experts with us. also the volatile middle east got much more complicated this morning. u.s. complicated this morning. u.s. air strikes helping iranian-backed militias in iraq at the same time the u.s. is supporting saudi arabia air strikes against iranian-backed rebels in yemen. we'll get the latest white house reaction from josh earnest. plus the latest reporting from nbc news correspondent andrea mitchell, both here onset in washington. also nbc's pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski live with new details of the desertion charges against sergeant bo bergdahl with the story he first breaux two months ago. we have the "huffington post" sam stein and senior white house correspondent chris jansing with us. pulitzer prize winner writer for the "washington post" and msnbc

contributor jonathan kayecapehart. and let's go to the stunning new report from the "new york times" detailing the final moments onboard germanwings. the headline germanwings pilot locked out of the cockpit before the crash in france citing a senior military official involved in the investigation. the times details what the cockpit voice recorder captured in the final moments before the jet crashed. the official describing hearing a, quote, very smooth very cool conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight. before there was any indication that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter. the investigator says, quote, the guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and then there's no answer. then the source describes hearing louder knocks saying quote, you can hear he is trying to smash the door down. but still, no answer. the official goes on to say,

quote, we don't know yet the reason why one of the guys went out but what is sure is that at the very end of the flight the other pilot is alone and does not open the door. chilling. we have all angles covered on this breaking story this morning. nbc news correspondent keir simmons is live from seyne-les-alps, france and licensed commercial pilot anthony roman and former faa chief of staff. keir, let's start with you. let's get the latest from the scene. what are you hearing officials on this report from the "new york times"? >> reporter: mika, people are completely stunned. one german journalist described this to me as enormous. the for days we've been wonder whoog i this a320 went down into the mountains, the alps behind me. it was just across this mountain ridge in the background here. and now this news. by the way it isn't only the "new york times."

it is there's french news agency afp that is describing and we need to be really careful about what we say that they say the black box recorder reveals. but what it appears to reveal according to these reports is that one of the pilots leaves the cockpit. this is sound they're listening to. remember. and that then -- so the door seems to be opened and closed. and then there is a knocking on the door. now, there is some discrepancy between the two reports. "the new york times" seems to go further and suggest that whoever this one of the two pilots was who left the cockpit, according to this report who is then banging on the door urgently trying to get in. remember mika there has been this eight minutes where there was silence from the plane as it descended from 38,000 feet. no message. no mayday. we haven't been able to figure out why that was. and then it slammed into the mountains here behind me.

as you can imagine liftufthansa is talking about the two pilots, it is saying that the copilot joined in 2013 that he had just over 600 hours of flying experience. the pilot was previously flying lufthansa, joined in 2014 had 16,000 hours of flying experience mika. >> all right, keir thank you very much. i want to go to michael, former faa chief of staff. michael, want to start with the very first question i asked at 6:00 a.m. yesterday morning, why is terrorism being ruled out so early and is it still being ruled out in your mind? >> clearly, if the unsubstantiated reports are accurate it will take a more center stage on this investigation. that isn't necessarily a good thing for the public's need to know. if it is in fact true and they belief it is terrorists or

suicide or some nefarious act they're going to shut down the flow of information on this while the fbi and counter parts search this out. some leaked information is in the public interest. this piece, both the "times" and the french paper reporting may not help us. >> michael, why don't we have the idsots at this point? >> that's unusual. we should. i'm not sure why lufthansa is holding that back. if this scenario plays out, you know, most people assume after 9/11 those doors are re-enforced, double doors and locked. there's always two pilots or two people in that cockpit. if one has to go to the bathroom break or something else a flight attendant would come in to make sure there's always two people in there. that's a u.s. rule on all u.s. flag carriers. and one would think it would be with the care your lufthansa but we hear the germans say that's not necessarily a requirement.

if that's true that's going to change. >> anthony roman, if i could ask you, why would a pilot be alone in the cockpit, is that normal? >> no that's not normal and it's against regulations. this is absolute violation both in the united states and in europe. this is a remarkable development. you know, we can talk a little bit about the cockpit door. that is both bullet proof and grenade proof and has a triple electronic mechanism to look it. it also has a manual dead bolt in the event that the electronic system fails. this is controlled by either a toggle switch to the right of the captain in the center console or an overhead control panel and the airlines has the choice as to which type of mechanism is used. however, the more information that's developed about this unsubstantiated report begins to suggest the hypothetical. and i question you, the

hypothetical, that this was intentional by the flight crew member who was still on the cockpit because if he became incapacitated incapacitated, couldn't lean right and left at the same time to cause the plane to descend and to lock the door inadvertently and prevent the copilot from coming? >> i want to make sure i understand. many of us who fly frequently have seen a situation where the pilot comes out, usually go to the bathroom after they reach cruising altitude, and then sometimes a cart will be brought even to block that aisle by the flight attendant. does the door on these planes automatically lock? so in other words, if that pilot came back from whatever he was doing and we don't know we could make an assumption that he was going to use the bathroom and was knocking and then pounding on that door what would be the normal protocol? how would that play out? >> the normal protocol would be that no crew member should ever

be alone on the flight deck. that is what's called a no-alone zone. when one of the crew -- flight crew members exits the flight deck, a flight attendant should be entering the flight deck and being a companion to the actual flying crew member. so why that happened is a mystery. but the door does not automatically lock. the pilot has to engage the lock. and there is a control panel outside of the flight deck that can be accessed by the flight attendant or the other flight crew member outside of the cockpit to place in a code and enter the cockpit door. however, that can be overridden for 5 to 20 minutes by the crew member on the flight deck or it can be manually overridden with a dead bolt. >> you know one of the questions i still have is whether or not there is wi-fi on

the plane because if there was indeed a pilot banging on the door trying to smash his way in then this is something chillingly that the passengers were seeing and there's that eight-minute descent. i just wonder if there's any sign in terms of transactions between people on e-mail which we'll be hearing from. >> we haven't heard anybody going to twitter, we haven't heard of anybody sending an e-mail which does seem highly unusual. >> keir simmons on the scene in seyne-les-alps. keir, do you have a question? >> mika yeah anthony, i have a question for you. as you rightly point out, this is not confirmed. these are just reports, but it suggests, doesn't it a really quite frightening picture in the minutes as the plane goes down if a pilot, one of the two pilots is trying to get into the cockpit and is unable to. if that is the case what would you imagine would be happening onboard the plane? >> well, i think this would be

terrifying and terror would become exponential as the plane begins its descent. there is a precedent for this occurring. there have been several instances in which the flight deck crew member has locked out the other flight crew member intentionally. one instance to commit sued side. suicide. one instance is to hijack the plane and commit political asylum. we have to rethink, if this scenario proves accurate we have to rethink that locking mechanism and the override features. >> michael goldfarb not to harp on one topic here but when are we going to get the names of these pilots, do you think, and their nationalities as well? i'm surprised that we have passengers and usually when we're covering these investigations the names of the pilots are released. >> it's highly unusual at this three days out, not to have

those lists. i think these reports will accelerate the release of who the pilots were. >> what questions come to your mind that we don't have these names? >> i don't think -- i mean, i really don't know. i don't think it's any intentional withholding unless -- unless they have already begun a criminal investigation and they want to look at the hard drives of the pilots like mh370 around look at the profile and look at the background. not making them public is unusual. but one other thing mika when i said this hampers the investigation. the french ntsb they're going to be very unhappy about this leak because even though they say we're going to do an orderly review of the cockpit recorder, orderly review when we find the flight data recorder there is enormous pressure now to focus on this and that wouldn't necessarily be the order in

which they look at things. and furthermore, it's one piece but there's many unanswered questions. was it a medical emergency? did the pilot have heart attack? was there some kind of incast tags from gradual loss of cabin pressure? there are so many unknowns this may ultimately prove not at all to be what comes out in the end. it certainly is a horrific turn in this already tragic event. >> it widens the scope of the possibilities, that's for sure. michael goldfarb keir simmons, anthony roman, thank you very much. we need to move to our there big story of the day, one of many. to yemen which appears to be on the brink of an all out civil war. the whereabouts of the country's president are unknown this morning after he fled his home by boat as she eat rebels approached. the hoothis are offering a $100,000 bounty for his capture and they are now in control of the country's airport. iran is widely believed to be

supporting the rebels in an attempt to seize control of yemen. the saudi ambassador to the u.s. said it gave them no choice but to begin air strikes against the rebels. >> the use of force is always the last resort and it's with great reluctance that we took the step rather than peaceful dialogue and peaceful transition to a stable and democratic yemen. they have always chosen the path of violence. we will do whatever it takes in order to protect the legitimate government of yemen from falling and from facing any dangers from outside militia. >> several other countries are vowing to protect yemen including egypt, kuwait and the united arab emirates. president obama approved some intelligence and military support from the for the saudis but the crisis is leading to growing questions about white house claims that yemen is the success story in the fight against terrorism. >> does the white house still believe that yemen is the model

of counter terrorism strategy? >> the white house does continue to believe that a successful counter terrorism strategy is one that will build up the capacity of the central government two have local fighters on the ground to take the fight to extremists in their own country. that is a template that has succeeded in mitigating the threat that we face from extreme extremists in places like yemen and somalia and is a template we believe can succeed in mitigating the threat emanating from syria as well. >> astounding. you're saying you still see yemen as the model? building up the central government, central government which has now collapsed, a president who has apparently fled the country. saudi troops massing on one border, the iranians supporting the rebels. you consider this -- this as a model of counter terrorism? >> again, john, what the united states considers to be our strategy when confronting the effort to try to mitigate the threat that is posed by extremists is to prevent them

from establishing a safe haven. >> okay. i'm taking this whole thing to kim. you say you've lost the plot. what's the most stunning headline of all of this this morning, saudi arabia? >> yes, i would say the sunni coalition coming together to push back against iran just as the united states is pursuing these negotiations with the iranians in switzerland. i was talking to government advisers to saudi arabia gulf official, and the sense is really that they feel bahrain and yemen are a red line. they don't want to see iran interference there and they will step up to the plate to push back against iran's influence, iran's expanding influence. what i find very interesting is the inclusion of pakistan in this coalition. >> chris jansing, i'll let you jump in here. what did you make in terms of the white house's contention that yemen is still holding together in some way, shape, or

form? >> yeah and you don't envy josh earnest at that point trying to make the case that the president actually was correct when he said that this is a model of counter terrorism strategy looking at the president who is on a boat somewhere maybe headed to djibouti, american troops will left, the parliament has dissolved, the embassy is closed. you've got 100 fighter jets -- >> i think that might be a bad sign. >> but the serious part of this obviously is the part that josh says that it is correct is what is of concern to us is al qaeda and the arabian peninsula, the ones behind the paris attack, the ones behind a number of foiled attacks that we know of. we need those folks on the ground. we need that intelligence. what they were trying to say we yesterday, the white house is saying there are still elements of the government inside yemen who we are in contact with who we are able to get intelligence from our ability to launch drones is severely hampered.

all that leads to an opening for terror. >> kim, can i ask you why do you think pakistan is involved in this coalition? >> because the saudis probably asked them. not probably they would have asked them to come into the coalition. i think there is -- >> why would they say yes? >> why not? saudi arabia is a patron of pakistan in many ways. zarif spent his years of exile in saudi arabia. the saudis wanted the pakistani onboard with the general coalition against isis. i think at this point, even though the pakistanis are not participating militarily yet it's made clear they're part of this coalition and that's why i talk about the sort of sunni coalition rising and countering iran's growing influence. and it was interesting to speak to these gulf officials who said you know it's about time that we step up to the plate and when the administration gets criticized for not doing more in the region the reaction from these officials is well, you know, we need to take ownership

of what's happening in our region and we welcome the logistical and intel support from the u.s. >> there are two proxy wars going on here. yemen and iraq. and while we're countering iranian influence in yemen, we're side by side with iran in iraq. so how do we even keep track of all of this stuff? >> just left iraq after the iraqi prime minister apparently told the shia militias he was overriding their objections against calling in american air strikes. it's never exactly black and white when it comes to the middle east. but i think the narrative of iran rising we need to look at this a little bit more closely. yes, they are trying to set up influence in various spots in the arab world but they're sinking a lot of money into this and their allies are losing a lot of men. it's not exactly a success. >> kim i knew that this was a very serious situation when we

were talking about it now, saudi arabia is leading these air strikes. i can't remember the last time saudi arabia led anything like this. how significant is it that saudi arabia is doing this? >> very significant. and i think what told me that something very serious was happening is the saudi ambassador called this press conference. i don't recall the last time that happened in washington. the question here is what happens beyond this first one or two days? what is this strategy and does the sunni coalition stick together, what does turkey do and does the syrian opposition knock on saudi arabia's door, well if you can help in yemen, we've been waiting for a while to get some backing for our cause in syria. i think that's going to happen. >> we've got a lot ahead. of course the reports a pilot was locked out of the cockpit before the crash in france. we are following every angle, every development on the crash of flight 9525. also ahead on "morning joe," white house press secretary josh earnest will be here in the

studio with the administration's reaction to the crumbling situation in yemen. plus, the chairman of the foreign relations committee, senator bob corker. and congresswoman tulsi gabbard, cochairing a new caucus on veterans hill to make sure the veterans get what they deserve. ahead, what's the proper punishment for someone who has already suffered at the hands of the taliban. military experts weigh in on the desertion charge against army sergeant boweburg dall. you're watching "morning joe."

