♪ we're gonna pop around the clock tonight. ♪ pop in new tide pods plus febreze a 4 in 1 detergent that cleans brightens and fights stains. now with 24-hour freshness. all right. we're following breaking news this morning out of ferguson, my vurry, where just hours after the city's police chief resigned two police officers were shot during protests outside the ferguson police department. the officers were taken to a nearby hospital in serious condition. they're not identified at this point, but there is some

information about them. one is a 41-year-old st. louis county police officer who is a 14-year law enforcement veteran. the other, 32 years old from webster gross police department. police officer who has been with the department for five years. here is st. louis police chief, jonless jon belmar earlier this morning. >> several shots were fired. at least three. two officers were shot. st. louis county officer was struck in the shoulder. webster gross police officer was struck in the face. we have had an occasion to be involved in many of the events in ferguson since the -- since michael brown was killed. and i think we've been very fortunate as we've moved forward not to have similar instances like this happen to us. but when we have seen in law enforcement that this is a very very very dangerous environment for the officers to work in regarding the amount of gunfire that we have experienced up

there. now, this evening the only shots that we were aware of were the shots taken from across the street. in other words, these police officers were standing there and they were shot. just because they were police officers. >> we've got the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton with us president of national urban league onset as well. we want to get to -- >> we have a lot of news to cover. >> jennifer roller on the scene all night long. jennifer, describe what you saw. >> well, the protests had started a little after 8:00. fairly routine as protests go chanting and blocking traffic and back and forth with police across the street facing off. pretty uneventful. there were lots of people that were not involved in the protests. it was a very warm evening. people out socializing behind them watching. semi participating, but it was

just about to break up. people were starting to filter out, some of the policemen were leaving. it was a couple minutes after midnight and all of a sudden pop, pop, pop. three or four shots very loud. at first i thought it was fireworks. and then when everyone hit the ground and the police yelled get down get down get down and funs were drawn, it was very real and very scary. and me and my crew randy tankersly and ken, ducked down behind this three-foot brick wall between the fire department -- the police department where we had been standing and we were right next to the police officer and we heard them saying is it one down or two down? and somebody said there were two down. and my cameraman, randy, kept rolling, and they said seems like a long time but it was probably less than ten minutes

when they said, referring to us one other crew and one other reporter near us and we were crouched down with the police, all right, we've who t to get these people out of here referring to us. when we tell you start running along that building and get to the very back of the parking lot, as far back as you can. and it was very very tense, not knowing how badly they were hurt. the police were obviously not knowing where this is coming from or if it would happen again. so we ran back to the back of the building and then we were told to keep running and go bed hind the fire department. and then think broughtey brought the wounded police officer and the ambulance came up and he was loaded into the ambulance and took off. >> jennifer, we know it's been a very trying night for you. we're thankful that you're okay. thank you so much for being with us this morning. let's bring in right now freelance photographer bradley rayford who was actually on the

scene very nearby where the officers were shot. what can you tell us bradley, about what happened last night? >> yeah, as jennifer was stating before, it was definitely traumatic event. the protesters were actually boeing down and so the shooting was completely random and unexpected. actually, it happened definitely something none of us was expecting to happen. >> how did the police respond, bradley? >> the police, as you can imagine, of course they're on edge. you can kind of know when a cop changes from the good cop to a serious cop about what's going on. but you definitely can kind of sense they were on edge and trying to figure out and keep themselves safe or the citizens safe as well as the cops police officers. >> bradley, did you know -- i know there was some confusion initially where the shots were

being fired from some press accounts suggest it was on a hill across the street from your vantage point. can you tell where the shots were coming? >> i saw the muzzle fire from the top of the hill. >> okay. >> that's where i saw the muzzle fire coming from. and that's where the sound was coming from. >> yeah. >> bradley, it's willie geist. i want to have you about the tenor of the protests last night. a couple accounts i read from on the scene, largely celebratory that the chief had resigned but also there was a faction that still wanted ferguson to go further and ask the mayor to resign and other folks. what did it feel like last night before the shooting? >> it was definitely a celebratory feel to it. at the same time it was like also they wanted to exercise the fact that they just didn't want him just to resign, they wanted the whole ferguson administration completely. so if you're nar with the

ferguson protest they do it in ferguson protest fashion, get in the officers' face. things like that. it was a pretty tense night as far as ferguson protests goes. like i said, completely unexpected the way it ended, completely unexpected. >> bradley, thank you so much for being with us. and we're glad you're doing well. let's bring in right now al sharpton and mark moreil. this has got to be terribly frustrating for you and a lot of people who protested there peacefully, especially on a night that should have been a night of celebration. >> no doubt about it. you know just hours before the attorney for the family of michael brown, benjamin cart was on account polal tick "pol fikss

ticks nation" with any in chicago. we were commending a lot of those who had continued those protests nonviolently. and then this happens. now, we don't know whether -- we will find out later. let's be real clear. we're not saying the protesters did anything with the shooting or not. we don't know. absolutely unequivocally, no one i know involved in the protests or the brown family would condone shooting at police shooting police and these two policemen or any other violence. >> as far as you heard a lot of protesters who were quoted talking about how disappointed they were. and, in fact the protesters themselves were endangered by the shots because it wasn't just the police officers that hit the ground. it was all of the protesters around them that also fearing for their lives. >> there's a couple of things. there's a report that i su that stated that the shots did not come from the protesters. and only an investigation or an

inquiry is going to tell the truth about what happened. secondly and the police department and it's noteworthy that it was a st. louis county police department at this scene, seemed to have exercise restraint because sometimes when officers hear shots, there's a tendency to over react. it doesn't seem to be any overreaction. having said that it demonstrates that there's still tremendous need demand for change in ferguson. that people want further change. and that the resignation of the chief and the city manager are just steps towards the type of change that needs to take place. >> yeah. three officials have resigned this week. and obviously many people believe that's a great first step. >> some people believe it took a little bit too long but at least there's movement now. and definitely the spotlight is on ferguson in terms of not just what's happening in the

community, african-american community, but in the police department, what it looks like what it feels like. it will change in ferguson. but this is definitely a setback in a big way. the officers apparently in critical condition. they're alive and they were talking on the scene. but they're being treated in the hospital right now. we're going to follow those top developments throughout the morning. more information and reports from the scene and ferguson should be coming in to us. we've got other news to cover. we want to actually move to some of the other stories around the country that will lead then to a bigger conversation that we can have here on this set with this great group on the issue of race and what we don't go to oklahoma and then we'll go to alabama. we'll continue to follow the developments out of oklahoma university. of course that's where ou president david boren says he expects more students will be disciplined and possibly expelled as a result of the investigation into a video that captured a racist chant by

fraternity members. >> there are more questions this morning surrounding the origins of that chant after one of the students identified in the video said it was, quote, taught to us. snrks nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez is with us from norman oklahoma. >> for days university leaders on campus had been saying what happened on that bus does not represent the rest of the campus. now the fraternity's national leaders are pushing back hard against rumors that racism was more wide spread. sigma alpha epilson called it a horrible cancer. >> we had to cut a cancer before it infects too many more groups. brandon is sae's spokesman and said the fraternity has been unable to verify reports of similar chants at other campuses. parker rice sae member of this

video said the song was taught to us. >> when somebody says it was taught to us we know it was not the national headquarters. it wasn't even something that is -- that would be part of our history at all. >> reporter: rice said i am deeply sorry for what i did saturday night. it was wrong and reckless. i admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip but that's not an excuse. the parents of a second fraternity member in the video levi pettit also apologized. he made a horrible mistake and will live with the consequences forever. >> it's an old fraternity tradition of singing these types of songs. >> reporter: andrew was in college in sae is now an outspoken critic in greek life. >> racism is alive and well on american college campuses. >> reporter: ev is an active member in black student association and the proud sae member. >> we do not act like that. that bad behavior is not something that we represent. >> reporter: in 2013 the sae chapter at washington university in st. louis was suspended

following allegations that pledges sang racial slurs to african-american students. last year clemson university's chapter was suspended for holding a racially themed party. now at ou the growing scandal has sparked a rallying cry. the normally silent statues spoke volumes. all the fraternities members have moved out of the sae house here on campus. now the national organization is looking to kick them out permanently. joe? >> thank you so much gabe. you know al we talked a couple days ago. marc, you were here as well. talked a couple days ago about what gene robinson and marc how you look at ferguson you look at what's happened in oklahoma. i grew up in the south. i lived there for 50 years. and i never saw the type of behavior that we saw in that video. and gene was talking about how there seem to be these pockets. he talked about giving a speech in pennsylvania and he was shocked at what he heard up

there. help us understand this because we were saying a couple days ago, well, mika said we're all shaken by it. gene talked about it being alarming and ug will i. we kept asking where did this come from where did this come from, two days ago. and then of course, yesterday we go t sidetracked on another conversation. but the important question is, where does h come from? >> well, i think that many of us had bought in too quickly, us being americans, that we were in some magic post-racial time. and it didn't exist. and when people like marc and i would say, no we were called off kinds of names. and i think that when someone says we still need to deal with issues, they're not being alarmist, they're being realists and these things come back to haunt us. i'm marching with the president of the united states first african-american, across the bridge in selma 50 years later,

sunday and come back in 24 hours and we hear of another shooting by police in wisconsin and then the oklahoma tape. so you go from this mountain top experience to the reality in the valley. and i think that we got to deal with this. this does not mean we have not made a lot of progress. it does mean though we have to deal with this. >> we talked about an awful -- >> let me disobey the "morning joe" rules because yesterday's conversation, let's be real clear. there are other conversations around this that should not be confused with the conversation of race. and when mika who has been part of the discussion with civil rights leaders about lyrics and all, oprah has been part of it raises that these are teaching moments that we need to also have other discussions, don't scapegoat them like they're saying these are the reasons we're having this. let's say that we need to have all of these discussions. now, we can have the timing of it so it doesn't look like we're

blaming it. but i think that it is unfair to act like people that have been engaged in these discussions even when it was uncomfortable ought to be blamed for saying things we didn't want to say. i know you didn't want to deal with yesterday but i'm a preacher, i deal with yesterday and tomorrow. >> i didn't want to but marc was here and for anybody who knows mika and the rest of us it was very shocking because marc, al, we've all talked about this very a very long time. we have all saturday around this table for eight years. there are two americas in in the criminal justice system the america for a young black male is far worse ard harder than mitt romney my friends or mika's kids. what's thigh wretching words out of the proper context was -- >> like you i grew up in the south and came of age as a little boy when the schools were being integrated. and, you know there's a point at which you think we've gotten

past the course aspects, the use of the "n" word the overt, if you will out in the open elements of race. but that what we have never fully dealt with as a nation we never fully dealt with all of the things that go on beyond public view. the quiet conversations, the dynamics of power, the issues of structural exclusion in this country. we never really really dealt with it. we made some progress. and this the journey of america with race is always steps forward, then steps backward and it's always a test and, if you will, a battle. >> i talked to you, willie about this asked you this question because you went to vanderbilt vanderbilt, tennessee, a lot of friends from the south. as whites in the south, i

can't -- i look back over the past 50 years. i never once had a conversation in my house or heard another conversation in any of my friends' houses that ever sounded like what i heard on the oklahoma bus. when mika said we're all shaken i'm trying to figure out where does that come from? my son joey went to university of alabama, and he told me early on he heard one or two guys say some racist things and he looked at them and goes that's irony, right? you are being ironic, you are making fun of rednecks right? but it was very limited. i don't know. did you ever hear anything like this in tennessee in four years is. >> that's 20 years ago, too, by the way, for me. >> i'm 30 years ago. >> i never heard that word mainly because i wouldn't associate with people that speak that way or behave that way. let's be ronhonest, in a country of 310 million people there are people that do say these things. at a university of --

