less painful price but a hard price to pay to keep it going. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. cruise missile. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. isn't this what the republicans were afraid of? isn't this why they were keeping from being ideological street theater, no more talk about evolution and legitimate rape and stuff that scares people? well what will happen by having that sword swallowing ted cruz in the mix sometime? does anyone think he'll be there debating the nuance of trade policy or corporate tax rates? this is a hard right roller derby with cruise working the division.

david corn is the washington bureau chief with "mother jones" and kellyanne conway a republican strategist. the whole idea from reince priebus, this republican fight for the nomination is going to be tightly controlled not a lot of crazy theater, no more talk about evolution or liberal journalists involved and along comes ted cruz blowing the trumpet saying it's going to be my kind of show. who is the toughest fighter on the right to take down the democratic establishment and the republican establishment. this isn't what reince priebus and the boys in the back room wanted. not at all. is it? >> they can mutually co-exist. i don't think chairman priebus had senator cruz in mind when he said that. the dull mccain/romney formula, nominating somebody that they say can win and becomes a loser. why? because the grassroots gets demoralized, millions stay home and we know what works in the

democratic party. you had john kennedy jimmy carter, bill clinton, average age, 46. it's time for the republican party to at least entertain the notion of generational change in the party. people who are willing to take the case and show some contrast to the left. i think we should have a wide-open primary. >> so just to clarify, you have two arguments. a women in her 40s, somebody further on the right than the center? >> we need somebody who can win. mitt romney won one of the nine swing states. we know what doesn't work. >> i understand. but here's -- but this is what i don't understand. do you think ted cruz as he plays to the white evangelical votes and basically talks about this being a christian nation announcing this campaign that he can do better in these swing

states? >> ask her, not me. >> well actually he could do worse. >> david by the way, he's an hispanic. he's not just appealing to the evangelical whites. it's a great sound bite but you're an honest broker here. >> he's also against immigration reform, which is probably a key issue for that constituency. so i think just his heritage is not going to be enough to overcome. what people should be doing, which is voting on substance and policy. just because he has that last name is not going to get him a lot of hispanic votes. he's so solidly against their key issue. i'll make a bet on that if you want to. and listen, there was a smart piece in "the wall street journal" saying if we don't -- we being the gop -- doesn't expand our reach beyond the white guys and votes even more so than we did last time that the party can't win and ted cruz

has said quite decidedly, he's not about expanding the tent. >> he's never said that. >> he's about getting more conservatives. >> kelly, gets go to some voices here. the senator has become a hero on right-wing radio. it started with rush limbaugh watching cruz's presidential announcement in awe and going after what he calls the drive-by media. here's limbaugh. >> i'm watching the speech and it's flat-out amazing. >> the drive-by reaction to that speech without a prompter they could not help but be bedazzled and they were. they were dazzled and they are so worry that the guy is super human. >> you can tell the democrats and the media water carriers are petrified of cruz and a conservative being elected. extremists, he tried to shut down the government.

>> i had my favorite cable show on and these people are neophytes, neophytes. they have never fought in republican primaries for conservative candidates. >> for those who believe that god is in control, fast and pray like you've never fasted and prayed before because all of the guns are coming out for this guy. all of the guns. >> the real battle is with the establishment gop. >> cruz is a direct threat to their rule. >> wow. what did you make of that theater there? i know how this works. and there's two numbers you have to think about. if you're on television and political talk like this like i am, you're somebody like o'reilly or rush limbaugh on the radio talking to traveling salespeople, i know the markets for this. you can get 10% of the public you're in box office. but the game is to get 50%. are those guys we just heard from, are they talking about the

need for the republican candidate to win 50% or for their own broadcast needs to get about 10%? because that's a different question. your thoughts? >> my thoughts are that this is not as much about the media, who i think did a very nice job carving cruz's announcement and i think people will give him a fair shot and here's why. in the media they are fascinated by his ability to use no notes, no net, hillary clinton reading from binders, reading from teleprompters. it's refreshing. he also went to ivy league. super journalists icons of the right talking about. this is ted cruz who took on the establishment and beat david duhurst who put over 50 million and governor perry, karl rove every lobbyist every member of the assembly and senate in texas

