there was some talk he might not even come. he did. he did not speak, but hi silent presence there gave guidance to what his son said. i agree with you. i think rand paul said all of the proper things about iran. he said all the proper things about radical islam.

he said all the proper things about congress being allowed to, being required by law to sign off on whatever deal is done with iran, but separate from iran, i think you're right. i think he really sought to give himself the credentials to be a guy who said, sure i'm for a strong defense, but i'm for a sensible one, and not no fashion building. don't forget, chris, that george w. bush said the same thing. >> yeah. >> when he was running for president in 200, and of course it didn't work out that way. it was just the opposite. i think rand paul is here to tell the republican party and the country, this time he means it and we mean it, and it's going to be one of the big fault lines, if not the big faultline in the republican campaign to come. i agree with you about that. >> what about this ad campaign, rick reed, the same people on -- that put together the swiftboating of john kerry back in 2004. you have people who seem to be afraid of this guy.

does he have the firepower that the war hawks, the old piggish money we called it in the '60s, this dark money pouring into this campaign to run against them. are they afraid he might just win the nomination or might change the debate? what are they afraid of? >> i guess they don't want to take any chances. it's fascinating. rand paul is running a general election campaign at the beginning of the primary season. he's running an anti-establishment, antibig government, almost '60s style campaign. he's against the sim, against both pairs. he's against washington. hits slogan is defeat the washington machine, and of course the washington machine since 2001 ha a war-making machine. there was an amazing echo of the '60s, chris, you and i are old enough to remember that, it was against the system with a capital "s kgs tenor.

it might not work at all with all the other microforces in iowa, but he's going to big. it's not going to work at all, or work in a way that the establishment and dark money don't want to see happen. he's kind of a loose atom that could break up the usual course of chemistry in american politics. that's probably why they're worried about him. >> well said, howard fineman. thanks for coming in. >> thank you. >> couldn't have had a better witness down there than you. the same right-wing group that engineered the swiftboat attack on john kerry, is trying to torpedo rand paul. the group refusing to declare its donors, spending a million in dark money on a smear ad they stay will run 80 to 90 times every day in very early primary states and caucus states.

here's some of that spot. >> rand paul sports obama's negotiation with iran, but he doesn't understand the threat. >> you know, it's ridiculous to think that they're a threat to our national security. >> rand paul is wrong, and dangerous. tell him to topsiding with obama, because even one iranian bomb would be a disaster. >> well, as i said, here's the people behind that ad. the republican strat cyst rick reed who ran the swiftboat ad says bloomberg news reports -- he was the architect of the veterans for truth campaign that attacked jauron kerr re ace record, and here is dallas woodhouse on fox news today with his advice on how rand paul can prove his foreign policy bona fides. >> it may not be fitting the world as a lot of people see it.

he's got to prove in my opinion, that he will nuke a muslim country if we have to. >> he will nuke -- nuke -- drop a nuclear weapon or more than one on islamic country. that's the new standard according to the crazy right, and i'm being nice. david axelrod, senior adviser to president obama, and michael 1250e8, both msnbc political analysts. hold on there, michael. the party seems to be generally hawkish, they always are, they want to protect their property here, but why -- does rand paul have a prayer of being an old-style libertarian that 4re9's do it in america? >> i think he does, and i think it goes to a bit of what how should said previously. i listened to that section of the speech on foreign policy very careful. what i took away was a hawk with common sense.

he's not out here saying we're not going to engage in the world, we're not going to protect the interests of the united states, but we are going to apply common sense to those situations, which you hoe he tried to distinguishes himself from barack obama? type of rhetoric about drops a nuclear bomb, americans don't want to hear that. i don't care what your sometime is. at the end of the day i really don't believe the american people think that will solve or problem. >> do you think they'll take offense? >> you have a billion-some people saying you want to nuclei grandmother? so the idea is bringing common sense to this long debate. chris, note this. before we got into this new phase of hawkishness, rank-and-file republican were moving away, battle weary, very much concerned about the buildup and the spending in the defense