>> i got to tell you. i heard the word if i heard it once i heard it hundreds of times, i was called it as a kindergarten, first grader because there were a handful of african-americans. >> when was that? >> mid to late '60s and into the '70s. now, the other thing is is that when i had certain white friends, they also caught some heat from time to time from being friendly with me in these times. and so there was pressure among whites as to how you align or associate yourself that sometimes people don't recognize and realize. so there's always been this stretch and this struggle. that's why i say, i don't paint with broad brushes. you knowness you know, you've got to look at this in context because there

are many people of all hues who want america to turn america to get better. there are some who are holding fast to old traditions. >> you know, this reminds me actually of the sorry you talk about the late '60s, 1969 schools in mississippi were integrated. that's when i started first grade. i was in a lunch line outside meridian mississippi, northeast elementary school in meridian mississippi. my friends had dirt floors in some of the corridors and they think i'm telling stories about living in a log cabin. but i remember a young white kid saying something very racist in line. and a young teacher, maybe she was 23 24 young white teacher actually grabbing him by his ear and dragging him to the office in front of us kicking and screaming. and i've always looked back on that moment. i rarely -- i think i maybe told it one time. but that taught me when i was 5, 6 years old, okay, wait this is not acceptable behavior.

and i think we all were taught that, but unfortunately there are still some pockets of racism today. >> i think it's important we also be fair in this context. i was born in the north like willie. it happened in the north. i led marches in brooklyn where i heard the "n" word i'm talking about in the '90s where we had in benson. >> it was actually -- >> i was stabbed leading a non-violent march. every morning i get up i look at a scar on my chest while i'm shaving where i was almost killed leading a march in brooklyn. i'm not talking about mississippi. so it's not regional. and i think the telling point is that every march we had, there were whites that marched with us and there were blacks that were going on tv denouncing us saying we were causing trouble. this kid in oklahoma said we were taught this we need to see

what that means, taught by who and how? >> and how long ago, how long has this been going on. >> what led to us. >> mika final word. >> well, what i think -- we're all raising children. i think we're all trying our best here to figure out our way through this. and yesterday the conversation got real and i think some people conflated it with other things. but there's no moral equivalency between something like rap lyrics and what happened on that bus. those kids made that decision. they made that choice. and it was disgraceful, disgusting, and chilling what they were saying. that's separate conversation is only related in these stories because they were someone who was going to perform, who performed on that campus who canceled and is not going back to that campus because he's disgusted by what he saw happened and he happens to be someone who has lyrics that are questionable. and that is a separate conversation. there's no moral equivalency but there's a news connection. >> but here's a point. you know we have to -- we're an

organization that works with children, i'm raising young children. we have to teach them that offensive coarse language directed at any ethnic group, there are disparaging words that have been used for jews for irish, for italian, for gays for african-americans, latinos, are not the way we have to talk in a respectful way in 21st century america. it's not being pollyannaish, it's what we need to teach children, what we need to bring them up. i don't want my children to have to endure some of the experiences that i endured and i will work and fight, and all children, for that kind of america. and i think, you know, there's a fine line. >> i think that mika said it already. we've got to have these discussions. we do not need to try and have people because they want to take

cheap shots, fold one discussion into another. she's getting ready to have a very important woman's conference talking about leading women and what they do. you can't have that without talking about the misogyny that we're hearing in the culture now. let's be honest about this. and we can't just tell the world, let's not discuss this and discuss that or try to combine it all together. the ugliness in oklahoma needs to be dealt with. but we also reserve the right that we can say, this artist has done the right thing in oklahoma but we reserve the right to discuss these lyrics. and just like they have the right to say it we have the right to say we're going to discuss it. >> our organizations have earned the right through service to community to force the discussions. >> absolutely right. you want free speech? free speech goes both ways. i can disagree with how you use it. i'm not a bad guy or you're not a bad guy because we're having this discussion. >> you guys have been talking about it for a long time. and we'll continue this conversation. i know willie has some things to

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investigating what could be yet another embarrassing incident at the white house. two agents are reassigned in their positions this morning. bd being investigated fr allegedly crashing a government car a barricade. this incident reportedly happened march 4th after drinking at a retirement party for the agency's spokesman. nbc has confirmed one of the agents is mark conley who you see her. he's the second in command on the president's detail. the other agent has been identified as george ogilvie, senior supervisor in the washington field office. "the washington post" reporter who broke the story says officials are especially troubled because the incident

occurred during an active investigation. >> the car crash was relatively minor in the big scheme of things. they essentially ran into temporary barricades. we don't know if there's damage to the car. what we are being told essentially is these guys appeared intoxicated, were behaving erratically. again, sources are saying that they were driving essentially through a secure zone that had been cordoned off because of a suspicious package that was under investigation. >> i'm sure they did a breathalyzer, you know to confirm. >> i'm sure they did. >> a spokesman for the secret service says director joseph clancy has been briefed and asked the department of homeland security's inspector general to oversee the investigation. the spokesman adds that appropriate action will be taken if any misconduct took place. clancy replaced julia pearson who resigned as secret service director after a series of

breaches including one last fall when a man armed with a knife jumped the white house fence and made it all of the way into the east room. >> willie you would expect homer simpson to do this if he were secret service agent, get drunk and then drive a government car boo a barricade. >> we'll have to find out what the results of the breathalyzer were. >> it would be funny if these were not the guys responsible for the life of our president. if it's one isolated incident you go like that but it's one thing after another. this guy, as mika said was second in command. this is a guy who is at the side of the president. they got to fix it. it's disgusting. >> there's a culture there. and i just don't get it. >> dudley doright. >> oh, my gosh it really is. anyway what? >> so officers on duty who witnessed the incident wanted to arrest the agents and conduct sobriety tests, but the officers were ordered by a supervisor on

duty that night to let the agents go home. >> that's just not good. >> not take a breathalyzer. >> and driving. >> this should be the best police security force to the highest standards in the world. >> kind of awkward. >> even when they're not, you take a breathalyzer and you make sure that you get to the root cause of what happened. how does that supervisor justify in many way what's ends up appearing to be a cover-up by letting them go. >> and did they drive home drunk? did he let them drive home drunk? >> i don't know. it doesn't say if they drove home. let the agents go home. >> wow. all right. >> okay. >> we will find out more. still ahead, coming with an few yards of isis, our partners have incredible footage of the fight in iraq and we'll show it to you first right here on "morning joe." plus richard haass has some tough words on how the politics of iran negotiations is causing global damage. we'll be right back.

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as we've been reporting iraqi security forces and their iranian allies are closing in on isis my tants in tikrit. our partners went to the front lines of the battle there and spoke with the shiite militia men leading the fight.

>> have the americans given you any help?

>> all right. reports of iraqi forces retaking tikrit are coming from iraqi security officials right now. analysts at flash point monitoring reports from the battle lines tell us iraqi officials haven't been able to provide any proof for that claim and isis is far from admitting defeat there.

>> richard haass is with us the president of the council and foreign relations. richard, i mean iraq. so you talk about a sentence that causes clouds dark storm clouds rising over the heads of foreign policy analysts. it comes from that which is what we know iran is very good at fighting isis. this is sort of like smaller scale, the iraq/iran war in 1980. okay. who are we -- they're both our enemies. we're in the same situation here. we want isis defeated but what happens the morning after? >> that's the problem. they'll win the battle. the problem is by winning the battle the sunnis in the area go oh, my god, what we've essentially done now is taken isis who at least were sunni and shia militia and we have iran who are in control. that does not help you win the long-term battle for the hearts and minds of the sunnis. >> if the united states is not going to be involved boots on the ground and a lot of

americans and a lot of people like you and me are very concerned about that prospect is it better that iran pushes them back than letting isis take baghdad which i've been saying for months isis would be in baghdad if it weren't for iran. >> we have to understand baghdad in the south are now part of greater iran. you have -- that's what this is. >> isn't this -- isn't this what joe biden was telling us we should get in 2003 and when this shakedown so to speak, bloody shakedown cruise ends are we not going to have a shia baghdad and western iraq a kurd -- sort of a kurdistan north and the saudis and jordanians taking care of western iraq? >> slightly different than what the vice president was talking about. that was still an intact iraq where you had a decentralized country with the three sections. >> explain everybody what they're looking at right there because that's the split of the country. >> iraq is over. rest in peace. the era where you had an

attacked iraq and attacked syria is over. what you're looking at season a iraq part of it that extension of iran. you're going to ultimately have an independent kurdish state. what we're really doing now increasingly is fighting for the future of the sunni areas that go over -- they made that border irrelevant. >> richard, if great britain and other western powers divided up the middle eastern countries after world wor one actually knew where the tribes lay, isn't that how the three countryies would look anyway? listen, i'm not happy about iran being in iraq. but it is an overwhelmingly shia country. >> the shiites are going to control a large swath of that country. they're going to control the south, baghdad however was always multitraditional and that has become much more problematic. look, this is now the future. the idea that's heterogenius is now over. this is tribal. we replaced national identities

with other identities. that's what people are going to organize themselves. >> richard, we've got 30 seconds. and by me saying 30 seconds screaming in my ear saying stop stop, stop. i've got the ask you. you've goukd about how destructive that republican letter was across the world. you have worked for republican administrations and nobody would consider you a left winger by any stretch of the imagination. tell us why that republican letter was so damaging to u.s. foreign policy. >> put aside all the details of iran. it didn't take place in a vacuum, joe. we've had in the last couple years everything from the president's waffling on the syria issue to government shut dts shutdowns to the near default on debt. we've made the united states unpredictable in the world. if you're going to be great power with others depending upon you on security you have got to be reliable and predictable. what we have done is introduced a massive dose of unpredictability and unreliability over not just iran policy. you don't know i don't know

we're going to negotiate a trade agreement? are we going to be able to pass it? >> one-two of netanyahu's speech and this letter back to back. >> it's basically broken down the ability of the united states to produce a consistent foreign policy. you cannot lead the world is f. you are inconsistent. >> there's one republican who signed the letter who is now admitting there may have been a rush to judgment. this is according to politico. senator john mccain tells politico politico, it was kind of a very rapid fro cess. everybody was looking forward to getting out of town because of the snowstorm. i think we probably should have had more discussion about it given the blowblack that there is. >> i think you may have more republicans saying this same thing as well. >> i was surprised how many signed it. >> strongly oppose the policy. i've seen how these things happen. and you know what, you are sitting there and you are rushing out of town and they do throw things on your desk and you go what is this tell me quick. and sometimes you make a mistake. >> haste makes waste. >> haste makes waste and sometimes you try to do too much

too fast. rush out of town because you have a town hall meeting in arizona or whatever you're doing. i think more republicans are going to come out and probably distance themselves from this. we'll get more from you, richard. they're really screaming at me now. hillary clinton has krased the cover of "time" magazine before but never like this. we'll reveal the new issue, next on "morning joe." as the velocity of change in the world increases new players in new markets face a choice: do it fast and cheap. or do it right. for almost 90 years, we've stayed true to the belief

