagan library. he will question the candidates along with journalists from cnn. that decision is sparking debate of its own. maybe he's the perfect person to grill the candidates. after all primaries are about parties deciding for themselves who the candidates will be. maybe the questions of republican candidates should be done by republicans. the whole way we look at debates will change over the next year. in 2012 and 2008, they had a ga gazillion of them. now the republican national committee has grabbed control of the process, a limited number starting later. and people saying i'm a republican, i will question the candidates. is that a good thing? are we losing something here? >> i think it's wonderful. i was on the rnc for eight years. it was ruled with an iron fist that's a good thing.

debates matter. i will give you a statistical difference. in south carolina in the last cycle there was no specific winner seven days out. 42% of the electoral was undecided. newt gingrich gives a good myrtle beach debate. jumps back on it -- there was 42% undecided. of that about 40% were women. undecided. debates matter. everything that surrounds it matters. having control of it, i was one of the ones who started debategate. we had two in south carolina, way before anyone had a lot of them. the rnc had to get control of it. especially the way we were coming off. >> what you're saying is interesting. if people remember this newt gingrich moment in 2012 he was asked by juan williams he jumped all over juan williams. it was such a powerful moment for him because juan williams is seen by the republican universe

as a democrat as a liberal. he is beating up on the moderator and scoring political points. i wonder do you change the dynamic now if you have a republican questioning republicans? a candidate like newt can't do that. >> you do. that's good for our party. an example at that time, one was foot stamp versus paychecks to compare the parties, the second was juan williams. newt won 45 of 46 counties. >> the joke was that juan williams won south carolina. i think this is a good thing. it puts pressure on hugh hewitt. i think he will rise to the occasion. he won't pull any punches, because he is the conservative commentator on the panel, this is a good thing in terms of vetting the candidacy. it gives more legitimacy to people who are questioning the media. maybe thinking we're all liberal shills. >> he was asked about how he'll

approach it this week. hugh hewitt this week talking about how he'll handle the debates. it's a full screen. it's not sound. he's a radio host. the toughest issue in this election now for governor bush will be common core for senator paul, the size of the navy. they won't lack for training partners but questions that interest the conservative electorate not the beltway manhattan media elite. this week watching cpac you had conservatives interviewing the candidates. mostly sean hannity doing it. sean hannity got some flack for asking some very friendly questions. at the same time laura ingraham interviews chris christie, that's not pleasant. >> he got filleted if you will the thing about hugh hewitt he won't be alone. he will have other people with him. i think that if he -- he said in an interview, i believe in the bloomberg interview, he said i know where the glass jaws are. in the last debates people were

being asked about abortion. we all know where the republicans are on abortion. so there's no need to go into the gradations. because he's conservative and republican, he knows where to bore in where to really show the differences between the candidates. so, personally i'm looking forward to it. if it helps me get a better understanding of these guys beyond what i read from myself and my colleagues in washington and new york the better it will be for me it will be better for other republican electorates. and the general electorate. >> we think of debates as political debates, journalist moderator. i think there's a huge difference between primaries and general elections. >> absolutely. >> general elections v the nonpartisan moderators. >> hugh hewitt will come after a couple of them. that debate i have don't math.

the most a guy will get is 3 1/2 to 4 minutes. he will help to try to whittle the field. he will find out who is prepared. i'm like you, let the democrats have one on the left. >> the democrats are to the having any discussions. there's a coronation going on. my side is happy about that. we're getting ready to have a bloodbath. we'll circle the wagons and all shoot a while for a little while. >> says the man from south carolina. >> there's the most positive statement i've seen on a bloodbath. still ahead, scott walker is a hero on the right, but will that fight or hurt scott walker's overall white house hopes. "snl" returned last night. did one of its commercial parodies go too far? that's next.

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>> well, i'll see you at thanksgiving. >> yeah, i'll see you. >> hey, dad? >> yeah? >> thanks. >> you got it, kiddo. [ honking ] you be careful, okay? >> dad, it's just isis. >> take care of her. >> death to america. >> that was "saturday night live" last night leading our morning headlines, catching our roundup of what people are talking about today. it's the first index card i have. that was a spoof of a toyota

commercial airing during the super bowl. in the super bowl ad it was to join the army. on "saturday night live" ad did it go too far? >> it was a little much. a little much considering what's in the news now. parody is one thing, but this -- eh. >> as parody, it's good in terms of taste. i'm with jackie. eh. plus i'm not wild about that actress. any way, to make fun of isis oh, dad, it's just isis. well isis is beheading people spreading across north africa threatening pretty soon the west on the west shores. i don't think that -- >> i was not ready to laugh at that now. >> too soon. >> yeah. >> it matters, we're talking about it this morning. "saturday night live" did it last night.

