this is the free market in action. >> yeah. gentlemen, great to have you with us. angelo and john fueling sang appreciate your time on this. that's "the ed show." "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. thanks to you for tuning in. we have a big show tonight, including what could be president obama's most powerful emotional statement yet onled delay in the loretta lynch nomination. >> it's gone too far, enough. enough. call loretta lynch for a vote. these embarrassing. a process like this. >> we'll have that full statement and what it means for the confirmation fight later in the show. but we start with developing news about that oklahoma reserve deputy who says he mistook his gun for his taser during a

deadly shooting. in his first public comments since the death of eric harris robert bates spoke to nbc news' matt lauer and addressed the central questions about how this happened. >> would you stand up for me for one second and show me where on your body when you are in your uniform you keep your taser and where you keep your weapon your revolver. can you stand up and show me. >> sure you bet. my tieser is right here on the front tucked in a protective vest. my gun itself is on my side, normally to the rear. >> and body camera video fromled incident appeared to capture the taser on his vest across from where he says he kept the gun. today matt lauer asked how he could have mixed up these two very different devices.

>> people are going to look at that, mr. bates, and they are going to say how could you make this mistake? how could you think you were going for your taser on your chest tucked into that vest and accidentally pull your weapon. >> well let me say this has happened a number of times around the country. i have read about it in the past. i thought to myself after reading several cases i don't understand how this can happen. you must believe me. it can happen to anyone. >> robert bates claiming it was an accident which could have happened to anyone. it's a claim that the brother of eric harris has rejected. >> if he had as much training as he supposedly had, he would definitely know a 357 from a taser. >> joining me now mark

clakszton, former new york police officer and director of the black law enforcement alliance and eugene o'donnell, professor of law and police study at john jay college of criminal justice. thanks for being here. >> thanks, rev. >> let me say a moment ago we got a response to bates from the harris family. quote, unfortunately mr. bates' apology will not bring eric back. with each passing day, as facts continue town fold we have become increasingly disturbed by mr. bates' actions. eugene, what jumps out at you about the explanation from bates that this could have happened to anyone? >> well, it's a very very very rare occurrence. i believe there's i'm wards of a million uses of tasers and perhaps a dozen or so of these claims. so it's a major exception to the rule that people don't usually

reach for a gun when they are reaching for a taser, and i have to say bluntly the more i hear this story the worse the story, is and it's been a week now and every day it seems to get worse. >> now, matt lauer pointed out, and i'm looking out the tape of mr. bates' interview, if the taser was in a chest area vest and the gun at his side, then he would have had to reach not only for the wrong weapon or wrong instrument he went to the wrong place that he himself knows where the difference is. it just doesn't match up to what his excuse is. >> right, and there was a similar excuse attempted in the bart shooting you'll recall and the jury rejected that. the court of appeal in california essentially said this is a big mistake. this is not a small mistake, and he says it's in the center -- it's in the center the taser. typically the firearm should be

on one side and the taser should be on the opposite side so it actually should be quite a stretch to reach for the wrong weapon not that it couldn't conceivably happen, but to say it's not a major error, it's a major error for that to happen. >> now the tulsa county sheriff's department has said this was an accident citing something called slip and capture. listen to this. >> there is a human phenomenon called slips and capture, and this is exactly what took place. the deputy intended to do one thing when inadvertently he did another. this has happened all across the country where you've had a slips and capture incident. >> what do you make of that explanation? >> that evidence was offered in bart. the jury rejected that evidence and the court of appeal affirmed the conviction. it's an attempt to say that any mistake is not criminal and that's simply not criminal law in america. there are mistakes that are harmless relatively and not egregious, and there are mistakes that are such a gross deviation for standard of crime

and a crime and an attempt to make the science into excusing mistakes and not a successful attempt in the bart case. >> the bart case you're referring to is in oakland for viewers that don't know. >> that's right, where there was a claim of the reaching for a taser and a lethal shooting of somebody and the officer in that case was convicted and was sentenced to incarceration. >> now, robert bates also responded to accusations that he's a wealthy supporter of the sheriff's department who has been rewarded with the chance to quote, play cop. listen. >> that is unbelievably unfair. i've donated equipment as i saw fit. also has a drug problem. there is no question. nobody argues that. i am willing to put up equipment to assist them to better educate