and, guess what, ted cruz started at 2% in the polls. the margin of error is at 3%. the idea is that if you show contrast to the establishment in a primary, you may just prevail. >> okay. >> who would you vote for? >> i'm not a media conservative. >> this is a reliable source here. if you had to come down to the final brackets were ted cruz and jeb bush who would you vote for? >> me? >> yeah, you. >> oh, me. i'm sorry. i thought you were talking to ted cruz. >> who would you vote for? >> ted cruz or jeb bush? >> i think having the third -- yes, having the third bush versus the first woman is going to attract 15 to 18% republican women and independent women to say, i'm going with the first woman. i don't think that's a fair fight. i think arguing about how you prosper under the bill clinton economy or either the bush

economies is not a fight that the republican party definitely should want to take on. chris and david. i do think the fact that 77% of republicans say they are for generational change in the party, including a majority of seniors means they've been watching the democratic party. they were all told you can't win. we have 20 years democratic presidencies them dealing with the republican candidates never do which is to resist moralism and go for somebody new. >> okay. here's the question. parties have to make a decision are they going for the gold or silver? and 72 of the democrats said they couldn't beat nixon for re-election but picked a guy they could really believe in. eight years before that 1964 the republicans said we're not going to beat lyndon johnson because kennedy has just been asasa assassinated. they ran a guy they really believed in goldwater. is this where republicans are

going to say, we are going to run a guy we really believe in. go for the gold or silver? >> i think the republicans have a good shot at winning the presidency. >> so they won't go for this guy? >> i still think there's a tea party fever at the base of the party that will be rejectionist towards jeb bush. i'm not going to say they are going to go for jeb bush but someone who continues the anti-obama gop approach and will not bring them success if the swing states like kellyanne spoke about. >> i want to bring up a little thing that has concerned me about ted cruz. i met him once. he seemed all right to talk to. let me ask you this. is he going after the president with this thing about -- if you really want -- what is this quote, understanding harvard law school, very important to understanding our president, he said in an article. barack obama he's very much a creature of harvard law, to understand what that means, you have to understand that there

were more self-declared communists on the harvard faculty that there were republicans. what is that supposed to mean kellyanne, chuck hagel, a guy who has two purple hearts and accused of getting money from the north koreans, i remember reading about this i know about it, i was very young, why is he going back to impugning people's patriotism as a tactic? that's what i don't like about cruz. your thoughts? >> i hope he's not -- i don't believe he's attacking the president's speech and he shouldn't. he shouldn't. let me make it very clear. scott walker and rudy giuliani's comment, you should never question any president's love for the country, period. i think ted cruz does best when he talks about the issue. i hope he wants to have a conversation about that. >> why is the president being accused of being under communist influence? >> i don't think he is. i think what cruz was trying to say -- i think he should have talked humor rousely about the

harvard law school faculty and not involved the president in it. if he wants to have a big conversation -- >> chuck hagel took -- was it fair -- was it fair to say that chuck hagel, who fought in vietnam, won a couple purple hearts over there, is it fair to say he may have gotten 200,000 bucks from the north koreans? >> i think when you're deciding whether you should be secretary of defense, people should know more than somebody's war record. i think that's fair. but it's also part of a long record. >> no evidence whatever -- >> chuck hagel did it. >> no evidence whatsoever he took money from communist government. why would he do that for any other reason -- >> the clinton foundation has taken it from anti-women governments so i think that's fair game. >> noerkrth korea is a communist country. >> usually you can't hold people accountable for what they say and do but ted cruz has sent his

father out as a surrogate for him. >> yeah. >> and talked to tea party groups and his father has said the president is from kenya, this is a christian nation he doesn't believe that he's even a christian. so again, ted cruz has allowed that to happen. he's playing the same game that republicans can -- >> kellyanne, i respect you a lot. i expect you to go for the gold here, a very conservative statement with a very strong statement. i hope we've made news tonight. thank you, david corn and kellyachl nne conway. coming up what's the right way for hillary clinton? should she run to the left or to the center like her husband did? that's the big question for her and for democrats going into 2016. pluz ted cruz and jeb bush are the ying and yang of the republican party. what a fight this is going to be. and new information about that german jetliner lost over the french alps. we now know three americans were

aboard. they've got the voice recorder. what's it going to tell us? finally, let me finish with the mind of hillary clinton. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

we are getting reports of a tornado that has touched down west of tulsa, oklahoma. the sheriff tells us so far there's no reports of damage or injuries at this time. severe storms are rolling across oklahoma and tornado warnings have been issued for eastern parts of the state and also in northwestern northwestern arkansas. baseball-size hail has also been reported in the tulsa area. we'll continue to bring you the very latest as we get it.