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just a few minutes toms can stole lo will be joining us on the late toens mystery now surrounding the new information of flight 9525 which crashed in

the alps and the word of the pilot that was locked out of the cockpit as the plane went down. but first, we have other major news. joining us now nbc political analyst, former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele and we'll turn to the battle to defeat the islamic state militants entered a new phase this morning. the u.s. is now conducting air strikes against isis in the key city of tikrit. officials say there were more than a dozen air strikes in saddam hussein's hometown. targets include adware house where isis stored weapons. iraq asked the u.s. to begin the air strikes. iran was initially helping iraqi forces to try to regain control of the city from isis but both iraq and the pentagon recently admitted those efforts had stalled. meanwhile, rebels are claiming victory in a city six miles from syria's border with jordan. they are now in control of a government stronghold after four days of clashes.

the rebels had help from al qaeda's branch in syria and isis is claiming responsibility for a series of attacks in libya that left 17 people dead. one of the attacks was a car bombing in benghazi which killed 12 people. kim, how do we even characterize the middle east this morning and what is going on there and the different kind of conflicting teams getting together? >> i told you just -- >> i know. if you lost -- >> there is a lot to unpack when you look at the middle east this morning and over the last few weeks. like i've been saying. i think it's interesting that these sunni countries are coming together. i think that in essence, you know, i'm just imagining the conversation they probably told the obama administration, you want a nuclear deal with iran fine we're not very happy about this but what we are going to do is try to push back against iran's expanding influence in

the region. in iraq itself i think to some ebbs extent it was a smart strategy but a risky one that the obama administration relied on shia militias. why not have somebody do the work on the ground but clearly the iraqian-backed militias were not able to make good progress and that's why the iraqi prime minister decided it was time to really call on the americans to provide air support. but the -- just one last point. what i find interesting is we need to keep an eye on what's happening in syria and the town the rebels took on the order with jordan. the rebels in southern syria have been holding territory longer than any other rebel group in the rest of the country country. >> is yemen is the next area? >> is syria the first, is yemen the first, it's getting messy. a lot of people i know in the region just simply are feeling very uncertain because everything that has anything to do anymore with the status quo

is gone. and people can't even decide anymore whether they think an iran deal is good for them or not good for them. >> how about that? >> i think the question for u.s. policy though going forward, it seems like the prevailing obama doctrine at this point is don't let our troops get in the middle of all of this because what's the point? the counter question and maybe one you can answer is would we benefit from a bit more of a footprint in that region at this point in time? does it make any sense for us to get more involved to direct some of these actors because there are three different proxy wars and sometimes we're realigning with different sides at any given point. >> it's mostly sunni versus shia and it's not a theological war, it's really saudi and iran. i don't know how much support there would be for more of an american military footprint on the ground. and using -- giving logistical and intelligence support or giving air cover is one way to, you know hedge your bets in a way or find a middle ground.

>> michael steele? >> for me when i look at this and you asked the question about the american footprint, chris, you cover the white house and you're talking to these folks every day. with all of this happening, is there at least some inkling of understanding why israel is so nervous about its place right now, amidst all of this going on surrounded by its enemies, a nuclearized iran why netanyahu actually wound up win that election when everyone thought he was toast? i mean, at the end of the day, i mean, that aspect of it is that a part of the conversation or is it just you know because of frustration about us coming here, does that matter? how is that playing out at the white house? >> i think the white house feels that -- and they've said very publicly that personalities don't matter here it really is about the policy. when you get down to it in some ways they felt freed by what bibi netanyahu did. the fact that he came here. his comments leading up to the

election. his comments about arabs and voting. they sort of felt that released them meaning senior white house officials. you heard the president on tuesday, he really escalating the rhetoric an't the two-state solution. they feel in some ways like they are free to make comments and neither side is giving any indication that they see an opening coming. >> about 30 minutes josh earnest will be here. we have so much to talk to him about. i wonder if he regrets the booking now. it will be nice. coming up huge new development in the investigation into the crash in the alps that shows one pilot was locked out of the cockpit. a former top ntsb investigator and former pilot who flew that type of plane will both explain what it could mean. nbc's tom costello will be here onset. we'll be right back.

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all right. we're following the breaking developments on the mystery now surrounding flight 9525. joining us from tampa, florida, former commercial pilot and nbc news aviation analyst john cox. from las vegas, forrer ntsb investigator greg five and tom

costello. tom, i'm going to start with you. are you surprised we don't have the names of the pilots? >> not necessarily. >> why? aren't they released fairly soon? >> normally but it's been less than 48 hours. that doesn't bother me as much although we may be in a mode of criminal investigation and i don't know what the laws are in france as it relates to disclosing the names of people involved in a criminal investigation or, for that matter, in germany. we do know a little bit about the pilots. that is that lufthansa is telling us the pilot himself, the pilot himself had 6,000 hours of flying time since may of 2014. he had been with germanwings and co-pilot had joined in september of 2013 had flown 630 hours. but what's really perplexing here is the scenario in which one pilot is inside the cockpit. the other is outside. if this was a deliberate criminal act and by the way, we should note, it's not just not "the new york times" reporting this.

the associated press has a source and so does lavigaro. if a pilot was locked out because he or she went to the rest room then normally you have a flight attendant who goes into the cockpit as well and waits to make sure they can let that pilot back in. so did that happen? if so was that flight attendant either part of some sort of a criminal act or a victim as well. we simply don't know. >> john cox, what do you make of tom's questions? are they the right ones at this point? are they the ones you have? >> they're similar to the ones i have. i've been very suspicious about the single source that reported this initially. but there seems to be substantiation coming along with that. for a pilot to get up for physiological reasons, to go back to the lavatory is not that uncommon. there's a proet control that's followed. that's the question, was that protocol followed properly? it's very unusual for a pilot to be left in a flight deck by

themselves. additionally, if the fact that the pilot that was outside couldn't get back in it says that the door is placed in an override condition or mode. and the question would then be why. so there are several pieces here. i know that in france they always con currently run a criminal as well as an aviation safety investigation. so all of this information is being funneled through both sides, both the accident investigation side and criminal side. regarding the question about the release of the crews' names, recognizing that the investigators have the crews names and that a background check on those flight crew members has already been started. it hadn't been released to the media but it doesn't mean the investigators don't have them. >> i wonder how long it will take for those names and nationalities to be released. tom, you have a question for greg? >> greg former senior ntsb

investigator. greg, you have listened to cockpit voice recorders. you have also gone through flight data recorders. given this scenario what would you as an investigator be listening for on that cockpit voice recorder in terms of the voices, in terms of the clicks the sounds inside the cockpit, what would you listen for? >> one of the things tom, is that when that one pilot got up to leave the cockpit we want to know exactly why they were getting up what kind of movement -- you should be able to hear their particular seat. it's motorized. you will hear it slide back to give them more room to climb out because there's a center pedestal. we're going to be listening for noises. of course, you're going to hear the door open. you will hear it lock behind you as they leave the cockpit. and then of course any discussion that the pilot that's remaining in the cockpit may be having with himself. we have heard on previous cockpit voice recorders where there was some discussion where somebody started to chant or

pray. so the investigators are going to be listening for that. then, of course, when other pilot who left the cockpit tries to re-enter the conversation that may be taking place through the door. the one thing i want to stress is while we have several sources now that are saying that this pilot got locked out of the cockpit, we don't know if anybody went into the cockpit after this one pilot had left. so we have to be very cautious that we talk about one pilot being left alone. we don't know that at this point. we just know that one pilot wasn't in the cockpit. >> hey, john cox, being a former airbus pilot you are intimately familiar with the a320. we should remind the audience the airbus does not have a yoke. in other words, a center control stick like on a boeing. it's a joy stick off to the left or the right of the pilot. so how likely is it or could you envision a scenario in which the pilot had a medical emergency of some sort and could slump over and trigger that joy stick,

could literally lean on the joy stick and be unconscious and the plane would go into a desscent or does that seem highly unlikely to you? >> well, it's certainly possible except for one thing. the airplane continued to fly on its track and the desscent rate is constant on the way down. in the cases where you have somebody manually flying the airplane or more importantly, the autopilot not flying the airplane, you get a more erratic flight path. so right now the evidence seems to indicate that the airplane maintained its track, which says that the flight management computer was flying the -- was commanding the autopilot which was flying the airplane and descent rate was a commanded descent rate probably using the vertical speed mode. but that's where you could get this consistent flighting profile that we see based on the information we have so far. >> so isn't that also debunked a bit by the fact that john cox and tom, you were also saying

that pilots not to be alone. so if someone had come in and there was a medical emergency, there would be someone in there with the pilot. the question is why, if the pilot was alone in the cockpit, why was he alone in the cockpit and, if he wasn't who was in there with him. john cox what do you think the key questions are at this point? >> well, if there was a medical emergency of some point, the first thing the flighted a tent can't is going to do is get that other pilot. they're going to open the door. so the fact that that didn't occur, it also adds question about the medical emergency scenario. what we don't know and this is one other thing when we start talking about the potential for a nefarious acts or deliberate actions. every time we have seen that before they have not used the auto flight system. in other words, they've manually flown the airplane down to impact. we saw that at silk air. we saw at that egypt air 990 and a couple others. the fact the airplane remained on autopilot is inconsistent

with what we've seen in dlib rat acts in the past. so it says that we don't have all of the information yet. we've got to keep an open mind and we've got to keep looking for that flight data recorder. that's going to be a key element. and we need to wait until the bea releases information in their press conference b later in the day. >> all right. greg and john cox, thank you very much. nbc's tom costello if you can come back in the next hour, that will be great. thank you very much. up next from one prison to the another, former taliban captain bowe bergdahl could spend leaf behind bars for allegedly deserting his post in afghanistan and endangering his soldiers. we go live.