the public. >> how do you respond to that? >> the whole idea of becoming a police officer is you get authority but with that authority you get responsibility and accountability and a chain of command and ask any cop in america. you're told no all the time. bad idea. can't do it non-starter. that's what police people live with. when you have access to the sheriff, you're a contributor, and you're contributing these items to the sheriff's department. even the sheriff can't tell you no. forget about the cooler heads and the wiser heads who are subordinate commanders. the sheriff is compromised, and that's the issue. when people are dabbling in law enforcement, this is life or death stuff, it shouldn't be treated as some sort of a weekend hobby. >> now, there's a larger issue being discussed as a result of this. in 2006 fbi estimates that a number of reserve officers nationwide at 400,000. difference places call them different things auxiliary

police and all but around 400,000. are there consistent rules and regulations on how these reserve officers are deployed eugene? >> no doubt there are reserve officers that are good. there's no consistency. new york city doesn't want to be anybody to be in. some have actually lost their lives in the line of duty but for the most part reserve officers should be limited, should be very carefully selected. the concern you have to have is unlike a full-time police officer with a pension, with an investment, these are people that are simply volunteering so they don't have the skin in the game, if you will, that full-time police people have so you have to be extra careful for people that are craving authority and want to have this authority to check it out to make sure it's for the right reasons. are you in this community for the right reasons? are you there to run roughshod over people and i don't think most police chiefs would disagree. it's a concern when people are self-nominating to become police people especially in high crime communities that need the very best most carefully selected

and most professional police people. not people that are running around, and i don't mean to denigrate the good ones but there's no question it's a concern when you have people that are saying i'll go to the toughest part of town. i'll be part of a sting operation. police commanders would almost for sure routinely say no no no. bad idea. >> we're joined now by mark claxton. we had satellite problems but now we have him. mark we're talking about the whole idea of having these reserve deputies and there's a concern here now about whether they are trained, whether they should even be carrying a gun as a result of this bates shooting. bates says it could happen to anyone. it happens all the time. your reaction? >> i think his assertion was absurd and i think more importantly it's something that eugene is touching on and you're speaking about is the need the desperate need to maintain a certain professional standard.

this should be across the board across the nation, a professional standard for professional law enforcement and police officers. i mean if you can imagine the benefactor of some hospital being allowed to stand shoulder to shoulder with the experienced surgeon and hold the scalpel and use the scalpel. it's absurd. law enforcement, police work is a profession and must be treated and respected as such and without that type of national professional standard you will find individual departments, entities and agencies winging it. perhaps selling out access and this really puts the public at danger. it's a public safety issue that must be be addressed across the board, across the nation. >> mark there was a report by anonymous sources in "the tulsa world" saying that bates in fact had his training records falsified, and it's a report that nbc has not confirmed. listen to what he said about it. >> that is not correct.

i have a written piece of paper that a mr. warren crittendon now in jail for first-degree murder in mays county signed off to say i had done a good job. >> you did the training and you can prove that you were certified? >> that is absolutely the truth. i have it in writing. >> but whatted is the training and what does it -- but what is the makeup of the training and how do we know the train is sufficient? i think that's the question. you're giving a deadly weapon to people that are not policemen, not sworn as policemen. what kind of training do they have when they have the same kind of weapon and tasers that policemen have mark? >> well what's not in dispute is their training level, whether you call them reservists or auxiliary or whatever title is

not the standard level of training for a professional police officer and therefore, they should not be placed in positions, situations that deal directly with public safety especially special operations undercover operations stings et cetera. listen, i think law enforcement appreciates and the community appreciates individuals who volunteer themselves but let's not fool ourselves. a professional police officer is on a much higher level than a volunteer limited trained individual who really has goodwill towards the community, and that individual now -- is now individually culpable and the entity or agency the individuals who deputize them so to speak, are really culpable in this matter and it's something that -- it's a teachable moment. it's an opportunity for training issue, a training issue to arise out of this situation and to stop this ridiculous practice because the public safety is at risk. >> mark claxton and eugene

