i interviewed lots of people in my life to see if they remembered it the same as i did or what they had to contribute. one of the people was paul mccartney. i told him what it was like working with jerry and this discussion about whether you had to be messed up to be a genius. and going there and going to the dark places. and he said, i had that same experience with john. of course he did. >> with john lennon? >> yes. >> i did this thing, which is either genius or stupid i'll sit and make metrics about people's careers. one of them was i charted out bob dylan's career based on the "y" axis was chart position and the "x" axis was years and releases. it goes like this. it's a great image. we should all hope to be like

this. >> we're doing this series on genius -- >> wait a second, i'm in it? no one's ever said that before. i'm just going to accept it. probably won't happen again. >> these days you might think of a genius as just a brilliant person. but that wasn't always so. the word comes from latin, a spirit which watches over each person. genius wasn't something you got to be. it was something you got to hold, even if for a moment. maybe that's what einstein meant when he famously said everyone's a genius. i spoke with three creative forces about how the concept of genius has changed in their fields. the first has been called the father of the modern buddy comedy, judd apatow the producer director and writer behind hits like the 40-year-old virgin bridesmaids and the upcoming movie train wreck. we're doing this series on genius -- >> wait a second i'm in it? >> yes.

your face on every promo. we won't comment about your genius -- are you a genius judd apatow? >> no one's ever said that before. i'm just going to accept it. probably won't happen again. >> other than you, who do you consider to be a genius? >> a genius well, james brooks is a genius. if you look at somebody who from the "mary tyler moore show" to "the simpsons" and "terms of endearment" and so many times he's done something stunningly great and thoughtful and insightful, he's one of the people i look up to in that way. i talk about people like gary shandling who taught me everything i knew about writing. >> when you were a kid in suburban new york, was that the ambition, to bring a truthfulness or naturalism to it? >> i had no ambition at all. i was just obsessed with the marks brothers and george carlin

and i loved stand-up. i would sit at home and watch michael keaton and leno do stand-up on the mike douglas show. and i thought, that's a good job. whatever they're doing this little world felt way better than the room i was sitting in. so i wanted to be a mcomic. i never thought about making movies. but i just thought -- i remember i saw the farting scene in "blazing saddles" and i thought, that's a job. someone got paid to make that. >> and you said i want to do this? >> i want to do that job. if that's work i'd like to sign up. >> another childhood hero that you've cited a bill cosby. you've come out quite publicly about him. why did you come out so publicly about that? >> i have some personal connections to it in terms of victims which make me go oh, this is completely true.

he just did it. i feel like it's a little bit of a betrayal of our community. so it's like having someone like in your world be the exact opposite of what you thought they were and just due to how good they were at it he doesn't really get caught. and he kind of walks around like nothing ever happened. and it feels deeply offensive. and people say, where's the evidence? and i said isn't 30 people saying, it happened to me evidence, is that evidence of something happening? i don't know, i'm just kind of bothered by the whole thing. and if a lot of people spoke up i probably wouldn't. i think it's the silence -- >> but you see the comedy world protecting its powerful own? >> i see show business, but even politics. i don't even see powerful feminists standing up and saying cosby's a bad guy. i find it strange -- i know it

has a lot to do with race politics he's an important symbol for accomplishment. and people don't want to tear that down. but there is a line after 20 rape accusations, you start saying, maybe he's not the best symbol. maybe we don't need him. we have other people we can look up to. >> there's also plenty of noise out there that you must see yourself. do you look at your "@"responses on twitter? >> i look at them. and i'll tweet back to people who say heinous things. i don't think people at home typing think you will engage with them. >> how does all that feedback change what you do creatively? does it seep in or change anything? >> that's a good question. what's getting in my head from reading all of that? i'm always impressed with lena dunham. she'll read a fair amount of it. some people don't get it and attack her personally.

but when we go in the writers' room i feel like she's made zero adjustments for all the voices. she's just going to follow her heart and do what she thinks is write, which is an incredibly and hard thing to do. >> so tell me about your early forays into tv. "freaks and geeks," ahead of its time, do you think? >> i don't know. paul has this incredible idea which is, let's make a show about high school that's real that talks about the misfits and the nerds and the potheads. i like writing about the friend of the good-looking guy or the people on the side. the people that usually don't get a movie is what i find interesting and what paul found interesting. >> when you say you like to produce works about the guy on the side the guy usually doesn't get the movie, is that because that was you? >> yeah i always felt that way. i was much younger than the other kids and i was terrible at sports. and where i went to school

every day all you did is play sports. during the class, during lunch. so if you were terrible at it, it was like this sort of rolling humiliation for 13 straight years. >> and there's a lot of that in the focus of your work. >> yes. there's a lot of rolling humiliation. and you try to figure out how you're going to survive it. and there's a lot of characters that i try to show who i think are special but other people don't notice it. >> we just saw the news that nbc passed tina fey's new comedy to netflix. do you think there's a dwindling space in network for sophisticated, forward-looking comedy? >> one issue that no one ever talks about is a half hour is like 21 minutes with all the commercials at this point, 21 or 22 minutes. so it's very little time to tell a story. even if you have a half hour on hbo, we're doing 29 1/2-minute stories, almost a third longer. and then i think people get

conditioned to not want the shows to be censored. they want them to be funny, they want them to go far. then when you go back to network tv and you feel the restrictions, maybe there's some people like i'm so happy this is censored. but for most people i think they would rather it be as good as it can be and they feel, i can handle it, you don't have to soften every curse word or hide every sexual situation. so they're leaving network television. when you do a network tv show the thing that happens, if the first week it doesn't get good ratings, the network's like you need to add a hot girl or do this or that. >> and then you're gone? >> usually you're gone anyway. but you're making tv with a gun to your head. that whole dynamic of week-to-week ratings, motivating the networks to interfere is a terrible model where if you get a show on netflix and they order ten episodes you just put the

ten up, see what people think. if people don't dig it they just won't give you another ten. but they're not like bothering you while you're making the ten. you get to finish your thought. >> how do you square your being so identified with the bromance and also someone who brings up female talent and prioritized female characters? >> i love writing for women. the first job i ever had, i wrote roseanne barr's stand-up act with her. but sometimes things don't get picked up, movies don't get made. so people don't know what you're trying to do. so suddenly if you hit a little vein where people go oh he does the bromances, it's mainly because i got those made at that moment. all those stories about like are we friends, are we not friends, what does this mean? and i like the female variations of it just as much when we did "bridesmaids". >> this is some classy

[ muted ] -- >> jesus, megan. >> i won't apologize. i'm not even confident of which end that came out of. >> when you do male pieces anything you do differently? >> not really i think some of it is about the female characters as much as -- i'm trying to show that men are really immature especially when they're young, like 17 to 25. so some of it is really sexist and horrible because that's where they start. and by the end of the movie, they figure out that that's an awful way to be. >> right. >> and it is funny to be horrible. comedy is not funny when people act in a normal way. a self-actualized smart person is devoid of humor. >> never found such a person. >> exactly. >> and in your own life how did you come to this relationship with leslie where she's in the movies again and again? what's the hardest part of that? >> the hardest part of it is just that i want it to work.

