we begin with breaking news at this hour here in new york. the new york city fire department responding at this moment to a building collapse in manhattan's east village. you can see the new footage there. the fire department saying they're responding to what they believe is a gas leak. this is brand new and simply unclear at this point what caused this sort of building collapse or any injuries or other problems related to it on the scene. that is what we know. we are going to bring updates further on the story to you this hour as we get them regarding this problem there in a new york building downtown. we are also of course following the latest developments on the germanwings plane crash in the french alpes. the crash that investigators now believe was a mass murder. today the hunt is on for more information about annddreas andreas lubitz.

today it was said he was deliberately believed to have flown that plane with 150 innocent people on board directly to the fatal decent. according to the prosecutor, here's what we know. the cockpit recorder revealing he locked the pilot out of the cockpit. you can see here ne a photo taken just days before the crash, and that the other pilot could be heard banging on the door. there is no sound from lubitz within the cockpit there. he can be heard calmly breathing up until the moment of impact. the prosecutor saying today lubitz intentionally pushed a button to down the plane, but he couldn't fathom the motive. >> translator: he pressed the button, for a reason that we cannot seem to understand. but we would like to analyze it by some kind of deliberate action and willingness to destroy this plane. he uttered not one word. complete and total silence. >> today police could be seen outside lubitz's home in germany, which he shares with his parents.

authorities confirming that home has already been searched along with his apartment in dusz dusseldorf. the most recent security check of him was back on january 27th and they don't believe it found anything unusual. meanwhile, the parent company of germanwings saying today he was stunned by the revelations, but he has he says, full confidence in his pilots. >> without any doubt, my firm confidence, can the select of our pilots and the training of our pilots and the qualification of our pilots and the work of our pilots has not been touched by this single tragedy. >> there is no doubt now that there are so many questions still left to be answered. most particularly for families of these victims who gathered today for a memorial near the crash site. now today the state department here in the u.s. identifying a third american killed on the flight. you can see him there. robert oliver. his father saying from barcelona, he is waiting to go

to the crash site. >> we would like to go when something can be identifieded. one of their belongings can be identified. then of course we would like to go. but for the moment we prefer to be with our grandchildren and wife of our son. >> joining me now on the scene, nbc news correspondent claudia and lania, international captain at a major u.s. airline with 27 years flying experience and former ntsb board member. it is dark where you are, claudio, you've been nonmonitoring the developments well into the night. including both the investigation and the memorial. what can you tell us now? >> reporter: well we just learned from german prosecutors that they are looking for clues that may suggest or explain what drove this young man, the 28-year-old andreas lubitz to fly his plane into the mountain

along with 149 other passengers and crew. i'm so sorry. obviously been up very late. they are saying that they are looking for particularly family matters or debt problems and they are also planning to speak to pilots that have been working with andreas in the past weeks or months to see whether they have noticed anything in andreas or in this young copilot that may have suggested or explained or see whether there's anything going on in his life that may suggest or explain this drastic -- this drastic action that he took on tuesday morning. we also learned from the spanish transport minister who was here about half an hour ago. he told me that most of the families -- that most of the family members the 200 family members who came here for that memorial today in the afternoon have left and then went back to

marseille and their home countries. about 600 spanish family members decided to stay over in seynes-les alpes, and possibly they'll go back to the memorial tomorrow. >> stay with me, claudio. i want to try to begin to p uz l out this mote i have. we're talking about what they're looking out from the investigative side. they said he left his training in 2009 due to quote, some kind of burnout syndrome. again, we don't know a lot about this individual. but in your view in your experience with what pilots go through, what do you make of that? is. >> i think the entire aviation community, from a professional standpoint is in shock. this is somewhat of a blow to all of us. we're all suffering from this guy's breach of confidence to our passengers. we take our responsibility and professionalism very serious. i think the investigators will have to take a very close look at whether or not this gentleman was depressed. did other crew members, flight

