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the ppp is much more than a free trade agreement. it is part of a global race to the bottom. i think it's time we slowed down the fast track. >> once the skids are greesased, it lasts in to the next president and potentially even the president after that. >> and the house has just voted to give president obama what is called fast track authority. the rules of the road in the global economy, they're being written right now. the question is who will write them. >> we were kind of feeling bad that we hadn't rubber stamped anything for this president, and this is it. >> only said from a guy that has announced his retirement. >> what do you think? >> senator paul is the worst possible candidate on the most important issue, which is national security. >> we've seen other people announce. rand paul. hillary is running. what do you think of these guys? >> all fine americans, jimmy. if i run, you'll find out exactly what i think of them.

>> okay. we have a lot going on. at the top of the hour here. welcome to "morning joe". with us the former governor of vermont and former chairman of the democratic national committee. howard dean. in washington pulitzer prize winning writer for the "washington post," jonathan capehart. so capitol hill, "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. along with willie joe and me. >> a lot to talk about including the story just breakingoff the over the "new york times" from 35 applicants ago that we'll get to right now. this just keeps going and going. >> why didn't we try and break this it's a huge article, but let's break it down as carefully as we can. there is more information from this upcoming new book called clinton cash which looks into foreign donations to the clinton foundation. politico reports that one of the book's chapters alleges that a canadian tone nor who pledged over $100 million to the foundation influenced hillary clinton's stance on a colombia

trade deal at the state department. both clinton and then senator obama opposed it during the 2008 campaign. but by 2009 clinton supported the deal as did the white house. meanwhile, this "new york times" story claims the foundation received millions of dollars as russia pushed for control of a canadian uranium company. canadian records are cited to show that the chairman of uranium one made more than $2 million in donations which the clinton foundation reportedly did not disclose and it's alleged other people connected to the company donated, as well. and that a kremlin-connected bank promoting stock in the company soon paid bill clinton $500,000 for a speech in moscow. several u.s. agencies ultimately had to approve the deal because uranium is a strategic asset, including the state department. a clinton campaign spokesman told the times no one, quote,

has ever produced a shred of evidence supporting the theory that hillary clinton ever took action as secretary of state to support the interests of donors to the clinton foundation. to suggest the state department under then secretary clinton excerpted undue influence in the u.s. go. 's review government he review of the sale of uranium is utterly baseless. clinton is also facing scrutiny after a news week report that the largest individual contributor to the krinclinton foundation allegedly traded with iran in breach of u.s. tapgs sanctions. the fourth richest man in ukraine reportedly attended bill clinton's 65th birthday party in 2011. "newsweek" reports records show a series of shipments from his company to iran. so we have a lot of different stories here that lead to more of a narrative, but possibly

possibly some conflicts. >> definite conflicts. no doubt they are definite conflicts. but i think a lot 6of people that there were going to be problems. democrats knew it. clintons were getting hundreds of millions of dollars from characters across the globe. oligarchs across the globe. and at the same time they were getting deals from the clinton state department. waivers from the clinton state department. and so i'll be honest with you you, all of this has come rushing in so quickly over the past 12 to 24 hours, it's not a book because a lot of people say it's clinton cash and this guy is this this guy is that there is something very interesting. we have breaking news about this guy that wrote clinton cache and we'll reveal on the show at 6:30 who he's going after next. but you're talking about

hundreds of millions of dollar you're talking about waivers, a very tight incestuous relationship that there is no doubt going to cause problems. again, this "new york times" article goes on and on and on and on about a very tight intimate relationship between bill clinton and several industrialists who were getting breaks from the state department at the same time and giving millions and millions of dollars to the clinton foundation. that will take a while to sort through. >> and himself the question will be can that kind of business be being done by a spouse when one is serving in the state department. i think that's a very legitimate question. >> willie this is something obviously the obama administration was concerned about, they had a memo of understanding, they were hoping that it would stop these sort of conflicts from taking place. but obviously you look at "new

york times" reporting, you look at news week reporting, i mean it's obviously not been able to stop these questions from rising. >> and as you say, there is a lot to sift through. you have russia ukraine, iran, colombia, all these separate stories. the question will be this money was given to the clinton foundation, no disputing that. the question will be was there quid pro quo and how do you prove that that -- if she did, if hillary clinton did things in favor of these people can you prove that that -- >> it will be very hard. jeremy peter, it will be very hard to prove quid pro quo especially when you're dealing with people like the clintons who have been doing this since 1992 they have been in the national spotlight since 1992 they're much smarter. i mean they have the bent dome break defense and man have they bent over to the grounds, but they don't seem to break. so they're very smart people.