leslie leslie, in ways that people don't see, she's really my partner on what should the movie be so when i'm writing "knocked up" it's not me in a room alone writing it and handing it to leslie. from first thought it's, what do you think after this? and we're having a conversation for two years and she said, you should do a scene where they try to have sex and it's weird because she's pregnant. >> do you feel feel strange with your family being on set? >> absolutely. >> who's he? >> i'm ben stone. >> he's my boyfriend. >> that's nice. >> i never met him before. >> so the level of stress for me personally is crazy high. >> did you worry on a personal level about exposing your kids putting them out there that

much? >> here's the thing. that wasn't the issue, like my kids being on tv or anything like that. the real issue is when you have young kids and you expose them to really creative funny, awesome people in a work situation, the rest of their lives are a little weird because if you spend all day long hanging out with seth rogen, your friends don't seem as funny. you're kind of showing them a special world and then they have to like go back to school and it's different. and maybe it's not quite as engaging. >> so if you have to give one definition, is it that is it sticking to your guns creatively -- >> a genius? >> yeah. >> here's the thing. i wasn't breastfed as a kid. so i'm not a genius. i'm not even that smart. that's why everyone's like stoned and doesn't say big words in my movies because i can't

even write like a smart, witty character -- >> if only you'd had the breastfeeding. >> yes. my mom said, you don't need it. she tried to discourage us from doing it with our kids. she said, you're fine. but i'm not fine. so i'm limited. so i might be the anti-genius. but i've hit a little pocket of being able to write people who have like 96 iqs. >> you don't actually feel intellectually limited? >> i actually do. >> do you really? >> absolutely. i can't remember things really well. >> but you've made a dreercareer off of your mind. >> i'm emotionally intuitive. but i actually can't really understand most of what everyone is talking about. >> words of wisdom from genius john apatow. >> thank you.

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when you think of the word genius, who comes to mind?

maybe a writer like shakespeare a composer like mozart, or a leader like napoleon. chances are, your list includes more men than women. a recent steady shows that maybe leaders can't be geniuses. when we come back, we'll hear about how carole king defied stereotypes even early on. >> the late '40s and '50s women were different kinds of role models. i was very lucky that i had parents who encouraged me to do everything. i was kind of a tomboy. so i hung out with boys. i played with boys and never had a sense of limitations because of my gender. but there were still roles we were expected to fill. i was supposed to grow up and marry a doctor. >> a conversation with carole king right after this. just show them this - the american

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carole king has been a cultural force for half a century. four grammys, more than 100 billboard hits a career of songs that have helped shape american life and redefine the role of women in music. and now, her life itself is a broadway phenomenon beautiful, the carole king musical regularly rakes in more than a million dollars a week in ticket sales. she told me why she thinks her story is connecting with so many people. ♪ and it's too late baby ♪ ♪ it's too late ♪ >> these songs were the soundtrack of a certain generation but they've been the soundtrack of younger people because their parents played it and now their grandparents played it. but also a song like "you've got a friend" that i wrote on my own which is in the musical, people still sing that. it's really a living thing. >> who was young carole at the time klein and at the time

without an "e"? >> i think i was kind of innocent. i was kind of a tomboy. so i hung out with boys. i played with boys and never had a sense of limitations because of my gender. but there were still roles we were expected to fill. i was supposed to grow up and marry a doctor. >> of course. >> and i became carole king because when i started writing songs and realized i was going to go into some aspect of show business, i was never going to be a performer, just a writer i followed the prevailing trend of many jewish people in the entertainment industry and changed my name. i anglicized my name. and there were other carols in my school. and i wanted to change who i was. i don't know why, but i felt like i wanted to be more than little carol klein. so i added the "e" and that felt

like more who i was supposed to be. still is. >> well, it worked. in life and even early on piano by age 4. you conducted your first orchestra by 15. you wrote your first number one hit by the time your 17. do you think it's accurate to call you a prodigy? >> looking back i think it probably -- i probably fit the deflection. i of course never thought of myself as a prodigy. but i was and like to hope i still am smart. i use my brain. i think. and i like that i think, that's important to me. i was given a gift of music and it was definitely a gift. but i worked with it. i studied hard and i learned what i learned and i learned the language of music, music theory which i treasure that i have. >> now, you talked a lot about not initially thinking that you would be a singer.

how did that transformation happen from writer to bona fide superstar performer? >> the single incident that made me a performer was james taylor pushing me out on stage. i was playing background playing and singing, playing piano with him. with the legendary band. one night james says you're going to sing up on the roof tonight. and i'm like huh-uh no i'm not, i can't do that. and he wouldn't take no for an answer. so when i got out, i started playing. when i started, i was really scared but then i could tell that people were with me. and so that was the transition for me. >> and then tapestry the meter meteric rise of tapestry.

what was that experience like and how did you stay sane through it? >> boy, i never predicted in any way, shape or form that "tapestry" would do what it did. picture a nice jewish girl from brooklyn coming out in today's market without the body the costumes the whole thing. it happens, you have adele. she's a great example. you just have substance. >> through the years, you had that defining songwriting relationship with jerry goffin and also the personal relationship. tell me about that. you described it as a relationship of light and darkness. >> jerry used to say to me you have to be f'd up to be a genius. and i would say, no, you don't. life is going to bring your troubles, my look for it my

immerse yourself in the darkness of the world. you can be a genius if you want to be. i didn't know if i was a genius. i didn't care if i was a genius. i just wanted to have a good life. and if whatever i did was good, great. when i was writing my memoir "a natural woman," one of the people i interviewed -- i interviewed lots of people in my life to see if they remembered it the same as i did or what they had to contribute. one of them was paul mccartney. i told him what it was like working with jerry and this discussion whether you had to be messed up to be a genius and going there and going to the dark places. he said well i had that same experience with john. of course he did. >> with john lennon? >> yes, john lennon was in the dark place. he was always in the dark place and he found his own version of the light place with yoko interestingly enough. and it's when the world kind of said he's with yoko he's left us, but he was happy. he was happy. finally had found some form of happiness.

and then we lost him. >> how did you maintain that light inside you through such difficult and dark times? you even dealt with domestic abuse in one of your marriages. >> one of my marriages, i had domestic abuse. i want to make very clear it was rick evers so no one thinking it was jerry or anyone else. i guess i'm like a plant. i reach for the sun. i never thought of it that way. but i do feel that. i always feel like whatever's going on if there's a choice between being mean-spirited and "i'll show him" or anything like that i don't go there because i'm always reaching for the sun. i'm aspirational. >> in so many of the photos through your entire career you are the only woman in the room. what's your advice to young female artists today? you play with someone like sarah

borealis. what do you tell her about breaking through so many glass ceilings? >> just go for it. there's the power structure of the men that don't that keep us it from. i never thought about gender. i just thought about, we're all doing this thing and i know how to do it and i'm with all these men and so what? i was always secure in my professional life. i always knew i could do music and i just went in and did it. and men actually respected me for it. many more women in my experience are timid about speaking up and saying, i'm worth this, dammit. now, for me i felt that in relationships. i was shy -- i apologized, i wanted to please -- >> you were so strong in your work life. >> yes. >> and yet -- >> and maybe that even fed it because i was so strong in my work life and i was married to my work partner, i felt guilty probably and was more inclined to give him what he was needing

at home because i felt guilty about him not getting what he was needing from the world. >> but what about the business end? when you see someone like taylor swift coming out and saying streaming music isn't doing right by this new generation of especially writers? >> well, that's true. songwriters are, i think, the ones who suffer the most from the idea that music should be free. i pay for -- i bought this. i bought this. >> everybody has to earn a living. if i create a song, forget about me. it's about a young songwriter starting out trying to make a living. is he or she going to spend his time doing a job that isn't the artistic job that he or she doesn't want to do and what if he or she has something really wonderful to contribute to the world and has to make a living another way because people aren't paying for the music?

