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air at this hour that saudi arabia is now evacuating diplomats from yemen, almost 100 of them. in just a minute we will try to ungtangle the high stakes highly complicated situation on the ground in yemen and in the middle east. there is also another stunning twist thin morning. in the investigation of that germanwings plane crash in the french alps. did the co-pilot hide an illness from his employers, as prosecutors are alleging. our live reports from france and germany. they are ahead this morning. we'll also look at what needs to be done to keep this kind of crash from ever happening again. the worst nightmare for any plane travellers. presidential politics here at home, senator marco rubio this morning is set to officially enter the race for president. his team may not have confirmed that report to us, more importantly they didn't deny it.

we'll take a closer look at how marco rubio and others have a shot at shaking up things. what about joe biden with hillary clinton getting ready to kick off her own campaign. is the vice president taking any steps to take a stab at the run. bob menendez waiting for the indictment. what are prosecutors trying to prove before they make their case in public? but we begin this morning with that rapidly escalating chaos and confusion in the middle east. as we just mentioned "the new york times" reporting at this hour that saudi arabia is evacuating diplomats from yemen by sea. both arab and western diplomats. we'll have more on that situation as it developed. president obama spoke with the king of saudi arabia last night. this after the u.s. air force and navy rescued two saudi pilots in the gulf of aiden. pilots ejected due to what they

say were mechanical problems. the jet was part of the combat operations against iran backed shiite rebels in yemen. this after that country's president was forced by the rebels to flee by boat on wednesday. so in that conflict in yemen, the united states is supporting the sunni governments of both yemen and saudi arabia. it is supporting them against forceatize backed by iran. here is where it starts to get confusingment at the same time the u.s. is doing this. at the same time in iraq the u.s. son the same side as iran. the same side as those iran backed shiite fighters. both the u.s. and iran warning to kick isis out of the key city of tikrit. all of this playing out with the u.s. holding talks with iran. secretary of state john kerry describing those negotiations as tough. all sorts of violent conflicts and puzzling alliances not just

between nation and sects. the united states is against iran in one fight and with them in another, or whose side are we on here? here is an illustration that appeared in the alt magazine trying to show how complicated and confusing and just plain messy the middle east is right now. we have good news for you. nbc news foreign correspondent miguel almanguer is here at the big board to bring us clarity and light. that picture you see. that's what my mind does. all those lines and confusion entanglements. can you untangle it? >> it's probably the most accurate description out of the middle east so our viewers can get a sense. you're absolutely right. it is a complex situation. we want today show off by showing our viewers why this is important. this is yemen right here. yemen sits on one of the most important parts of the world, ararian peninsula. so much of the world's oil flows from the persian gulf down

through the southern tip of yemen, all the way up to the red sea. that is why it matters what's going on right now in yemen. you're talking about the coalition of countries, let's show you where those countries are. we're going to talk about this region right now you have countries as far away asthmain morocco. some are providing diplomatic support, some are providing troops to secure that waterway off the coast of yemen where those tankers pass through. but as we move on to the next part we have to understand why this matters for the united states. the u.s. for a very long time had a major counterterrorism operation in yemen. it still insists it will act. it had to withdraw its special forces from the country as the situation continued to worsen. as we were talking about the houthi rebels they have been in

the past allegedly supported by iran. receiving money, financial support, training. seeing yemen fall to the houthi rebels would seem that iran has put another arab country under its influence. the allies would be concerned if yemen became -- al qaeda and the ararian peninsula and isis to set ufup shot there and try to exploit that for their own gain. they have been doing it for decades, at least al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. they would continue to do it if there was a failed state. the roles there are reversed in iraq. there the united states is fighting against isis. on the ground, though you have iranian backed shia militias as well as the iraqi government fighting under u.s. air support. it is the irony of all ironies.

the united states and its allies are fighting against iranians. but in iraq they are working with iranians. >> thanks for that. and this week is only the latest example of the head spinning situation the obama white house faces. "the new york times" writes the administration finds itself trying to sustain an evergrowing patchwork of strained alliances and multiple battlefields. momentarymorally clarity for demands for democracy across the region has been replaced by difficult choices. for more on all of this we turn to msnbc military analyst, and a retired british senior officer and foreign affairs correspondent. and so i'm not sure where to

begin. let me start with this and he raised this possibility in the presentation. colonel, when you look at yemen right now, you look at the iranian backed rebels. if they succeed, if they take control of the country, if essentially iran gets a toehold in yemen, what does that mean? >> first of all they don't have to take control of the whole country. it was suggested earlier perhaps things are headed in that direction. they are already in control of quite a few chunks of the country. and the geo politics of the place being what they are, that's -- they're in charge of a lot of it. what the saudis are worried about is their border is so porous, and iran is trying so desperately to control the region, and they're being very very successful about it so far. that that border won't mean anything whatsoever. and they're terribly concerned. everybody in the region is concerned about it. which is one reason why they're all meeting right now in order

to determine whether they can put a coalition together. >> what is the -- you look at this, at the situation in yemen and all the different factions and the country's difficulty. what can the united states be doing? what should the united states be doing? what should the west be doing in response to this? >> i think, let's go back to the initial framework that you presented at the top of the show. we need to look at this in terms of what the threat is. the threat is very different. in iraq, the threat is all about isis. it's about this institution that wants to set up an islamic caliphate across north africa and middle east and asia. basically espoused the idealogy of the extreme of sunni islam. ironically, saudi arabia is responsible for exporting what happened for decades. there is a common threat in iraq which the u.s. is if had glimgengaged in. and the popialist is engaged in.

there is no official working on the ground in iraq. there is no official working together on that. it's just the organization are benefitting from u.s. air strikes on tikrit and mosul. >> the condition here for the united states doing this was they had to stand down right? they had to back off? >> they have decided to back away. the hezbollah have decided to back away from trying to get isis out of tikrit. that is left to the u.s. coalition. >> there is battle -- in one sense there's a literal battle but on the other hand there is a battle for credit. is this the united states trying to get credit in the minds of the middle east to getting credit as opposed to it was iran? >> what we need to be cognizant of is the organization has -- have in some sense been

responsible for stopping the spread of isis through iraq in terms of the way they have risen up. when the government of iraq forces capitulated last summer it was the popialist forces that stood in and helped prevent the continual spread of isis. if we don't agree with it fine we have to recognize that. when we come to yemen, the houthis, the shia backed the government aligned forces that pledge allegiance and then you have aqap it is known and it is well-known that saudi arabia has had a dog in the fight with the salafi forces. and iraq has had a dog in the fight with the houthis. the yemen situation is about the national dialogue conference and how that has capitulated. it was supported by the un the u.s. and the gcc. i think that really is the conundrum here. that is why we see u.s. and 11 coalition countries, 150,000

