go just far enough. >> thank you all for joining me tonight. chris hayes is up next. >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington and you're watching "hardball." that was, of course, mayor james knowles of ferguson who announced this evening that chief jackson is resigning his post, effective next week. this follows a devastating justice department report of systemic discrimination cared out by the police force in that city. that investigation began after the fatal shooting of michael

challenge to be her enemy. the republicans were right to let the media ask the questions in the e-mail debate. the debate and drama shift to the belief that the bloodhounds have left the field and are nosing around in the house and in fact up in the clinton bedroom. when it does, you can expect safely predicted, hillary clinton will be the one getting most of the public support. this does, after all, have the aspect of a soap opera and in soap operas, the public tends to take sides. anne gearan is a reporter with "the washington post," kellyanne conway and robert gibbs was the white house press secretary under president obama. how far are republicans willing to pursue this? they are asking for hillary clinton to testify under oath at

least twice under e-mails and meanwhile the a.p. is saying they will sue. and saying that congress may have an option to forcibly seize the e-mail server. >> let me get to the heart of the matter moving forward. are you going to be taking steps to compel her to hand over the server? >> well, our committee doesn't have the power under our rules. we don't have the power to seize a personal property like that. the house as a whole is frank leanne open constitutional question whether or not the house as a whole has that legal authority. the house as a whole may have the authority to seize personal property. my committee does not. >> and later today, the house oversight committee prepared to subpoena clinton for electronic access to her e-mails when asked

if that includes access to her deleted e-mails, a spokesperson told "hardball," we want the content on the server. robert gibbs, what do you make of the way that the clintons are handling this, hillary clinton in particular and her people? she seems to be good at answering the questions from last week but not this week. she doesn't make herself available for the surprise question. >> waiting eight days to say what they said yesterday was startling to democrats. i doubt there was anything said yesterday that couldn't have been said last wednesday or thursday or friday and put a little bit of this story to bed a lot earlier. i think not having the apparatus of a campaign, even though everybody on the planet knows she's a candidate for president, i think hurt her in this instance and i think they also didn't understand who the stakeholders were in this and that is the media. the media was vested rightly, i think, in asking serious questions and they had surrogates on tv actually making it seem as if it was republicans pushing these questions and i

think in many ways that emboldens the media. >> and then there was a conflict. i mean, i'm not going to knit pick this but there was a conflict. last week she tweeted that the state department released the e-mails and now we learn that she destroyed 30,000 of them. how could they release 30,000 e-mails that she destroyed. rolling disclosure is not even minded. >> that was a huge disclosure and she made it herself, that half of the stuff would have been available to her or to anyone else to look through is gone. >> why would she say that if it was already gone? >> she meant the part that she herself determined was work related and that's going to be, i think, the largest question dogging her going forward, is should she have been the arbiter or her lawyers or whoever she deputized to do it, she owned the server, therefore, she owned the work product on it. they made that decision before

the state department or anybody, any outside lawyer had a chance to take a look at it. >> kelly, i know your hat is to the right but i want to ask you one bit of advice if you were hillary. i think she's in a real problem here. >> yes. >> hobson's choice. if she doesn't leave the server out, this will die in a couple of weeks, maybe be completely dead. the server is mine, maybe get rid of it, bury it somewhere. the other question is, if she does release it with the 30,000 e-mails and i don't believe they are about her and her husband fairness, a legitimate thing, she's running potentially a candidacy for presidency and while she's secretary of state, i assume she was keeping up with her people all around the country, just keeping up, how is

that kid doing at stanford? can i help you with this when we get to l.a. this weekend? just regular keeping up fence-mending stuff. does she want that out? >> no, she doesn't want that out? >> or is it better to stonewall saying you're not getting near my server? >> as a republican and a conservative at that, i don't want the first lady embarrassed. i don't want secretary clinton embarrassed as any of us would be if you disclosed personal e-mails but i think yesterday she didn't do herself much good in that regard and i don't know if it would go away if she put the server out there because a lot of my democratic friends were shocked to see how unprepared she was and uninspiring and they are worried about the political implications here, reading from a binder and even then flubbing her lines. i believe jim webb is --