it will matter in the primaries, people know who they are. >> there you go. but we're still talking about it. >> it's one of those things, when i woke up this morning, i was like really? i'm surprised. this is from "fortune" magazine. warren buffett's secret to staying young. the 84-year-old warren buffett drinks five cans of coca-cola a day, he estimates he's one quarter coke. he likes cherry coke and he enjoys utz potato chips. >> utz. >> salt and vinegar is what you should be having. he says he eats like a 6-year-old. he has lived to 84. >> i'm going to eat like a 6-year-old right now and take this. it's really gross, when you read what he eats. coke in the morning. coke in the evening. >> sugar. >> coke in the afternoon. the utz. he said he went to the actuarial

tables and saw 6-year-olds died the least. >> somewhere his dentist is like, oh. >> he would be the most wired up 6-year-old after six coca-colas in the country. >> it gives me hope. i love coca-cola. so, you know, maybe i'm to the drinking enough of it. >> next segment i will get some coke. nbc news says sick of winter. man turns joke into snow for sale business. he started a website, a man outside of boston where they have gotten like 600 inches of snow this winter. he's selling know. there is a market -- maybe ski areas want it. >> that man will be a thousandaire. he puts it in water bottles n a cooler, maybe it's still snow by the time it gets to people. >> if it's not, it's lickquid

snow, you're welcome. >> some people got it and said here's your snow. >> next week it will be pieces of the george washington bridge. >> he has to work on the refrigerate a bit. if you are living in hawaii and want some snow, call this guy up in boston. as we speak, benjamin netanyahu is on a plane on his way to the united states. how will congress meet him? we have some new numbers on that a minute ago we'll reveal those numbers. next, ted cruz got an applause for this line at cpac. >> hillary clinton embodies the corruption of washington. >> the big story that they were talking about at cpac that has a lot of people talking about the democratic frontrunner. that's next. you got that right! bam! just gotta check your bag. huh, charmin ultra strong. you're cleaner than i thought. charmin ultra strong cleans so much better it meets even his highest standards of clean. with a soft duraclean texture,

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oh yea, that's coming down let's get some rocks, man. health can change in a minute. so cvs health is changing healthcare. making it more accessible and affordable with walk-in medical care, no appointments needed and most insurance accepted. minuteclinic. another innovation from cvs health. because health is everything. on thursday the state department acknowledged that the clinton foundation failed to

follow the rules when it accept accepted $500,000 from the algerian government in 2010 for earthquake relief and efforts in haiti. officials with the foundation now say they should have sought approval from the state department before taking that money. this makes seven foreign governments in all so far that have donated millions of dollars to the clinton foundation while hillary clinton was secretary of state. the reports raise questions about potential conflicts of interest as clinton's time during secretary as state and if she eventually becomes president. and they have become fodder for republicans looking forward to 2016. >> we could have had hillary here. but we couldn't find a foreign nation to foot the bill. >> so there are real conflicts here. how will this look to voters? are there real conflicts here and how will they look to voters

if and when hillary runs for president. joining us is gosh girstein. josh, that basic question of conflicts here is this mainly an appearance issue or beyond the issue with the algerian government, are they there potential crossing of legal lines here? >> i don't think there are legal lines to be crossed. there are rules surrounding what a 501 c 3 can do legally. going forward there are real concerns about a conflict. if hillary clinton does run for president, the question of whether or not she would continue to raise money from foreign governments while running for president, that would be an extraordinary thing to do. more extraordinary than making paid speeches. i think it's something that the clinton people need to iron out a solution to before she jumps into a race. >> give us some sense, if you could, the kind of money we're talking about here which governments we're talking about, and how important is that money, all of it to the clinton

foundation and what it does? >> well they are large donations. they don't give out the exact ranges -- the exact amounts, but they give out ranges of a million to $5 million. 5 million or more. we are talking many millions of dollars, probably somewhere around 10 million, 20 million, somewhere in that area from various governments, saudi arabian government, uae, places like germany and canadian government agency. it should be said that you know this is not only the clinton foundation that has done things like this. if you look back at previous presidential library foundations, like the bush library foundation it probably won't come as a shock to people that the saudi government and top saudi royal family people have given millions of dollars to those kinds of enterprises as well. >> so that's interesting. i'll bring the panel in here. josh is getting at that there's a tension in the clinton's lives between bill clinton is

post-presidential. he has the library and the foundation. hillary clinton very much interested in still being in politics. you don't usually see that dynamic in former first familys. what do you make of this story? >> i think it's problematic. you can't recuse yourself as president when dealing with a nation. you can't do that. so, the fact that it separates her from the average american they don't -- nothing to understand. i'm not saying they are talking down but looking at these governments, some of which are not great when it comes to women's rights. that's something she has been vocal about. there is a dissidence there. >> one of the things -- the reaction to that is you're taking money from totalitarian governments, but you're using it in a way that flies in the face of what those governments do. so you take money from saudi arabia but you're pouring it into programs that educate women and girls for the health care of women and girls as the chiron

said, the donations from the algerian government went to haiti relief. it's not going directly into the clintons pockets but the foundation which has a record of doing humanitarian things for places around the world. >> there are lots of foundations that do things around the world. but they will giving it to the clinton foundation for a reason. >> we are in unchartered territory here. we have a former president, potential future president. we're in unchartered territory here. if she gets elected, it's really going to happen. >> the secretary of state she was when she took this money. once you unpack it and look at the salaries of the foundation, who these people are, it's going to be political. there is no democrat primary coming. in a republican primary that could have knocked you out already at cpac. >> but the question is what impact did those donations have on a u.s. foreign policy.

