far tougher appropriately than you would get in almost any other western nation. >> barney frank and alan dershowitz, thank you both for this incredible conversation tonight. thank you. crime and punishment. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. two big stories tonight. one, the verdict in the boston marathon bombing. the other, a police shooting in south carolina. also tonight, my interview with murphy brown and hillary's relationship with two presidents, bill and barack. let me start tonight with the arrest of a police officer in north charleston, south carolina, michael slager has been charged with murder for his shooting of what appears to be an unarmed african-american man saturday morning. part of the incident was caught

on tape. police say it started when officer slager pulled 50-year-old walter scott over for a broken taillight. officer slager then chased scott into an open area, a field. a lawyer for the officer said the two men then struggled over his taser. well, the following was caught on tape by a bystander. a warning, by the way, to our viewers. this video is disturbing. [ gunfire ] well, the officer there fired eight shots of that fellow, five of which hit him. he then radioed in the following. >> shots fired, subject is down. he grabbed my taser. >> well, according to the video, slager then walked over and handcuffed scott. we'll watch what happens after that. slager jogs over to where the struggle takes place and then picks something off the ground. let's watch it all.

>> and very shortly after that, another officer arrives and then slager returns where scott is lying there handcuffed, dropping an object onto the ground at that point near the body of scott or he's dying at that point. watch closely. well, today, south carolina leaders from both political parties are praising ate rest of that officer. the mayor of north charleston met privately with the scott family and today walter scott's father and mother spoke out about their son's death in that disturbing video. >> the way i saw it on the film, the way he was shooting that

gun, it looked like he was trying to kill a deer or something running through the woods. >> when i looked at that tape, that was the most horrible thing i've ever seen. i am very, very upset concerning it. i almost couldn't look at it. to see my son running defenselessly and shot, it just tore my heart to pieces. >> well, i'm joined right now by u.s. congressman james clyburn of south carolina. you've been through a lot in your life. what is this about? i don't get it. in every police show we watch, you never see a police officer shooting after a guy who is running away. they race after them, try to subdue them, tackle them with the least amount of physical force and here we have a guy just shooting away and a guy who is an older man, he's not a young guy, he's not running that fast. just shooting him eight times.

>> yeah. chris, thank you so much for having me. let me, once again, say how much i appreciate the scott family, the way they have responded to this. they are just the salt of the earth. i don't know exactly where this event occurred, but they are my constituents and i really appreciate them a whole lot. i also want to thank the mayor of north charleston, the chief of police for responding so quickly and so forcefully and i think appropriately to this event. chris, you said that i've had a lot of experiences in my life. you know, i've said to you, all of them have been pleasant but all of them i consider to be blessings. and i have been blessed growing up in south carolina with good people like the scotts.

i've also been blessed with knowing good people like the elected officials that are speaking out on this. i spoke earlier today with the governor. in fact, on monday, i did the ribbon cutting with mayor summey. i know the chief. and i'm not surprised that they reacted so quickly and so forcefully. but the problem we've got is that a climate has been created in the country that's causing these things to occur all over. and chris, i know i get a lot of criticism of this from some of my friends but this so-called american legislative -- whatever they call that group -- >> alex -- >> -- they have drawn up these legislations, pieces of legislation like stand your

ground, that legislation gives a license for people to be vigilantes. they are the ones that are drawing up all of these so-called voter i.d. laws. they are the ones that have been drawing up these unfair redistricting plans. these people are a cancer eating at the inners of our society. and it's time for our elected officials to start speaking out about this because the climate that's being created is not a good climate. and that's why you have these rogue police officers feeling they have a license to do what they want to do and there will be no consequences pay it forward. and i think that's the mindset of this police officer. >> thank you very much. u.s. congressman james clyburn, a lot of respect for you. thank you for coming on tonight. i'm joined by chief val demings and jim cavanaugh.