>> she's 86%. i've never seen it at 86%. >> because nobody would dare go up against her. but there's a lot -- as you see now in these reports, there's a lot of chatter and her whole claim, vast conspiracy, they are not part of the conspiracy and i think a lot of soul-searching democrats, like robert gibbs, finds this highly unusual and what she did yesterday could have been done eight days ago, i think there are a lot of democrats soul searching saying, is this all we've got? >> we're not impressed with yesterday's performance, the front page headline reads

"hillary out of practice in the media's glare" and "go to hell" and that was her to us, i guess. and "clinton alt delete" and "deleter of the free world." actually, it's clever but i don't think it's that harmful. basically, hillary clinton, like bill clinton, stays mentally healthy by realizing there's 30% of the country that don't like them. there's no sense worrying about them. they'll get up in the morning hating the clintons. nothing she does is going to change their view. work the 70% that is either for her or open-minded and they are not going to go to bed thinking, i can't believe hillary won't let me see her e-mail. >> it was quite the scene there.

>> it looked like the academy awards red carpet. >> but it probably did not change the minds of that 30% and it shouldn't change the minds of the -- i don't know what it is, 30% who are absolutely die-hard hillary supporters on the other side and almost no matter what she says or is said about her would make any difference. she's really hitting for a middle section of america that we don't yet know how -- >> yes, we do. we do know what they think. >> the reference to the funeral and the daughter, the wedding and the reference to yoga, was that an attempt to connect with people and their lives? >> probably. it could have been an attempt to humanize the part of the story that she wants -- she wanted to make the point that, you know, i'm a person, i'm a normal person who has a yoga routine and i don't really want that out and you had wouldn't either. >> kelly, does that make sense to you? >> i think it does.

it's what everybody else has on their personal e-mail. the 30 to 70% thing, i think what -- i think there's a decision that was made to the convenience of carrying only one device. the flip side of that is the inconvenience of at some point dealing with these questions and they decided the convenience greatly exceeded the inconvenience of having to deal with these questions. they've made the bet that this isn't going to be a voting issue. they've made the bet that -- >> that they can keep their privacy, in other words? >> yes. and that there weren't be enough that accumulates that makes the conspiracy and nontransparency something that she ultimately has to deal with. >> kelly, i was hearing some unpleasant groanings from you. >> look, here's the implication from yesterday. she's trying to connect with real people and uses the yoga and funeral and wedding references, as you suggested, as a way to connect.

goodness, she's been in the public eye for at least 25 years and she's trying to show herself as authentic and likable now. i think that's problematic for the front-runner and the would-be nominee for the democratic party. it was on full display yesterday that she lacks her husband's political gifts and lacks the optimism and forward looking hope and change that senator obama was able to convert into a two-term presidency. i can't believe that smart people in the party like robert gibbs are going to allow the transformational legacy of switching the democratic party to -- back to the future is a great movie. it's a terrible governing philosophy. >> remember when obama was in trouble, people said i really like hillary better. and now the republicans are saying now that hillary is up there, i like bill a lot more than hillary. it's always the one not at bat. >> the one thing that unified democrats around the president is hillary and the one thing

that will unify democrats around hillary is the president. >> you have to deal with your managing editors and assistant managing editors and all of that, is there going to be a story here in the next couple of weeks on the e-mails or do you see it continuing? >> definitely continuing. there will be in addition to the question that i raised earlier, should she have been the arbiter and there will be questions about the mechanics of this. i mean, were those e-mails all actually deleted? who did all of that? did she actually -- >> are the departments still going up against the main street press? >> yeah, we can take it. >> this is not new. anyway, thank you. if you have a dog, you have to bark. thank you. anne gearan, kellyanne conway, robert gibbs.

