the governor of. indiana signed a new law to allow business toes turn away gay and lesbian customers saying it's part of their religious freedom. you will be able to tell which stores are supporting the new law because they will have these helpful little signs. the head of the house committee investigating the benghazi attacks said friday that hillary clinton wiped her personal e-mail server clean permanently deleting all her e-mails. so at least one clinton has learned how to wipe something

clean. >> a new justice department report claims that the american dea agents in colombia participated in sex parties with prostitutes hired by drug cartels. in response to this incredibly irresponsible behavior the agents have been promoted to secreter is service. >> welcome to "morning joe" on a happy monday with us onset, in washington, d.c. we've got washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein, former white house press secretary for president obama, robert gibbs, and politico michael crowley. you were getting on to me katty, haerlly this lyearly this morning. it makes me sad. >> no one ever gives you a hard time. mika is not here so somebody has to do it. >> somebody has to. about this deal with iran. you said for some time you don't think it's going to come through. i think the president is

desperate to make it happen. >> i think there's still a chance. >> yeah. >> i think there's still a chance we get to that deadline and the iranians back out or they put on restrictions that are too tough. and if it's not a deal that the president can feel good about, they can walk away from this. >> i think the president, robert gibbs, is desperate for a deal. i think presidents get to this phase in their presidency time of the white house and they will do just about anything to get a deal. right now, though iranians seem to be pushing us as far as they can push us. >> well, i think we expected that each side is going to push at the very end as hard as they can. i do not think the overriding factor here is to say you've gotten a deal. i think the overriding factor is to get something that the administration and the government believes sets the time back for the development of a weapon by a year. and if it doesn't meet that standard it's not worth doing. >> okay. now, before we go to the news let's dig a little bit deeper

down into this issue, very technical issue. did you think there was any possibility whatsoever that the university of kentucky wildcats would come back after trailing the entire game? >> this is worse than the iranian nuclear weapon. >> and win, huh? can you believe it? that kentucky/notre dame game was incredible. >> it was -- a little heartbreaking if you're a notre dame fan to have been that -- to be ahead and to be that close for so long. >> and wisconsin/michigan state, both seem to be teams of destiny. >> i don't know about that. i feel like this one's going to duke/uk. >> it would be good. >> two evil empires. it's like which one do you want? isis or al qaeda? >> wow. >> that's awful. >> is it too soon? >> that's tough. >> a little early for that. >> both of my parents went to university of kentucky and are wildcats through and through. >> i know. >> my father cheering for the wildcats from heaven but you compare them to isis and al qaeda. >> well, one step above, i

guess. >> not much. >> i'm obviously not emotion mahli ready for that national championship. >> has your mother gotten over your debut from "meet the press"? >> she was very happy with how i did. >> still attacking me. she comes to christmas parties and says -- >> she did not attack you. >> vashsicious. iran backs away from the key element of the deal and right now the state department is pushing back on "the new york times" story. a lot going on katty. >> with a tuesday night negotiating deadline looming "the new york times" is reporting that iranian officials are nowing baing away from what western nations involved in the talks view as a crucial demand. and that's iran ship nuclear fuel out of the country. for months iran has reportedly agreed to send much of its stockpile of uranium to russia but on sunday the country's deposition si foreign minister told reporters, quote, there is no question of sending the stocks abroad. this morning a senior state

department official is pushing back against that "new york times" report saying that viable options have been under discussion for months and that iran has previously denied they would export enriched uranium as part of a deal. meanwhile, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell on a trip tole to israel making it clear that the republican-led congress grease with netanyahu's criticism of the deal being negotiated in switzerland. >> talks continue as usual in luzon. the deal that everything that we hear pays iran's deal to the. >> the group that is here agrees. the option, if there's an agreement, is a bill we intend to vote on that enjoys bipartisan support to require that agreement to come to congress for approval. if there's no deal then the view of this group, similar to your own, is that registering up

sanctions might be the best direction to take in the wake of a deal that does not come together. >> let's go to switzerland right now where nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell is with us. andrea let's play game here. we're doing to start around the set of "morning joe." why is joe wrong? i think the president is desperate for a deal and will take whatever he can get. but it's not looking that way this morning. is it possible that both sides at the end of the day walk away from table with nothing? >> reporter: it is very possible that they walk away perhaps not with nothing because there are some agreements that won't hold up but can be the baseline for a future negotiation. but this thing is fragile. and "the new york times" reporting today is just another case of that. just to put the context in i know you joe, are familiar with this as former member of congress and someone very familiar with u.s. intelligence

katty has covered these types of negotiations, you know what happens. they agree on something but nothing is firm unless everything is together and it is a very complicated puzzle. they repeatedly tell us that nothing is final until everything is agreed to. that said "the new york times" is absolutely correct that all along they have said that they would export their enriched uranium. there are other ways as the state department says to get at this problem but it is such a complicated thing that to achieve the one-year breakout which means there would be at least one year before iran could create a nuclear weapon that the inspectors would be able to have that kind of warning with verification, that there would be one year's head start or alert to the international community. and this is something that, as you know israel and critics have long said is not possible but what officials here tell us is they've carefully constructed this, partly by reducing the stockpile down to a point where it is not dangerous, it can't be used to make a bomb. this is partly exporting it to

another country, russia has been said it would be willing to take it. all of this is part of the deal. and if one part of that puzzle is out, then the thing can fall apart. so, what they're saying is that they knew this all along and they had other ways to get at this. you're going to hear pushback. i think you're going to talk to maria in a bit. this is a problem. as i talked to other nuclear expert experts, they confirm with "the new york times" is reporting, it is a problem if that stockpile is not being reduced. it the be diluted. it can be solidified into oxide so that it can't be turned into a weapon. but those are tougher and it's going to make it that much harder to sell this deal. one other quick point. the foreign minister of russia sergei lavrov who is never an easy customer was not only late arriving last night, he was late for today's meeting. today's meeting was the first big meeting of everybody in iran since last november. and lav love is now leaving, we have confirmed. the a.p. broke this this

morning. he's going someplace else and leaving his deputy and he will come back tomorrow if there is a deal. >> busy man. >> you see how things are going. >> i'm sure there's more pressing things for him. >> he's got things to do. >> he does. nbc's andrea mitchell thank you so much. before we go to the next story, michael crowley, why am i wrong? >> that the president wants a deal? >> that the president is so desperate for a deal at the end of the day he's going to give iranians everything they want. >> here's why i think you're wrong. because a deal so bad that he can't defend it in congress and therefore he gets a deal and it's immediately shot down by congress, that's worse than no deal or a very weak deal. if he gets a deal the congress is going to come stampeding toward it. i'm sure they're making a calculation in the white house, where is the tipping point, how can we hold together enough democrats to prevent a veto from being overridden. at some point they say we can't and it's going to go down in

flames and we're better off in front of that. the speaker shouldn't bring a vote to the floor unless he knows he's going to win. they're not going to have that fight unless they're confident to told off the democrats. >> doesn't other things in the region complicate it? in yemen, for instance if we're going to turn around and gave sanctions relief to iran in any form of a deal congress can easily say we're funneling essentially money to the yemeni opposition here and fighting both sides of the coin. there are other moving parts here that complicate the deal. >> wait a minute. the timing is incredibly bad. >> the whole context is harder than it was before. >> it's hard to imagine, katty, a worse time where you have actually the sunni world, afraid, even in iraq moderates, the pentagon mik reported this last week. the pentagon is discouraged there are no moderate sunnis in iraq that are going to step out. the reason they're not going to step out there is going to be no sunni awakening like before because you have iran inside the country. and they don't see isis as a big

as an enemy as the iranians. now, of course you have egypt and saudi arabia now concerned about what's happening in yemen. the timing for this deal for america bending over backwards to do a deal with iran for that region, is so destabilizing. americans, most americans don't really dig into the difference between sunnis and shiites. but this is a massive deal. we are going to alienate the entire middle east who is far more fearful of iran than even we. >> it's staggering how fast this sunni/shia split has widened over the last couple of months. really since last summer since isis went into iraq. you look at the arc from iran through iraq syria, into lebanon of an increaseing shia majority and shia influence. and of course every sunni dominated state in the gulf is looking at that with alarm. the only thing i would say about iran's involvement in those areas is perhaps it puts some

economic pressure on iran to do a deal. they are spending a lot of money on their client states at the moment. and that might make them think we have to stick at this and get the sanctions relief. we're paying in iraq syria, lebanon, yemen now. >> more news broke this weekend of the plane crash. just such a grim story. >> you think this story can't get any worse. >> i always does. it got on a plane this past weekend and everybody is looking at each other. uh-huh. wireless okay? and i had a rotlot of people say the same thing. one pilot got on the intercom before it took up hey. and by the way, we're both married, happily, and we're going to see our kids later this afternoon. you know? >> i don't even want to hear that. i don't need the reassurance. just fly the pane. >> just fly the plane. >> the details are graham. the investigation into and

degree andreas lubitz accused of deliberately crashing that passenger jet that had 150 people onboard, new detailed account of what happened on flight 9525 before it crashed into the french alps. nbc news correspondent katie is joining us live. katie, what more do we know about his background in particular because that seems pretty troubling. >> the background medical issues are trickling out in the newspapers here. and there's stuff that hasn't been confirmed by investigators because they're still trying to straighten it all out. as you were saying, yeah, this story does just keep getting worse. as you know it's the forth major plane incident in just over a year. they're still looking for the flight data recorder from this crash. but now there's a chilling report, the black box, cockpit voice recorder that purports to describe horrifyingly the final minutes inside that plane. the german tabloid "bild" reported a timeline of the

flight's looseast minutes. the flight started normally with the captain apologizing for a delay. during the ascent he mentioned the copilot andreas lubitz he didn't get a chance to use the rest room. lubitz tells the captain he can take over at any time. the captain asked lubitz to prepare for landing at dusseldorf. a few minutes later, lubitz said you can go now. the captain leaves. shortly after he was gone lubitz can be heard pushing his chair back. the door clicks shut. the plane begins to descend. air traffic control calls. no answer. the captain begins banging on the door yelling for god's sake open the door. passengers scream in the background. alarm bells sound and the captain says, open the damn door. nbc news has not confirmed this account and authorities will neither confirm nor deny it. still, as the search continues, lubitz' motive remains a mystery. was it a personal crisis? depression? or another medical issue?

lubitz had seen doctors for problems with his vision according to multiple reports, although it's unclear how severe. but as investigators try to sort it all out, this grieving father says it hardly matters. >> if there was a motive or a reason, we do not want to hear it. it's not relevant. what is relevant is that it should never happen again. my son and everyone on that plane should not be forgotten, ever. >> reporter: now investigators have confirmed they have dna for about half of the victims. they're going to match that up with dna they've been able to gather from the families, but still a ways to go before they're going to be able to bury their dead. sorry about this umbrella it literally started to hail in the last 30 seconds. back to you. >> very good. nbc's katy tur, greatly appreciate it. we have more to talk about a couple of "60 minutes" story, sam, you were watching "60 minutes" with the grown-ups.