troops from saudi mobilize over 200 fighters come together within 48 hours. i think that's why you're seeing that. is because it was capitulated by something that was supported by the un u.s. and saudi arabia and the gcc. that is what they're trying to prevent from worsening. >> let me ask you about this. in terms of the big picture strategy. you took us through this obviously, getting isis out of tikrit is a shared priority for the united states and for iran. then in yemen, there's horrible implications potentially for the united states with yemen. not a shared interest with iran right there. president obama's former ambassador to iraq, who was asked about the u.s. tragedy in the middle east. his quote was we're in a free fall here. that's what james jeffrey said this week. how do you -- is there a big picture simple way of describing what the united states strategy is when you look at the tangled alliances? >> there is the u.s. has its own set of red lines, things that matter to it. that will be the decisive factor

in how and when it gets involved. look, isis has been fighting in syria now for some time. the country has been a state of free fall syria has been in -- for four years a state of civil war. similar to iraq. the u.s. has not been as eager to allow sunni arab countries like saudi arabia to get militarily involved there. if saudi arabia was concerned as much as it was about the houthi rebels in yemen as they were in syria or iraq there is no reason why saudi arabia and egypt could not have intervened and encouraged the u.s. to intervene to prevent that bloodshed. now you are on the border of saudi arabia in a hostile way. the shia government in baghdad is not actually hostile to saudi arabia. although they are close to iran, they are walking a fine line because of the geo politics. the government, the prime minister in iraq is striking a balance between have the support of the iranian military. in yemen it's a different situation. the rebels are very hostile to

saudi arabia and the saudi dynasty. they pose from the saudi perspective a threat. as a result the u.s. is willing to support that military campaign aggressively. but it's not purely a sectarian issue where we till stop the iranians here and accept them there. they have their own red lines and it's probably playing every country based on that metric alone. >> i would argue that if you would take an separation official and pushed hem up against the wall and threaten with bodily harm unless he told you what our overarching military strategy is he would honestly tell you we don't have one. we have objectives. we would like to see all -- >> i don't -- >> but if you ask -- okay how are we going to get there, he won't have an answer. >> is it possible you think to put a big picture strategy -- >> that might be -- >> i think there is. i would agree. >> with all of these alliances

actually crumbling and shifting and the things we've relied on our past are pillars if you will of interest in the region no longer as cohesive as they once were, it's hard for us as the united states to develop a consistent strategy across the board. we will get involved in syria, not iraq. >> if i could jump in the strategy has to be consistent with what the priority of the threat is. the priority of the threat that is destabilizing that region and globally is isis. i don't think it's iran. iran is an issue. isis is the thing we need to counter at the moment. i would have loved to have been 150,000 saudi troops mobilized to tackle the threat that has been spreading from syria. you're absolutely right, it's syria that needs to be addressed. we need to understand what the political road map is for syria before we move forward. that is at the center of instability within this region. >> okay.

we thank you you all. still ahead, why at least one prominent republican who is trying to stop chris christie from running for president thinks it's time to give up that fight. next, the shocking new twist in the germanwings plane crash investigation. amid developing reports the airline is getting ready to make preliminary payments to the families of victims. those details, live report from the crash site after this break. stay with us with toothpaste or plain water. and even though their dentures look clean, in reality they're not. if a denture were to be put under a microscope we can see all the bacteria that still exists on the denture and that bacteria multiplies very rapidly. that's why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher brighter denture every day.

. investigators in europe are still searching this weekend for clues about the physical and mental health of the co-pilot of that germanwings flight that crashed in the french alps on tuesday. prosecutors say it appears the co-pilot crashed that plane deliberately. a spokesperson confirming to nbc

news this morning, lufthansa is now offering up to $54,000 to the family of each victim. this in a preliminary payment meant to cover their immediate expenses. we are live in france. what is the latest from where you are? >> reporter: we just spoke to the chief press officer of the national police. he gave us some more details about the recovery operation that continues here. he said yesterday the recovery operation was slowed down by very strong winds. today it is still windy but better. the operation resumed this morning. there are about 30 investigators who have been winched down the cable from a helicopter. it's an 80 meter drop on that crash site. 15 of them are in charge of collecting dna samples from the okd parts. let me remind you. that the police told us yesterday that not one single body was found intact because of the impact of that crash. the other 15 are looking for evidence.

they're trying to find debris that may be useful for the investigators and, of course the priority for those 15 are to find the second black box. which is the flight data recorder which contains technical statistical information of that flight from takeoff to the point of impact. we were told that yesterday 600 dna samples were collected on the site. they have been flown to paris so they can be matched up -- they're trying to match it with the dna samples that the family left when they came here. and they're still coming to visit the memorial site that was set up about two miles from the crash site. the most emotional information we got today from this police officer is that we are told that 20 local mountain police officers and, of course helicopter pilots are helping out, of course. the investigators, are receiving psychological counseling. this has taken its toll on them. they are used to saving and rescuing hikers lost in the woods or skiers implicated in

avalanche avalanches. they have never seen anything like it. of course they have to witness a dramatic seen of the mass murder in that ravine. especially those who are camping there every night. setting campfires to protect the site from animals. >> appreciate that report. still ahead how will harry reid be remembered. what president obama has already told the democratic leader of the senate. a quiweek for jeb bush on the campaign trail. the other candidates in the republican field are trying to steal his thunder. stay with us on that and a whole lot more as we continue on a busy saturday morning. their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza. for a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar but it didn't get me to my goal. so i asked my doctor about victoza. he said victoza works differently than pills and comes in a pen. victoza is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. it's taken once a day, any time.

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the first 23 hours after the announcement. is that going to be enough to make ted cruz a formidable challenger to jeb bush the presumed front runner and establishment favorite? insiders say it's unlikely ted cruz could pull off a victory. there is clearly an opening for someone to knock off bush on the republican side. after all, jeb bush is only running at 16%. 16%. in the latest national poll of republican voters. hardly an overwhelming front runner. how about scott walker? on wednesday the conservative magazine national review cast doubts on the wisconsin governor's chances on the national change. writing that quote, opinion in elite circles is that the walker organization is at best not yet firing on all cylinders, even though the polls do not reflect the problems. john kasich who seemed to be

having a moment. he's not being met with much enthusiasm either. chris christie is he in a position to make a come back. a presidential nounce for rubio could come as early as april 13th. a few weeks frunow. mike pence, empolicied in controversy this week over his state's religious freedom law that some will cause denial of services to gay and lesbians. it may play differently with the hard edged republican base. jeb bush spent his week raising more money at private fund raisers in pennsylvania and texas with expectations now growing he will shatter all existing fund raising records. possibly bringing in as much as $100 million. for all of that money, the polls are still clear. there is a lot of resistance to bush among republicans. is there a candidate out there