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sources are out there putting this stuff out there. there's speculation at best. i can tell you this and i know this with certainty. he has not been charged. there is no pressure or rush to judgment here. the general will take his time and we're just going tv to let this process play out. >> that was rear admiral john kirby on "morning joe" in january denying reports from nbc's jim missklaszewski. those charges came to fruition has bergdahl was charged with desertion and endangering his fellow soldiers. mik, what is next step? >> i sense that admiral kirby at the time was just doing his job. but the next step is that bergdahl will face an article 32 hearing. it's the equivalent of a pretrial hearing in civilian courts whereby a military judge will have the chance to examine

evidence and question witness toes determine whether bergdahl should be court-martialed for desertion. fearly six years ago, then private first class bowe bergdahl walked off his outpost in eastern afghanistan and into the hands of the taliban. he was charged with desertion. >> desertion with intent to shirk important or hazardous duty. >> reporter: by leaving his post in a war zone bergdahl faces a second more serious charge of endapgerring his fellow soldiers. maximum penalty, life in prison. josh served with bergdahl in afghanistan. >> i think that it's -- he's very lucky that they're not talking about firing squad and death penalty for him. >> reporter: bergdahl appeared in several hostage videos. forced apparently to condemn the war in afghanistan. >> you are not fighting stupid people. you are fighting very smart people who know exactly how to kill us. >> reporter: in may of last year bergdahl was released in a

controversial prisoner swap. the obama administration agreed to release five high value taliban prisoners in exchange for bergdahl. later one of the taliban prisoners tried to reengage in the fight in afghanistan but was stopped. upon his release bergdahl's parents appeared in the rose garden with president obama. little comfort to sandra and and difficult andrews who lost their son darren in afghanistan and claim he was killed while searching for bergdahl. >> he's not a hero. he's a traitor. you know he's a decertainer. he left his post in war. >> some legal experts are surprised that millie judge or general millie i'm sorry, actually added that second charge which carries a life sentence. but there's a sense that he did that just to emphasize just how serious it is, just how serious a crime it is to walk off your post in the middle of a war

zone. now, everybody thinks it's likely that a plea bargain will be offered to bergdahl at which he would be busted down in rank get a less than honorable discharge, and lose some $200,000 in back pay but not go to jail mika. >> mik, thank you very much for your reporting. joining us now here onset, former defense department official and now senior legal fellow at the heritage foundation, good to have you onboard with michael, chris, and sam as well. chris, this was politically charged when bowe was brought home. >> without a doubt. obviously the president at the time said and he stands by this by the way, i was talking to senior administration officials late yesterday, you don't leave a soldier on the battlefield. the question is this exchange which raised questions, for example. >> so many. >> you have five,s exchanged five taliban fighters. and we've heard it over the course of the last five years, people who have loved ones who are being held as hostages why

can't we make an exchange? and the politics came out yesterday. people like john boehner issuing statements. obviously we were happy we got bowe bergdahl home but this makes america less safe this exchange. >> when you look at this transaction and now these charges, what are your -- what's your analysis in terms of how long, first of all, this take? mik was reporting months ago and the decision to bring him home? >> yeah. i'm not convinced, mika that we wouldn't have done this deal in the bush administration. we may not have done it crafted the saw way, maybe had more assurances from the a tarry government and other government that took the five or fewer senior taliban members from -- >> why do you say? >> it's the same principle holds through any administration. you don't leave your folks on the battlefield. and so they hatteberg dall. we understand that his health was declining. what we would have traded for him, i don't know. does it violate you don't negotiate with terrorists

probably. but you just don't leave our folks behind. it's a politically charged issue. the court-martial process will play out. it will take more time than people expect it to. i'm not convinced we wouldn't have the unthat. >> i think where the administration got itself in trouble was through the pomp and circumstance in which they announced the deal. going on to the rose garden for that ceremony having susan rice saying he served with honor and distinction. that was the problem. it's tough not to notice that the deal was done under the premise that we were ending down the war in afghanistan and it was a prisoner exchange taliban for bowe bergdahl. two days ago, maybe yesterday we were announcing we're keeping troops in the country and the war is not winding down. five more months of deployment. a lot of circumstances that were initially there when we announced this prisoner swap have changed dramatically. >> agree? >> i do. >> and the ramifications of that? i mean also i think the optics of the way he was brought home i think was perhaps a little bit of a mistake. >> everyone knew that bergdahl

had left his post at least twice before this last time. and so it wasn't a person who was sort of the water walker soldier that a lot of people painted him to be. i think politically the optics were really bad. >> should not have been a red flag for the administration you think? but, you know. >> there were a lot of republicans at the time who were calling for him to come home and -- >> until the optics changed. >> thank you so much. nice to meet you. come back. ahead, white house press secretary josh earnest joins us here onset. we'll find out what he says about yemen and is it still a model in the fight against terrorism? plus new information emerging just minutes ago about the pilots on germanwings flight 9525. the mystery deepens. why was there a pilot heft in the cockpit and one locked outside? what is the answer to that question. stay with us. we'll be right back. and then i saw him slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking. i was downloading a movie. i was trying to download a movie.

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55 past the hour. there is new information about the pilots of germanwings flight 9525. npc nbc news confirmed the pilot had more than ten years of experience and 6,000 airs flying time. the pilot joined in airline in may of last year and first officer was with germanwings since september of 2013. he joined right after training. we're still waiting to learn the

identities and the nationalities of the pilots. this is a question i've been asking all morning because i don't understand at this point why they won't release unless perhaps there is a criminal investigation, which is on going. which pilot was flying at the time of the crash. these are the questions. was eight medical emergency? doesn't seem likely. was it criminal? maybe. was it terrorism? why is that being ruled out? we have all those questions coming up. we're going tv much more on the investigation into germanwings flight 9525 and this incredible report a pilot may have been locked out of the cockpit. that is being triple sourced at this point. we'll go live to the french alps with much more on that. plus, white house press secretary josh earnest and andrea mitchell join the table. we'll be right back.

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i just think is a major, major development. so far this is a "new york times" report. it sounds like it's single sourced so you have to be very careful. but meanwhile, it begins to be one of the first things that makes any sense in this whole crash. call a spade a spade. the implication here is that if one pilot left the cockpit for whatever reason and the other pilot then locked him out, wouldn't let him back in the implication is that the scenario would be that this pilot who is now piloting the plane alone in the cockpit takes the plane in

intention fally. >> welcome back to "morning joe." we're live in washington this morning covering the major develop lts of the morning. joining the table nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. white house press secretary josh earnest is with us. chris jansing and john man capehart is still at the table as with el. we begin with the stunning report from the "new york times" detailing the final moments onboard germanwings flight 9525. the headline germanwings pilot was locked out of the cockpit before the crash in france. citing a senior military official involved in the investigation the times detail what's the cockpit voice order captured in the final moments before the jet crashed. the official describes hearing, quote, a very smooth very cool conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight. before there is an indication that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter. the investigator says quote,

the go i outside is knocking lightly on the door. and then the source hears louder knocks saying, quote, you can hear he is trying to smash the door down. but still no answer. the official goes on to say quote, we don't know yet the reason why one of the guys went out of the cockpit but what is sure is that at the very end of the flight the other pilot is alone and does not open the door. josh, i do want to touch on this with you before we branch out to the middle east. but we're going to stay on this story for a bit with so in new developments and mysteries. does the white house know the names of the pilots? >> mika this is an incident that continues to be under investigation by french authorities where the plane crash occurred. we obviously have been in touch with the french to offer them any support that they need. and you saw that the president earlier this week telephoned both chancellor merkel and president from spain to offer his condolences. i read the same report that you read.

and it's obviously chilling. but at this point the french have the lead on the investigation -- >> this is a multinational investigation. >> it is. >> i'm wondering, does the white house know and not releasing the names and nationalities of the pilots? >> we have been in touch with the authorities investigating this and there has been some information shared. but at this point the french have the lead in that investigation and we've offered them all the support they need to ensure that that investigation gets conducted as quickly and efficiently as possible. >> i want to bring in right now former faa chief of staff michael goldfarb. michael, the concept of what we've learned overnight is so chilling. >> right. >> when you imagine what those passengers went through. are we looking at criminal and technology at terrorism at this point? can we rule out medical emergency when you think about how this works? >> no. >> why not? >> we can't rule out anything that incapacitated this pilot.

whether someone else came in at cockpit at that time but now the whole thing gets complex -- investigation gets even more difficult because the fbi and the french counterpart, their job is to, you know, find out what happened, break things apart. the board, the investigators, they want to preserve things. we saw this in egypt air and tw800, created tension between the two branches in parallel trying to find this out. >> okay. so when you listened to josh earnest now, the white house clearly watching this. we have several countries clearly -- france leading the investigation. where are they focussed right now? what questions are they asking? are they asking the same questions i'm asking you and trying to get everybody in terms of the background of these pilots and could this have been criminal or terrorism? >> everything is on the table. they're not taking -- using data to come to a conclusion. they're looking -- we don't have the flight data recorder, we don't have a full reading of the

cockpit voice recorder. the two most vital things that will piece this together. of course they're looking at the pilots' backgrounds, of course they're looking at their hard drives like the mh370. they're profiling them. that it's happening behind the scenes. it's just going to probably not have much public exposure that the time if in fact the criminal line is the lead pursuit. >> andrea mitchell? >> i have a question for josh earnest. we know there were three americans, two were identified but there's still a number of not identified passengers and there's going to be confusion with people with dual citizenship citizenship. do we doubt there were other americans lost here? >> this is something the state department has the lead on and they've been in touch with the foreign authorities to confirm the identity of the passenger on the manifest including to determine those who may have had american citizenship. that's still ongoing. >> there's still a possibility of more americans have been died in this or at least those with dual citizenship? it's always a confusing process.

you have a name. you don't necessarily have identification. >> start and figure out birth dates and cross matching them against u.s. records. that's a process still ongoing. >> again, to recap this story, because we have two other major headlines to get to. tom costello is going to be walking in here in a few minutes. the bottom line is here citing a senior military official involved in this investigation, "the new york times" is detailing what the cockpit voice recorder captured in the typal moments before this jet went down and there is one pilot that left the cockpit and the official describes hearing a, quote, very cool very smooth conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight before there is an indication that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter was locked out. the investigator goes on to say he was banging on the door trying to smash his way in. this of course is a chilling and potentially devastating development in terms of where this investigation could go. we're going to revisit the questions answering this with our experts and tom costello in

just a few moments but we have to get to yemen, which now appears to be on the brinch ofbrink of a civil war if the whereabouts of the country's president unknown this morning after he fled his home by boat as shiite rebels approached. the houthis are offering $100,000 bounty for his capture and they are now in the control of the country's airport. iran is widely believed to be supporting the rebels in an attempt to seize control of yemen. saudi ambassadors to the u.s. says the latest developments gave his country no choice but to begin air strikes against the rebels. president obama has also approved some intelligence and military support for the saudis but the crisis is leading to growing questions about white house claims that yemen is a success story in the fight against terrorism. and, josh i'll put you on the spot here. is yemen still a success story? can you say that? >> yemen has for years been a chaotic situation. >> is it a success story? >> it is a -- it is a country

that continues to be very dangerous because they do not have the same kind of government structures in place that allow for a country to function and what we know -- and this has happened in the past and we know it's happening now, there are certain extremist groups that have designs on attacking the west that try to take advantage of this chaos, that try to assert themselves in the chaos. >> clearly that's what happened. should we dial back on the words that it is a success story when you have the president fleeing on a boat? >> well, mika we need to separate out two things here. the measure of tus policy should not be graded against the success or the stability of the yemeni government. that's a separate enterprise. the goal of u.s. policy toward yemen has never been to try to build a jeffersonian democracy. the goal in creme men is to make thur that yemen cannot be a safe haven that extremists can use to attack the west and to attack the united states. that involves trying to build up the capacity of the government to help news that fight.

and there is no doubt that we would prefer a situation where there is a stable government, where there is a place where u.s. personnel could operate inside of yemen, coordinate directly with yemeni security forces to take the fight to these extremists. but the fact is that even though u.s. personnel is no longer in yemen, the united states continues to have the capacity and resources and reach to be able to take strikes when necessary against extremists operating -- >> chris, how, josh how when you have the embassy closed, americans have left, you have the parliament that has been dissolved, you have the president fleeing on a boat maybe towards djibouti you have so many less possibilities for intelligence on the ground how can you say that we are still in a counter terror situation there? and opening that's created for a qap in this chaotic situation? >> again, chris, we would much rather be in a situation with stable central government to actively support our on going efforts and in a we -- >> given the situation you have

now, josh what can the united states do in terms of counter terror strategy in yemen? >> we do continue to be in such with some elements of the yemeni government. that effort at security cooperation is not as robust and as successful as it would otherwise be if the yemeni government were stable. but we still continue to have ties that are important to our security. the united states continues to have resources in the broader region that we can use to strike terrorists if necessary. and the president has indicated a commitment to uses the resources to keep the american people safe. >> andrea mitchell? >> this is now a proxy war if you will between the saudis and iran. partisans and now the saudis directly in this. how do you at the same time that we are supporting the saudis against iran in yemen be negotiating in switzerland for a deal with iran on nuclear weapons, which is going to be criticized by the saudis and all of the partners who are fighting the iranians in yemen? you've got opposition on the

hill which going to be ginned up by this. you're also going to have a lot of opposition to any deal you negotiate in switzerland. >> overnight the saudis announced they were going to take military action with other persian gulf countries to try to address this situation on saudi's southern border stp this is a legitimate interest that they have. they have a long border with yemen and it's one they need to protect. they have sought u.s. support for their on going military operations and we have established a coordination center where question with offer some intelligence support and logistical support as the gulf coast countries includeing saudi arabia try to protect saudi arabia and yemen and mitigate the threat posed to their country by this instability. there's no doubt that we believe it's in the best interest of the united states, our allies in israel and our partners in the region including saudi arabia, for us to try to find a diplomatic resolution to the concerns that the world has about iran's nuclear weapons program. there's no doubt that there will be differences of opinion, but

if we're able to reach an agreement in switzerland still an if that the point, if we're able to reach an agreement in switzerland we can present the terms of that agreement to the congress, to our allies in israel, and to our partners throughout the region to make the case that this is the most effective way for fous prevent iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. >> iran is insisting there not be terms laid out on paper, you can present to congress. iran is insisting it be a secret deal understanding, that cannot be laid out for the world for congress and the allies to see. >> the president has made clear and the president committed to this in the news conference he did earlier this week, that we would be in a position where we are doing to present very clear commitments that iran has made in the context of this political agreement we're trying to reach. >> i'm going get to capehart "the new york times" suggesting iran is backing away from the deal. is that true? >> well, what we have tried to do is to allow space for the negotiators to do their work and not provide a minute by minute play by play.

