and as for her and ben... ...she's coming around. purina cat chow gentle. one hundred percent complete and balanced for everyday feeding of adult cats. this sunday, the iran deal, appeasement of of an enemy or a historic agreement that makes the world safer. >> it is a good deal. a deal that meets our core objectives. >> can he sell it to a skeptical congress and allies in the middle east? israel's prime minister will join me live. plus, fight over those so-called religious liberty laws that are splitting the republican party. >> whole lot of republican politicians are terrified. >> 2016 gop hopeful, louisiana's bobby jindal will weigh in. opening day is here. rob manfred and how our national past time is trying to remain part of our national future.

and, of course, whether pete rose should be allowed into the hall of fame. i'm chuck todd. joining me to provide insight and analysis this morning are matt bai of yahoo! news, helene cooper of "the new york times," amy walter of the cook political report and perry bacon from nbc news.com. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press with chuck todd." good morning. now comes the hard part, the u.s. and its negotiating partners reached an agreement with iran on a framework of a deal to contain iran's nuclear program. not surprisingly, the reaction is decidedly mixed. iran's foreign minister got a hero's welcome when he arrived home. but more hawkish elements in each country criticized the deal. hard-liners on iran charge their side gave up too much to placate the united states. and here at home, president obama faces a tough task of convincing not just republicans,

but many democrats that this deal is better than no agreement at all, which could allow iran to continue its nuclear program without limitations or inspections. one key ally the president has certainly been unable to convince is israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu. he joins me now live from jerusalem. prime minister, happy passover. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. happy holidays to all. >> i will have more than four questions for you, i promise you that. let me start with this, which is if this deal -- you were going to be against perhaps any deal that didn't bring iran down to zero centrifuges. why not let this deal get implemented even for six months to see how this is implemented before trying to kill the deal? >> not trying to kill any deal. i'm trying to kill a bad deal. you say it is historic decision, historic deal, could be historically bad deal because it

leaves the preeminent terror state of our time with a vast nuclear infrastructure, and, remember, not one centrifuge is destroyed, thousands of centrifuges will be left spinning iranian, not a single facility, including underground facilities, nuclear facilities as being shut down. this is a deal that leaves iran with the capacity to produce the material for many, many nuclear bombs and it does so by lifting the sanctions pretty much up front so iran will have billions of dollars flown to its coffers, not for schools or hospitals or roads, but to pump up the worldwide terror machine and military machine which is busy conquering the middle east as we speak. the preeminent terror state of our time should not have access to a vast nuclear capability that will ultimately give them nuclear weapons. that's concern for israel, for the region, for the peace of the world. >> let me ask you this, you have a deal that was negotiated by the united states, china, russia, britain, france,

germany, all of them on one side of this deal. you're on the other. are you concerned that israel is being isolated from the world community on this issue? >> no, i don't. look, the entire world celebrated the deal with north korea. it was deemed to be a great breakthrough it would break into the program, you to would have inspectors that would do the job. and, of course, everybody applauded it. it turned out to be a very, very bad deal. and you know where we are with north korea. i think the same thing would be true in the case of iran, except that iran is a great deal more dangerous than north korea. it is a militant islamic power built on regional domination. bent on world domination. openly says so. they just chanted death to america a few days ago on the streets of tehran. the same streets where they're rejoicing right now. don't give the preeminent terror state of our time the access to

a nuclear program that could help them make nuclear weapons. it is very bad for all of us. >> well, you, in 2012, contemplated a preliminary report that you kind of asked your cabinet for permission to potentially strike iran's nuclear facilities. do you still plan on keeping that option open even if this deal is implemented by the united nations and by the united states? >> chuck, i'm the only israeli left standing. i never talked about our military option. but i will say this, i prefer a diplomatic solution. you know why? because for any military option, the country that will pay the biggest price is always israel. so we want a diplomatic solution, but a good one, one that rolls back iran's nuclear infrastructure and one that ties the final lifting of restrictions on iran's nuclear program with a change of iran's behavior. mainly they stop their aggression in the region, stop

the world wide terrorism and stop calling and working for the annihilation of israel. these are the requirements there is still time to put in place and i'll use whatever means i have including this program to try to persuade people to go for this deal, which is the only one that will give us peace and security. >> would you advise saudi arabia and egypt now to pursue their own nuclear program, given the way this deal looks in your eyes? >> no, i wouldn't advise them to do that, chuck, but i think that despite the spoken words, there is enormous concern throughout the sunni states in the region and i think one of the unfortunate, even tragic results of this deal, if it goes through, is that it would spark an arms race among the sunni states, nuclear arms race in the middle east. and the middle east crisscrossed with nuclear trip wires is a nightmare for the world. i think this deal is a dream deal for iran, and it is a nightmare deal for the world.