o'donnell, thank you for your time tonight and have a good weekend. >> you too, rev. >> thank you. coming up president obama pounds republicans for their refusal to hold a vote on loretta lynch. >> it's gone too far. enough. enough. call loretta lynch for a vote. get her confirmed. put her in place. let her do her job. these this is embarrassing, a process like this. thank you. >> also how hillary clinton is handling her relationship with president obama on the campaign trail? all that plus my special interview withled co-creator of tv's hit show "empire." with season two ahead, we'll look at how it's rewriting the rules and changing hearts and minds.

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president is in new hampshire this weekend, and it's getting fun. >> i get this question all the time. not exactly yours but the one about well you know especially from the media. governor, do you have to change? do you have to mellow? do you have to you know round off a couple of those rough edges? i don't know what they are talking about. i didn't run for governor of new jersey to be elected prom king okay? if people are waiting for me to be the nicest guy in the room the most subtle guy in the room if i had waited for that, i wouldn't be in this room. >> chris christie not going for subtlety there's a surprise. others are trying to get their jabs in like rick perry, going after every single senator who is running. >> we've spent eight years with a young, inexperienced united states senator. >> i will suggest to you that the next president of the united states really needs to be

someone who has deep experience as an executive. >> and while perry was on offense, jeb bush was trying to fend off attacks that he's not conservative enough for today's gop. >> it's not, you know a republican in name only record. the liberals in florida are angry that people don't see me as a conservative outside of florida. well, my record is a conservative one. it's a i'm not kidding conservative one and it's a record of accomplishment. it's i did it. i didn't talk about it. >> somehow i think we're going to be hearing a lot of talking about conservative records this weekend because it isn't just those three speaking. marco rubio takes the stage later tonight and probably every other republican you've ever heard of tomorrow. so get ready, new hampshire. there's a whole lot of red meat coming your way. joining me now are dana millbank

and jess mcintosh. thanks for being here. >> hi reverend. >> dana it's pretty kroided up there in new hampshire. how are these republicans hoping to stand out from the pack? >> apparently there's going to be 19 them reverend and that's not even all who are in the race, so the ones i really fill bad for are the granite state voters who have to listen to half an hour of each one of them, but, i mean at least they have got a large enough flag in the backdrop so that -- that should at least hold some energy for the crowd. but, you know for the candidates it's really a question of how do you differentiate yourself in this? now, objection several of these guys aren't really serious candidates, but a dozen or so really are, and -- and how do you make some noise and get noticed in this -- in this very large circle. >> and jess a lot of it is how you make your move get noticed without damaging yourself. >> sure. >> and, you know we anticipate the gop primary is getting

really rough, but so far jeb bush and marco rubio have been playing it nice. listen to what jeb had to say today. >> close friend and it is what it is. we'll all sort out. this is a long journey, and my -- one of my objectives would be to maintain the friendships i have with people that maybe aspire to the same thing. i think it's possible. >> do you think the rest of them are worried about remaining friends? >> i think that jeb bush hasn't even actually announced yet so i still think we have miles to go to see exactly how far he's going to go in this primary. when marco rubio announced and he made those insinuations about politics of yesterday and leaders of yesterday, i thought that was just as much a shot at jeb as it was a shot at hill hill, and i think that we're going to see the sort of subtle trying to have it both way jab from marco rubio as he's going through this process. he's going to be able to hit jeb and make it sound like he's trying to do a hillary number. i don't think it's going to be

very nice at all. >> the other thing that is interesting is we've heard a lot of talk dana about republicans re-branding themselves the autopsy, and they have tried to rebrand themselves as champions of fairness. listen to what rick perry did this afternoon. >> there is something wrong when the dow jones is at record high but businesses on main street are struggling just to get along. the large corporations don't pay taxes and single moms working two jobs have to. >> is that his elizabeth warren impression dana? >> oh, i don't know, but, you know, i mean you talk about the autopsy and re-branding. the problems is if the autopsy is under way and you're just re-branding, well you're still dealing with a corps here and that's all well and good for rick perry to be out there talking about poor folks, but