who can capitalize on it? let's get today's panel. toure toure, perry bacon jr., and joining us is report costa national political reporter. this question of who the sort of anybody but bush candidate could be, if a consensus candidate is able to emerge there and take advantage of all that resistance to jeb bush who is it going to be? for the last few months it looked like scott walker. we're showing you some of the clips he's been getting the press coverage. even among conservative publications not that favorable. is walker hitting the rocks here? >> checking in with some of the top republican donors this week i got at private messages is they're going to look at rubio. they wonder if christie has missed his time on the national

stage. he's had such a rough period. they're looking to see who is the bush alternative. they say it could be marco rube wrote. >> what due they see? able to win a state like florida. they think he could be a fresh face. cruz is trying to make the generational element. he looks at iowa huckabee santorum. they're retreads in some sense. he thinks he can be their favorite. >> when you look at the rest of the field here is there anybody else you see -- right now walker is sort of getting the tryout. rubio may be waiting in the wingsment christie has his baggage. is there anybody else you look at and say this person has to ability to rise up and challenge bush? ohio gorve john kasich. he's been making trips to early primary states. he's naught taking an acive role

in the campaign right now. they believe he will wait to the sum and perhaps make an argument he could be someone like bush and walker who could appeal to the party. >> the late summer announces seem dangerous to me. fred thompson one of them may be a workout. it's interesting that robert says that. kasich has been the one i've been usaing on paper for a year makes a lot of sense to me. perry, you did some reporting this week kasich getting a cold reception for some of the people he might need. >> there was a big dinner here of wednesday of conservative activists. the reception was not great for kasich. one thing is he's been a strong defender of medicaid. he expanded medicaid in ohio. he's been -- part of obamacare. he's been talking about how basically wrapping it all in with his faith and saying i'm a christian, this is something i do for the poor. and conservatives are not excited about expanding obamacare in the first place, they're really not excited about being kasich's implication they're not christian enough for not doing it.

he's got a lot of resistance there. one of the actists said kasich in the meeting i want to repeal obamacare but want to keep medicare expansion. people in the room were laughing at him. that's impossible to do and doesn't make sense. they wondered if he's ready for this. >> how do you read this right now? based on what robert is saying there is sort of peaking order of antijeb candidates. and walker is in that top slot. we'll see if he can hang on. it does seem to me rubio -- a year ago you were talking to a lot of conservatives they rur saying we're done with rubio. they might be coming back to him. >> you have a lot of voters -- you're seeing in the national polls who are voting with their heart. they don't have a lot of information. they haven't examined the records. they like what they hear from scott walker. and maybe even ted cruz. over the course of time they are going to start to examine

more closely. something about marco excites people because he is conservative and so they can sort of scratch that itch. he expands the playing field for republicans. that's important in a general election. the interesting thing i hear from a lot of people is that marco is kind of everybody's second choice. and that's a strong position to be in. you know i think jeb certainly has sort of done the work he needs to do within the finance community. i think chris christie will have a second act. he's a talented politician without a doubt. i just wouldn't count him out. i do think we'll see -- i hope we're going to see republicans nominate somebody that's not a grumpy old man. that won't be a winning combination for us. we need -- >> is he a grumpy old man? >> not necessarily. they don't have to be old to be a grumpy old man. you've got -- >> i can be a grumpy old man. you know that. toure, let me put this one up. we're talking about scott

walker. it's been a rough -- about six weeks ago people looked up and said holy cow this guy is challenging jeb bush. he's had self-inflicted wounds since then. perry tweeted this that scott walker who used to take questions for umthe press is sending staff written readouts of his events. scott walker is a curious one to me. i started saying -- i've been looking at this opening that exists here for a non-bush candidate. scott walker will check all the boxes. he went to war with unions and we won. he can also say i've run in wisconsin, in this blue state and i've run three times. >> i know folks from wisconsin, deep ipwisconsin politics they're like please once we start to open up this guy's closet he will fall apart. you talk about grumpy old men. republicans love macho. is scott walker really macho,ther type of man we see republicans fall in love so? >> i don't think jeb is that guy

either. i'm not sure on this side ticks the box. when i see the guys who lack charisma charisma. i think he lacks a lot of charisma charisma. i'm not sure he'll be able to make it over the long haul. >> let me ask robert costa about another name. mike pence signing this religious freedom law there. all sorts of controversy around that. mike pence's name sometimes comes up in the 2016 conversation. i guess one way of reading what he's done in indiana is it's a pretty strong play to the christian conservative base of the republican party. is there a possibility of pence trying to go national this year? >> mike pence certainly has presidential ambition. look back to 2011, he almost got in the 2012 race that summer a year before the campaign. he wants to be president of the united states. but i sat down with him a few weeks ago. you get the sense he wants to run for reelection in indiana in 2018. he wants to be on the radar. he's doing things what he's

doing with the state ledge stachier. >> we will moreon what's happening in indiana. thanks to robert costa with "the washington post." appreciate the time. and still ahead, charges that were reported to be imminent against new jersey senator robert menendez they still haven't been filed. what is that delay all about? we'll tell you about that coming up. first, we show a vote in the millions and donations that usually come with it why jeb bush does not appear to be on the shelden addleson short list. that's next

in those around them as early as age two. that's the same age they begin adopting the attitude and vocabulary of their parents. so use that opportunity to let your children know that it's okay to not only talk about our differences, but to celebrate them. that's a lesson they're never too young to learn.

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headline, gop hawks upset with bush after baker speech on israel. this is a really interesting story that's been playing out the last few days. there is this group, which bills itself as sort of a progressive eproisrael group. james baker former bush president secretary of state. confidante of the bush family. he spoke and he's been critical of israel through the years. the reaction on the right, the reaction from the republican party has been vicious and hostile. it includes sheldon addleson, the maka donor -- you don't want him against you. he's expressing concerns to jeb bush about this. basically saying you want to run for president, you have ties to james baker, this gives me doubts. the direction the republican party has taken on israel. this is george h.w. bush's secretary of state. he said these things as the secretary of state and republican administration. now he says 20 years later

suddenly he's a pariah in the party. >> you saw jeb bush had to criticize john baker is one of his dad's closest friends. he helped his dad get in the white house. >> he helped w. >> the fact that jeb bush went out of his way to say james baker should not have spoken in the first place, and made the wrong comments it shows you how, you know support for netanyahu and support for israel is required in the republican primary. you cannot criticize netanyahu and win this primary. that's what you learned this week. >> i want to know what the conversation was like. after jeb went and did that. what did james baker and george h.w. bush say? it's a fascinating -- >> if you remember what happened back in 2012 you know mitt romney pretty much had things sewn up and newt gingrich won in south carolina. what kept him afloat through south carolina and florida was sheldon addle son.