attendants pilots have difficultyfullying with them? did he have an individual problem flying with this captain? was this captain difficult to fly with? all of that is relevant with the investigation. i'm sure kitty with ntsb can speak with that. that has been a problem in the past. there a famous crash in mexico city where difficulties between the captain and the first officer resulted in the first officer ignoring what he knew to be true about equipment on the runway. the captain to land on it despite the first officer's insis insistance and they all died. he gave up and shut down. maybe it was a problem between the two of them. >> you mentioned kitty's investigative experience. go ahead kitty. what are your thoughts? >> well i think your guesses are correct. the crew research management, the relationship between the copilot and the captain are extremely important, as well as with the flight attendants. in this case we know the captain

was out of the cabin. and in the course of any investigation, they -- the investigators will look at the history of the flying pilot. in this case the copilot. they will interview his family. they will interview his friends. they will interview his coworkers. they will look at his medical history. they will look at his computer. anything to identify a motive for why he might have done this. or something about his personal or mental health. >> and when you look at the discussion kitty, about these requirements, obviously, some differences have been exposed here today as people look at the fact that the u.s. has stricter requirements on two pilots together. is that important, or do you think people are overemphasizing that? obviously if one of the pilots is a potential mass murder that's a bigger problem than any procedure about who is with them. >> exactly. i mean the idea of having a flight attendant in the cockpit is not to monitor or fly the

plane. it's really to be the next level of safety so that when that knock comes on the door she or he can verify that it is the pilot who had left. i think as this investigation goes forward, as we get to the recommendation stage we will always want to look at what -- to take another look at the safety requirements that we currently have. i mean we locked the door from the inside. should there be a way from the outside to override it? people have talked about cameras. i'm not sure -- that wouldn't have done anything here other than shown us the copilot. so, we all need to sort of just work through this and think about what other things we should be considering. and i'm personally believing there should be one level of safety. so what we learn in this accident should then become the norm and the policy that we follow everywhere. >> and as a pilot, when you look at the ceo basically saying, sure they're reviewing procedures, but they're not making changes now, and that he

has full confidence as we showed in the audio, full confidence in their procedures your thoughts on that and is that the right tone, or perhaps a little too confident at this juncture? >> i think they're being just and very careful in their analysis of the the action. waiting for these to come ut. i must admit, i was shocked they didn't have a similar protocol having a flight attendant come in as we do any time another crew member leaves the cockpit, to protect the door, to verify it is the captain or first officer returning on the other side of the door. and i would add this is a somewhat small airline. very intimate. people know each other. the gentleman flew as a flilgtght attendant before in 2009 with the airline. many people knew about him, had worked with him. the investigators should have a very realistic chance of determining what his disposition was and whether he had nefarious

things in his past including a disposition that wasn't appropriate for a pilot of a-320 with only 636 hours or whatever it was. >> and before we go i want to ask a basic question back to claudio at the scene. we've been talking to you the whole time since this began. and as of late yesterday, it was still viewed as a tragic massive disaster and loss of life. as of late last night, as you have been reporting, it became based on the new information, a mass crime scene, the scene of a mass murder. has it changed the feeling and the mood there, or because it was so terrible do begin with it's generally been the same tough times as long as you've been on the scene? >> let me tell you, i spoke to a number of locals and taxi drivers who had taken us back and forth. they were all telling me the same thing. it's french for incredible. they could just note believe this could have happened. they were already traumatized for this tragic accident. but never could they imagine that it will be a young man, a

28-year-old young man, a copilot driving that plane, flying that plane right into the mountain killing everybody else. >> yeah absolutely. i can understand those feelings as everyone tries to make sense of this terrible situation. nbc's claudio, latane campbell and kitty, thank you all for your expertise. and coming up we'll have more on the 27-year-old copilot of this germanwings flight. what could have motivated him to crash in plane directly into the french alps. and as i told you at the top of the hour. more on the brand new news. the building collapse here in downtown new york. you're looking at pictures just off east 7th street. local nbc affiliate covering that. as we know more we'll tell you everything we can gather about what's happening. stay with us. try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.