area, so i think there's a space for him to engage the conversation. he unfortunately will have to deal with some of this up-front. >> david, the ironies keeping building up. the walk war stance as history, and people on the hard right don't want to admit it's still there, but when he use this hitler/munich thing, they don't admit that the says czechoslovakia, the 21st century is iraq, the country we gave them in the iraq war. we turned it over to the shia and their militias. certainly not the liberals and the democrats, but the crazy right-wingers. your thoughts? >> well, many of the same voices that we hear now and who are behind this ad and some of these attacks are some of the same people who urged us into iraq in the first place. i was with obama back in 2002 when he was a state senator

running for the senate. he said his concern was that the war what unleash sectarian strife, lead and would make us the target of extremism in that region. all of that came true. now these same folks, having been so wrong about that are wrong again, and rand paul deserves cried to the degree he's willing to stand up. here's the problem he has, chris. >> sure. >> you have to hold your position. he signed the tom cotton letter that was a torpedo aimed right at the heart of those talks on the iranian nuclear program. he wanted to cut the defense budget, now he wants to add to the defense budget, so on, so he has to decide. he's been a little promiscuous in his pronouncements, and now that he's a candidate -- >> do you think he's covering himself? >> i think he is. i think he's been a bit of a contortionist.

you're not going to get away with that as a candidate. he's going to be held to a higher level of scrutiny and it would be more difficult. >> senator paul also hasn't been afraid to take on the neocons. here he is in 2009. >> when the iraq war started halliburton had a billion no-bid contract. some of the stuff has been so shoddy, and so sloppy that our soldiering who are over there dying in the shower from electric roe cougs. dick cheney used to work for halliburton, next thing you know, he's back in government and it was a good idea to go back to iraq. it became an excuse. >> so that's the kind of talk i hear in my crowd. halliburton, he's a war profitteer, and here he is to a bunches of -- look at the millennial vote.

does very well among younger people. >> and reflective of a voice that's largely been stilled or silent in the gop. it's not a lurching back into the past and that approach. i think what rand paul is looking to find is a new space, and the difficulty he's going to have to deal with these kind of swiftboat ads that peg and defining his philosopher. you're either an isolationist or a hawk. guess what? that's not how the world is shape. >> i think he's much more comfortable in the robert taft wing, but can you make your point. david, last thought. >> what you could do, michael is take two -- you can't be diametrically opposed. you can't be for cotton and the talks in the iran. you want to get kids, but you're a climate change denier.

these are the problems -- these are the circle he's going to have to square here in this campaign and it's going to be tough, i think. >> you can't be buffalo bob and bates motel at the same time thank you both. trying to major are make sense. the lobbying campaign on the iran deal. president obama is trying to keep democrats in his corner, of course, but he may have lost a big one. chuck schumer called for giving congress the power to reject the agreement. and tonight hbo's john olive gets tough on edward snowden. and hillary clinton gets very close to her big announcement. we think it's within a week. and carole king will join us on the roundtable. before that russell crowe is the director and star of a new movie about the war that created the middle east that we face today. finally let me finish with the appeal of rand paul. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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well, senator john mccain is planning to run for reelection in 2016. the five-term republican from arizona told nbc news he's more than ready for another campaign. he's frequently criticize the president obama on foreign policy, and he has a lofty perch from which to do it. same thing as chairman of the senate armed services committee which he now chairs. and we'll be right back.

welcome back to "hardball." the president continued his push to sell the deal for iran, which he says is the best chance to keep that country from getting a nuclear weapon. >> currently the breakout sometimes are only about two to three months by our intelligence estimates. so we're essential purchases for 13, 14, 15 years assurances that the breakout is at least a year. it's a hard argument to make that we're better off having almost no breakout period, than

saying over the course of 15 years, we have very clear assurances they're not going to do anything. well, republican leaders have strongly criticized the deal of course so far mitch mcconnell sets the parameter established an internationally recognized nuclear research and development program. house speaking john boehner said it's clear this deal is a direct threat to peace and security of the region and the world. tom cotton called it a complete capitulate. here he is. >> there is no deal framework with iran. there's only a list of very dangerous concessions that will put iran on the path to nuclear weapon. this is a complete capitulation, a sad day for our country and for the hope of world peace. >> the white house is also expressing efforts by bob corker to force an iran deal to get approval from congress. politico reports that at least a