it cost mitt romney of $10 million to win in florida and nevada. >> you can't just -- >> this is not an insignificant problem that jeb's got. >> getting back to the apack point. i don't want it to become too much of an issue. if we're not working toward a two state solution then we're not working towards peace in that area. if we get into this area that they're proposing something and we're proposing something else -- >> it feels like we're at a turning point. washington post, the 13 words that you can't write about hillary clinton. a group called clinton super volunteer. they're promising to track the media's u.s. of sexist code words when referring to hillary clinton. what are the sexist code words? disingenuous, insincere,

ambitious, entitled. secretative. will do anything to win. represents the past and out of touch. i got to -- >> every word that describes hillary clinton. >> whoa. >> let me just say, i have used a lot of these words probably to describe hillary clinton. i've used these words to describe every politician i've ever written about. disingenuous. >> former first lady. woman. >> reasonable for you to use. there is this sort of sexist coded language. we had somebody on the cycle, i think when you were on where somebody referred to hillary as shrill. and we all understood that has one of these code words that people use against women that they'd never use against men. that list to my ear does not include those sort of words. we have to be careful how we talk about female politicians and not using though code words. hey remember, she's a woman. >> that's fair. wouldn't it be hard for a man to be shrill? that is something that describes a woman.

to say it's sexist -- all of those words on that list could be used to describe anybody in the field. and to suggest that you can't say that is saying -- you can't say she's a woman or a former first lady. it's a number of words that frankly, just do describe her. >> we'll see what happens as the campaign unfolds. those words will be invoked, i'm sure by a lot of people. we are running out of time. let's get one more headline in here. i love this one. the hollywood reporter making its weekly appearance. craig t. nelson to star in coach follow up series. they're bringing it up 20 years later. he played the football case. there is jerry van dyke. i'm excited i hope they bring back more sit comes. what is coming up that is causing the delay of the

prosecution of senator menendez? stay with us.

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and introducing our new advanced filter, now better than ever. late last night. amanda knox finally spoke about the apparent end to her eight year legal battle. >> i'm incredibly grateful for what has happened for the justice i have received. for the support that i have had from everyone. from my family from my friends, to strangers, to people like you. i -- it -- you saved my life. and i'm so grateful. and i am so grateful to have my life back. >> yesterday, italy's highest court overturned knox's murder conviction. she and her then boyfriend were originally convicted of killing knox's roommate in 2007. an appeals court acquitted them

in 2011. that acquittal was overturned last year. the third suspect in the case remains convicted and in prison. and knox and her boyfriend have always maintained that third suspect acted alone. still ahead, replacing harry reid in the senate. how chuck schumer positioned himself for the job. he's probably now going to get it. the looming indictment of senator bob menendez why hasn't it happened yet? stay with us. they say after seeing a magician make his assistant disappear mr.clean came up with a product that makes dirt virtually disappear.

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i have always conducted myself appropriately and in accordance with the law. i am not going anywhere. >> that was new jersey senator menendez weeks ago amid reports he would soon be indicted on federal corruption charges. attorney general holder was said to sign off -- a donor and personal and friend in exchange

for gifts and vacations. three weeks later, charges still have yet to come. report in the "new york times" this week says it's because federal investigators are trying to flip that donor. the meeting with his lawyers to turn him into a potential star witness against menendez. menendez is also having his own talks with senior justice department officials. his lawyers urging them not to bring charges at all. the the times reporting prosecutors planned to bring charges this week but delayed while they considered what menendez had to say. joining us is our correspondent. two completely different directions suggested by the reporting this week. one that this menendez friend and donor might be on the verge of flipping into a tar witness or a new push by menendez to get the charges not even brought in the first place. where is this going? >> to the idea his lawyers have been in there not to argue to bring charges is not that unusual in a case like this.

usually the justice department give lawyers a chance to see why they shouldn't be charged. i think the donor thing is more interesting, if that's actually happening. my sense from the story is melgon was not likely to flip. first of all, the prosecution of ted stevens, everyone says look at that that case -- >> this was the former alaska senator -- >> failed spectacularly. the flip side of that is bob mmc mmc mmc mcdonnell. that is the problem for menendez. a lot of people are saying is what bob menendez was that just the ordinary business of being a u.s. senator. >> you talk about the potential if they're trying to flip this guy, trying to flip melgon it occurs to me menendez in his public statements about this has gone out of his way to say this is my great friend. our families vacations together.

it's almost now in this context reads to me like menendez sending a public message to melgon hey, we're in this together. >> i think what he's trying to say this is friendships. this is gifts. i forgot to report those two flights. but that was an oversight i was not trying to hide anything. he reported the flights, 18 months later i think it was and paid them back. i think what he's saying this is a friendship. and i was -- doing the ordinary work of legislating when i argued on his behalf of different medicare rates. this isn't anything i would not have done for any constituent. >> do we have any time table on this? they were expecting this week the charges, now he know. >> we've been watching bridgegate we can go on about that. i think it's probably this month. again, they're trying to be very careful about this. there have been disasters in the past. >> let me ask the pamnel about

this. when the news broke a few weeks ago that potentially indictment coming against bob menendez. he has been very vocal against the administration as it pursues this deal this nuclear deal with iran. i started hearing quotes like this from a lot of people especially on the right. this is lindsay graham on the potential indictments. all i can say is they were leaks he's been an champion on the iran were nuclear issue. it doesn't smell right. suggesting basically, hey, the obama justice department. the obama administration is taking this and paying back this senator for all the grief. there was a full page taken out in the "new york times," a pro israel group saying stand with senator menendez. he stood with us. he's getting a lot of support from unlikely places. >> yeah, i mean lindsay graham criticizing him and obama --

when does that not happen it? i'm going to take that with a grain of salt. can they prove that there's a quid quo pro here? that's the question. when he says we're friends and we fraid back and forth. that is not necessarily graft. if they can -- do they have a way they can prove this is a direct quid quo pro. >> they are focusing on the medkair meetings for the centers for medquericare and medicaid. he was upset about a certain billing procedures. this was affecting thousands of doctors. menendez was arguing against that. the argument against menendez isthis was someone who has helped him for many years. we don't know what it was at this point. >> if it ever gets to a trial or jury and it's basically the government saying well, look the bottom line is you got all these gifts and all these

freebies. these are the official actions that took place. it's menendez saying trust me one had nothing to do with the other y. got to think in this day and age the tide goes against the politician. we'll see if that gets to the point. the indictment has not come down yet. maybe there won't be. thanks to you. another full hour of news and politics. stay with us. today something entirely new is being built into bounty. dawn. new bounty with dawn. what a novel idea! just rinse and wring so you can blast right through tough messes and pick up more. huh aren't we clever.... thanks m'aam. look how much easier new bounty with dawn cleans this gooey mess versus soap and a sponge. thank you! new bounty with dawn. available in the paper towel aisle. obviously! ♪ yoplait.