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welcome back to "morning joe." before hillary clinton was running the state department her top aide approached bill clinton staff over using what is now being described as his e-mail server. this is according to a new story from the "wall street journal." the paper reports uma inquired with the former president's aides and paper reports they were worried about the servers' ability to handle the additional data. and that it could become a hacking risk. in the end though they comply with the request. meanwhile, the associated press is suing the state department or

hillary clinton's e-mails and other documents. some involve public and private calendars and some material dating back as five years ago. joining us now editor of "time" magazine nancy gibbs here at w. the new cover of the magazine "the clinton way." what is the clinton way as you describe it on the cover here? >> if they had a motto etched over their mantel it surely would be that which does not kill us makes us stronger. it says always been the way they roll. we saw this through a presidency where he left office after being impeached with a popularity rating most presidents would envy. so i think the question is -- >> and then plummet we'd the mash rich pardon and then up again, up down, up down. >> i'm not suggesting this is not another fire storm but how many firestorms have we been through and they have not a way of emerging not only uncovered but is this going to work for her the way it has worked over and over again in the past or has something changed either in

the electoral climate or the voters' appetite for this kind of drama that going to change? >> willie there's this sort of -- it's almost a find a way to make themselves a victim in it all. and at some point firestorm after firestorm, at some point it's you. it's not us. and b i just wonder if we're at that point. >> you sort of anticipate mid next question which is something we've been talking about. does their bunker approach and sending out emissaries on their behalf to attack the journalists and attack the story, does that still work in this media climate? does it work the way it worked in 1982? >> combination of sort of stonewalling and indignation has been successful approximately it is a completely different climate. every single person they encounter now has a camera in their hands at all times. i don't think just because it has worked before necessarily will again. but again, we have watched this

couple on stage for so many years that i'm very skeptical now, every time one of these issues erupts that oh, this is going to be the one that changes everything. >> oh, my gosh if i had a dime for every time i heard a republican saying guess what we found out about bill clinton. but reverend you know both of them. you've been around both of them before. some people that know them both have suggested that bill clinton loves the fight. he gets stronger when he's backed into the corner and he relishes the fight. not so with hillary. >> no, i think -- i think clinton -- bill clinton, does love the fight. i think that hillary is a much more policy driven big pictureern p. not that he's not one with a strong intellect. i think one of the things that has led to their survival is a lot of the firestorms there was not fire there. there was more smoke than sfirfire. i think what nancy raises it is a much different media climate

now. i think what we're going to see and what i'm seeing from this article is the question is raised. and this new climate of twitter and all, you are dealing with a total different landscape now that you can't manage you can't bob and weave. i don't know that they are aept to this as they have been in the past. maybe they are better than we think. i think that's what you're asking. >> reverend we want to interrupt you because we have a picture we want to show everybody. >> you've seen it on the cover of some newspapers already. pretty remarkable photograph. rev, if you look closely, there you are over the president's left shoulder walking across the edmund petis bridge in selma. >> it was a sensation a moment because this is the 50th anniversary where they were beat beaten on that bridge and now we're walking across the bridge. the president of the naacp and i were standing right behind the president and his family and

amelia boycon who is on that bridge 50 years before. john lewis was the president's left and first lady's right and her and we're right behind her. i couldn't describe it. all i could think about was my mother born and raised in dothan, alabama. what she would be thinking if she saw me walking with the first black president across the bridge they were beaten 50 years before. >> the new issue of time"time" magazine is out now. nancy gibbs, thank you very much. coming up former governor and possible 2016 candidate martin o'malley joins us live right here on "morning joe." ♪ nineteen years ago, we thought "wow, how is there no way to tell the good from the bad?" so we gave people the power of the review. and now angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. you can easily buy and schedule services from top-rated providers. conveniently stay up to date on progress. and effortlessly turn your photos into finished projects with our angie's list app.

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coming up at the top of the hour, two officers are fighting for their lives after being shot during a protest in ferguson. the latest on their conditions and the search for suspects. plus what happened inside one mcdonald's that went viral after being recorded? the outrage this morning that no one did anything to stop it. we're back in a moment. the real question that needs to be asked is "what is it that we can do that is impactful?" what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. it used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, that's what i'd like to do.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. the rev remembered al sharpton is still with us. joining the table is trymaine lee and in washington, host and managing editor of tv one's "news one now" roland martin. we're following breaking news from ferguson missouri. around midnight last night just hours after the city's police chief resigned two police officers were shot during what had been peaceful protests outside ferguson police headquarters headquarters. this video shows the immediate aftermath. one of the officers is 4 is years old from the st. louis county displept on the force for 14 years. the other, 32-year-old, is from webster groves, which is a 14-mile drive from ferguson. he's a five-year veteran. st. louis police said both men are in serious condition but their injuries are not life

threatening. >> tre may, onin, a lot of people hopeful after eric holder and the justice department came out with very strong findings and some forced resignations that would turn the corner here. what can you tell us? >> it couldn't come at a more koch my indicated time. just as a new chapter is beginning and folks are seeing restructuring of the process and hope towards reconciliation. this only complicates matters. >> can you tell us what it is about ferguson missouri? and i'm sure there are other towns and cities like that. this is a small town that has been at the center of american consciousness since mid summer. what is it about ferguson? >> that's the point. it's not unlike many of the places across the country. go to sanford, florida, camden new jersey, oakland, find the same conditions. i think in the smaller communities where the thumb of the local authority has been pressed on the community for so

long and there doesn't seem to be much outlet and no one seems to be listening president at least from the doj report this has been going on unchecked so long. this tinder box waiting to explode and, quite frankly, young people who have no access to quality education and health care and the myriad of issues that we're talking about, they have no other outlet. >> reverend al do you think that the racial makeup of the police department in ferguson had something to do with the problems that we've seen there? >> absolutely. >> okay. >> because i don't think you have a lot of the police department that understands the type of culture, the environment that they're working with? >> exactly. >> i think it's very important as we said last hour we don't know where these gunshots came from. >> we don't. >> i think there has always been different elements. i was called the day michael brown was shot by his family. i was there within 72 hours. from day one there were those that believed in protests and the family wanting to do it in a

very respectful way. then there were those who were just angry. then you have outsiders that come in that want to exploit it, that want want to use. different ways for different reasons. we don't know if any of these factions had anything to do with the shooting. but there's always been this kind of combination of conflicting strategies. >> i'm wondering what kind of studies are out there and what are we looking at in terms of other police departments that may have this same imbalance. that was a terrible eventuating to happen when you looked at the makeup of the police department and the makeup of the community. how many fergusons are out there? >> a lot. i think when you look at the surrounding areas even you seem the same imbalance. one city we saw a shooting they had even been cited for discrimination in that police department and nothing happened. so i think that tremain is

right. here we saw the justis department come with this report something that would not have happened had we not done what we did and especially the young activists that kept it going. now you get this. whether it's connected or not, we can be irresponsible to say that it is but it certainly takes away from the step forward that all of us felt was possible when the report came out. >> so roland what is -- what do you believe, looking at all of this, what do you believe is the difference between ferguson and the reaction to a tragedy in ferguson compared to staten island and the reaction largely peaceful fulful reaction in staten island or now in madison which has been for the most part peaceful. what's the difference? what are these cities doing wrong and what is ferguson not doing right? >> first of all, the reaction from public officials plays a critical role. the reaction from police. keep in mind michael brown was shot and killed on a saturday. the police failed to give us a

lot of information. the community was saying what's going on. then you had sunday then you had sort of this confrontation. how leadership responds plays a critical role. so you saw where other mayors other leaders came out. but here's also the difference. staten island is largely a conservative republican enclave. you don't have a significant african-american population. now you look at if ergferguson. you factor in other things we see. police forfeiture, you have a powder keg that's there. leadership plays a role. when people do not trust what leaders are saying. the police chief in ferguson failed misablyerably that entire week. they failed the community. they failed to lead. that's why the mayor of ferguson must also resign because the people can't trust him to lead. there was a moment when he had

the opportunity to do it he failed to do so. >> we should pause to remind people something that rev said last hour. all this context and backdrop is important but in no way explain or excuses what happened last night. obviously thinking first and foremost about these two officers. what do you think changes the dynamic in ferguson? this isn't something that happened overnight and not something that will be solved overnight. if you get rid of the city manager and police chief and maybe the mayor, will things be different in ferguson? >> those dynamics need to be addressed. folks hope by switching tout leadership and key players who essentially were lording over this machine that was full of schemes and collusion between the courts and police they need to address those key players. but in the report they found piles of documents and reports unchecked by supervisors. supervisors never knew what went wrong during a particular arrest or not. you can't even course correct and address it on the ground. folks are waiting for the consent decree will that come will there be a federal monitor,

will there be a dismantling of the police department and then taken over by the county police? from an institutional perspective those cogs that need to be swapped out folks are waiting to see what they might do. >> it's a start. >> as willie said certainly there are a lot more questions this morning than answers about who the shooter was and also obviously the two officers what their condition is. we're obviously going to be following that closely. we certainly our thoughts and prayers are with them and their family. we will continue to follow that and let you know as soon as we hear something about their condition, we'll let you know. we're also following developments out of the university of oklahoma. ou president david boren says he expects more students to be disciplined and possibly expelled as a result of the investigation into a video that captured a racist chant by fraternity members. >> there are more questions this morning surrounding the origins of that chant.