>> no play by play? are you sure? >> ratings would be up for sure. >> josh one of the surprising things happening in yemen is the fact that saudi arabia is leading the strikes. i'm wondering did the united states push saudi arabia into taking action or is this something that saudi arabia the kingdom, did on its own? >> good question. this is something saudi arabia decided on their own. simply saudi arabia and yemen share a long border. saudi arabia understandably is concerned about the chaos that they're seeing along their southern border so they decided to take military action to protect that border and they have enlisted the support of other partners and allies of theirs in region and they asked the united states for some intelligence support that we can provide and the president has agreed to that request and we are providing them support. the saudis are in the lead in this military action they are taking to protect the interest they have along the border with yemen. >> on the iran deal since you can't give us a play by play, i do want your take.

has the republicans' involvement along the way damaged the negotiations? >> the sense that we have is that iran continues to be participating constructively in these talks. and the biggest concern that we had about the letter that was signed by 47 republican senators is that it eroded confidence not necessarily in the iranians you would have to ask them if that was the case but i think it raised some questions in the minds of our allies about whether or not the country of the united states was united behind an effort to look out for our interests. when you have a partisan attempt to pretty blatantly undermine the president's efforts to conduct diplomacy that does raise -- >> that would be damaging to negotiations. >> would not help negotiations. no doubt about that. but we continue to be engaged in this effort, we're united with the international community, finding iran is engaging constructively in the conversations. but it's going to require iran to make some very serious commitments and made to be seen where they can do that.

>> loretta lynch, is she going to get through here? >> she deserves it. no one raised a single legitimate question about her aptitude for this job. she has strong bipartisan support. >> what's going on? >> we've got partisan politics in the senate. you will recall that the president nominated loretta lynch in november when the democrats were in charge of the senate. and there was a precedent for an attorney general being confirmed in a lame-duck session. mitch mcconnell incoming majority leader said hold on a minute. she should be considered by the new incoming republican majority and we promise to consider her nomination fairly and in the timely fashion. i think based on the substantial delay we've seen it certainly raises questions about whether or not senator mcconnell is going to keep that promise. >> i have to ask. how would you characterize the relationship between the president and bibi netanyahu at this point? >> just running the gamut today, aren't we? >> sorry. look. he's described it as business like. >> that's right. >> i personally think that's fair. he's being always criticized for

not reaching out, for not reaching out and kind of being conciliatory. is there some value in being conciliatory and moving on? >> i'll say a couple things. the president made this observation apparently newsy news conference earlier this week where he noted that the president had spent as much time talking to bibi netanyahu as any other world leader since he took office. and that is a testament -- i think what that does is that speaks much more vocally to the relationship between the united states and israel. there is a tendency in the coverage and i think it's understandable to essentially turn it into an international version of "dr. phil." what's the relationship between these two people can they stop arguing and bridge their differences? the case the president makes is that while the psychology of that situation may be interesting, what's far more important is the relationship between our two countries. and what the president has demonstrated time and time again as recently as earlier this week is that the united states and israel are strong allies. the president throughout some of

the turmoil that we've seen has reiterated his continued support for the intensive security cooperation between our two countries. prime minister netanyahu described that security cooperation under obama's leadership has unprecedented and president is determined to continue that kind of relationship because it's essential to the security of the israeli people. but we're going to have our -- we're going to have our differences. we've been i think, pretty candid about saying what those are. but we also should acknowledge that there is some things that we'll endure and that is the -- at least one of those things is the enduring unprecedented security cooperation between our two countries that has emerged under the leadership of president obama. >> the president and you have been very precise in saying that security cooperation, military intelligence continues. not saying that sharing of information about the iran talks and other sharing of intelligence that clearly u.s. officials feel was

inappropriately leaked to congress and cherry picked to try to influence the outcome. >> there have been certain situations where we have expressed concerns about information that has been leaked to sort of cherry pick -- to cherry pick and to mischaracterize the united states' negotiating position in the talks with iran. we do continue to engage in conversations with our israeli allies about the status of the talks and the president made clear that if we're able to reach an agreement we will certainly talk about the terms of that agreement with the israelis to make sure they understand it. we're going to do the same thing with congress. our intelligence cooperation and intelligence sharing efforts do continue on undebated and that is essential to the security of the i believe railly. >> we're going now but just want to clarify. i'm serious here. on our top story of the morning. one of the three. the white house is aware of the name of the pilots but not prepared to release those names. is that correct? >> what i'm saying is that the administration and our particularly through the state

department have been in close touch with the investigators who are reviewing all of the relevant information. >> including the names of the pilots. >> i suspect that the -- >> and nationalities. >> they have been able to collect that information but i don't have any information about what we have but we are going to continue to be in close touch with the investigators. >> josh earnest, thank you. good to have you on the set. i head this morning, live to keir simmons in france as the investigation continues in the crash of germanwings flight 9525 and its third day now. and former pilot anthony roman helps us try to answer how a pilot could possibly have been left alone in the cockpit. nbc's tom costello rejoins the table as well with his very latest reporting. i hate cleaning the gutters. have you touched the stuff? it's evil. and ladders... awwwwwww!!!!!

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22 past the hour. we are following new information about the pilots of germanwings flight 9525. nbc news confirmed the pilot had more than ten years experience and more than 6,000 hours of flying time with the airbus a320. the pilot joined germanwings in may of last year. the copilot also called the first officer joined the company right after training and has clocked about 630 hours of flying time. >> that's not a lot. >> that's not a lot at all. >> not a lot for either one of them. >> and that raises questions. i'm sorry. we're not going to joump to any conclusions. tom costello michael goldfarb here. we're not going to jump to conclusions but it raises questions that were being put to rest i think really early in this investigation. >> i think now we're clearly looking at a criminal investigation, but for just a moment on the qualifications. 630 hour on a first officer in the united states you need 1500 hours to become a first officer. so this guy had only 630 hours. that doesn't mean he wasn't qualified.

and then 6,000 hours for a captain. generally a captain, that's on the low side. you would want somebody who has more hours than that. wouldn't you think? >> especially given the kind of flight they do. flying all the time. >> like flying the shuttle from washington back and forth. >> over a mountains. >> but both of you raised your eyebrows. i've been hammering away at the names of the pilot, i know they can't be released but why? >> i think it's a criminal investigation. can i just tell you just in the last few minutes the german prosecutor's office has now confirmed two nbc news only one pilot was in the cockpit. so we now have that from the german prosecutors office. we got it from the "new york times,." i think this is well established. >> inconceivable that lufthansa wouldn't have the same rule the u.s. having two people in there. >> you're talking about a flight attendant if one pilot leaves. >> yes. we got as close as we could get with josh earnest that it appears that this multinational investigation at this point, that the white house has

indication on who the pilots are and what their nationalities are. i think we can make that leap from what he was saying. joining us now from seyne-les-alps france. sooer keir simmons has been on the scene the whole time. in new york anthony roman. keir, first of all, what are you hearing on ground there? >> just to explain, helicopter that you can hear flying right over as you come to me that is the helicopter that are ferrying air accident investigators back and forth to the crash site which is in the mountain range behind me here. mika, there is absolute shock here at this news because for days we've been trying to figure out why an a320 would descend like this from 38,000 feet into this mountain range. and now perhaps do we have part of the answer. now, there are a number of news organizations here reporting this news from their own sources and as tom there mentioned now, we also have it from the german

prosecutors office. we do seem to be increaseingly confident now there was only one pilot inside the cockpit. there are differences, mika, in terms of some of the reporting because talking primarily, of course, about what the black box recorder recorded in terms of sound. now, some of the reports seem to suggest that you can hear one of the pilots leave and that you then hear a knocking on the door. the "new york times," for example, seems to suggest that the audio on that tape makes clear that that pilot was then very, very energy jetically violently trying to get back into that cockpit. that's about as much as we know from here. by the way though the second black box which might provide more helpful evidence they still haven't managed to retrieve that from here. >> tom costello chime? >> well, you're looking there at the remains of the cockpit voice order. it was absolutely pummeled by the impact into the mountain. and i've talked to veteran ntsb

investigators who say, boy, they haven't seen a cvr that looks like that. come out live i'm going to show you what it's supposed to look like. this is the same model of the cockpit voice or flat data recorder. this is what they're going to be looking for. they need to find the flight data recorder. this is where the recording is in this cylinder. >> that's crushed. >> well, in the case of this cvr it was crushed but they were able to extract data. so now in the case of the fdr they need to find the same thing. data will be in here on a chip. there was a report yesterday that they have found this orange casing in the wreckage but that the chip was gone. but then the french investigators said, well, we're not sure that's a true report. there's an awful lot of inconsistencies on what's happening on the scene and the investigateing office in paris. >> michael and then anthony. >> critically important, even if we go to a criminal investigation is having these two, the flight data recorder. these will tell the overall story of what happened to that

plane and why if it was taken down intentionally, it was. the investigation goes on even though we move to a criminal situation, we still going to aggressively look for these two. >> this will tell them what did he program to the auto file lot. this will tell them that. >> as we know now, anthony roman, if the pilot in there alone, that's against -- there are different policies for different countries. he should not have been in there alone, correct? >> no he should not have been in there alone. that's against international regulations. and all aircraft accidents in the european union, as well as in many south american countries, are investigated as criminal investigations first. so it's the criminal investigation agencies that take the lead in those investigations. >> okay. keir simmons, on the ground. as you're hearing this all come together and watching the investigation there, you know there is also the search for remains as well. and such a vast debris field.

bring us up to date on the other side of this story which is the casualties, the families and how they try and get these pieces pulled together. >> yeah that's right, mika. some of the families now are here. we don't know which ones. and they just in the last hour or so we've watched them i can't show you but there's a road we're standing by. we've watched them drive up there. further down that road is a place which if you like you could call the bottom of the mountain. there's a chapel there. and they have gone there, not as we understand it to go up to mountain, it's really really difficult to get to. definitely by foot which is why you're hearing so many helicopters fly over. they have gone there to try, i guess, to get as close as they can to where their loved ones last were to pray to do whatever it is that they need to do. now, we think that some of them may be allowed to fly over the crash scene. the airline lufthansa is saying that it will let people do that

if they want to do that. and in some cases frankly you may not want to given what's there. and the process, too, of removing bodies. that continues and makeshift morgue has been set up here. honestly mika i don't know how far they are along that process but i'm not going to go into detail but you can imagine from the report that we have been doing about how decimated this plane is that in itself is going to be a really difficult process. >> tom costello? >> can i just ask you, walk us through, if you would, one more time because i thought your description of how intricate the lock is how difficult it is to get into the cockpit, if somebody on the inside had essentially overridden the keypad, right? that's possible? >> that is exactly possible. that door is incredibly strong. it is bullet proof. it is explosion proof. you can throw a grenade at it you're not getting through that cockpit door. it has a triple electronic locking mechanism, a manual bolt

override as well. there were 22 types of switches within the flight deck that can be used to control the locking mechanism. one is a toggle switch that's on the center pedestal that has normal position lock and override. that override position is really important in the course of this investigation because that disconnects the keypad used by the flight attendant or the other pilot who is outside of the cockpit to gain access into the cockpit if the pilot becomes incapacitated. so it is starting to look like we may have a nefarious scenario here. that would be my leading hypotheticals but we have to keep all options open. >> all of them. anthony roman, thank you very much. michael goldfarb thank you.

tom costello, thanks for coming back. we have a lot more coming up here. we have so much new dwobmentes and bringing news overnight. the latest information on one of the other big stories we're following this morning. former taliban captive bowe bergdahl could spend life behind bars for allegedly deserting his post in afghanistan and then endangering his fellow soldiers. retired four star generally barry mccaffrey joins us. you can find a new frontier. there's nothing stopping you and a lot helping you. technology that's with you always. this is our promise. it's never been better to wander because wherever you go, you'll find us doing everything we can, so you can.