>> there has been plenty of reports about israel's nuclear deterrent strategy. do you believe that in an ideal situation no middle eastern country would have nuclear weapons? >> in an ideal situation, it wouldn't have countries seeking to annihilate the state of israel and openly say that. the iran general said that on the eve of the signing or the announcement of this framework in lausanne, the commander of the sources in tehran says the destruction of israel is nonnegotiable. i think the real problem in the middle east is not the democracy of israel, that has shown restraint and responsibility, but it is the countries like iran that pursue nuclear weapons with the exclusive goal of annihilating us and also ultimately of conquering the middle east and threatening you. that's why they're developing icbms, intercontinental ballistic missiles, that are meant for one purpose only, to

carry nuclear payloads to a theater near you. they're not intended for us. they already have missiles that reach us. they're developing icbms to reach the united states. don't give them these weapons. don't give them nuclear tips, nuclear icbms with which they can threaten you. >> sounds like you want congress to kill this deal. sounds like you want the u.s. congress to do everything in their power to kill this deal. is that what you would like them to do? >> i would like the united states and the other members of the p5 plus 1 to get a better deal. there is still time. you can ratchet up the sanctions. abiding sanctions were imposed for first time only in 2012. that got iran within 18 months to the table. once you got to the table, instead of ratcheting up the sanctions and the pressures, in fact, you reduce the pressure and iran felt no need to make any concessions at all. you have time to insist on a better deal and to ratchet up the pressure. that's the preferable route for

all of us. >> i want to ask you a quick question on two state solution issues. want to read you some sound from denis mcdonough, the white house chief of staff. here is what he said right after your re-election. the borders of israel and independent palestine should be based on the 1967 line with mutually agreed swaps. each state needs borders and there must be safeguards for israel's security. an occupation that has lasted for almost 50 years must end and the palestinian people must have the right to live in and govern themselves in their own sovereign state. are you comfortable with the president's chief of staff referring to israel as an occupier? >> well, you know, successive israeli governments including my own offered to end this dispute and have -- i have offered to have a demilitarized palestinian state recognize the one and only jewish state. that was and remains my position. what i said was that under the present circumstances, when president abbas not only refuses to recognize israel as the nation state of the jewish people, he embraces, he embraces hamas and outright calls for our destruction.

and when you have every territory that is vacated in the middle east taken over by the forces of militant islam, those led by iran or isis, i think you know that we better make sure that if we want a two-state solution, we don't get the opposite, that is a no-state solution, a no state of israel solution. and that, i think, requires that we work closely with our american allies because we both want the same thing, perhaps not exact same borders, but the same principles. i don't want a binational state. but if a palestinian state is created, it should not be used as a platform to annihilate the one and only jewish state. >> benjamin netanyahu, thank you for spending part of your passover holiday with us here on "meet the press." see you soon. >> thank you. i can tell you that those who work for israel's defense don't have a holiday. >> fair enough. thank you, sir. i'm joined by democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, who has been supportive of efforts to reach a

>> fair enough. thank you, sir. i'm joined by democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, who has been supportive of efforts to reach a deal with iran's senator. welcome back to "meet the press." let me ask you this. you heard prime minister netanyahu not obviously -- he wants to see a better deal. do you believe the united states should be negotiating for a better deal? >> well, i think we have a pretty remarkable deal on the table today. if you look at what our parameters were, at the outset, for negotiated agreement, you see the outlines of them right now. we have increased breakout time to a year. we have significantly rolled back their enrichment capability, we're dismantling the potential plutonium path at iraq and have an inspections

regime that is absolutely unprecedented. that will allow us to find a covert program if it exists outside of the known research facilities. the idea that we should just go back to the negotiating table and put back sanctions into place, i think that doesn't understand the reality that with this deal on the table it would have been hard to get our partners, especially russia and china, to go back to sanctions when most of our objectives were met at the negotiating table. it is easy to say that we just continue to negotiate and effectively sanction iran into submission. i don't think that that is the deal that the rest of our negotiating partners signed up for. and that's the reality that we have to deal with. >> senator what about the prime minister's point and frankly the point of others, we're not asking iran to stop supporting terrorism. we're not asking iran to change its behavior. we're about to hand them more resources and they have been doing nothing arguably but expanding their sphere of influence in the middle east. now you're giving them more money to do that by lifting the sanctions. and we didn't ask for a behavior change on anything other than