after one of the students identified in it said the chant was, quote, taught to us. nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has more from norman oklahoma. gabe, good morning. >> reporter: joe, good morning. for days university leaders here on campus had been saying that what happened on that bus does not represent the rest of the campus. now the fraternity's national leaders are pushing back hard against rumors that this racism was more wide spread. cigna alpha epsilon says the racist behavior entered the chapter three to four years ago, calling it a horrible cancer. brandoning weherself is sae's national spokesman. he says the fraternity has so far unable to verify reports of similar chants at other campuses. parker rice, one of the sae members this this video said the song was taught to us. >> when somebody says it was

taught to us, we know it was not the national headquarters. it wasn't even something that would be part of our history at all. >> reporter: rice said, i am deeply sorry for what i did saturday night. it was wrong and reckless. i admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip, but that's not an excuse. the parents of a second fraternity member in the video levi pettit also apologized. he made a horrible mistake, and will live with the consequences forever. >> it's an old fraternity tradition of singing these types of songs. >> reporter: andrew in college in sae is nowen outspoken critic of greek life. >> racism is alive and well on the american college campus. especially in fraternities. >> ej is an active member of the university of cincinnati's black student association and proud sae member. >> we do not act like that. that bad behavior is not something we represent. >> reporter: in 2013 the sae chapter at washington university in st. louis was suspended following allegations that pledges sang racial slurs to

african-american students. last year clemson university's chapter was suspended for holding a racially themed party. now at ou the growing scandal has sparked a rallying cry. the normally silent statues spoke volumes. all the fraternities' members have moved out of sae house here on campus. now the national organization is looking to kick them out permanently. joe? >> thank you so much gabe. greatly appreciate it. al again, the big question mark over oklahoma. obviously this is horrifying to david boren. horrifying for a lot of people in the oklahoma community. you just wonder where it comes from. >> you wonder where it comes from. one of the students that was expelled said that we were taught this kind of -- what the chabt that they did. well, what does he mean? who taught him? how do we get to the core? and there's a record of this fraternity having problems in other chapters in other

fraternities. we've got to deal with this culture. i think the president of the university responded very quickly. i think he did the right thing. the young students leaders that came forward, the unheard group, said they're working with him. and i think that's a positive thing and i think this ugliness cannot be justified or swept over by anyone. i think we've got to keep digging down into what we're looking at here. >> roland? >> i think we got to unpack some stuff here. first of all, the chant. you can focus on the "n" word or you can deal with also the fact that the chant dealt with domestic terrorism against black people. that was lynching. okay? so you have history there. now, when he says we were taught this. what that also means is that not only was he taught but he had to memorize it which means that as a young man he had to actually accept what he was being told.

politico has a piece dealing with racism among me lennials. we have created this notion that, oh no if this generation isn't like this previous generation. in fact, that's not true. furthermore, this is what as an african-american how i see it. what happens when this man leaves ou and is now in the workforce. he's not using the "n" word in public at work but what he's possibly is doing is denying opportunities for somebody to be advanced. this thing goes far beyond being a drunk college student. this now goes into income inequally, hiring practices, discriminatory practices in corporate america, in public spaces. so we just can't simply view this as just a fraternity thing. this infects america later on in life. >> even before we deal with his possible future the fact that they can do this on the bus and not one student told them they were wrong or stop them shows this whole millennial question

of do we still have a problem? when i'm looking at the video i'm waiting for one person to even frown. there was no objection to it. and that is what we've got to confront in this country. >> it's also the glee with which they espoused those words. and it is a leap to the idea of hanging black people from trees. when you look at the old black and white photos and you see black men and women hanging that kind of strange fruit hanging from the southern trees and everyone stands around and pointing and families are smiling. it's not too far of a leap from that to this. and that's is disturbing. so often we walk around this society and culture and it's our bosses, it's the police officers, it's your manager, and you never know and you never know. and that's what's so disturbing about this. >> that's where that ang ever comes from. you're looking at people that you just don't know. that's what du bois 100 years ago talked about. this is the double life a lot of us have to lead. you just don't know. you don't know who you're dealing with.

you don't know if you're dealing with someone who is biassed and bigoted and dealing with you based on that or dealing with you you fairly. and that kind of having to negotiate that in life is where a lot of this anger comes from. it may not be justified all the time, but you have to deal with the context in which we have to live. >> that was, oh, gosh i'm going to bring a completely different conversation into this but that's why i think -- >> be careful. >> that's why i think the stop and frisk program had so many problems because it played into exactly what you're talking about. >> exactly right. because the asuchsumption was always there that we felt that you're criminalizing me. and others would say, no, we're looking for guns. but we saw people saying you're making me a criminal just because of who i am. >> roland? >> the reason i'm trying to expand this is because when you look at the study that took place a few years ago in boston if you had a black sounding name you are 50% less to actually get a call back for a job. so when we talk about this idea

of race it's not just what comes out of your mouth, it's not just a racial epitaph. it's what do you do in practice how do you view somebody? so we talk about police what the perception i see a young black man. he might be trouble. mika you bring up stop and frisk. i'm talking about when it comes to hiring housing, education, and so we must understand that when you deal with race in america it is so embedded in our society that just because we took a colored sign down does not mean that we still have a colored section of our heart. >> willie? >> this video obviously was shocking. when you hear people saying the things they were saying it stuns you. but let's not be naive enough to think a school of 30,000 people there aren't a pocket of people who think this way, who feel comfortable saying these things that in a country of 315 million people there are pockets of people who feel comfortable saying these things. often in public. this is out there. so when we talk about post racial society that's of course nonsense. we're not a post racial society. we're making progress.

>> policies where even despite what everyone's attitude can be they cannot operate in a way that would infringe upon my rights or my identity. we're saying the same thing. i think that's why we drive toward policies and legislation. that's what the civil rights movement was about. we can't do anything about people not liking us. but we can sure do something about people that don't like us deny our jobs deny our contracts, deny our police. >> i think roland i think the biggest difference is and, you know, i always -- i'm a son of the south and i always had people talking about, well, you know there's racism and bigotry in the north as well the south. i said, yeah, there is. there's no doubt about it. i've been in houses in new york where they, you know where you just look at these people and you just assume you know you just see racism. and reverend talked about benson hears. we all remember howard beach,

what happened to u youssef chased in the street and killed in the 1990s, i think it was. but isn't the difference that in the south, until the late '60s, it was institutionalized. almost like it's institutional institutionalized in ferguson right now. >> no, joe, it was institutionalized in america. >> no no no i understand that roland. hold on a second. i'm saying though because of the laws passed in '64 and '65 that you talked about the signs, you talked about the segregation. >> right. >> those walls started being broken down across a country. but institutional racism existed in the south longer than it did in the northeast. >> but actually it didn't because here's the problem. we have fooled ourselves in america. the president on saturday he mentioned in misspeech when he said that slavery drove the economy of the south but the reality is it drove the economy of the north because it was a

northern insurance companies that insured it. so the reality is our system -- economic system was based upon that. now, moving fast forward. so, yes, you have the overt signs in the south but then you had the housing practices in the north. so my point here is that you have -- >> you also had overt signs in the north because let's not forget one of the unspoken things joe, about the voting rights act is two of the counties that had to have preclearance was in new york. you know one of the reasons that a lot of us -- >> also ugliest pictures i've ever seen in my life on racism in america came in 1976 in south boston. >> that's right. >> where american flag was about to be hurled into the chest of a young black man. >> but, joe, can i show you one thing? >> one of the republicans a lot of us became so con rtroversial in the media is because we took this false image in the northeast that there's no racism rather than deal with us, they blame us. how dare you say that?

because we were living in it. it was very i understand stugnstitutional if you look at how the schools were set up and economic opportunities. they didn't have a sign because they didn't need one. they just put you in certain areas. >> let me hold this picture up again. i want everybody to look at it. and then reverend you were there. i want you to talk about the -- i want you to talk about what we're discussing right now and how it appears to be in conflict with the picture of a black president of the united states and a black attorney general celebrating selma. >> i think as we approach that -- >> how do we sift through this? >> i think as we approached that bridge and it was only like 25 of us that was with the president and his family and all that led that first way of marches, and we were overwhelmed with the emotion 50 years later,

after john lewis and after misboykinmis misboykin was beaten offen that bridge. the direct result of the the beatings and voting rights act. but then when you look at the road ahead you run right into what happened in madison, wisconsin, the very same day. what happened in oklahoma the very same weekend. so we're not there yet. i think the good news is that if it had not been for those that fought and some that lost their lives, jimmy lee jackson, we wouldn't have gotten this far. if we are not willing to pay the price and do some uncomfortable things, we will not be able to get past these challenges like ferguson today. the good news is if we can learn from what worked 50 years ago we can have 50 years from now people say, we did our job. if we just memorialize what we did, we will be reduced to stopping where we are.

>> trymaine lee and row manned martin coming up. coming up on "morning joe," exclusive interview with martin o'malley. you wouldn't do half of your daily routine. so why treat your mouth any differently? complete the job with listerine®. kill up to 99 percent of germs. and prevent plaque, early gum disease and bad breath. sfx: ahhh listerine®. power to your mouth™!

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i meant to say that. switch today and get the no mistake guarantee. comcast business. built for business. it is 23 past the hour. joining us onset for an eb cluesive interview the former governor of maryland and chairman martin o'malley. >> i can't wait for mine. >> i have presents. >> which one is for me? >> this one is for you.

this is your vineyard vines beach bag. it has the shape of maryland and the maryland blue crab on it. >> i understand the connection now. >> your very own tie. >> look at that. >> i want you wokd for vineyard vines but now i get it the shape of maryland. adorable. >> maryland and crabs. >> i love it. >> are you going to do that for all 65 70 million people that are going to be voting for you for president in november 2016? >> thank you for your nomination, joe. >> very good. now plan to make an announcement this spring, right? >> i'll make a decision this spring. as i've traveled around the country i've been struck by a couple of things. one is the phrase that people repeat all the time is we need to get things done agains a country. after 12 years of declining wages. people want executive leadership and knows how to get things done. >> how do you do that? george w. bush said hey, look what i did in texas, i worked with a democratic lieutenant government. barack obama talked about no red state or blue state. and yet we just keep dividing

more and more. how do you bring the country together? >> well, i think part of it involves making our government work again. in other words embracing openness, transparency performance measurement. one of the things i've been struck by traveling around the country is how much better people generally feel about how their cities are being run. and the fact that they actually have governments that are personally responsive that can be performance measured. a part of it is that. a part of it is healing our democracy and reining in the influence of big money. a part of it is continuing to talk with one another about the things we can only do together like wage policies that actually restore that connection between working harder and being able to get ahead. the opportunity to get ahead. >> you seem like a very nice person. right? doesn't he? >> he does. we've always liked him. sounds like a mother. >> why would you even consider this? what in the world? it's not -- you understand it is not fun. >> i know. i've been close to others who have done this. but the fact of the matter is

our problems are not going to solve themselves. many of the things that we did to disconnect the hard work the american workers from the productivity of corporations are things that we did. so these are problems we brought upon ourselves. we like like to pretend the economy blew in here on a gulf stream or jet stream but we can make better rules to restore that link between hard work and the opportunity to get ahead. >> if you had an opportunity to pass one rule that would rebuild the middle class and reverse the trend of income inequality, income inequality. i tell you what i'm hearing this not from politicians but from republicans as well as democrats as well as independents. the rich get richer, the poorer get poorer, and the middle class gets squeezed. >> one thing that would -- one thing would be no reinstate glass steagal. for 70 years we prevented banks from gambling with our money and

recking our economy and running rough shod over the common good that we share as a people and having a stable and good economy. everybody, i mean on both sides of the aisle, so many people say that we should do that and yet it remains undone and some people in my own party are holding themselves out as promoting some sort of dodd frank light. we don't want to offend anyone on wall street. so let us not talk honestly about how we can rein in this sort of excessive behavior. one of the things we haven't talked about too much is that for all of the pain from the home foreclosures and the job losses, the concentration of wealth after each of these last two busts on the stock market actually increased, in other words, while other people lost homes, the people at the top actually came out even further on top. >> awful lot of money off the bailout. >> there's a story, governor in the "new york times" today, the headline of which is "democrats see no choice but hillary clinton in 2016." true or false?