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♪ ♪ i'm almost done. [ male announcer ] now you can pay your bill... ♪ ♪ ...manage your appointments... [ dog barks ] ...and check your connection status... ♪ ♪ ...anytime, anywhere. ♪ ♪ [ dog growls ] ♪ ♪ oh. so you're protesting? ♪ ♪ okay. [ male announcer ] introducing xfinity my account. available on any device. the u.s. army sergeant who vanish fred hised from his post in africa in 2009 is now being charged be desertion. sergeant bowe bergdahl was held in captivity by the taliban for

five years before being released last year involving the exchange of five senior taliban commanders from guantanamo bay. nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski has the latest. >> reporter: nearly six years ago, then private first class bowe bergdahl walked off his outpost in eastern afghanistan and into the hands of the taliban. he was charged with desertion. >> desertion with intent to shirk important or hazardous duty. >> reporter: by leaving his post in a war zone bergdahl also faces a second more serious charge of endangering his fellow soldiers, mack mum penalty, life in prison. josh served with bergdahl in afghanistan. >> i think that it's -- he's very lucky that they're not talking about firing squad and death penalty for him. >> reporter: during his five years in captivity bergdahl appeared in several hostage videos forced apparently to condemn the war in afghanistan. >> you're not fighting stupid

people. you are fighting very smart people who know exactly how to kill us. >> reporter: in may of last year bergdahl was released in a controversial prisoner swap. the obama administration agreed to release five high valued taliban prisoners from guantanamo bay in exchange for bergdahl. later one of the taliban fridayser ins tried to reengang in the fight in afghanistan but was stopped. upon his release, bergdahl's parents appeared in the rose garden with president obama. little comfort to sandra and an drink andrews who lost their son darren in afghanistan and claim he was killed while searching for bergdahl. >> he's not a hero. he's a traitor. you know he's a decertainer. he desserter. he left his post in war. >> with us now, congresswoman from hawaii tulsi gabbard, foreign affairs committees. also with us from oklahoma city nbc news military analyst retired four-star general barry mccaffrey.

he's president of the strategic planning firm br mccaffrey associates. andrea mitchell sam stein, and chris jansing is with us. >> if i can start with you, general mccaffrey what happens next here and one of the things that we've heard is there doesn't seem to be an appetite for further time for him to serve. he's already been in the hands of taliban for five years. having said that most of this came out as a result of platoon members, of his platoon, who were the first ones to reveal that he had potentially deserted. we heard from their parents. we heard from the parents of people who believe that their loved ones died as a result of searching for sergeant bergdahl. so the question is what happens next and what is the appropriate punishment punishment? obviously you're sending a message about what happened here. >> yeah. well, i think first of all, important to remember that there's an article 32 hearing, grand jury proceeding yet to happen. we won't know until that's done whether ultimately he will go to

court under what charges. then there will be guilt or innocence determined under uniform code military justice. we shouldn't presume an outcome of that either. and then finally, if convicted on any of these charges, they will sort out the appropriate punishment. and it's unlikely i agree with you, after five years being hammered by the taliban that he would serve any particular lengthy prison term. i do think it was extremely important that we objectively look at the circumstances. you know thanks to snowden's release of all of this classified material, i've actually read the transcript of taliban radio conversations the day they captured this guy. he clearly walked away from his post intentionally. and these young soldiers that have been talking publicly about the incident i think are quite correct. they were outraged that a

comrade left them. so let's let the uniform code of military justice play out. the bigger issue to me was, it was incomprehensible to me that the president of the united states walked out in a rose garden with this guy's parents. who came up with that idea? and susan rice saying he served with honor and distinction? there was an exhaustive investigation at the time by combat forces in afghanistan on what happened. so we knew objectively what happened within days of the incident. >> so the video that we just put up there is what i want to ask tul ski tulsi gabbard about as well. the prosecutor is going to be holding a news conference on flight 9525. it's important because we've got this word overnight a pilot was locked out of the cockpit. this news conference is going on right now. it just started. little difficult because there's a translator involved but let's dip in.

>> the response the copilot seems a little abnormal. so i'd like to repeat. we hear the flight attendant asking the copilot to start taking the command ss and then we hear a door closing after a chair has been moved. so we assume that he left the cockpit in order to use the rest room. so at this point the copilot is the only one in the cockpit. so it's while he's alone that he is somehow manipulated the buttons on the flight monitoring system to manage the descent of the plane. so again, i repeat he was alone at the helm of this plane in the airbus 320.

again, i'll repeat. the copilot was the one who was manipulating the flight monitoring system who managed the descent of the plane. so again, all of these actions were completely voluntary. then we hear the pilot calling, asking to regain access into the cockpit. this is through a certain type of phone between cabins. so again, we can assume he was identified, however, the copilot just didn't respond. he's knocking. he's asking to be let in. zero response from the copilot. we hear human breathing within

the cabin, and we hear this breathing up until the final point of impact which we assume means the copilot was living was alive, in the cockpit. then we hear contact from the control tower in merseille, however, ciero er is zero response from the copilot. therefore, air traffic controllers start asking for a distress signal. again, zer o response. this means that this flight became a priority compared to every other flight at the time. control tower even asked other plane s planes to try and signal contact this airbus.

again, zero response. so after that, alarms were put into place to try and alert the people to how close the plane was to the ground. then we start hearing banging, someone trying to actually break the door down. that's why the alarms were let off, because these were protocols put in place to prevent any terrorist attacks. so alarms start ringing and right before the final point of impact we hear something that we assume was some kind of first point of impact. so we assume that the plane actually glided a little bit on

some kind of slope before it actually hit the mountain. again, zero distress signal. zero help me or sos. nothing of this sort was received by any air traffic controllers. nothing like help me help me sos, nothing was received by the air traffic controllers. and no response no response. there was zero zero response to any air traffic controllers' attempts to contact the people inside the plane. so you know, it's today, it's 12:30, it's been more or less 48 hours after this crash. so i'd like to insist that our interpretation as of now as investigator investigators speaking of the man who controls this region as

well as the director of the investigation jointly the most plausible investigation is that the copilot based on some kind of voluntary -- again, this was voluntary, deliberate, refused to open the cabin door in order to let the pilot back in. i'll repeat he refused to let the pilot back in. so he is the one who pressed the button that allowed the plane to begin descending and lose altitude. so i'll remind you that in the last eight minutes of this flight, the flight was, you know, 30,000 feet in the air, 10 to 12 meters in the air to 500

meters. so again, he pressed the button for a reason that we cannot seem to understand. but we'd like to analyze it by a deliberation of destroying this plane. that is all i can say for now. we've asked for more information from judiciary authorities in germany, on, you know personal background, family becomeack groupedground of this copilot. he is, again, of german nationality, he is a german citizen. so i'd like to communicate all of this to you know the families of all of these victims who were onboard this plane. again, i'm here for you to answer any questions you may

have have. i'm sorry. i can't answer that question. again, i feel like i received this information too late. this is a brief response. we were hoping for more of an exchange. the copilot is the one who should be briefing the rest of the plane on the plane's landing, so we don't really understand why the response was so short. can we please have some more information on the pilots sir? so i remind you that the crash occurred 48 hours ago. i received this information in the middle of the night, so we are continuing to research diligently this morning in order

to really understand the context and the life, the background of this copilot. so again, this is what we are hearing. we are hearing regular breath, regular breathing. he did not pronounce any actual words. i think the pilot probably realized what was going on and if he was able to open this door himself, again, the door is locked, the pilot would have doneit definitely. there are highypothesis about suicide, i refuse to use that word because i don't know. this is information i received. hopefully in a few days more

information, as of now all i can say that he voluntarily deliberately allowed the plane to descend. the plane to lose its altitude. it's really unusual. it's 1,000 meter per minute. but, you know in reality, he had zero reason to do so. there was zero reason for him to prevent his copilot -- or his copilot for returning to the koch kit. zero reason for not responding about the descend. zero reason for refusing to type some kind of code and alert signal to the rest of the planes in the region. so what about this hypothesis about some kind of psychological illness? so again, for now it's only been 48 hours. again, all we know is that the copilot was breathing normally.

wasn't anyone who was in the middle of having a heart attack for example. he uttered not one word. complete and total silence. what about the pilot and the rest of the flight attendants? this question was asked earlier. i think the victims only realized what was going on really at the last minute. because in the data that we can listen to you can only hear cries right at the end, right before the point of impact. so we can hear cries but just at the last minute.

what can we hear from the cockpit? is that what you're asking? in the cockpit he responded to nothing. the copilot did not alter a single word. utter a single word. there was absolute silence in the cockpit. silence in the cockpit. >> nothing. no word. no word during the ten last minutes. >> yes. >> translator: yes. we heard breathing. it's not answer. >> translator: but breathing is not speaking. breathing doesn't answer our question.

>> yes. i think voluntary refused to open the door, and he -- >> translator: yes i think he voluntarily refused to open the door. >> turned the button to get down the plane. >> translator: and he deliberately press add button that allowed the plane to begin descending. >> it's an accident. >> translator: no. this is not an accident. it's an accident in the sense that this was a plane crash, but, again, this is voluntary, deliberate action on the part of the copilot.

so the copilot's nationality is german. i don't know what his ethnic origin is but, again, he's a german citizen -- was a german citizen. and had no prior terrorist history. so new international law ever since 9/11 has imposed locks on the cockpit doors from the inside. so that people from the cabin cannot actually get into the cockpit. which means that the person inside the cockpit has to actually approve entry of anyone even if the person on the outside knows the code in order to enter the cockpit. so there's a button that someone has to press from the inside in order for the door to actually open.

and, again, it depends on the plane. this particular plane was created in 1991. so it's actually 24 years old. so as soon as someone exits the cockpit there's an automatic lock on that door. so again, i'll repeat. there were very brief responses. not a real dialogue. there is no real meaningful dialogue. again, at the beginning of the flight regular, completely regular dialogue between pilot and copilot.

but the pilot then goes through the checklist for everyone else in terms of what the aircraft needs to do for landing. it seemed brief. there's no real meaningful exchange between pilot and copilot at that point. so can we hear increased breathing, when we know that the pilot's knocking on the door? to my knowledge, there is zero camera that allows us to film the copilot in the cockpit. but we don't hear any particular panic through his breathing patterns. based on his breathing patterns again, it's not halting in any way. it's completely human, classic, normal.

at least based upon what we can hear and analyze. so my primary investigation -- so at first we assumed it was an accident. so our primary investigation assumed that this action was involuntary. however, ever since receiving this information, we now believe that it was voluntary. i don't know which city in germany the pilot is from. but we really are at the beginning, the very beginning of all of these investigations about the copilot. we've only known this new information for a few hours.

so in terms of information on the copilot, german judiciary officials will be the ones having this information, will be the ones sharing all of it once they receive it. on our side we don't know any of this. we don't have these answers yet. i hope that we have preliminary information either later today or tomorrow but we're also waiting for any official responses or information from german officials. angela merkel as well as spain's prime minister have both accelerated all demands for information. so i truly, truly hope to have rapid responses from both countries. when the pilot leaves the cockpit does he ask the copilot to start the descents? no. again, at this point, the plane was in autopilot.

so, again, we can assume that the pilot probably exited the cockpit to use the restroom. and, again, the descent was supposed to begin above a place and dusseldorf but they are not next to each other. so it does not make sense. i know his nationality. it's german. i don't know his religion. i don't know anything else. as soon as i know anything else i will provide you with that information, but i don't really think that that's the path we should be going down here. i've already given all of that information to the families of the victims. it's the top of the hour. we are following major developments, breaking news about the crash of flight 9525. a plausible scenario of

murder/suicide in the skies over france. we are watching right now the prosecutor in marseille, france talking about what is being heard on those recordings and what happened inside the cockpit, and he says the copilot voluntarily, deliberately refused to open the door to let the pilot back in to the cockpit. this is the copilot, who had 630 hours of flight experience. his actions, i quote, were voluntary. he pressed the buttons to deliberately crash the plane. on the report recording you can hear the pilot trying to get back in knocking calling on the innerphone system asking to get back into the cockpit and there is no response. there was absolutely nothing said from inside the cockpit in the final last ten minutes of that flight before it crashed into the alps. now, investigators say what also can be heard on the recording is human breathing. the copilot breathing in a normal way. no sign of a medical emergency.

