american express' timeless safety and security are now available on apple pay. the next evolution of membership is here. the battle over religious freedom and equality moves to center court. all right. good morning to you. thanks for getting up with us this final sunday morning of march. if you're a little blurry-eyed this morning then it might be because like me you stayed up a little bit past your bedtime watching the dramatic ncaa tournament game between kentucky and notre dame with the irish falling short, heartbreakingly short, agonizingly short with kentucky earning a trip to the final four keeping its dreams of a perfect 40-0 season alive

barely. it was an incredible game to watch. it also came, though, against a backdrop of growing controversy with calls of ncaa to move it out of the state of indianapolis, out of i., this after the state enact add so-called religious freedom law this week that critics say could open the door against widespread of gays. the governor who signed it may be backtracking. it's a story we like to get former congressman barney franks about. this morning we're going to do just that the also outspoken, interesting former congressman of massachusetts. we he'll be joining us and speaking with us not only about that but his new book. very excited about that. we'll also be turning our attention overseas to the latest details we've been learning

about the german pilot who prosecutors say crashed that airbus into the french alps on purpose. we're going to try to tackle some of those questions ahead. also senator ted kennedy's legacy being celebrated with a new institute. itz's it's actually opening tomorrow. we're going to take a sneak peek with his son, ted kennedy jr. and for our money, the white house science fair one of the most entertaining events held by the white house every year. two smart women who came up with science projects so spectacular they earned invitations to the white house. they'll be here on the set to walk me and bill nye the science guy through their stuff. have interesting stuff. excited about that. we begin with politics and sports in controversy, thousands taking to the streets in indianapolis this weekend to protest that religious freedom

law that indiana governor mike pence signed on thursday. it's a measure that could allow against discrimination against gays and lesbians and they include powerful business leaders. potentially causing indiana jobs and badly needed tax revenue. the indiana chamber of commerce saying it's bringing unwanted attention to the state. the ceo of yelp saying not to maintain or expand yelp's presence in indiana. canceling lists. angie's list saying it won't be adding a $40,000 headquarter in indianapolis. eli lilly, the drug giant saying it makes it hard irto recruit employs to move into the state. the ceo of apple tim cook profoundly disappointed with the law, asking that a similar bill be vetoed by that state's

governor. teen mayor of faraway seattle, washington, weighing in on this with a ban to travel to indiana in response to the law and all of this coming with indianapolis set to take center stage in the sports world, the city hosting the final four the next weekend the culmination of the ncaa basketball tournament. all the brackets you've been filling out in the last few weeks, the two teams will be known by the end of today. and the final four of course means big bucks for nichls so does the ncaa itself. they're headquartered in that city. so is the big ten conference. also the women's final four set to take place in indianapolis. but now there are calls for the ncaa to move its signature event out of its city out of the state, maybe to move itself out of the state as well. the president saying the league is especially concerned about how this ledge legislation could afegts our student athletes and

employees, adding that the ncaa will work diligently to make sure visitors next weekly won't be discriminated against. big sporting events have been moved before because of controversy. a couple of decades ago, the nfl stripped arizona of the super bowl because they rejected a martin luther king hold. a few years later, a similar bill landed on republican jan brewer's desk. >> the bill is broadly worded and could result in unintended consequences. i will veto the bill. >> that was jan brewer perhaps keeping the super bowl in her state by doing that. mike peps indiana governor a

potential presidential candidate, making a different decision this week but now this morning faced with a fierce backlash he didn't see coming there are signs he may, may be backtracking. in an interview with "the indianapolis star," pence said he will clarify the intent of the controversial new law. what now? will intense pressure from the business community force pence to gut the law they just passed or will they hold their ground and if they do what will the cost be for the state of indiana? here now from indianapolis, jim shell from platea political prachl we have a co-host of sirius xm's steel & unger. let me start on the ground with jim shell in indianapolis. so, jim, we have the governor giving an interview to "the

indianapolis star" saying he now supports some kind of legislative effort to clarify this. he was asked in an interview. he was asked would that legislation potentially make lgbt people a protected class. his response to that that's not on my agenda. do we have any sense what form this clarification might take? >> good morning, steve. what i would look for is legislation that would say that this religious freedom bill does not super cede local ordinance. here in indianapolis there is a nondiscrimination ordinance in place and city leaders believe the religious predom bill trumps it. if it makes it clear that that's not the case it looks like the governor thinks that will solve his problem.

>> it would. but then other municipalities in the state wouldn't. would that satisfy the critics here do you think? >> not necessarily. what it would do is encourage municipalities to pass their own ordinance. the only other apparent fix t one that opponents of the bill have called for is to amend the state's civil rights code to mention sexual orientation. that was attempted in the indiana house of representatives. there was a bill offered. it was voted down. the fwronch on thursday said that was not part of his agenda. >> take a step back. we all looked up and said wow, didn't see this one coming. was it sort of under the radar in indiana too? >> it was. in fact it wasn't filed at the beginning of the session. it's legislation that was put into a vehicle bill in the state senate and it's not part of the governor's agenda.

>> what about pence himself, a lost talk that he has interest in running for president, does that fit into his decision-making here do you think? >> i don't know that it does. the governor, i think, is fairly described as an ideo log. it does fit his world view. >> all right. jim shella a political reporter. thanks for the time this morning. really appreciate it. and let me bring the nanl here. let's talk about this one. guys, as i said in the interview there, i feel like this just sort of snuck up on everybody and now it's become one of those things that i think pence wasn't even anticipating the backlash. he's caught in a particularly tough situation because this is a guy with strong ties to the social conservatives, he's done something they really like here, and now the business community, another big pressure group on the republican side giving other indications. what does he do here?