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another day, another stunning twist in the plane crash investigation. all right. thanks for staying with us this busy saturday morning. there are new and intriguing clues into what may have led the co-pilot of germanwings flight 9525 to intentionally crash that plane. as prosecutors allege.

we will be going life to germany and talking through the evidence with a former pilot in just a minute. ahead, the senate's most powerful democrat stepping out of the ring. his legacy and the big names jockying to replace him. it wasn't the first time it won't be the last time. republicans in the senate fighting amongst themselves. republican presidential candidates potentially there. what they were fighting about, what it tells us about 2016 and the future of the republican party. a play bay play from a reporter who was there. what about joe? does vice president joe biden still want to run? what does he do about it? we begin this hour with the still unanswered questions about that doomed germanwings flight that crashed into the french alps on tuesday, including the health of the co-pilot who prosecutors say intentionally brought down that plane. investigators suching both his apartment in dusseldorf where the flight had been headed and

his home -- parents' home in germany. for more on what investigators have found so far and what they believe it tells them nbc's katy tur in is germany this morning. >> reporter: investigators are trying to piece this another. who was andreas lubitz and what exactly was going on in his head. as workers are trying to recovery all the remains and debris from the french alps investigators are combing through lubitz' life. they've been through his apartment, his family home. they've been to his apartment in dusseldorf. they've taken away evidence. they did find doctor's notes that were torn up in the trash can excusing him from work on the day of the crash. doctor's notes that were not given to lufthansa or germanwings. now the wall street journal is reporting the doctor's notes were from a neurpsychologist treating depression. we have not been ail to confirm

that. the german newspapers spoke to the girlfriend said he was he planning something big. what investigators are doing, is that they're taking all this into account to get a better picture of who he was, why he did it. and whether or not they can stop it in the future. back to you. >> all right. thanks for that. katy tur of nbc in germany. airlines around the world have already started changing their procedures in the wake of tuesday's crash. four airlines say they will now require at least two crew members to be in the cockpit at all times during any flight. this is a regulation that has been in place here in the united states for years. things changes after it was revealed the co-pilot of the germanwings flight locked the captain out of the cockpit. setting into the motion the deadly chain of events. joining me now is a msnbc aviation analyst.

thanks for joining us this morning. let me first start by asking you about the issue of mental health and pilots. it seems to me this is an issue that is sort of out there and maybe hasn't gotten that much attention until right now. how is this something in your experience in the airline industry, how widespread are the kinds of problems, especially this pilot having. >> for the pilot community, a problem like this is extraordinarily rare. in all the pilots i know i do not know of anyone that is battling a severe depression like this. it's not a job environment that is very conducive to somebody that is struggling with a severe depression problem. it's too intense. it's also the fact that pilots work very closely and close proximity with each other. if somebody is not performing well, other crew members will bring that first to their attention, but then to the attention of the company. and they will be given an opportunity to get their life

back in order. typically, this is for life crisis events and not somebody that is struggling with a severe depression issue and is under treatment. they typically are not in the flight decks. >> i think this is something -- just from the airline passengers standpoint, it's a tragedy, and everybody watching this says the next time i get on a flight how can i have assurance that the pilot of my flight doesn't have these same issues? do you look at this and say is there anything else the airlines can be doing or should think about doing in the future. i know you say it's rare. is there another step to be taken? >> one, let's talk about the rarity for just a second. in 2014 about 3.5 billion people flew safely on the world's airlines. on about 40 million flights. and so the aviation system is the safest form of transportation ever designed by mankind. events like this yes they have happened but they are

extraordinarily rare. and so the likelihood of someone getting on an airplane and actually having a pilot that was fighting a depression issue of the magnitude that this first officer was, is almost unheard of. it certainly -- i can think of two or three cases in the last say, 30 or 40 years. so that said aviation safety and security procedures are regularly reviewed and updated. they are always evolving. and i think as an outgrowth of this investigation. of this event, we're going to look and see how we maintain the best balance between protecting the flight deck from someone that has the intent to hijack and do harm and also make sure that the right people can gain access at the right times to the flight deck. that balance, i think, is something that having two people in the flight deck is a step in that direction. but those processes will be reviewed and will be better at the end of it.

>> thanks to you. i appreciate the time and insight this morning. our parnl is back with us. republican consultant toure, and perry bacon jr. this was the biggest story anywhere this week, was this crash. and let's talk about it for a minute. we've had a few days to digest it. we heard the retired airline pilot reassuring us how rare this is. i'm a person with a great fear of flying. i just -- i'm curious your reactions to this in terms of how this makes you feel? does this change at all the way any of you feel about air travel? >> no, not at all. it's an extraordinarily rare event. we keep telling people 40 million flights landed safely last week. 3.5 billion people got to where they wanted to go safely. you are safer flying in the air than you are driving to the

airport. the media, correctly perhaps spends a lot of time talking about these stories. there is not a plane malfunction. there is not a lot we can do in terms of rules to deal with this. this is massive needle in the hay stack. >> wasn't it chilling in a way that there wasn't an obvious mechanical explanation for this. it's something embedded within a person's mind. a mechanical thing you can always learn a lesson and say this is the part we need to fix. >> we will have any number of pilots beyond one in a generation who is going to go through all that training and all that time to gain the level of trust, to get in the cockpit, to say as soon as that other guy leaves i'm crashing this thing and taking it. it's not going to happen. you didn't fly for like 17 years, it's okay come back. >> i've done it a few times. >> it makes sense in your head. i have to say i'm not a fearful traveller. i fly a couple times a week.