president obama's nuclear talks are not just getting blasted by the left. conservatives are criticizing it, too and they should be criticizing it. john kerry says the president already has the authority he needs. he wants a unified front from the congress. will this congress give it to him? and first republican peter king trashes ted cruz saying they both make lousy presidents. why i love peter sometimes. and early battle among 2016 front runners, jeb bush and scott walker have the knives out for each other. isn't that interesting? i guess that the bushes know that walker is riding high in the polls. finally, the lucky number that republicans have gotten their hands on. 47. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

you hired someone to clean the gutters?

a aa

aa. ds ds. >> welcome back to hard ball. 47 republican senators sent a letter to iran trying to derail push back. the current secretary of state john kerry also blasted the letter. here he sx.

>> my reaction to the letter was utter disbelief. during my 29 years here in the senate i never heard of nor heard it being proposed anything comparable to this when it says congress can modify the terms of an agreement. they don't have the right to modify executive between executive leaders between countries. >> he was cut off after several minutes. >> mr. secretary i know this is a well-written speech -- but. >> this is not a speech. >>ly say, i didn't sign the letter but i've very disappointed you've gone back on your statement, that any

agreement must past from congress. >> do say we shouldn't be communicating is nonsense members of congress every single day communicate with members of other countries. >> i'm not happy being lectured about the constitution this is an administration that has trampled the constitution on many terms. i sent the message but it is it to president obama. we want you to obey the law and understand the separation of powers. >> senator chris murphy asked about that question about iran. thank you for joining us. it was written that 47 senators were acting like children who were at a school fair trying to

dunk the principal. did you buy the story. >> i think a lot of the senators really do want to derail negotiations. i think people like tom cotton only see american policy through a military lens and think only way to do it is to bomb them. many of us are worried about that past. the united states does not have the power or responsibility to approve executive agreements. there's been thousands of agreements by this president and other presidents without congress weighing in. a lot of it is just about politics about republicans trying to continually blowup whatever the president is trying to do internationally. >> i could understand where they want to vote on something, i'm

always pushing on that. why do they want to blow it up before there is a deal. >> this is a key point and maybe where kerry was off kilter congress does have the ability to weigh in on this deal. the plezresident will need to waive sanctions before congress repeals them. congress does redeserve the ability once the deal is on the fabl in order to do something about it. >> sure. >> but it is beyond me as to why they are trying to stop this deal from getting to congress in the first place. >> beyond you? come on you do have a guess why they do this. could it be they are afraid the country will be satisfied when they say this is the best option on the table. why would they fear its

culmination if they think will be unacceptable to the american people. they don't want that to happen. >> that's what i'm saying. this is political and about frustrating anything the president is trying to do. i think it say group of people who believe diplomacy is weakness and the only way to work in the world is to drop bombs in last jeers. we better be careful about consequences of negotiations failing. >> who is scary senator kerr or john cotton. >> unfortunately there are too

few people like senator corker who are willing to be judicious about big ticket issues. >> thank you very much for joining us. >> thanks. >> secretary kerry also suggested the strategy against isis was to reach a deal with iran. >> i believe much of our strategy with regards to isis is driven by a desire not to step away from the negotiations. >> the facts totally counter dictionary that -- it is silly to presume we will allow them to get a nuclear weapon. >> i believe our military strategy is influenced.