>> let's ask josh that. josh, is there -- do you know anything about that question that jonathan raised in terms of the money she rised while secretary? is there connection drawn to any actions or decisions she made as secretary? >> we know some of the governments that were there were pushing certain agendas to get on and off certain lists, to make certain inroads as part of the u.s. government. whether this was part of that or not, i think it's hard to say. generally when large people give sums of money there are multiple motivations. one thing that could be problematic going forward is the question of transparency. regardless of what happened here, you may know from our story at politico that it took us five years to get a response to our request from the state department for information about how this ethics agreement was carried out. we still don't have all the information we asked for. why did that take so long? hillary clinton was secretary of state during three years and a

few months of that five years. i think that's a question that will be hard for them to get away from. >> boy, of course that's a campaign story, too about tensions between the clintons, the clinton world and the press. my thanks to josh girstein for joining us. up next how cold was then? it was historically cold. they lived. ♪ (dad) we lived... thanks to our subaru. ♪ (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru. in small business you have to work hard, know your numbers, and stay focused. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases

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only 22 inches? i thought it snowed all the time out there? >> a lot of people think that. but the official record was 22.4 inches for february. but february is not our snowiest month in denver. march is. because we typically get the storms we're getting now the southwest storms with that upslowup up flow that crushes denver. in the heart of the season they don't typically get a lot of snow. the cold air, yeah. but not the snow. in vail, they get le, they get a lot of the snow. over the two weeks they have been getting those types of storms as well as the cold air. currently in denver, it's 11. here in vail it's 24. it's the mountains blocking the cold air from pushing westward in vail. the last couple of days here we have been getting dumped on with

snow. the last two days two feet of snow. and the winter storm warning through tuesday afternoon, we could see two, three feet of snow here in vail southwest colorado maybe four or five feet from this current weather pattern. steve? >> paul goodloe in vail appreciate that. thanks. it is deja vu all over again. republican leaders unable to get on the same page about anything. >> mitch mcconnell said exactly what he will do. you know exactly what you will get get. it will be a clean vhs funding bill. have you even had this discussion? >> when i make decisions, i'll let you know. >> maybe john bane sheer have takebane sheeroehner should have taken the question more seriously.

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in 2011 when 100,000 wisconsin residents protested governor scott walker's bill to limit public worker collective bargaining rights. walker prevailed that fight turning him into a conservative hero for taking on the unions and winning. now he's ready to deal organized labor another blow vowing to sign a bill that would make wisconsin a so-called right to work state. it would prevent unions from compelling workers who don't wish to belong to the union to pay union dues. union supporters call these dues from nonunion members fair share payments arguing that workers all benefit from the unions contracts, so all workers should contribute to the union. that legislation is likely to land on walker's desk in the next week. if he does sign it, it will make wisconsin the 25th right to work state in the country. this follows on the heels of indiana and michigan two other midwest states with union tradition and also becoming right to work states under republican governors in the last few years.

we know this will help scott walker's image on the right, but where does this leave organized labor? what is the future for unions as more states become right to work states? i'm joined by jared bernstein msnbc contributor, former chief adviser to vice president joe biden and steven moore from the heritage found dagsation. >> jared a right to work state, so what happens to organized lane ner lane labor in wisconsin. >> when you are in a right to work state and this law has not pass passed passed, it doesn't mean you have to join the union, all it means is you have to pay if you're in a bargaining union, you have to

pay for the negotiation and the enforcement of that contract. so right to work is a misnomer. it doesn't confer new rights or privileges on right to state workers, in fact it makes it illegal for unions to negotiate a contract wherein anyone covered by that contract has to contribute to its negotiation and enforcement. it's really kind of a right to freeload. if you get benefit to from a contract from which they are not benefiting, many people will. that will hurt unions which is very much the point. >> on that question steve, from a conservative standpoint you support right to work laws. is that the goal here to defang unions? >> no, it's not. we have done a lot of research on this looking at states that are right to workers haves states that are forced union. there is no question about it that a lot of the jobs in this

country have moved to the southern states that do not have forced union laws. when i was at the "wall street journal," we would talk to ceo's of companies, and they would say when we look at where to put a new factory or plant, if a state is not a right to working we don't consider that state. wisconsin wants to get into the competitiveness game. i take issue on this issue of right of association. i make the opposite case we believe in the right of association, it's a first administration amendment right. it means you have the right not to associate. if i'm a worker and don't want to join a union, why should i have to pay dues for it? >> here's the thing. you don't have to join a union in a nonwork to rigtht state. >> but there are forced union dues. >> that's the question, jared,

that he's raising. the compulsory dues if you don't want to be in the union. >> is no forced unionism. in a right to work state, if such a contract is negotiated and you're covered by that contract, so you're in that bargaining union, you have to pay dues. by the way, you don't have to pay full dues you have to pay dues that cover the negotiation and enforcement of the contract. the state that had the highest unemployment rate last year was mississippi, the state with the lowest job growth was mississippi. the state with the second lowest job growth was alaska. these are right to work states. am i saying because they are right to work states they have terrible economies? no. north dakota had a low unemployment rate and strong job growth. it's economic factors that determine this not right to work. what right to work does is diminishes the bargaining power

of workers in unions and hurts their wages. >> all right. steve moore, you have the last word. >> one of the things we discovered in wisconsin when they allowed workers to not have to pay union dues there's about an 80% drop off in the amount of dues these unions are collecting. when you give people the right to choose -- this is why poem like jared are so upset about this workers freely choose. they don't want to have the 50, 60, $80 taken out of their paycheck. they can't afford it. >> all right. thanks to both of you. appreciate that. we have another full hour of news and politics ahead. this is moscow live where thousands of russians are marching over the murder of a prominent critic of vladimir putin. we'll update you on that in the hour ahead. and how the fight in congress over homeland security funds may be putting john