he's an msnbc contributor. chief demings, give me the rules on shooting a fleeing felon. what are the rules in police discipline? what are you supposed to do if a guy runs away from you? whatever the reason that caused it? what are your rules? >> chris, thank you so much for having me. this is an unbelievable case but prior to 1985, police had the authority to stop a fleeing felon by using any force necessary, up to and including death. but after 1985, the court decided that giving law enforcement the ability to use deadly force to stop all felons was constitutionally inappropriate or unreasonable. therefore, wrong. and the laws changed and therefore the policies changed. when i look at that video, i

can't help that -- anyone's heart would go out to the family so we grieve for the family but we also grieve whenever the badge is tarnished and i know good law enforcement officers out there trying to do good things knows how i feel. when you watch the video, it's pretty clear and convincing that mr. scott posed no threat to mr. slager. and even if he did wrestle with mr. slager for the electronic control device, he obviously lost because the device was certainly not in his hands when he was running away. so clearly the south carolina department of law enforcement acted swiftly, as they should have, because the evidence was pretty painfully clear in this case. >> jim, your views. let's bring in the taser. this is a homemade picture, a video, maybe done from a cell phone. we're looking at what looks to be an officer who goes back to maybe where the scuffle occurred

and drops something on the ground and picks something up. what is going on there? can you tell? >> chris, what i think he's doing here with the only caveat if the officer told the homicide detectives when they arrived that the taser had been at the other location where the first scuffle ensued, that would alleviate and short of that he's trying to control the crime scene shooting. there's a traffic stop that's off camera and then the two men encounter each other and the taser, you can see the wire is deployed so the officer shot the taser. it's a one-shot weapon. you can be used as a contact weapon as well even after it's the one shot. but he drops it and it apparently it drops and like chief demings says, this makes you sick, shooting a man in the back like this. the only person and imminent threat of death and the officer

goes back and gets the taser and appears to drop it there as if to say he was carrying it. this officer -- you know, he's in big legal troubles. the first attorney is gone now. he's going to have a real hard time. cold-blooded murder on video. plus, mr. scott shot in the back. unlike chief demings, it's a bad day for mr. scott's family and for every american to watch this and a super bad day for law enforcement. if this guy did this in a no shoot training, we would have thrown him out the back door. >> let me go to chief demings. back to you in a minute, jim. it seems to me, we've been covering these cases white cop or white individual, a vigilante in one case shooting an african-american guy, younger

than this fellow in most cases, and it's become iconic in the most possible way. here's a police officer. doesn't that officer have in his head that he's about to become part of an iconic, horrible event? or is there such a pattern of white on black violence of this kind that it can't stop even when it's exposed as dramatically as it's been exposed in the last couple of years? it's incredible that this has happened. and here it does happen -- and someone is there taping him. thank god he's there taping him. but how can the same almost habitual behavior occur again and again when it's exposed. we would like to think once it's exposed it would stop happening. >> good, hardworking decent police officers who do this job every day 24 hours a day seven days a week, they have two very powerful tools, chris, and i'm not talking about anything that they carry around their waste.

they have the authority to enforce the law and they have discretion and obviously mr. slager utilized both in an inappropriate way. i'm tired of it, too. i know america is tired of it but just like in any profession, you have bad apples who, unfortunately, go to work and do the wrong thing. that's exactly what happened in south carolina. the decisions didn't take 180 days to make. the south carolina department of law enforcement acted swiftly, as they should have, and i think that justice in this case has been served. but this is really just the beginning. and kind of back to the handling of crime scenes, regardless of what the officer or mr. slager picked up or dropped, procedure is you secure the crime scene, you don't disturb the evidence and you wait until the crime scene technician gets there to process the scene. so regardless of what he picked up in one location and moved to another, it was inappropriate procedure and really no reason to do it.