>> not in the least. there's no consideration whatsoever. >> there you get. getting complicated there. rubio rubio, i don't get it. what is your view? 47 is an unlucky number with the republicans. >> i thought the same thing. >> did you think it too. >> yes. this number is a curse. it's a curse. absolutely. i would disagree with the senator that the only option for the republicans is to bomb. but i do think my reaction to this was, what good does it do? we should always do thing that's are good for our goals and for our country and i feel this made us look silly and embarrassed for those 47 who signed. it under mines the president.

it is basically saying you're writing a letter to the ayotolla i mean, come on you're probably on the wrong team. if they did want to get the message to sect kerry and the president than by all means write the letter to them. take a full page ad in the new york times or the washington post. >> why do you think rand paul was unusually chicken. he is usually gutsy. he said i signed it but i was sending it really to president obama. no he wasn't he was sending the letter to a foreign government. you can't have your own foreign policy. >> i can't speak for why he did this. i suspect the comment that he was speaking to our leaders was to back it up just a tad. >> i don't like the word push back. >> yeah we need another one.

>> chickened out. thank you for your sublime note here. >> up next we have much more.

. welcome back to hard ball. there's been some success today in the fight against isis. iraq security forces and shiite forces broke defensive lines around tikrit. it come as execution video showing the murder of someone isis says was a spy for israel. his family strongly denies it. the shooting is carried out bay what appears to be a child. mean wheel, in washington the right wing says the administration language is

restrictive and the left says it's too open-ended. consecutive kerry says authorization wasn't even required. >> the president has authority to act against isil but a clear and formal expression of this congress's backing at this moment in time would dispel doubt that might exist anywhere that americans are unite in this effort. >> joined now by analysts, gentleman, thank you. hello everybody i'm betty, swre breaking news out of ferguson missouri. two police officers have been shot outside the ferguson police department. want to talk to bradley,

freelance journalist what have you seen. >> flight the streets are . >> right now the streets are blocked off in front of the police station and at the fire station. earlier gunshots rang out towards the line of officers who were lined up in front of the police department. we saw at least one cop shot physically and obviously another cop came out. >> so you say the shots came from a hill at the top of the street. what's on that hill? is there an apartment complex or an open field? >> i wish i could give you the name of the street. there's a street next to a complex, it's a residential street that leads right in front of the fire department. it's a hill. and the gunshots were coming at

the top of that hill. you couldn't see who was shooting it because it was so dark but you saw the muzzle fire coming towards the police officers. >> how far away is that hill? how long is the distance of that shot? >> i want to say at least 500 to 700 feet, 700 at least that. >> this person would have to be a pretty good shot to hit two police officers at that distance, would you say. >> right i'm thinking it was more so shooting towards the officers, not sure if it was aiming towards anyone draektly but at least four shots fired and two made their marks. >> we are understanding that two police officers have been shot. one in fact was shot in the face. again we do not know. we have not confirm the the extent of the injuries. we understand this occurred as protests were taking place.

describe the scene. >> the protests started tonight around 8:00 p.m. with about 170 people out total and about 50 cops around ferguson area county ferguson obviously and different police departments. the protests were dieing down it was around 12:15 so half of the protesters left half of the police officers already left everyone was trying to leave and this happened and so it sparked up another long night for us. >> so you don't suspect just by way of the description that you're telling us that this person or whoever fired these shots was involve in that protest because this was a distance away. >> this was not -- two people. it was definitely not protest

related because the protest itself was actually dieing down and the people who did it were not part of it. they were at the top of the street far from the protest. it was totally unrelated. >> you mentioned there were 50 officers there during that protest, some from the police department and others from different jurisdictions, have you seen if these two officers were indeed from the ferguson police department. >> if my memory serves correct, i do not believe it was ferguson police officers. >> how do you know that. >> the color of the uniform. it was darker blue or black uniform. i can't 100% say that for sure but it was not a ferguson police

officer i saw. >> we're trying to get clarification whether these officers were indeed with ferguson police department or other jurisdictions, nonetheless they were police officers. i'm getting in media reports, lieutenant al doesn't believe they were from his police department. once shots were fired what happened/ happened/. >> people hit the ground really fast, the protesters scattered a little bit, got behind cars some of them left. the police officers instantly got up and got their rifles out of their karz and put more protective gear on and took cover just to make sure everything was fine. >> okay.