never stops. not even on monday morning. the assad interview i thought was absolutely fascinating. >> yeah. first of all, it was a great get obviously. the conditions were curious but had to do on syrian tv so it made it very odd. clear that assad is in a state of total denial about everything. >> assad is not going. >> he's not going. >> you look at assad and look at isis and you think, you know what? my thought was this guy is going to be around for a very lngong time. >> the weird political games he was playing with charlie rose i have the ledge nategitimate support all the people. charlie says how do you know that? i have my finger on the pulse of the people. no, you don't. you're not like going up for elections or anything. >> he does seem -- he gave an interview to the bbc, too, and the thing i took away from it is how confident he is. unbelievably confident. >> he may not have the support of syrian people. he increasingly has the support of washington. john brennen a couple weeks ago said the collapse of the assad government would be a disaster. you would have extremist running

syria. we are looking for a solution. >> there is no doubt. suddenly people like assad, you know, are not -- >> it's all real politics right now. >> real politics if. we'll talk about that and much more. still ahead on "morning joe," chris matthews will be onset. and state department's mar rye harf and life from switzerland. she's going to be from switzerland. and "washington post" bob woodward will be right here. and we're going to go live to tehran as the nuclear talks head to final stretch. how to everyday iranians few the potential deal and their own leadership. plus, hillary clinton's campaign team is looking to correct big mistakes from 2008. among them keeping bill in place. lots of luck. here's bill karins. bill, how long is it going to be winter? come on. >> march is just a throw away huh, joe in now we're stepping into april. the good news there is a pattern change coming. for everyone in the north east thankfully, finally, looks like we're on a warm-up towards the

end of the weekend. this morning as we start to wrap up march, snow wups again out there. we've even seen snowflakes in washington, d.c. this blows off the coast early during the day today. further to the south, thunderstorms overnight. tupelo and huntsville. if you're in birmingham alabama, try to stay inside for at least the next 20 minutes. let these thunderstorms roll through. a lot of lightning strikes. as we go through the morning they're going to slide through atlanta here shortly. 6:00 a.m. this is where we are now. 7:00 a.m. it's right over the top of atlanta. then it will be exiting. slow drive in and around atlanta. charlotte and columbia and augusta, looks like the showers and storms rolling through, 8:00 and 9:00 a.m. then they die off. the rest of the south is good. it's a rather quiet weather day out there. it's still raw and cold in new england as we go throughout the next two days. 45 in boston. look at the rest of the country. beautiful today. minneapolis near 60. chicago, oklahoma city tomorrow we do it again. very warm in the mid of the country. finally as we go into april, the

middle of the nation is going to share their warmth with the northeast. about time, right? we leave you with a nice shot of washington, d.c. where luke russert said he saw snowflakes this morning. hopefully the last until next winter. "ride away" (by roy orbison begins to play) ♪ i ride the highway... ♪ ♪ i'm going my way... ♪ ♪i leave a story untold... ♪ he just keeps sending more pictures... if you're a free-range chicken you roam free. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. it's what you do. ♪ two wheels a turnin'... ♪ you're giving away pie? what would you like, apple or cherry? cherry. oil or cream? definitely cream. [reddi wip spray sound] never made with hydrogenated oil, oh, yeah... always made with real cream. the sound of reddi wip is the sound of joy.

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e plane and thought... yeah! empty seat next to me. and then i saw him slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking. i was downloading a movie. i was trying to download a movie. i have verizon. i don't. i get that little spinning wheel. download didn't finish. i finished the download. headphones on. and i'm safe. i didn't finish in time. so. many. stories.

vo: join us and save without settling. verizon. good morning. it's time to take a look at the morning papers. we begin with the "new york daily news." two bodies recovered from that site of thursday's building explosion in new york city. among the dead nicholas figueroa. he was on the date at the sushi park restaurant. family says he died while paying the tab. supportedly survived. 26 yaermd restaurant worker is dlooefd to be the other victim but we're still waiting on positive id. from the "washington post," former chief executive carly fiorina told fox news sunday her

chances of running for the republican presidential nomination are higher than 90%. i think that sounds like she's running. she also went after democratic front-runner hillary clinton saying the e-mail scandal, quote, suggest her character is flawed. fiorina's official announcement will come in late april, early may. >> you never know who is going to catch on and who is not. one of the biggest surprises is coming out of cpac is how well her speech is received and how people are starting to talk positively about a woman that very few gave any chance of making any waves. >> she had a very bad image and reputation a few years ago. >> she did. >> just not being somebody who was likable on the campaign, interesting on the campaign trail. >> sam, you were there. a big surprise conservatives starting to like it. >> they loved it but it was predominantly because she was viscously attacking hillary clinton and that's what they wanted to hear. if she can parlay that into something useful on the campaign trail i wouldn't discount her

getting a little bit of support there. >> yeah. i think it is possible. anything is possible. this from the associated press. just months before the edward snowden leaks there was a proposal circulating within the national security agency to kill secret phone surveillance program because some believed it wasn't worth the trouble. that proposal reportedly had been circulateing among top managers but it had not reached the desk of then nsa director general keith alexander. two former nsa officials tell the a.p. they doubt alexander would have approved it. this from "the washington post" as well. study published in the journal of marriage and family you is jest the amount of time a parent spends with their child has virtually no affect on how they turn out. >> dear lord. now they tell me 27 years later! i could have gone to the dog track. of course it makes a difference. >> you went to the dog track anyway joe. >> i could have taken my child to the dog track. >> no. of course, it's one of those confusing reports because you can read it pretty much anyway you want.

researchers say it suggests it's more about quality of time than quantity according to the study. >> again, the dog track. >> dog track. >> you should have gone to the horse racing is what that means. >> there are instances when. parent/child time can be harmful and that's when a parent particularly mothers, are stressed, sleep deprived had been on "morning joe" too early in the morning, are gullity or anxious. >> whose study is that? >> there's always been a debate about quality time versus quantity of time. >> this is just the latest. >> they're just saying quality time matters the most. let me just say that study, people, that's pure garbage. it's quality and quantity of time. you can't parachute in go daddy's here. you've got to be there. all of us look bad. >> be there on a regular basis, i think. you can't jet off to the other side of the world and come back after six months and say i'm going to spend a week with you on the beach. it's making lunch boxes. >> we all look back -- hopefully

all of us had fairly happy lives with our parents. but you know i don't have any extraordinary moment in time where my dad grabbed me and said son, i'm still proud of you. no, i just remember my dad always there, always there at the baseball games always there, we always sat around the dinner table. that's one of the things as i've gotten older, we just don't eat out. like we eat around the dinner table. and, you know quality of time is great but quantity seems to matter so much too. >> yeah. i think that point about how if you're stressed out and anxious as a parent you're probably not doing your child much good by being around. >> yeah. >> what if you're always stressed. >> try not to be sam. >> it's for parents. >> that's the key. try to focus yourself. and don't say sterilization. you obviously don't have any kids. sterilization. sounds like assad. speaking of which, syrian

president bashar assad is speaking out about his country's relationship with the united states. charlie rose had -- last night was a great "60 minutes" and also talked about how polio is being used to kill cancer cells. i talked a couple weeks ago about how pen is mutateing the hiv virus to kill other forms of cancer and this treatment, it's per forring miracles. >> amazing segment. >> it's remarkable. but here's assad on "60 minutes" responding from recent comments from secretary of state john kerry about a potential willingness to negotiate. >> we always want to have good relation with united states. we never thought, great power. nobody -- not wise person think of having bad relation with the united states. >> can you have good relationship with a country that thinks you shouldn't be in power? >> no that's not going to be part of the dialogue i said earlier. this is not bess. we have syrian citizen who can decide this. no one else.

whether they want to talk about it or not. it's not something we're going to discuss with anyone. >> this cannot end militarily. do you agree with that? >> definitely. every conflict, even if it's a war, should end with the political solution. >> sam, what i was struck by you saw it. >> yeah. >> live last night as well. you can tell the people who were passed out on the couch after the final four games and, there's assad. but what i you saw that he was interviewing assad, i sat up. great interview. charlie rose went right there on chemical weapons. he went right there on everything. the longer that interview went through the more i thought, washington is going to want to make a deal with this guy because you stack assad up next to isis and the chaos going on in that country. and suddenly suddenly assad looks like a pretty good deal. >> listen he was a little bit delusional but he might be the most ration at abouter in this

country at this point in time. michael is saying, which is do we triage the situation and do we actually, you know, drop our insistence the regime change happen and start working with him. i don't know if we're there yet. john kerry sort of hinted at something like that and it was quickly backtracked last week. assad seems to say he's not going anywhere. >> i reported in a story last week there's link willage that officials in this administration are concerned if we ramp up such port for the syrian rebels fighting assad that iran which defends assad, might try to go after our guys in iraq. this is all tangled up. there are a bunch of reasons why we might be laying off assad a little bit including the fact we're deciding that he's not as bad as isis and al qaeda and everybody else that could be running the country. >> katty kay, if you top to 100 top policy leaders in washington, d.c. and say if you can turn back the clock, do you wish we hadn't said saddam must go, assad must go gadhafi must

go? suddenly middle east with saddam hussein holding down the chaos in iraq assad holding down the chaos in syria, and gadhafi holding down the chaos in libya. again, three of our biggest enemies but suddenly that looks like a bargain. >> right. you know we were talking aeshl yesh earlier about the sunni/shia chaos and it started in iraq. we took the lid off the caldron. >> the original sin. coming up rare gifts and rash impulses. how bill clinton can be a big asset or a huge liability to his wife's campaign. ♪ the new, twenty-fifteen ford focus believes in "more." more to see. more to feel. ♪ more to make things really really...

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m. with us now from lausanne, switzerland, marie harf. thanks for being with us. let's start with the news that many people waking up in the united states are going to be reading about, the lead story in "the new york times" talking about how iran's backing away from a key provision in the deal that they agreed to for months. what does s. the state department's response to that story? >> well, unfortunately the the details in that story are not accurate. obviously stockpile and what

happens to it and how iran gets rid of it is a key part of this possible agreement we're trying to get to. the notion that we had some agreement, that in the last 24 hours iran has backed away from just is factually inaccurate. there's never been an agreement on that. we've been talking with them about a couple different ways they could do it. and we'll see if we can get to agreement in next 24 hours or so. >> you're saying david singer and michael gordon got what part of the story wrong, that there ever was an agreement? >> well, as we've always said joe, that all of the details of this agreement are interrelated to each other. what we have also said is that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. so on that specific issue of whether their stockpile will be shipped out to another country or will be diluted in country, we in iran have not come to agreement on that. even tentatively. so the notion that in the last 24 hours there was some breakdown in that agreement on that issue just isn't accurate. >> you say obviously and we obviously understand how it works and andrea mitchell was on

earlier talking about this as well. was it ever assumed by the state department, was it ever assumed by u.s. negotiators, that the iranians had accepted this as one of the -- one of the parts of the deals that they would agree to if everything else fell in line? >> reporter: no, joe, that wasn't assumed. there are a couple different ways iran can get rid of that stack pile. and this is the key part of pushing their year to a year breakout time. one way they can do that is ship that overseas and another way they can do it is diluting it inside the country as they've been doing under the joint plan of action. so we've been talking to the iranians about what. different version of that might look like and how that might play out but we don't assume anything in the negotiations until we have agreement. i think people probably agree that's the right thing to do here. >> marie, it's katty kay here. so let's flip this a little bit. if iran refuses right up until tomorrow at midnight to agree to export any significant part of