dozen democrats support that move, including leaders like chuck schumer in new york. that means it's klee to a vetoproof majority for senators who saying we in congress decide this thing. is it a way to find a way to kill the deal? that's a great question. i'm join by senator chris murphy, and "new york times" reporter peter baker. senator, do you think those in your caucus, especially that accident or so. do you think they're voting to kill this deal, or just to exercise congressional prerogatives? >> well, i think there's an appropriate hangover still from the iraq war in which congress feels guilty that we didn't oversee the conduct of foreign policy by the president. so congress wants to get back in the meantime game. i don't think the democrats supporting the bill want to kill the deal. i think they are trying to set this new precedent by which congress will weigh in on

matters of foreign policy. my quibble is just about timing. i think there may be a time and place to weigh in, about you if our negotiators are telling you if we pass a bill now, we are less likely to see a final agreement that we can vote up or down on, i don't know why we would move forward given that admonition. there may be a time and a place for congress to weigh in on the nuclear agreement, but if our negotiators are telling us we're undermining them by doing it now, i don't see the real reason to rush. >> wouldant a vote by the congress reinforce the letter sent by tom cotton and other senators to the ayatollah that said don't trust a deal made by the president, because it will be written in disappearing ink and could be taken back? if you have a vote, it seems that you're saying, yeah, it's not his to say. >> you can look at it as an effort to undermine negotiation, but look at it as fairly innocuous. in that it essentially says that congress has the right and able

to vote on a deal once it's inked. you don't have to pass a bill now to tell congress it has the way to weigh in on a negotiated deal once it's done. there's an argument to be said that passing the corker bill today isn't that big a deal, because congress still has the ability to way in, and frankly i hope we have the maturity to wait, given the fact that we still have the ability to take a vote if and when we ever get to a final negotiated agreement. >> the israeli government, of course, netanyahu leads that government. other critics are ramping up to kill this deal. here is the prime minister himself on "meet the press" this weekend. let's watch bibi. >> i think this is a dream deal for iran and it's a nightmare deal for the world. i think the real problem in the middle east is not the democracy of israel that has shown restraint or responsibility, but it's cunning like iran that

pursue nuclear weapons with the explicit goal first of annihilating us, but also ultimately of conquering the middle east and threatening you. >> it sounds like you would want the u.s. to kill -- is that what you would like them to do? >> i would like the united states and the other members of the p-5 plus one to get a better deal. you can ratchet you have the sanctions. peter baker, it seems like he does what a lot of politicians do. you have a strong position, but you don't want to unsheath it. but there he is against, in notion of conquest, that iran is basically hitler, they'll conquered the middle east the way hitler conquered continental europe. it seems he does want to kill the deal. what's your assessment here? >> it's interesting, you know, the day after he made those remarks to chuck todd, his minister of intelligence gave out a list in jerusalem of here are the things we think you

ought to add to this deal. these are conditions that will probably never be accepted. they definitely go much further that is the american negotiators and the european and russian and chinese negotiators have been able to get out of the iran. what's interesting about it is it was the first time they laid out concrete specifics that went beyond simply saying no enrichment, no program whatsoever. it doesn't mean there's going to be an agreement, but it does suggest they are bargaining at the same time they are probably to, as you say, see if they can't kill it altogether. >> he is a man of the right, he he is setting newer, higher standards. he wants full recognition of israel, as a jewish state, a jewish state. he wants them to say that. now he's saying he wants iran in the paper today, he wants iran to recognize established diplomatic relations as sort of a side deal here. it seems to me, that he's really

demanding a lot here, if this is a worthy contract -- or a deal we're trying to make. he's making it harder to make one. >> you heard that from republicans in congress as well, a rewriting of history to say we are renegotiating with iran right now, but also their support for terrorism, the ballistic missile programs, the fact is we have sanctions that will hold against iran on all of those other things, and of course there is this very valued argument that there's a fight happening inside iran right now, between the moderates who want to negotiate and the hard-liners. if the mod rats win it will be easier theoretically to come to the table and work on these other shies ubs but to go back and say we're not going to enter into a nuclear agreement unless they give us side deals, that's just not why we enter into these negotiation in the first place and we should just at mitt that. >> thank you both. up next, russell crowe will

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are you not entertained? are you not entertained? is that not why you were here? [ chanting ] >> great scene. welcome back to "hardball." he defeated adver searses in "gladiator" cracked codes in "a beautiful mind" and dominated the seas in -- and now he has a "water diviner" said 100 years ago in the aftermath of world war i, it's about a father's request to find his sons who went missing in action in galipoli.

here's a clip. >> not swimming? >> no. what are you doing with your farmer? >> a supply ship babb to constant nopele in tuesday. >> may have we have a chance to help. i know the area. >> we both know it, but he can't stay put. >> because he's the only father who came looking. i'm joined right now by russell crowe, director and star, as you saw of "water diviner".