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officials saying they're responding to what they believe is a gas leak and as we reported earlier, simply unclear at this point what has caused this collapse. we're seeing images of smoke there from the building. msnbc's anna brand joins us by phone from the scene. anna, tell me where are you standing and what can you see at this point? >> right now i'm on 7th street, about an avenue west of where the fire is happening. right now it's a lot of smoke. fire trucks roaming around the street. a lot of people out with cameras. the smoke is coming up above the building. very visible. very smoky. people are coughing and a lot of police on the ground. caution tape all around the

streets. the streets are blocked off. >> the footage we're seeing from our vantage point does show plumes of smoke rising actively. we're looking at that. we can see the remnants of what is believed to be this building collapse and what officials believe relates to a believed gas leak. and in the area there where you are, as you said, about an avenue over from as i was telling viewers, a very busy stretch. a busy congested part of the area, what is the scene around there? does it seem under control or a lot of people in cars moving or stuck? >> reporter: it's extremely chaotic. people are moving around. they are taking pictures and videos. people are trying to get them away from the streets. people are trying to get them to the middle of the streets. they're roaming around. extremely chaotic. the police here have advocated

for trying to get them to move out of the streets. this is right outside of the intersection. the smoke is rising up above the building. and that's the style five minutes ago is when they blocked off the streets going east towards 2nd avenue completely. >> and anna we can see from our footage, we can see a lot of smoke rising up from the building area there. # we can see in some of the cameras that we've had, the firefighters actively trying to deal with what looks to be an active fire in addition to whatever the building collapse is. from your vantage point, about a block or avenue away how many police and firefighters can you see?

>> reporter: there are about three trucks in the streets now that i'm seeing. just right here on 7th street where where i am. five or six police officers. they are roaming the streets trying to get people to stay in place, stay away are the the middle of the road. and i see officers going down into the streets, trying to get closer to the fire. there are fire truck trucks lined up on 7th street closer to where the building is. i can't see the building itself. >> okay anna hold on with us. we're also going to bring in adam reese, who is also reporting on -- as we've been telling folks, this fire in lower manhattan. fdny officials saying at least one person critically injured. but the firefighters are on the scene. adam, if you can hear me there, i know it's chaotic. can you tell me where you are and what they can see?

>> i'm on the corner of 9th street and first avenue. i was just briefed by one of the chiefs here it is still an active fire. there are two buildings that are active. they are responding. 50 units have responded so far. 200 firefighters on the scene. i'm told these are old tenant buildings. partially levelled as part of the explosion. currently a fire in two of the buildings. as you know, this comes about a year after the explosion in harlem that we believe was related to gas. again, firefighters here on the scene are trying to put out the fire. they are not sure if there's more people in the building. they're searching now. ari. >> yeah, adam and we don't have information yet about any kind of inhabitants there. we do know as you mentioned,

these kind of building in lower manhattan tend to be crowded. they are walk-up building. six or seven floors with several apartments to a floor. this fire occurring here late in the afternoon. we just don't know how many people were inside. from wnbc our local affiliate, we have one building collapsed and an operating fire and the two others that you mentioned, adam. from your vantage point, is it a scene that feels under control or chaotic as anna was telling us from her place about a block away. away. >> i think it's coming under control, ari. there are multiple units on site. it seems to be under control. i'll have a better view of it in a minute as i come around the corner. if now it seems under control. >> and you said you did speak with officials for the new york fire department but that was informal. no press briefing or larger announcement at this point. >> correct. i think they're getting ready to have a briefing soon.

50 units on the scene. 200 firefighters. these are old tenent buildings. partially collapsed from what they believe to be an explosion. currently a fire in two buildings. >> all right, adam reese and anna brand, today safe. wo people in critical condition after this building collapse there in a congested part of downtown manhattan, the east village. firefighters and police on the scene. it's believed to be according to new york officials, related to a gas leak. we will keep you updated on the story as we gather new information from the ground and city officials. and we'll have more after the break. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time. and 2% back at the grocery store. even before she got 3% back on gas all with no hoops to jump through.

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they are pounding the country with bombs. this is an effort to stop the advance of the rebels who seized control of the capital city of sanaa in september. now although no u.s. planes are involved in the air strikes in yemen, the u.s. is apparently providing logistical and intelligence support to the coalition. now iran is denouncing the saudi campaign today calling it u.s.-backed aggression. it's a complex picture. we have nbc's foreign correspondent. host of "road map" onto help explain. >> we're talking about why yemen is so important. this map lays it out for you. more importantly, it sits on one of the most important waterways right here that leads all the oil supplies from the persian gulf through the southern port and through the suiz canal to the rest of the world. that's one of the main reasons it's important. what is actually happening