its rururanium stockpiles do you think there can still be a deal? >> absolutely. look, what's important here katty, when it comes to this stockpile, is that we're able to get rid of it because that's part of this bigger equation that leads us to a year breakout time. part of the equation is century centrifuge numbers, part is what kinds of things they're still allowed to do it when it comes to research and development. yes, there is a formula using a variety of different ways that we can get to our goal here. we don't know if we will. we don't know if we'll be able to do that in the next 24 hours but we definitely still can, absolutely. >> marie hi it's michael crowley. >> hi, michael. >> i have a question. hi marie. >> you don't have to wait for her to answer back. >> you owe me a couple of e-mails. >> you know what just answer the question. >> see how polite i am joe? that's how i get my answers. >> we're going to escort you off the set. go. >> what conclusion should people draw if this can't get done by the deadline of tuesday night,

because isn't the practical deadline really mid april when congress comes back into session and gets ready to vote on legislation that you guys think will blow up the talks? >> well, i do think that the president has been very clear as said secretary kerry, the end of march is a real deadline and the choices the iranians don't have to make don't get any easier the longer they wait. we have been very clear we're not going to take a bad deal and we don't know if we will get there in the next 24 hours. we believe congress should not act while we negotiate. we should let the negotiator s do their job. if the iranians don't make the decisions they need to we can't get to an agreement here. that's what we're trying to see can map in the next day or so. >> marie, do you suggest there's not an option of extending these talks if you don't come to an agreement soon? >> well, joe, i think if we can't get to an understanding by the end of march 31st, which we've said is a real deadline,

we have to look at where we are. and we have to look at what the path forward looks like when it comes to these talks. you know we've been negotiating since september of 2013 to see if we can get this done. and i really don't think that the longer we wait the decisions get any easier. so we really need to see from the iranian it is they're willing to get to yes here. we've put on the table proposals and ideas that meet our bottom lines that should be acceptable to them if as they say, they only want a peaceful nuclear program. we don't know if they can get to yes here though. >> if you believe they can get to yes there is a possibility these talks do extend out past march 31st? >> well, i just honestly don't think we know what will happen here. what we're focused on here on the ground in switzerland is the next 24 hours. they're very crucial. we're really seeing what we can get done if we can get to an agreement. all the other ministers from the other p51 countries are here. we will look at what comes next.

we know the diplomacy is the best way to handle this most durable, things that i think people are good. but we have of other options and we will see where we are. >> all right. marie harf thank you for stopping by and talking to us. say hello to the russian foreign minister when he comes back from his matinee. with us now live from iran nbc news of tehran bureau chief, ollie. what is the latest reaction out of iran about this deal? >> well, the latest reaction from iran is that iran generally been behind the talks because the supreme leader has publicly thrown his weight behind them and generally quite optimistic today have been a little less optimistic. they say that the americans and shifting the table, shifting the parameters of what a deal should be in order to lay the blame on iraq. the iranians have consistently said this that the americans are trying to shift the table to lay

the blame on us and it's funny, hearing mary harf say the ball is in the iranian's court because that's exactly the rhetoric coming out of iran here. i think both sides are setting themselves up for a fall to blame the other side if this wasn't going to work. there's no doubt that the iranians want this deal to go through. they've invested a lot of political will in this. but it's not going to be so bad for them if it falls through because they are in a somewhat of a position to say, look it was the other person's fault. we made the biggest efforts we could. as for the stockpiles of enriched uranium, it's going to complicate matters. no doubt about that. it may not complicate matters around the negotiating table in lieu zahnlausanne but it's going to complicate things with other party, saudis israelis egyptians are all going to take them on and say, listen you're just giving iranians too much of a nuclear program here and i think the problems even if a deal is signed are going to carry on. joe? >> all right ali, thank you so

much. greatly appreciate your reporting. he's right. the better deal barack obama and john kerry and the other countries give the iranians the worst relations we're going to have moving forward, katty, with egypt, with saudi arabia with the uae, jordan countries that already believe we've abandoned them, that we're not there we're not leading with the type of leadership we should provide. i don't know. we've talked about congress and their reaction. i mean, the majority of the middle east, majority of the arab countries are going to rebel against any agreement that gives the iranians too much. >> right. you know, mike was saying earlier this was all linked. we were talking about president assad of syria, one reason for the americans to tackle assad in syria is because all of those allies in the region are very nervous about him. they don't like iran's influence in syria. especially if there's a nuclear deal, listen, you guy, you've give sent iran too much.

>> we'll continue this discussion later. you're right, though connect the dots from tehran to damascus damascus, down to yemen across the middle east, lebanon, a growing concern obviously from the majority of the middle east. still ahead this morning, harbaugh's chris matthews will be here and bob woodward will join the table. introducing the new can-am spyder f3. with a cruising riding position and the most advanced vehicle stability system in the industry... ...you'll ride with a feeling of complete freedom and confidence. visit your can-am dealer and test drive the spyder f3 today. ♪ ♪ ♪ (under loud music) this is the place. ♪ ♪ ♪ their beard salve is made from ♪ ♪ ♪ sustainable tea tree oil and kale... you, my friend, recognize when a trend has reached critical mass. yes, when others focus on one thing you see what's coming next. you see opportunity. that's what a type e does.

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correspondent luke russert and patrick healey. patrick co-wrote a piece on how hillary clinton's presidential team is trying to use hillary's husband should she run for president again. but use him carefully. it's very important. we all remember what happened in south carolina.

i remember watching in horror when she was going to lose in new hampshire and he was going out apologizing, i think was up at dartmouth, he said i can't make her taller i can't make her better looking, i can't make her a better speaker. you just sat there orhorrified that this guy had no more self control on the campaign trail than he did. it's one thing when it's your campaign trail but it's quite another when you impact someone else's. they've got to be worried about all of that and much much more. >> you're right, joe. if you were horrified you can imagine what clinton headquarters was like back in virm virginia and manchester. part of story in 2007 and 2008 was that bill clinton was operating over here hillary clinton was operating over here. bill clinton is never more frustrated, never goes off message more than when his wife is under attack than when

things get personal. and things got really personal at the end in iowa and then through new hampshire and through south carolina. so he's an x factor. i think what they're trying to figure out is how to use the best of him while creating you know conditions creating a situation where him going off messages is limited at best. >> patrick would you say that south carolina was probably the low point in 2008 for bill clinton's performance when he seemed to reduce barack obama's victory to little more than a black man winning in south carolina? >> absolutely. i mean he would frame, you know, what he said differently certainly but there's no question the affects that it had for his reputation for the ability for what the clinton -- what the clinton campaign saw as bill clinton being an incredible asset for hillary clinton being totally thrown off. you know, they were shocked by it. the bill clinton who was seen as the nation's first african-american president could

go down to south carolina and, you know sort of muck it up as much as it happened. 2016 really hoping, gn again, he's going to focus on reaching out to black voter, reaching out to hispanic voters and let her do the retail politics. the question is can he stay on message, what does he need to stay on message? >> let me just say, bill clinton seen as america's first african-american president by bill clinton. luke russert? >> patrick healy, luke here. t question for you. it seems to me that unlike any other presidential campaign in this case the spouse will certainly have as large a microphone as the actual candidate. are they planning on running parallel campaigns here? and if so is there any change specifically for bill clinton from the team that was around him in '08 which many people thought enabled him too much and played right into the strategy that mr. gibbs to my right set for them all those traps? >> luke very much so. it's a whole new team that's going to be around bill clinton. they're looking at a small

traveling staff with him, not some sort of huge, you know going to attract its own media attention. mostly about having sort of a senior level traveling aide not just a body man to carry, you know, his luggage, but a senior aide who is going to be back stanlg with him right before he goes on at events who is going to be prepping him, focusing him on her message. you know as much as possible. look, this is a guy, bill clinton, some of his brilliance comes out from the improvization. they don't want to put him in a box that you know is never going to work. but they really are looking at having a much different operation than in 2008. >> robert gibbs? >> i will just say, patrick, robert gibbs, how do you not just -- because as you just said, the brilliance of bill clinton is his ability to get people to see things that might not be so obvious. so it's more than just having somebody standing backstage that says don't go off script. it really is a strategy for how you use all of his immense

political talents. isn't that the case? >> absolutely. and a lot of that is behind the scenes involving him more in the strategy in messaging, in looking at the polling. look, a lot of his frustration, robert as you remember in 2008, was the fact that people involved in hillary's campaign were very used to keeping him at a distance for protecting hillary clinton from bill clinton a lot of the times. this time i think there's a hope that if you sent the size if you bring him into the operation much more in a dieynamic way he will be happier, he will feel like he's part of this message and he will be of service to her in a greater way. >> all right. patrick, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. >> i will say this. >> that's great, patrick. >> i think there's two really important people here right? john and robbie both of whom -- i know john does and we read that robbie does as well, has a great relationship with bill

clinton and. incluesed him in these discussions. this is not having somebody backstage and wags his finger and coulds him when he's off message. it's somebody that puts him and i'm parts him into this strategy. he's the best political communicator we've seen in a really long time. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. luke, stay with us. coming up, with the deadline looming, dr. brzezinski will be there for the latest on the iranian nuclear talks. you're watching "morning joe." 20? purina one true instinct has 30. active dogs crave nutrient-dense food. so we made purina one true instinct. learn more at purinaone.com many wrinkle creams come with high hopes, but hope... doesn't work on wrinkles. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair has the fastest retinol formula... to work on fine lines and even deep wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®. don't just visit orlando

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coming up at the top of the hour we have chris matthews and bob woodward. they're both joining the table. we're going to ask both of them where the president is too desperate for a deal with iran or whether he's going to guarantee peace for the next generation. also, we're going to take you inside the cockpit for the final moments of that ill fated flight that we've been talking at so much. taxi. vo: after years of being treated like she was invisible it occurred to mindy she might actually be invisible. ♪♪ but mindy was actually not invisible. ooh, what are you doing? can you see me? she had just always been treated that way. yeah. you don't have to look at me like that. there are worst things than an attractive woman touching your body. i'll go. join the nation that sees you as a priority. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ there's nothing more romantic than a spontaneous moment. so why pause to take a pill?

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oh, my god, it's happening! >> what's happening? >> what's happening is you made barack obama very angry. and when you make him angry he turns into the rockobama. anyway i just wanted to remind you about dinner barack. gentlemen, good luck. >> now, uh don't be alarmed. the rock obama, much like barack obama, only larger and more violent. now, where were we? you, orange man. >> me? >> you invite netanyahu without asking?