>> good evening, chris. >> this is about the beginning of really all the trouble we've had in the middle east. it's about the original design after world war i, the ottoman empire carved up by churchill and the rest of them. there are trying to save your sons who got killed in a that disastrous campaign. >> it's a big journey that joshua goes on, particularly in that time period. there's no easy way of getting from australia to turkey at that point in time. there's no other way of communicating. think about the moror people must have gone through at that stage. their sons leave, go off to war, and, you know, very seldom will they have any communication until they find out that they're either not survived or survived and the war is over. >> i heard late today, in getting ready for this, that until world war i, there was no expectation of getting a body back. if you got killed in a war, you were thrown in a mass grave.

that's how they handled it. one big deep bloody hole as they used to say. not just the men, but horses, mules whatever else was killed. >> australia i always think of somewhat the better american times mow cowboyish, more american at times, yet had this history of being treated as a colonial -- you guys fought -- you weren't sent -- >> you didn't get to vote on it. >> all those men were volunteers. the british government and the australian government reached an agreement of federation in 1900, australia became independent, new zealand around the same time, so the significance of this battle is the first time they're fighting under their own flag, but every single man in that force, in that expeditionary force was a volunteer. >> i've seen so many movie and this historic resentment against

the brits. >> the history resentment against the brits as well. >> they were fighting for the king and country, and they got killed and slaughtered. >> yeah, but the nature of how they died and the numbers that died, i think it was all a massive and like a emotional affecting surprise. as i said, society gathered around and said if you're young and able, you have to go and defend the motherland. >> yeah. >> and encourage -- >> did you get respect? i sense in the movie seeing it today that your character, the father, joshua connor goes over just to try to get his three sons' bodies back to take them back to australia, and you weren't getting treated that well by the brits there. >> there's four british characters, and i think there's a balance. you're probably speaking more specifically about the character

of captain bri dpismt ley, and he knows the impossible task that joshua has put in front of himself, to go into a beat four years cold, for what essentially can only be bones, you know, to his mind, to brindley's man, he was just getting in the way. i don't decry his attitude. i understand it, but he doesn't arrest joshua. he actually ends up buying him a ticket home. he takes him -- or wants to take him to that boat under guard. >> he took away his passport. >> i think he's being about as decent a man as he can be in the position he's in. but i think the best soldier on display, for example, is lieutenant graves, and he's the guy who brings the turkish officers to the post-war battlefield. you see him acting in, you know, the most strict ways, as a

soldier. the other character, you have the young leftennant, and there's definitely a balance. war affects obviously people in very many different ways, but if you have that jolt of brindley, and a man like joshua came into yare realm, you would probably want to stop that whole idea of a civilian exploring the -- >> could you repeat the words you spoke at the academy award when you won best actor for gladiator and how you paid tribute to your director? >> we were just chatting about that. it's funny, when you look at the footage -- >> give me the performance. i award this performance to one bloke, ridley scott. >> if you watch that footage, i list all these other people. somebody told me i thanked 25 people in that speech, and i don't say him. you can see him getting more and more despondent, thinking i had forgotten about him, but i'm

actually platforming. >> building toward the great conclusion. it's an honor to meet you. >> cheers, mate. up next, john olive makes edward snowden squirm, and everyone is waiting for hillary to make her move. the very political and singer/songwriter carole king will join us tonight.

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south carolina has been charged with murder following a traffic stop and shooting on saturday. bystander video provided to "new york times" shows the police officer firing on the apparently unarmed black man as he fled the scene.