>> she's too big to fail. >> well, maybe that's the way it is today. but our history as a part is always wanting to have robust discussions about the better choices that will give our kids a better future. so i think that that's true today as well. look every year there is the -- most years there's the inevitable front-runner and that inevitable front-runner is inevitable up until he or she is no longer inevitable. i think you're going to see a robust conversation among the democratic party about how we restore middle class opportunity. >> will you be running to win and do all the things that a candidate who normally runs for president does to win, including attacking the front-runner? >> i think i learned in a student council election at gonzaga you don't get into races unless you're committed to win. i would be running to not only to win but to govern well, to make the case to the people of the country there are better choices we can make together that will make wages go up and make college more affordable for

our kids again. >> if you were president, let's try a inkt different achele. would you require your secretary of state to use the official server of the state department. >> i was wondering when we were going to get into that. >> i'm curious. would that be important to you as commander in chief? >> well, sure, it would be important to me. but more important than e-mail policies would be making our economy work getting wages to go up indexing the minimum wage raising the threshold for overtime pay making the investments that create jobs and give people a shot at giving their kids a better life. >> willie? >> dpover in we had an nbc poll out this week. we asked democratic voters who they could see themselves supporting for president. 86% said hillary clinton. 11% said martin o'malley. what can you tell democratic voters about yourself because hillary clinton -- >> am i really up to 11%? >> yes. congratulations, sir. big old 11 right there.

>> was this my mom? >> what would you tell democratic voters because hillary clinton is almost certain to run as well? why are you different from her? what's better about you than hillary clinton? >> well, i have 15 years of executive experience. a very -- in a city that at the time was one of the most violent and addicted cities in america. i was listening to the segment just earlier about law enforcement, about our fears and distrust of one another. i brought people together in order to give our city a safer and better future. as mayor we made our schools the best in the nation. for eight years in a row, even through a recession, maintained the highest median income in america and achieved a rate of job creation that was superior to that of our neighbors in virginia or pennsylvania. so i had a record of not only getting things done but doing it in a new and more modern way. >> you being here timely this morning on "the washington post" on page a2. hillary clinton doesn't have the credible challenger.

o'malley actually is a serious player with a solid record and he might we'll make a good president but he's campaigning as if he's running to be clinton's npa administrator or omb director. he may be the bruised babbitt of 2016 appeals to intellectuals. whau do you say to dana mill bank and skeptics? >> well, people inside the beltway are usually the last people to know when something is happening in iowa or in new hampshire. people in those early states take their vote very very seriously. they consider themselves to be you know the talent scouts if you will, in making that first decision about what our choices are. so we don't have any announced candidates in this race yet. anybody who has watched my history not only in governing and getting things done but in campaigning, will see that i've never run a bad race. i have never gone all out when i've gone all?

>> you definitely pivoted out of mika's question earlier and i want to come back to the question of secretary clinton and her e-mail practices. we know a lot about it including setting up a separate server she's destroyed some 30,000 e-mails that she herself has deemed personal. is there anything about what you know about this story, what she did, and about her explanations for it that gives you pause? do you think she's done anything wrong? >> i'll let you guys ask the questions that you feel compelled to ask. >> i'm asking you the question right now. >> but i don't feel compelled to answer that. she -- secretary clinton is perfectly capable of defending her own service in office. it is important though -- >> would you do that? if you were entrusted in secretary of state would you ignore the president and set up your own server? >> i think i -- i think i would rely on my people to tell me what the rules were. >> you would follow the rules? >> that's what we have done. if we had a uniform e-mail

policy across all 50 states and every county and every city and every department of the federal government, if we had that uniform e-mail policy today, none of that would make a hill of difference to people that are trying to send their kids to college or that are working harder, not making overtime and slipping further behind. those are the big issues in this race. look there are big structural changes afoot in our economy. and this is the time when we actually need people who govern us to have a framework for the future on the better choices we can make in order to make our economy function again. people don't care so much about e-mail policies. it's important that you ask. it's important that we be as open and transparent as possible. but it's not the issue that's going to restore our economy. >> but for the record willie he did say he would follow the rules. let the record state he would actually follow the rules as i would hope we all would. >> what would you say to democratic voters who are compelled to make hillary

clinton the first woman president to make history with a vote in 2016? what would you say to them? >> i think that you know i supported secretary clinton in 2008. i have a tremendous amount of admiration for her. it's natural and i think healthy and good that our party is such a diverse party, that we have such strong people to put forward on a national basis. so i think this is the way it should work. i think that any of us in the democratic party who feel we have a track record of executive experience getting things done and a better framework for the future should offer ourselves in service and then we should trust the good judgment and intelligence of the american people and their vote the do what they feel is best for themselves and their families. >> good for you. >> housekeeping. >> i'm serious. good for you. you know i've always said -- and heilemann of course is a cynic. >> i know. >> when i say good for you i always tell everybody, because they ask what's it like running,

what's it like putting your name on the ballot, i said everybody should run for office once to understand the sacrifice that politicians make. but to run for president of the united states that is so above and beyond the call of duty. so i mean it. >> thank you. stay tuned. i really appreciate you having me on. >> former governor martin o'malley. >> what where is matt grudge getting photographs of you in tight t-shirts playing guitar. >> i've been playing in a band since nifs high school. >> all right. >> unfortunately matt is finding older pictures. >> that's good stuff. i'm looking. martin o'malley thank you very much. john heilemann, stay with us please. still ahead on "morning joe," the host of cnbc's "mad money" jim cramer will be with us.

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from your desk phone to your mobile with no interruptions. i've never felt so alive. get the future of phone and the phones are free. comcast business. built for business. was utter disbelief. during my 29 years here in the senate, i never heard of nor even heard of it being proposed anything comparable to this. if i had i can guarantee you no matter what the issue and no matter who was president i would have certainly rejected it. this letter ignores more than two centuries of precedent in the conduct of american for

written policy. >> you know i thought it was bad when they shut down the government. i thought that was kind of hand fisted, you know maybe. >> here we go. the president council of foreign relations richard haass is back with us. richard, so what's next on the iran negotiations? does this sidetrack the 47 -- does the sidetrack the iran negotiations any more than democrats hanging out with ortega in nicaragua in the '80s sidetracked reagan? >> the only risk is the iranians at this point would say we don't want trust you americans to approve and geemt r agreement and that would be a gamble on their part that then they could pen the blame on us. >> but is there a chance though that they rk a chulactually -- john kerry is in a position -- i don't know. you've negotiated these things. could kerry go and like sort of shrug his shoulders to iranian

counter parts saying i'm fighting my hard liners at home, you're fighting your hard likers at home. let's get this done. >> goal is to have a framework agreement before the end of the month. i think there's still a shot of that, or a few weeks later. the real deadline is the end of june. odds are even that you come up with a agreement to put sanctions relief talking about duration, talk about inspections. i still think the odds are even. >> policy of the united states still that iran getting a nuclear weapon is not a possibility? >> absolutely that's u.s. official policy and i hope it's real. i think the real question is where do you parker on below that? what kind of a threshold are you setting and sort of confidence do you have that they're not cheating beyond that? how much time do you give yourself if iran breaks out beyond that threshold. >> richard, what are the odds that some framework is agreed upon between kerry and zarif at that level and the ayatollah

comes in and says no we don't approve any deal that takes our ability to have a nuclear weapon away? >> i don't think zarif is going to freelance here. i'm not sure how you say freelance. >> would the ayatollahs allow any deal that cripples them and their ability to get a nuclear weapon? >> if you get a deal again, it sets some threshold below nuclear weapons status. the real question is what can you accumulate under that threshold and also whether iran abides by any deal. this whole thing has a little bit of -- iran is pursuing nuclear activities that you don't need to pursue if all you want to do is -- >> unless you want a weapon. >> exactly. >> you can build -- >> you're on the record as saying you think this letter was the bad idea? >> bsabsolutely. >> put aside the question what it does to the current negotiations, isn't the real problem with this letter what it might do if the deal doesn't happen and then we have to move a discussion about trying to reup on sanctions and strengthen the sanctions with the

international community? >> any time you have a negotiation like this, if it unravels, at least 50/50 chance you want to make sure the other side is to blame because what we want to do is say ratchet up sanctions pft one of the republicans i was against the letter is i don't want people to say you americans brought it about. in some ways we're not just negotiating with iran here we're negotiating with the europeans. we want to europeans to say this is iran's fault, not american's fault that things are unraveling. this is one of the reasons this letter was ill advised. >> thank you. >> thanks. she spent 14 hours trapped upside-down in a car after an accident killed her mother. we'll have the latest on the toddler's condition when we come back. meet the world's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one natural gas producer... and we could soon become number one in oil. because hydraulic fracturing technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. supporting millions of new jobs. billions in tax revenue... and a new century of american energy security.