bradley rayford, stay with us, we're going to get some information and get more from you. stay here for the latest.

welcome back everybody. we're here with breaking news out of ferguson missouri. there's not only reports but confirmation that shots have been fired outside the ferguson police department and two officers have indeed been hit, the extent of those injuries are not known at this hour. we are continuing to follow this story very closely. i want to bring in former agent and hoft age investigator.

a journalist is saying the shots came from the hill about 700 feet away from the police department. what does that tell you about the person who fired the shots. >> like the reporter said he wasn't appearing to be part of the group who was protesting in front of the police department. that was about to be through. someone was up 500 to 700 feet away, it's a pretty good distance away to fire and hit two officers, one in the face. we don't know their condition. we don't know how seriously they have been hurt. sounds awfully bad when you're hit in the face. we don't know the extent of those injuries. could it be a rifle shot which would obviously make it even more serious. could it be shotgun pellets.

could it be a pistol shot. we don't know the number of shots fired. was it just a couple. was it a string of shots. that remains to be found out. >> local media vortexingreporting that the shots were fired often a shot on the hill and also police units and crime scene technicians are on that hill. we are still trying to verify all of this. does this tell us that this was someone who was very skilled when it comes to the shooter in this? >> that's going to depend on the weapon. was it someone with a long gun or someone who had just enough tliegt to take a pistol and fire at a line of police officers. if there's a line of police officers with 50 to 100 in a line and you're tieblable to see it

and fire at it the chances of hitting someone would be pretty good without you being a great marksman. also could be a rifle shot. when we see what the officer's injuries are, what the sounds of the reports are might give us a little more. the police around the house could they have locked the shooter in the house or could they have escaped and the shooter was shooting from inside a window in the house. >> right a lot of questions. here's what we do know we do know that there were some protests taking place outside the police department wednesday evening and those protests were following the resignation of police chief thomas jackson who said earlier wednesday that he would resign march 19th this

following the scathing doj report of the police department being racially bias in its pleasing. with that in mind there were protests taking place there. and police in riot gear also out there. give us a clue as to what kind of protection these officers might have had. >> normally they have been in standard rival gear civil disturbance gear we call it, which is helmets shields and sometimes leg guards not outfitted for shootouts but rather civil disturbance like they had been encountering there, like had been the norm in ferguson when citizens are protesting the police action there. they wouldn't be equipped necessarily like a swat team

which would have heavy vests, keplar helmets, long hoods prepare to fire rifle afact it would be between patrol officers and swat officers. they could be shot and let's hope they are okay let's hope these officers are not critically or severely injured. we've yet to hear their condition. they are out there got to endure a lot of yelling and screaming and they are prepared for that but when the firearms come out it changes the complexion because now they have to go out and change their gear and try to locate and apprehend the shooter. >> i want to talk again to bradley rayford a freelance journalist and he was on the ground as all of this took

place. set the scene for us. how long ago did these shots happen and describe what you saw and heard. >> actually i was around 1200:05 at the time. right now they have the streets blocked off interviewing some of the protesters that were on the scene. there are report that's they confiscated a live cellphone for evidence because she might have captured the shooting. they are trying to put the story together for the investigation right now. >> that's a good point with the cellphone video especially with protesters demonstrating and officers in riot gear of course you will have folks recording what is happening.

that could be crucial information to give an indication where these shots came from and with forensic could help put the pieces together if you will. take me back to the moment when all of this happened. you were on the ground. describe how it went down. >> it was definitely coming down. there were a few tense moments tonight. the protests started around 8:00 p.m. the police arrested about three or four people but it was dieing down around 12:00 in the morning. people have work tomorrow. so most of the protesters left so only a fraction of the amount of people that there were originally. and myself a journalist from the nbc crew was next to me a photographer a reporter and a

producer we were having a conversation about if we wanted to leave or not and as we were having the conversation we hear what sounded like what was a firework and we look up all at the same time and we see two or three more muzzle fires from the top of the hill. >> i'm going to have to interrupt you and get a break and come back to you. stay right there. you're following breaking news right here on msnbc. you wouldn't expect an insurance company to show you their rates and their competitors' rates but that's precisely what we do. going up! nope, coming down. and if you switch to progressive today you could save an average of over 500 bucks. stop it. so call me today at the number below. or is it above? dismount! oh, and he sticks the landing!