when i got on the plane earlier this week and the pilot cut in front of me to get in the cockpit i had a moment where i thought i don't know anything about this guy and i'm putting my life in his hands. m you have to push that down. i do think we put a lot of trust in people and we don't know anything about them. it was a horrifying tragic thing. it is a freak, freak thing. you know the likelihood of it ever happening again is infinitesimal infinitesimal. the part i have a problem with is giving up control. you're giving up your life to the pilot. you're trusting the pilot. you're at 30,000 feet if anything goes wrong. there's fender benders on the ground. you don't have those in midair. >> toure is right a drunken driver you have nole control over. he could hit you and you could die. i did find this chilling. i will think if i see the pilot, maybe think about the pilots. you are putting your life in the

hands of people you don't know. the guest before talked about how we assume most pilots don't have depression issues. at the same time i don't think this is something we openly talk about. you have to quit your job afterwards. >> i got -- >> in the community of folks who have depression, the vast majority of them are not suicidal and the vast majority of them are not homicidal. even where we have a massive global depression issue we have to be more cognizant of, i'm not afraid of those people. we need to help them and not run from them. >> how much the culture of air travel has changed. so much has to do with 9/11. one of the -- i don't fly that much. when i was a kid, about 12 years old, 1992 or so my parents took me to england. we're on a flight overseas. i was panicked. i'm asking the flight attendant every 20 minutes where are we. i had this theory if we crashed in the water and it would be safer. she would go to the pilot and

say we're over new foundland after the fifth time the captain thinks you're interested in flying and would like you to come up in the cockpit. this is a 1992 flight. my dad was like can i come up too, no, just the kid. they brought me into the cockpit. opened the door strapped me into the seats. i was there for the landing of the plane. that -- that is walled off like a fortress. >> you are still a nervous flier. i would think information would make you a more relaxed flier. i didn't even know that about your dad. how could you do that to your dad, to be nervous about flying? >> the fear of flying is a completely irrational thing. it's based on anecdotes. you get an anecdote like this week and that's the sort -- >> aren't you afraid of driving around the city? >> irrational. >> you have to start drinking before you get on the flight. >> that's what they tell me.

i don't know. still ahead is joe biden playing a long game? why a run for office may still be in the cards for the vice president. next president obama surprises harry reid with a call in radio appearance. stay with us. . >> hello is this harry reid? >> it is. >> harry this is barrack. ♪ turn around ♪ ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female

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just harness the confidence it took you to win me and call td ameritrade's rollover consultants. they'll help with the hassle by guiding you through the whole process step by step. and they'll even call your old provider. it's easy. even she could do it. whatever, janet. for all the confidence you need td ameritrade. you got this. i think i owe something to it state of nevada. i am looking forward to running for the senate. >> that was then congressman harry reid all the way back in 1986. what a year. when he was running for the u.s. senate. he is the most powerful democrat on capitol hill. not for long. announcing yesterday he will retire at the end of his term next year.

ending one of the runs in history as the senate's democratic leader. in that role he was critical in passing healthcare reform against staunch republican opposition a few years ago. he came to infuriate republicans in the senate. republicans around the country really with his hard nosed tactics. including a controversial change to the senate's rules two years ago that's made it harder for republicans to kill some of president obama's nominations with the filibuster. president obama surprised senator reid by calling in to a radio station where reid was taking live calls. take a listen. >> hello. is this harry reid? >> it is. is. >> harry this is barrack. >> well i'll be. >> are you allowed to say that on live radio? when the story is written and all is told you're going to have somebody who has done more for nevada and for this country

as anybody who has ever been in the senate. >> and to talk more about harry reid's legacy one of the men who knows him best his lock time spokesman and advisor. and a reporter who has covered the hill a reporter. you worked with him so closely. let me start with you. he had this injury. in the last couple of months. everybody has seen him he's wearing shades in public. i guess this was working out in nevada. a really bad injury. he made some reference in his statement yesterday to this giving him time to think. do you look at this and say without this injury harry reid is still going to run for reelection next year? >> i'm not convinced that is the case. i think after thinking about it long and heard, he just wasn't sure whether he wanted to go through it again. he's been majority leader for 12 years. by the time he ends up it will

be 14. he'll be short of mike mansfield's 16 years. that's a pretty good run as leader in this dace and age. it may have been a factor but it wasn't the only factor. >> talk about just reid as a leader in the chamber. we mentioned republicans -- in general that's the way partisan party politics works. reid seemed to attract a particular form of scorn from republicans. what was it about his leadership in the senate that brought that out? >> in the era of president obama, he grew to realize a few years in that republicans -- or at least he decided that republicans wanted to stop the president for the sake of stopping the president. he decided he would respond by using extraordinary tactics in the senate. you had filling the tree, which means blocking amendments. you had him preventing votes that the other side wanted to do. and that culminated with him

changing the rules. he did take extraordinary steps. one thing conservatives will not deny or dispute about that is he was effective. >> you're saying he fought fire with fire. >> right. >> so let's talk about this. the other big news out of yesterday besides the retirement announcement. he announces he's retiring. within six hours we know the succession plan. he endorses chuck schumer to replace him. dick durbin backs out of that. how did this play out so quickly? >> it's not surprising that chuck schumer is the next in line or will likely replace harry reid as democratic leader. i think everyone in the conference over the last two years have come to this recognition. this is reid facilitating it. he doesn't want there to be a battle. he wants to focus on the business of what they're doing. >> chuck schumer, the senator from new york who it seems likely now will become the next

democratic leader. very close to harry reid. the politico is reporting on friday that reid and schumer speak to each other multiple times. the first and last person reid speaks to is schumer. they are so close they talk all the time. can you talk a little bit more about that relationship about where that comes from? in general, with what kind of a majority leader or minority leader whatever it is schumer ends up being? >> first of all, senator reid has a 10:00 rule. he doesn't take phone calls after 10:00 at night. two people are allowed to break that rule the president of the united states and senator schumer. so how do they become so close? they came so close -- working together very closely, coordinated very closely in 2006, and 2008 as they worked methodically to pick up the seats necessarily for senator reid to become majority leader. remember, senator schumer was then the head of the dscc.

and together like i said they worked to pick up what was it the 12 to 14 seats over that four year cycle that allowed them to gain a comfortable majority margin. regarding the style and leadership, what can i say? i mean the fact of the matter is is that the caucus is much more progressive than it's been in recent history. due in part again, to the efforts of senator reid and senator schumer to elect all of those folks. i don't expect that to change. i don't expect that to change. >> that's one of the chuck schumer's goals i guess. he's looked for all these years, now in sight. that's january 2017. they solved this in march of 2015. still ahead the presidential candidates thought to be dead for 2016 and the undead getting new life on cable television. details on both stories. we'll somehow connect those two things. plus it was built as a brawl on the floor of the senate even