>> i think it's interesting he didn't hold a ceremony and try to trumpet it. he's stuck and obviously you have this confluence of events and that's why i think you're seeing pressure from the business groups. wait sounds like the law is it's not very well defined, that it's sort of unclear exactly what kind of -- what kind of things that this would set out. but i would point out these types of laws are nothing new. there's law even president clinton signed into law. >> where is the outrake on this particularly and not in other states? >> i'll tell you what he did that i think he thought would be clever but it didn't work out that way. the way this bill is crafted, it's an affirmative defense.

if you could raise this as an affirmative defense and get it off the hook. by setting it up that way, it becomes something they really would not follow. it's technical and yet it didn't turn out that way and now you're about to see it going through arkansas. no doubt will pass the house and now you're seeing it bubbling in georgia. >> that's the thing. when i look at businesses, comp racings, eli lilly, huge drug corporation, these are in many cases donors on the republican side. more the point it means jobs for the state. it seems to me when there's such widespread corporate outrage, it's not sustainable. >> the question is how mike pence couldn't have seen it coming is the real question. you're right. he does have strong roots with social conservatives, but when he was in the house was seen as,

you know a business, you know tax guy, spending guy, things like that. you figure he would have these connections. and the fact is corporations businesses have been so far ahead of these kind of lgbt kinds of issues, corporations have had domestic partnership things for like 20-some years in many cases. so it's really surprising that the governor wouldn't have seen this kind of a pushback coming. >> we have played a clip here. this was a weekend update. if you weren't staying up late watching the basketball game you might have been watching "snl" last night and they mad a little rif on the situation. let's play that. >> you'll be able to tell which stores are supporting the law because they'll have these helpful little signs. >> it's true. a lot of these stores you think will face a big backlash. as you were saying a minute ago,

this is something we have seen in other states going forward. this almost like going to be a litmus test that elements of the rights or social conservative rights insist on. >> it's so complicated. it appear on the surface to be very discriminatory. we don't like it. ask yourself a question. let's say somebody is coming into your bakery and they say we're having a nonwhite power meeting next week and we want a chocolate cake with swastikas on it. what's the difference between that and a gay couple who wants a wedding cake. >> you think there is -- >> i would hate to be the judge on the court that has to sort this out and this is where it's going to go. >> and for quite a while there has been this kind of debate whether discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is

precisely the same as discrimination on the case of rachls i mean there are division divisions even within the african-american community whether these are parallel or because of the way religion forces views, if there's a distinction. rick is quite right. this is a difficult kind of thing and it could end up in the supreme court. >> that's an interesting hypothetical you raise there and it has me thinking. at the same time the intent seems clear. the origins seem clear. this is the next phase in the culture wars we're always talking about. this is the new front, the religious conservatives, social conservatives, whatever you want to call them have opened up. this is what they expect to see. in rye response on the gay rights side they need to knock them off the books. >> i think you're going to see

more of these questions being raised after we get a supreme court decision after this summer that could legalize gay marriage nationwide and ice going to open up questions. you could see them revisiting the federal standards. as the indiana reporter mentioned, is it the local law, federal law, state law too. i think rick's right that the -- i think we're going see this in the courts and we could see competing different standards. >> i wonder how it works practically. the only thing you can tell about somebody is are they black, or how they white. you can see that. beyond that how can you know if somebody is gay or this or that? >> in the context of these things, i use the wedding cakes. you go into a bakery and then they can figure out. >> or do you want to have male statues on top of the cake -- >> just ask for the female and

mail and switch it later. >> look for a rich guy how to live under the indiana law anyway. it's too late for the ncaa to move that. still ahead, barney frank will be here to weigh in on what's happening in indiana and everything else that's happening in news and politics. first, new developments overnight in yemen and the nuclear talks with iran and how the white house is reacting. that is next. take zzzquil and sleep like... you haven't seen your bed in days. no, like you haven't seen a bed in weeks!

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as we speak this morning, the white house is dealing with two crises that threaten to further destabilize the middle east with the clock ticking on the deal to halt the deal with iran. john kerry has changed his plans in order to stay for more

negotiations. at the same time yemen is going to continue with air strikes until iran surrenders. with more on why kerry is sticking around in switzerland how the white house is dealing with these developments kristen welker. good morning. >> good morning. i think they're looking at the pressure looming. the pressure to get a deal couldn't be a greater. as you pointed out, john kerry changing his plans. he changed his plans to continue the talks in switzerland. so that gives you a sense of just how important this is. u.s. officials are signals that they're getting closer to reaching a deal and there are reports this morning that iran has accepted a term that they have limited the terms to about 6,000. one of the largest sticking points continues to revolve around sanctions. iran wants a deal. the u.s. and its european allies

are not going to agree to that. they're saying they should only be fazed out over time and only when it's clear. prime minister benjamin netanyahu who is openly expressing concerns about the deal coming together thingks the u.s. is too lenient, iran is months from building a bomb and they shouldn't be allowed to have any machines to enrich uranium. this is all against that important backdrop. the youty rebels drove out the president and are backed by iran. yemen is really a proxy war between saudi arabia and iran with saudi arabia concerned that iran is going to encroach on its territory and oil and gas interests in the region. senior officials insist what is happening right now in yemen is not going to undercut the talks about iran, but i'm also told that it has been a topic of conversation on the sidelines.

it's really important also to stress that what secretary kerry is trying to negotiate for tuesday is a political agreement. in other words, the actually deadline for a deal isn't until june. so it's critical. i'm told they have no plans to extend the initial deadline. back to you. >> kristen welker live at the white house. i appreciate that. still ahead, president john kerry sticking around as that tuesday deadline looms. we're following all of the developing news happening now. updates as they become available. first, though jeb bush's first quarter campaign chest is shattering all records. will it be enough to get him the nomination? it may not. we're going to take you through the numbers. that's next. business you have to work hard, know your numbers, and stay focused. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it.

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e plane and thought... yeah! empty seat next to me. and then i saw him slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking. i was downloading a movie. i was trying to download a movie. i have verizon. i don't. i get that little spinning wheel. download didn't finish. i finished the download. headphones on. and i'm safe. i didn't finish in time. so. many. stories. vo: join us and save without settling. verizon. big news from the world of presidential campaign money to report to you tonight.

political pros call this early fund-raising part of it the first primary. tonight we have a winner. george w. bush stunned everybody by disclosing he has raised $36.1 million. that smashes all previous standing records. >> that was 16 years ago. that is a dramatic illustration of the role in the power. like it or not that money plays in choosing who the next president will be. that was the summer of 1999 and it was that news that revelation that you just heard there that really catapulted jonch w. bush on his way to the white house. it was the end of the second quarter, the second set of three months basically halfway through the year in 1999. these were the kinds of numbers we were talking about. george w. bush raising $37 million. his next closest rival steve "forbes" with his own money. this was shock when it happened. it caused a lot of republicans, people in media, people in politics in general to look at

george w. bush to say he's the overwhelming favorite. he got the endorsements a lot more money because of it. it's really the reason he went on to win the nomination a year later. it's what happened in 1999. that's the thing we wanted to look at right now, how the early money could affect what ends up happening next year in the presidential race. you see this is the example of 1999 how george bush cornered the republicans early. here's another example. the first three months january, february, march, of 2007 a full year before they were actually running in primaries against each other. hillary clinton running against barack obama. she did very well. she raised 30$30 million. but look at this. birmingham raised over $25 million. the first senator from illinois.