but this is obviously the "new york times'" big story for the day. it's a special report. it's at the top of your -- it's top of the website. but what is fascinating, it didn't get released until 35 minutes ago. take us behind the scenes of the "new york times". is this reporting that was going on all night? why did it happen that way? why do you release a story at 5:15 in the morning? >> i don't know. those decisions happen way above my pay grade. so i'm not really sure exactly the process that went on there. but what i will say is that if you look at all of the various scandals that the clintons will have to deal with whether benghazi or the e-mails or the foundation, the foundation financial dealings were always the most problematic and they were always the ones that republicans felt had the most there. if you talk to republican ad makers, they will tell you the e-mail thing, it's very hard to condense into a 30 second ad. there is not really a linear

thought there. you can't really say she broke the law. so what did she do. but the foundation business they have taken money from foreign countries that do not have interests that align with the united states. that is very very much more serious. and that i think is going to be a recurring story line for the next 15 months. >> and howard again, we don't know the specifics of this story because it's just -- there is a lot coming at us very quickly. can i ask you a quick question though? >> you'll get an earful of course because i'm going to defend all this. >> but you can't really defend this yet. sfwr >> yeah, you can. >> so you like so many other clinton defenders are going to be able to tell us what is wrong with the "new york times" story before you've even read this story and we can even consume it. so i want to ask my question and then i'll let you reflexively just do what you and james

carville do and just start shooting rhetorical blasts all over the place. >> no one is as colorful as james. so here is the thing. what part of the stories is trying to conflate the idea that the clintons actually took personal money. none of this is personal money. this all went to things like reducing malaria and improving people's standards of living. >> i don't think the "new york times" story reflects that. >> i'm not the saying it did. but it's talked about as if the clintons took this money for themselves. they didn't. it all went to charitable causes. and as jareremy talked about, countries have different interests than our open we talk for these people every day. number two this was unearthed by a guy who is the president of something called the general accountability institute which is funded by opponents -- >> so this is a clinton tactic, you're not talking about the at facts, but you 59 takts theuyou attack

the messenger. >> the operation funded by people who support ted cruz. this is the facts. >> this is comic strip of politics. >> these are the facts. and when we reveal the news the at 6:30 that we'll talk about, you'll see how that fits in too. >> why don't we do it now because it completely undercuts this comical -- a guy who supports ted cruz doesn't support anybody else. >> josh green spoke exclusively with peter schweitzer, the author of clinton cash. josh, what did you find about where he's going next? >> well, i interviewed the author yesterday. peter schweitzer author of the controversial book supposed right wing hit man. he's actually working on a similar investigation of jeb bush's finances with a team of researchers that is going to be published this summer. >> and what is he looking for specifically? >> exactly the same thing. he told me he was looking for exactly the same thing he was looking for with the clintons.

to examine their land deals, to examine conflicts of interest cronyism, possible corruption, all the sorts of things that appear to be contained within the clinton cash book. he's doing the same thing to jeb bush and jeb bush's financial dealings. >> and just to add always meat to those bones, i saw i think international business times story about people are now starting to try to connect bush pioneers, those are the people that gave george w. bush i don't know, $50,000, $100,000 in the 2000 campaign with people getting -- then moving on and getting deals with florida's pension plan. so trying to sort of connect those dots too, if you gave to george w. bush did you have a better chance to invest florida pension money which is well over a billion dollars. >> well, and we forget there has been so much focus on the clintons and the clinton global initiative and all the millions

sloshing around there. bush himself has far flung global financial enterprises. i wrote in business week oig in december about the private equity funds and some of the chinese investors. schweitzer told me that is something he and his researchers have been looking in to. so it certainly royals the 2016 presidential race and i think complicates the narrative that liberal interest groups and clinton supporters have been making that schweitzer is just kind of this partisan warrior simply out to get hillary clinton. >> but also -- >> ted cruz doesn't like jeb bush any more than he likes hillary clinton. >> it also undercuts that narrative, too, that we had schweitzer on this show remember, willie when he came on with steve kroft. he did that explosive "60 minutes" investigation that showed all the insider trading on capitol hill. again, this is what the clinton team does. if you say anything negative,

they come after you you viciously. and anything to distract from the facts. here a very well laid out "new york times" piece. that i'm actually going to read before i judge. >> and he shared his information, josh, with the "new york times" and the "washington post". to believe that conspiracy, you have to believe the reporters from the "times" and "post" also have an anti-hillary agenda and now an anti-jeb bush agenda. >> and schweitzer was concerned of a mischaracterization of his relationship with the "new york times," the "washington post" and abc news. what he told me was he had reached out to certain investigative reporters at these news agencies and said not just take what i've written and publish it but take this essentially as a lead. go out, do your own investigative reporting, add to the story and let's essentially get more sunlight more information into some of the