ruling out completely a heart attack or something like that. again, he repeated several times that this copilot voluntarily pressed the buttons to bring this plane down and, again, there are screams heard in the final moments as the pilot was banging on the door trying to get back in and then impact. let's go back into this news conference. the prosecutor is being asked questions. >> -- we are sure there was no one else in the cockpit at this time. >> translator: the second black box is all of the recording of the actual flight. pressure, temperature. so all of that information will be complementary. in terms of the causes that will allow us to either confirm or deny that there were no other causes here at play. can you tell that i'm a little

conflicted? so when i'm facing this difficult of an know that all of my interests are focused on this. what caused this? there are 500 policemen mobilized. local, national we are totally controlling the security of this crash site. again, you can only access the site via helicopter. finding the bodies is extremely complicated. the soil, the ground, is so difficult to actually cross, because there are rocks sliding around. it is totally complicated

catastrophe site. i'm not -- i can't read the copilot's mind. i can't answer that question. i think that our duty is to provide transparency. just like the transportation ministry had said. and families of the victims, we've welcomed them here so we can all grieve and help figure out what's going on. you know, we have -- we have resources in all three languages, spanish, german, french. so all we can owe people is utmost transparency. this is what the victims deserve. the victims deserve an explanation of what happened as we receive the information.

the families have been flmpled. they know everything you know. we have delivered the same information to them. they asked many, many questions on international law, on whether it was normal that the pilot actually left the cockpit. they asked many, many questions. and what are the legal consequences here for the -- airline society. at this point, i do not know what the legal consequences will be for lufthansa or germanwings. so again, i am delivering what i have to you as we figure things out. we reserved the first black box.

we analyzed it. even though -- >> okay. we just got the name of the copilot involved here. this is the man who was in the cockpit and brought this plane down according to the prosecutor in marseille, france who voluntarily pressed the buttons to descend the plane while apparently locking out the main pilot, outside of the cockpit. his name is andreas lubitz from germany and learning more about his experience and back ground. >> very little experience compared to u.s. pilot requirements. in fact, he didn't have enough hours to fly this kind of plane in the united states. >> unbelievable. >> clearly this is not an experience issue. this is a psychological profile that they're going to be going after. we fwhoe that he lived in germany between frankfurt and bonn. little else is known about him, but it's striking how unequivocal this investigator is being about what they found. the fact the pilot left just to go to the bathroom very routine. the next thing you know he is

manipulating the monitoring the flight monitoring system. he took control of this plane. he said absolutely nothing, and in spite of the fact you can imagine what it was like on that plane, with the pilot pounding on the door pounding on the door, so that they could hear that, and -- no response at all for the last ten minutes. >> let me use his words. 48 hours after this crash and in the first 48 hours of this investigation, terrorism was essentially roomed out. criminal was brought in as a possibility, but everybody was talking about pressurization and what else might have happened to cause an accident. what we have from this prosecutor in marseille, france is pretty unequivocal. he describes a murder/suicide scenario. he says the copilot was in control. this guy, 630 hours of flight experience, as you said in the u.s. that would not be appropriate. that his actions were voluntary, that he pressed the buttons to deliberately crash the plane.

he says on the recording, you can hear the pilot trying to get in, that he actually calls on the inner-telephone the telephone, and is trying desperately to get in banging on the door and that the copilot doesn't respond, not one word in the final ten minutes. but, they can tell that he is alive and breathing and manipulating the controls. there's no sign of a medical emergency. there's no sign of a heart attack. no sign of stress. >> he's breathing normally and trying to be contacted by air traffic control and other people in the region. >> other planes. >> what is also clear is that no one else was in that cockpit. and, according to international protocols, there should have ban flight attendant who intered the cockpit when the pilot left to use the lavatory. so this is a clear violation and already there's been a question about liability for lufthansa,

the parent company, but there are going to be a lot of issues about that protocol. had there been a flight attendant in the cockpit she could have perhaps overridden him. >> first answers for the families' victims and as the prosecutor is giving very clear answers to the questions he's getting right now. let's listen back in. >> translator: you saw the photos of the destruction and the debris. again, i've only had this information since the middle of the night. my collaborators and i are going to be thinking more about this. working on this investigation, but nothing more has been done as of today. so the two family pilot's

family and the copilot's are here, but they have not been blended in with the operations of the other families. but i can't say anymore. i can't say any more. so i know that certain medias have been speculating on this. again, as are today there is zero hypothesis that would confirm any kind of terrorist attack. i know that from the start people are assuming that it may have any kind of link to terrorism, but based upon the investigations that are under way, nothing allows us to confirm that this has anything to do with a terrorist attack. so french police department, again is working very, very closely with judiciary authorities and police authorities from germany.

so again, policemen have been doing tons of investigations. they're trying to collate the maximum amount of information. so again, there's important contact and important collaboration with our german counterparts. so again, normally when we commit suicide, one commits suicide alone. so that's why i can't really speak about the suicide hypothesis. when there are 150 people in the back, it's difficult for me to use the term "suicide" or to qualify this as a suicide. i understand why you're asking the question, why you're raising this as a hypothesis, but -- >> obviously.

we're going to dip back into the press conference going on with the prosecutor in marseille, france in a moment. we need to recap and add information we're getting from other news organizations. actually here at a guest, i'm bringing you in here. you've got the "wall street journal" up. the copilot, we have his name and his -- you've got his age according to the "wall street journal"? >> the "wall street journal" is saying that according to a flight club that he was a member of, 28 years old. >> okay. so this guy's 28 years old andreas lubitz from germany. 638 hours experience after training. andrea mitchell, i won't ask you to surmise but will tell you what this prosecutor is describing is a murder/suicide scenario? >> he's avoiding using those words but saying that the copilot was breathing normally. so he did say that there was no apparent medical issue. that he voluntarily pushed the button putting the plane in descend from 38,000 feet which

eventually, ten minutes later, would take into the mountain. so this was not a case of the autopilot. being on and some other mechanism. and that he did not respond during that ten minutes to any of the air traffic control calls to him, and did not open the door when the door was being banged on by the pilot. >> and thank you. the prosecutor just now we've been monitoring this as we've been talking, confirms as well his age, fairly young. 28 years old. let's jump back in and listen more. >> translator: -- andreas l-o-u-b-i-t-z. i misspoke. it's actually lubitz. i had the spelling wrong. i don't know. i did not receive this until

late, late last night, and then in the middle of the night. so i have only progressively received all of this information. it hasn't been until this morning that i received the more precise information. so i'm very sorry, sincerely sorry that i didn't receive any of this earlier. seeing as i am in charge of this investigation. so, again, this was a little late for my liking. i wish that i could have received this information in realtime only because i want to gain time on this investigation and go as quickly as possible. but that's less your problem than mine. no. i did not personally listen to any of this. these are the investigators who listened to the transcription. but i reserved the transcription minute by minute. it was translated.

no. i didn't do it. again, i'll repeat. i only received this information very recently. i understand your impatience, but i have certain rules, regulations, to adhere to and honestly, i think that in 48 hours we've actually advanced a pretty great deal. one day we will know. but we really need the help of the german authorities. to get certain information. as soon as i'm finished with you i will speak to the investigators again. the families are in a state of complete shock. they had just learned what had happened. they're having a really hard time digesting and believing

that this happened. i was able to respond to the best of my ability. some of the questions were a little too technical, and, you know breached certain laws and protocols, but i answered pretty much the same way i'm answering you now. again, there is clear individual fault --

>> at this moment there is no indication, the scratch -- this crash is a lack of terrorism? [ speaking in foreign language ] language ]language ] language ]. i don't know how you rule that out at this point. >> yeah. >> mika it's tom. do you hear me? >> yes. it is 16 past the hour. tom costello joining live coverage. looking at the criminal side of the crash of germanwings 9525. he's talking, tom, about clear individual fault here. that the actions of the copilot who was the sole person in the cockpit at the time of the crash were voluntary and he was deliberately crashing the plane,

manipulating the buttons that led to its descend. you've been listening as well. give us your insight so far what we've heard. >> reporter: you know, looking at a mass murder investigation. what this boils down to. this individual has killed 149 people. we don't know why. we know that the copilot, andreas lubitz had only about 630 hours of flight time after training. he's 28 years old. that is not a lot of flight hours, as you and i discussed more than an hour ago, for a first officer. certainly would not be qualifying in the united states for first officer. >> tom? >> reporter: yeah? >> can i add, from "the telegraph" the first officer adrea is lubitz young. he was young. 630 hours flight time joined germanwings in september of 2013 as they describe it straight from flight school. from flight training school. >> reporter: yeah. so that -- coming straight out of flight training school and working for an airline is not

even unusual in this country. that happens all the time. we simply are not producing enough pilots out of the military. but you are required to have more hours to become a first officer than 630 hours. i think maybe we need a very clear breakdown on where were those 630 hours, but we're kind of getting out of the story here, because what happened here, obviously, is a mass murder investigation now, and how is it possible that this individual got was able to take control of the plane when the captain left? if they had followed the standard protocols in the united states, a flight attendant should have walked in to that cockpit when the captain walked out to use the lab, a flight attendant would stand in there and then essentially stand guard and when the captain, you know, was trying to get back in knocked on the door put in the keypad that flight attendant would do a visual approval through the peephole in the door to make sure it was in fact the captain. the question is also going to be well did a flight attendant

walk in there and was he or she incapacitated or killed? we clearly don't know. also the terror. can you imagine, for those passengers onboard to hear a pilot banging, let me in let me in let me in and they obviously would have felt the plane descending, they must have realized we have a serious problem and then we are told towards the very end of the tamepe you can hear screaming. >> that is as chilling as it gets and michael goldfarb, let me bring you in and tom jump in after if you want. we talked earlier and you would not rule out a medical emergency, but after hearing this prosecutor describe the breathing, normal breathing. >> yeah. >> absolutely no sign of some sort of medical emergency. he literally ruled out a heart attack and he said that this young pilot deliberately crashed this plane. that there was no response. that the breathing was normal and the only thing they could hear except for ten minutes of normal breathing inside the cockpit, and no response from this young copilot, was the

screams in the final moments before the crash. >> right. >> from people on the plane. >> right. well i think when tom says this is mass murder i mean it's stunning that the prosecutor came out with such transparency and so definitively to say this. you know this is the flip side of 9/11 with locked cockpit doors. the down side is just this kind of situation. but you know, the other thing is is pilot training screening, and psychological evaluation of pilots. lufthansa does a great job. this is germanwings. not that they don't, but that's going to be high on the list not only lack the flight hours but basically, you know the competency of this concern and his psychological profile. clearly those rules have to be tightened asap. >> mika? >> reporter: i would make this point, the airbus community is breathing easier said to only because yesterday there were concerns that there may somebody sort of a fleet-wide problem with the airbus a320.

that would have been awful. what we now know is that plane, we've said all along, is a phenomenal workhorse of a plane with a fantastic safety record. if some pilot, a rogue pilot is intent on crashing it and killing everybody onboard, that's a possibility. >> chris jansing? >> keir simmons remains in france. i'm wondering, this is obviously just happening. this conference is ongoing, but any reaction where you are? >> reporter: chris, people are stunned. we use that kind of terminology all the time in this business, but it really counts here because as the day has progressed, we have learned, first from the "new york times" and then from other news organizations that it was becoming clear that the pilot, or one of the two pilots had locked themselves in the cockpit, but we didn't imagine, as you mentioned, 9the french

prosecutor would come out and make this statement. i think he felt as if he had to frankly, because the whole thing was already emerging. what we are being told about, by that french prosecutor, by the way, chris is that he is asking the german authorities for information on the personality of the copilot. i mean we really know nothing at the moment about this copilot. he does appear to be a german national. you've been talking about the amount of flying hours that he had, and the fact he just had come and joined eded this airline after training. so a lot of investigation will be under way already. >> okay. we lost keir's shot but are covering the breaking news pertaining to flight 9525. the plane that crashed into the alps appearing now to be a murder/suicide. a mass murder investigation now according to the prosecutor in marseille, france, giving a clear description of what happened inside the cockpit as

they got from the voice recording from the black box. let me give awe quick rundown. it is absolutely chilling. the prosecutor says that they're looking at the criminal side of this that there is clear individual fault here. that actions of the copilot inside the cockpit were voluntary. that the copilot was in control and deliberately brought this plane down. this copilot is 28 years old. he had 630 hours of flight time after training. that he is from germany. that he apparently locked the pilot out of the cockpit. it is clear the copilot inside was alive and breathing according to the prosecutor but not responding to the intense knocking of the pilot trying to get in. not responding to the inner phone system that the pilot was trying to call him on and not responding to calls from other planes that then tried to reach out and get some sort of connection with the copilot inside this flight and, also, requests from the ground to respond. requests for distress signals.