nuclear inspections. did we just ask for too little? >> well, it is true that this deal doesn't turn iran from a bad guy into a good guy. but it is a little bit rewriting of history to suggest these negotiations were about all of the other activities of iran in the region. we can start to lift up the moderate elements, within iran, the internationalists who want them to be sitting as a member of the world community so we can talk about all the other issues. it is also important to point out we have a host of other sanctions that are in place, trying to change their behavior on their ballistic missile program, on their human rights violation and on their support for terrorism. those sanctions don't go away. they stay in place and congress and the president reserves the right to increase those sanctions if they continue to undermine stability in the middle east, notwithstanding the progress we're making on the nuclear program. >> so you support, let me get this right, you support potentially increasing sanctions if you connected to their support, say, of the hujis in yemen but pulling back sanctions that are connected to the nuclear program.

>> we have sanctions in place that don't go away that are connected to other activities. i think congress always reserves the right to change our policy vis-a-vis iran if they continue to act in a way that they are and the rest of the region. absolutely we reserve our right to continue to try to use whatever leverage we have at our disposal to try to make them a less of an evil within that region. >> okay. but do you want -- as a compromise to get congress to potentially accept this nuclear deal, would you be willing to increase sanctions and other spots in iran to pull back in other places as part of the agreement, not to undermine the president's ability to negotiate this agreement? >> well, i don't know we need to talk about that right now. i think we should get through the nuclear negotiations. i think this will give us an opportunity potentially to talk to the iranians, either directly or through intermediaries, about solutions to other problems in

the region. you take this issue off of the table, you empower people like rouhani and zarif who may want a different role and you may see a pathway to solving some of these other problems and you can do it potentially without new rounds of additional sanctions. >> quickly, on another topic, the ranking member of the senate foreign relations committee, robert menendez, was indicted on corruption charges. he stepped down as ranking member, but "the new york times," a home newspaper for yourself in connecticut there, has called for senator menendez to resign from the senate completely. do you think senator menendez ought to consider a full resignation? >> i don't. i think our judicial system works in a pretty simple way. you're innocent until proven guilty. he's a respected member of our

caucus. he's not going to be the leader of the foreign relations committee any longer but he deserves a chance to be able to have his day in court before he's forced out of the united states senate. >> all right, senator chris murphy, democrat from connecticut, thanks for spending part of your easter sunday this morning with us here on "meet the press." >> thanks a lot, chuck. bobby jindal of louisiana joins me next. moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you, it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo. lease the well equiped volvo xc60 today. visit your local volvo showroom for details. e plane and thought... yeah! empty seat next to me. and then i saw him, slowly coming down the aisle. one of those guys who just can't stop talking.

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♪ those were pictures from pope francis, easter mass, attended by thousands of the faithful in vatican city. in honor of easter and passover, nerd screen has a bit of a religious theme to it, but you have to go to our website to see the whole thing. we looked at the connection between how often people attend religious services and their political leanings. it is much different than simply doing it by religious denomination. that and more can be found at meetthepress.nbc.com. after the break, bobby jindal and the religious freedom fight playing out in multiple states. "meet the press" brought to you by morgan stanley, where capital creates change. press.nb audible safety beeping

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this week, the debate over so-called religious liberty or freedom legislation in indiana and arkansas marked a new round of the culture wars with liberals, lgbt activists and big business wing of the republican party pitted against evangelical conservatives. this leaves republican hopefuls in a tricky situation. how to satisfy the evangelical base of the party without alienating more socially liberal general election swing voters. >> this bill is bipartisan, it is received overwhelming support in both houses, it protects religious freedom.