the republican party in the united states this week just voted for a $270 billion tax cut for the wealthiest .2 of 1% of america. >> just this week. >> so one thing to get up there and talk this way and another when you look at the record of this party and precious few of those 19 or 26 or however many candidates there are that actually have a serious record on poverty and something other than dealing with the wealthy. >> but, jess jeb bush is ahead of most of the polls, and you've got people like christie, perry, rubio tonight are in single digits. if they don't break from the pack and get above single digits, is it over? >> i mean yes. i think that they all will at some point. this is kind of like the cattle call that we saw in 2012 where a whole host of republican characters sort of each took their turn coming up and being the front-runner for the week you know michelle bachmann had

her moment in the sun. i think we'll get to know a lot about these guys more than we ever wanted but, yeah i think we'll see them each break out and then as their policies render them unelectable i think we're going to see them fall back and the next one is going to take their turn. >> dana how does someone break out? are we going to see a breakthrough store they weekend, and if so if you were advising any of the candidates how would you advise them that you can make a breakthrough here without hurting yourself? what would they have to do? >> well i don't think they are necessarily going to take my advice, reverend, but it is true as jess points out. 19 candidates, 18 months. they do have enough time and they probably will go through the flavor of the week if not the month. the problem is you need some to fall by the wayside, and it's going to take a long while until that all sorts out. it will happen with money.

it will happen with continued polling and then you see who all the people second choices are, and then it witles down that way, but it -- at this early stage it's very difficult to see how somebody really breaks from the pack given that jeb didn't. >> dana milbank and jess machine tock, thank you both for your time tonight. have a great weekend. >> you, too, reverend. ahead inside the obama/clinton relationship. how will it play out over the course of her campaign? but first president obama speaks out on the republicans holding the loretta lynch vote hostage, and he was not holding back. ♪ ♪ ♪

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breaking news in the loretta lynch confirmation hearing. today president obama with some strong words for the republicans who have been holding up the confirmation of his nominee for attorney general for 160 days

and counting. >> what are we doing here? and -- and -- and i have to say that there are times where the dysfunction in the senate just goes too far. this is an example of it. it's gone too far. enough. enough. call loretta lynch for a vote. get her confirmed. put her in place. let her do her job. this is embarrassing. a process like this. thank you. >> this comes just a day after senate minority leader harry reid threatened to force republicans to hold a vote and now senator mcconnell's office is tweeting that lynch's nomination may finally be taken

up next week. joining me now is congressman emanuel cleaver. thank you for being here congressman. >> good to be with you reverend. >> first, the president is clearly angry with how lynch has been treated in this right? >> he is clearly angry. he did not hold back today and frankly he shouldn't. i think that this is an insult to any administration. presidents have the right to have their cabinet members, particularly the attorney general of their choice. the senate seems to be suffering from the plague of partisan recalcitrance. they are just simply holding things up. think about this reverend they are holding this up the nomination for the highest law enforcement agent in the nation because of a piece of legislation on human trafficking that has been amended with an

anti-abortion component. >> right. >> so it's not even connected, and the president is right. it is an embarrassment. they ought to be embarrassed to be members of the united states senate tonight and afraid to go out to dairy queen to get ice cream. >> now we're told now, according to the tweet, they are going to possibly have a vote next week but could this have a long-term negative impact on republicans for starting this over 160 days? we're at 160 days today so even if they go next week this unprecedented delay, could this have a long-term political impact on them? >> it's going to have a long-term negative impact i think on the party. i think it also will have a negative impact on washington but the party is trying to present a new image. they want to be inclusive. they want to have women in

positions of significance. they don't want to be seen as anti-women, and here we have a qualified woman, qualified so much so that even people in the republican camp are making kind comments about her. fox news one of the commentators on fox news made a positive comment about her. senator kirk of illinois has said he's going to support her. they have the votes. the only issue is whether they have the -- the courage to bring someone to the floor of the senate for a vote so that we can have an attorney general in place, because the long-term negative impact of this is why would a decent american who is trying to make a living and live out his or her dreams want to be nominated in a country where people hang them in some kind of political purgatory and prevent