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can john boehner survive. all right. thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. we're moments away from speaking with a republican member of congress who opposed house speaker john boehner this week. thousands also gathering this hour in russia to mourn boris nemtsov, the vladimir putin critic murdered this weekend. we'll have more on that in a few minutes. and also this hour benjamin netanyahu now in the air heading to washington for what will be a closely watched and possibly contentious speech to the u.s. congress. we'll talk with a house member who is planning to sit it out when netanyahu talks to his leagues. also this hour kicking off the first day of march by getting ready for march madness.

talking about a time-honored sports tradition that may be coming to an end. we begin with that battle in congress. the biggest, most surprising political story of the week the countdown clock that was reset with the last-second deal just before the weekend, now it is ticking again. 137 hours and counting before the department of homeland security runs out of money. that's this coming friday at midnight. to back off the brink between now and then house speaker john boehner is probably going to need some serious help from democrats. this is his reality after what happened on friday. the shocking rebellion of more than 50 members of his fellow -- 50 fellow republican members on friday who rejected the three-week extension of dhs funding that boehner was looking for. handing the speaker his most surprising humbling setback yet as speaker, forcing boehner to push through an emergency one-week emergency extension. that one week extension passing

on friday night after house democratic leader nancy pelosi brought democrats on board by telling them that boehner would bring a full year's extension, the so-called clean bill funding dhs. that boehner would bring that to the floor this coming week if democrats voted for it on friday night. but can boehner give democrats what they have been asking for? he can put that clean funding bill on the floor for a vote this week? can he do that and still maintain his grip on the speaker's gavel? in the four years since he was first elected speaker, boehner has continually lost ground with fellow republicans in 2013 12 conservatives withheld their votes for him in the public election for speaker of the house. at the start of this congress 25 republicans, that's a record defection, broke away. now 52 republicans defied his initial vote last friday. 55 defected on the one-week

resolution. the path boehner takes next could decide his speakership. this is what mo brooks had to say on our show yesterday. >> in my opinion, and i expressed this to a member of the house leadership we should have voted on the senate bill to fund the department of homeland security. if it passed if that was the will of the house, so be it. >> boehner's office is adamant he made no deal with democrats. but if this dhs funding drama is going to be resolved this week he will probably need them. it's a tough needle for the speaker to thread. is there a way for him to do it without risking his job? joining me from washington is the senior congressional reporter for politico. let me start with that question. democrats believed as of friday night that in voting for this one week extension of funding, they would get what they were

looking for. john boehner would put that clean bill on the floor of the house, full year of funding for dhs, no strings attached. is there an expectation that that is what boehner will do? >> there is an expectation. that's the betting on capitol hill. bane hearoehner has no other choice. he does not want to go to a shutdown. there's no good outcome for a shutdown politically or practically. the only other option is to put that clean bill on the floor. if he were to do another short-term extension, chances are you would see similar democratic rebellion. you have the 52 house republicans who probably wouldn't go along with the speaker. maybe he has to put the clean bill on the floor. but the question is who will be the republicans who will walk the plank and join democrats to support it and what will be the impact on his speakership which is tenuous right now. >> how is this -- the story with boehner for the last few years

has been it seems that before he puts something on the floor that the conservatives don't like he has to show them that he's fought as hard as he can. he's taken it as far out as he can, to buy enough benefit of doubt from them. is there more he needs to do or can do or is planning to do before putting that senate floor on the bill this week buy cover with conservatives? >> you will see a negotiation between the house and senate. say that we need to have a compromised bill the senate needs to get in on the negotiation over the two bills. you will see senate democrats block an effort to go to that conference committee and demand that the house put the clean bill on the floor. that will give a message for the speaker and for mitch mcconnell to say that democrats are blocking having a debate here blocking negotiating a compromise, that at the end of the day this is all we can do put a clean bill on the floor.

we tried. we tried to pass the house bill. democrats filibuster and hope the argument that the democrats are the ones that forced them to do this and democrats would want to shut down dhs, hope that carries the light -- carries water in the republican conference. i'm not sure it will. >> quite a drama already going to play out this week. appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> thank you, steve. joining me now is morgan griffith of virginia who alongside 50 other house republicans voted no on friday's msh measures. we also wanted to have congressman charlie dent with us this morning, but an issue at another studio prevented that. we talked to manu. he said his expectation is that john boehner at some point this week will put on the floor of the house, the so-called clean bill, a full year of funding for dhs, no immigration language

attached to it. is that your expectation of what he will try to do this week? >> that's not my expectation of what speaker boehner will try to do. the issue is not speaker boehner but the president's legal conduct where he wants to take money from one pot and put it into another pot. the focus should be on the senate, where they won't agree to a conference and where any have a rule where they have indicated in that rule that they don't care about the principles of democracy upon which this republic is founded. what you got is a situation where a minority 40 members, of the house of 100 can block any legislation that they want to. that is not what the founding fathers intended. if they want to go down in the well and argue for hour after hour after hour i have no problem with that. what they're doing now is they can put a hold on it or stop a bill from being debated by

simply objecting to it. that was never the plan. it we minds me of calhoun's theory of the tyranny of the majority in his defense of slavery. this is outrageous. the focus ought to be on the senate before your listeners start thinking you say that now before republicans are in control. i was public about this in 2012 when the democrats were in control. even though they may pay things that i may not like that's the way it should happen and not having 40 members of the legislation blocking things that go through the house. we sent them a bill that funds dhs. have that debate first. they weren't willing to do it. they used this modern cloture rule to obstruct that. >> i understand your frustration with the senate. i understand what you're looking for out of this. we have the reality that the