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ink from chase. so you can. well we admit it we're suckers for any headline that says there's been a brawl on the floor of the united states senate. normally debates over defense spending are like watching paint dry. not the one that played out in the senate this week. a fight on the floor that put three republican presidential candidates on the spot. that pitted them against each other. and it exposed a deep and widening fracture in their party. >> my amendment increases defense spending but pays for it with spending cuts. it is irresponsible and dangerous to continue to put america further into debt. even for something we need. we need national defense. but we should pay for it. >> that was rand paul on thursday chewing out his signal colleagues for reckless spending

in the name of defense. speaking in favor of an amendment he had proposed to cut tens of billions of dollars from the budget. marco rubio had his own amendment that would raise defense spending without any spending cuts to pay for it. >> the national security of our country is the predominant obligation of our government. it is the one thing that the government can do. >> then there was ted cruz who didn't know whose side he was on. cruz was clearly torn. the senators stood quietly at the well of the senate chamber reading the text of the rubio amendment and checking his smartphone. cruz gave a thumbs up sign siding with rubio. neither of those amendments from cruz or rubio passed. in a way that's not important. the larger question is who ends up winning this fight within the republican party. is it rubio, the hawk who wants to pour more money in defense or paul the budget slasher who

didn't think the pentagon is necessarily so sacred. politico senior correspondent joins us now from washington. let me tell you what i thought i was seeing. tell me if this is a good read or not. a couple years ago, we were tacking about how the republican party might be making this turn. where it had been been on defense spending and after afghanistan and iraq it was turning towards rand paul's direction on this. what we saw is marco rubio, the threat of isis and all the events in the last year has changed that and hawkishness and defense spending is important now. >> i think it is. particularly in early states like south carolina. as well as even new hampshire. you'll see kind of those defense hawks playing a big role in that primary. to that extent i think that's why you see rand paul kind of showcase he could appeal to that hawkish element of the party.

if you look at his amendments steve, it would actually increase defense spending by $190 billion. rand paul will say that he's not an isolationist. what he actually supports is a less aggressive united states presence in the world but having a robust deffs. we mide toneed to find a way to pay it. what would offset that increase throughout various accounts of the federal government. folks like marco rubio says if you do that it will be much harder to increase defense spending. finding spending cuts is very difficult to agree upon. the one thing that congress should agree upon in his view, is hire defense budget. that is a key debate that will play out and will actually test whether or not voters believe that either of them could be commander in chief in 2017. >> did one of them -- neither of the amendments passed. in terms of they're both basically presidential

candidates, did one of them get the better of this? >> i talked to rand paul about this immediately after his vote. he said to me this was a very very important distinction. it show ezthere is one camp that cares about the debt and there's another camp that does not. clearly, he saw this as a beginning as an effort to differentiate himself from cruz and rubio. cruz sided with marco rubio. he was clearly on the offensive after this. but as you saw, rand paul's vote was trounced in the senate. it lost 4-96. so there was hardly any support for it. whereas rubio's did better at had42 votes. there are more republicans wanting to side with rubio's position even if rand believes it is better. >> 96-14 those are the margins his father used to get. let me bring the panel in.

it's interesting to me because i looked at rand paul. i think he's in a bad spot politically as he tries to run for president. a different spot he was in two years ago. what it says to me it's not just that he's looking for budget cuts, he's looking to -- trying to play the game that marco rubio is playing. he's trying to appeal to them and say i want to raise defense spending i want to have offsets. he's playing on their turf. when you're playing on the other guy's turf. i think you're losing. >> i think what you saw this week play out, is you know rand paul appealing to the people that are already with rand paul. you know i don't think he grabbed any new voters with that speech on the floor. marco rubio on the other hand used this opportunity a few kweeks ago with the netanyahu speech he gave on the house floor to put himself out there as a real statesman on international issues. al on this particular issue, republicans want a strong

national defense. they're not going to wait for cuts to education and things that are incredibly unpopular, you know in a general election to make sure that our national defense is secure. i think rand paul was on the wrong side of it in terms of the majority of republican primary voters. >> not yet ready to call marco rubio a national statesman. i'm not there yet. but i just wish that politically it was possible for people on either side to talk about, let's cut the defense budget or keep it study. we have by far the largest defense spending in the world by a multiple right? do we need that to do what we need to do to keep the nation safe? i don't think we need to spend as much as we do to keep our world and nation safe. and would it be politically possible to say we need to spend more money to take care of the poor in america? >> i think the argument you're making had some real resonance a couple years ago. when people said look we -- no there may be validity to it.

i think the politics of this have changed so much especially with the republican party, which i think is hawkest to begin with. we ask about boots on the ground in the middle east. i'm imagining five years ago, 10% of the country might have supported it. now it's two thirds. >> we saw a real shift the last year. midway through the year when isis started decapitating our citizens. there didn't seem to be a plan to stop it. and the american people we might be spending more money than we ever spent before. the american people don't feel safer than they've ever felt before. so it's a critical issue. and republican primary voters are not going to back down on making sure we have a strong national defense. i think marco understands that a little better than rand paul did. >> i think steve has the politics right. the electorate has moved and marco rubio is a better candidate. i do want to give paul credit.

the republicans have been talking about how big the debt is growing. his position if you think about the intellectual argument is we want to raise spending and cut spending here. it's what republicans have been asking obama to do for years. he was advocating a better way to spend less money which was republicans were for. i think he has more consistency. rubio is where the republican electorate is going. this is a sign -- he's rising among elites right now. rubio is able to speak to security issues in a coherent and fluent way. >> i imagine what we saw on the senate floor is something we will be seeing in the months ahead whether it's rubio or rand looking to the senate to make a point about the presidential campaign. we'll have you back when that happens. thank you for that great reporting this week. appreciate it. up ahead, joe biden is still going to iowa. is he still thinking about a white house run? we will discuss.

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doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here. all right. there is a tug going on this morning. let's get caught up on the other headlines making news with the panel. i got the index card. we call this one catching up. let's see the first headline is from "the new york times." headline no copies of clinton e-mails on server. lawyer says here we go again. the house select committee on benghazi has been told by a clinton family lawyer there are no e-mails on that server other than what she has submitted. she submitted her e-mails to the department of state. they said the settings were then changed to kill e-mails after # 0 days. here we go. -- unless there's a computer trick we don't know about, we're

not getting anymore hillary e-mails e-mails. >> team hillary says we can nut use the term secretive because that is sexist. this does reinforce the fact she is secretive. >> i never wanted to put a lot of stock in this non-scandal. do you think this person with this level of experience in government knowing she was going to run for president, do you think she wrote something down that she shouldn't have? >> that's why -- i don't want to rehash this. i don't. that's why i say, why did she go to such extraordinary lengths to shield these things from public view? it makes people thing something is there. >> it's not -- it was not an intelligent political move right? lawyers are aware of like i want to not appear right, you know to do the wrong thing. but, i mean come on do you really think there's a there there? you don't. you said you don't. >> it's just a bad approximatepractice.