there was nothing from this copilot. nothing except normal breathing. as this plane took a ten-minute descent and crashed into the alps. the only thing they can hear at the end, beyond his normal breathing, is screams from passengers and from the pilot in the final moments of flight 9525. we have john cox with us. you've flown this type of plane. the scenario that this prosecutor described tells you what? >> it's chilling, a word overused in most cases, but that's literally my feeling is i'm almost at point of being speechless for a professional pilot to do something like this is beyond my capability to understand it. the prosecutor was very clear in what the evidence that they have is. they appear to be very confident of its accuracy but for someone to do such commit such an act is very hard for me to

understand. one thing talking about the amount of flight time that this pilot had, it is not uncommon in europe for people to enter a commercial flight program and come through the training and go straight into an airline cockpit through an abinitial programs. this is a very intense program and the candidates are screened very carefully. so what happened with this individual to let them get through that process is something that clearly the investigators are going to look at in great depth. >> i know it's not uncommon but you know what? for 48 hours we've had people coming on the airwaves saying know terrorism has been ruled out and this looks like pressure issues, and i'm sorry. gut feelings here were that something went wrong deliberately here and now we're getting word from the prosecutor. so i'm going to push a little bit here and i know we shouldn't jump to any conclusions, but when you have someone coming straight out of flight school and he's 28 years old, that's

different than a pilot in his 40s and 50s who's been flying planes all his life doing this. is it not? and does it lead to potentially considering terrorism? >> not necessarily. i recognize that i was 26 years old when i was hired by the airline. i was an airline captain at 29. i did have nor flight experience, but the age of that individual in and of itself is not a telling bit of evidence. what it does say is that the training processes in europe this abinitial training program has proven extraordinarily effective and the accident incident rates in europe compare to some of the best in the world. so the training process is sound. it's the selection process, and if there was any indicator in this individual's background that would have given a red flag somewhere as he went through training. so it's going to be a focus on the individual. the training program is is well

established an proven. >> okay. chris jansing and the prosecutor, i should point out, says it appeared this had nothing to do with terrorism. just pressing the question. >> that's exactly the point. and i don't know if mike or tom will want -- >> mike will go first. >> weigh in on this. but just as clearly as that investigator said that he deliberately did this that there was a willingness to bring down this plane he said that this was not terrorism, and i'm wondering how they could come to that conclusion? would you assume that at this point, remember he said we're calling on german authorities to help us. would they have already confiscated his computer? would there have already been an investigation into the backgrounds of the pilot and copilot? >> right. i think so, but, you know talk to the families and the victims. this was an act of terror whether it was a lone agent. mika, you've been pushing the point, can it be terrorism? well sure. we -- at this stage agency the prosecutor says it's so preliminary. we haven't done the in-depth investigation. so it's far too premature to say

whether or not it was an act of terror. sure feels like an act of terror or an act of mass murder. >> the next steps right now will be to find out nor aboutmore about the copilot and to get a sense on his background. we know he was living in germany. that doesn't tell us actually where he's ultimately from. there could be more there. we know he's very young. clearly, everyone is telling us here at this point, experts, it's very common to go straight into flying out of flight school. at the same time he is quite young. so we want to update you right now on the very latest breaking news on germanwings flight 9525. just moments ago a french prosecutor confirmed that the copilot was alone in the cockpit at the time of the crash and deliberately allowed the plane to descend. the prosecutor revealed in a dramatic news conference that the copilot could clearly be heard breathing normally inside the cockpit. and refused to open the door for the pilot.

the pilot repeatedly slammed against the door as the copilot stayed silent. screams could also be heard on the black box from the passengers on the plane. here are some of the tragic details we just learned moments ago. >> translator: hear this breathing up until the final point of impact which we assume means that the copilot was living, was alive in the cockpit. then we hear contact from the control tower in marseille, however, there was zero response from the copilot. so air control traffickers -- start asking for a distress signal. again, zero response.

>> translator: the most plausible investigation is that the copilot based on some kind of voluntary abstention again, this was voluntary. this was deliberate. refused to open the cabin door. in order to let the pilot back in. i'll repeat. he refused to let the pilot back in. so he is the one who pressed the button that allowed the plane to begin descending and lose altitude. >> here what we know about the copilot. he has been identified at 28-year-old andreas lubitz a german citizen who joined the company right after training. he had clocked 630 hours of flying time and again, hearing the prosecutor say it it just it doesn't get less chilling. this was voluntary, deliberate. he refused to open the cockpit door. he refused to let the pilot back in.

and he says this michael steele, chris jansing, jonathan capehart, he says this unequivocally. >> it's one of the most horrifying scenarios that you can possibly imagine, if you've ever gotten on a plane. i've been on a plane where they had to make an emergency landing. it's not a good situation to be in. i think that one of the things that they are absolutely going to have to try to tell the families very quickly is what did we know about this pilot? and the thing about youth is and at some point everybody has to start. right? >> right. >> but the longer that you are known, the longer that you are a known quantity the more people can recognize, presumably if something not quite right. >> exactly. >> if there's something that isn't normal for you. >> yeah. i don't want to jump the gun on the question of you know whether or not there's a terrorist connection here, but you cannot given his age, given the amount of time he's had, dismiss that. >> no. >> that takes on a whole different focus now, i think, in

this conversation. >> that's why i asked about the computer. have they taken his computer looked to see? >> his background report. >> he says so clearly that this is not terror. >> anthony ronan, i want to bring you in here. is this a fair question first of all and secondly there's a missing link here. isn't there? isn't there something missing about how that pilot got out and no one else came in? >> yeah. that's completely inexplicable, because it is a violation of international aviation rules. so clearly, there's a violation. this is going to be a significant part of the criminal investigation. relative to the copilot, his age and his background when we conduct criminal investigations they are intense and detailed. every person he knew and had contact with will be interviewed at length. not once not twice probably numerous times. his family will be interviewed. some individuals may be put

under surveillance. all of his laptops, telephones electronic devices, will undergo first normal examination, then forensic examination. every contact he has had with anyone electroniclechelectronically by phone in any matter will be examined for of the last several years. his religious affiliations his educational affiliations all of that will be done. so the answers will come but it will take some time. >> let me bring in tom costello who rejoins us. tom, i want to ask you about that missing link because we got so much clear information from this prosecutor about what did and did not occur according to what was heard on voice recordings, and, also the attempts to reach this pilot, copilot, not just from the pilot himself banging on the door but on the interphone on the plane, but other planes trying to maintain contact or obtain contact with him and the attempts to obtain contact with him from the ground.

he did not respond, and he deliberately descended this plane into the ground. this is according to the prosecutor, but what we don't understand and what brings to mind do you think, the fact that he was in there alone? that the pilot left, and no one went in there? it is -- >> yeah. i think we have -- a couple of questions here. we need to understand from lufthansa, which owns germanwings and also from what the protocols are in europe. in the united states as we have said, if a captain or anybody walks out of the cockpit, a flight attendant goes in and stands there and watches the door so that when that pilot is able to return having used the lavatory that first officer that is flying the plane, the flight attendant verifies who's at the door and let's the pilot or copilot back in. the question did that happen in this jace if so, what happened to that flight attendant? >> exactly. >> was that flight attendant murdered?

wesimply don't know. >> we've all seen that take place. the flight attendant goes close to the door he or she actually staffs the departure from the cockpit. goes in. another swun standing there. there's a barrier in place. this is not something that just happens casually. >> that's right. they pull the beverage cart off often so somebody can't rush the cockpit. all thought out and as anthony mentioned throughout the morning that flight that cockpit door the flight deck door is so reinforced. it's so robust you can't break it down. that's by design following 9/11. but clearly, in the case of a rogue pilot, that creates just a whole new set of emergencies. >> there may have been a scuffle. >> i should tell you, there's an ax in the cockpit. in the cockpit. not on the back side of the cockpit. it you're looking at, is it possible that he might have killed the flight attendant? he would have had a weapon.

that clearly is one possibility. you know we yesterday and the day before were saying let's not rule anything out here. and let's keep in mind the possibility of a criminal event. i was the one saying that, but i was not thinking at that moment the possibility of a pilot having done this. there are a few instances according to you know investigations around the world in which pilots have done this. pilots have crashed a plane. you know about egypt air, for example, which egyptians still take issue with and disagree with that conclusion by the ntsb and there have been others around the world in which pilots have gone rogue and we still don't know what happened to malaysia flight 370. the theerpsy that that pilot may have gone rogue, killed everybody onboard, but as it relates to germany and lufthansa and that airline, you can imagine right now there is going to be not only a thorough investigation, as would you expect, but also they're going to have go go back and look at all of their policies in terms

of who they hire, in how they do background checks what kind of a psychological screening are they doing and i assure you that will spread not only through germany but 5ir7bd thearound the world. you will see a refocus on the policies and background checks throughout europe and i'm sure they will double down here in the united states as well because this is not a fly-by-night carrier. this is not some carrier that pops up every few years in the middle east and they're gone after a few years or asia for example. this is lufthansa and its budget airline. one of the most prestigious names in aviation fop have this happen to their pilots flying this germanwings plane is just stunning t. is. michael steele? >> back to the point you were making about what transpired or potentially transpired in the cockpit with respect to the pilot there and whether or not the stewardess came in. if that's the case if someone else entered in there, would not that have been picked up on the

recording? >> they don't hear it. >> so that would lead you to believe, if you don't have that sound of someone else being in there that there was no one in there except for the copilot, correct? >> if that, in fact, is what happened was there a breach of protocol or you know i heard anecdotically this morning but don't have it con dpreet lufthansa, that it's kind of at the captain's diskregs wethcretion whether they want snoun stand in there. if that's the case then you've seen the side effect, the result of that. >> we're putting the pieces together rather rapidly at this point and the prosecutor saying they've briefed 9 families -- >> mika sorry to interrupt you. when talking about the prosecutor, i myself was really taken aback by how forthright this french prosecutor was. you know the french and -- are

generally a lot more reserved in what they announce and how they announce it and how much information they give out. the fact that he was so forthcoming and so detailed. >> it was incredible. >> really telling. really. >> we all were saying the same thing here on the set. we all were absolutely in aghast as every word that came out of his mouth, because it brought so much clarity, so much information and, you know this morning we still sort of scratching our heads as to why we were not given the names of the pilots. we just wanted the names of the pilots. he gave a lot more than that. the scenario of murder/suicide. chris? >> while it doesn't change the horror that the loved ones have lost someone all of these people who are lost, there is always in situations like this any kind of tragedy, this need for knowledge, and i think one of the good things that that investigator did this morning was to give them information. >> yes. >> absolutely. i want to go through what he said. it's incredible but really crystallizes the horror of the

crash of flight 9525. this is 48 hours later. they got voice recordings and audio recordings from the cockpit, from the black boxes and 48 hours later this is what they can tell us and then we'll play some of this riveting news conference that happened moments ago in marseille. the copilot voluntarily, deliberately refused to open the cockpit door and let the pilot back in after he left. that he was in control of the plane. this man has 630 hours of flight time experience after leaving flight school. he's 28 years old and from germany. the prosecutor from france handling the criminal side of this investigation were voluntary. that he "pressed the buttons deliberately to crash the plane." on the recording he says you can hear the copilot breathing. you could hear the pilot trying to get back in first knocking, then calling on the interphone in the plane, then knocking violently.

then other planes are trying to reach this plane to attain contact with this plane as well. they're trying to get contact with this copilot from the ground as well. nothing. no response. but they do know that there's no medical emergency going on. they don't hear heavy breathing or thrashing going on. they hear methodic's controlled, normal breathing but a refusal to respond, and those were his words. he refused to respond. it meant the copilot was alive, the prosecutor said and that he was refusing to open the door refusing to et will the pilot back in and deliberately crashing this plane into the ground. 150 people onboard this flight. the victims cries were heard only in the final moments, but you can only imagine that they saw what was unfolding in front of them with the pilot desperately trying to get back in. so again, he calls this clear individual fault, actions voluntary, the copilot was in control of this plane when it went down. let's listen to the prosecutor in marseille.