is he serious? is he not? when he raised that kind of money, it made him serious made others put money on him. again, that's another example of the money. why are we talking about it right now? here it is. this coming monday marks the end of the first quarter for the 2015/2015 presidential cycle. we will soon know what these republican candidates are raising and the big question is how much is jeb bush going to bring in. everything you saw here, that's what jeb's trying to replicate. he's trying to replicate it. he's looking at raising $100 million. can jeb bush bring in $100 million? if he does take a look at how that would compare historically. you look at his brother back in 1999. this is the kind of money jeb bush is looking to bring in. if he does, you'll hear talk he

may be the front-runner, but here's the twist. we want to show you this. if you look outside of the money and you look at the poll numbers, they're looking at a different poll story. take a look at this. the horse race on the republican side the national republican poll jeb bush is only running at 16%. you think about that. how many people know the bush name the bush family especially in the republican party. you think of all the attention he's gotten in the press, all the stories and he's sitting there with just 16%. that is very low. that is very weak for somebody who comes to the race with everything he has. it raises the question. if he brings in all that money, is it going to translate into better poll numbers or is there more resistance than we realize? here's the latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll. look at this. jeb bush is sitting here in last place among the big names, lower than his brother george w. that's a significant problem for

him and then there's this. same poll asking republican primary voters. could you see yourself voting for this candidate? look at where jeb is coming in here? he's way back. less than 50% of republicans saying they could see themselves support them. more than 50% saying they could. compare that to scott walker marco rubio. much healthier numbers. again, it's showing there's a lot of resistance and a lot of resistance to jeb bush and republicans. we'll see how much money he brings in. the next question is it enough? keep your eye on that. still ahead, 2016 race and other things i want to get to but won't have time for. barney frank joining us in the next hour to talk about politics. he's been both an asset and lie built. how does hillary clinton plan to use bill clinton or not use bill clinton on the campaign trail

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all right. there's a lot going on this morning. let's get caught up on others. this is the index card segment. one of my favorites every week. let's take a tour of the headlines and start with this one. this is from "the new york times." headline, to avert repeat of clinton 2008. hopes to keep bill at his best. she may be a little worried about bill clinton and some of the trouble he stirred up in 2008. they want to make sure he has a clear mission in any hillary campaign clear channel to top opposites. here's a really interesting anecdote. they also say this in the story. in 2012 when mitt romney spoke at the annual clinton global initiative rally in new york he

gave him advise on,000 appear in command. bill clinton giving advice to mitt romney. >> he did well on the first one. >> he did. he came off very well the first time thanks to bill clinton now we know. >> this is going to be a big question for them as to how do you handle bill. we were talking this week how does he factor into the announcement? is he going to give a speech? it raises lots of questions. she's got to be her own woman obviously and she has her own record to run on absolutely and i think you're going to hear her talking about that like where does he factor in? he's obviously a former president, bringing so much heft with that. but he likes to micro manage. he likes to get in there and be involved and we saw how that hurt her in south carolina, you know, in things he would say to sort of jab at obama last time. >> we just put those numbers up in the last segment too. right now he's the most popular

guy out there. >> he still is yeah. it's a double-edged sword. >> listen. he loves the political scrum. hillary does not like campaigning. it doesn't come naturally to her. he loves the scrum. he loves talking to reporters. he loves being in the -- he loves being in the mix of things. you can't turn something like that off as much as -- i me i know people --'ve got these stories, we're going to handle him, he's going to be under control. he's going to be this, he's going to be that. i'll believe it when i see it. >> let's be honest. when bill clinton is not at his best is precisely when he's at his very best. this is what we love about bill clinton. this man has reached that amazing status in our society where he gets a permanent pass, you know? he can really do no wrong, let's face it. >> it is one of the more -- yeah,ite bess an generation since he's been on the national stainless. what else do we have? this is from "nh journal," "new

hampshire journal." in grafton county new hampshire, they asked republican candidates to send up ties. jeb bush has the highest. 35 bucks for the jeb bush tie. this was held through ebay. the second place was george pataki. >> it says you can definitely undermine this -- >> that is the highest george pataki is going to get. >> last place in this thing, by the way, was rick santorum. >> he didn't wear ties. >> he should have auctioned off a sweater vest. >> i think trump came in like 13th. >> which is actually surprising because he has a line of ties. >> but they're not very good. >> apparently. where was the arena? she auctioned off a scarf. >> it's not on the index card. >> do you think george pataki

came on with a check for, what was it $250 $350 and he couldn't go that extra 5 bucks to buy back the tie? >> maybe that's a good strategy. this is video that's sort of floating around out there but let's put it up. yesterday, i don't know if you knew this. i didn't but yesterday was earth hour. this is a designated hour of the day, i guess it was between 8:30 and 9:30 on saturday night where people were asked to dim their light, turn their lights off for a nonessential hour. this is an annual event on the last saturday of march. you have a bunch of different pictures. the eiffel tower, the city of rome this was held worldwide. i wish i had known. i would have shut my lights off. >> that was when i was getting through new york and driving

through times square. i do not think the lights were dimmed at all. >> maybe next year we'll make a department. what else do we have. headline not just sugary sweet. hard cider makes a come back. a new bar is devoted to hard cider. sales have been doubling every year. ? >> i don't like beer. i'm a wine drinker. >> when i was a kid i used to actually make it. i would take sigh ter, put in all the fermentation stuff, stick it under my bed and let it sit there for a month or two and drink it. >> do you think it's time to dust it off? >> no. i think i'll go buy it. >> in charlottesville there are a lot of wineries and cider. i'm all for it. i don't like beer. >> i like beer.

i'm not a cider afish nacionado. but i like cider. >> that's not a good track record for cider. >> the bits of trivia you get on "up with steve kornacki." >> it was one of the presidents. >> maybe it was andrew jackson. still ahead, one former u.s. ambassador's stark assessment of our policy and, plus the latest on the devastating fire in new york city. that is straight ahead. ♪ ♪ ♪

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collapsed three buildings in downtown manhattan. it is difficult and painstaking work. they're using a forklift to deposit debris in the middle of the street and using sniffer dogs to sniff through. this could continue in 24-hour days. as for what caused the explosion, utility workers have discovered multiple leaks to the gas line of a restaurant on the ground floor where that occurred. gas service was restored after utilities deemed it safe. more details as they become available. when we return the former ambassador has stern words about his concerns over the foreign policy with iraq. he tells us about those concerns after this. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases with your ink plus card from chase. and with ink, i choose how to redeem my points