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i have been a critic. so what i have said is that we need to have a plan to fix nafta. i would immediately have a trade time-out and i would take that time to fix nafta by making it clear that we'll have core labor and environmental standards in the agreement. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was then senator hillary clinton talking about her opinion on nafta and liberals in the democratic party on the left are focusing their energy on pushing hillary to the further left and shaping her platform rather than finding an alternative to her all but certain candidacy. ready for boldness a play on ready for hillary, 200 leaders and activists from iowa and new hampshire new hampshire have urged to adopt a populist left-leaning agenda. while hillary stands the best

chance to be the nominee in 2016, it's also more likely she'll be forced to face issues like education, free trade and regulating wall street forcing hillary to take the unions' side, trade packs, tax policy. she will face dueling demands from centrists and the liberal base of the democratic party. so who will hillary be with on these issues? the reformers or left or center-left? a former candidate for the governor of new york is joining us. let's talk about the political positioning. passionate left or center left? if you don't mind those certains, where should she go? >> of course i mind those terms. they are all populous issues where you see people across the

political spectrum rising up in resistance to what is happening. take trade. you see people left and right or the school policy where you can find republicans all around the country who are furious as the high-stakes testing regime bureaucratic trend that you see big donors coming from. so actually i think it is really interesting what they were talking about because they are talking about populism about hillary clinton actually speaking to middle class americans and i think that if she wants to, you know show her leadership and get people out to vote, she's got to tap into her own populist core and she has done that. she's shown in from time to time. not as often as i'd like to see it but i think it's essential for her to win, actually. >> that doesn't sound like bill clinton's approach in '92. so -- >> well, he -- >> hang on zeffer. we're passionate centrists and we believe she is as well. when you see candidate clinton come out and she's not a candidate yet, what you're going to see is somebody trying to

unite both wings of the party for sure but somebody who is true to her principles. she's an internationalist so she's going to be for sensible good agreements like the one that the president is going for now. >> let's get down to specifics, both of you. will she come out in support on the transpacific partnership? will she support the trade deal? >> i don't know. that's a strategic decision for her and her campaign. i think she'll support it ultimately because she knows it's the right thing to do. it's good for america. >> you don't really get to -- let's go back to you, zeffer. let me set this up. the thing about these fast-track deals, it's sort of a yes or no. will she be a yes or no on tchl tp? she was opposed to it 12 years ago, 13 years ago and it's about reshaping power.

political movements in are about people wanting power and there's not many people left except for a few don are nosors about taking it outside of the united states. >> will she support it or oppose it ultimately? >> i hope she opposes is. you know that she needs that and she knows that she needs that and she's got these two different sort of beating hearts within her. if she chooses to go with as "the new york times" story today suggested, the donor class instead of the -- >> the donor class is her husband. it's classic clinton policy to be free trade. do you think she'll break for him? >> as you said before she was talking about the problems with nafta. so -- >> right. >> i think if hillary clinton -- this is entirely separate from ideology. i think if hillary clinton really wants to be president and not just win the democratic nomination, she has to go --

>> let me move on to the other topic which i care about which is charter schools and teacher standards. will she be there with the union opposing those arguments and defend public education for all kids going to public school or will she take this sort of position that supports charter schools, spending federal money on them, government money at the state level and also putting tough teacher standards out there? where will she be on that, zephyr? >> i think a lot of people were attract the to the language of charters and what you see in new york and around the country, people are seeing there's a lot of corruption within the charter system. >> so you're against that? >> yeah. so i think she's actually going to try to stay quiet on it as long as possible. if she comes out as a strong pro-parent pro-education candidate, pro-democracy candidate, she's going to get people organizing --