i don't think it should be exorbitant. but i also think that there's a fair amount that people should pay. >> you've gotten increasingly political over the years. >> oh, yeah. >> you campaigned for hillary clinton the last time around. >> i truly believed as i believe now, that she is very well-qualified to be the president of the united states. i never said a bad word about barack obama. and i really have tremendous respect for him. needless to say, not everybody agrees with everybody on everything. but i think he is going to be regarded by history as a much greater president than even now. >> when you were there finally with barack obama, the first woman to win the gershwin award, what was that like? >> it brought my two worlds together. when i was with barack obama, i was just like this is so amazing. and i think the world of him. >> speaking of great people through the ages we're doing this series on genius, what does

genius mean to you? >> boy, that's a tough one. i think genius is somebody with the ability to have -- to tap into something -- some people call it god, whatever name you give it nature it is that which animates us. and that force animates everyone. and some people in a different way than others that's a little more unique and special or influential or -- i don't know but that's what i think is some form of genius that you're touched by something greater than yourself. while attending princeton, wendy cop saw a glaring gap in america's education system. she wrote a thesis about a new idea creating a national teaching core made up of recent graduates to serve low-income

communities. in 1990 teach for america became a reality. it was so successful that in 2007 she took the concept globally with, teach for all. for more on the 7 days of genius, visit msnbc.com. it includes my fico® credit score. yup, you have our discover it card so you get your fico® credit score on your monthly statements and online...for free. that's pretty cool of you guys. well we just want to help you stay on top of your credit and avoid surprises. good. i hate surprises. ahhhh ahhhh are you ok? nope. we treat you like you'd treat you. we've already given more than 175 million free fico® credit scores to our cardmembers. apply today at discover.com sweet mother of softness... charmin!!! take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and you'll love what you see. not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft? ♪ ♪ ♪ "here i am. rock you like

a hurricane." ♪ fiber one now makes cookies. find them in the cookie aisle. i really admire my mother. despite what people said she bought me a sewing machine and she let me play with dolls and that was something that was kind of growing up culturally, it was quite unacceptable and she really dared to let me be different. [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain]

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between creativity and not being able to filter sensory distractions and that moderate noise like the sounds of a cafe can actually enhance creativity. music in the background can help, too. maybe you could try the acoustic sounds of say, john mayer, a writer who's made such a mark, he even has a martin guitar named after him. in musical form literally -- >> see what number we're up to. 3,218. there's a pick-up in it. >> you're like what is this instrument? >> this is the one i like the most. >> the neck is -- it's almost an electric guitar neck. i like watching people who don't like my music playing that guitar. >> it's got this rich sound. >> it's beautiful. >> so good. well, did you know pinocchio was a bad motivational speaker? i look around this room

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john mayer is a seventime grammy winner, and a prestigious guitarist. but in recent years, you might know him better for making headlines than for making music, from tabloid stories to a notorious playboy tell-all interview. then he started to build a quieter life in montana. i caught up with him as he works on a new deeply personal album and tries to put the focus back on his very first love. >> when i discovered the guitar when i was 13. all of the creative energy went into that. so i was sitting in class writing lyrics. i was in math class in one of those uneven desks writing

lyrics. >> there's a story that "back to the future" had a part. >> that was the big thing for a lot of kids. and that for me was like the moment the nerd gets revenge, right? like, who is this nerdy marty mcfly kid and he -- >> blows people's mind? >> yes. which is a child fantasy, being the quiet kid in the -- >> were you the quiet kid? >> that's a good question. by day, i was a mild-mannered kid who nobody really saw. and then by night, i would be in a room listening to charlie parker and john koltrain and freddy king and jimi hendrix and eric clapton and playing along with cities and then i went to school and it was difficult. >> you ultimately got to do that, you pursued that as an adult? >> it happened really fast for me really really fast. by 2000 i signed my record deal, 2001 record came out.

>> "room for squares," it's everywhere. ♪ your body is a wonderland ♪ >> you were transformed. >> yeah. >> what's that experience like? >> it's a rocket ride. >> were you ready for it? >> yeah everything that happened, it made perfect sense to a guy like me. if you asked somebody from fairfield, connecticut, what do you think is going to happen to john, they'd go, oh, yeah, absolutely. he was going to hit it so hard that at first people are going to go great job, and he was never going to stop until he went off the rails. >> you think you went off the rails, though? >> in my way. based on what my payload was, i didn't have a drinking problem. i wasn't -- it was a thinking man's fiasco. it was like -- and it's a lot hard tore explain to somebody. when you're 23 and you begin your life at the top of the

chart and you've got that spunk and you go bring on the world, and you go okay here's a grammy and here's an audience and you got it. now, when you invariably do find out that not everything you touch turns to gold you have a choice, you either bleed out or you tie off, right? >> what's the point at which you tied off? >> i tied off after i went all right, dude you did a couple of interviews where you were out of touch and you were being a ham and you were basically break-dancing into a nitroglycerin -- they handed me the playboy interview before it came out and -- you could have sat down in front of me and said, john that's not getting printed but i wanted you to know what would have happened had i not stopped that interview. >> do you think they shouldn't have printed that? >> no i do think they should have printed it. >> you just think there's a place for that moment of mercy? >> well you give it to

yourself. you give it to yourself. you've got to give it to yourself. but but, you know, in that period of time, i would have rather killed myself than been killed. i was never going to wrap my corvette around a tree. my high-speed crash was an intellectual one. >> where was the moment where you first thought, this is not what i want to be known for? >> oh man, the first time somebody misunderstands you and says you're a womanizer. >> you don't consider yourself a womanizer? >> no absolutely not. but when you're crafty and you're clever and you go well i'm just going to be as strange as they think i am, okay, now you're on tmz and you're playing into the role -- you're leaning into the role, right? and then you lose -- number one, you're not playing music anymore, you're not feeling anything honestly and you're not saying anything honestly. >> you once said, you abuse the ability to express yourself?