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the deadline for the nuclear negotiations with iran is now two days aa way and an agreement does not seem to be forthcoming. that is the latest from

switzerland just moments ago. this is from mbcsn correspondent andrea mitchell. they cannot settle on final details. iran refusing to accept the current limits on their nuclear program. negotiators are up against the deadline on tuesday. of course, this is a self-imposed deadline so technically it can challenge. the iranians are upbeat while the u.s. is grim. if they don't reach a deal, all bets are off on that front. president obama and secretary of state john kerry want this agreement badly. the president facing a legacy moment here. meanwhile in washington the rhetoric and criticism of how the obama administration is handling the chaotic situation in the arab world is only growing hotter. one of the most eye-popping quote this week coming from one of president obama's former ambassadors to iraq quote we're in a goddamn freefall

here. under the adviser, now a fellow at the washington institute. a think tank on u.s. and middle east policy. ambassador, thanks for joining us this morning. let me just start with that comment. you offered the most stark, probably harsh assessment of it. explain what you're thinking of there. >> first of all, we're not in charge of anything or anything in the middle east ever. it ooh's very dangerous region for decades. in the past few years, the arab spring and o'developments have really turned it into a tailspin. the question is how has the administration responded. not with the necessary consistency, with the support for our allies and the willingness to threaten and use smart military force that has characterized the actions of presidents since the 1950s and that's added to the problems we're facing and they're dramatic ones. >> there are so many puzzle

pieces, so many moving parts, however you want to talk about this, whether it's yemen whether it's the battle against isis in iraq civil war in syria. there are so many pieces. where do you see the administration specifically dropping the ball here? >> first of all, we have to support our allies even if we don't like them. that began with letting mubarak fall. that's continued in other areas. we've drifted away from saudi arabia, from turkey and from is reechlt these are not easy allies. but they require support. secondly, we have to be respected and even feared in the middle east and look like we're willing to sustain. it's a good thing. the president just announced it. simultaneously, hour he said they're all going to be out by 2016. we know that isn't true. if he does that which i doubt, the next president whoever he oar she is, is going to put them back in.

but by saying these kinds of things, we look like we're waffling waffling, like we're weak. >> rick? >> ambassador in my lifetime, every generation has brought a moment where the middle east seems to be reach that point where it boils over. this certainly seems to be one of those moments. i'm curious where you see this one as compared to other points in time where the middle east has exploded. >> 1979 is the last period where you can say we were at that point. with the soviets engaged with afghanistan. another group of sunni islamic revolutionaries seizing the grand mosque in mecca. at that point, however, president carter at great rif tock his presidency took a series of decisions, the carter doctrine, to defend our interest in the region. he supported against the advice of many the shah of iran. that cost him dearly. but that maintained our

relationships with many people for decades. people noticed that in the middle east. then ronald reagan came in and at the end we had a relatively stable situation after several conflicts including a war in the gulf with iran but we held the line in the region. we're not holding the line now. >> ambassador i'm curious. you served in the obama administration and the previous administration, george w. bush's administration. how do you rate the obama administration in its handling versus george w. bush and his handling? >> both presidents have tried to deal with the situation after 9/11, which is a unique situation even by the standards of a violent middle easement president was very bold went into afghanistan, into iraq. we accomplish add fair amount but we couldn't maintain the support of the american people and that's critical. president obama on the other hand responding to that has followed policies that all in all until recently have met with support by the american people who didn't want to be engaged,

but it hasn't maintained security in the region and that's the bottom line for any president in that region. it's so critical to us for so many reasons. >> ambassador robert george from the "new york post." do you think the president is sort of trapped by his campaign rhetoric where he basically promised the american people that he was with drawing the american footprint in the middle east and is it his inability to spin away from that that is causing some of this chaos? >> no i don't think so. this is a very smart man who pays close attention to the middle east. i think he doesn't trust his advisers. those advisers that he had in the first administration, the secretaries of state, secretaries of defense, cia director, were basically of the same traditional line that i am. i think he saw the surge in afghanistan, the effort to keep troops on in afghanistan and certainly libya and failed in

policies and he decided to strike out on his own and decided to put all his bets on iran as that being a transformational 'agreement in the middle east an agreement he thinks would change so much in the region. i disagree. so many others do as well. >> maybe you can elaborate on that point. the same article where you had the quote how things are in a freefall, the same article at the end of it, someone was quoted as saying what you just said. the truth is you can dwell on yemen, recognize we're one agreement away from a game changing nuclear set on iran which everyone agrees is oh fish. in the same article where you were quoted ambassador. so you're saying you disagree with the optimism the admin administration has, that if they could strike a deal with iran that could change the whole situation in the middle east. >> i love that state department post because it brings so close everything i and others worry

about. no, a deal is not necessarily bad thing. it's not going to change iran any more that in the end our reachout in the end to china changed their long-term ambitions to dominate the region. as we see, that's the iranian goal in this region. that's what everybody perceives in the region. that's no what we're responding to at least until today. >> ambassador jessica taylor with the hill. we've seen congress being resistant to foreign policy. do you think the administration think this is their last chance to get the policy footprint out there and sort of bolster their legacy? >> that's a very good point and it gets back to the earlier point about the two administrations. it's not good to compare two presidents. they're all different. president bush took a different

one. he left office in much better shape than a few years before. president obama has basically ignored the results of the elections that gave both houses to the republicans and he surely does not want to work with them they don't want to work with him either. we're in a real mess back here as we try to present a united front. >> as we reported at the top of the segment. andrea andrea michtchell over in switzerland saying the deadline not looking good. thank you former ambassador james jeffrey. appreciate the time. >> thank you. >> when we return the interview we have been promising you, the always outspoken barney frank. he's live. he is with us next. another full hour of news and politics ahead. stay with us. s really fun-to-drive. go for it. okay. wow... woohoo! i'm dreaming... pinch me. no, not while you're driving. and, right now, you can get a one-thousand-dollar volkswagen credit bonus on jetta models.