>> after a backlash from lgbt activists and business leaders and sports leaders and the public, republican governors in indiana and arkansas signed revised religious freedom legislation into law on thursday. the new language in indiana spells out that the law does not authorize a provider to refuse to offer or provide services on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. arkansas's new legislation mirrors a 1993 federal law signed by bill clinton, and will make it harder for private individuals or businesses to cite religious freedom as a way to avoid providing services for same sex weddings. social conservatives call the compromises a cave. >> it is the worst act of political malfeasance i've seen in my lifetime. >> the hypocrisy from corporate america is amazing to me. >> it is the latest skirmish in a battle between big business and social conservatives that is exposing fault lines within the republican party.

it is also forcing potential 2016 presidential candidates to do a tricky two step, avoid alienating evangelicals while also not appearing intolerant and scaring off general election voters. former florida governor jeb bush that two step this week and tripped. on monday, he praised indiana governor mike pence on conservative radio. >> i think once the facts are established, people aren't going to see this as discriminatory at all. >> but by wednesday, bush appeared to backpedal, telling donors in silicon valley, religious freedom is a core value of our country, but we shouldn't discriminate based on sexual orientation. so what the state of indiana is going to end up doing is probably get to that place. meanwhile, 2016 hopefuls eager to catch fire among social conservatives are seizing the opportunity to criticize their own party. >> fortune 500, and running shamelessly to endorse the radical gay marriage agenda over religious liberty -- a whole lot

of republican politicians are terrified. >> we have seen a lot of republicans run for the hills when the left comes out and starts to hammer. >> it won't stop until there are no more churches. >> all this is happening as americans grow increasingly comfortable with same sex marriage. the next fight may be in louisiana, the 17th state to introduce religious freedom legislation this year. i'm joined now by the republican governor of louisiana, bobby jindal. governor, welcome back to "meet the press." >> chuck, thank you for having me back. >> let me ask you this, do you agree with some other social conservatives that you think governors pence and governors hutchinson in arkansas and indiana have essentially caved to too much pressure? >> well, chuck, i was very worried about the law in indiana. i'm disappointed. let's remember when what this debate was originally all about. this was about business owners that don't want to have to

choose between their christian faith, their sincerely held religious beliefs and being able to operate their businesses. now what they don't want is the government to force and participate in wedding ceremonies that conflict their beliefs. they don't want to participate in those ceremonies. i was disappointed you could see christians and their businesses face discrimination in indiana. i hope the legislators will fix that, rectify that. it used to be a bipartisan consensus in this country around religious liberty saying that as americans, we don't have to agree with each other, but we should respect each other's rights and freedoms and that's what this debate is about, are we going to use government to force people to contradict their own sincerely held beliefs. >> the debate is on freedom and how you conduct yourself in a business. you think it is okay based on religious conviction for a business to deny services to a same sex couple? >> chuck, we're not talking about restaurants denying service to people who want to come and have dinner. we're not talking about day to day routine commercial transactions, we're talking about a specific example here of

business owners, musicians, caterers, who are forced to pay thousands of dollars or close businesses if they don't want to participate in a wedding ceremony that contradicts their wedding beliefs. i think part of the first amendment means we allow individuals to obey their conscience, their religious beliefs. >> as you know, this could end up on your desk. state representative mike johnson, in your state, filed a bill that will allow private businesses to refuse to recognize same sex marriage, according to the times picayune, should it become legal in indiana, we may find that out in june in the supreme court, the legislation would allow a private company to not offer the same benefits to legally recognized same sex married couples as other married couples. this is beyond just denying services as a business. this would be also denying benefits to an employee who happens to be in a same sex marriage. can you support a bill that does that? >> let me see the bill actually.

our session starts in a couple of weeks. i want to look at the bill. i'm in favor of defending religious liberty. you're raising issues regarding federal employment laws and benefit laws, let me look at the details of the bill. i am -- i am in general very supportive of defending religious liberties. we can do that without condoning discrimination. i don't think those two values are mutually exclusive. that's what this debate is about. we can have religious liberty without having discrimination. it is possible to have both. it is desirable to have both in our society. we immediate to remember this is not a new debate. the founding fathers recognize the importance of religious liberty, put it in the first amendment in a constitution, they anticipated some conflicts. they came down on the side of religious liberty. religious liberty is why we have the united states. we as a country didn't create religious liberty. religious liberty created our country. >> are you against the local

ordinance in new orleans that has a protection for lgbt citizens and it is from discrimination from housing and employment? >> i don't think certainly there should be discrimination against anybody in housing and employment. that's not what my faith teaches me. i don't think that's appropriate. i think the good news is our society is moving in a direction of more tolerance. my concern about creating special legal protections is historically in our country, we have only done that in extraordinary circumstances. and it is not -- it is not evident to me, doesn't appear where one of those moments today, i will say this, i think that there are many that turn to the heavy hand of government to solve society's problems too easily. i think that instead we need to be working with people in their hearts and minds. i have faith and confidence in the people in america and the people of new orleans and the people of louisiana to not tolerate discrimination, to not support businesses that want to support discrimination. so absolutely we need to have a society where we're not discriminating against people.