>> i'm going to ask where you think hillary should be. >> i think she should be with the reformers, where president obama is and his team is. that's where the progress is being made by the kids. if you look at just the numbers, minority achievement has gone up enormously. that's why the civil rights group like no child left behind they like the esea they want this kind of accountability. >> i think the kids in my high school, when they grow up in my city are so glad they went to central high. anyway zephyr thank you. this is a debate that is going to go on for months. thank you, matt bennett. hillary clinton knows the issues. nobody is better prepared to make this decision than she is. up exnext new information about the crash in the french alps and what happened in the cockpit for eight minutes with those pilots. this is "hardball," a place for politics.

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welcome back to "hardball." the human toll for the crash of germanwings flight 9525 was evident today with victims identified from 20 countries. at least three were americans aboard, including a mother and daughter from virginia emily selke had recently graduated from drexler university. there is one gaping mystery. what happened in the french alps that caused a plane to crash in clear weather? one key piece of evidence is the flight's cockpit voice recorder which investigators said was recovered and is yielding some information. >> we just succeeded in getting an audio file which contains useable sounds and voices. we have not yet fully understood and worked on it to be able to say, okay this is starting at

this precise point in flight this is ending at this precise point in flight and we hear such persons and this is ongoing work for which we hope to have first rough ideas in a matter of days. >> in a matter of days. among the questions that need to be answered why was there no distress call from the cockpit and what accounts for the eight-minute silence before the crash itself? and what caused the plane to begin descending in the first place? was the pilot even in control or was the plane on autopilot? nbc correspondent tom costello is joining us along with jim wallace with the f achl achl investigative unit. first to you, tom. >> that was a very disciplined in their message and their approach. what essentially they said is yes, we heard voices on the cockpit voice recorder and we heard ambient noises but they want to go through a very

thorough and careful analysis to determine who is on that cockpit voice recorder and what are the sounds. because remember, the recording is for two hours. so it's possible they might be hearing the pilots sitting at the gate they might hear maintenance people in the cockpit, et cetera. every time the flip -- a switch is flipped in the cockpit, that kind of thing, they need to understand what are all those sounds. it's a very thorough audio-type type of analysis that goes on. this could take weeks, actually. they want to marry that up with the flight data recorder. it's not until you get both pieces of the puzzle that you can create a very complete picture. so let me give you a sense. the flight data recorder essentially carries anywhere from -- well in the neighborhood of 25 hours of data the previous 25 hours of flight and it's about a thousand to 1300 pieces of data. everything from altitude to speed to vertical acceleration heading, pitch, roll. was there a decompression event in what were the exact

parameters of the engine performance, inputs into the pilot system. all of those different pieces of information are going to be critical to figuring out, why did this plane descend from 38,000 feet down to 6,000 feet? why was there no -- at all, no deviation on that path? it flew straight into a mountain. why was the crew not responding to air traffic controllers asking why are you suddenly descending? were they incapacitated? was there a catastrophic event on board that maybe had been picked up by the audio recordings or by the flight data recorders and, as you mentioned, was that descent programmed into the autopilot and, if so why wasn't there a target altitude destination? in other words, normally when you go from 38,000 feet down quickly because of some kind of in-flight emergency, you want to get to 10,000 feet and level off. that's not what happened. it kept descending into 6,000 and slammed into a mountain. unfortunately, tonight we don't have any more answers than we

had last night. >> steve, why didn't they just fast forward the tape and look at the last minutes of the flight, the last eight minutes? >> this is the bae, the ntsb of france. they take a quick look to see if they've got good data and then they'll assemble a team of experts familiar with the plane, familiar with the language and they'll go through it very thoroughly. they are just not quickly trying to release this on the second day. that's the way the ntsb would do that as well. >> why do we need two recorders if -- why don't we package them together if we need both? why don't they tie them together so we get them together if we need both? >> they are right next to each other and some manufacturers in fact do combine them but right now we have the voice recorder which is tremendously -- >> you've been through this a hundred times, a thousand times. what does it look like to you? >> well the common thread to all those things that tom just pointed out, like no distress call, the plane descending -- a common explanation for that is