clock once again is ticking. we're into a week now before the shutdown. the question is if that bill did pass the senate you passed one in the house, the senate passed one as well. it would have none of the immigration language you're looking for. there is a call from a fellow congressman who voted no last week mo brooks he said he would like speaker john boehner to give members the option of voting yes or no on that senate bill. do you agree with that? do you want that senate bill to have an up or down vote in the house? >> i don't agree with that. we're bidding against ourselves in a parliamentary procedure debate. we need to go to conference. jefferson lays that out in jefferson's manual of parliamentary procedure. it's supposed to go to conference. if the senate agrees to go to conference, we have the votes, the freedom caucus offered that to the leadership, we have the votes to move forward and to go forward with a short-term cr as

long as the bill is actually in conference. >> is there a -- okay. >> they are jamgming up the processes. >> is there a circumstance, where this week if there's an attempt by the republicans in the senate to have a conference with the house, if there's an attempt f that attempt is blocked by democrats and john boehner comes to you and said we tried to get the conference we tried to get our bill through the senate we are tried public pressure, the clock is ticking, could you under those circumstances support it to keep dhs open? >> i think we need to focus on mitch mcconnell and the fact they need to use the nuclear option and let the democratic principles this country was founded on go forward. we need to see the senate do actions like we do in the house we passed them a bill. we had our debate on the floor. we sent them a bill. they couldn't bring that bill up for discussion because of their perversion of the rules that

allow the a minority to control and dominate this country. it's not right when republicans are in control or when democrats are in control. >> this is a story we had on this is a story from politico about john boehner and those around him worried about a potential coup worried about his fellow republicans getting tired of him and trying to push him out as speaker. of the no votes, no votes like yours last friday on the funding bill saying this is all aimed at boehner. they want to take boehner out. do you want to see john boehner out as speaker of the house? >> no, i don't. i think john boehner should remain as speaker. we elected him to a two-year term. while i don't agree with him and believe sometimes things are done differently, he is the speaker of the house. i will not call for his resignation at this time. but we have to move forward but be focused on the illegal acts of the president, focused on the

senate not following republican principles or democratic principles. but everybody wants to focus on some perceived notion that a to vote is an attempt to take out the speaker that was not my reason for a no vote. i disagreed. i reserve the right to vote for the way i think i'm supposed to in defense of our united states constitution. >> i respect that you did say at this time. i want to ask for clarity's sake here you made clear what you're looking for in the showdown. if the house speaker goes into a different direction, and puts that senate bill on the floor of the house, the democrats all vote for it it gets through, do you then change your assessment of his status as speaker? >> i would have to look at everything that's going on. i would have to see what circumstances are there. here's the problem. he's the speaker of the united states house. he has a lot of things that he has to get done. and no matter who is in that job somebody will be critical and disagree. that's our right as members to disagree. i will always preserve my right to disagree with the speaker or

anybody else on the floor of the house. that pg&e said it would have to be extraordinary measures to step forward and say we decided after having voted john boehner in as speaker in january that we will remove him in march. i don't see that happening. i think this is a distraction from the real issues which are the president's illegal conduct and the fact that the senate can't get anything done because they created rules that pervert the democratic principles upon which our republic is based. >> thank you very much. >> great to be with you. >> we'll talk more about this with our panel. they're coming back next. later what kind of greeting will americans give israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu when he arrives later today? we'll break down new poll numbers on that question just before his controversial speech to congress. that's ahead. ah! come on! let's hide in the attic. no. in the basement. why can't we just get in the running car? are you crazy? let's hide behind the chainsaws. smart.

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you feel that your speakership is being challenged yet again? >> no heavens. not at all. >> that was house speaker john boehner on thursday on whether or not he felt like the department of homeland security vote was putting his speakership in jeopardy. back again with us we have the panel with us. this is the story to watch this week. what will happen to john boehner? in the last segment, we had manu raju saying boehner will put this senate bill this clean funding bill what democrats are looking for, on the floor this week. this is that moment we've been looking at for a few years. when does it get to be too much more the conservatives in the republican side that have never trust thejohn boehner? >> here's the thing, if not gone

boehner, who? there is nobody else to consolidate around. that's his biggest -- >> would anyone else want it? >> that's the other thing. once you get into leadership it's weird. remember how steve skolise was a raging conservative. now he's in leadership. >> we've seen this movie so many time times before. we saw it during the debt ceiling, during the budget shutdown during the payroll tax increase bill. the speaker needs to get a bill through his conservative caucus they balk, he is embarrassed about having to pull a bill from the floor, we talk about his speakership issen endangered. i think the same thing will happen to greg sergeant he laid this out last week the series of

steps in this movie, but each time it's so harrowing to go through. >> they don't have to wait seven days. they don't have to wait until the end of the week to do this. they could do it monday tuesday, or wednesday. they won't. >> it will come thursday night. >> so how interesting we were talking with morgan griffith from virginia it's clear he's not had a change of heart on this. he's still looking at this as we're in a better position here. at what point can boehner get enough conservatives to look at this and say we need a full year of funding. >> people like skronjohn boehner, they get it. they can keep write being tshgsing about it but he does a good job.