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thank you very much for being with us this morning. >> let me begin with you doug "the washington post" obviously,

i'm just assuming to try to. state's government at this moment to free jason? >> well, you're right. at "the washington post" we've tried to use every channel we can to get the message out being treated unfairly without iranian, against them are baseless. trying to release him. this state department has said publicly that they condemn jason's detention. and they have carried that message across at every meeting with their iranian counterparts they say. >> are there any specifics? >> specifically right now we've been working for the past two months to get jason a lawyer to

defend him against the charges. fortunately in the last fewlawyer. fortunately, we have been able to hire a lawyer. >> willie geist. what can you tell us about his wife's condition? he's been there since july. an awful long time. what is -- have you heard about the conditions underwhich he's being held? >> so for nearly the first five months he was held in solitary confinement. he's been moved out of that and now physically doing a little better. he has lost nearly 50 pounds. >> wow. >> winch the first two moss detained. he's really under a lot of psychological stress and is very disappointed by the treatment he has, and the rights that he's being deprived of just as an iranian citizen

there. >> what contact, if any, have you had with your brother? >> i haven't been able to speak to him since july 21st. >> doug, there are two other americans being held in iran. are there not? >> there are two other americans being held and then there is a third who has disappeared in iran for a number of years. so there are four people that u.s. government is talking about. hour focus at the "post" has really been on jason, of course. >> yeah. no doubt about it. >> douglas and ale, thank you very much. for more information on the petition calling for jason's immediate release go to change.org/free jason. >> we're going to continue talking about not only your brother but also the other americans held in iran. certainly over the next few weeks. when hopefully the united states government has more leverage to push for the release of your brother and other americans being unjustly held in iran.

thank you so much for being here guys. we really appreciate it. up next breaking nugz overnight as gunshots rang out during a protest in ferguson. two officers are wounded. the latest on their conditions and the investigation. plus -- cnbc's jim cramer on what's been a tough couple of days on wall street. and later, senator mark warner on the congressional debate over signing off on the war against isis. >> boy, it's going to be a packed hour ahead. >> yes, it is. every day, our teams collaborate around the world to actively uncover, discuss and debate investment opportunities. which leads to better decisions for our clients. it's a uniquely collaborative approach you won't find anywhere else. put our global active management expertise to work for you. mfs. there is no expertise without collaboration.

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police chief resigned two police officers were shot during protests outside the ferguson police department. the officers were take ton a nearby hospital in serious condition. they're not identified at this point but there is some information about them. one is a 41-year-old st. louis county police officer who is a 14-year law enforcement veteran. the other, 32 years old from webster police department. the police officer with the department for five years. here is st. louis police chief john bellmawr earlier this morning. >> several shots were fired, at least three, and two officers were struck. a st. louis county officer was struck in the shoulder and a webster groves police officer was struck in the face. >> we have had an occasion to be involved in many of the events in ferguson since the, since michael brown was killed and i think we've been very fortunate as we've moved forward not to have similar instances like this happen to us, but when we -- we

have seen in law enforcement that this is a very very very dangerous environment for the officers to work in regarding the amount of gunfire that we have experienced up there. now, this evening, the only shots we were aware of were the shots taken from across the street. in other words, these police officers were standing there, and they were shot. just because they were police officers. >> we've got the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton with us the president of national urban league mark morial on set as well. we want to get to -- >> a lot to cover. >> freelance producer on the scene all night long. describe what you saw. >> reporter: well the protest had started a little after 8:00 and was fairly routine as these protests go chanting and blocking traffic and back and forth with police across the

street facing off, but pretty uneventful. there were lots of people that were not involved in the protest. it was a very warm evening. there were people out socializing behind them watching semiparticipating, but it was just about to break up. people were starting to filter out. some of the policemen were leaving. it was a couple minutes after midnight, and all of a sudden pop, pop, pop. three or four shots, very loud. at first i thought it was fireworks, and then when everyone hit the ground and the police yelled get down get down, get down, and guns were drawn, it was very real and very scary, and me and my crew randy and ken, we durked edducked down behind this about three-foot wall behind the police department where we had been standing and we were right next to the police officers and we heard them saying, is it one down or two

down? and somebody said, there were two down, and the my cameraman randy just kept rolling and they said seemed like -- a long time, but it was probably less than ten minutes and they said referring to us one other crew and one other reporter near us and we were crouched down with the police and they said all right. we have to get these people out of here, referring to us. they said, when we tell you, start running along that building and get back to the very back of the parking lot, as far back as you can and it was very, very tense not knowing how badly they were hurt. the police obviously not knowing where this was coming from or if it would happen again so we ran back to the back of the building and then we told to keep running, and go behind the fire department, and then they brought the wounded police officer and an ambulance came up and he was loaded into the ambulance and took off.

>> yeah. well jennifer we know it's been a very trying night for you and thankful you're okay. thank you so much for being with us this morning, and let's bring in right now freelance photographer bradley rayford, actually on the scene, very nearby, where the officers were shot. what can you tell us bradley, about what happened last night? >> yes. as was stated before it was definitely a traumatic event. the protesters it was weird because the protest was actually dying down. so the shooting was completely random and unexpected action that happened. definitely something that we -- none of us were expecting to happen. >> how did the police repond bradley? >> the police, you can imagine they're on edge. you can kind of know when a cop changes from the the good cop to a serious cop an what's going on, if you know what i'm

referring to, but you definitely sense they were on edge and trying to keep themselves self the citizens self as well as the injured cop safe as well. >> i know there was confusion initially, where the shots were being fired from bradley, some press accounts suggest it was on a hill across the street from your vantage point could you tell where the shots were coming? >> i saw the muzzle fire from the top of the hill. >> okay. >> hmm. >> so that's -- that's where i saw the muzzle fire coming from, and that's where the sound was coming from so -- >> yeah. hey bradley, willie geist. i want to ask you about the tenure of the scene. largely celebratory, that the chief resigned but also that there was a faction that still wanted ferguson to go further and ask the mayor resign and some other folks. what did it feel like last night before the shooting? >> it was definitely a celebratory feel to it.

at the same time it was like also, they wanted to emphasize the fact that they just didn't want -- they wanted a whole new ferguson completely. so of course if you are familiarry the protest, protest fashion, get in the officers' face blocking off the streets things like that. a pretty textbook night as far as ferguson protests goes. like i said completely unexpected the way it ended. completely unexpected. >> no doubt about it. bradley, thank you so much for being with us and we're glad you're doing well. let's bring in right now al sharpton and mark muriel. al, let me begin with you. you know this has got to be terribly frustrating for you. and a lot of people that protested there peacefully for this long especially on a night that should have been a night of celebration? >> no doubt about it. you know, just hours before the attorney for the family of

michael brown, benjamin crunk, was on "politics nation" with me in chicago, and we were saying how the protests helped to lead to a climate where the justice department would come in in the first place in respect wouldn't have been an investigation, and we were commending a lot of those that had continued those protests non-violently and then this happens. now, we don't know whether, we will find out later, let's be real clear, we're not saying the protesters had anything to do with the shooting or not. we don't know absolutely unequivocally that i know in the protest or the brown family would condone shooting at police shooting police and hopefully these two policemen recover, or any other violence. >> in fact you heard a lot of protesters quoted talking about how disappointed they were and, in fact, the protesters themselves were endangered by these shots, because it wasn't just the police officers that hit the ground. it was all of the protesters

around them that also fearing for their lives. >> so there's a couple of things. there's a report that i saw that stated that the shots did not come from the protesters. >> right. >> and only an investigation or an inquiry is going to tell the truth about what happened. secondly and the police department and it's noteworthy that it was a st. louis county police department at the scene. seemed to have exercised restraint, because sometimes when officers hear shots, there's a tendency to overreact, and there doesn't seem to be any overreaction. having said that it demonstrates that there's still tremendous need demand for change in ferguson that people want further change and that the resignation of the chief and the city manager are just steps towards that type of change that needs to take place. >> yeah. three officials have resigned

this week and obviously many people believe that's a great first step but there needs to be more. >> some believe it took a little too long but at least there's movement and spotlight on what's happening not just in the community, african-american community, but in the police department. what it looks like what it feels like it will change in ferguson but this is definitely a setback in a bagig way. the officers apparently in critical condition, they're alive, talking on the scene but treated in the hospital right now. we'll follow those developments throughout the morning. more information and reports from the scene in ferguson should be come ing from to us. other news to cover. we want to actually move to some of the other stories around the country that will lead then to a bigger conversation that we can have here on the set with this great group on the issue of race. and why don't we go to oklahoma. then we'll go to alabama. we'll continue to follow

developments out of oklahoma university of course. where ou president david boren says he expects more students will be disciplined and possibly expelled as a result of the investigation into a video that captured a racist chant by fraternity members. >> and more questions this morning surrounding the origins of that chant after one of the students identified in the video said it was "taught to us." >> hmm. >> nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has more from norman, oklahoma. gabe, good morning. >> reporter: joe, good morning. for days university leaders here on campus have been saying that what happened on that bus does not represent the rest of the campus. now the fraternity's national leaders are pushing back hard against rumors that this racism was more widespread. ♪ they'll never be a news desk ♪ >> reporter: sae said racism entered the oklahoma chapter three to four years ago calling it a horrible cancer. >> we have to cut that cancer

before it infects too many other groups. >> reporter: sae's national spokesman says the fraternity has so far been unable to verify reports of similar chants at other campuses. parker rice one of the sae members in this video said the song was taught to us. >> when somebody says it was taught to us we know it was not the national headquarters. it wasn't even something that is is would be part of our history at all. >> reporter: rice said i am deeply sorry for what i did saturday night. it was wrong and reckless. i admit it likely was fueled by alcohol, consumed at the house before the bus trip but that's not an excuse. the parents of a second fraternity member in the video, levi pettit also apologized. he made a horrible mistake and will live with the consequences forever. >> and ole fraternity tradition singing these types of songs. >> in sae, now an outspoken critic of greek life. >> racism is and live and well in american colleges especially in fraternities. >> reporter: an active member of

the university of cincinnati's black student association and the proud sae member. >> we do not act like that and that bald behave sirior is 23409something we represent. >> reporter: in st. louis, suspended following allegations sending pledges to african-american students. last year clemson's university chapter suspended for holding a racially themed party. now at ou sparking a rallying cry, the normally silent statues spoke volumes. all the fraternities members moved out of the sae house here on campus. now the national organization is looking to kick them out permanently. joe? >> thank you so much gabe. you know al we talked a couple of days ago. mark, you were here as well. talked a couple days ago with gene robinson and mark how you look at ferguson you look at what's happened in oklahoma. i grew up in the south. i lived there for, you know 50

years. and i never saw the type of behavior that we saw in that video, and gene was talking about how there seemed to be these pockets. he talked about giving a speech in pennsylvania and he was shocked at what he heard up there. help us understand this because we were saying a couple of days ago, well mika said we're all shaken by it. gene talked about it being alarming and ugly, and we kept asking, where did this come from? where did this come from? two days ago, and then of course yesterday we get sidetracked on another conversation, but the important question is where has this come from? >> well, i think that many of us had bought in too quickly, "us" being americans that we in some magic postracial time and it didn't exist, and when people like mark and i would say, no that we were called all kinds of names, and i think that when someone says we still need to