them from serving their nation. it is an insult and it ought to be an embearsment. >> especially when you're not raising objections to the person or their qualification. we're not just holding her hostage because we're questioning something about her background we don't know or something about her positions we don't know. it's on something totally unrelated to her because we want to, one, try and leverage it to get something through which includes anti-abortion which has nothing to do with loretta lynch and because they want to take a shot at the president. that is what's even more insulting. >> yeah it is and -- and the danger is that when you start talking about how unprecedented this is and it is a woman, i don't think that's going to play well in the long run for the republican party. i mean confirm the woman. she has the votes. she has enough republican support. she has almost universal democratic support. people in new york where she was u.s. attorney speak well of her. she has an impeccable

background. she needs to be confirmed. the president ought to be angry and i'm glad he is. >> congressman emanuel cleaver, thank you for your time tonight. have a great weekend. >> thank you, reverend. still ahead, how the obama/clinton relationship could define the 2016 election. most of the products we all buy are transported on container ships. before a truck delivers it to your store, a container ship delivered it to that truck. here in san diego, we're building the first one ever to run on natural gas. ships this big running this clean will be much better for the environment. we're proud to be a part of that.

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or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. time now for conversation nation. joining me tonight susan milligan from "u.s. news & world report," salon.com joan walsh and msnbc contributor victoria defrancesco soto. thank you all for being here. >> thank you, reverend. >> it was the week of hillary clinton. she launched her campaign meeting with voters in iowa and sounded a lot like president obama talking about economic fairness, but here's the

headline from politico today. clinton's real opponent is president obama. now, i disagree with that but many are wondering how much she will embrace the president on the trail. they have a long history from those fierce debates in 2008 to becoming secretary of state, to being together on unforgettable nights in the situation room and they agree on all the big issue health care immigration, same-sex marriage free community college and equal pay for women. the president was asked this week about how she will do. >> i think she will do great. i've known her for a very long time. we had a really tough primary in 2008 and i saw firsthand how tenacious and determined and compassionate she is when it comes to the issues facing the

middle class and she was an outstanding secretary of state, so i'm not going to do any political prognosticating. that's your job, but -- but i will tell that you i think she would be an excellent president. >> so how does she embrace the president's success while being her own candidate? joan, how does she walk this fine line? >> i think she's going to walk it very well rev. i think she is her own person but these two people are extraordinarily close, personally and politically. there's just not a whole lot of daylight between them so this is going to be one of the most annoying story lines of the upcoming campaign. there's going to be a lot of attempt to put day light where it doesn't exist, and a lot of report ers reporters, nobody here, of course, has a tough time with issues. i think we'll see a lot of that where it mostly won't exist. >> susan, isn't that the problem

though that a lot of people will try to put light between them and the republican right, far right, that their base despises president obama, they will love to try to say they are right, there's no light between them. so how does she deal with the fact that she's got to defend that she's her own person and at the same time not send a signal to democratic voters and progressives that like president obama that she's not betraying or distancing herself from him. >> i don't think she has to do any of those things rev. i agree with you. i don't think this is an issue at all. this isn't a situation where al gore running for president and trying to distance himself from president clinton saying i'm my own man because he was his vice president. you know secretary clinton was his secretary of state and you know, not for a couple of years. i think that the daylight is going to be between her and the republican primary candidates and the ultimate republican nom northeast. what's interesting with the way

she's campaigning now it looks more like the very successful campaign she ran when she ran for senate for the first time in new york where she went to every single county really listened to people, really earned people's votes. i really saw this in western new york. it was a pivotal thing. i don't think her relationship with the president has anything to do with anything. >> victoria listen to how president obama and secretary clinton talked about each other in 2013. >> i was a big admirer of hillary's before our primary battles and the general election. you know, her discipline her stamina, her thoughtfulness her ability to project i think and make clear issues that are important to the american people. >> despite our hard fought primary, we had such agreement on what needed to be done for our country. >> made for tough debates, by the way. >> it did. >> because we could never forget out what we differed on. >> we worked on that pretty