i do think we need to be very careful about creating special rights. >> so if the supreme court legalizes same sex marriage, you believe these laws, it will be legal -- legal in all 50 states come june, perhaps, but you believe these exceptions, businesses should be able to decide whether or not to serve these folks based on their religious convictions? >> well, again it not serving. i'm not saying a restaurant should be able to turn away a couple that -- >> that restaurant should not have to cater their wedding. >> if it is a sincerely held religious belief that it offends the owners beliefs to participate in that wedding ceremony, absolutely. i don't think the government should be able to force somebody to contradict their own sincerely held religious beliefs to participate in a wedding ceremony and that used to be a bipartisan consensus. that didn't used to be a bipartisan issue in our country. >> governor jindal, i'll leave that subject there. are you going to wait until after your legislative session to make a final decision on the presidential? >> i am, chuck. unlike many that are thinking

about running, it is not for me just about fund-raisers or consultants or pollsters, i've started thinking and been thinking for last several months about what the next president needs to be doing. i created a policy think tank called america next, putting out detailed policy papers on defense policy, on health care reforms, on energy policies, i think we need -- anybody thinking about running for president needs to think about what they need to do. we need big changes in this country. i think i'm the only one thinking about running that has come out with a detailed plan on how to replace and repeal obama care. i think voters are looking for potential candidates to answer the question, not just how do you get there what do you do if you got there? >> governor jindal, you make that decision, we hope to see you here on "meet the press." happy easter. >> thanks, chuck. happy easter. happy passover. thank you. let's bring in the panel, matt bai, helene cooper, amy walter, perry bacon. what did we learn from the republican party on this issue? >> lots of nervousness.

you saw mike pence, jeb bush, good politicians, people who won a lot of elections, all this week had to change and move their position on the issue and jeb bush in 48 hours. you learn the republican party always had the evangelical wing which focuses on abortion, gay marriages, versus the business wing. those groups are usually not in conflict. there is a real conflict this week and you saw the business part of it won and evangelicals are angry, this is a weakening of their movement more broadly. >> amy, i'll tell you, i've been hearing this for some time. they feel a lot of republicans pay them lip service and when the going gets tough, the first part of the republican constituency gets abandoned is evangelicals. >> ted cruz, you saw his strategy. here is the point. the tipping point has been reached and the tipping point is done, which is this is not an issue in which republicans can win.

they could a few years ago, can't now. even when you look at evangelical younger folks, they have moved on this issue too. so if we took everybody over the age of 50, and just moved them out of this country, this wouldn't be an issue at all. even for younger evangelicals. >> there is an idea. matt, i was just going to -- the republican party, though, better that they had -- having this debate now than in 2016, obviously. >> that is the definition of the bright side, yes. i agree with amy. i think it was a bad week for the republican party. i do on the large scale. i can see why it makes sense to go the route he's going, but as amy says, this corner -- the republican party where it found itself this week is behind the curve of this society, behind the curve of history. you saw that in the reaction of businesses who came out immediately because they understand where their markets have gone. i think for me political party

to find itself in that position is really problematic at this stage. >> pragmatism versus conviction. the problem is in a primary, those voters want conviction, they don't want pragmatism. >> you raised a perfect point with the primary. i think so much of this is about the primary versus the election. you saw a lot of politicians are more worried about the primary than i expected. jeb bush -- >> caveat here, i accused him of flip-flopping, their folks pushed back and said wait a minute, had he been allowed to explain himself further on hugh hewitt, he would have provided more context. they don't believe it is a flip-flop as we in the media portrayed it. >> you know how we in the media tend to portray things. >> fair enough. i think the jeb response is telling. you have silicon valley and we know where silicon valley is on this.

we know the entire california -- >> there was a time at which, we used to say this at the cook report when dividing the country into blue and red. starbucks america and walmart america have aligned. in the '80s it was democrats behind the curve on cultural and social issues. now it is republicans. they have to balance that. they can, but they got to figure out the right way to do it. >> if you're looking at the poll, the easiest thing do is look at where independents are. the two sides are so polarized, blue and red. when we come back, this easter sunday, cardinal timothy dolan of new york on balancing religious conviction and civil rights. welcome back. ♪