deal with issues they're not being alarmists they're being realists and these things have come back to haunt us. i'm marching with the president of the united states first african-american, across the bridge in selma 50 years later sunday, and come back in 24 hours and we hear of another shooting by police in wisconsin and then the oklahoma tape. so you go from this mountaintop experience to the reality in the valley. and i think that we've got to deal with this. this does not mean we have not made a lot of progress. it does mean though -- we have to deal with this. >> you talk about an -- >> let me disobey the "morning joe" rules because yesterday's conversation -- let's be real clear -- there are other conversations around this that should not be confused with the conversation of race and when mika, who has been part of the discussions with civil rights leaders about lyrics and all, oprah's been part of that raises that these are teaching moments that we need to also

have other discussions. don't scapegoat them like they're saying these are the reasons we're having this. let's say that we need to have all of these discussions. now, we can have the timing of it sort of look like we're blaming it but i think that it is unfair to act like people that have been engaged in these discussions even when it was uncomfortable ought to be blamed for saying things they didn't say, and i know you didn't want to get into yesterday, but i'm a preacher. i deal with yesterday and tomorrow. >> i didn't want to but you know, mark was here and for anybody that knows mika and the rest of us very shocking because mark al we've all talked about this for a very long time all sat around this table for eight years. there are two americas and in the criminal justice system the america for a young black male especially is far worse and harder than it is for my kids or mika's kids. that's why retching words out of their proper context -- this is jarring for us. >> like you, i grew up in the

south. >> right. >> and came of age as a little boy when the schools were being integrated. and, you know there's a point at which you think we've gotten past the course aspects. the use of the n word. the overt, if you will out in the open 3 elements of race but what we have never fully dealt with as a nation never dealt with all the things that go beyond public view the quiet conversations, the dynamics of power, the issues of -- of structural ex-clusion in this country we never really really dealt with it. we made some progress and this the journey of america with race is always steps forward, then steps backward. >> right. >> and it's always a test and if you will a battle.

>> you know, i talked to you, willie, about this. asked you this question because you went to vanderbilt tennessee, a lot of friends from the south, and as whites in the south. i can't -- i look back over the past 50 years, i never once had a conversation in my house or heard another conversation in any of my friends' houses that ever sounded like what i heard on the oklahoma bus, and when mika said we're all shaken i'm trying to figure out where does that come from? now, my son joey went to the university of alabama, and he told me early on he heard one or two guys say some racist things and he looked at them and goes that's irony, right? you are being ironic? you are making fun of rednecks right? but it was very limited. i don't know. did you ever hear anything like this in tennessee. >> no. >> in four years? >> that's 22 years for me. >> and i'm 30 years ago.

>> no. i never heard that word. mainly because i wouldn't associate with people who spoke that way or acted that way. in a country, 310 million people there are people who -- >> i got to tell you, i heard the word if i heard it once i heard it hundreds of times. i was called it as a kindergartner, a first grader, because there was a handful of african-americans. >> when was that by the way? >> this was in the mid to late '60s and then into the '70s. now, the other thing is that when i had certain white friends, they also caught some heat from time to time for being friendly with me in these times. >> yeah. >> and so there was pressure among whites as to how you align or associate yourself that sometimes people don't recognize and realize. so there's always been this stretch and this struggle and

that's why i say, don't paint with broad brushes. >> right. >> you know, you've got to look at this in context, because there are many people of all hues who want america to turn america to get better and there are some who are holding fast to old traditions. >> you know this reminds me actually of the story you talk about the late '60s, early '70s, reminds me in 1969 schools in mississippi were integrated. when i started first grade, and i was in a lunch line outside meridian mississippi, northeast elementary school in meridian mississippi, some of the friends had dirt floors in the corridors and think i'm telling stories about live ing from a log cabin, but i remember a young white kid saying something very racist in line, and a young teacher, maybe she was 23 24 young white teacher actually grabbing him by his ear and dragging him to the

office in front of us kicking and screaming, and i've always looked back on that moment. i rarely -- i think i maybe told it one time but that taught me when i was 5, 6 years old, okay wait. this is not acceptable behavior. and i think we all were taught that but unfortunately, there are still some pockets of -- racism today i. think racism. >> i think it's fair, i was born in the north like willie and it happened in the north. i led marches in brooklyn where i heard the n word. >> right. >> and i'm talking about in the '90s, where we had in benson hearst wheat threw watermelons at us and i was stabbed leading a non-violent march. every morning i would get up i'd look at a scar on my chest while i'm shaving, where i was almost killed leading a march in brooklyn. i'm not talking about mississippi. so it's not regional. and i think the telling point is that every march we had, there

were whites that marched with us, and there were blacks that were going on tv denouncing us saying we were causing trouble. this kid in oklahoma said we were taught this. we need to see what that means. taught by who and how? >> and how long ago? how long has this been going on? >> what led to it? >> mika final word. >> well, what i -- we're all raising children and i think we're all trying our best here to figure out our way through this and yesterday the conversation got real and i think some people conflated it with other things but there's no moral eequivalency between something like rap lyrics and what happened on that bus. those kids made that decision they made that choice and it was disgraceful, disgusting and chilling what they were saying. that separate conversation is only related in these stories because there was someone who was going to perform who performed on that campus who cancelled, and is not going back to that campus because he's

disgusted by what he saw happened, and he happens to be someone who has lyrics that are questionable, and that is a separate conversation. there's no moral equivalency, but there's a news connection. >> yeah but here's a point. you know we have to -- we're an organization that works with children. i'm raising young children. we have to teach them that offensive, coarse language defected as any ethnic group, and there are disparaging words that have been used for jews for irish, for italian, for gays, for african-americans, for latinos, are not the way we have to talk in a respectful way in 21st century america. >> from anybody. from anybody. >> and it's not being pollyanna-ish, it's being what we need to teach children. what we need to bring them up -- i don't want my children to have to endure some of the experiences that i endured, and i will work and fight, and all

children, for that kind of america, and i think, you know it's that there's some fundamentals. >> but i think that mika said it right. we've got to have these discussions. we do not need to try and have people, because they want to take cheap shots fold one discussion into another. she's getting trod have a very important women's conference talking about leading women and what they do well you can't have that without talking about the misogyny we're hearing in the culture now. i mean, let'sen be honest about this. we can't just tell the world let's not discuss this and discuss that or try to combine it all together. the ugliness in oklahoma needs to be dealt with but we also reserve the right that we can say, this artist has done the right thing in oklahoma, but we reserve the right to discuss these lyrics. >> and our organizations have -- >> just like they have the right to say it. we have the right to say we're going to discuss it. >> and our organizations have earned the right through service to community to force the discussions. >> absolutely right. you want free speech free

speech goes both ways. i can disagree with how you use it. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll speak with senator mark warner of virginia who slammed senate republicans for trying to "blow up" nuclear negotiations with iran. >> boy that did not turn out the way they expected. >> nope. >> i am stunned, richard haass david rothcut, the criticism is widespread and from both parties. >> this was, what's the word when you're just a little bit not ready for primetime? >> just ill-advised. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> lame. helped perform 26.6 million surgeries deliver 3.7 million babies and treat 133 million e.r. patients. now congress is considering cuts which could increase wait times reduce staff, and threaten your community's health. keep the heart of america's hospitals strong. for you and your family tell congress: don't cut hospital care.

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i really admire my mother. despite what people said she bought me a sewing machine and she let me play with dolls and that was something that was kind of growing up culturally, it was quite unacceptable and she really dared to let me be different. [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain]

up next we're getting mad. >> really mad. jim cramer joins us ten years of "mad money." enraged. plus a check on the stories driving the day on wall street. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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stock exchange yesterday to celebrate the tenth anniversary of madness. cnbc "mad money." >> total, total madness. >> can you believe it's been ten years? >> no. actually it doesn't seem like a day over nine. >> jim, joining us now the host of cnbc's "mad money" jim cramer, all smiles and news and finance anchor at yahoo! bianna golodryga. congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> has it gone by quickly? >> there is a sense i feel like it's the sixth maybe the seventh. ten years makes it seem a little institutional. like you guys. you understand that. when you come to work every single day you don't understand that ten years your life has gone by. >> what a ten years it's been. the highs and lows obviously, a bull market a bear market, a collapse, a great recession and now, you know records being broken every moment and people worrying about another bubble.

>> look i think we're in a great time. we're just in a great time. that's the only way to look at it. >> okay. i'm getting you and bianna to chime in on this. give us a sense of how, about sort of a picture of the markets, drawing a very rocky week on wall street. what's going on? >> what's happening is that it's really kind of a hedge fund mutual fund issue, not a person at home. the dollar's skyrocketing that's hurting europe. it's hurting a lot -- the dollar's hurting our sales in europe hurting our sales in brazil hurting our sales in asia. what's happening is that we're worried that there's a slowdown that we're actually importing from everseas even though our country's doing great. thing wage will be bad because of the fact our goods cost too much versus theirs. it's something you don't feel if you're an american unless you go paris. you do feel it -- >> good news for tourists bad news for business. >> yes. >> first of all, congratulations, jim. i'm having a forrest gump movement. i was there when your show

launched at cnbc. there with you. one of my favorites, you would go on tour at college campuses and see the enthusiasm these students had when you would come. you talk about the individual investors not really being in this market right now. have you seen that evolve over the years? what are college students saying now? what are young people going into the workforce what are they worried about? are they investing in the market. >> they got too much student debt. i tell them listen try it anyway. i think there's been a revulsion to the stock market because it did collapse. people still don't trust it. a flash crash not long ago. people feel it's just a tough time. we're not saving enough because we don't make enough and i think people coming out of college feel they should pay down the debt. that said there's tremendous think a for stocks like facebook google tesla, and people should buy. i wish everyone had more money. listening to the great discussion at the top of your show. all i marryhear is an under

economic -- there is a sense if everyone were doing better things would be better and i still don't see the wage growth i would have expected by now. >> same question for you, to you. your question. about the. >> the wage growth? >> yeah. >> seems we sort of stagnated, jim and in two, three years ago, if somebody told you unemployment rate would dron the way it has and we've been adding 200,000, 300,000 jobs a month wouldn't you have expected the mood to be better know overall? >> people working harder are making less. that is something that makes it so the stock market is really not as much interest. people are trying to put food on the table, figure out how to be able to afford a new car, able to afford these trips, and they're not thinking whether they should be buying disney here. and i'm trying to change that because you need to augment that paycheck. it's not going to grow. you have to take that money and work with it. >> why it's harder. you don't see the administration out there, even though they're trying to tout the economic recovery, because what do people have to see for it when they get

their paycheck. >> numbers look better but a lot of people aren't feeling it and such a disconnect between wall street and main street. >> still. >> talking about a long time. isn't it sad that anytime we hear the economy's growing, so things are getting better people panic on wall street and the market goes down because the possibility of interest rates going up hurts investors. >> exactly. so jim before you go, do you wear a watch? >> yeah. i'm going to get the apple watch soon. >> of course you are. >> if i can charge it long enough. i say four hours. that means, two hours in it -- two hours not covered. >> it only lasts four hours? >> what am i going to do? i got a morning show. i got to prep for it. >> how does that -- how's that impacting the markets this week? >> ah apple is down. and that's important. apple's the biggest company ever. we need that stock to go up to take the market up. in it's the dow, too. it's really important now. >> mika one forrest gump moment already today. you know who else was forrest

gump in the beginning of "mad money." >> who? >> one noah oppenheim. >> yes, i remember noah. >> in the beginning, went off to hollywood, made a gazillion dollars, and now back at nbc. you guys need to have a party, jim. we all need to have a party. >> just e-mailed him yesterday. i love him. he understood exactly what we were about from day one and really gets the zeitgeist and finance and actually knows everything. hollywood, too. such a good guy. >> yeah, he is. >> you haven't aged one day in this past decade. >> no. looking younger! >> jim cramer. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> really great to talk to you. >> congratulations. jim will be marking ten years of "mad money" tonight 6:00. >> i can't wait. a cake with ten kand manycandles on it. >> and eat the whole thing. >> and the candles. coming up, he says the republicans who sent a letter to iran committed an unprecedented argument. senator warner joins us next on "morning joe." it's a fact. kind of like shopping hungry equals overshopping.