hard. >> they admit they didn't different on much. how will she strike a balance here victoria? >> they like each other. they respect each oh, but at end of the day, reverend nobody wants to be the third term president of their predecessor so this is going to be where we do see some strategic distancing. you know earlier we were talking about gore distanced himself too much from president clinton which hurt him. it's going to be a gold locks issue. one question i have, reverend, is how much distancing or proximity will there be between hillary clinton and her husband because we do know that the '90s was a very good time and bill clinton is a very beloved president. there were things that people didn't like about him, but at end of the day the '90s conjures up positive emotions, so i'm going to be curious to see how she also walks that line between her husband and herself. >> well republicans have already attacked the

clinton/obama relationship as a talking point saying it's going to be obama's third term and, joan how does she debunk that without looking like she's playing some kind of game with democratic voters? >> well i think she does have a somewhat more hawkish stance when it comes to foreign policy issues, and she's been open about that. her book "hard choices" laid out five or six areas where she had differed with the president and where i'm glad the president won out when it came to arming syria, syrian rebels for example, so there may be -- there have been genuine differences. i don't know if she stresses them or not or how much they are going to matter. i think it's also to speak to what victoria just mentioned. it is kind of a tough one. he's a beloved president, but i have to say as someone who is a progressive, and do i love him, there's some economic questions about his record. does she support, you know getting rid of glass/steagall? banks are a big issue. certain things about legacy.

trade right now is coming up as an issue in realtime certain things about the clinton legacy that might problematic for her in 2016 so those questions are going to be interesting, too. >> well, it's going to be interesting given she's a former first lady and a former secretary of state and a former senator. she's got to deal with the relationship with her husband and president obama. that's why it will be an historic race to watch how she does it. everyone stay with me. coming up the latest republican to flirt with 2016. moments ago new comments from mike huckabee. what could it mean for the race? we'll talk about it next.

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we're back. we're back with our panel, susan, joan and victoria. so former governor mike huckabee might be flirting with another presidential run. he was just asked about it on fox. >> i don't think anybody should enter into a decision that is this monumental not just for me but for my entire family without a lot of prayer a lot of thoughtful consideration, a lot of consultation with friends and family members, and -- and so all of that is a very important factor in leading up to the decision that i will make and

make clear on may the 5th. >> this announcement will be made in his hometown of hope arkansas. it's also the hometown of former president bill clinton. susan, he's big with evangelical voters. what impact could huckabee have? >> well it will be interesting to see because i remember the mike huckabee who ran in 2008 and, of course, he did win the iowa caucuses that year and at the time i was struck by the fact that iowa democrats and republicans nominated someone who is at least talking about hope and reconciliation as both obama and huckabee at the time were doing. he said some things that were really kind of out of the talking points of his party talking about how so much of our health care costs are in the last year of our lives and what we can do about that. he talked about in a foreign policy speech that i found very impressive. he said before we put boots on the ground we should have wingtips. shouldn't be so eager to go in militarily and had a talk one time about his faith where he

was very forgiving and the way he talked about it and he said i know i fall short in the eyes of god so i have to accept other people. >> will that make him a breakaway candidate, joan? >> oh, you know i think this really helps jeb bush. i think everything susan is saying is true but it's getting very crowded on the right side of that race reverend al so i think that people you know bush has support. he's also got a lot of people who are against him, but the more you give that cohort candidates that split the vote and splinter the anti-bush vote the better it is for jeb. >> victoria, let me go to you quickly. >> so it's better for jeb but it's not good for ted cruz because here we're starting to see that conservative end very crowded, and if rick santorum gets in, too, we can see that space getting smaller and smaller, but the funny thing is that ted cruz is not that lovable sweet huckabee type, so is the evangelical base going to turn more towards huckabee because he shares the same evangelical values but he's not as harsh or brass as ted cruz.