at the end of the day, the 50 that did it back home were solid as rocks. redistricting comes in our majority is solid. it's an inside baseball deal. this is not filtering down to the regular voters. it's just washington per se. but you have to be careful. this amnesty executive order stuff is sinking in out there in the republican populous base they're looking for the correction. that's the -- that's the sweet spot he has got to hit. >> let's play this. this was chuck schumer, this was yesterday to nbc news talking about this whole showdown. this is what a top democratic senator is saying. >> that's wrong. there are lots of people who feel strongly about a whole lot of issues. you don't hold particularly the security of this country at a time like this hostage. >> he's talking about the conservative republican tactic of attaching the funding of dhs

to the immigration. the polling i've seen is when people are asked about a potential shutdown of dhs, with all the isis in the air, who would you blame for that? the polling i've seen says republicans by a 20%, 30% margin. >> they learned a wrong lesson from the government shutdown. they think there are no repercussion prss from that. during a midterm the electorate is different. this is why you hear people like charlie dent mark kirk republicans in swing districts saying stop this. they know there are repercussions. they know the electorate are different. they will suffer. >> mark kirk was saying this week publicly his goal was to put an end to this style of governing, this idea of saying this is our priority as

conservatives, so we won't let you fund x, obamacare, dhs funding over immigration. >> mitch mcconnell knows this too. he is very very smart. he knows this. >> can that dynamic be changed in the next year? >> you know? it can be changed if speaker boehner breaks the cycle. all of these crisis we've been through is because speaker boehner won't challenge his conservative base at the outset. he always waits until the 11th hour to do it instead of at the beginning to say enough of this. until speaker boehner decides to tell his caucus that we're done with this cycle, we'll keep going through this. >> let me ask two questions to each one of you. is john baner going to beson boehner going to be the speaker at the end of this week? >> yes. >> how about at start of the next congress? >> if he decides to run again.

if not boehner, who. no one has cole esalescecoalesced. there is no replacement yet. until there's a challenger, i will say yes. >> end of this week? >> yes. >> end of this week? >> yes and yes. >> yep. >> okay. stick around with john boehner, that show will last for a while, i guess. the panel will be back later in the hour. still ahead, the real march madness, when is it appropriate for college basketball fans to storm the court and how to get things from getting out of control like they did this week? and next two days away from one of the most anticipated addresses to congress. we will talk to one member of congress who will not be at benjamin netanyahu's speech this week.

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pro it'spro pro israel lobbies is preparing to hold a lobmeeting. it comes as benjamin netanyahu is set to hold an address on tuesday. house speaker john boehner invited netanyahu to speak without consulting with president obama. it is a move that has infuriated the white house which calls the speech politically motivated. netanyahu's decision day is two weeks away in israel. the white house announced on thursday that samantha power and susan rice will also peek at the apec conference. that came two days after rice said this about netanyahu's visit. >> on both sides, there has now been injected a degree of partisanship, which is not only unfortunate. i think it is distrucktive of the fabric of the relationship. >> netanyahu will hold a bipartisan meeting with mitch mcconnell and harry reid on tuesday after turning down an invitation to meet privately with senate democrats claiming

he did not want his speech to be perceived as political or partisan in nature. some of those senators won't be there on tuesday to hear netanyahu peek. they and some of their colleagues in the house are boycotting the speech. congressman john yarmuth is one of those, and also joining us is david frum. you're not going be at the speech why? >> i think there's a real danger in this speech. there will be a perception created because all of the apec people in town will be in the gallery. everybody will stand up. the last time he spoke he got 29 standing ovations. there will be a perception created that there is a unanimous support in congress for his position as opposed to the united states foreign policy. i think that's very damaging because if we do get an agreement on the iran nuclear situation, then it's going to be hard to generate broad

bipartisan nationwide support for that position if they think congress is on the other side. i think it's dangerous. clearly in 2011 when netanyahu spoke, later in 2013 in his campaign he used footage from that speech to -- in his campaign spots. so this is purely political. speaker boehner made a huge mistake. he misrepresented congress when he made the invitation because the invitation letter says it was a bipartisan leadership inviting him. that's not true. nancy pelosi and steny hoyer had no knowledge of it. this was a big mistake. boehner made a huge mistake. i don't want to be a part of it. i don't want to be sitting there thinking i have to stand up because everybody else is standing up it looks as if i'm disrespectful if i sit down. all those games that are played during the state of the union will be played again on tuesday.

>> i want to put in new poll numbers, this is the nbc "wall street journal" poll. one question should republicans have invited netanyahu to address congress? 48% saying no. 30% saying yes. also measuring benjamin netanyahu's popularity in the united states. you can see, he's doing pretty well. 30% positive. 17% negative. that's up from when this question was asked last year at 24% and 15%. when i look at those two questions, i say netanyahu has a good thing going here in the united states with the public. does this speech and the way it's coming across does that risk that reputation? that image? >> this speech is not about prime minister netanyahu. president obama is about to conclude the most important nuclear weapons agreement since the end of the cold war. he will not submit that agreement to congress. he will not share with congress the details of what is in it. in order to reach this agreement he abandoned every one of his own stated foreign policy goals at the beginning of this process.