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mika what are you -- >> i don't know. it really sort of -- it's not pretty. joining us from capitol hill, member of the select committee on intelligence democratic senator mark warner of virginia. john heilemann and bianna golodryga with us as well. senator good to have you onboard. the 47 senators who wrote that letter i don't know if some of them perhaps regret it. i do no one of them does. john mccain said maybe they rushed to judgment. what do you think the impact on foreign policy was, if any? >> you know mika there's always been members of the senate that have been kind of on the extremes. what i don't get is why some of the more i think responsible, respected members didn't say time-out on this and think through, trying to score a cheap political point when it sends a message not just does it make us look you know a little disfunctional in front of iran

at a critical time for these negotiations but let's assume for a moment that a deal is not reached or not a deal that we think is good. you know how are we going to maintain the kind of united front with our european allies and others to make sure the sanctions only work because they're international and worldwide nature, and this was an action that i think was just beyond the pale. nobody's more bipartisan than i am or willing to take hilts from both sides than i am but one i scratch my head and say, oh my gosh. for somebody who has -- there's been funky days in this job, a couple days when this came out, what the heck is going on? >> the political opportunism can go both ways. let me try to look at this -- i agree with you -- but from the other point of view is rookie senator sending a letter you know, does it really have that much of an impact or are we now taking the opportunity to flout them at rookie senators? >> listen if it had ban rookie

senator who -- you know at least i gish him credit. he's been very clear. he wants to do anything possible to start a deal or stop a deal whether it's a good deal or a bad deal and the notion that all of these and many of these senators, i have a great deal of respect for i was just disappointed. this is not the way we ought to be conducting our foreign policy. for those of us who sit on intel and think about what our next steps -- i wish there would be a little bit, a few more cooler heads that might have said time-out on this. this is very very serious. >> yes. >> senator warner, haven't we seen this in the past? one could argue par for the course. speaker pelosi when george w. bush was in office. how big of a deal is this aside from politics back at home as usual? >> i think it's i think it is a big deal, because there are not a lot of great options going forward. the part of what you know, prime minister netanyahu said was, you know don't trust iran. they're bad guys.

they're bad guys. so don't do a deal but then says, then go do a better deal. well if you're ever going to gelt to the chance assuming for a moment if it's not a good deal if you're ever going to get to a chance to do a better deal you've got to have the world united with us to keep these sanctions on or being able to ratchet them up. i think that's undermined when you've got this kind of keystone cops approach that some of these senators took and, you know my hope is we can get it behind us but for an error where as somebody who is kind of more in the middle and want to give the new leadership a chance to see if we can get this place functioning again, this took a step backwards and frankly as something who's been a huge supporter of israel and believe absolutely israel is our strongest, most important ally this will be long-term repercussions. >> i'm curious. mika talked about regrets on the republican side. i don't see that much of that. a story in the "new york times" today talking how republicans are kind of seizing on foreign

policy because they are united on that issue whereas divided on a lot of domestic issues. curious whether you think beyond the iran issue whether this signals it's going to be very hard to have bipartisan cooperation on foreign policy not just on this issue but going forward in general for the at least rest of president obama's term? >> we spent five weeks trying to get to the radical notion we have a national security at a number we agreed upon in december. i'm not here to simply say what's wrong with the other guys. i'm here to actually see if we can get stuff done. frankly that's what the american people want and these kind of incidents like this, what i worry about is the long-term repercussions with countries that we have to work with on a daily basis. not only vis-a-vis iran but as we think about dealing with russia, the emergence of china. you know my hope is the sooner we can kind of move past the blame game and show a little

more unity both foreign policy wise as well i saw the earlier segment with cramer. i think it's great things about the market but we've got to realize we've kind of got this political debate in this country that says now on one hand unfettered capitalism on the other hand redistribution. i'm not sure either one of those is an economic here to they will lift up all of americans. >> all right. senator, so we only have 30 seconds left. let me ask you quickly about you talk about foreign countries and the impact the letters had on that. what about democrats that had signed on to bob corker's bill regarding iran? are you onboard with that? are other democrats still onboard with that despite the 47 senators signing the letter? >> put a point out, bob corker didn't sign this letter. >> right. >> he's been one of my best friends in the senate. we've worked on a lot of things. i think clearly congress will have a chance to weigh in on if a deal takes place in some way. whether it's senator corker's approach, which my friend tim

kaine signed on. i'm looking sthatthat pt for the mope time-out. let's see what happens over these next couple of weeks. >> all right. >> every american should want to make sure that there's a really strong, tough deal because the alternatives maintaining the sanctions regime or moving to the military option we need to think long and hard about. >> senator mark warner thank you very much. good to see you again. >> thanks mika. up next all this week we've been speaking to women who run things and today that would be the university of pennsylvania. the school's president, dr. amy guttman joins us, next on "morning joe."

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welcome back. joining us for our "women who run things" series president of the university of pennsylvania dr. amy gutmann, very good to have you back on the show. >> my pleasure. >> here we go. you run u penn and one of the first things you really wanted to do is make upenn accessible to all sectors of society in terms of income brackets or lack thereof. how have you been able to impact these numbers? >> so right before the great recession hit, we became the largest university in america to be all grant for our traditional undergraduates. we went from having about 30 to now having almost 50% of our undergraduates on need-based financial aid, all grant. >> wow. >> and it's made penn much more

accessible. we still have a ways to go but we did this before the great recession and persisted throughout it, because of the generosity of our alumni. donors, it made a huge difference to penn. >> obviously, that transforms the student body. >> it does. >> more diverse. >> much more diverse. we added 50% more pell grant recipients to our student body. one out of eight of all of our undergraduates will be the first generation in their family to graduate college, like i was. >> fantastic. >> i couldn't have done would you do need-based financial aid. my parents had zero savings, and i had partly loan but loans have to be affordable loans. >> yeah. because they're not, and bianna that's a story you cover all the time in terms of how these kids are strapped with a lifetime of debt in some cases. >> what we talked about with jim cramer earlier. people aren't able to invest in the market because they're still paying off students loans.

when you look at ivy league schools, just talking about this, the school of columbia study journalist $90,000-plus including room and board and having a 4.0 isn't enough to gelt awe scholarship these days. what are you doing to bring down the costs while still keeping the merits so high? >> we do everything we can to keep the costs down. the really important part is having financial aid based on need and directing all of our dollars to make ourselves affordable, because the sticker price, you know isn't the actual price for half of our undergraduate students and we have to graduate those students without a huge loan burden and then they can go on to graduate school. it's really important for american families to understand that if their children can go to a college which has a high graduation rate, they can afford some amount of debt because college pays off. >> right. >> it pays off so much more than

a high school education, but we as universities and colleges have to make ourselves affordable with financial aid, by graduating the vast majority of students. it's a scandal in this country that some colleges and universities have such a low graduation rate, because then you have loans and you don't have a college degree and that's a lose-lose. if you have a small amount of loans, and a college degree you will do so much better in life. i couldn't be where i am without having had scholarship from radcliffe at harvard, without an education -- especially women. there are some men who go out and say, drop out of college, i'll give you a scholarship to drop out of college. how many women do you know who dropped out of college able to go and support themselves and their families? >> this making a big difference and upenn being on the forefront of this will perhaps be a great example for other ivy leagues

because you also have to maintain your quote status. you're feeding a lot of beasts amy. >> and you're example enough. your story. >> thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> great to have you on. come back and i hope to see you on april 10th in philadelphia. will you come to the "know your valley" event? >> i sure hope so. >> maybe you'll be onstage. amy gutmann, go to the no your value website to grow your value bonus competition. one of the most dynamic parts of this event while we watch women pitch their value and teach them how do it. up next what if anything, did we learn today? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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choose choice twice, get a night at no price at 1,500 hotels. book now at choicehotels.com hey, welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. tell you, mika what i learned, still a long way to go in ferguson. a lot of changes have been made over the past week. but we're having a press conference at 10:00 that obviously we'll follow and we'll see where the city and the country goes from there. >> hopefully get an update on the conditions of the cops as well, but i thought the conversation this morning was rich and valuable and hope to have many more of them. bianna what did you learn today? >> as a reminder of jim cramer celebrating his ten-year anniversary how important it is for student debt to get cut down and for younger people to start investing more into the market. >> yes. i love what amy gutmann is doing at upenn, attacking that head-on. if it's way too early, what time is it? >> wait. we also learned two forrest gump

moments. >> you didn't remember for the first time, meeting me, years ago. >> yeah you and oppenheim. all the big stars started there. if it's way too early it's "morning joe." right now stick around because "the rundown" is coming up next. and welcome to "the rundown" i'm jose diaz-balart. we begin with breaking news out of ferguson missouri where once again violence erupted in the streets. [ gunfire ] >> [ bleep ]. >> two police officers shot overnight. the suspects or suspect are still not in custody. it happened at people gathered at the ferguson police department learning of the resignation of ferguson police chief tom jackson under widespread criticism since the death of michael brown last august. the gathering started peacefully but then shots rang out. >> these police officer was standing there, and they were shot. just because they were police officers. >> and to be clear, this was not

the people who were exercising their first amendment rights who did the shooting? >> i don't know who did the shooting shooting, to be honest with you, right now but somehow they were embedded in that group of folks. >> i had no idea. the-of-