>> oh yeah. >> what's different now? >> i know what i want. i don't care if this video gets 500,000 views or 50,000 views or 5,000 views, i'm not out to effect that anymore. >> that's for me to care about? >> that's for you to care about. >> are you susceptible yourself to wanting the twitter feedback and the approval? >> yeah that's why i pulled myself off of it. i'm a recovered ego addict. and the only way i can be sure that i don't relapse is to admit that i constantly have this ego addiction every day. so i do the grammys and i go home. if i stayed i'd get high again. and then i'd get high and then i'd get low. >> high on the approval? >> well, yeah. you've already looked through twitter, everybody goes it's great. and then you're low again because you can't stop looking and you get low because you read the one negative thing. so i'm a recovered ego addict. this is not the first outfit i put on today.

i'm admitting that because that's my aa for being an ego maniac. >> are you going to check twitter after this interview? >> i will not. but i check the mirror the original twitter, i check my mentions in the glass. >> how has this changed since you broke -- there's new technology now, there's instant feedback now. >> the technology that i think i'm confident enough to say is hurting music is that musicians are very self-conscious now. they're very self-aware. i see people sing and i go they're opening they do okay. and they're going to find out if they do okay. >> they're looking for the feedback? >> they're singing whilst judging. they're performing for the twitter mentions. they're just hoping that when they get in the car on the way to dinner their face is lit up and they're checking to see if they did okay. i could go on a sermon if i wanted to.

but i just don't know how old fart it would sound. i just don't want to call b.s. on things that aren't for me. you have to choices. you can look at sam smith and say, well i knew sam smith when it was that. but they don't. >> are you implying that sam smith is trainer wheels for someone -- >> no, i don't. but if you wanted to be cynical, you could listen to it and go oh, i've heard that when it was xy and z or something. i like sam smith. i would use sam smith as an example for so many great things. i go they're doing that again, like that's been done. but you go wait don't hold your age against other people, you know what i mean? because it's the first time i've ever done -- ♪ and they go wow, i've never heard someone sing like that. >> do you think it's getting worse? >> yeah because there's nobody to tell you what to do anymore.

artists over through the record company heads and they can't tell an artist when to put a single up -- put a clip of your sound on instagram -- >> and they can say whatever they want. >> anytime they want. there's no checks and balances. >> how's technology changed that? when you look at taylor swift coming out and saying -- professionally -- >> we have to be able to talk about taylor swift professionally. we have to be able to talk about -- >> when she comes out and says i'm not putting it on spotify, that doesn't respect the artists and the writers enough? >> i think that's cool. that's really cool. artists need the person with the loudest voice to speak for them. >> is she doing that? >> i think so when you say that. go to the met ball that's a great way to use your voice. or you can use your voice to give things. the cynical sold say, you're helping yourself. i think that's a really cool thing for a musician to do. 2% of the music industry has 80% of all the media about it you

know what i mean? there's like four people in -- >> that get auto press? >> who get all the press. if any of those four people say, i want to speak for the other people who would never -- the only reason we're talking about taylor swift taking spotify on is because she's taylor swift and that's great. >> you said you could do that or you could go to the met gala -- >> i'm going to the met gala. >> does it bother you when you look at her or anyone else we're talking about in this conversation and they've got that side -- >> no, not at all. nothing bothers me anymore, man. >> do you still have that emotional reaction, though? >> yeah. >> taylor swift, one of those four people? >> i check myself with it, but, yeah. there are going to be times when i make music as popular or empirically valuable as that in terms of making pop music. that won't sell as many copies and i'm fine with that. you get to an age, you go look if i save a baby from a burning building and kanye saves a baby from a burning building three

more google news hits on kanye. i'm fine with it. >> you and kanye saving babies from buildings is a movie i'd like to see. >> together we're unstoppable. but that's a great episode of quf "e.r." right there. but being honest with you and knowing what to ask for in this life. i put out a song called "paper doll." the song never got listened to as a song. it became a news story because of the lyrics. >> but you must have known that's what it was going to become -- >> i'm not in the business of telling people what the song is about. i never said anything about it and now i just go look i can say the name taylor swift, she's an artist. i'm an artist. let's just everybody stop. we're rich people who get to live out our dreams, let's just stop it. i'm a musician who's bigger than one song or one record. so it's really more about the

longevity of all the work that goes together. and i'm just not interested in the things that won't last forever. >> what have you found in montana? >> i just found home, man. and it gives you outside perspective. i'm going to have one wife a certain number of children friends that are set, fans that will listen to the music that i make and the greatest moment for me was giving up the big fight, the big fight to be this thing that gets off the airplane at l.a.x. and floats through -- and i have a lot of admiration and envy sometimes for people who large. i'll be standing by the front desk sometimes and be like, you know -- anybody want to notice me? >> is there a part of you that still wants to be one direction? >> that's such a good question. sure. but it wants to be one direction

via neil young. >> if you could say one thing to young john mayer right before "room for squarses," what's that message? >> there's nothing you could tell that kid. give him a hug and i'd say, that guy's really really talented but i don't want to be anywhere near him when that thing goes off. this is what i would tell my young self. you are now my young self. there was never a shot there was never a shot of doing this perfectly. it was never in the cards. that's what i write, people. i wrote this new up-and-coming australian rapper i don't want to give her name away. i said, this is it. i said don't be upset that you're feeling like you're just an inch away from having your cake here this is the new way it's going to be. you're never going to do it

seamlessly. >> success comes with hatred -- >> that's how we learn about things. i write, hey i'm john i just want to let you know that this feeling you're having that you've become successful but the world won't stop hating on you, this is not a broken version of success, this is the new version of success. >> so we're doing this series on genius and i promised you i would not put you in the position of describing yourself as a genius -- >> i've proven through this interview i'm not a genius. there's this other side you get to. and you don't get there very often. this other side while, while you're writing, you speak so much of the truth, you're learning from it. >> john mayer, it's like a therapy session every time i talk to you. >> thank you man. >> and now it's america's therapy session. >> that will be $325. insurance doesn't cover it. music stops ♪music resumes♪ music stops

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from the 1950s to 2015 judd, carole and john have

created culturally defining works. in that span we've seen lps turn to mp3s, video killed the radio star and the internet changed just about everything. but for all the ways our culture is changing, these artists embody one constant individuals with a spark capable of bringing us something special and willing to devote their lives to doing so navigating all those changes along the way. thanks for joining us today. i'll leave you with a few outtakes. >> so for me, going -- ♪ i won't give you clearance on that song. that will be $10,000, per side -- that's mechanical and publishing. so it's $20,000. >> put a can in it. >> always. >> we're going to banner this with she hates cute cats. >> no, i don't. i love cats. >> she doesn't hate cats. >> seth rogen is really hard funny, fast -- language is

sharp. and not really like traditional one-liners. but he kind of speaks in jokes, just his voice and his rhythm -- >> because he's a weird dude. >> he's a canadian.

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call 1-888-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com. witness to history. thousands gathered to mark the bloody sunday anniversary. in the next hour president obama will deliver a speech 50 years to the day. we'll bring that to you live. one year later, the disappearance of malaysian air flight 370 remains a complete mystery. what new do we know now that we didn't know then? unraveling the e-mail mystery. a live report from florida where former secretary of state hillary clinton is expected to speak. trashing history again? more reports today of isis militants destroying another ancient site in iraq. we have those details ahead. hello, everybody. welcome to "weekends with alex witt."