this is an abject and dismal failure that he is about to attempt to conclude. many states are threatened by this treaty. israel is one of them. congress invited the prime minister to speak about that in much the same way that congress invited a threatened foreign ally. when representativerepresentative -- congress has passed powerful sanctions resolutions by votes of 100-0 in the senate. that's where they the congress is they invited netanyahu to speak not for netanyahu but to speak for them and express their anger about this agreement and that congress is excluded from a treaty. >> there have been democrats certainly, robert menendez from new jersey who have been critical. at the same time menendez backing off and saying he would

wait until the negotiations played out march 24th before he pushed forward legislatively. let me ask you about the point david frum is raising. the administration here is taking a different approach to aran than we've seen in the past. that idea that we ought to hear from the leader of one of our allies in the middle east, israel, how they're reacting to this. is there a point there? >> first, we know how prime minister benjamin netanyahu feels. he expressed himself many many times. he will do the same thing about apec tomorrow. he doesn't need to come to congress to do that. speaker boehner, when he was talking about the invitation said explicitly he was inviting president netanyahu here because he wasn't going to sit back and do nothing. he invited him specifically to try to sabotage the talks that the president and the administration are now engaged in with by the way, five other world powers. there's no question that iran poses a threat a nuclear

weaponized iran poses a threat not just to israel but the entire world. that's why the five plus one are engaged in the process. this is not just the united states but the world doing what it can, exercising its power, economic and otherwise, to head off a significant threat. whether a deal would get a ma majority in congress or not, we don't know. >> president obama knows it won't. that's why he won't submit the agreement to congress. >> this -- >> if this agreement goes to the senate -- >> hold on. >> because he has a republican -- >> go ahead, david, then i'll hear from the congressman. >> if this agreement goes to the senate, i suspect it would fail maybe not by 100-0 but by overwhelm majorities. 80/15. overwhelmingly defeated. the president knows that that's high he won't submit it to congress or share with congress what's in it he abandoned his own stated goals that he said no

enrichment. 6500 centrifuges probably. he has said it must be permanent. actually iran gets permanent sanctions relief in exchange for ten years of promises to be good. and he backed i way from controls of the iranian missile program. he will leave behind all the predicates for a nuclear weaponized state, iran and congress is horrified. that's why congress invited prime minister netanyahu. >> congressman, in terms of the agreement they're trying to hammer out with iran is there a way to turn congress around on it for the administration? >> i'm not sure. the president is not very well regarded in the republican congress. that's the thing we're been facing for over six years now. we have a republican congress that will actually abandon its own principles and policies once president obama adopts them. yeah. i think there probably would be resistance in the congress and also the republican majority in congress is trying to -- make partisan the relationship between israel and the united

states, which has never happened before. that's one of the tragedies of this entire incident is there's never been a partisan aspect to our support for israel. and they turned it into one. so you know, i'm sure, yes, a republican -- this republican majority in congress would probably resist the deal. but as we review the deal and we've been briefed on it a number of times, the parameters of the deal what it looks like the question is the only option to this deal if we get one, is military action. and i don't think -- >> that the not true. >> i don't think the military want that and the israelis want that. >> that's not true. the president has played a big part here. this president has struck away from many years of consensus in congress, many years of the foreign policy of his own party. it's irritating when president obama says the only alternative, it's an old game do what i say or global thermonuclear war.

the alternatives are the reinforcement of sanctions. sanctions that were imposed in the beginning of 2012 which he opposed then took credit for them after they passed 100-0. those sanctions worked. similar sanctions will work in the future and we'll get a deal. this is simply if you give iran what they want they'll sign. along the way they may ask for a few more things. that's what's been happening here. at each point the administration says help yourselves. >> my thanks to john yarmuth from kentucky, democrat. and david frum. the elections in israel march 17th. still ahead, almost one year later the latest in the search for flight mh370. remember that?

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o'malley o'malley now the former maryland govrernor, says triangulation is not a strategy that will move america forward. history celebrates from profiles in courage not profiles in convenience. >> oh. >> burn. >> he has to do something to differentiate the presumed person he will be running against, hillary clinton. i'm not surprised by it. but he was an ally of hillary clinton. >> i don't know. triangulation, that's the critique of clinton in 1995 or something. does that word mean anything to people? >> i guess if mark o'malley says something and no one listens, does it matter? >> we found it. >> there you go. >> we have the associated press, headline today, no plane, many

discoveries in year-long search for 3706789 a. a year ago this month the plane disappeared. it's yielded nothing so far, but we have gotten new underwater maps plans for better plane tracking, but no plane. what a -- i'm terrified of flying, this is one of those episodes that drives it home for me. >> it was one of several planes that went down. it is still mind boggling that the plane was not found. >> here's the positive. the positive thing that comes out of any disaster advances in technology advances in ensuring that other people do not die do not lose their lives because of the same thing. so all of the things they discovered, new floor mapping of the ocean floor, new surveillance of airplanes, other things like that are going to help keep us safe hopefully. >> but the weird thing about

this, too, it's not just -- the plane disappeared, but was it an engine thing? did the pilot do something malicious? the basic thing of why it went down in the first place, we don't know. still ahead, one of my favorite topics college sports. we'll show what happened on a basketball court this week that is leading to many calls for an end to a time-honored tradition. that's coming up. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases with your ink plus card from chase. and with ink, i choose how to redeem my points for things like cash or travel. how's the fro-yo? just peachy...literally. ink from chase. so you can. [ hoof beats ] i wish... please, please, please, please, please. [ male announcer ] the wish we wish above all...is health. so we quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. expanded minuteclinic

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to nbc news yesterday. >> putin is a bully, a nasty man, and a bully. until you show him strength he will keep doing terrible things like this. he's hurting the russian people. their standard of living goes down. but it doesn't matter, he just -- he's a bully. >> stay with msnbc and msnbc.com for newuew developments on this march and nemtsov's murder.