shady foreign financial dealings. and i think that's what you see? joe becker's piece in the "new york times" this morning. >> so do you think, howard, that the "new york times" is like a right wing hit piece against hillary clinton? >> first of all, i think the accusations are somewhat different between bush and clinton assuming this is what is going on. the accusations about hillary are that she -- that the clinton foundation took nonprofit cash, none of which went into their pocket and then in quid pro quo, she supposedly did something for all these donors that gave to these causes. >> but -- >> can i finish joe? >> but you've said it so i'll add a little footnote on that. they also get paid money by some of these people for giving speeches, $550,000. >> that's true. >> but you say -- i have to put the footnote on the second time you do that talking point. >> i think that's a la skrit mate inquiry. but the allegation about jeb bush, and i'm not saying any of these are true is that he personally made money by dealing with all these folks.

nonetheless, this is the problem here. i'm not going to accuse the "new york times" of having bias. they do everybody has bias. but there is -- the author is getting money from donors big donors billionaires who support ted cruz. that is a problem. >> you're going back to the author? >> but that's a fact. >> that has nothing to do with the "new york times" -- the "new york times," "newsweek," other publications are following these leads. you can try to trace it back to an author but you're actually going to have to condemn the "new york times," joe becker and mike mcintyre because they're the ones that wrote this story. >> first of all, i haven't seen the story and neither have you. >> well, i have. >> the last 35 minutes, i don't have a laptop here. but i will say that there is an epidemic of really sloppy reporting that goes from the top

to the bottom about people who put stuff this before they're ready to get all the facts. and i'd like to see what all the facts are here because so far we haven't really -- >> why didn't you read the story before you accuse the "new york times" of being sloppy. >> because in general "new york times" has been sloppy. particularly their politicality times. by the fifth paragraph in any political story, we could probably find one right here whatever the political story on the front page is by the fifth paragraph, they're substituting their judgment for real facts. >> i consider you a good friend of mine. i think it is unbe coming for you to come on this show and to just reflexively attack everybody that tries to bring up any information that goes against what you want people to hear about hillary clinton. >> george w. bush that's what they do. >> jeremy peters. >> well, howard would you say that i'm a sloppy political "new york times" journalist? i think that is an overly broad

generalization that made lines my colleagues and i think it's unfair of you. i've dealt with you an awful lotlines my colleagues and i think it's unfair of you. i've dealt with you an awful lot and i don't think you would call me sloppy. >> i would not, but there are present of time who write that i think are incredibly sloppy and i could name a lot of them. including some correspondents well-known correspondents on various network, one of which cover this had story who basically put up stuff -- i've been threatened by reporters that they were going to run a story that they knew wasn't true and i knew wasn't true unless i produced evidence to prove in athat it wasn't true. that's what you learn when you run for president. >> we're talking about one thing here and this is whensis when james carville came organization you said look at the moon look at the moon, look at that cow. it's always look at something else. so let me just ask you. do you have any bad dealings with joe becker or mike mcintyre? >> i do not. >> okay. but that's what we're talking

about this morning. >> do you think bill clinton should take $500,000 for a speech in moscow while all these other dealings are going on and hillary clinton is -- >> i don't know the circumstances of that. >> yes or no, is that a legitimate question? >> i have to idea. you have to know the circumstances. >> that's all i need to hear. >> johnnathan capehart your newspaper has not been maligned yesterday, but it will be if they dare to -- i have to say we're seeing this in real time how the clintons they wonder why they get bad press and it's because they bring it on themselves. if you ever question them on very legitimate -- which the time the first to admit, it will take me a while to sit down and read this article and sift through it and draw the lines. because it's very complicated. which means maybe it won't stick with voters. but they will go out and made line oig reporter, made line newspapers. that's what they do.

>> one i will -- i know one of the two reporters on this story and joe becker is a solid reporter. seeing her name in the byline made me pay extra reporter to it because she's such a solid reporter. but it shouldn't surprise anyone that the clinton team and clinton supporters would reflexively go out and defend them. they have been doing is it for 20 something years. and also the other problem that we have here is we're talking about a book that has yet to be released, it doesn't come out until may 5. we're talking about a huge story that just hit, what 45 minutes ago. so i haven't read it yet. you're reading it in between bits and pieces of the conversation. so there is a bit of a fact or information void that is here and that allows all of us to talk about all of these things without knowing exactly what is there. and then the other problem here is in the absence of facts and