>> i did. >> you like israel? >> yes. >> maybe you should go visit israel. >> oh, boy. that was a good saturday night live. we were talking about a really good "60 minutes" last night good "snl." winning associate editor of "washington post," bood",," boot wad bob woodward and the host of "hard ball" chris matthews. >> i watched you "way too early" this morning atting a 5:who. >> we've been talking about new developments out of iran. and out of geneva with the negotiations. we'll start with you, chris. i want to play a new game which is why is joe wrong? i think it's a game everybody is going to love to play.

i think -- >> how about a new game? >> well, no this is -- you get to voice the game on air on joe's show. why am i wrong? i think this president, like a lot of presidents in their seventh and eighth year are so desperate for the big deal that sometimes, you know, reagan finally went from cold warrior to getting one nuke deal after another in the seventh and deal. >> but i fear and i think a lot of conservatives and some democrats fear that this president is so desperate for a deal he will even take a bad deal from the iranians. >> couple of reasons. first of all you don't have to trust him on this because one thing about obama that his worst critics would say about him is he is a cool cool person amount. he's thinking about the next 30 years. he expects to live 30 years. it's all about legacy. the last thing he would want is something that didn't pass the test of time. it will be tested by time, this deal. it will work or don't work. secondly, this is more near term. chuck schumer in the democratic party and feinstein and franken, people from big areas with people care a lot about israel

a lot about, they have people over there people connections. and they're not going to go along with a deal that jeopardizes israel. just like republicans, eighth didn't support the 37-person letter democrats will speak out loudly if they see weakness in this deal and it will fail. i believe even a good deal could fail. this is fragile. i don't see how he can pass in the near term or long term test with something that isn't strong. that's what i believe. >> bob woodward do you believe that the obama administration if not understands, we'll assume that they completely understand they're brilliant, i'm sure but that they comprehend just how dangerous a deal with iran might be given the complexities of the sunni/shia outbreak given the fact that most arabs are looking at what's happening in tehran damascus beirut what's happening now in yemen, and are saying if we have to go to war, if we have to have a civil war,

sectarian war in the middle east, we'll do it to stop the further spread of sunni dominance? -- shia dominance, i'm sorry. >> the middle east is a powder keg. if you look at it there are so many issues out there and just for instance the saudis have launched the military strikes into yemen, and i think the name of the operation is operation resolve or something like that or storm of resolve that sounds like something george w. bush phoned in from his ranch. >> it's the saudis, it's also the egyptians. you now have the president of egypt talking about a unified arab force. things we haven't seen. >> and you've got lebanon is still a mess. syria is a mess. i mean, it is a list. and now the former dia director was on television yesterday saying that the obama -- obama is willfully ignorant. i mean i think that's -- anyone

who knows obama, i don't think he's ever willfully ignorant. i think you can certainly disagree with the policies. but the question is is there a strategy -- and you know we throw that word around strategy and it really means planning a year or two out, not just doing stuff. >> and -- >> there's no planning going on here for the whole region. >> unfortunately, katty, it seems very reactive. you have -- i wrote a column for politico this morning where we've had two failed presidents i believe, as commanders in ef choos because you had one reacting to 9/11 overreacting. and then you had his successor, overreacting to his extremes to the bush/cheney extremes. this was opening paragraph. if anyone disagrees, this follows up with bob was saying

middle east and turmoil. iran is racing through iraq. anarchy reins in libya. turkey is slipping away. america's relationship with the middle east and democracy has hit an all-time low. that's a pretty grim report card. >> can you point at the moment to a country in the middle east where things are stable and look like they're moving in america's national interests? >> well -- >> it's not very easy. >> april, i've got another question. can you name other than iran and cuba any countries across the world that consider themselves having a better relationship with america today than they did when barack obama became president? >> that's kind of tough. that's a tough one. i will say this, and i have to really ponder that because, you're right so many things happening in the middle east and just happening around the world and our relationship has been strained. but with many countries, but at the same time we still have

allies around the world. i want to go back to something that chris said about iran and about the legacy piece. i think all of this middle east issue right now will be legacy but at the same time you have to remember, whether we're dealing with iran we were dealing with sanctions and sanctions were working. i believe this president thought this could have been the time and world community came together. i'm not going to say it's just about the united states. i think the world community felt this could have been the time so we could actually find out what was there and what is there because our intelligence is faulty when it comes to iran. and something of that -- a nation of that magnitude with the kinds of weapons that they could have could be very dangerous for the world body. >> chris, you've been following -- obviously you've been a reporter for a very long time but you've been following this. you're like me. your whole life. have you -- can you think back to a time that there was so much chaos on the globe? >> no it is terrible. i just wonder whether we're repeating a mistake in the late

'40s saying who lost china. china was going in that direction. the idea that we're doing that is a big mistake. this part of the world has been that way. >> by the way, things are shaking up in iraq along lines that they probably were shaken up before the brittic tish drew straight lines. the shia are going to where the shia want to be. the sunnis occupy sunni lands and the kurds are occupying kurdish lands. >> the conversation went to we look at the world as east/west. soviet union against us. for years, everything. the congo, everything was through that prism. i think the sunni/shiaism or thousand year war has never gone away. i do think, though that we face a real problem with it. i don't think there are great solutions to iran. but we still come down to a fundamental question. how do we contain them? some people say by basically knocking out their nuclear facilityiesyies which will give you three or four years until the next time you have to do it.

the other way to do is to it cut a deal for three or four or ten years. >> is there still a possibility to have a good working relationship with iran? >> not if we bomb them. >> no i understand that. >> that's the end. >> if we strike a deal, a tough deal can we see over the next decade a closer relationship with washington and iran? >> the alternative is echt choo ally moving toward a war with them. you know at lo of iranians in this country. amazingly -- like dare i say like europeans. very modern. very educated. very modern. very western seeming. >> i think the thing i saw, katty, that really surprised me in 2009 during the rebellion, during the revolts when you actually had people in tehran gunned down in the streets by their government was the fact i looked on the screen night after night after night after night and said oh, my god, there is a red state iran and there is a blue state iran. and in tehran in the urban areas some of the most educated gifted people in the region. >> and always have been very pro western. >> their history extraordinary.

>> yeah. and if we don't get a deal and if we take military action in any form against iran we lose. >> yes. >> that pro-western sector of the iranian society. i wanted to ask bob. you've spent a lot of time with the president. if we get to midnight in switzerland tomorrow night and there is no deal how do the white house handle it? >> they can push it down the road a couple more months if, you know -- look there are some assumptions in all of this that i think get us off the trail here. and that is that the iranians don't like sanctions because they're hurting them which is true but, as joe was saying there are politics in iran. and there are some people who love the sanctions, some of the leaders, because their friends are making money, bundles of money on the black-market. and so, you know the idea that the iranians will do anything to get the sanctions lifted is not

quite correct. so there's a back and forth here. you know you question about, you know what would obama do? i mean they postponed it once. they can postpone it again. you could argue it's in everyone's interest to do that. >> josh earnest said they were not going to postpone. he said last week they waited a year. >> and marie harf was saying this morning on the program that they take tomorrow night's deadline seriously. another two weeks until the middle of april and they've got until the end of june as well. but if -- hypothetically if there's no deal how does the president sell that the failure of the negotiations to congress? >> he's been out publicly saying some very strong things that inspections have to be intrusive. >> right. >> that's a very aggressive word. and if you're sitting in iran and there's some sort of deal, people are going to say, hey, wait a minute, are these intrusive inspections we've agreed to? so you've got --

>> it's going to be a mess. there's going to be a deal. >> poor joe is wrong. >> i still stick with the fact this president wants a deal too much. i think the iranians need a deal a lot more than they ever will admit. i just think it's -- >> whatever deal comes out it's going to be tested brutally. >> by both sides. >> and he doesn't to bomb. >> last night -- >> chris you know says, well, if you start that that's the end. and that's true. and obama just -- if there's one pillar he does not like war. >> yeah. well one man who is a little more comfortable with war is assad. he was on "60 minutes" last night responding to recent comments from secretary of state john kerry about willingness to negotiate are with syria. it was a fascinating interview that charlie rose had with him. take a look. >> we will always -- we always wanted to have good relation with the united states. we never thought in the other direction. great power.

nobody -- not wise person think of having bad relation with united states. >> can you have good relationship with a country that thinks you shouldn't be in power? >> no, that's not going to be part of the dialogue i said again. this is not business. we have syrian citizen who can decide this. no one else. whether they want to talk about it or not. it's not something we're going to discuss with anyone. >> this cannot end militarily do you agree be that? >> definitely. every conflict, even if it's a war, should end with the political solution. >> chris matthews, a decade ago you would look at saddam hussein, 15 years ago, saddam hussein, assad, gadhafi, america's biggest enemies in the middle east. so we said assad must go. saddam hussein must go. gadhafi must go. >> slow down with the "we" though. >> okay. well barack obama said gadhafi must go assad must go george

w. bush and hillary clinton said saddam hussein must go. obama said mubarak must go. i think if we could just wrap all of those tyrants and dictators in a little package, turn time back and send them back to their countries, 99 out of 100 foreign policy perts in washington, d.c. would say, that's a deal. >> that's where i've always been. >> that's real politics. >> i always thought they were jokes. they were the front line states oh jekzist states against israel which israel can handle with their left hand. they were never a threat to israel. you can't stop the clock either. like i said a few moments ago, we don't control the movement of history in the middle east. we may have held don to mubarak a bit longer. it doesn't mean the shah is going to survive. it doesn't mean we can stop history. >> now we have sisi though. >> i think the enthusiasm for the arab spring was over done. >> i think it was, too.

i will agree with that. and what we have is, we have somehow managed to get back to where we were before the soviet union fell katty, where it's real politic. i don't want to know all the things they do in their country. are they going to let the soviets put nuclear weapons there or not? now i look at assad on tv and i ask myself one simple defining question, does he want to blow up buildings in new york city and washington or not? i look at gadhafi, does he want to blow up -- of course he's gone now. we would look at saddam hussein and ask the same question. sometimes that was questionableably wanted to kill presidents. but this is how we're going to be fosted to look at leaders in the middle east from now on. >> sam stein said earlier that assad is the most rational player in the region. i don't think he's rational but he's not exporting. >> he's not exporting. >> in the end, at the moment that's the best deal we can have. the trouble with long term is it's not really a proposition for us. >> bob -- >> the whole dynamic in that ree

jo region. anything that he's doing against his people killing his people and doing things of that major, any kind of unrest there could promote terrorism here. that's the problem. you have to look at trying to focus on that region to make sure that these people are at least working together some kind of way to create some kind of stable democracy so it will not cause unrest to come here. that's the big piece. >> that's what george w. bush believed. >> i think obama believes the same thing. >> it didn't work out well for george w. bush. >> i believe obama believes the same thing. i think that's what he's practicing in a lot of instances in what we're seeing. >> i think he'ss a ambush. >> he's not as ambitious but he's talking it speaking it. >> nobody here is saying that assad is a holiday. the guy has killed 200 people of his people, one of the most brutal people out there. but again, do you want assad or do you want isis? are the syrian people worse off under assad or worse off under isis in would the iraqi people

be worse off under shiite death squads and isis or saddam hussein? i mean these are very ugly questions we have to start asking ourselves as we move forward? >> do you make deals with these people either above board or back channel deals? yeah, i think it's pretty much agreed one of the mistakes obama made is when he said assad must go. i mean put yourself in assad's place, essentially the president of the united states is promising regime annihilation. >> there. he said mubarak must go. assad must go. he said gadhafi must go. that draws a line. >> you know i was thinking about this this morning. what's the big picture here? you know, this is alarming and catastrophic. reminds me of europe right before world war i where you had the power house, germany, power

house france you know planning things, having surrogates out there doing things and then there was the assassination of the arch duke and it set this off and the fuse of instability is lit in so many countries in the middle east things that are just not working, things that are volatile, hang on to your hat. >> hang on to your hat is right. chris -- >> by the way, you asked a great question about iran's future. is it conceivable, iran is a great country. it will be a great country. part of the reason is reresent it it's a great country, no matter if it is peaceful. what can never go through revolutionary period and become a regular member of that part of the world. can it become just another great state like israel competitive state economically with oil and everything else will that ever happen? you never know. the thing that bob said if we hit them the ayatollah is in for life. they're in for another

generation. if we don't hit them we don't know what the ayatollah is up to. with the story in the headlines today is very troubling. it looks like this is a matter of pride with them now. they don't want to take out the nuclear material. that's a pride issue. it's not a question we need to combine it with other xhem chemicals and ruin it. it's do you take anything away from us. national pride. we've got to figure out how to get through this. >> i've always believed if there were one country on the globe that you could flip that would monumentally change the geopolitical stage, it would be iran. they are. they are a great country with a great history that have had a very, very rough 30 years. and broadening reach in the region. still ahead on "morning joe" we're going to take you inside that m doed germanwings flight just moments before the crash. plus, dr. brzezinski on how the united states should approach the widening chaos across the region we've been talking about the middle east. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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m. let's get the investigation so andreas lubitz the troubled co-pilot who is accused of deliberately crashing a passenger jet with 150 people onboard. a new detailed account of the final moments before that flight 9525 crashed into the french alps. nbc news correspondent katy spaiks tur is in germany. this is just getting grimmer. >> the timeline of the flight's last minutes from the cockpit voice recorder. the flight started normally with the captain apologize for a delay. during thes a scent he mentions to co-pilot andreas lubitz that he didn't get a chance to use the rest room. lubitz tells the captain he can take over at any time. the captain asked lubitz to prepare for landing at dusseldorf.