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all right. thanks for staying with us this hour. lots more still ahead as we continue on a very busy sunday morning. friend of the show congressman, former congressman barney frank author of fast it inning new book about his career. he'll be here to discuss his life and politic and what politics is like today amid big news that indiana governor mike pence appears to be trying to put the tooth paste back in the tube on the new religious freedom law that might promote discrimination f we plan to ask barney frank about that in a moment. we're also going to check in on the germanwings plane crash in the french alps and the co-pilot who may have been responsibility for the crash might have been hiding more about his health from his employers than has been reported so far. lots of chatter about 2016 but none of it seems to be about new

york governor andrew cuomo. what's changed there. we'll try to answer that question. it's also skriensz fair day here at "up." some of the same kids who showed their science projects to the president at the white house are going to be here on the set to show us and bill nye the science guy experiments. some cool project lgs to show you. we're also looking forward to discussing the legacy of ted kennedy with his son ted kennedy junior. president obama setting to open the new ted kennedy institute tomorrow. right now we have a sneak peek. i'm told inside there's a full replica of the senate chamber. we begin this hour with a new law and a lot of outrage. this the scene in indianapolis yesterday as thousands took to the streets to protest that state's new religious freedom law that many believe could allow discrimination against guys and lesbians. as we've reported it looks like

indiana's governor mike pence might be backtracking. maybe. he supports more legislation to quote, clarify the intent of the controversial new law, but when asked if that might include specific protections for gays and lesbians pence said that's not on his agenda. that's a story we want to discuss with our next guest, barney frank one of the most outspoken members of congress for 32 years. he's one of the most influential as well. he served during the height of the financial crisis. he's also the first openly gay member of congress. he reflects on all of that and more in his new memoir frank, a life in politics from the same society to same-sex marriage and he joins us live from maryland. thanks for being with us. we have this religious freedom

bill signed into law. they want to sign legislation, it would fall short. i'm curious your reaction to what's happening in indiana and what you think should happen next. >> first, steve, i appreciate that. frankly it kind of validates one of the themes of the book, which is the progress we've been making fighting this prejudice. it's interesting to see a very conservative republican governor on the defensive claiming quite implausably a law whose service is for gays and lesbians. first we ought to explain to people what's at stake here. nobody is denying an individual in his ore her private capacity to be as bigoted or personal as he wants. when you open a business you are being given a set of privileges and protections from the society to make some money

and in return the obligation has always been been under basic common law that you serve the general public that anybody who behaves well can be served because frankly there's only a limited amount of space, limited amount of business. your being there means somebody else would. be there. the notion that a business can pick and choose is very damaging. secondly, it can't be restricted to only gays and lesbians. if you're a very orthodox catholic, someone who has been mair and divorced and wanted to be married without annulment is violating church laws and maybe they'll be denied. in certain areas where they've been islamic, stores could refuse service to women who weren't properly clothed or covered. the major objective to this, and we saw this in arizona, when arizona passed along the business persuasive most sensebling businesses don't want such a law. they don't want to be in a position where they're going to

be pulled by one group to deny service, another group to grant service. most rational businesses want to be in the business of selling their service, leaving their political views to other things. so i'm not surprised at the outcry. i don't know how pence is going to, you know undo what he did but it is encouraging that that's what he's getting pressure to do. >> we were talking about this. they were asking where do you draw the line though? if you're a business owner, you're saying anybody who's well behaved should be entitled to the same services. he said, here's an extreme example. if a ne-yo nazi group went to a bakery and said we want to have a cake with nazr symbols all over it we wouldn't be upset the if a cake business decided not to do that. >> of course not. here's where you draw the line. you do not have the right that the business deviate from its basic principles but you have a

right they comply. if they said, we walkts a cake like any other cake, you have to sell it to them. i'm not asking for a gay couple to have a pornographic cake. if you don't want to do that, you have a right not to do it. and that's i think, the key distinction. you are a group. you cannot go in and tell the businessman, all right, i'm not used to your usual practices but if they say i want to be treat and served in the same way as anybody else then that has to be complied with. >> as i say, i want to talk about your books. there are all sorts of political memoir. yours is particularly interesting though. one of the things you're grappling with is how to blend idealism with praguematicism. >> exactly. if you engage in something

that's fun and insights your solidarity with others you're almost certainly not doing your cause any good. can you elaborate on that a little bit? >> well i was struck as you talked about the people demonstrating in the end against this law and my first thought was i wonder how many of thome voted in the last election. i wonder how many of them voted whengislateors who were voting for this were being elected. like i said before i agree with occupy more than the tea party. i wish the occupy would show it. when many people on the left get mad, they march. people on the right, they vote. voting means marching. my colleagues in the house there would be a big demonstration. they didn't know who was there. but if a single number of voters were to call their state

legislators, it has a big impact. expressive demonstrations are more an outlet for your feelings. the best thingky say is this. pound for pound, the nra is the most influential organization in the word. i wish they weren't. i vote against them on almost any issue but you don't see nra marches and demonstrations. they don't have shootings. they vote and they get their people to vote and they lobby very effectively, and i wish my allies would do the same. >> interesting points there. i want to talk to you, looking ahead to 2016. you were on this show other thever the summer. at the time you said you were on board with hillary clinton. now she's leading. certainly in good shape. when you look at her road to the white house, what do you think could trip her up? >> i -- i don't see anything specific. let me say -- let me specifically say not e-mails. i have found a number of voters going back to my own career who

care about which e-mail service somebody used or what paper they signed to be minimal. if anything came consider not minimal. sub minimal. if anything came out in the e-mails that was embarrassing and there's no reason to think there is or probably there would have been something that might have hurt her. no i think maybe there will be some -- well this dispute with israel is a potential for democrats but it's important. we continue to strongly support the note of israel. it's a democratically jewish state, but that does not mean you have to support the policies of benjamin netanyahu. we're all used to making a distinction between the leader of the country and the leader. i think we can successfully do that. on the other hand i think the republicans have a terrible problem. they're very very split. i don't see a candidate who can bridge their gap between the kind of traditional sort of mainstream conservative tichlsm and

this this angry group to the right. so i'm somewhat optimistic. >> jeb bush, we put this up earlier, favorable and unfavorable voters. that is less popular even than his brother george w. who did not leave office with great numbers. the conventional wisdom certainly is jeb bush is the most electable republican candidate. do you buy into that? is he the biggest threat on the republican side? >> no. i think scott walker is because at this point at least he's so less defined. although i would home -- look, one of the big things people talk, part of the theme of my book how do we deal with this economic inequality, which is the reason we democrats have lost the vote to the kind of people who used to vote for fdr and john kennedy. i don't think it was us us gay people. gay rights have gone ahead and that's not the reason for the alienation. i think it's the economy. i think it's the failure of the government to respond

economically by people who have been hurt by economic trends. one key piece. i think it's now clear to people that many, including middle class liberals have undervalued unions and keeping up wages, holding wages up. i think scott walker's number one apeople to right is he is a union buster private sector and public sector. i hope some of the white guys construction worers and others who understand the role of unions trying to protect them that that will turn against them. i thought jeb bush was. when terry shiavo was on her bed and her husband wanted to stop the force feeding into her body that had no other signs of life jeb bush gonlt got his brother to convene a special session of congress cancel the law. the more jeb bush got george