that somehow this crew was incapacitated. >> right away? >> incapacitated, you know so that points to the possibility of decompression of these pilots, every simulator session trained for that emergency, they have quick oxygen masks, they should be able to put them on in five seconds, at that altitude they have 30 seconds of useful consciousness. it's very difficult to explain. we have great authority. this mystery will be solved. >> talk, it happened when they reached their cruising altitude the highest that they were going to be, and about a minute or two after that this tragedy began, right? >> yeah that's right. literally, one to three minutes at 38,000 feet and then the descent began, this unexplained descent. you know i think it's also important to note here that if it was a decompression event, as you've just heard and that -- i've got to tell you, a lot of people are kind of guessing right now that that may have happened, that they lost consciousness, the question would have been, well then why

did they make the decision not to put into their -- not to dial into their target altimeter to 10,000 feet? why did they just keep descending and why was the rate of descent at about 3500 feet per minute? that's a good clip. it's not slow. it's not super fast. it's a good clip. it's as if -- i've described it as if you're on a plane -- have you ever been on a commercial plane and they say, folks, we have a medical emergency on board, we're going to step it up and get there fast? it's the pedal to the metal but the people on board would not have felt like they are sinking or anything like that you feel like an acceleration. that's kind of what it should have felt like. the question is going to be were they conscious or not. we simply don't know. >> well i hope we find out, thank you, tom costello and thank you, steve wallace for coming on with your expertise. they won't make ted cruz

happy. wait until you catch the stats on this. never a recipe for success. so starting doesn't mean you end well. plus, jeb bush gets a hand from his brother, former george w. bush on the money end. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

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here's what's happening. severe weather is rumbling through parts of arkansas and missouri. the national weather service reports one tornado has touched down west of tulsa and two have hit northwest arkansas. tornado warnings continue for both states. so far, there are damages to homes and buildings in the tulsa area but no injuries as of now. u.s. and coalition forces are taking part in air strikes to help the iraqi forces take back the city of tikrit from isis. coalition help was requested expelling militants from the

city. the saudi ambassador to the united states has announced his country has launched military operations in yemen as yemen's president is in an undisclosed location after fleeing his palace in the southern city of aden. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." ted cruz the senator from texas, has sucked the oxygen out of the room this month following his big announcement on monday. he has the distinction of being the first candidate to officially declare for 2016. as david letterman pointed out last night, that's not necessarily a good thing. >> ted cruz is running for president. he's the first candidate to announce announce. let's see now how the first candidates to announce in a presidential race how they do in the actual election. take a look at this. >> republican senator ted cruz is the first official candidate for the to 16 presidential

election. and, as history has shown, the first declared candidate always goes on to win the election except in 2012, 2008, 2000 1996 1984 1980 1976 1972 1968 1964 1960 1956 1950 1948 -- >> cruz is likely to wreak havoc on the republican field and tends to destroy what he calls the mushing mineral. the goal is to become the main conservative alternative to whomever becomes the establishment candidate. former governor jeb bush despite efforts to hit the reset button on his family's name he's enlisting his brother to headline a fund-raiser in dallas. this is part of a final push to meet his target of $100 million

by the end of march, that's this year a goal that bush leaked to confidants in february to clear the field of challengers. what we seem to have here is a party caught between two extremes, the mushy middle and a ticking time bomb. we're joined by april, author of "the presidency in black and white" and nicholas of the "new york times." i'm going to start with liz. this is -- well people tell me what he is doing is running for the establishment. that's his first goal. take on hillary later on. >> i think that's probably correct. the question that i have about the strategy is is this really a field that is going to be wid delled down to the usual two where we have an establishment or anti-establishment or are we going to see this splinter into four, a more moderate candidate, somebody who is a mainstream conservative for this field,

probably somebody in the rand paul area the more libertarian, and then somebody who is the more social conservative, evangelical. >> so four arenas? >> that's what i think. and i thought it was very interesting with cruz's announcement, he seems to be gunning for the fourth arena that i think is more dominated by mike huckabee and cruz thinks he can make a play for that. >> going to liberty university was certainly that. >> you think there are four arenas that you can survive longer than normal all you do is well in that arena for two or three primaries and you'll still be in the race? >> yes but i'm going to throw in immigration because i think a lot of hispanics are trying to find their way and i think jeb bush -- i'm calling him jeb w. >> a lot of people are going to do that. >> yeah i think jeb bush will give the hispanic vote what they want. >> is there a hispanic vote in the republican --