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it powers through tough, dried-on messes in seconds. even 48 hour stuck-on food. so go ahead, triple that recipe! a drop of dawn and grease is gone. welcome back. earlier this week i sat down with cardinal timothy dolan, the archbishop of new york, to talk about the intersection of religion and politics on this easter passover weekend. i began by pointing out a disturbing trend that seems more people are killing or dying in the name of god than at any time in recent memory. >> well, i say you're right. and i do think it is worse than it has been in centuries. and i think, to me, that only says we need easter more than ever. passover and easter are all about good, triumph, the goods triumph over bad. life's triumph over death and do we ever need that.

it is an amazingly tragic and poignant scandal that some would claim to use religion in the name of these atrocities. my boss, pope francis, has been extraordinarily articulate in reminding us that anyone who claims to use religion as a cause of hatred and division and bloodshed is perverting the role of religion. religion by definition is about bringing people together, affirming, it is about life, it is about life's triumph over death and do different than that is simply a perversion. and so religious people are suffering in numbers that we're not used to, and often it is who are perpetrators. people who claim to be acting on behalf of -- >> such a deep faith. in some ways scarily so. is it faith, is it passion? >> they have strong conviction, whether it is constant with the faith they profess, that we know is not truth. especially with the islamic fanatics, temperate voices of islam and thanks be to god there

are many would remind them they are not acting loyal to the teachings of the koran. what we say, though? we know from the human experience not just religion, we know that most battles, most bloodshed is caused by things that we feel passionate about. >> what did you think of president obama at the national prayer breakfast when he said this, unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember during the crusade and the inquisition people created terrible deeds in the name of christ and in our home country, slavery and jim crow all too often suffered in the name of christ. >> there are some that might have thought his remarks were off the mark. i would simply say as an historian and as a believer, sometimes it is not all that bad to remind ourselves that we are not free from sin and -- >> you saw it as -- >> as a leader to say that at that time when that was appropriate or not, but i

wouldn't say it was wrong. >> this religious freedom, debate we're having about religious freedom laws, and you have religious liberty, what does that mean? what should that mean and do you think people are perverting the definition? >> i welcome the fact that religious liberty, the question about religious liberty is in the forefront. we need that. we didn't put it there. we believers didn't put it there. the founders of our nation did. we got to make sure that the rights of conscience and religious ability to publicly exercise one's religion is balanced with another good, namely the rights of people not to be discriminated against. boy, that's a delicate balance. i'm grateful it has come to the -- that it is in the public eye. i sometimes wish -- whenever you talk, chuck, about a balance, which our constitution is a matter of balance, you got to

make sure that we keep that balance together. >> how do you balance religious conviction? >> it is tough to balance religious conviction. it is easy to ignore religious freedom than it is today the more popular issues. so in a way, i appreciate the fact that we have political leaders, like governor pence who were saying, whoa, wait a minute, without questioning the rights of the gay community, we also have to make sure that the rights of the religious community are protected. i just wish we could do that in a temperate civil way instead of screaming at each other. >> with passover, and easter being so close together -- >> sure. >> -- something extra significant about it? >> it is. it gives it an added wallop. and it gives us more credibility and more reason to celebrate. and it reminds us it is all about the same thing. it is all about winter ending and spring beginning. the death of winter behind us, and the new life of spring ahead of us, and that god is a god of spring, not winter. and life is always conquered death, hope is going to conquer despair, good is going to

conquer bad. that's what passover is all about. that's what easter is all about. that's what jesus was all about. that's what moses was all about. i don't know about you, you spend your life covering the world, i think we need that message more than ever. >> i don't know any better way to end this interview than with that, sir. >> happy easter. happy passover. >> cardinal dolan. cardinal timothy dolan of new york, easily one of the most optimistic people i've ever met. put me in, coach. i'm ready to play today. opening day is tomorrow. opening night is tonight and the new baseball commissioner, rob manfred, is on deck on "meet the press." moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you, it's everything to us.