she should not have done it. >> next one. here's a headline from msnbc -- i wonder how we got this. the headline is stop chris christie. -- he has stopped already. former republican congressman the antiimmigration activeshes started a super pac to destroy chris christie. he's basically said we have not tried to raise any money. >> i'm sure chris christie was shaking in his boots that he was going to try to be stopped. they're resting easy. come on -- no there, there. >> just the fact -- whether he was going to have an impact. the fact he reached that conclusion -- >> i think it's a great line for somebody who couldn't raise mine for their super pac. >> i think he is right, christie doesn't have that much of a chance to get that far. as we were saying before

looking forward to seeing him in the debates, he and ted cruz being in a debate together will be very interesting television. but do you really think that when america really gets to see who chris christie is they're going to be more interested? >> can i tell you you gave us a great segue. speaking of ted cruz republican congressman said ted cruz supporters are making boorish calls to my office. he put out a statement, the language -- i -- anyway the immerture language is what most kids out grow and move beyond. the fact that women and -- young women in my office has to listen to this perverse comments is

awful. >> i think ted cruz is not expecting peter king's endorsement. i mean peter king is a fairly moderate republican. ted cruz is a strong conservative. they disagree on policy on a lot of really important issues. i don't think this is going to have any -- are ted cruz's supporters meaner than jeb bush's? i think there's any evidence of that. i think they're more conservative. i don't think they're more mean. >> they kind of play off each other well. you could always raise money off of it. we're setting a record. the fourth headline. this is from deadline hollywood. walking dead companion series called fear the walking dead. amc announcing a new show. it will be called fear the walking dead. it will be set in los angeles. i guess that means it will be about the la lakers. >> very nicely done. >> that's why i wanted to get that one. everybody loves the walking dead. >> i thought this was about the

gary hart o'malley story. >> that's a fun one, too. >> not only does the walking dead do incredibly well the talking dead where they talk about the episode that aired, that does well. >> is that an actual show? >> yes, is that a -- >> after the walking dead they have a comedian talk to actors about the show they just watched. it does extremely well. of course they will -- this show is already approved for two seasons before it's even aired. they are fully in this. >> i'm pleased to announce after this shoew allen alda will be here to discuss our show. maybe i put an idea out there. up next -- we did four shoirz stories. what one astronaut is attempting to do what no american has ever done before in

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astronaut scott kelly waking up this morning on board the international space station. morning number one of 342. he is going to be in space for almost an entire year. this is nasa's first attempt at a one year space flight. captain kelly chosen in part because of his twin brother. you may know him better as the husband of former congresswomen gabby giffords. the scientists want to measure the effect of long term weightlessness. they'll be using his twin birth as brother as a comparison. more details on the 342 days to come. if you want to do 23 more days do a whole year. he first announced a run for president. is another campaign just around the corner? the evidence is next, stay right

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joe biden has bun running for president for over three decades now. which makes it hard for some to believe he won't be running in 2016 . biden has taken none of the steps necessary behind the scenes to prepare for a presidential run. the vice president created 2016 chatter with visits to iowa new hampshire and south carolina. he has not done any of the groundwork and leg work necessary to set up actual kpanz in those states. does that mean that he couldn't join? what does he do in the meantime. here to help us answer? of those questions is the author of story we talked about msnbc's

editor. i feel like this has got to be killing joe biden. you show in the article. in the 80s, he ran in 2008. he's always wanted this. he got to number two. he got to see vice president and it looks off limits. >> this is one of the youngest guy ever elect today the senate. he's been thinking about this for 30 years. he's so close, he can picture hill himself. >> also recognizes reality. he recognizes that,ist not his year. even if hillary clinton wasn't in this race i'm not sure a guy that just turned 7 #, a white man, for a party that really is about young people, and mitt minorities. >> he has had that moment. publicly he's doing enough to keep chatter out there.

he goes to iowa he does some events. if he's ever asked about it he says he's keeping his options open. you're commenting that he's coming to terms he's being edged out. >> if you're a smart politician you also want to keep your options open. theres a benefit to him in having this hanging out there politically. it ups his lenchage and profile. for the same reason that elizabeth wearen wants to be in the 2016 discussion. for him, it's about defending the obama biden legacy. this is something he's adopted and gone around the country telling democrats that they need to run on this and embrace this. he knows that clinton is going to contrast herself. she's going to have to with the president. she wants to lay down a marker. we're defending this. we want to go down in history as a great administration. she stumbled, something, you know, god forbid happens, he wants to be ready to go out the

gate. >> it's an extraordinary situation. we talk about how strong hillary clinton looks. i can't think of a time. you would have to go back to alvin barkley, harry truman's vice president wanted to succeed him. wanted to be president and was told in 1952 you're too old. that's the last time i can think of a vice president who really wanted it and couldn't have a shot of it. it's a crazy situation. >> nobody dreams more of being president, except maybe julia louie drifs. i think he's smart to keep the pilot light on. if hillary clinton does stumble, joe biden is the one guy that could turn it on overnight. he would have a network and would have organization out there. it doesn't really behoove him to try to compete with her right now. there is not really a space for imhad. the only opportunity he could have is if she gets tripped up. he's the guy who could step up quickly.

>> you are so afraid of joe biden being the leader, the guy under the microscope. i mean, the guy is a gaff machine. incredibly folksy love the guy, but he's so often saying things he shouldn't be saying. under the presidential microscope perry? that guy is going to be some whoppers. democrats don't want him as their candidate. this is not -- like you said if hillary was not running there would be a search for other candidates to run this is the reality. if -- >> if he wasn't running it would be elizabeth warren. >> here's numbers we can show you. this was asking democrats to question could you see you feel supporting these people or not. hillary, 86% saying they could see themselves supporting her. only 13 saying no. take a look at that list there. 54% say they could support biden. look at the no. 40%. that is double anybody else on there. al i do think it probably has a lot to do with what toure is

saying about the gaffs. it's interesting to me because joe biden somebody in the senate, 3035 years before he's vice president. he did have a reputation as being a serious guy with a deep gras want of policy. >> he was chairman of the judiciary committee, one of the most -- hillary clinton has a very strong resume. he probably has just as strong or stronger resume. it's the seriousness factor. democrats don't take him seriously to be president of the united states. it's fine for him to be vice president. even a heart beat away from the presidency. it's hard for people to get passed that. >> perry, if there were the hillary stumble and one and a thousand chance or whatever it is is elizabeth warren the front runner?

>> i think there will be a big push for her. i think the more establishment democratic part of the party would like to see someone else get in. deval patrickment i think there would be other people. she would have like the most public support, i'm not sure that she would get the nomination. i think donors -- wall street gives a lot of money to democrats. wall street is not big on elizabeth warren. is she too left. i don't think that myself. i think there would be a discussion she's too left. >> it is a fascinating story to think about and it has .0002% of happening. thank you to my panel today. appreciate you all being here. and thank you for getting up with us today. join us tomorrow sunday morning starting at 8:00 a.m. eastern time and some of the kids who took part in the white house

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♪ and introducing our new advanced filter, now better than ever. this morning my question will conservative velevangelical voters choose the nominee? and the teacher who gave away a million dollar prize. but first, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell apparently just has way too much to do. good morning i'm melissa harris-perry. it is day 140 since president obama nominated loretta