i'm betty nguyen in for alex. here's what's happening. we begin with all eyes on selma. you're seeing live pictures of the edmund pettus bridge will president obama will deliver remarks in about 90 minutes from now. he will join thousands of civil rights leaders to mark the 50th anniversary of the historic bloody sunday march. nbc's kristen welker is in selma. kristen, what can we expect to hear from president obama? >> reporter: first of all, betty betty, just to point out, tens of thousands of people have already started to arrive here to mark this anniversary. you can feel the excitement and the anticipation. president obama expected to arrive shortly. he will be speaking from the edmund pettus bridge that is the site of bloody sunday when in 1965 those activists set out to march across that bridge in the name of voting rights and civil rights. and of course they were beaten back by police troopers. so president obama will make his remarks there. then he will take a symbolic

march across that bridge along with the first family. it is going to be incredibly emotional. i've been talking to a senior administration official who tells me that this is a meaningful day for president obama. we have heard him talk about the fact that what happened here in selma helped to pave the way for him to become the nation's first african-american president. so we'll likely hear him talk about that. but then he's going to talk more broadly about the progress that has been made since selma and the work that remains, particularly in the wake of incidents like ferguson and the 2013 supreme court decision to scale back the voting rights act, which is exactly what the people here at selma were fighting for. then we'll hear the president really give a call to action to the younger generation to get more engaged in politics to go to the polls in bigger numbers. we're also going to be hearing from congressman john lewis, the last living leader of that march here in 1965. and he spoke to nbc's chuck todd. take a listen to what he had to say. >> the physical scars or the

mental scars, what's been more lasting? >> well the physical scars are still visible. when i go back i remember -- the bridge for me is almost a sacred place because that's where some of us gave a little blood and where some people almost died. but that bridge what happened on that sunday, has changed america forever. >> reporter: and i've been talking to the people who gathered here today. they say what happened here on this bridge also helped to change the world. of course you can hear that entire interview with chuck on "meet the press" tomorrow. so, again, people have just come here from all over the country, betty. in addition to president obama, there are also going to be about 100 members of congress. initial republican leadership wasn't going to attend this event but then late friday, an about-face.

a top house republican, kevin mccarthy announced he will be here. it will be an emotional, exciting day for everyone who's here. betty? >> absolutely. quite a crowd that is there already. thank you so much, kristen. president obama will deliver remarks from selma later this afternoon. we of course will bring them to you live as it happens. now to florida, the annual clinton global initiative university expected in the audience and in fact to speak, former secretary of state hillary clinton, who has yet to make public comments on the e-mail controversy surrounding her. while mrs. clinton is scheduled to speak later today, a bit earlier, daughter chelsea clinton joined a panel on food and security and the future of energy. joining me is alex seizewald who's covering this. when is hillary clinton expected to speak and do you have any sense if she will address the e-mail matter that a lot of people are talking about? >> well, we're expecting hillary

clinton to speak around 6:00 this evening. i would be very surprised if she addresses the e-mails. she's avoided talking about it and i think she will continue to avoid talking about it until as soon as april. here, she doesn't want to step on the headline of hundreds of people here who have started charitable projects all over the world. she will announce data from a project that the clinton foundation has been working on, a project with her daughter. that officially comes out on monday in new york where i expect again she will avoid talking about the e-mails. >> alex the e-mail account was the big topic during the state department briefing friday as you probably know. here's mhairi harf on whether clinton's staff gave them everything they had. >> the e-mails she gave us back covered the breadth of her time -- >> how do you know that? >> i know when she started and i know when she left.

they correspond to that. they cover all the time in between -- >> [ inaudible question ]. >> there's not like two months missing. >> help us clarify here. we've heard that secretary clinton turned over 55,000 e-mails. does the state department have every e-mail from secretary clinton's server or are there potentially thousands still solely in her possession? >> reporter: right. that's the core issue here. we just don't know how many e-mails there were on her private server. and it was her staff working under her direction who hand-picked which e-mails they would turn over to the state department. the fundamental problem is we just don't know. there hasn't been any neutral arbiter who's gone through the e-mails. they say they've provided every potential federal record anything that could fall under the federal records act and administration policies that need to be saved. but we just don't know. that's the core problem with using a private server versus a state department server where

administrators could go in and look at the entire universe of her e-mails. it's much hard tore get those since they're under her control. >> if you think about the amount of e-mail that just you or i send in a day, 55,000 over the course of years doesn't seem like a whole lot, you would assume there are still more. >> reporter: right. we really just don't know. if she replies to a ten-page e-mail, is that ten pages in the 55,000? it's just impossible to know. it sounds like a big number. they say it covers the breadth of her tenure at the state department. but without knowing the number that that's out of, 55,000 out of how many? it's impossible to know what else is missing, what else wasn't included. perhaps nothing. it's entirely possible they are acting very forthright. but without knowing that full universe of e-mails, questions are still going to be asked and people will raise lots of questions. we had subpoenas coming last week from the house committee investigating benghazi. republicans certainly won't be

satisfied that clinton is voluntarily turning over everything. >> thank you so much alex. at this hour potential republican 2016 hopefuls are once again flocking to the state of iowa. many leading gop names are appearing today at the iowa ag submit. ted cruz is part of a talk at the iowa state fairgrounds. jeb bush spoke about agriculture trade and cuba. >> all the mythology built up about cuba it looks more like north korea than a country emerging towards a freer place. the better approach would have been to say to cuba to the regime, you make these changes and of course we will open up a diplomatic relations. and of course we'll open up trade. and ultimately that will create a growing economy for cuba that will create opportunities. but right now, this is not something that we should be doing. >> nbc's kacycasekacie hunt is in des moines.

how was bush received? >> reporter: this is being led by a major donor here in iowa who owns a lot of agricultural interests. so he's been diving down into those topics that you heard governor bush talk about, trade cuba the renewable fuel standard which is very important here in iowa because it deals with ethanol. so we haven't heard a lot of very political answers here from these potential candidates. this is of course governor bush's first trip to iowa as a sort of presidential candidate in waiting. so there's been a lot of anticipation for how he would perform. this was a q-and-a style session which he prefers. he did talk about cuba. he walked a very careful line on that issue about the renewable fuel standard.

it's something we'll be hearing a lot about in the iowa caucus context. he thinks it should be phased out. he also talked about immigration, the other issue he could have concerns with on the right of the party. many of those voters here in the caucuses. he was careful to say that he thinks that the 11 million people who are here illegally should have a path to legal status. but that's distinct from of course a path to citizenship. >> and as we watch this play out, who's expected to be the star there? >> reporter: i'm sorry. could you say that again? >> as we watch this play out there in iowa and speakers take to the microphone, who's expected to be the star there? >> reporter: like i said everyone's watching governor bush very carefully because it's his first trip. but the final speaker here will be wisconsin governor scott walker who's been leading in some iowa polls coming off a strong performance at the freedom summit a few weeks ago also here in iowa. this is going to require

governor walker to really dive down into some of those policy weaves. and we've seen him struggle to do that in recent appearances. he's taken criticism from donors for being too broad, not answering tough questions on specific things. we'll see how he does later this afternoon. >> we'll be watching. kasie, thank you. other news now, protests erupted in madison, wisconsin, overnight after a 19-year-old black man was shot and killed by a police officer friday. the police chief says the officer was responding to a report of a man walking in traffic and hitting pedestrians. he says the officer followed the man to a residence where a struggle ensued after the officer was attacked. russian authorities announced this morning the arrest of two men for the murder of russian opposition leader boris nemtsov. the two were taken into custody. officials say president putin

has been informed of their arrests. bob menendez is speaking out, addressing reports about impending federal criminal charges against him. menendez has been under investigation for his acceptance of gifts and free jet trips from a friend, a florida eye doctor. federal prosecutors want to know if he abused his office to help the doctor with personal business interests in exchange for those gifts. >> let me be very clear, very clear. i have always conducted myself appropriately and in accordance with the law. every action that i and my office have taken for the last 23 years that i have been privileged to be in the united states congress has been based on pursuing the best policies for the people of new jersey and of this entire country. >> sources familiar with the case say a federal grand jury could bring charges against him later this month. let's get to the weather

now. we may not be feeling it just yet. but we are in for a warm-up this weekend. much-needed, in fact. a quieter weather pattern expected for much of the country next week. and in pennsylvania they are making the most out of the snow there. teams raced cardboard creations down a mountain in the poconos. among the competitors was a nutcracker. and you have a viking ship. i think that's a car. is that a monkey? what about the forecast? here's dr. greg postel of the weather channel. hi greg. >> a little bit of unsettled weather moving through the upper midwest, parts of the great lakes and the northeast today thanks to a clipper moving through bringing light snow across the region. through the afternoon hours here, by 8:00 tonight, lake enhanced of lake-effect snow showers here across parts of northern new york state, new hampshire, vermont. but boston and new york city will not see any of the accumulating snow.