>> translator: we hear this breathing up until the final point of impact which we assume means that the copilot was living, was alive in the cockpit. then we hear contact from the control tower in marseille. however, there is zero response from the copilot. so air control trafficker ss start asking for a distress signal. again, zero response. >> translator: the most plausible investigation is that the copilot based on some kind of voluntary abstention again, this was voluntary. this was deliberate refused to open the cabin door. in order to let the pilot back in.

i'll repeat. he refused to let the pilot back in. so he is the one who pressed the button that allowed the plane to begin descending and lose altitude. >> again, the prosecutor in marseille, before we go to keir in france jonathan caphart. >> talk ak the forthrightness of the french prosecutor making me think of all the other voices we have yet to hear from. so we need to hear from as chris pointed out, the germans, what they've done on their end. remember, the flight starteded in spain, in barcelona. we need to hear from the spanish authorities to see what they've been able to find out about what the pilot and the copilot did before they took off. if anything. we need to hear from u.s. authorities to see what kind of information they've learned and specifically i'm looking forward to seeing what police -- new york police commissioner bill bratton can find out. as we all know the nypd has police officers around the world, and when anything like this happens, they send someone

there to see if there's a terrorism angle. so i'd be curious to flare billhear from bill bratton if he agrees or has information to corroborate about no terrorism. >> and the white house monitoring as well. certain signs from josh earnest this morning, weren't revealing the names of the pilots but clearly knew. go to keir simmons, of course live on the scene in france. keir? >> reporter: well mika just absolutely stunned, shock and devastation here at this news that has been breaking over the recent hour and let me just make clear for your viewers exactly why it is that the french prosecutor has reached this conclusion that this was a deliberate attack i mean in a sense it was an attack on the other 149 passengers onboard this plane. the door into the cockpit can be opened from the outside by another crew member unless

there was a fault in that door then was deliberately locked and kept locked by the copilot inside. the french prosecutor says that the controls of the plane were deliberately manipulated in order to bring the plane down into the mountain range, the alps, that you can see behind me here. now, as the french prosecutor says, the copilot, as far as we can tell appears to have been pretty much quiet during this devastating descent into this mountain range, but he can be heard to be breathing. so therefore, the prosecutor says, he was clearly alive. so what was he doing? why was he doing it? mika, there are so many questions being asked in this part of the world now because, of course, germany is just right next door really and it is there that the copilot was from. the french prosecutor says that he has asked the german authorities for psychological information about the copilot. that investigation would of course be under way, because

another point, mika is that we believe that the pilot left that cockpit in order to go to the restroom. so one assumes, then that the copilot wouldn't have known prior to this event that that might have happened. so was it planned or was it something that the copilot did on the spur-of-the-moment, if you like? all of these questions are going to need to be answered in the coming days. >> keir simmons, thank you. chris jansing? >> and what we heard early on in the press conference was it was all very normal what they heard on the voice recorder asking the co-fight start taking deeing command. you hear the door close. a very normal korgs and then that breathing you never heard even in the very last minutes leading up to impact anything that indicated a change in breathing. nothing that indicated he said anything. absolute silence in the cockpit it is to me horrifying to think ow cold and calculating this

seems to have been. >> tom costello rejoins us. tom, it was, again, cool and normal inside the cockpit in terms of even the interaction between the pilot and the copilot. >> reporter: yeah. you know honestly this story sickens me. it literally makes me sick to my stomach to think somebody has done this and killed all of those people. i was also struck by the body language of the prosecutor. i don't know if we have a shot there, but his hand was shaking a little bit. he kept rubbing his bald head as if he was in complete disbelief and this also had rattled him. to think that somebody a 28-year-old who presumably had so much ahead of him, with the great career presumably at lufthansa and who had then look at him. look at him. just in disbelief, and then to do this. you know how many 28-year-olds would love to have a job like that, but who knows what kind of personal herbissues he might have

been dealing with. i assure you they'll look at that very closely to determine what, if anything was in his background to give clues he was capable of something lying this but, you know very often, as i've talked to psychologists in the wake of the 370, everybody analyzing this pilot from afar. talked to many psychologists and psychiatrists, often there are no outer signs of mental illness, or of a criminal intent like that, that you and i may not even pick up on what somebody's intentions may be. so it just makes this all the more distressing. by the way, we're also looking into whether this particular copilot andreas lubitz might have been certified in the united states. we'll look into that and try to get that information as well. >> all right. i think that is the next step tom. the next step will be his background, his ethnicity, his his -- computer. what was on there? and any types of leanings that

might indicate there might be some sort of terrorism connection to this. >> reporter: and one more thing. there has been this labor trouble that lufthansa has been dealing with over the last few weeks, and, in fact if i'm not mistaken, there was a planned strike involving pilots this week. so i can assure you, prosecutor are going to be looking at that and whether in any way that played a role. >> anthony roman is still with us. any other questions at this point beyond going straight into the background of that copilot and starting there? >> well i think they're going to speak to his parents. we just received information from some of my staff that he lived with his parents, that he was a member of this flying club that you so cited. he began his flying aspirations as a glider pilot, and quickly moved up into powered airplanes. now, the lufthansa training program, i am familiar with it. it's an accelerated pilot

training program to become a professional jet pilot, and it undere goes undergoes rigor ouz screenings. in the phase they can be washed out at any time. they begin their airerobics training very early in this career which is unusual compared to american standards. the more like a military standard. so lufthansa and germanwings are going to be perplexed, because this has been a successful training program for decades. >> and, tom, it's clear that the ground control and other planes knew they had a rogue pilot flying this plane. that nobody could reach. >> reporter: or they had -- they may have been thinking there's an unresponsive pilot. they didn't know what was going on. they may have been thinking

there was a medical emergency, or as we were yesterday this may have been a catastrophic in-flight decompression type of situation. and that's why they kept trying to raise the pilot. but no response. that was puzzling us yesterday. we kept saying to ourselves, okay. there was a programmed descent. because it was orderly. it wasn't erratic, inkaeding hede kating he was indicating he was going by stick. why not issue a radio message or a transponder code. trying to figure under what scenario? late yesterday, a lot of stuff on the blogosphere out there, pilot blog openly speculating, saying sources are telling them that the windshield had gone and quite likely the pilots were sucked out. i mean that was all on the internet. we didn't report any of it, but and now to find out that -- but

you can imagine. that was the air traffic controllers thinking about this as well. now to find out quite the contrary. somebody was indeed at the controls and intent on this, as i've described this a mass murder is really shaking. >> chris? >> tom, as they're looking into the things that obviously they would normally do in the course of an investigation, as they said, look at all of this electronic devices, look into this computers and so on not just the analysis of it which maybe is separate from the actual getting of the information, how long could something like that take? >> reporter: oh, you know i've got to tell you, i'm not an expert, of course, on what the german and french police are going to do. i can say this however that the french can conduct criminal investigations that last years and years and years. you know they conducted a criminal investigation into the 2000 downing of the concord, a mistake, an accident. what happened is concord took

off from paris charles de gaulle and picked up a piece of metal left on the tarmac and it was sucked into the engine. that, in fact, actually -- i think what happened it blew a tire because of that piece of metal. nonetheless, my point, the french conducted a criminal investigation that lasted for years and years and years and something like eight to ten years later they actually charged a worker for i believe it was continental airlines who they blamed continental, because the piece of metal fell off of a u.s. airline, a u.s. plane. so my point being, they can drag out and they have a history of dragging out these prosecutions and investigations for years and years and years. in this case it's not a situation where they are looking for a suspect, rather digging deep. i suspect you'll see that from both the french and the germans and probably the spanish. >> all right. we're going to roll some of the sound bites from this incredible press conference that happened in the past hour in marseille. the prosecutor in charge of the criminal angle here in terms of

the crash of flight 9525. he describes what happens inside that cockpit and does not -- he doesn't mince words. take a listen. >> translator: again, zero distress signal. zero snell of emergency or s.o.s. nothing of the sort was received by any air traffic controllers. nothing like help me help me s.o.s., nothing was received by the air traffic controllers. and no response. no response. there was zero zero response to any of the air traffic controllers attempts to contact the people inside the plane. >> translator: jointly, the most plausible investigation is that the copilot, based on some kind of voluntary abstention -- again, this was voluntary. this was deliberate refused to open the cabin door.

in order to let the pilot back in. i'll repeat. he refused to let the pilot back in. >> translator: so all i can say right now is the copilot has every power in the book in order to pilot this plane alone. he has the experience. he has the training. he been working for lufthansa for ten years. >> translator: in reality, he had zero reason to do so. there was zero reason for him to prevent his copilot or his pilot from returning into the cabin. seer ereason for not responding to the air control trafficker warning him about this descent. zero reason for refusing to type some kind of code and alert signal to the rest of the planes in the region. so what about this hypothesis about some kind of psychological illness? so, again, for now it's only

been 48 hours. again, all we know is that the copilot was breathing normally. it wasn't nine was in the middle of having a heart attack, for example. he uttered not one word. complete and total silence. >> translator: what about the pilot and the rest of the flight attendants? we asked this question in another form earlier. i think the victims only realized what was going on really at the last minute. because in the data that we can listen to, you can only hear cries right at the end. right before the point of impact. all right. we are now obviously looking at a multi-national investigation. there's so many answers to get from different angles. chris jansing what will the white house look at today? >> in close contact with the

investigators over there and there are american there's as well and we heard from the white house this morning where josh earnest was on-set they're being kept up to date. obviously the president made calls to the leaders of germany and spain, but there were three americans onboard that plane. andrea mitchell pointed out you dough meant to about dual citizenship. always a possibility there could be more. the state department continues to look sha that possibility. >> approaching the top of the hour. an update what we've learned over the past two hours. incredible. the prosecutor in france giving a crystal clear chilling and terrifying description of the final ten minutes of flight 9525, before it crashed into the alps. what can be heard on the audio inside the cockpit of that flight is unspeakable in some ways. mass murder in the skies over the french alps. the copilot adrea is lubitz from germany at the controls of the this plane. just out of flight school. has about 630 hours of flight

experience. he went straight from flight training school to lufthansa, to flying for germanwings. he's 28 years old. his background will be under heavy investigation, it is right now. he apparently locked the pilot out of the cockpit. there was a cool normal discussion between the two pilots in the moments leading up to him, the pilot leaving the cockpit, and then the horror begins. the prosecutor describes somehow the cockpit door is locked. there are questions there as positive howto how that happened. usually it's a meticulous transaction, a flight attendant helps with that sometimes goes into the cockpit, but there's a barricade put up. something happened there. we do not know. we do know this. it can be heard on the audio recordings the pilot is knocking trying to get back in. he calls on the inner phone, attempts from the ground to reach the copilot. attempts from other planes to reach the copilot. no response. the prosecutor fills in the

branch from there saying the copilot was in control of this plane and that his actions were voluntary. that he pressed the buttons deliberately to crash the plane, he's heard breathing. there's no sign of a medical emergency, but no words as well from his mouth. the prosecutor using these words, there is clear, individual fault here. there are missing links but we are looking at a mass murder in the skies over the french alps. jose picks up our coverage from here. stay with us for breaking news on msnbc. good morning. i'm jose diaz-balart. breaking news right now on "the rundown" rundown". the copilot of the plane that crashed in the alps apparently took down the plane on purpose. the prosecutor says the copilot intentionally set the plane into its fatal descent after the captain left the cockpit,

quote/unquote. >> translator: the most plausible investigation is that the copilot based on some kind of voluntary abstention -- again, this was voluntary. this was deliberate refused to open the cabin door. in order to let the pilot back in. he pressed the button for a reason that we cannot seem to understand. but we'd