a few minutes later lubitz says you can go now. the captain leaves and shortly after he's gone, the paper says lubitz can be heard pushing his chair back. the door clicks shut. the plane begins to descend. air traffic control calls. no answer. the captain begins banging on the door yelling, for god's sake, open the door. passengers scream in the background. alarm bells sound and the captain says, open the tadamn door. nbc news has not confirmed this account. lubitz' motive remains a mystery. was it a personal crisis depression, or another medical issue? lubitz had seen doctors for problems with his vision, according to multiple reports, although it's unclear how severe. but as investigators try to sort it all out, this grieving father says it hardly matters. >> if there was a motive or a reason, we do not want to hear it. it's not relevant. what is relevant is it should

never happen again. my son and everyone on that plane should not be forgotten ever. >> that was katy tur reporting. let's go to the "new york times" which is reporting the hillary clinton election team is grappling with how to deploy former president bill clinton out on the trail. the article by patrick healy says mr. clinton's role was so mismanaged in 2008 that it caused some of the campaign's most damaging moments. in it healy writes quote, in that race the former president was at times a frustrated and unpredictable presence operating on his own, calling up some of his wife's aides to second-guess strategy and shifting the news media's attention from her to him with stray remarks, such as when he set off african-american anger by diminishing barack obama's success in south carolina. this time advisers and political associates say both clintons understand how critical it is to harness both the rare gifts and

the rash impulses of a former president on behalf of a potential one. whether this will work is a great unknown of the 2016 race. if mr. clinton veers far off script with just one stunner of a comment, the campaign could stumble. >> robert gibbs you're smirking because you were a mean mean man. you baited bill clinton time and again. and he always took the bait. >> he did often take the bait. and i think much of what patrick writes is very true. i think the real thing from that reporting and from what we saw was he really lacked confidence in the strategy that she had and the team that she had, so he would call people up and he would tell his guys, i'm going to go basically on stage and fix our strategy right here. i think the strategy now of having him inside that tent a more active participant in how that strategy unfolds and how it gets communicated makes him a potentially very important weapon on the campaign trail if

deployed correctly. >> chris matthews the president himself, president clinton himself showed lack of discipline on the campaign trail in 2008. it really hurt hillary. do you think we're going to repeat ourselves in '12? >> i don't know. i think the problem with hillary clinton's campaign in 2008 and strength of yours was iraq. what we were just talking about. barack obama got on record as the state senator opposing the war. she was on record supporting it giving the president authority to wage the war. that was the strategic situation she faced. she carried all of the big states. what drove bill clinton crazy was they carried new jersey new york pennsylvania, california nevada every state and they lost the fight for delegates because some guy named david plof figured out you would win kentucky and minnesota and get votes by winning california. they had a smarter guy and smarter campaign. and hillary didn't have the smart people around them. i'm sure it drove bill crazy. >> bob woodward, you've written quite a few books about the clintons. is past going to be prologue?

>> you never know but you could say it will be on bill clinton's tombstone, mr. offscript. he lives offscript. and it's because he's outspoken, he has abundance self confidence. the interesting thing for the campaign which didn't happen in 2008 is can he assume the role kind of of vice president, always stand in the back let hillary be the person talking, let the spotlight be on her? and he's not a natural number two. and so he's going to burst out -- >> that's the understatement of the morning. bill clinton, not a natural number two. >> and it's going to have an impact on the optics of all of this because people see clinton and they have memories positive and negative. >> and let alone asking what's going to happen when bill clinton is in the white house as

first spouse, because that's going to have to be addressed at some point in this campaign as well. people are going to -- every time he's up on the stage giving a speech people are going to think if hillary wins bill will be in the white house as well. what does that mean for the presidency? >> we shall see. and chris matthews, one other thing as we go through the latest clinton controversy crisis scandal, hour you want to put it you see hillary clinton with this state department e-mail issue, with the server and you just look at hillary compared to bill. it always seems like bill liked being backed into the corner because you knew he was faster he was quicker, he was smarter, he was stronger than all those -- >> he liked the pressure. >> he really did. he played up to that pressure. you don't get that sense at all from hillary clinton. >> i don't think she goes racing into the crowd the way he did. >> i don't think he loves the fight the way he loved the fight and loved being cornered. >> i was in tokyo doing something and he was there. he spoke after we did, a fr our panel. and he apparently was told

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nuclear fuel of the of the country. with us now to talk about that and much more the former national security adviser for president carter dr. brzezinski. dr. brzezinski we have been in despair this morning talking about chaos all across the middle east, obviously there's a region that you've dedicated much of your life to. how does a deal with iran on nuclear weapons play into the crises? >> if there is some movement on the iranian issue, the iranian nuclear issue, it will help somewhat to slow down the present eruption that's demanding so much of our attention insofar as middle east as a whole is concerned. it's not going to change things immediately, but it will make possible settling down of the problems. if there isn't, i think we're going to have a big huge mess on our hands with a lot of pressure on us to go to war against iran.

it's one of the last things we currently need but there's going to be a lot of pressure on us to go to war against iran. >> how does a deal with iran antagonize egypt, saudi arabia uae, jordan and other sunni states that are this morning more concerned about iran's growing influence across the region than anything else? >> well, they can be concerned, but you have to weigh the question what about alternative? you know there is a massive explosion in the middle east which certainly an american attack, an american-israeli attack on iran would precipitate. it's going to be much worse. >> that's not really possible with barack obama as president of the united states, is it? >> well, it's possible when netanyahu is prime minister though who can precipitate it. he is dead set to have a showdown with the iranians now. >> but you don't think that president obama would participate in that showdown do

you? >> conditions can be created in which reluctantly once has to participate. and we have said this we would, in fact, take some drastic steps. this can be initiated from the outside and then they escalate. >> bob? >> but isn't the kind of the goal of president obama to avoid another war? i mean you look at his whole time as president, not just what he said but what he's done i'm convinced he really thinks as he said in that famous nobel prize speech that war is always an expression of human folly and he wants to pull back at almost any cost. >> well, ultimately there is a great deal of truth to that isn't there? because wars are unpredictable. >> yeah. >> and if one plings splunges into it even if one is convinced it's not necessary, you're not going to be very very happy person.

and that is the fate that awaits america if we are pushed into war by circumstances which go out of control. >> but for him to engage in an unnecessary war takes us back to his famous statement he's against dumb wars and a war with iran i mean obamabombing iran, is that ever going to be seen as smart? >> i'm hardly advocating it as you can probably tell. >> cow envisioning a scenario in which israel takes military action against iran and america is implicated in that whether or not it takes part in the actual military action? >> yes, but with a lot of pressure on america to follow up because once fighting starts who knows what will happen and what circumstances will arise which will engage us. >> chris? >> that's the question we got to answer once we realize if this

deal falls through, which is likely, i think, given the headlines, plausible, do we still have a question whether we use containment or war with iran? and there are various kinds of containment. this one the president's plan is a ten-year plan. what is netanyahu's plan for containment? he says tougher sanctions. what world parties do we have -- what partners do we have in that plan? as you point out, bob, it may not work either. we still have to get back to the bargaining table and sooner or later we have to cut a deal with them, even if we use tougher sanctions to get there. various ruts toward containment. the other one is a war option. i think you may be right. i thought always bibi was ready to go to war and force that option. is there any other bibi option besides war to our policy of contain snmt. >> i don't see any. there is a chance this might work. you know this conditional word applies even if there is agreement in the next few days because agreement then has to be

implemented over a number of years. it may fail. even in that phase. but there's also a chance it will work. and this relates to something very important which is relevant here. there is political social change taking place in iran. there is a growing westernization in iran. realization by the society at large that is better off if it participates in the wider instead of global arrangements. movement away from fanaticism. that has to be nurtured. one of the benefits of an agreement is that iran then becomes a stabilizing force rather than a disruptive force in the middle east. >> dr. brzezinski we've been talking a bit about israel now, a country you know quite a bit about from obviously your time negotiating peace treaties. let's talk about another country you've been intimate with details of leadership and that is egypt. right now the egyptians are talking about and president sisi

is talking about a unified arab force to push back against the growing shiite influence iranian influence across the middle east. and you hear grumblings from leaders in egypt and egyptian diplomats that barack obama is keeping them at an arm's distance an arm's length. what type of relationship do you think we should have with cairo? should we embrace them as even if we don't like everything sisi is doing, as a force of stability in the middle east? >> we have to separate issues from issues. i think there is intervention and yemen can be helpful. they are one of several countries that potentially can be a source of stability in the middle east. egypt, obviously. with a different orientation and outward engagements, saudi arabia certainly turkey, certainly iran if there is an

agreement. there are a lot of thes connected to these possible changes. to the but to the extent that egypt becomes more involved rather than less it's good because egypt has a lot of weight. very serious reputation. and has been a viable state unlike other countries created by the french and british back right after world war i. >> so is egypt a better ally to the united states or more important to the united states with sisi leading instead of less say a morsi? >> well, you know i don't want to be pick leaders or the egyptians, but it does me that in the present circumstances the power of sisi is not he himself but the role of the army in the country, which is still very important, very respected, especially because of its performance many years ago in the collision with israel. we don't know what their religious orientation

precipitates politically but we have some experience with that. not all of it is stabilizing. >> not all of it is stabilizing. there's another understatement. we've got to go. but dr. brzezinski thank you so much. and happy birthday. >> well, thank you very much. thank you, indeed. >> all right. his 45th birthday yesterday. can you believe that? >> you underestimate. >> bob, thank you so much, as well. it's always great to have you with us. and coming up next politico says there are sips that scott walker may be willing to go nuclear against jeb. we'll explain that with our political round-table here in washington. when "morning joe" returns. whether you need a warm up before the big race... or a healthy start before the big meeting there's a choice hotel that's waiting for you. this spring, choose choice twice, get a night at no price at 1,500 hotels. book now at choicehotels.com sometimes the present looked bright. sometimes romantic. there were tears in my eyes. and tears in my eyes.

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morning that politico is report that scott walker may go nuclear. >> yeah. he's going to be much tougher on jeb bush than anyone else most especially marco rubio. we have a piece on politico right now looking at the one race that scott walker lost. he famously won. 11 races as a republican in the swing state of wisconsin but the one that he lost in '06, you remember this, he was going for governor against congressman mark green, the other mark and he started late and green locked up the establishment and as milwaukee county executive got no traction. what did he learn? two things. one is you have to go big. we see scott walker hiring up staff. his competitors think more staff than he needs trying to push himself into the top tier. second you don't take anything for granted. so very tough. we know that the walker super pac is going to go nuclear against jeb bush whereas marco, it could be much more cautious. >> steve schmidt, is that a mistake on walker's part?