some clouds and chilly temperatures perhaps. but that's about it. the accumulations of 1 to 3 will be reserved for the areas downwind of the lakes. elsewhere across the country today, it looks really nice. temperatures at or above average nearly everywhere. look at this. 60 in st. louis. 40 in bismarck. 41 in chicago. it's a lot better than it's been lately. tomorrow, that little lake-effect snow shower activity across parts of the northeast. rainy times coming into the south. but overall, pretty mild even that way. betty, back to you. >> we will take it. thank you very much. and a reminder tomorrow at 2:00 a.m. daylight saving time begins so we all lose an hour of sleep. turn your clocks ahead before you hit the sack. and while you're at it change the batteries in your smoke alarm. coming up, a justice department report leads to the dismissal of two ferguson police officers. but eric holder may consider dismantling the entire department.

we'll examine that next. are one, we are essentially the same regardless of where we come from. um, there are definitely things that are different about us culturally and everything else but at the end of the day we are the same and we really need to start seeing the world as a place that was gifted to us. [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain]

[ music and wh

taking a look at the crowd there in selma as they gather for the 50th anniversary. you're seeing right there attorney general eric holder in the crowd. of course we'll be going to the president speaking there live as soon as he takes the podium. as you know it's been 50 years since a few hundred citizens changed the course of history for an entire nation. the march 7th 1965 march from selma to alabama's capitol in montgomery started out as just another sunday. by day's end, it would be known as bloody sunday. and it would forever alter how the country viewed the civil rights movement. this afternoon, 50 years later, the nation's first african-american president will mark the anniversary at the base of the edmund pettus bridge in selma.

msnbc's trymaine lee is there for us today. trymaine what's the energy like there, especially as we wait for remarks from the president? >> reporter: it's kind of a mix of -- i wouldn't sigh a jubilance, but a sense of jubilee. so many of the people who are from this community have family members who in some way participated in the selma to montgomery march or participated in bloody sunday itself. other than that, they experienced life here in this community for so long. so folks -- hundreds of people you might have a shot of the crowd here by the edmund pettus bridge. hundreds of others are still waiting to get in on the surrounding streets. it's not just a celebration necessarily. people are in good spirits commemorating the anniversary of the selma marches. >> it is quite a crowd especially when you look at the big picture and see how many people thailand in there.

you see attorney general eric holder there. one of many dignitaries there. president obama will be speaking members of congress will be there, former president george w. bush will be there. so a lot of people in the crowd. you got a chance to speak to congressman john lewis this afternoon who of course was there on that day 50 years ago. what did he say? >> reporter: speaking to john lewis who played such a prominent role in the early marches and nearly was killed on the edmund pettus bridge what struck me is all these years later, he sit the ache of bloody sunday still sits with me but he says there's so much work to do. let's take a listen to what he had to say. >> our battle scars that -- leff at the foot of the bridge, tell me over and over again, yes, we made progress but we still have

a distance to go before we lay down the burden of race in america. >> reporter: so many people have fought in so many different ways. but he was actually physically attacked for pushing for voting rights as were so many others. so for a lot of folks in this community, that bridge and street in selma are truly hallowed ground for the fight for equality in america. >> absolutely. msnbc's trymaine lee joining us by phone, thank you so much. stay with us because we have much more coverage on the 50th anniversary there in selma, alabama. we'll be right back.

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welcome back, everybody. now to ferguson where there is more fallout from that scathing justice department report. nbc has learned that all three police department employees who were being investigated for exchanging racist e-mails are out of jobs. two police officers resigned and one court official was fired. those racist e-mails were just a part of a long list of disturbing findings uncovered by

a justice department investigator. joining me now is paul butler professor at georgetown school of law. he's also a former federal prosecutor. thanks for being with us today. >> great to be here. >> let's get through this. in that 100-page report we also learned that ferguson made most of its money by ticketing residents, many with bogus offenses. i want you to take a listen to what attorney general eric holder described some of those examples as being. >> during the summer of 2012 one ferguson police officer detained a 32-year-old african-american man who had just finished playing basketball at a park. the officer approached the man while he was sitting in his car and he was resting. the car's windows appeared to be more heavily tinted than ferguson's code allowed so the officer did have legitimate grounds to question him. but with no parent justification, the officer proceeded to accuse the man of being a pedophile. he prohibited the man from using his cell phone and ordered him

to get out of his car for a pat-down search, even though he had no reason to suspect that the man was armed. and when the man objected citing his constitutional rights, the police officer drew his service weapon pointed it at the man's head and arrested him on eight different counts. now, this arrest caused the man to lose his job. >> paul just yesterday, attorney general holder said he is not ruling out completely dismantling this police department. do you think that's what's going to happen? >> i think it's got to. these injustices happened on the watch of the ferguson city officials. when we listen to the attorney general, it doesn't sound any different from what was happening 50 years ago in selma. we think about the young woman who was a victim of domestic violence call the police in ferguson. they ended up arresting her for a minor housing code violation. she said she would never call the police again even if she

were being killed. that shows you it's not just a tragedy of civil rights. it's a tragedy in our democracy. >> a lot of people are making the comparisons between what happened there and the situation 50 years ago. but if they go after this police department and dismantle it, where do they begin with that? >> fortunately or unfortunately, however you look at it we have a series of cases in which the department has gone in and they have actually improved some police departments. what they do is change the rules for using deadly force. american police are in some cities gun-happy. over 1,000 americans were killed last year by police compared to zero in england, four in germany, 12 in canada. it's not that we're more violent as americans. it's that we allow the police to use deadly force a lot more. that's one thing that can be done. civilian oversight is another thing. a third is to have early warning procedures for the bad apple cops to get rid of them so we don't have situations like what happened in ferguson, like what happened in staten island. there were early warnings that

these officers were capable of using excessive force. so when that happens, we have to make sure that the system steps in to get rid of these officers. >> so you've seen dismantled police departments truly turn around and be for the better? >> certainly, when we look at change on the ground and one very important issue is whether they're using deadly force. so there are definitely procedures that can be put in place to make them use deadly force less and still keep their citizens safe. more fundamentally, though, we need structural change. the police in ferguson were arresting people for things like jaywalking. police shouldn't be allowed anywhere in the united states to lock somebody up for a petty misdemeanor like that. >> for jaywalking? we heard some examples from the attorney general. but give us examples of what people were being arrested for. >> there was a man who was sitting outside of a park that's one thing eric holder talked about, just coming off after a basketball game. the police said, are you a pedophile? what are you doing outside in