[ gun shots ] >> that shooting occurred on saturday just moments after a struggle between those two men. the police officer says that he feared for his life. the victim walter scott was shot five times, as you can see in that video. he leaked classified documents to the media on the government's domestic surveillance program. oliver confronted snowden about his knowledge of those documents and the possible harmful consequences of his actions. >> how many of those documents have you actually read? >> i have evaluated all the of 9

documents that are in the archives. >> you've read every single one? >> well, i do understand what i turned over. >> there's a difference between understanding what's in the documents and reading what's in the documents. >> i recognize the concern. >> because when you're handing over thousands of nsa documents, the last thing you want to do is read them. >> in my defense, i'm not handling anything anymore. that's been passed to journalists and they're using extraordinary security measures to make sure this is reported in the most responsible way. >> "new york times" took a slide, didn't redact it properly, and in the end it was possible for people to see that something was being used in mosul on al qaeda. >> that is a problem. >> well, that's a [ bleep ]. >> it is a [ bleep ], and these things do happen. in journalsism we have to accept some mistakes will be made. this is a fundamental concept of lib better. >> but you have to own that then. you're giving documents with information you know could be

harmful, which could get out there. >> yes. well, joining the roundtable, i'm there would to be joined by political activist and legendary singer/songwriter carole king. jonathan capehart and susan milligan. he did let some stuff out that may have hurt us. >> i come down on the side of he's not a hero. i see him as somebody who was very careless. he had a point to make. i pont i think needed to be made that we need to look at this and have a debate, but i don't think he did it in a wise way or a helpful way. >> i agree with carole. i've written about this many times. people like to compare hem to elsburg who leaked the poej papers. he never left the country.

in fact he turned himself in in boston. he stayed in the country, allowed himself to be held accountable for his actions. he was a man of principle and a man of conscience. edward snowden, every interview i have seen him give, he has this sort of smug entitlement -- >> what about the -- i'm glad of brought elsburg up, he was giving out a report that should have gotten out. it was made to be reported. >> and elsburg had worked on it. he thought the country needed to know. it was a targeted release, and he accepted the consequences for it. what snowden did was this wholesale document dump and got on a plane and left the country like a coward, and now is presenting himself as this hero. 4th wallace ton a julian assange. >> this is always tricky, the question of how much truth do we have, and how slop -- it was a great john paul sarte, we don't alleges do what, but we are

responsible for everything. that's a grownup position. 150 people were killed, mostly christian students murdered in kenya, by four members, four people of the extreme islamic group al shabaab. now they're fighting back, and kenya's army spokesman said the bombings are part of a continued process, which will go on. might be while survivors are speaking out about their terrifying experience inside that school during the attack. here's one survivor's account. you know, i have great feeling -- i spent a lot of time in kenya, hanging around in mombassa, nairobi.

you know, i have great feeling -- i spent a lot of time in kenya, hanging around in mombassa, nairobi. i was in the peace corps hitchhiking around there. this is like athens against sparta. it's a good country. it's not a milling tear state. they don't spend time marching around in uniform and next to somalia. >> i've visited kenya gosh more than ten years ago in nairobi, walked around a reporter, went to the largest slum in subis a hairen -- >> my wife and daughter have been there working for an orphanage.

>> it takes your breath away with the deprivation. what kenya has been going through, with the bombings that happened there, not like somalia, but terrorist attacks have been happening there. it's a terrible time. >> why are they hitting kenya? what's the point? they kill modern shopping mall, which looks like one here, a university, probably the first in their generation to get to go to university, a chance to go to modernity. they must hate them, the somalians. >> sure, they hate that, about you why is it happening there? why is terrorist action happening there? why are terrorist actions happening in all of these quote/unquote unlikely places? it's because folks don't like what those kids represent. they don't like what the west represents, and think will do anything and everything they can for try to destroy it in their eyes, but i think, as we're all

saying, we're still standing, despite the terrorist actions, we're all still standing. >> i'm rooting for this guy. i'm rooting for him. his country is under asolid. >> and the president is partnering with people in this endeavor, and, you know, there is a strategy, there is a comprehensive strategy that the president has, which is an antiterrorism campaign, but it's not anything you can sort of base on past military. >> he's also going over there. that's a big deal. i hope he doesn't call that trip off in july. that's a statement. >> it would be a statement either way. i wondered myself when this happened, i wondered if that was an effort to try to keep him away. >> we have other friends in the world in the middle east. i hope we can stand by them. i mean it. the roundtable is staying with us. we're on high alert for hillary.