>> look scott walker's problem right now isn't that he hasn't been tough enough on jeb bush it's that he hasn't understood so far that there's no such thing as a bad question in a presidential race. there's only bad answers. he's given a lot of bad answers. he hasn't shown that he's prepared for presidential run. so when you look at this race right now we always cover it through prism of the top two candidates. but you could well see the beginnings of a murder/suicide pac that creates a space for marco rube you weio or another can't to emerge. this is a demolition derby with a lot of cars in it. >> steve, it's stunning to me i saw jeb bush's approval/disapproval, 31/47 in the latest poll that i've seen. and it's stunning to me that the republican establishment is all running to him throwing money at him. i'm not so sure that we have the winner in the race yet. >> well, look i think you look at jeb bush right now. i don't think it's a function of his conservative record his

governance of florida which was successful. there just may be a reluctance and unwillingness inside the republican primary lech or rate to nominate a person no matter how good a record they have whose last name is bush. there's two types of elections. change elections and more of the same election. and i think there's a lot of energy in the republican party to move forward into the second decade of the 21st century with a candidate who is not a figure of the past by last name. >> but, chris matthews mike allen was just telling me yesterday you've got to go back a very very long way to find a republican nominee that didn't win without the establishment money, the establishment back. whatever. jeb has already got those locked down. >> i don't think they're worth much. >> you don't think they're worth much now? >> as you get into the primary starting in iowa through new hampshire, even new hampshire, i think bush is going to lose new hampshire the way things are going. i think it's because the party is angry.

they don't like obama. i think the test of your republicanism is now is your visceral connection. how you connect vis mrazceral to what is going on. bush doesn't look angry with the direction of the country. >> who do you like? >> i wouldn't have said this a couple weeks ago but i think cruz is going to do well in the fight with huckabee and with santorum. on that wing of the party. if you're run for student council, you've been all through this. pick up your ones first. he goes to the tea party. then you go for your twos evangelicals. he's picking up ones and then libertarians. he's systematically picking up the republican party leaving the onlialern tern tive as moderate. he could kill moderate. >> ted cruz sees this primary as a bracket like the ncaa bracket. >> he said he was the number one among evangelicalevangelicals.

>> he may have competition there. do you see ted cruz as -- i'm hearing over the past week people starting to think, this guy can do it. >> i think what he does do is he brings the entire primary field to the right but i do think he will get tons of media traction and whether or not that translates into votes we'll see. i think on that libertarian sort of conservative track that he is on he's going to run into competition from huckabee and rand paul. i'm still high on scott walker as i was in 2013. sort of my prediction oh, scott walker will come through this. the answer though on immigration, the answer on ethanol, he's flip-flopping. that's problematic. if you're going to be the tried and true conservative brand who stands up to everybody. really bad. >> apparently he flipped flopd on new hampshire meeting. >> this morning there's a new joke, twitter feed up, walker's bunker. and making fun of the fact that walker is not doing any avails on the trail.

he was in south care didn't do one -- six candidates have been to south carolina in the last two months. one didn't face the media of scott walker. >> one thing that steve schmidt said on jeb bush it's not just that it's the jeb bush. clearly people are fed up with that. if he was rock solid on i'm graks and if he was rock solid on education, he would have more of a chance with the conservative base than he has. it's his policies as well, the fact of his name. >> so far he has nod flipped. >> walker has. >> steve schmidt, stay with us. ahead, weekly standard's john mccormick says the media after the holidays wouldn't be the same without your crescent rolls. we got you a little something. we got you jeans. it's about time. pipin' hot pillsbury crescent rolls. make easter pop! i'm brian vickers, nascar® driver. i'm kevin nealon comedian. and i'm arnold palmer, professional golfer. know what we have in common? we talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. me, when i had a blood clot

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up next with a deadline looming can a deal be struck with iran's nuclear capability? live from switzerland, the latest in the talks and we'll discuss whether it's actually a good deal for america to have them or not. also now details emerging what happened to the cockpit of germanwings flight 9525 in the flight's final desperate moments. katy tur has new information and she's live from germany. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hey, girl. is it crazy that your soccer trophy is talking to you right now? it kinda is. it's as crazy as you not rolling over your old 401k. cue the horns... just harness the confidence it took you to win me and call td ameritrade's rollover consultants. they'll help with the hassle by guiding you through the whole process step by step. and they'll even call your old provider. it's easy. even she

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the governor of indiana has signed a new law allowing businesses to turn away gay and lesbian customers saying it's part of their religious freedom. you'll be able to tell which stores are supporting the new law, because they'll have these helpful little signs. the head of the house committee investigating the benghazi attack said friday that hillary clinton wiped her personal e-mail server clean permanently deleting all her e-mails. so at least one clinton has learned how to wipe something clean. >> a new justice department report claims that the american dea agents in colombia participated in sex parties hired by drug cartels's in light

of this irresponsible behavior, the agents have been promoted to secret service. welcome to "morning joe"! on a happy monday with us on set, in washington, d.c., washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay, and from "the washington post," san stein. former white house press secretary for president obama robert gibbs and senior foreign affairs correspondent for politico, michael crowley. getting on to me katty, early this morning, makes me sad, because, you know i just want to get along with everybody. >> no one ever gives you a hard time. mika's not here. somebody has to do it. >> somebody has to. about this deal with iran you said for some time you don't think it's going to come through. i think the president's december froit make it happen -- desperate to make it happen. >> there's still a chance the iranians back out, put on

restrictions too tough and if it's not a deal that the president can feel good about, they can walk away. >> i think the president, robert gibbs, is desperate for a deal. i think presidents get to this phase in their presidency, time at the white house, and they'll do just about anything to get a deal. right now though iranians seem to be pushing us as far as they can push us. >> i mean i think we expected each side would push at the very end as hard as they can. i do not think that the overriding factor here is to say you've gotten a deal. i think the overriding factor is to get something that the administration and the government believes sets the time back for the development of a weapon by year and if it doesn't meet that standard it's not worth doing. >> okay. now, before we go to the news let's dig a little deeper down into this issue. just one very technical issue. did you think there was any possibility whatsoever that the university of kentucky wildcats would come back after trailing

the entire game? >> worse than an iranian nuclear weapon. >> huh? can you believe it? that kentucky/notre dame game was incredible. notre dame played and incredible game. >> a little heartbreaking if you are were a notre dame fan to be close in that game. >> two evil empires, which do you want isis or al qaeda? >> that's awful! >> my parents went to the university of kentucky and wildcats through and through, my father cheering for the wildcats from heaven but al qaeda. >> one step above, i guess. i'm not -- obviously not emotionally ready for the national championship. >> has your mother gotten over your debut from "meet the press"? >> very happy with how i did. not that happy with -- >> still haeking ingattacking me.

still attacking you. >> she did not attack you. >> it's vicious, it's sad. the headline "new york times," iran backs away from a key element of the deal and right now the state department is pushing back on the "new york times" story. so a lot going on. >> way negotiating deadline looming, iranian officials backing away from what western nations involveded in these talks view as a crucial demand. that iran ship its nuclear fuel out of the country. for months they've agreed to send much of its stockpile to russia but on sunday the country's deputy foreign minister cold reporters there is not question of sending the stocks abroad. pushing back against that "new york times" report saying that viable options have been under discussion for months and that iran has previously denied they would export enriched uranium and part of a deal. meanwhile, senator majority

leader mitch mcconnell is on a trip to israel appeared alongside israely prime ministerbenjamin netanyahu sunday making it clear agreeing with the criticism of the deal negotiated in switzerland. >> talks continue as usual, in lausanne, and a deal that from everything that we hear paves iran's way to the bomb. >> the group who are here share your concerns about this potential agreement, the option if there's an agreement is a bill that we intend to vote on that enjoys bipartisan support to require that agreement to come to congress for approval. there's no deal. then the view of this group, similar to your own, is that ratcheting up sanctions might be the best direction to take in the wake of a deal that does not come together. >> let's go to lausanne switzerland, right now nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell

reports" andrea mitchell is with us to bring us the very latest. andrea, let's play a game here. we're going to start around the set of "morning joe." why is joe wrong? i think the president is desperate for a deal and will take whatever he can get but it's not looking that way this morning. is it possible that both sides at the end of the day walk away from the table with nothing? >> reporter: it is very possible that they walk away. perhaps not with nothing, because there is some agreements that won't hold up but can then be baseline for a future negotiation. this thing is very fragile and the "new york times" reporting today is another case of that. just to put the context in, i know you, joe, are familiar with this former member of congress and someone very familiar with u.s. intelligence katty covered these types of negotiations. you know what happens. they agree on something but nothing is firm unless everything is together and it is a very complicated puzzle. they repeatedly tell us nothing is final until everything is agreed to. that said the "new york times" is absolutely correct that all

along they have said that they would export their enriched uranium. there are other ways as the state department says to get at this problem, but it is such a complicated thing that to achieve the one-year breakout meaning at least one year before iran could create a nuclear weapon, that the inspectors would be able to have that kind of warning, with verification, that there would be one year's head start or alert to the international community, and this is something that as you know israel and critics have long said is not possible. but what officials tell us here they've carefully lyconstructed this partly reducing the stockpile down to a point it's not dangerous, can't be used to make a bomb exported to another country, russia willing to take it. all this is part of the deal and if one part of that puzzle is out then the thing is fall apart. so what they're saying is what they knew this all along and that they had other ways to get

at this. you'll hear a lot of pushback but this is a problem. as i've talked to other nuclear experts, they confirm what the "new york times" is reporting. it is a problem if that stockpile is not reduced. it can be diluted, solidified into oxide so it can't be turned into a weapon but those are tougher and it's going to make it that much harder to sell this deal. one other quick point. the foreign minister of russia mr. lavrov, sergeir sergey lavrov late for the big meeting. and lavrov is now leaving we have confirmed. he's going someplace else and leaving his deputy and will come back tomorrow if there is a deal. >> a busy man. >> see how things are going. >> a busy man, a busy schedule. i'm sure there's more pressing things. >> he has more things to do. >> nbc's andrea mitchell. thank you so much. all right.

before we go to our next story, michael crowley, why am i wrong? >> why are you wrong that the president wants a deal -- >> that the president is so desperate for a deal at the end of the day he's going to give iranians everything they want? >> where i think you're wrong, because a deal so bad that he can't defend it in congress and therefore gets a deal and it's immediately shot down by congress, that's worse than no deal or a very weak deal. it he gets a deal the congress is going to come stampeding towards it. i'm sure they're making a calculation in the white house where's the tipping point? how can we hold together enough democrats to prevent a veto from being overridden? at some point they say we can't it will go down in flames and we're better off being in front of that like the speaker shouldn't bring a vote to the floor unless he knows he's going to win. they won't have the fight unless they're confident they can hold off the democrats. >> doesn't other things happening in the region dplact complicate that? give sanctions relief to iran in

any form of a deal congress can easily say we're funneling essentially money to the yemeni opposition and fighting both sides of the coin. so, you know, there are other moving parts here that complicate the deal. >> listen, the timing's incredibly bad. >> the whole context is harder than before. >> it's hard to imagine, katty, a worst time where you have actually the sunni world afraid even in iraq moderates, the pentagon reported this lack week by mik, the pentagon is discouraged no moderate sunnis stepping out. the reason no sunni awakening like there was before, because you have iran. inside the country. and they don't see isis as big of an enemy as they see the iranians and now of course you have egypt and saudi arabia and now concerned about what's happening in yemen. the timing for this deal for america, bending over backwards to do a deal with iran for that region is so destabilizing.