>> yes, there are. many hispanics are very concerned about president obama's overall job approval rating but when it comes to immigration they are for them. jeb bush spis clearly talking about immigration and -- >> what percentage of the primary caucus is hispanic? >> in florida, it's significant. i think there's a case to be made for it. >> jonathan how do you go from cruz is going to get his portion on this? to me he's a talk show host and you go for ten points not to 51. i know how he gets to ten. and that's not going to 50. 10% fall in love for you and that's all you need. >> i don't think ted cruz -- >> i don't mean that literally, by the way. >> i don't think ted cruz is that guy. >> that's not what i meant. if you're playing the hard right, you don't need 50% of the country to be enormously

successful. >> i'm just saying that all of the primaries get to a point where there's a guy or a gal and it's going to happen in this one but it's going to take a lot longer. >> right. >> it's going to take months -- >> i have a question. the old rule was three tickets out of iowa one ticket out of south carolina. in other words, you have to win one of the three. in kt is it going to be that way or is liz right, it's going to go on and on because libertarian, hawkish, whatever? >> you have so many different factions, one may win this one, one way win two of them. all of these people are in there and they have to have some kind of agenda. i do think right now cruz may be the -- i guess the great guy. he was brilliant. he came out brilliantly. i mean when no one else was out there, he was the underdog. >> even this week? >> even this week. already brilliant. >> i think he did the brilliant thing. >> memorized a speech?

give me a break. >> green eggs and ham. >> we did that in high school. >> what's changed in this campaign, chris, it takes less and less to be a real candidate. you need like a pickup truck and a good twitter following and a super pac and you can stay in for four or five or six of these contests. like santorum. i think we're going to have six of these people that are going to be topped up on the super pacs to 10 or $20 million, each of them. >> in africa one guy is known for the fly swatter, different leaders throughout modern history have been known for one iconic thing. when al sharpton was in the base, he was the best performer. he always had something very funny and memorable and made the top of the poll the front page story, he was in it. he made a statement and became well known as a result. it seems to me cruz is going to be like that. he's going to be the best show throwing the bombs and the other

guys are going to look kind of mushy-mushy. >> we don't know that yet. >> you don't think he'll do that? he says he's going to do it. >> he says but the proof is in the pudding. when he was out there at liberty university, i was tweeting everything he was saying. i think right now his stand is this one segment, this far right segment and going against obama. let's see what happens when the other candidates come out. >> are you saying he's going to let somebody else get to his right? >> it depends on the issue, right? >> wait a minute. i heard him the other day. he went through everything. get rid of obamacare. >> on spending there's absolutely no way that rand paul is not to ted cruz's right. there's no chance. >> really? >> oh, yeah. >> everything but the post office, this guy. >> i think he wants to get rid of the post office. >> total abolitionist. >> so far it's being played by bobby jindal. he says a thing little further than the next guy at each of these encounters. >> no ben carson says the thing that is over --

>> yes and no. if you look at google ads, they are trolg jeb bush. i don't know think think there are going to be a lot of lobby bombs. >> what is your reaction about what he gets clearly aimed at him? >> i think what he's going to have to do is really really talk up all of his conservativism and not like like he's shifting or anything like that because that's extremely deadly in politics. i think he's going to have to rely on the fact that yeah there are areas where we disagree but i challenge you to show that you have a better record when it comes to budget and -- >> i wonder what his opponents will control the definitions. he will be for amnesty, for common core they will have him using -- they will have established the language of the debate. >> the challenge with this is that a lot of these guys are for amnesty and for common core and have been.