>> mr. cavanaugh, we'll get back to you and have you back again. val demings, jim cavanaugh, thank you. coming up, the verdict is in the boston marathon bombing. dzhokhar tsarnaev has been found guilty on all 30 counts. 17 of those are capital accounts which makes mr. tsarnaev eligible for the death penalty. plus, rand paul under fire by the hawks. no surprise. he's under the attack himself against hillary clinton and he's in a three-front war. for a dove, he knows how to fight a battle and he's got one on his hand. three of them. and candice bergen joins us. criticized for being a single mom. finally, let me finish with bill clinton's staggering commentary on 21st century american politics. he has said the truth again. and this is "hardball," a place for politics.

chicago mayor rahm emanuel has won re-election. he won the run-off against jesus chuy garcia. he held under 50% in february's first election. he thanked voters for putting him through his pacers and said he would be a better mayor because of it. we'll be right back. ice tool to help you find a price that fits your budget. uh-oh. the name your price tool. she's not to be trusted. kill her. flo: it will save you money! the name your price tool isn't witchcraft! and i didn't turn your daughter into a rooster. she just looks like that. burn the witch! the name your price tool a dangerously progressive idea. i win again. paul george the all-star. you still got it. play for the check? nope, with papa john's new payshare it already split the check for us. so, we wont be needing this anymore.

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welcome back to "hardball." two years to the day since the boston marathon bombing. a jury in massachusetts today reached a verdict in the capital murder trial of dzhokhar tsarnaev, guilty on all counts. of these counts, 30 federal counts, 17 are capital counts which now makes tsarnaev eligible for the death penalty. the jury's decision on the death penalty must be unanimous. it has to be all 12. the acts of the tsarnaev brothers was the worst assault on america since 9/11. and her client participated in

the bombing but said he had been unduly influenced and radicalized by his older brother. they hope to humanize tsarnaev in the hopes of sparing his life. but prosecutors say the handwritten confession tsarnaev wrote while hiding inside a boat before police captured him. midwin charles was a defense attorney and also joining me is kendall coffey, a u.s. attorney. the nature of this, i want to get to the politics behind this. when you ask the jury to decide whether to go ahead with executing someone who is clearly eligible for execution because of the nature of the charges and the con convictions, 17 in this case, would that lead you to believe that the jury would convict him if it's 17 times to justify execution? >> well, i think this jury right now is ready to definitely send him to death row. it's going to be uphill for the

defense but the defense is not even really begun to defend until now after the conviction. so they've got opportunities to try to humanize him and reduce his role and say that his older brother dominated his life. defense just needs one or two jurors to hold out. it's got to be unanimous for a death penalty and that one or two jury is what the defense is counting on. >> in your experience, how many juries sneak on and say they are not opposed to death penalty but they are. >> i think there are going to be some people on that jury who have a lot of trouble sending someone to their death. it's easy to say that i can follow the law, yes, i can support that. but to look at somebody and know that you're taking responsibility for extinguishing human life, it's going to be a problem for a couple of people on that jury. >> why do you accept the oath if you can't do a dirty job, if you

will, but it's a job that you have sworn to do? >> because all of us think that we can do the right thing, we think we are fair and can follow the law. but when something gets inside of us and it's this visceral heart-wrenching level, not so easy. >> and also you're probably looking to hear from the defense attorney to give you that reason. please give me a reason not to do this. >> that's right. and that's a defense attorney's job to appeal to the jury and go over the mitigating factors that humanize -- >> not to be too cold, figure out a jury's number. what will this juror, only one or two? >> you really only need one. all that defense attorney has to do is get appealed to that one person, their sensibility, their idea -- he was 19 when he did it, 21 years old now. so the idea that you could send

someone that young to death -- >> i'm going to play tough guy here. i'm not a big pro or anti-death penalty person. tsarnaev was convicted on 30 counts today, 17 of which allow the death penalty. most of the counts are based on a 1994 law supported by the following, senator ted kennedy of massachusetts, john kerry of massachusetts, barney frank, joseph kennedy and other members of the massachusetts delegation. they all voted for this death penalty eligibility and the total was 61 senators in that year and 235 in the house of representatives. overwhelming votes authorized the use of the death penalty and signed into law by then president bill clinton. if this was the intent of congress that such crimes should carry the death penalty, what matter of case did the congress matter for the death penalty if not for this one involving 17 convictions carrying the death penalty and why this law if not now.