americans, most americans don't really dig into the difference between sunnis and shyites, but this is a massive deal. we are going to alienate the entire middle east whose far more fearful of iran than even we. >> it's staggering how fast this sunni/shia split has widened over the last couple of months. really since last summer since isis went into iraq you look at the arc from iran through iraq through syria into lebanon of an increasing shia majority and shia influence and, of course every sunni-dominated state in the gulf is looking at that with alarm. the only thing i would say about the iran's involvement in those areas is perhaps it put some economic pressure on iran increasing economic pressure on iran to do a deal. they are spending a lot of money on their client states at the moment and might make they think we have to stick at this get sanctions relief. paying in iraq syria, in lebanon. >> more news broke this weekend

in the plane crash. >> ah this crim story. >> such a grim story. >> you think the story can't get worse. >> it always does. get on the plane this past weekend and everybody's looking at each other. we okay? and i had a lot of people say the same thing. one pilot got on the intercom before he took off, said hey, you did the flight. and by the way, we're both married, happily, and we're going to see our kids later this afternoon. you know? >> i didn't want to hear that. just take off. i don't need the reassurances. just fly the plane. >> fly the plane. >> you know the details are really grim. the investigation into andreas lubitz the troubled germanwings copilot accused of deliberately crashing that jet that had 150 people onboard. a new detailed account what happened before it crashed into the french alps. nbc news correspondent katy tur join us live from the germanwings headquarters.

katy what more do we know about his background in particular? seems pretty troubling. >> well the background medical issues are trickling out in the newspapers here and stuff that hasn't been confirmed by investigators, because they're still trying to straighten it all out. as you were saying yes, this story keeps getting worse and as you know it's the fourth major plane incident in just over a year. they're still looking for the flight data recorder from this crash, but now there is a chilling report citing the other black box. the cockpit voice recorder that purports to describe horrifyingly the final minutes inside that plane. >> the german tabloid "bild" reported a timeline from the cockpit voice recorder. the flight started normally with the captain apologizing for a delay. during the ascent mentions to copilot andreas lubitz that he didn't get a chance to use the restroom. >> lubitz tells the captain he can take over at any time.

the captain asks lubitz to prepare for landing at dusseldorf. a few minutes later lubitz says you can go now. the captain leaves and shortly after he's gone the paper says lubitz can be heard pushing his chair back. the door clicks shut. the plane begins to descend. air travel control calls. no answer. the captain begins banging on the door yelling for god's sake, open the door. passengers scream in the background. alarm bells sound and the captain says open the damn door. nbc news has not confirmed this account and authorities will neither confirm nor deny it. still, as the search continues lubitz' motive remains a mystery. what's it a personal crisis depression or another medical issue? lubitz had seen doctors for problems with his vision according to multiple reports, although it's unclear how severe. but as investigators try to sort it all out, this grieving father says it hardly matters. >> if there was a motive or a reason we do not want to hear

it. it's not relevant. what is relevant is it should never happen again. my son and everyone on that plane should not be forgotten, ever. >> reporter: now investigators confirmed they have dna for about half of the victims and are going to nach it up with dna they've been able to gather from the families but still ways to go before they're going to be able to bury their dead. sorry about this umbrella. it literally just started to hail in the last 30 seconds. back to you. >> hey, very good. all right. nbc's katy tur, thank so much. greatly appreciated. a lot more to talk about including a couple "60 minutes" stories last night, sam. you were watching "60 minutes" with the grown-ups. it's always -- that's just -- >> never stops. >> not even monday morning. the assad interview absolutely fascinating. >> yeah. first of all a great get obviously and then the conditions were curious but had to go on syrian tv making it very odd. it's clear assad is in a state of total denial about everything.

>> assad is not going. >> not going. >> and you look at assad and look at isis and you think, you know what? my thought was, this guy is going to be around for a very long time. >> yeah, and the world political games he was playing with which are which are, like i have the legitimate support of all the people, and charlie would say how do you know? well i have my finger on the pulse of the people. no, you don't. you know? you're not like going up for elections or anything like that. >> he does seem -- gave an interview to the bbc a couple weeks ago. i took away how confident. >> very confident. >> he may not have the support of a lot of the syrian people increasingly has support of washington. john brennan a couple weeks ago said the collapse of the assad government would be a disaster. extremists running syria and we are moving away from position where we want him out. we're looking for a solution. >> no doubt. still ahead on "morning joe," the "weekly standard's" john mccormick takes on indiana's new controversial law. by bad journalism is to blame. and later, "project runway"

our guest. and why it's snowing in my hometown right now bill karins? over over over . over the weekend, snowing in naen. in line the lion out like a lamb as we warm things up. all of the moistures this morning heading off the coast. snowflakes as far south as maryland and delaware. further down the coast heavier rain. the charlotte area big umbrella over the next half hour. no lightning some downpours. atlanta another 15 minutes your rain will be over too. over the weekend, we know how miserable it was in the northeast. areas of the west record highs. phoenix, arizona, has had three days in a row of 95 degrees. you think phoenix no big deal, but this is the earliest in the year it's ever happened and today 96. never even come close to four days 95-plus this early in the year. record heat possible near palm springs, fresno sacramento even boise could be near a

record high in the upper 70s. today's forecast no bad weather out there really today. no severe storms causing damage. a lot of warmth in the west through the middle of the country and new england still has a chill even through the rest of this week. no big real steer weather outbreaks. the story cooler in the west and finally warming up in the east and we deserve it. it was a miserable, miserable end to winter for all of new england. we leave you a shot of the washington monument in d.c. talking cherry blossoms shortly, because the warm weather, it's coming. your mom's got your back. your friends have your back. your dog's definitely got your back. but who's got your back when you need legal help? we do. we're legalzoom, and over the last 10 years, we've helped millions of people protect their families and run their businesses. we have the right people on-hand to answer your questions

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good morning. it's time to look at morning papers beginning with the new york daily news. two bodies recovered from the site of thursdayal building explosion in new york city. among the dead nicholas figueroa, on a date at the sushi park restaurant. his family says he died paying the tab. hit date reportedly survived. a 26-year-old raunt worker believed to be the other restaurant worker we're waiting on positive i.d. and from the"the washington post" post", carly fiorina her chances of running for the republican nomination are higher than 90%. sounds like she's running. also went after democratic front-runner hillary clinton saying the e-mail scandal "suggests her character is flawed." fiorina's announcement likely to come in late ip early may. >> you never know who's catching on, who's knop pt a big surprise

out of cpac hour well her speech was receive and people are starting to talk positively about a woman that very few gave any chance of making any waves. >> she had a very bad image and reputation a few years ago. >> she did. >> just not being somebody likable on the campaign. interesting on the campaign trail. >> yeah. but, sam -- you were there. a big surprise. conservatives start the talking. >> predominantly because she was viciously attacking hillary clinton and what they wanted to hear. if she can parlay that in something useful on the campaign trail i wouldn't discount her getting support there. >> anything's possible. this from the "associated press." months before the edward snowden leaks there was a proposal circulating within the national security agency to kill its secret phone surveillance program because some believed it wasn't worth the trouble. that proposal reportedly had been circulating among top managers but had not reached the desk of then nsa director

general keith alexander. two former nsa officials kel the a.p. they doubt alexander would have approved it. >> from the "weekend update," a new study published in the journal of marriage saying the amount of time a parent spends with their child has virtually no affect how they turn out. >> dear lord. now they tell me 27 years later? i could have gone to the dog track! of course it make as difference. >> you went to the dog track anyway joe. >> i couldn't take my child to the dog track. >> one of those confusing reports because you can read it pretty much anywayy want. researchers saying it suggests more about quality of time than quantity according to the study. >> again, the dog track. >> the dog track! >> should have gone to horse racing what that means. >> instances where parent/child time can be harmful when a parent particularly mothers, completely stressed to be on "morning joe" too early in the morning are guilty or anxious.

>> there's always been a debate always a debate about quality time versus quantity of time. >> just the latest. >> and they're just saying. >> tons of stuff. >> quality time matters the most. let me just say, that -- study people, pure garbage. it's quality and quantity of time. you can't parachute in go daddy's here! it's like you've got to be there. all us look bad. >> be there are on a regular basis. can't jet off to the other side of the world, six months later, spending a week with you on the beach. that doesn't work. >> exactly. we all look back hopefully all of us had fairly happy lives with our parents, but you know i don't have any extraordinary moment in time where my dad grabbed me and said son, you know i still and proud of you and -- no. i just remember my dad always there. always there at the baseball games. always there-we always sat around the dinner table. one of the things as i've gotten

older. we just don't eat out. we eat around the dinner table, and you know it -- quality of time is great but quantity seems matters so emergency, too. >> and i think that point how if you're stressed out, anxious as a parent you're probably not doing your kid much good being around. >> what if you're always stressed. >> try not to be. >> okay. mike pence is proud of a law he says protects religious freedoms but has a powerful list of critics including apple's tim cook and the ncaa who disagree. and "project runway" is here and leadership he joins us on the "morning joe" set ahead. at mfs, we believe in the power of active management. our teams collaborate around the world, which leads to better decisions for our clients.

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yes or no should it be legal to discriminate against gays and lesbians? >> george you're following the moun traa mantra of the last week online and trying to make this issue about something else. what i am for is protecting at the highest standards in our courts the religious liberty of hoosiers. i signed the bill we're going to continue to explain it to people that don't understand it and if possible we will find a

way to amplify what this bill valley in the legislative process, but i stand by this law. it was an important step forward with bill clinton signed it in '93, important to keeping the promises ss of our bill of rights and constitution and proud indiana adopted the religious freedom restoration act. >> i stand by that law. indiana governor mike pence yesterday on abc defending his state's controversial religious freedom law. critics say it allows business owners to discriminate against gays and lesbians under the banner of religious views, but governor pence says it simply keeps the government from infringing on the first amendment and accused the media of pushing a false narrative. pence says he's be open to clarifying the intent of this bill. joe? >> bring in for "the weekly standard," and reporter for the

hill and kasie hunt and steve schmidt in new york. steve, begin with you. seems the response of the media has been uniform that this is an anti-gay law, that will hurt republicans in the long run. what's been your take? >> look at the end of the day, politically, this is not a good law for republicans nationally. i think we start at the place was "look at the 2016 election, joe, where if you look at just the states that democrats have won, six out of the last six elections at 242 electoral votes, 270 needed to win. popular sentiment across the country politically. not on the side of those passing such laws. secondly, when you look at this from an economic competitiveness perspective, this hurts indiana business. it will hurt the convention business. it will hurt some of the growing entrepreneurial growth in

indianapolis. thirdly, when you look at this it opens up a litigation nightmare for businesses small businesses in the state, and i think that one of the outcomes of this is where this is being debated, being considered in other states i think you will see a great slowing of any momentum to pass unnecessary legislation, in my view like this in other states because this does supersede the first amendment, obviously. >> john mccormick let me bring you in. first to admit i've focused much more on music color bombs possibly in iran and a meltdown in the middle east. i haven't really dug into this law so much. the one thing i do know, though is that bill clinton signed a very similar law when he was president. barack obama actually voted for a very similar law, when he was in illinois and now i'm being told at least on twitter and online that mike pence is a