playground? he said i'm playing basketball. the police arrested him. he lost his job because he was a federal contractor. another guy, the police said what's your name? he said, mike. show me some idea. his id said michael. the police cited him for -- >> he got cited for that? >> this does not sound like the united states. but the problem is that this is one police department out of 18,000. african-american citizens not complaining about all of these police departments but complaining about many of them. so, again, it's important that we start in ferguson. but we really need wide-scale change all over the united states. we need fundamental reform of our criminal justice system. >> on the flip side when it comes to those references mike or michael in this case, is there any recourse for this? >> unfortunately, some of what happened here is legal. that's why we need to rein in the power of the police. the supreme court has given them

all this discretion talking about the supreme court limiting the voting rights of folks in ferguson, at the same time this dramatically expanded police power and reduced ability of citizens to challenge that police power because police have so much immunity. some of what the police were doing was illegal, like arresting people without cause. but some of it like the way they used the citizens as a slush fund the reason they were issuing these tickets is because it paid for their jobs. they got incentives, that was their incentive to arrest more people. so lawmakers can step in and make a difference there. >> sounds like there's a lot of issues at play here. paul, thank you so much for your insight today. >> great to be here. coming up the political fallout from hillary clinton's e-mail set-up. what effect will it have on her campaign should he choose to run? as we await president obama's speech in selma, alabama, we'll bring that to you live as soon as it happens. stay right here with us. r towels but i had to use so many sheets per spill... the roll just disappeared.

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welcome back, everybody. here is a live picture of selma, alabama. you see thousands have already gathered. in fact, they have been gathering since early this morning to mark the 50th anniversary of the historic day known as bloody sunday. you see many people in the crowd there. in fact, president obama will be speaking today within hopefully the next hour. there was some talk that his plane was arriving a little late. but we understand he has in fact landed in montgomery, alabama, and is making his way there to selma. as soon as he takes to the podium and the microphone, we'll bring it to you live. in the meantime now to publics and the decision by hillary clinton to exclusively use a private e-mail address during her tenure as secretary of state. that has generated a controversy that is taking a life of its own. mrs. clinton, who has turned over 55,000 pages of e-mail to the state department has yet to fully explain why she didn't use the official state department

e-mail account and said relying on a private e-mail server. let's bring in jimmy williams and republican strategist joe watkins. thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today. >> thanks betty. >> joe, let me start with you. here's what jeb bush said about this yesterday. >> for security purposes you need to be behind a firewall that recognizes the world for what it is and it's a dangerous world and security would mean that you couldn't have a private server. it's a little baffling to be honest with you, that that didn't come up in secretary clinton's thought process. >> so is this like red meat to hillary's potential opponents? >> i don't know that it's red meat. nobody wishes the united states ill that's an american.

we don't wish any ill in our own country. certainly this is an issue that needs to be investigated a little bit further. and it's fair to suppose that things could have been done differently. but i will say this i don't think that secretary clinton loses a single vote from this. i think politically speaking with regards to any presidential ambitions she might have this doesn't really impact those in a big way, at least not yet. i don't think that anybody that was going to vote for her is not going to vote for her now because of this. and because it's come out so early in the campaign because it's early 2015 she has plenty of time to rebound from it. >> and she hasn't officially announced, too. jimmy, what do you think about that? do you agree? >> i agree with what joe says. joe's making a lot of sense today. i don't think a lot of voters are tuned in nor do they care.

and i think it's hypocritical for jeb bush to say anything. he's only released 10% of all the e-mails that he sent when he was governor of the state of florida over those eight years. we don't know 90% of what was in those e-mails. but of the 10% we do know there were people's social security numbers in those e-mails. if that's not a data breach, i don't know what it is. it's hypocritical for the former governor to say this. do i think it's odd that either jeb bush or hillary clinton were using -- >> that was my question. why opt to go outside government e-mail -- >> i would say this. jeb was a governor, which is different than being the secretary of state. >> so what? that's irrelevant. he's running for president, joe. >> yes, he is running for president now. no doubt. one of the things i liked about jeb is the fact that he would respond to almost anybody that would e-mail him.

so you have a personal response from the governor of florida about any kind of issue that you wanted to talk to him about. i have thought that was pretty remarkable. he's even e-mailed me responded to my e-mail. >> but i have a bigger problem which is we're holding hillary clinton to a different standard. i think that's just crazy. no secretary of state in the history of the united states has not used -- they've all used a private e-mail, every single one of them. so i don't understand why she's being held to a different standard. why isn't jeb bush or anyone else being held to the same standard? why is it that the media -- by the way, guess who cares about this? the media. nobody else in the country could give a damn about this. nobody. so we're going to continue -- >> wait a second, jimmy. the fact that she had this server in her home does that play into -- >> as jeb bush did. >> isn't it odd, though? >> i don't know the answer.

i think what we should do is -- the benghazi committee that trey gowdy has in the house of representatives should bring in every former living secretary of state during e-mail time and have them come and testify before his committee. why doesn't he do that? he'll just have hillary clinton come in time and again because they have some sort of repeat of the 1990s when it was nothing but the fred thompson investigation palooza -- >> jimmy, are you telling me no democrat is concerned about this -- >> not one. >> no one say this is worrisome? >> not one. americans don't care. they care about the economy, school tuition, gas prices and things that actually matter. i don't know of a single -- here's the other thing. secretary clinton said she is turning over every single e-mail to the state department. the state department will then turn over every single one of those to the benghazi committee. the question becomes, when is jeb bush going to do the same?

all we care about is fairness and an equal, level playing field. if you're going to run for president, why hold a woman, why hold hillary clinton to a different standard than everybody else running -- >> i would agree with that. >> joe, you get the last word here, go. >> i agree that we ought to hold everybody to the same standard. it ought to be a level playing field and not do anything to secretary clinton that we wouldn't do in any other candidate. but at the same time we need to figure out what happened and figure out how to fix it. i don't think this is going to hurt secretary clinton going forward in a big way. but it needs to be investigated. >> always a spirited time with you two. thanks so much for joining us today. >> jimmy joe. >> exactly. selma, then and now. next we examine the role bloody sunday played in changing public sentiment in voting rights and what we expect to hear from the president in selma. i'll join my colleagues next about it all. dentures look clean,

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50 years ago today on this small bridge over the alabama river, 600 peaceful marchers were turned back by the police and history. clouds of gas choked the sky as police road on horseback a cavalry charging on its own citizened joined by armed civilian volunteers dozens of marchers were injured. nearly 20 hospitalized. today, america's first african-american president will speak on that now hallowed ground. joining us from selma is msnbc's melissa harris-perry and joy reid. melissa, what is the mood like there in selma today? >> it's interesting. it's a mix of what the people of selma call every year their jubilee celebration. although we are here as media particularly marking this 50th anniversary, the people of selma mark this day every single year

and they mark it as a jub leeilee. they say the local and federal government failed to protect those folks. and their ultimate victory in the summer when the 1965 voting rights act was passed. but that jubilee, that celebration is also tempered. it's a sober moment both to remember the people who died in the context of the selma campaign, people who were injured in the context of the selma campaign but also the fact that our current voting rights act has been gutted by the supreme court which really pulled out the heart of section 4 formula. so it is both a time -- a spirit of jubilation and of celebration but also of sobering concern. >> absolutely. as we play some video of that day back 50 years ago, joy, i want to ask you, what do you expect to hear from president obama today?