kendall, why pass a law if you don't intend to enforce it in the most classic example where all these people were killed in a premeditated, calculated murder? >> well, i think -- >> if you're not going to enforce it here. that's what i'm asking. >> the prosecutors are attempting to enforce this law. that's why they have brought these charges and are pursing the death penalty as aggressively as it can. but the law also has room for a jury. and the way this is set up, any one of them can keep somebody from being sent to death row. that's part of the law, too. the law uses the flexibility in the world to search their conscience and that's part of the law that the congress passed. >> why don't they just write that? all these liberal democrats, massachusetts, the best people up there, barney frank, ted kennedy, joseph kennedy, they all voted for this law and now the people of massachusetts are saying that they are against it. why are we screwing around in congress?

stop passing laws that you don't intend to enforce it? >> it's not so much that they don't intend to enforce it. they are legislators. >> the law says capital punishment. >> and it's enforced by the prosecutor who brings the charge, which you have here. >> i know i'm -- i don't like the way they signed off on the death penalty every 15 minutes either but if you pass a law, you have to believe in what you are doing. >> i'm sure they did. it's out of their hands now. it's now in the hands of the prosecutor. >> what does everybody think this guy is going to do in prison for the rest of his life? he's going to plot and plot and plot. to try to make contact -- >> he'll only be let out for one hour a day. >> everybody thinks that's the nice way to do it. i think it's a softness. this is a brutal world we live in and a premeditated murder of all of those kids, arms blown off and they saw those people before they did it and did it to

innocent people, why have a law against that? why have a capital punishment if you're not going to use it? that's all i ask. stop playing games. i know you defend these guys but i wouldn't want to defend this guy. you're going to make me look like a right winger but this guy was attacking our country and if you had been in that crowd, you would have blown it up as quickly. up next, candice bergen is going to join us when her tv character was assaulted by that dangerous fella, dan quayle. this is "hardball," a place for politics.

come on. you're almost there. the eyelids are fluttering. all the way and we'll make it ten. that's what we want. i'll even help you. warm milk, long car rides.

>> welcome back to "hardball." for ten years, believe it or not, candice bergen starred as the tough as nails tv journalist murphy brown. she was the highest paid actor at the time. in 1992, 38 million viewers watched the character murphy brown give birth to a baby boy in the defining episode of the culture wars, vice president dan quayle, that's right, dan quayle called out the mother for raising the child as a single mother. >> it doesn't help when primetime has murphy brown, a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent highly paid women mocking fathers by bearing a child alone and calling it just another lifestyle choice. >> well, the show murphy brown wrote that controversy right into its plot line. here it goes.

>> mr. quail later expanded his remarks to say he believed examples like murphy brown glamorizes single motherhood. >> what planet is he on? look at me, frank. am i glamorous? >> of course not. you look disgusting. >> you're damn right. people in prison get to shower more often than i do. >> in her new memoir "a fine romance," she writes, i absolutely agreed with quail's point, that fathers are important but his statement ignored the reality of the existence of single mothers." i've always wondered about the hard right, the pro life people and a lot of people are pro life. wouldn't they want to support a woman who decided to go through and deliver a child? that's pro life. >> well, it was discussed on the show whether murphy would have an abortion, whether she would keep the child. the father of the child was her

ex-husband. so we felt that we covered that very neatly. but it was explored in depth. i mean, the whole argument, pro life and -- it was very thoroughly covered and it was a very loaded topic, no question. but it was reflecting what was happening in society at the time, which was the emerging of women in their late 30s, early 40s having children as single mothers because i think they were sort of in the tail end of feminism. >> and the clock was running out. whenever i'm in an elevator and somebody pushes the wrong button -- you know what i'm talking about -- and you get to that floor and everybody pretends that they didn't push the button and nobody gets out. there's a murphy brown rule there. do you remember it? >> no, i don't. >> the murphy brown rule is, if you push the button, you've got to get off the damn elevator.