inside yemen? well, it's a complex fight. these are the shias. they're fighting with the central government. you also have terrorist groups like al qaeda and isis who are carrying out attacks, trying to disrupt the central government as well as the huthi rebels. now you have the gulf coalition countries. and these involve saudi arabia, and i'm going to put up this map here. all of them participating in this to try to slow down the advance of those rebels. this is why it matters to the united states very briefly. counterterrorism operations as well as the geography we highlighted and to pry to prevent iran from getting another foothold in another arab country, so to speak, as well as from preventing it from becoming a completely isis state. >> you mentioneded constraining iran. you mentioned they have a

foothold in tikrit. what is iran's angle in all of this? >> so we'll bring up a map of iraq. in tikrit you have isis which has controlled the northwestern part of iraq for several months now. ful they are now coming under attack by both the u.s. coalition, the international coalition and u.s. air strikes, but on the ground the troops that are actually fighting on the ground are shia militias backed by iran as well as the army. on one hand you have the united states stopping or fighting against or helping support arab countries, fighting against those militias in yemen, but in iraq, you have the united states carrying out air strikes that are also helping those shia militias backed by iran. it's an irony in two different countries. >> stay with me. i want to bring in national security policy in the middle east and south asia from cap. the center for american progress. and aman is going to continue to give us more insight here. brian, this is a complicated but, it would seem that even if people aren't following every piece of the map, we seem to

have a pro and a con approach to iran at the same time. we seem to be trying to constrain and help them. >> the dominant thing we're trying to do with iran is to lock down the nuclear program in the diplomatic negotiations secretary kerry is leading right now. but the playing field in the middle east, as iman very smartly sort of outlined there is tremendously complicated, and even in the operation in tikrit what you see happening are is the shia militias backed by iran. they've pulled back a little bit in protest of the u.s. strikes. and this has happened over the last day or so. and one o f the militias threatened to shoot at u.s. planes. and so it shows you how complicated, even in the places where it seems like we may be leaning or lining towards iran and frankly, i think the the u.s. has had this very red sent approach.

if we pick sides and don't stay focused on the fundamentals counterterrorism and our interests, we could risk being drawn in. >> and "the new york times" reporting today, as you're referencing, three shiite militias quit over the u.s. air role. and leon panetta was speaking about this on our air a few hours ago, and basically saying part of what we want to do is simply to constrain iran and iraq, not for orr goals, which again, i think is confounding to some people. let's listen to that. >> i think it is very important for the united states now to take a more leading role with regards to providing support for the iraqis and going after tikrit, not only to try to push isis back but also to try to reduce the influence of iran in that region of the world.

and that's with records to the houthi is, in yemen. >> do you buy that? does that reduce iran's influence if successful? >> good luck in actually doing that. if you look back the 2003 iraq war, when we went in it created a lot of mistakes. but one of the biggest mistakes is we ended a policy of dual containment. we contained saddam hussein under iraq who didn't have nuclear weapons, and we contained iran. and that war led to an expansion of iranian influence, and, you know, the rest is like watching gravity take place. so we might be able to tweak things along the margins. but quite simply over the last ten years, we've seen iraq move more into the sphere of iran, and it's not totally, you know a proxy for them. but it's going to be hard to do what secretary panetta suggests and actually have, you know a strategy on the ground. >> right. >> that will really constrain iraq. >> and briefly as we look back o the map that you were

explaining, who is currently the big winner in that neighborhood? >> well without a doubt, iran. iran right now, regardless of this particular strike. iran has now a very strong foothold in several arab countries. including lebanon, syria, iraq yemen, and if you take in some of the shiite populations like bahrain, there's no doubt they have a tremendous amount of influence in the region. >> this is complicated stuff. but very important. and you've helped me understand it a little better. it's a one day at a time kind of thing. thank you. appreciate it. and don't forget to catch "road map" wednesdays on 10:00 a.m. on shift. it goes deeper with i fair to say even more maps. we are also following some breaking news out of illinois where two men, one a national guardsman, had been arrested for conspireing to support isis. now according to federal officials, a 22-year-old army national guard specialist was involved in this. they've arrested him now at chicago's midway international airport. while they say he was trying to

fly to cairo, egypt. and his cousin a 29-year-old named jonas edmunds arrested in aurora. the allegations is the cousins were going to plan an attack on a military post inside the united states, in illinois. now just ahead, we will have more on that building collapse we've been following in new york city and more on the tragic developments in the crash of jer german wings flight. aneous moment. so why pause to take a pill? and why stop what you're doing to find a bathroom? with cialis for daily use, you don't have to plan around either. it's the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache.