bush to do was held totally unconstitutional. the american public was outraged t fact that they would dictate. jeb bush is an absolute fanatic on this subject. one of the things we have to deal with is what to do when they're in that stage, when life has passed and is there a right for the individuals themselves to make some judgments. i think jeb bush's fanaticism on that is a logistical issue and belies his image. >> we're running low on time but i want to get one more question on. the book looking back at your entire career. so many people you've served with, encountered with in politics. i wonder when you look back on your career do you have a favorite republican and favorite democrat you worked with? >> there were two favorite republicans, both senators. warren redman. i thought that was a great

thing. and then al simpson who i worked with and we got rid of the anti-gay immigration position and rob paul had great deal of integrity, with whom i worked on military spending and iran. when he started taking seriouslying he might be president i approached him in 2012 and asked him to sign and he said, oh, i can't do that. he told me my people are telling me you're killing me in iowa. other than that he was pretty good. on the democratic side let me cite two people who were great. tip o'neill and nancy pelosi. two people who did a great job as being a speaker. particularly with speaker pelosi, i think all four years -- you know democrats get criticized. we don't do enough. there's only been four years in 1980 that the democrats had the house, the senate, and the

prison den presidency. i think they were the best in terms of public policy in american history and that gets lost with all of the problems that came afterward. but i give her a lot of credit for that. >> all right. former congressman barney frank. really appreciate the time this morning. >> thank you steve. >> the book is "life and policy of same-sex marriage." new developments with the co-pilot believed to be responsible for the crash of 9525. andreas lubitz received treatment for problems with his vision that could affect his future as a pilot. they were told they had no knowledge he had these medical problems. katy tur joins us live. katy. >> reporter: hi there, steve. the german newspaper is reporting pretty chilling new this morning. they say they've got a transcript of the final minutes

inside that plane, the final minutes as it plunged toward the mountainside. they say it starts with the pilot mentioning to the co-pilot andreas lubitz he didn't get a chance to go to the bathroom. lieu lubitz encourages him to go. he doesn't respond. once they reach altitude he get up and leaves and says you're in charge and that's when you hear the door of the cockpit click shut. the next thing you hear the pilot knocking and banging and saying "open the damn door." that's when you hear him hitting the door with the axe and the screams of the passengers. very chilling. they do in fact, hide an axe within the cabin only for an emergency. also reporting on his medical

state. "the new york times" reporting that he had eye issues that could have derailed his career as a pilot. the german newspapers out here are also reporting about some sort of mental instability or depression. so far none of this leads us to find a reason as to why he would crash this plane into a mountainside. investigators are still looking into that trying to figure out as much as they can about andreas lubitz at this time. now, they've been to his house. they found doctor's notes, torn up doctor's notes for the day of the crash that excused him from work that day, doctor's notes that did not go to the airline to excuse him from work instead found in a trash can. still no hard evidence or answers about why this happened. steve? >> terrifying details. katy tur from germany. stilt l ahead, they're all gathering in boston tomorrow to celebrate the legacy of ted kennedy.

we'll be talking to his son ted june yoor and bring you to o sneak peek inside. and could one of the normal maladies be a lollipop. she'll join us on the other side of the break to tell us and bill nye the science guy all about it. car. but i just keep putting it off. it's daunting. what if i make the wrong choice? it's like, if i buy a t-shirt and then change my mind i can return it. but a car? you don't reeeaaa eeeeeaaaaaly know until you've driven it a few days. i just want to be sure. ♪ ♪ as long as people drive cars carmax will be the best way to buy them. i will live the life of now with the skin of then olay total effects vitamin-enriched. to fight the 7 signs of aging. in 4 weeks skin looks up to 10 years younger. 7 in 1 from the world's #1 olay. your best beautiful

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the ball changes position. when the food comes up the ball goes like this. >> okay. well, then you can look at this one. >> oh, this is wonderful. how did you guys figure this out? >> i had a brainstorming session. >> you had brainstorming session? >> yes. >> kind of a quiet day on the lake but we're starting to get a little breeze. >> yes, very true.

>> scenes from the always entertaining white house science fair, not just fun for the president but everyone watching the president getting schooled on science by america's teenagers. an 18-year-old born with scoliosis developed an implant that helped the spine to stay straight as they go. there's also a 14-year-old who designed a battery powered by carbon dioxide. we have two with us this morning. creating images of leave us was the first exhibit that president obama checked out at the fair and mallory kievman who may have finally come up with a cure for the hiccups. with us who knows a thing about science is bill nye the science guy who met with the students on monday. welcome to all of you. i just want to start by going through your projects. mallory, i want to start with you.

hold these up. these are lollipops that you develop thad you say cure the hiccups. explain this one to me. >> yeah. so i started this project about four years ago. it started as a very basic, you know research into the rumored cures for hiccups and i found three that worked for me. sugar, apple cider vinegar in the form of a lollipop. vinegar is the most effective but it's disgusting so i decided to combine the three into something more palatable for hiccups. >> there's something about the form of the lollipop that's crucial to stopping hiccups? >> yeah. the hiccups can caused by a set of nerves in your throat and mouth that cause the diagram to spasm. any pressure in those areas can help overstimulate those nerves and sort of reset that reflex.

so sucking on a lollipop helps, although as consistently does sugar. >> that's interesting. my cure was to have someone scare me. ty take me through -- you developed a sim or a program where you scan in leaves and you get -- >> you get images of their veins. inside every leaf there's a complex and they're important to a wide variety of scientists. it costs thousands of dollars an hour and it destroys the sample. so i decided to see if i could find a more economically viable and efficient way to do this and i discovered that by scanning a leaf with just your average office scanner and shining an l.e.d. flash flight over it i use the one of my i phone, at certain distances, you get

excellent pictures. we're going to show people. this would be a simulation. here's the scanner. here are sot leaves. >> those are holly hocks. >> i hope i'm not allergic to them or break into hives. you put it in the scanner. >> leave the lid open. >> or i'll crush the leaves. this is a simulation. now let's take a look. now we have the pictures of what this ends up looking like. so these are -- these are the results now. take us through what we're looking at. >> all righty. so basically you're looking at the major and minor leaf systems and angiosperm this is from the holly bush in my front yard actually. the smaller are minor leaf finat venetian systems. >> bill when i was in school i had a science fair project.