we've had heard thursday, i think next tuesday is more reliable, which is equal payday, which would make sense symbolically. we'll be right back after this. come on out, flo! [house band playing] you have anything to say to flo? nah, i'll just let the results do the talking. [crowd booing] well, he can do that. we show our progressive direct rate and the rates of our competitors even if progressive isn't the lowest. it looks like progressive is not the lowest! ohhhh! when we return we'll find out whether doug is the father. wait, what?

tomorrow candice bergen will be with us. dan quayle went after candice bergen for having a baby without a husband. that's tomorrow on "hardball."

>> yes, if she runs. >> it's up to here, susan, is that the ground rule.

are you allowed to say that? >> i know she tried to be the inevitable candidate. >> but she is not thinking like that. >> what is going to be with you from the mark penn effort? >> i think this time, look, there is no question she is highly qualified to be president of the united states. we don't know if she can successfully run a campaign. >> what is more important? being able to run or get the job? >> you have to run to get the job. >> sort of, but the inevitability thing was a problem in 2008 because she didn't plan for after super tuesday. this go around she is making it clear she wants to connect with

every day people to show that she is humble enough to ask someone -- >> carol? >> in listening to her -- >> it will start next week again. >> that's what she did in new york. when you talk about her running a successful can pain, she ran two and i think she did really well. i think she will be who she is, and she is a wonderful personal. >> this is true of a lot -- i think she is one of the real 180 sdilgss. she is happy, upbeat, trusting. and when she gets on television like a lot of politicians, they get formal. is that a -- is a professional woman now forced to be -- formality is important. >> you were around for the 92 campaign. you know what she was put through and she becomes guarded. she doesn't need to be guarded because she doesn't say stupid

things when you're on the phone with her. there is no reason to put her in a situation where she has to watch everything that comes out of her mouth. i think that what will be different is in 2008 she didn't want to run as the female candidate. >> how about running openly as a grandmother, is that part of it. >> did you say our generation. >> i'm older than her and everybody here, i'll say that, but i know from experience that the word grandmom is not grabbed on to. >> it is absolutely what we need. if you saw that picture, that was me and my daughter and my granddaughter with hillary. and that speaks to what the mull pi generation -- >> and you're very comfortable in your kin. jonathan kapart. you're the only guy here, and it is very tough here right now.

when we return, let me finish with the appeal. i'm saying this, my friends on the left, of rand paul, he has an appeal. don't kid yourself. and you on the right, tough. >> let me finish tonight with and restores tooth enamel. it's an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. listerine® total care. one bottle, six benefits. power to your mouth™.

is there such a thing as a sure thing in business? some say buy gold. others say buy soybeans. i say, buy comcast business internet. unlike internet providers that slow down when traffic picks up, you get speed you can rely on. it's a safe bet. like a gold-plated soybean. reliably fast internet starts at $69.95 a month. comcast business. built for business. >> let me finish tonight with the appeal of rand paul. i can see why people of both parties are going after this guy. he is a danger to conventional politics in this country. he challenged government intrusion in our lives and is

willing to challenge america's intrusion into foreign countries including nation building. on an electoral level, i think people should observe his ability to win races. he killed jack conway by a dozen points. he has an appeal at home. is he a true libertarian. he is against nsa surveillance and drones, but not so quick. on social issues we see him buying into the conservative republican line. here is where it is tricky. he didn't like the 1964 civil rights bill. so where does that put him on this religious freedom restoration act. can they do business with someone the owner doesn't want to do business with? can it, senator?

how libertarian is rand paul. that is "hardball" for now, "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on "all in." police officer charged with murder after a video shows him shooting a fleeing man in the back. we'll have the latest on this still breaking story. then -- we have come to take our country back. >> then there were two, rand paul declares for president. >> is there where we light up the phones? >> tonight sis campaign against the washington machine is already in trouble. >> he has to prove that he will nuke a muslim country if we have to. >> meet the republican lawmaker banning food stamps on cruise ships. and my meeting with an activist that is protesting drilling in the arctic. >> good evening from new york, a