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one of the best things about college sports is the raw energy and enthusiasm of the crowd. school spirit that when the old state u. pulls off a big, dramatic, unexpected victory turns into scenes like this. >> time will run out on the jayhawks. bruce self comes to congratulate bruce weber. and here they come, folks. here they come. a manhattan storm. >> storming the court, as it's called, is a time honored

tradition in college sports. but as these scenes from monday night show the celebrations can all too easily turn ugly and dangerous. these are fans of the kansas state wild cattle just after their team stunned mighty kansas, their hated cross state rival, images that produced outrage, apologies and cries for reform. last night k state was back in action pulling another shocking upset this time over 12 ranked iowa state. this time there was extra security in place and no one ran on the court. is that a sign of progress or just another sign that the fun and spirit is being sucked out of cheering for a team at the college level. after all colleges storm the court or the football field after big wins all the time. usually they do it without incidents, just a fun celebration of victory but sometimes there are incidents. those are incidents that lead for calls to reform the tradition or that it just be scrapped. joining the panel now is someone who knows a thing about this espn college basketball analyst,

former virginia tech basketball coach seth greenberg. he is no stranger to court storming. when his team was beaten by duke, duke fans stormed the court. you see a picture of it there. seth, i apologize for what might be a painful memory for you. i looked at that and said they're duke fans they should never storm the court, should they? >> i have rules of court storming. i'm the self-appointed commissioner of court storming. there are certain teams, you cannot storm the court. duke carolina kentucky ucla you're not allowed to storm the court. you're supposed to win. there are certain teams that can and can't. like if you chant out "overrated," if you beat a team and you're beating "overrated" why would you storm the court? if you're not sold out, why would you storm the court, it's not that important to your student body, to your fans. so there are sml rules but i've added a new rule. my newest rule is it's the home team's responsibility to make sure that the visiting team the

coaches and the officials get off the court safely and that was the problem at kansas state. they were ill equipped to help the kansas players get off the court, yet that's a rivalry game, which sets up an opportunity for a court storm and it was unacceptable. it seemed to me like the security was part of the court storm as opposed to doing their job and helping the team get off the court. >> you know what it's like more than we do standing on the sideline and there's 15,000 people in a -- it's a buzzer beater. no one sees it coming it's a huge upset. this frenzy sets off. is there an amount of security that can control that? >> yeah there is an amount of security if you plan ahead. i mean there are certain teams that -- if kansas plays kansas state and kansas state wins the basketball game, there's going to be a court storming. the year before they had the exact same situation. what do you do? you plan ahead. no different than a coach with a game plan on how to win a certain game. an administration and operations

people on the university's campus needs to have a plan and not just have those yellow jacketed security people but have some police officers there. have two police officers behind the visiting team's bench. those things need to be taken care of. >> let me bring the panel in on this. anyone here ever stormed the court court? >> yes, yes, yes. took the net down at the university of south carolina game when the fight broke out between lefty gazelle's team and frank mcguire's team. that was a great fight. the point is that it sells tickets, it gets applications tolto schools, it's excitement it's enthusiasm. my brother gave me the price and figures and dangers of it. move on from that to the goal posts taken down. now they retract themselves. it is certainly dangerous. the s.e.c. has huge penalties for it now. they addressed it last year. the coach is right, a very dangerous situation. let me tell you, the people in south carolina when south

carolina got the 21 loss streak ended and took the goal posts down against new mexico state, they're still hanging in the bars. i had people say it was the finest time in their life. the applications to the university came in the following week they beat georgia and took them down again. >> i can't imagine students after a big win not going onto the field. >> that's like an orderly -- >> but there is a fine balance between rushing the field -- i'm a football fan so rushing the field and making it safe. and you just -- schools need to strike that balance. >> i think it's safe to say i've never rushed a field nor will i ever rush a field. but the idea of police officers being on the court to prevent people from rushing the field i think is a bit much. i mean as a person who might watch sports on occasion seeing people celebrate by rushing onto the field to celebrate their team that's a fun thing to see. that was a little disturbing to see how many people flooded the

field like that. >> let me ask seth about that. tell us maybe, you're standing on the sideline as this plays out around you. what's that like? >> actually when we beat duke our students rushed the court. it can be overwhelming but our people did a good job of security. but imagine a police officer, you know protecting the coaches and the players. wait a second you ever watch a football game? at the ending of the football game when those two coaches shake hands, who's standing right next to that football coach? >> a trooper. >> a trooper with a chin strap and a hat. that guy never smiles. but you know what the reality is you put two police officers by the bench. actually most institutions do that just for security reasons during the course of the game. but it's a very simple procedure. now, there is liability and it's a tremendous liability, but when you talk about the s.e.c., there is a fine system. i think it starts five goes to 25 and 50. now, you're an s.e.c. football program. $50,000 pays your boosters for a

pregame meal at a bowl game. $50,000 is not a lot of money to an s.e.c. football program. if you want to make it a fine let's make it a significant fine. it is a liability. it is something that needs to be discussed. but as coaches, as administrators institutions you want ownership from your fans. you want ownership from your alumni. you want to make them feel like they're part of your team because eventually those students are going to be the donors you're going to be hitting up for donations. you want them to have that one moment -- >> we've got to cut it there and storm the court here on the upset. but anyway thank you to espn seth greenberg. appreciate it. thanks to our panel. thanks for joining us. melissa harris-perry up next. you can call me shallow... but, i have a wandering eye. i mean, come on. national gives me the control to choose any car in the aisle i want. i could choose you... or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment.

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