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we are following breaking news out of new york city this hour. two people have been critically injured in a building collapse in manhattan's east village. that's downtown manhattan. a crowded area. multiple people being treated directly on the scene. wnbc reporting mayor de blasio is in route to the damaging disaster scene really. joining me now, msnbc's adam reese on the phone. what can you see right now? >> ari, i'm right at the scene, which is on 2nd avenue on new

york's lower east side. we saw a search dog as well as a respiratory unit. three ladders are up fighting the fire. one group of firefighters on the ground fighting the fire. there's essentially one big gaping hole where it used to be and then the facade of the building next it had been torn away. >> so adam i want to be clear, especially for folks just joining us. you are downtown and you are looking at basically the remains, and there's no more seven-story building there. >> reporter: that's correct. and not only is there not a building there, but basically, the backside of the building next door to it has been torn away. as i mentioned earlier, at least 50 units here. 200 firefighters. mf o many of the firefighters are standing next to me with the

oxygen units waiting to go in. we heard five minutes ago a sort of boom. not sure what it was related to. i'm sure they're being wary of going near will in case there's a secondary explosion. they continue to burn and continue to fight the fire. heavy black smoke is billowing into the air. >> and adam as we're looking at that, we have live footage of firefighters outside the building spraying their water into there. have you seen any firefighters enter that adjacent building or what i guess is the remains? >> reporter: i have not, ari. a lot of these are blocking my view of the ground level of the building. but i can tell you dozens if not a 100 firefighters are here on the perimeter, and right now we're seeing stretchers being brought into the area.

yo i don't know if that's for injured or on standby. but again, all the firefighters are standing by. i haven't seen any firefighters actually go into the rubble. >> msnbc's adam reese reporting from that scene downtown in the east village with the building collapse. thank you. we go now to msnbc's anna brand, also on the scene in a different area. what can you see right now, anna? >> reporter: so right now i'm on 7th street in cooper square. all of the smoke is rising above the buildings in heavy black smoke pret the i quickly. there are people flooding the streets that are now blocked off. and smoke is really getting in people's faces. they are covering their mouths with scarves. putting their clothes over their mouths. i don't see as many firefighters right here. it's mostly police officers trying to calm the scene right here. and i think the subways are

coming right to this location. and they are taking photos taking videos trying to get into the action. and all these are blocked off all the way north. and east from where i'm standing, all the streets are blocked off. >> pane when you mention people emerging from underground subway stations, do people have a sense of what the situation is? or is there confusion out in the streets. >> reporter: total confusion. when people came out of the subway. people were talking to each other. what is going on. they are not letting people through. and then you see mobs of people holding up their phones trying to take videos and photos and people trying to get everyone to the sidewalks and away from the area so that the firefighters

can get down into closer to where the building is. right now i can't see the building, and in fact i only see about six buildings from where they are now. the rest is all a blur. >> and we're looking at footage as well of a lot of new york police officers securing the scene, walking around. and we see individuals walking around in suits. we can't make out if they're civilians or officials. we see the fire truck and ambulances. how many officials do you see on the scene at this point? and then again, we're able to report the mayor of new york city mayor de blasio is in route. do you see any indications of preparations for his arrival? >> yeah so right now i see about a dozen officers just lined up on 7th street. a few minutes ago i saw a mother carrying her baby in her arms out of the apartment building.

they're not letting anyone down onto the streets. i live on 7th street. they're blocking off the street completely until further notice. >> anna stay with me. i want to go to another call from scott westerfield, who is a self reported i-witness. can you hear me, scott? >> yes, i can. how are you? >> good. can you tell me how you were able to view this and what you saw? >> i live on the seventh floor, one block south of the explosion and across 2nd avenue. i heard the explosion. it sounded to me like a truck accident like something really big hitting something else. i looked down and saw that everybody was staring up northward on 2nd avenue. and i turned and saw, you know, the first smoke coming out of what i believe is a belgian french fry place.