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washington nationals, play ball! >> welcome back. that was me with my children, harrison and margaret, before the washington nationals playoff game last october, that 18-inning bummer for nates fans. baseball is back. i sat down with the new commissioner of baseball, rob manfred, and just about the coolest place possible, even if you're not a yankee fan, behind home plate at yankee stadium. and i started by asking him about a sport that is thriving on the local level, go nats, but increasingly struggling as a national sport. let's talk about the challenges you face. we were looking at tv ratings for a tremendous world series, baseball fan, an amazing world series. it had a rating that was -- that no -- the worst nfl game during

the week would have had a higher rating than the average rating in a world series game. what do you do about that? >> when you're talking about is a fragmentation of audiences that is an issue for all entertainment products. the good news is that i think in 11 of our markets last year, over the course of the summer, baseball was the number one rated program and there is tons of baseball available in those local markets. the challenge for us is to make sure that as we move into our post season, we don't lose that huge local fan base just because a particular -- >> that seems what happens. no doubt the local fans are all into their team and when they're out, they tune out. >> one thing we're working on, i think, kansas city last year is a great example. we're going to try to work with our national broadcast partners to develop story lines over the course of the year, that generate fan interest. >> let's talk about, you said yourself, getting the youth game more -- youth more involved in baseball is a priority for you because if they play, they'll follow it. my son is a great example.

he plays, he's obsessed. >> you're making me -- >> it is so -- i was reading this and it was so true. if they play, then suddenly they want to imitate, they want to do everything. >> it is interesting. the youth space and we really studied it and looked hard at it. it is a very competitive environment. i'm 56 years ole. when i was a kid, you played baseball in the spring, football in the fall, you played basketball in the winter. now kids have all sorts of choices. just a plethora of choices available to them. it is competitive. and our focus is try to form good partnerships in the youth space to try to get more kids playing. we have a great partner in little league. and we're working with a number of other groups to try to make sure that baseball is competitive in that space. >> let's talk about african-americans.

baseball, culturally, i think about the iconic moments i had just covering president obama and how many historical baseball memories he's brought in to talk about first african-american president, willie mays on air force one, what that meant to him. there is no doubt what baseball has meant culturally to america, diversification, african-american participation in baseball is now below the national average. what do you do? >> we have a number of programs in place that we're going to be expanding on as we go forward. we have a program called reviving baseball in the inner cities, a mass market program in areas where kids otherwise do not have an opportunity to play. we have a joint program with the mlbpa called the baseball tomorrow fund, huge problem in the inner city facilities. baseball tomorrow has built $10 million worth of youth fields in last decade. and maybe most important, our

clubs and partnerships with baseball have opened a number of urban youth academies, i had a chance to visit the one in washington earlier this spring. it is a fantastic program. an after school program that includes baseball, educational support, nutrition support, and through those sorts of programs we hope to attract more people, more african-americans back to the game. >> pete rose will have -- you have -- you're coming into this with a more open mind than the last commissioner, is that fair to say? >> let me say this, i was trained as a lawyer. i pay attention to documents and rules and constitutions. i think under the major league constitution mr. rose has a right to apply for reinstatement. he's done that. i think he deserves a fair, full hearing. and i'm not predisposed on the issue in any direction. >> sounds like you wish there were three choices, not two. >> well, i think it is hard to look at the issue and not separate the question of whether

someone who bet on baseball should ever be involved with play of the game on the field from the question of whether somebody ought to be in the hall of fame. >> you would like to be able to split that? >> second issue is not mine, right? it is a hall of fame rule. so it is not a question of what i would like. i have to focus on the institution i'm responsible for, which is major league baseball and protecting the integrity of that institution. >> you want to do -- you want to deal with it in order to improve, i think, the connection with the youth, youthful generation. you're trying to deal with pace of play issues. pitch clock coming? is this a reality? >> well, look, we engage in a very aggressive set of experiments in the arizona fall league including the pitch clock. the committee that was composed of people with literally decades of on field experience was split on the issue. some people said you put a clock in baseball, why would you want

to do that? interestingly, the entire committee, once they saw how the games in the arizona fall league went, were favorably inclined towards the pitch clock. so what do we do? we went forward. we're now testing in aa and aaa this year. i think whether it comes to the big leagues will be a product of how well the changes we did this year work. >> that was the new baseball commissioner, rob manfred. part of a new generation of commissioners like adam silver of the nba. i think they want to be problem solver and change agents. don't go anywhere. we'll be back in less than a minute with the "meet the press" endgame and what's next for a now indicted new jersey senator robert menendez. but to get from the old way to the new, you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile,