>> susan, joan and victoria thank you for joining the conversation. have a great weekend. >> you, too. >> thanks reverend al. >> coming up it's the breakout tv hit of the year. "empire" is entertaining millions and breaking barriers in black culture. danny strong the show's co-creator, joins me to talk about it all ahead. ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car. the first and only car with direct adaptive steering. ♪ the 328 horsepower q50 from infiniti.

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it's the hottest show of the year the hip hop drama "empire." the show follows music mogul lucius lyon and his family as they wrestle for power and control over his company, empire entertainment. >> are you kidding? >> i'm gigi. >> now you can't speak english. >> yes, she did, and she tried to take portia you. >> paid portia to spy on you. >> and i spied right back on your [ no audio ]. >> you know what? you're about to break yourself. believe that. bye, felicia. >> the all-black cast is drawing in audiences from all over the world. a record 16.7 million viewers

tuned into the bombshell two-hour finale in march. the show was co-created by executive producer danny strong and the great producer and director lee daniels and is pushing boundaries and breaking barriers tackling controversial issues in the black community, everything from homophobia to the stigma of mental illness. i recently spoke with executive producer danny strong and i started by asking him if he knew empire would be such a big hit. >> no. i had no clue. i thought we would do okay. thought it would be an original show that some people would enjoy but i had no idea you know, it would cross this gender race. it seems that anybody can dig "empire." >> even national boundaries international? >> yeah, it's starting to roll out. people are really taken by it. it's been really thrilling. >> what inspired you to come up with the series? >> i was driving in my car in

los angeles, and there was a news story on the radio about puffy, and i just thought hip-hop is so cool. i've got to do something in hip-hop. this is just a fantastic universe for a drama, and then i thought about king lear and this play called "the lion in winter" and i thought i should call lee daniels because we were doing "the butler" together and i called lee a few days later and pitched him the idea and he told me i love this idea but it's not a move. it's a tv show. >> at the networks convention, we honored the show and you and gave a big humanitarian award to lee, and the show deals with a lot of social issues like homophobia and mental health and you've been able to bring in people's living rooms something that has inspired discussion that activists and social activists like me have not been able to get people at home to talk about. is that an important part of the show to you? >> it's a crucial part of the show for me and it was part in

the very first pitch that i ever gave to lee. it was an integral part of it because tackling social issues is a major part of why i'm a writer and what i'm interested in doing in my writing is talking about issues of race sexuality, gender all sorts of things, and lee daniels feels the exact same way and that's part of why we work so well together. >> i think it's a lot of courage where lee has taken a lot of stands and you with the show because as we're in this age of indiana and arkansas around questions of gay rights and all, you really don't advocate or go in as activists, but you really make people see the human side of a father dealing with his son being gay, the son dealing with the father, the question of mental illness. where people look at it from a human side so they are not polarized taking sides but they are saying here's a human face. >> yeah, it's one of the reasons why i think people create art

and write novels and write songs is to be able to talk about these issues but to not do it in a way in which it feels like you're teaching or you're taking someone to school. you're just telling a story that hopefully is good and yet simultaneously has other levels to it that talks about issues that sometimes people are very much afraid to talk about. >> is the next season going to be just as provocative and just as truthful? >> we hope so. we hope so. don't want to let anybody down, and it seems to be working. let's stay the course and tell provocative interesting stories and have a lot of fun and have some great songs and hopefully people will enjoy the season just as much. >> well danny strong thank you for joining us tonight, and we can't wait for season two, and we'll watching, and we'll be thinking and talking about it. that's what this show really does. >> i hope so. thank you. an honor being here. >> thank you. >> thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now.

chicken hawks. let's play "hardball." ghenk. i'm chris mat these in san francisco. tonight we live in the land. chicken hawk. always with a love of war but not an actual appetite. he speaks and writes a tough game but flies away at the prospect of actual combat. for example, you can hear the cries of the chicken hawk growing loud for a quick air strike on iran but not a peep for the grim struggle on the ground in iraq and syria against isis. 47 republican senators wrote a letter to theitia trying to derail the negotiations over nuclear weapons in iran but you can't find one republican senator ready to pass a war resolution against isis. what gives here? does the right like to blow the bugle only to scramble when