>> oh, yes. yes. >> why do i remember these things? >> i don't know. >> anyway, i followed your career back when you were just a looker, a woman in sand pebbles, in carnal knowledge and freshman at penn. you were homecoming queen and all of that. penn was letting women in and way out of his time and so were you. how did you make that break? because fitzgerald said, there's no accident in second life. how did you do that becoming this great character murphy brown? >> well, i got very lucky. and my agency didn't submit me for it. it was a young agent named brian lord who had just started there who said, you know, there is this script. he's now, of course, the most important agent in hollywood.

and diane english who created murphy brown insisted that it was very important that i be cast. they wanted someone younger, more luscious and they didn't want murphy to be coming off the elevator and the pilot from a month of betty ford and they said, couldn't she have come back from a week at a spa? they were trying to defame the character and diane english went to bat for me. it was just a miracle to get that part at the ripe age of 41 because it was the best part of all time. >> you know, i think you created the character in that movie starting over because when you stood up and sang and wanted to make a fool out of yourself, this beauty decides to sing which you can't, i think you established that persona, didn't you? right then. >> that was great fun. i mean -- yes, i think so. and that sort of opened doors for me for comedy after that. but murphy was a much broader comic role.

>> let me talk about this act of yours. you're now a writer and you're a beautiful writer and i know from having done it many times myself, you put effort into it. just like you created murphy brown instead of earned your good looks because you earned it by being a great actor and character, you went through that for ten years, now you're earning it again. you're a writer. this thing about aging and i've read all of this stuff about weight gain, we're on the verge now, at least a 50/50 shot, i think hillary clinton has at least a 50/50 shot. maybe no more. 50/50 of being the next president at our age. what does that say about americans? >> i think it says that we've extended our lifespan by maybe five to ten years in terms of an active, vibrant lifespan. i'm not sure that i would have the energy to be president but it's not my problem and i think

it would be great if she ran but i don't think it will be easy. >> fair enough. what do you think about her? you have stayed at the white house. you had one of those overnight stays there. what was it like to be in close quarters of the former first lady in that kind of a setting at the white house? >> i did not earn my stay at the white house because of a massive campaign contribution. i went to one event that was a fund-raiser when he first announced his candidacy and then my husband died and they sent a letter and they said if you ever find yourself in d.c. and you'd like to come and stay at the white house, please bring your daughter. it was only a gesture of great courtesy and sensitivity on their part and when i was taking my daughter to washington to show her all of the -- our history and monument, i thought, i'm going to get in touch with the clintons because i don't think they would have offered if

they didn't mean it and then ron brown died in the plane crash and so then they asked, could we put it off a night and then we went and had dinner with the clintons and chelsea in their private dining room. they could not have been lovelier. they were clearly under duress because of the loss of their friend and my daughter watched "i love lucy" in lincoln's bed. >> and your hair doesn't look like -- >> i went to great lengths. >> anyway, i love the fact that you know your politics but also you're friends with both sides, with nancy reagan, a friend of mine and i think it's a great thing and you're positive about this whole thing and you've probably forgiven dan quayle, which is pretty hard -- not too hard to do given the ability he didn't think through this stuff. the book is called "a fine romance." it's a beautiful title. this lady can write. >> thank you, chris. pleasure.

up next, rand paul doesn't mind a fight. he's fighting the hawks in his party, hillary clinton and the media. we're going to get that next with the roundtable. this is going to be fun. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

welcome back to "hardball." well, for a dove, he certainly relishes a good fight. senator rand paul hasn't wasted much time since announcing his run for presidency yesterday. he's waging war with the menacing hawks and launched an

all-out attack on hillary clinton's character and going after the media for digging into his past. how horrible. he didn't think rand was a threat based on the evidence at that time. in 2011, he lobbied to end all foreign aid by the united states. he told cnn that he wanted to and moderated those positions and focused on an anti-war campaign but his past position are land mines and things got tough today when savannah guthrie asked him to explain them. >> you seem to have changed over the years. you once said iran was not a threat. now you say it is. you once proposed ending foreign aid to israel. you now support it, at least for the time being and you once offered to drastically cut -- >> wait. before we go -- >> and cut defense spending and now you want to increase it 16%.