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you are so outta here! aah! [ female announcer ] the complete balanced nutrition of great-tasting ensure. 24 vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and 9 grams of protein. [ bottle ] ensure®. nutrition in charge™. >> announcer: time now for "meet the press" endgame, brought to you by boeing, where the drive to build something better inspires us every day. >> it is endgame time. panel is back. we had some news this week with robert menendez, now the 11th u.s. senator to be indicted for

actions while a senator. kay bailey hutchison was indicted as a senator but not for actions as a senator. john smith was the first of these 11, three resigned, four were convicted, two of those convictions were eventually overturned, only one pled guilty to the charges. amy walter, you watch the u.s. senator closely. bob menendez, you watch him very closely. any chance he takes the advice of "the new york times" and resigns? >> none. he's not a man who looks like he's ready to go. look, he got his start being basically a fighter in new jersey. fighting corruption in new jersey. there is no way i see he steps down. >> matt bai, i was surprised how new jersey democrats rallied around him. not many others, chris murphy gave him a robust defense earlier.

how long do you think democrats will be comfortable standing behind menendez? >> in new jersey, maybe for a while. do you get a jersey when you're number 11 indicted? >> not a banner. i don't think so. >> i don't think this says a lot, despite what the public says. i don't think this says a lot about the culture in the u.s. senate. i spent a lot of time in that state. i know you have. it is the way that money and friendships and politics intermingle. it is so many fifedomes. i think in new jersey he retain his support for longer because i think this is the way politics has historically been played. >> it is built in, an expectation. helene, one conspiracy theory out there by some critics of the president is menendez, probably the loudest critic of the president, that somehow this is all connected. you buy this theory, you buy the conspiracy? >> i don't. i think it is interesting. he's the biggest democratic critic. it hasn't muted him. on thursday -- one of the first e-mails i got, you know, as iran deal was announced, was from senator menendez, with -- he was

very -- he wasn't coming out completely against it at the time. but he was saying let's wait and see. we now -- congress needs to look at it. i don't know he's necessarily going to be muted on this. >> it is interesting. he had a longer response, perry bacon, to stick with iran. chuck schumer put out a statement and unlike what we were used to from senator schumer, not a verbose statement. it was two sentences. praising kerry for working hard and saying i'll take a look. >> you say a lot this week, republicans against the deal. >> all unified. >> democratic -- murphy was enthusiastic just now, but hillary clinton, schumer, a lot of democrats, i'll look at the details. one thing about menendez is that he's not going to be a ranking member anymore of the committee. that does matter when the hearings start. when you have ben cardman, much less hawkish than menendez, they're very opposed to the

president's views. >> if i'm bob corker, i'm trying recruit tim kaine to become the sponsor. >> going into the conspiracy theory for a minute, there is a republican governor of new jersey. so if he were to leave, would a republican be picked to replace him? >> temporary. >> but still important. >> will we have a new jersey senator serve a full successive term. >> they believe in giving everyone a chance. >> fair enough. before we go. i tell you, your colleague over at "the new york times," there is something about him, he gets an interview with someone, like harry reid, he has fascinating quotes with adam nogurney. he said this about women in power. women are much more patient. they can be if pushed the wrong way, combative, but they are not combative. a lot we men are combative just by nature. does he have it right? >> this is the first time i

think i might miss harry reid. he's coming out quite feisty all of a sudden. >> he made no apologies. no apologies about the false story about mitt romney. basically making something up. he said, well, we won. that is sort of the lbj school, make him deny it. >> he still has the support of all of his colleagues in doing that. democratic colleagues, of course, in doing that. so of course he's going out as we should expect from a guy with -- >> matt bai, he also said this about why jeb bush is the easiest to beat, it is all about george w. bush and he said how can his brother jeb get away from that? i'll take clinton baggage over that any day. only harry reid, i'll take that. first clinton baggage.

i'm sure hillary is going, great, thanks, harry. >> harry reid is a rare thing. he's a western -- a real western democrat. not a coastal democrat, a western democrat. and -- >> that means what? shoot from the hip? >> a little bit more plain spokenness and more bluntness. i think they'll miss it. i do. he hasn't always been a great messenger for the party but he said things nobody else wanted to say. >> he always says -- he's always very honest and candid in a way that reporters can enjoy. >> i go back to mitt romney, that was bad. he made up a -- he passed on a rumor. >> the comment he made about clinton, he says things he shouldn't say often in an entertaining way. >> happy easter. happy passover. thank you for being here. that's all for today.

we'll be back next week. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> it's a disgrace. disgraced her family. me, you. after asking a friend to kill his wife. he looks satisfied that his wife needed to be eliminated. >> and in new york, a mother of four tries to hire a hit man to stage a deadly accident involving her husband.