i grew grass. one of them, i put salt on the sides of the road. will the salt negatively faith the grass. i did it because it was easy. are kids getting smarter? this is amazing. >> first of all, great job, you guys. the greatest thing about this is there is a white house science fair. this is to say that this administration, i believe this president, sees the connection between innovation understanding of science, and the economic success of the united states. >> was there no science fair -- was this instituted by obamasome. >> yes, absolutely. >> yes. >> say this all the time. what keeps united states in the game is our ability to innovate to come up with new ideas that are based on science. by the way, you'll notice that these two winners are women. so i say this all the time. half the people are girls and

women so half the scientists should be girls and women. my mom was pretty good. this is important to me. this is quite an innovation. being able to identify leaves quickly is brilliant. >> this is the thing. this isn't just theoretical. >> this is the thing. this is the difference between girls and boys and this age and i'm not an expert on this but the lot is being discussed. when there's a story, when there's a problem to solve, that's when girls really respond, right? you had the hiccups, right? like a crazy thing and so you solved the problem and you came across a teacher that was -- >> i was -- actually i was in this intern ship at the museum of nature and science and we got to pursue our own research project and that's how i came across it. >> she scans it with her iphone which is a point source of light and so it was able to do the scanning. it wasn't possible -- it wasn't possible -- you didn't have this

light 20 years ago on your phone. >> right. >> somebody her age wouldn't have come across this sort of thing. so it just shows you that as we develop all this technology we all rely on it. inoe innovations. >> what was the conversation? >> oh, yes. so we mainly discussed leaf fination systems. he was a really, really nice man. he was genuinely interested in the project which was knife because it's hard to get people excited about leafing. >> i believe there's a place in the guinness world book of rock where you have a conversation with the president about leaf finations. >> it's proud to know you. it's just fantastic. i would just female size whoever succeeds the president keeps the science fair going. >> i agree. i'm going to steal a lollipop. my thanks to our two white

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ted kennedy was just 30 years old when he was elected into the senate in 1962. that's the youngest a senator can be according to the constitution. he then spent the next 47 year. that's the longest until dying of brain tumor back in 2009. when he came to the senate he was known as the president's little brother but he became a godfather-type figure to the current president. he was a liberal stalwart. he was behind no child left behind and his work is some of the highlights in his 47-year career. that's the backdrop for the

museum that opened tomorrow in boston with a speech by president obama along with vice president biden and senators elizabeth warren and john mccain. the institute is dedicated to the study and promotion of the senate and even features a full-scale reproduction of the senate floor. joining me now is senator ted kennedy jr. he's the son of the late ted kennedy and he's liven in boston. ted, thanks for taking some time this morning. let me start with this. i always look back at your tad's career, 47 years in the senate. it seem it was split two into two parts. everyone thought he wows be president some day, was he going to run and then there seemed to be that part where he said no i'm a senator, this is where i want to make my life. this is where i want to make my legacy. was there a transition like that at some point? >> well first of all, thanks for having me on the show and for telling your viewers about the opening of the edward m.

kennedy institute for the united states senate. it's something that our family has been working on. it's going to be adjacent to the kenty tynedy library and really i hope educate a new generation of americans about the importance of civic participation and government service. it's going to be really exciting. but regarding my father, you know, he -- if you had to describe him in one word i think it would be perseverance. he took that whole career 47 years, and never stopped trying to change things for the betterment of working americans. and he relishes his role sed his role in the united states senate the give and take collaboration he had with his colleagues. yes, he did run for president, as we all know. but after 1980 he really settled down and really determine thad he wanted to be the very best

u.s. senator that he could possibly be. >> and you have the roster of political leaders who are coming for this opening, not just the president and vice president but also republicans. john mccain is going to be there. and it reminds me he's sort of a liberal icon ted kennedy was. at the same time this was somebody who had good relationships with the other side, with republicans. >> well, i think that was my father's magic really was yes, he was a proud democrat, but he was never afraid to cross the aisle. if he thought he could make progress on an issue. he thought that consensus did not mean capitulation. he felt we needed to work together as a team. he made many friends both on the democratic side of the aisle and the republican side of the aisle and i think he was old school in the fact that he took the time to develop personal relationships with people that were honest friendships.

and so he was able to -- and people trusted him. he trusted them. and they were able to collaborate on a massive amount of bipartisan legislation. so i think what we're really celebrating today is the possibility of what the senate has been in the past and what it could be in the future. >> from our panel, rick ungar has a question. >> rick ungar from ""forbes."" i wonder where the senate minority leader is going to be stepping aside. harry reid is the master of the inside game. will you be abe to help americans who come to your institution understand how the senate really works as opposed to how we think the senate works? >> most people don't understand the fugs of the senate in the u.s. government today. they don't know that it's affectively takes as we all know a 60-vote majority to get anything done. so it really does require compromise and deliberation and really well thought out ideas

and plans. so i think that, you know so that is i think one of the things that we hope to teach people about. this institute, although it bears my father's name and is a celebration of his life really isn't about him. it's about the institution he loved. and that is why so many of his colleagues on both sides of the aisle are coming to really celebrate what is a very unique institution, not just in the united states but around the world. >> i just want to ask one more question here about his relationship with president obama. he passed away during president obama's first year in office but to get barack obama elected, one of the critical moments in the campaign was when ted kennedy stood up and endorsed barack obama. at the height he had a relationship with the clintons. i'm sure that was a very difficult decision personally for him to do but it was a huge moment in getting barack obama elected president.

how much did that mean to senator kennedy, the fact that barack obama became president? >> well i think he saw -- look. my dad and both bill and hillary clinton were long-time friends and the clintons and the kennedy family have worked on so many importantishes, and i have a tremendous amount of rocky mountains for both the president and mrs. clinton as did my father. he felt, however, that this was a -- that president obama could be really a transformative fig. the first african-american president was something he thought was extremely unique and just a unique moment in time and i think he developed a quick friendship with senator obama when the two were in the senate and even before that but he felt that president obama could really offer the change from, you know the preceding

republican years, and that's why he took the risky step of standing up for him at that critical moment in political history. >> ted kennedy jr. appreciate the time. >> thanks for having me on your show. >> all right. ahead, the latest on the ongoing battle for control with yemen. we speak with chief correspondent richard even gel. get fast-acting, long-lasting relief from heartburn with it neutralizes stomach acid and is the only product that forms a protective barrier that helps keep stomach acid in the stomach