>> not now. >> we're going to come right back. whatever to the whatever. this guy clancy has got some challenges facing him. we'll be right back and you're in charge of this one. ven piano tuners... were just as simple? thanks to angie's list now it is. start shopping online... ...from a list of top rated providers. visit angieslist.com today. you exercise. you choose the salad. occasionally. but staying well - physically, financially, emotionally - its hard on your own. so cigna's got your back and your knees, 24/7. cigna's there to answer your questions. or when you need some coaching. in sickness and in health,

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if eliquis is right for you. more fireworks in another congressional hearing with a director of the secret service in the hot seat. surveillance videos show his agents rolling up on to an active crime scene.

the allegations are serious, involving senior agents drinking interference with a suspicious package investigation, and lag time before the details were conveyed to the director joseph clancy. we have not been seeing exactly the clint eastwood secret service type of agency. what's your sense of the secret service foulups? are they systemic or just bad luck or what, with the new guy clancy at the head? >> there's been a culture. you have to remember these guys are -- there's really good guys in the secret service uniform and plain clothes men. but what we're seeing now is a culture that is finally coming to light. >> what is the culture that you understand to be there? >> from what i've heard, that the culture is -- we kind of make our rules. we do what we want at times. i'm not going to say that for all of them. but when you walk into the white

house today, you feel the tension in the air. you can feel how antsy they are. >> because of the stories? the guy that walked in the front door the guy that jumped the fence and walked into the white house. >> they feel it and they're very antsy. i can tell you some stories about some things that have happened recently. i will say this -- >> that's why you're here. tell us one of them. >> i don't want my badge yanked. >> really? >> seriously. i will say this. a couple of weeks ago, when it was very cold i was walking in had my badge out. and i was challenged. it was supposed to be around my neck and it was around there, and the gentleman said come here. i said excuse me? i never told this in public. and i said for what? and he was antsy, he was nervous, because of what was going on. my badge was there clearly. i walked onto my booth in the white house. and the sergeant came down and apologized to me. but they are very anxious right now. because the microscope is on them.

>> you're there every day. >> so what? i've been there 18 years every day. >> you're recognized. >> i'm anybody. i'm anybody. so i'm anyone who comes in there. so they have to do what they have to do. this is the house of the president of the united states. this is where he works, he lives, and his family's there. so there needs to be protection of the highest level. unfortunately it has not been. a lot of times when the presidents or the families leave, they're on the other side, one side may not be as protected as has been. >> i need to get nick in on this. historically we have a lot of faith in the secret service, not just because of films like "in the line of fire" with clint eastwood, but we always look at them with the guys that would take a bullet for the president. they were "t" men, treasury agents. moving into homeland security, do you think that was a mistake? >> that's a good question. the homeland security department is sort of the target and the butt of jokes and dislikes from everybody. >> it's an expansion change

it's new. >> it's striking that in so many years the secret service was the last untarnished institution. never the bad guys in any pop culture, they were always the good guys. for a year now or more month after month, more and more. >> we have to go. glad to have you back. >> jeh johnson will be in a committee hearing in the morning. just so you know. >> thank you. when we return let me finish with the battle for the mind of hillary clinton. ♪ ♪ i've been drivin' a lincoln since...

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let me finish tonight with this battle for the mind of hillary clinton. my strong belief is that the former first lady u.s. senator, and secretary of state, should do what she believes is right. does she believe charter schools and rigorous teacher standards are important or does she believe they undercut public education? does she believe trade is good for this country or does she believe in restricting it? secretary clinton has been focused on child development and education through much of her public career. she's a certified policy worker. she knows the issues sees the flaws. the same goes for trade. for four years she had to deal with the economics foreign policy. the positive role of good open trade plays between countries. bottom line secretary clinton has a great grounding and perspective on these matters and

should take the position that this fits as closely as possible with her own policy judgments. the right position is the one she believes in. all this lobbying by the interest groups is good for them, not necessarily for her. the person who has to believe in what she's going to be out there fighting for, and defending. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in," the bush brother funding kicks into high gear. tonight where republicans who think they can beat jeb bush are probably fooling themselves. the lawyer for bowe bergdahl on desertion charges for his client. the disgraced oklahoma frat boy is now singing a different tune. >> let me start by saying i'm sorry. >> and why the internet erupted after a deadline article about ethnic casting in the wake of empire success. "all in" starts right now.