so i just wonder if you've mellowed out. >> why don't you let me explain instead of talking over me, okay? >> sure. >> before we go through a litany of things you say i've changed on, why do you ask me a question? that would be a better way to approach an interview. >> is iran still not a threat? >> no. no. no. listen, you've editorialized. you said, have your views change instead of saying my views have changed. >> perry bacon, political reporter, lisa lair, and david corn is the washington bureau chief with mother jones. lisa, a couple of things are going on there. is this the norm of journalism, if you've got a record of public statements on hot issues, you're going to be asked about them. >> certainly in a presidential campaign you're going to be asked about what you said previously. this is the "today" show. personality matters in politics. the "today" show is where you go to do -- introduce yourself to

casual political observers, let people know what you are like, get a feel for who you are and he's blasted into everyone's households in the morning fighting with savannah guthrie. >> impression he make? >> i don't think he made a good impression for someone who didn't follow politics and he looked contentious and with a female host, which he has a history of. >> does he? >> yes. >> rachel? >> yes. >> let me ask you this. we were talking about this before with our producers. maybe this is the fight he wants. not that it's right or wrong but when you have people who feel alienated on the right, they feel all of the media, not just us but cnn and broadcast nets and public television and public radio are all liberal. why not pick a fight? >> i don't think the way -- there's a fight over policy and there's a way to be combative. i think when you're talking over people, that's not the fight you want. he's been bashing hillary clinton -- there's certain media you want to bash. this was not right, particularly on day two of the campaign.

>> so would you have -- he only has two alternatives, listen and let savannah list the infamy and would it be better to listen to her questions and one by one answer them? >> he has a big problem. it's not the three items that savannah ran him through. only to profit halliburton and i think what he wants to do is prevent that list from getting bigger. and so he's trying to cut this off saying i can't go back. >> speaking of hawks, directly responding to an attack ad and calls his foreign policy views dangerous. they love that menacing voice. produced by the architect of the swift vote attacks on john kerry's vietnam record of service. i think i have the same level of service in the vietnam war.

here's paul's response. >> almost every element of the ads align. i mean, they say i'm helping the president. i'm actually one who has said to the president that this deal, when it becomes final, has to be finalized by congress. i tell you what it does show you, somebody is worried about me on my day when i'm announcing, somebody is spending a million dollars. i think that they are part of the neocon community. the only consistent about their message is we should always be at war. >> there's a good fight, lisa. him and the neocons and by the way f. those jokers that paid for that ad in secret, dark money, if they served in vietnam like john kerry, please announce who you are. stop hiding. tell us about your war record. they went after john kerry's. he was shot at over there. these people are awful people. they hide under the cover and don't put their name on it and do an attack ad with all kinds

of mistakes in it and don't have to answer for it. your thoughts? >> it's going to be a fascinating debate to watch in the republican party before this recent moment of -- >> are these sleaze ball ads going to continue? >> i think we'll see the hawk side of the party -- >> are they as strong as they were? >> that's what we're going to find out. we'll get a strong sense of where the republican party is going after this election. >> are they less rudy giuliani? >> they will have a lot of money. >> the hawks? >> the hawks. other contributors and nevertheless they don't want to get a foot hold because they have been in control and -- >> who has a better shot than jeb and walker? >> marco rubio. >> you think rubio -- >> oh!

>> this is what i like. we have three guys and still wanted the four. with a ticket in iowa, he's still in the race. he's the only guy i know that can win both. it would only take 25%, if there's four people in the race. >> anyway, the roundtable is going to stay with us. up next, president obama says hillary clinton will do just fine if she just is her wonderful self. that's a far cry than the line he threw at her last time. this is "hardball," the place for politics. you get used to stale odors in your mudroom. you think it smells fine, but your guests smell this... febreze air effects works instantly to eliminate odors you've gone noseblind to. smells like a field of awesome in here. so you and your guests can breathe happy.