the front of the building on the ground floor was blown out to the street. and there were people there were civilian who is were pulling somebody out of that wreckage. so i think some person was walking past and hit by something out of the building or something in the building that was actually blown almost out into 2nd avenue. >> scott, did you see the building when it came down? >> you mean, did i watch it actually -- um -- oh no i didn't see it come down. i just realized it was down. my windows are closed now because it's pretty much impossible to breathe out there because we're up here on the seventh floor. >> do you have any sense from what you did witness before it went down for those just

joining us, we're reporting live on the collapse of a 7th building in manhattan. the ongoing fire that officials say was caused by a gas leak. and we're speaking to an i-witness here. before that occurred did you get any indication that you the verify with your own eyes of whether there are people in the building, in the windows, how active and how many inhabitants may have been home at the time? >> caller: i saw no sign of people. but the time from when the explosion happened to when the entire building was engulfed in flames was probably five minutes. i think it would have been i mean, hopefully there was a fire escape on the back of the building is all i can say. >> reporter: and last question. did you see anyone and if you already said this excuse me but did you see anyone actively trying to leave the building. >> no there was people possibly

blown out on the street from there. >> scott westerfield, a self reported i-witness eded eyewitness. thank you for joining us and stay safe. we are reporting on the east village. a very crowded area. new york officials say the mayor, bill delaware blasio is in route. we'll have more on the developing story after the break. that turbo engine packs a punch, right? oh yeah. pinch me. okay... and on passat models you can get a $1,000 volkswagen credit bonus. one more time. pinch me. it's not a dream. it's the volkswagen stop dreaming, start driving event. stop dreaming, do it again. and test-drive one today. hurry in and you can get 0% apr plus a $1000 volkswagen credit bonus on 2015 passat and jetta models. ugh... ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews.

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- by 2018, there will be more than 2 million jobs available in engineering, science, technology, arts, and math. so let's give our kids the skills for success. it all starts with education. the more you know. it has been a busy news day. we want to keep you up to speed on revelations. announcing the evidence showing the copilot andreas lubitz seen here in a photo crashed the plane with 150 people on board on purpose. now here's a photo of the plane's cockpit just days before prosecutors say he locked his fellow pilot out and flew the plane to its fatal crash in the alps. prosecutors in dusseldorf

confirming lubitz's apartment in that city and his family home in germany have both been searched. that was today. now the wider search continuing as well amid the plane's wreckage. widely scattered over very rough terrain, as you can see there. victims' families gathering near the crash site. so many questions about what would make this copilot carry out a horrible and senseless act of mass murder. joining me is a partner mark mulle as well as former u.s. airways captain and ceo of safety operating systems, john, on the investigation, let me start with you. you have been joining us with your expertise throughout the day. what do you make of these latest revelations? >> well, it's a very, very sad day. it's very hard for me to understand how a professional pilot could do such a thing. that's a concept that is almost

unimaginable to me. and yet the evidence appears to be pretty clear. the french prosecutor is confident of it. now the investigation portion of this is going to wind down relatively quickly. they're going to go through and make sure that all the maintenance records, training records, that all of the things around the flight was as they were supposed to be. and then primarily the investigators are going to hand it off to the criminal investigation, and let them proceed to try to understand the motives for this heinous acts. >> yeah and just to decode that, you're talking about essentially government and corporate dealings and investigations into this which is a line of first response an important one. but we wanted to have you on because you have experience with a different lineover dealing with this. that's direct representation of victims' family members. how do you view this today?

what would justice look like? >> as i view it today, and this is a terrible crime and a terrible disaster for the families, and the airline at the end of the day will be held responsible for not bringing the passengers safely to their des neigh. that's where it starts. and then representing the families, the first thing that you have to do is accept the fact that they are in a terrible state of grief. and you have to allow them to grief and recognize the magnitude of their tragedy. and then ultimately the tragedy they faced in dealing with the death on account of wrongful death caused by germanwings. >> and when you say wrongful death, of course in a general reaction, this is a disaster yesterday when we thought it was by many accounts some kind of malfunction, and it is an equal disaster in terms of the loss of life today when it's a mass murder.