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we've already reported from the latest on the white house as they monitor yemen's descent into an apparent civil war. now for more on the latest developments in yemen and what might happen next we're joined from istanbul by cheefl nbc correspondent richard engel. we're learning that led air strikes continued overnight? >> reporter: they did continue overnight, a lot of them focusing on the region on sa da. some of them around the yemeni

capital. also we're hearing of street fighting between houthi rebel and the exile of the president in the city of adan, one of the government's strong holds with the government claiming to have recaptured the airport, but there have been reports of the airport changing hands several times over the last five days. but, steve, what people in this world are talking about today is a new position coming forward from the arab states. there was an arab summit that concluded in shar mow shake, egypt, today and at that summit they called for a united arab army that would confront this ones like yemen, iran and

across the world. there is a clear dividing line that is getting clearer by the day between the sunni arab states and sunni muslim states and iran which is said to have a shiite agenda that it's trying to spread certainly across the middle east and that creation of a standing arab ar army could be quite significant. there are a lot of logistical issues that need to be worked out but it shows the arab world is trying to take a stand against iran. >> my thanks to richard engel in istanbul, turkey. up next, stay with us. n't keep you up at night. know you have insights from professional investment strategists to help set your mind at ease. know that planning for retirement can be the least of your worries. with the guidance of a pnc investments financial advisor,

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so andrea what is the latest this morning? >> reporter: well u.s. officials say they're trying to work out compromises. the chinese and others have made suggestions on one key issue, the phasinge ing fazing out of sanctions. there is a sticking point where 11 to 15 years beyond the ten years that is presumed to be the agreement, the iranians would not be able to use their technology for research and development on nuclear activity. and they say it's for peaceful purposes. the allies and the u.s. have been arguing that it could be easily converted into nuclear weapons. i think there's going to be a compromise on how to get around their paz suspicious activity. the u.n. has refused to certify that iran has not cheated in the past because iran has, as they say, the u.s. weapons has said not accounted for past warheads and missiles and it might be that they come up with some

agreement that the iaea in vienna would have to certify that iran is complying and that would then be accepted as part of this agreement. it wouldn't have to be separately negotiated. all of this is complicated. it's a big georgia jigsaw puzzle, steve. they say until something has done, nothing's been done. they have made progress but they don't have a deal. the officials say it probably won't come upntil the very last moment on march 31st i think the midnight hour tuesday morning. >> we're up against that self-imposed deadline. >> exactly. >> for all intents and purposes, could that be moved if they get close or is this thing over if they don't get it by 48 hours? >> reporter: they have twice extended before. president obama doesn't want to extend again.

the virtue is if they hold them to this agreement during the negotiations not to do any of these suspicious activities. they've basically restrained iran's nuclear program during this long 18 months and if they walk away from these talks, then anything could happen. iran could start developing technology that the u.s. and many of the european allies say is suspicious they could start refusing u.n. weapons inspectors. so there's a virtue to being at the talks but they don't want this to be open-ended. so the deadline is useful to hold all parties to account. yes, they could extend. there are a few practical things here. there is the easter holiday. in europe it starts thursday and friday with, of course all of the good friday commemorations and the religious holiday going into easter. there's also passover. there are a lot of reasons aet the same time for -- they've already missed some deadlines, by the way. john kerry really wanted to be in boston monday tomorrow, for the opening, the dedication of

the senator edward kennedy institute. that's not going to happen. they officially canceled that today. steesh? >> msnbc's andrea mitchell live in switzerland. thank you very much for that. up next, andrew cuomo's future. the author of a new biography of the democratic governor of new york joins our panel next. usiness you have to work hard, know your numbers, and stay focused. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases with your ink plus card from chase. and with ink, i choose how to redeem my points for things like cash or travel. how's the fro-yo? just peachy...literally. ink from chase. so you can. i have the worst cold with this runny nose. i better take something. dayquill cold and flu doesn't treat your runny nose. seriously? alka-seltzer plus cold and cough fights your worst cold symptoms plus your runny nose.

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one democrat whose name hasn't been floated much as a potential 2016 candidate is new york governor andrew como. the main reason for that may be that many of his fellow democrats don't seem to like him very much. when he ran for re-election last year, a little known law professor from fordham university won more than new york's counties. cuomo won the popular vote but you can see how much of new york state in terms of area wanted to deny cuomo a second term. for more on what cuomo's future holds, we're joined by michael

snayerson. author of "the contender." his father mario, was connected to running for the presidency a number of times. andrew cuomo made it clear at certain points he's interested in it but it doesn't seem like he's much of a contender these days. >> it's been quite a journey over the last three years. when i started this book in 2011 he just had a great first year as governor. there was a lot of talk of 2016. we forget now. but even with hillary as the elephant in the room, she was sort of off doing things as secretary of state. elizabeth warren hadn't won her senator seat yet. andrew looked like a very strong contender and i named my book that hoping he would run and help the book but thinking if he didn't run he would be a contender for 2020. what happened between then and now, i'd have to say his personality. >> that's the thing. it's so interesting because you think of the new york

governorship. it's a big state, a big tv market. you think of big personalities occupying it and having jobs like this. the thing about andrew cuomo is i wonder how many of them have never heard the guy speak. he's very quiet, he's very private. he operates behind the scenes. none of that endears him to the public, i would think. >> it's curious. one of the state's four political leaders told me he'd never met someone who was so mistrustful of people. >> where does that come from? >> you know it's got to come from his father. ultimately this whole book is a father-son story which is what appealed to me as a story teller. his father was very suspicious, very clannish. you could even take it back further to the cuomos from italy. there was a clannishness in the area of italy they came from. i think it's sort of in the genes. and andrew learned not to trust anyone outside of the family.

and he's kept that in his dna ever since. >> so where is this all going for him, do you think? he got re-elected to a second term. he'll be in office in new york through 2018. seems certainly blocked from any attempt at the presidency. where is this all going from? >> i would like to think he's not blocked from the presidency. you know he's already in the last three months done a couple things that helped him. banning fracking no one expected him to do that. overnight a whole wing of the party came back to him. he can do a lot in the next few years, but he's got to change his personality. i'm not sure he can do that. >> that's a pretty big ask, to change the personality especially after all these years, but i agree it's held him back publicly. my thanks to michael shnayerson and along with our tragically underused panel today. i'm sorry, we'll have you back soon. thanks for getting up this morning. thank you at home for getting up with us today. up next you'll want to stick

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this morning my question who should be apologizing for raisisme racism on campus? plus tv on color and the article that had them seeing red. and the alarming spike of hiv cases in a small midwestern town. first, a critical countdown in the middle east. good morning, i'm melissa harris-perry. for many years, world powers have tried to derail iran's nuclear program because most of the world, and especially the united states and israel do not want iran to have