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we're back with the round table. only a couple minutes in the

show, but hillary clinton could announce her campaign for presidency as early as next week we're hearing. president obama has advice for her, you might say. here it is. >> if you had one piece of advice to give to hillary clinton right now, what would it be? >> just -- if she's her wonderful self, i'm sure she's going to do great. >> anyway, during that contentious 2008 primary fight, wonderful wasn't the way then senator obama described hillary clinton. >> what can you say to the voters of new hampshire on this stage tonight who see a resume and like it, but are hesitating on the likability issue? where they seem to like barack obama more? >> well, that hurts my feelings. >> i'm sorry, senator. i'm sorry. >> but i'll try to go on. he's very likable. i agree with that. i don't think i'm that bad.

>> you're likable enough, hillary. no doubt about it. >> thanks. >> a good moment for hillary clinton. by the way, voters in new hampshire i think liked her more than enough, and him not enough. speaking of advice, former president bill clinton who at times had too much to say in 2008, many say, vows to stay on the sidelines in 2016. town and country magazine told, my role should primarily be as a backstage adviser to her until we get much, much closer to the election. the former president's considered to be the best strategist in the democratic party. and he offered advice about his wife saying, i think it's important hillary does, too, that she go out as if she's never run for anything before. and establish her connection with the voters. that is smart. we're back right now. perry, lisa, and david, what do you think? >> bill "advice was better than president obama's. be your wonderful self. don't be yourself, be a more appealing version of yourself. bill clinton being able to not be involved, that's not going to happen. >> well, what about the idea of

>> the first campaign is not him not being involved, it's containing him. how do you channel him. >> he had a sound idea, which was don't act like you've got a lot of baggage. drop the baggage and introduce yourself. >> that's what by all accounts what we're hearing from her aides, that that's what she's going to try to do. he's not going to be at these events with her. he's supposed to be in africa at the end of the month. so he might even be out of the country. >> he was in haiti recently, he'll be doing a lot of globe trotting. he said in the campaign he will not be campaigning. maybe even not to the general. he doesn't need to be. he will be on the phone texting, e-mailing, all his wonderful thoughts, many of which will be good. >> the great thing is after all these years in the public life, back in the mid-'70s, all this exposure to the public, and people are saying, let's see more of you. just curiosity about her.

>> i don't know about that. >> i don't think there's a lot of curiosity. >> put her in the matriarchal tableau of her mother and grandmother. >> i'm curious where she's going to be on trade for the tpp. >> where is she going to be on teachers and teachers' unions? >> i think people want to know what she thinks. the whole biography thing, they want to know what she thinks. >> the policy questions. >> there's a way for her to establish a connection with voters. >> if i were you, i would stay on the listing tour for at least a few weeks before you have to answer the brutally tough questions. look what rand paul is going through. >> anyway. what a round table. we'll be right back. moms know their family's mouths often need a helping hand. after brushing

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let me finish tonight with this. bill clinton just let loose with a staggering xhipt tear on 21st century american politics. he said he didn't think he was good at it anymore because i'm not mad at anybody. a major california politician listed the two things he said are necessary to run for office today. to hate what you're doing now and be ready to kill the other guy. i'm afraid those standards led into the door of the worst kind

of people, who can't think of anything else to do and those who get a kick out of hurting people. i said it's someone who generally likes politicians, and totally believes in the cause of democratic government. one, the number and quality of people running today has dropped precipitously. check out the number of candidates last time for president. hubert humphrey, mel son rockefeller, dwight eisenhower. give me a break. secondly, there's a lot more attacking of the other candidate today. there was once a time when accusing a candidate of being soft on communism was unacceptable. today they're out there comparing the rivals to those who sold out to hitler. they accused the president of being an illegal immigrant from africa. maybe these two factors are connected.

the wariness of good people of high quality to jump into the political waters, and the sleaze balls out there floating in it. that's "hardball" for now. it's true. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from north charleston, south carolina. i'm chris hayes. in just a moment, we are going to bring you the first-ever extended interview with the man who shot the instantly iconic horrifying video from his cell phone, that depicts the shooting death of scott by michael slagger. earlier today, michael slager was arraigned, charged with murder here in the city of 100,000. that, after a shooting on saturday, which originally police had said happened pause officer slager feared for his life, telling a dispatcher and also in the police department that walter scott