>> well betty, president obama obviously is a student of history. he's a great -- i think he's a great purveyor of history as well. i expect him to dive into that moment to explain what it means. he's very good at doing that. but not speaking to expectations, what i would hope to hear from the president, touching on what melissa said -- this isn't his first time speaking at the commemoration of bloody sunday. but in this moment i think the president is going to have to try to connect the dots. he's going to have to try to connect the dots not just between the voting rights act that was created then and is now under threat now. but i think he cannot avoid the black lives matter moment. it will be interesting to say if he uses the phrase "black lives matter." if he talks about the juxtaposition between the brutality of the police 50 years ago and the moment we're in now where we have a specific police force in ferguson that's been held to account by his own justice department which described in excruciating detail the deprivation of citizens'

rights. what americans would need i think, at this moment to hear from the first black president is how that present moment and the things happening in our country today make what happened 50 years ago matter? >> and if he uses the "black lives matter" language he will embody the best of lyndon johnson when johnson said we shall overcome. it was not only the legislative action in that moment it was also signaling his sense of solidarity with these activists. so if the president signals today towards that "black lives matter" movement if he gestures towards it, it will be the very best of what lbj was when he was a friend to those movements. >> and back to connecting the dots here as we remember the events of 50 years ago while reporting on similar issues today, ferguson voting rights income inequality you spoke about how your father would say the struggle continues. how fitting is that today? >> not only would he often say it he used to sign my birthday

cards when i was 5 and 6 years old, the struggle continues, daddy. i had no idea what it meant as a child. but i certainly understand it now. it really is this idea that to win a battle is not won once and for all and then you simply can rest. it's a reminder that you are picking up a struggle that has already preceded you, that you are continuing in something where you are already bought and paid for. an opportunity to talk with congressman john lewis today, and that sense of you are bought and paid for, you stand on those shoulders, you have a responsibility. but also you're not going to solve it all in your lifetime. you're going to pass it forward to a next generation. they're going to pick it up. so i think very much like today, it's both a sobering thing to remember that all is not well but also i think it can be comforting that you don't have to solve it all in one lifetime. >> as we look back almost five decades to the day after selma, president johnson signed the voting rights act, how critical

was bloody sunday in turning sentiment? >> it was critical. you have to thinkn't a it in the about it in the context of the time. they were all focused on this one event. it was so shocking to the rest of the country, even though they'd already seen birmingham and the bombings and this sort of narrative of southern violence had become something that was distasteful to the people in the rest of the country. but also kind of put congress on the spot and allowed lyndon johnson to apply that pressure that he was so well known for because he could show his fellow southerners in their worse light but invite them to be their better selves. and he was able to corral enough northern politicians to get these through. the three marches that took place -- people always talk about the one march. but you had bloody sunday. then you had a e no. you actually had dr. martin luther king jr. and lyndon johnson figuring out how to take that movement and move it forward for politics. you had the turnaround tuesday march, which was a

disappointment to a lot of young activists that they didn't get to complete the journey to montgomery. but then the final march on march 24 you actually had a giant contingent of americans from all over the country. not just people from the south, but all over the country who answered the call to come and literally used their moral force to have the act happen. the idea that we would now declare the end of history. the supreme court would say that those people those bodies in the street. the people who bled and in fact, died to get that act through that that is the end of it. that we can look at history almost as a beautiful picture in a book not as a living preething thing that is happening now. i think it's frightening. i think a lot of americans do like to look at the postcard and forget the reality. remind congress. a lot of members of congress, mu melissa melissa, they are marching. they feel what they are doing is renewing the voting act. >> this is not a commemorative

march. this is a march for voting rights in 2015 this is what they are here to do. >> all right, ladies thank you very much and we'll and back to you in our next hour. thank you to melissa harris-perry and joy reed. we'll check with you in the next hour. thank you so much. >> thank you. president obama will deliver remarks from selma later this afternoon and we'll bring you those when it happens. in the meantime did the president of russia orchestrate the highjacking of flight 370? again, i'll discuss the possibility of a putin connection with the man who first floated this idea. the setting is perfect. but then erectile dysfunction happens again. you know what? plenty of guys have this issue not just getting an erection but keeping it. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take

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can you believe it? already tomorrow marks one year since the disappearance of malaysia airlines flight 370. a scientist and journalist things the plane was hijacked and flown to kazakhstan.

"the mraep that wasn't there" and wrote new york article magazine how crazy do i think i am that i know where the malaysia airlines plane is. thank you for being with us. first of all, do you think it kazakhstan? >> it's just a hypothesis i pieced together. frankly with mh 370 we don't have a ton of data. the only thing we know about the final six hours of this plane's flight are the seven data points, the pings exchanged between the plane and the satellite. if you look at those pings, mathematically, they conclusively say that the plane went south. so, now that we've searched the sea bed, there is nothing there. after a year nothing has washed ashore anywhere on the indian ocean. the question i wanted to ask, is there any way this plane didn't go south? it turns out it is physically possible that the data could have been spoofed. >> tampered with.

>> tampered with altered. >> what would be a motive or reasoning behind a possible hijacking or tampering of all of this? >> frankly the motive is the hardest thing to try to pin down because nobody visibly benefitted from this act. what i want to do is say, we can't say why someone would do this, but where does the math say the plane would have gone? part of it looks like it can't be. from the data that can't be spoofed we can derive a route and goes up over indiana and along the border and into kazakhstan. >> why putin and what kind of reaction are you getting from this theory? >> that russia is very technically savvy because you would have to be incredibly diabolically savvy to pull this off. it's a lot to swallow. i grant you. we're just trying to desperately figure out how it couldn't have gone south. >> again, what would be the benefit, though? >> exactly.

the context, bare in mind this happened after russia had an ex-crimia. so, there is a lot of tension between russia and the united states. in fact just a day and a half before the united states had imposed sanctions on russia and there had been a lot of angry language from russia in response to this. this is not the united states plane, but context of tengs that were around at that time. >> any indications when we may have an official answer to this? >> issuing a preliminary report tomorrow, there may be esome answers. but we know they haven't found the plane. >> you're pretty sure putin is not involved in that official answer they're releasing? >> it's out there. i don't think he is there, no. the closer you look at this case, the weirder it looks. a very strong and baffling case. a lot of people called it the mystery of all time. >> we still don't know where it is. it's fascinating. how can a plane just disappear

like that? and now a year later, we still don't have the final answer to it. >> just gets weirder. >> well thank you so much for your insight. we do appreciate that. and we do invite you to stay with us as we await live remarks from president obama. he just landed in alabama and en route to the edmund pettis bridge right now. keep it right here we'll bring it to you live when he starts speaking. you're watching msnbc. realized that stouffer's mac and cheese... ...is made with real cheddar aged to perfection for 6 long months when you start with the best cheddar, you get the best mac and cheese so, what about jessica? ...what about her? stouffer's. made for you to love™. and when you get some time to yourself try stouffer's mac and cheese in a smaller size. i knew instantly that this was...wow! it's crest hd. it's amazing. new crest hd gives you a 6x healthier mouth and 6x whiter teeth in just one week. it gets practically every detail.

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