welcome back everybody. we are following breaking news out the ferguson mississippi ms. we understand that two police officers have been shot. the police department is confirming two st. louis police officers were shot shortly after midnight local time. i want to bring in bradley rayford a freelance journalist who was on the scene when the shots rang out. give us an indication where the shots came from. >> the shots came from, from the top of the street the street

name is tiffin avenue in ferguson right across from the ferguson police department. right now there's a police department up here. >> what's up there? is it a building? a house? apartment complex. >> it's a residential street. there's homes at the top of the hill. as the atf agent was speaking earlier, he was speaking about how it was easy for a person to shoot the officers from there. the officers were lined up against the police department and they were basically sitting ducks for anyone who wanted to do harm to them. >> so the officers were lined up in their riot gear and your words were basically sitting ducks is that what i just heard. >> basically. how the shots rang out, as long

as you aim towards them someone was going to get hit. >> was there any altercation where perhaps someone was upset and went home and got their gun. are you hearing any indication as to who this shooter might be. >> no idea who the shooter might be could be. it could be anybody. either he or she got away. the police were not wearing about catching them they were worried about catching cover. it is quite possible that he shot the gun, got in the car and sped away and got off a distance. the cops were worried about taking cover and tending to the injured officers. >> that's a really good point. there were reports that police indeed were up on that hill doing their investigative work but good point it doesn't necessarily mean the shots came from any of the homes in that

residential area it could be someone in a vehicle who got out, took a few shots and drove off. >> it definitely did come from that area. where the cops are now, definitely came from that i that area. >> when the shots were fired, i imagine people got on the ground trying to avoid getting injured? >> i wouldn't say it was noisy but it wasn't quiet. but it got silent when the gunshots went out. when people realize what did the gunshots were. it got silent and all you heard was police officers having their shields bumping the ground and getting out rifles and telling people to take cover. >> how many shots did you hear? >> at least four shots, at least four shots i heard. >> okay. at least four. >> myself and another gentleman saw the muzzle fire as well. at least four shots. >> at least four shots up on a hill that is 500 to 700 feet

away. all right. bradley, i want you to stand by and we will come back to you with more information xg two police officers have been shot in ferguson, missouri. we will have much more right here on msnbc. don't go away. one day, it started to rain and rain. water got inside and ruined everybody's everythings. the house thought she let the family down. but the family just didn't think a flood could ever happen. the reality is floods do happen. protect what matters. get flood insurance. call the number on your screen to learn more.

welcome back everybody. we are following breaking news outside of ferguson, missouri. just moments ago two police officers have been hit. one was shot in the face those two police officers from the st. louis county police department. of course we will get more information on this as it comes into the news room. i want to bring in former atf special agent. jim, you have been watching all of this play out overnight. give us an indication what your first thoughts are when you hear police officers were shot outside of the police department. >> well first concern obviously

is for the officers what's their condition, are they going to be okay, how seriously are they hurt. secondly, what's the status of the officers shooter or shooters? because you don't want this to happen again, and you want them to be caught as quick as you can. the reporter the freelance reporter there told you that the shots didn't appear to come from the group of protesters that was obviously disbanding but rather it came from a house on the hill 5 to 700 feet away from where the officers were. you know, like he described and like we discussed, they're in line for a civil disturbance. and of course there's probably lights behind it street lights. they're visible, in ambient street light. so someone who was shooting officers has a very good chance of hitting them.