is there a different kind of claim or accountability for the company now that they believe their employee essentially murdered these customers, these people? >> ultimately the liability of lufthansa and germanwings will remain the same. they're liability, absolute liability on the carrier. and unless the carrier has some way of exculpating itself from any fault, we did absolutely nothing wrong, they will be liable for 100% of the damages. >> and john what do you view of that piece of this? nothing, nothing will bring these people back and yet there's an understandable desire, as i mentioned, to go beyond what the company and the governments are doing to usually have these people represented to get themselves advocated for, based on what's happened to their family member. >> well as an investigator and

i've walked oen to many sites, the recognition is there's nothing i can do for the victims of a tragedy like this. but what we as investigators can do is get all the information possible and do everything we can to prevent a reoccurrence. that's where you're going to see the investigative side of things go. as it moves forward from the criminal system and into the legal system the investigators will step back further and further and let that process take its natural course. but the concern for aircraft accident investigators is to prevent a are occurrence. >> absolutely. and that's of course important to everyone as well. i want to thank captain john cobs and mark muller for joining us. shall we dine? [ chuckle ] you wouldn't expect an insurance company to show you their rates and their competitors' rates but that's precisely what we do.

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three people have been sent to area hospitals in a building collapse in manhattan's east village. a seven-story building believed ed to have collapsed. cratered to the ground. and we have a reporter on the scene. msnbc's adam reiss. what can you tell us now? i understand you have a witness with you. >> reporter: firefighters are still trying to battle the blaze. again, there are three ladders up. there's heavy smoke continuing to billow up into the skies. with me now i have artur, he is an eyewitness. now other witnesses told police they smelled a strong odor of gas prior to the explosion. artur didn't smell the gas, but he felt the explosion, tell the viewers what you heard and what you saw when you go to the the scene what you saw. >> yeah sure. actually i was inside the

restaurant and i heard this was found. and i thought actually maybe a car crashed into the building. so i just came out and i saw this street the place was there. and actually i ran to that spot to see what's going on there. and i saw the whole store front came out of the street and they moved all of the whole block around. and i saw a couple of people laying on the street and like three of the people were injured haefly. blood all over their body and they're just on the sidewalk. and i was trying to take a tickture and videos. and within like four or five minutes, i saw their -- coming out of the store.

the whole building, actually. >> reporter: so ari, just to recap. firefighters are still fighting the blaze. heavy smoke continues to move up in the sky. i'm looking at it now. it seems to have settled down la little bit. the mayor is on the scene sen is believed to brief reporters within the hour. >> and we have been trying to triage our own account how crowded this building may have been with 12 injured, 3 sent to hospitals. do you have a better sense or does artur, the eyewitness that you're if advertisically with just how many people may have been in the building that collapsed? >> it's hard to tell at this point. i can tell you one building is completely demolished. the building adjacent to it had lost the innards of the building. essentially all that's left for most of the second building is the facade. and as they pour heavy water onto the building we've seen some bricks fall off.

so that is in the second building in a precarious state at this time? so but be again, it's hard to tell in terms of injuries looking at it from this point. >> and you believe the mayor is on the scene? >> that's what we were told that we are being asked to move over to 6th street where he will brief reporters once he's briefed. >> adam reiss reporting from downtown math downtownman hat downtown manhattan. we have one building collapsed. two buildings still on fire. we have live shot of fdny new york. firefighters on the scene. the mayor on the scene in that building collapse in lower manhattan. believed to be from a gas leak. we will stay on the story here on msnbc for you. that is it for our show for now today. the ed show is up next. r now today. the ed show is up next.

good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show". live from new york let's get to work. tonight new details about the copilot behind the germanwings crash. zblf this was mass murder and the weapon was an aircraft. >> plus the new grassroots effort to defeat fast track. >> critics say it's going to be a corporate rights and decrease sovereign rights. >> and later the miseducation of ted cruz. >> nothing like the warm embrace of the mainstream media. >> good to have you with us tonight. folks, thanks for watching. here in new york city we are following breaking news. take a look at this dramatic live scene in manhattan's east village after a building collapse. the fire department of new york is trying to contain a fire that has already critically injured three people, a dozen people are being treated for injuries. we're going to keep an eye on this throughout the show bring you the latest developments and we'll have a live report from the scene here at the ed show