right-wing stooge who hates all gay people. i mean i'm not overstating it. the reaction has been explosive. again, i've seen it from a distance, but i also know that bill clinton support add bill like this and so did barack obama. so what am i missing? >> actions intense and egregiously wrong. not my take but a couple law professors from starnford and the university of virginia real scholars exact standard used in the liberty case since 1993 in 20 other states now. >> so this is the federal standard right now? >> it's a standard and a balancing test. >> so why -- why habecome defined as bigotry over the past week or two? i don't have a dog in this fight as we say in northwest fla. the red neck riviera. why bill clinton supported it barack obama supported it and now in the past week a media narrative out of washington and new york if you support a bill like this -- i guess bill

clinton is a bigot who hates gay people and barack obama is a bigot who hates gay people. if you believe what people have been talking about over the past couple of weeks. >> this law's been on the book two decades. scholars say if it were a license to discriminate against gay team leading to a widespread discrimination it would have happened. it hasn't happened not going to happen. most cases don't involve gay rights. a case of a muslim prisoner allowed to grow a half-inch beard. catholic nuns objecting to pay for contraception drugs. where this does touch on gay rights po pech lytentially, a christian florist in washington state serves gay people harks gay customers. in my good conscience, i can't work a gay wedding. we don't know how it will turn out. >> educate me here. trying to fig ter out. >> the piece of this story so interesting is that tech companies have come out en masse

in this law and critical of it showing how powerful the companies are as brands almost as a moral force growing in this country. you know companies like apple, angie's list, starbucks, ebay come out and said this is a dangerous law, that states that pass laws like this, they will not do business with. >> the laws have been kasy on ot books 20 years. i'm not advocateing for the law. trying to figure out what's been the federal standard for 20 years supported by bill clinton and barack obama is suddenly a danger to human rights in america? >> look, joe, you know as well as anyone public opinion on gay rights issues and marriage has moved so fast in the last 20 years. >> right. >> over that period of time. barack obama today is not where -- he may have been pushed into it by joe biden, but still not where he was as a state senator when has law in question was passed. it might be a situation where

public opinion, the members of the state legislature might be running behind public opinion, what they're confronting. >> could be one of those things we're throwing the baby out with the bath water trying to protect gay rights but we trample on the rights of again, all of these other examples the native american smoking peyote is part of a religious process. the muslim-american, you know wearing a beard a certain way or doing certain things that people say they don't have religious, the religious rights to do. >> that's possible but do you see polls shifting on native americans and muslim-americans to anything like the degree they have shifted on gay americans? >> no but we're talking about the law here. >> we're talking about the law but also talking about the public backlash against the law and the fact -- you said it. bill clinton signed it when president. barack obama when he was a state senator in illinois. that's a long time ago. things have changed in this country dramatically. even in the last three years

since the last law of this kind was signed into law. >> right. >> so they're just fighting a tidal wave of public opinion. you're right. maybe the law hasn't changed and maybe some things will be jeopardized because of it but this is the biggest social shift in american public opinion we've seen. >> john mccormick i agree completely but we're not just talking about gay rights but the rights of native americans to worship as they want. the rights of muslims to not be discriminated against. if you're talking about religious freedom generally you can't just target evangelicals and say, you can't practice your beliefs the way you practice your beliefs even if 95% of americans disagree with you, but native americans can, muslims can. others -- isn't that the problem? this isn't about -- isn't a potpourri. you don't get to choose talking about religious freedom and liberty the standard has to be the same for all. >> religious liberty applies

across the board to all religions. the public backlash because the public has been badly misinformed. if i thought the law would lead to discrimination against gay people i woe oppose it. i don't think it will. it's perfectly legal in many places for a hotel or restaurant to say they don't want to serve people. they don't do it because it's an awful thing to do bad for business and that's the state of law in america. >> steve schmidt got to go but final word. go. >> look at the end of the day the effect of this law as a practical matter made indiana less economically competitive and where this is is under consideration in other states you'll see a lot of second thinking, hey, the job of the government in these states provide for economic growth bring businesses in get the economy moving and i think this was an unnecessary law, and at the end of the day i think you'll see it freezing momentum with these laws in other states and this will be a big problem for governor pence in the state of indiana. >> all right.

steve, thank you so much. always great to have you on. john mccorporal in, thank you as well. greatly appreciate. we'll be right back. national gives me the control to choose any car in the aisle i want. i could choose you... or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. know your financial plan won't keep you up at night. know you have insights from professional investment strategists to help set your mind at ease. know that planning for retirement can be the least of your worries. with the guidance of a pnc investments financial advisor, know you can get help staying on track

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high performance skincare™ only from roc®. it is 8:42 and joining us now staff writer for "the new yorker," covers politics and foreign affairs. new cover titled "born red: inindemocraten profile of chinese president ping." >> thank you so much for being with us. you write in this piece a quarter of the way through his tenure term emerged as the most authoritarian leader since chairman mao. stop. that would about surprise for a lot of americans. we think a new china, more capitalistic than communist. a leader consolidated power in a few few in the west understand? >> done an extraordinary thing. combined the economic strength

of this moment with the political technology of the generation that came before. so for instance he grew up in the communist party. a pure product, father a revolutionary hero. he got to this period said what do we need? we need strength economic power. to achieve those things i need to consolidate power into my hands. >> how does he have the power to do that and his predecessors did not? >> his president says. nickname was a guy, nickmaim woman with bound feet because he was hemmed in so much by his peers. >> i'm thinking that it's not -- you don't know. something could get lost in translation. i'm thinking that wasn't a collect? >> not entirely a collect. exactly. >> subtleties in mandarin. depends on the dialect but the woman inbound feet. >> he was unable to do what this guy has done is he didn't have the pedigree. this guy grew up knowing the tools of the trade in the communist party. acquired ten title.

not just head of state and party, head of the military all the most important committees effectively oversees the courts police secret police. haven't had anybody like this in a generation. >> if you are a foreign company wanting to do business in china and one thing we know about jinping, a massive crackdown on corruption. how does this affect the way you do business with china today. >> he is essential to the process and can't pretend he's not the key ingredient. done bold things economically and on social policy. for instance, made it easier for private companies to compete against the big state on enterprises. rid of the register requirement. done things like allowed -- force the big state on companies to give more profits back in dividends, but he has also said if you're a foreign company and want to compete in china, you have to be foremost to our benefit before you're to your benefit. he's saying we'll make sure

chinese companies succeed first and then you succeed. a difficult period for foreign companies. >> you write a year ago the internet was more available in china than today. here in the u.s. we've started to equate the growing internet tech sector all of that with more economic growth. seems the chinese are doing the opposite. how does that square? how do they reduce internet freedom and at the same time try to, what they're obviously doing, trying to grow their economy so fast? >> hard sell. a growing middle class that's come to understand they'll have access to the internet around the world. the party and jinping are worried, coming from the outside world contributing to the unrest in ukraine, the unrest in the arab world and will do what they can to prevent that means cut down on chinese internet connections with the outside world. a key point which is inside the country the internet is robust. try to get on a website oversea, the "new york times," bloomberg, reuters, "wall street journal," impossible. >> the chinese have been

learning from the mistakes russia's made since 1989. remarkable. >> wondering about jinping's personality and reputation among the people? what have you found? >> a fascinating figure for those who write about people like this. his nickname big uncle chi. >> better than the woman with bound feet. >> you have to choose. one the state press adopted, basically created it. they want to create that he's your friend. >> our joe stalin. we call joe stalin uncle joe. six in one, half dozen in the other. that was great. your wife was wrong pap great article. the piece is in the new issue of "the new yorker." coming up "project runway" tim gunn telling us how to lead well and how to look well. he joins us, next.

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the collection can't be one note. so you wanted something that was serious. it can't look so serious. need sass fun, street. you've got to make it seem you would wear every single look. amanda, they want sophisticated, and clothes. >> i've got to say, that looks just like me before we go on the show and i'm talking to mika

about her outfit. it's separated at birth perhaps. a look there at the season 13 finale. 13 years. of lifetime's "project runway" it's huge, katty. huge in your house? >> my daughter's favorite show. hates dmitri can never understand why he wins. we sit there gripped by these people and i love the clothes. >> with us now the longtime co-host tim gunn and author of a book. start there tim. 13 years. unbelievable? >> it really is. a huge fan of the show so thank you for having me. >> a great honor to have you here. just looking back through your history and you actually one interesting note a lot of fans may not know your father was an fbi agent under j. edgar hoover.

>> he was, 26 years. >> unbelievable. talk about your book "the natty professor of motivating and making it work." you start at the very beginning, a good place to start about truth-telling. the importance of truth-telling. >> yes. absolutely. i have to say, it's so important when someone can actually benefit from the truth, providing it's truth-telling that is something that someone can do something about. in other words, i don't believe in talking to people about things they can't change. but when it's something you can change and wrap your brain around it and harness your resources to do something about it then i believe that it should be talked about. >> tell you what not joking when i say this about mika. one of the things i've learned from mika over the years, she's very direct and blunt with people who work with us and i'm always a politician trying to say, hey, it's okay. mika has taught me it's much better tim, to be up front. tell them what the problem is and then they can learn from it

and get better. >> i absolutely agree. particularly true on "project runway." we have no time. i can't sit back think, maybe i'll talk to the designer in an hour. in an hour time could be up. >> but tim, you also kpincombine it pi empathy. your truth-telling comes with some kind of sugar coating, perhaps. >> what i do katty, i play through my head what it is that i want to say to someone, and i think, how would i respond if someone were to present these words to me with this particular tone or intonation. if i have a bad reaction to it i have to amend it in some way. for me that's what empathy is very much about. how would i respond to this? >> right. you're dealing with incredibly high-stressed situations on the show. >> yes. >> a lot of money at stake in their designing and really under the gun, these designers. >> and it's not only the prize but also they're egos.

designers by creative definition, have huge egos and want to only shine. they only want their best work presented. there's a huge amount of stress. >> kasy. >> what is the color for summer this year and are bell-bottoms back and do we really have to wear them? >> let me answer for you, no. >> the note on the bell-bottoms yes, they're in. romancing the '70s as though we've never heard of it before. not the most wonderful decade when it comes to fashion. i have an operative mode about trends. a trend is only good if it works for you. if you're not a bell bottom person, by no means go out and get them and when it comes to orange i have to say, you both look stunning in it. however, it really depends upon how it reflects upon your kin.

ooimz always saying take the chin set of. hold up the color underneath your chin and see how it reflects upon your face. if you look as though you're glowing, as you both do it's good. if you look sallow. it's not good. the chin test. >> sallow no. >> you know it's a color for me that never goes out of fashion. sallow. it's been working since the 1970s. and note to the bell bottoms. i like the pants so tailored at the bottom you lose circulation in your feet. tim gunn thank so much. the book "the natty professor" talking about truth-telling, empathy, asking cheerleading and hoping for the best. boy, sounds great. i can't wait to read it. that does it for us this morning. "the rundown" picks up things right after a short break. know your numbers, and stay focused. i was determined to create new york city's first self-serve frozen yogurt franchise. and now you have 42 locations. the more i put into my business the more i get out of it. like 5x your rewards when you make select business purchases with your ink plus card from chase.

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