information, we also have nothing but denials and reflexive push back from the clinton camp. and so maybe a month from now or two months from now candidate clinton will step forward and talk about in detail all of these stories and all of the dealings. but until then we'll have a lot of this cotton candy arguments. >> can i jump in? i actually have read the "new york times" story. i got up this morning and read it. and one of the things that is disclosed in the story is that the clintons got millions of dollars in donations that weren't disclosed as they had agreed with the obama administration they would do. so there are serious charges. he wrote a very well regarded book about the bushes, he wrote a book about insider trading in

congress that led to the bipartisan stock act of 2012. he tends to kind of get smeared, but it's worth remembering this is a serious guy who has done serious work that led to a serious article. and to jonathan's report, the one thing we haven't seen is in ib from the clinton world come out and rebut the charges and say here is why they're wrong, here's why we took this money. >> here's what really happened. yeah. >> that's the next step in the story. >> you've interviewed him you've looked into this. is he a man an agenda, is he bank rolled by people who support ted could you seeruz? >> i don't think there is any question schweitzer is a conservative. people should read it and make up their minds for themselves. but most of what is in the "times" story is out there in the public record. people knew about some of these characters in the book, various newspapers have done individual reporting as i understand it what the book really does is collect all the stuff and put it together. but i don't think it's quite accurate to portray schweitzer as simply a republican with a

grievance against democrats or he wouldn't be out doing this big investigation of jeb bush. and it's also worth pointing out since we're talking about the "times" involvement and other newspapers, schweitzer told me he is going to do the same thing, try and partner with interested news articles that want to further these stories that he's investigating. >> i don't think this is an unfair question. you just whacked bill clinton for taking $500,000 from moscow and the reason -- >> we asked whether that was a legitimate question to ask. >> certainly is a legitimate question to ask. so you ask that question. why is it not legitimate to question the fact that the author of this book got a whole bunch of money from ted cruz's people? >> you can do that but the question is it a fact that he received that money and is that okay. and i will just say my brother serves as ambassador. his wife is a blogger, a writer. and she has a could rear.areer. she has to check everything she does with the state department

and she does so willingly supportingly of him. she has to put her career in check literally because her spouse. i think it's more than a legitimate question. forget the author. let's make sure if the facts are true fwheed towe need to pursue that. you can go on your jihad against the author but it won't change the facts. >> i'm raising the same questions about the author. >> if it's a clinton tell-all where a guy goes i talked to the secret service agent and they told me the clintons would sacrifice cats on the third nooner eclipse of the fourth month of the seventh year that's one thing. but as john says if you take public documents and it's all written down there and you have it all together and then you hand that over to the "new york times" or the "wall street journal" and the "washington post," and they go and they do their investigations, there is not a lot of -- suddenly the person that gives you that

information is not really la legitimate as long as it's public records and you have independent parties piecing it all together. >> the foundation has done amazing things for the world. >> and also amazing things for the chinlintons. and they have gotten extraordinarily rich. and it's an intertwining of all these relationships that causes this are horrible concern and problem. and we will see if the same is for jeb bush. i think that's one of the problems when you have these american monarchies that pass power down from one person to another person to another person and there is all this self-dealing on the side. that's a real problem. >> still ahead on "morning joe," lawrence o'donnell joins us and we'll see if joseph stiglitz agrees with hillary clinton's assessment that small businesses have stalled out. and later, ronan farrow sits down with cecily strong.

>> she's great. >> she'll give a sneak preview of what we can expect saturday night. lawrence o'donnell joins us and ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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welcome back. let's take a look at some morning papers. baltimore sun, there new information in the case of the baltimore man who died after suffering a spim injure ing aing a ing aing a ing aing a spinal injury. five of the six officers involved have given statements and the union lawyer says based on those statements, he believes freddie gray was not secured in the police van after his arrest. the police commissioner in will baltimore also answered questions about why it took more than 40 minutes for officers to call an ambulance after gray requested medical help. >> when you have someone who is in your custody and they complain and say they want medical care let's get them medical care. we're not doctors. we're not professionals.

what i've been told now had intentions to take him to the hospital but at that time i expect them to get a paramedic there. >> police say they also are interviewing the second person who was inside the police van with gray. officials say they consider him a witness and are withholding his identity to protect the integrity of the investigation which they expect to conclude next friday. >> jonathan capehart obviously this national epidemic this national crisis continues. and, and there are elements of this that are every bit as disturbs as any one of these other stories that we've seen. >> yeah. and again, almost the same answer i gave in the clinton discussion i'll give here. there was an information void from city officials, over the week that freddie gray was in the coma from the time he was arrested and was in that coma

it wasn't until freddie gray died that they came out and did a press conference that that didn't placate anyone because they didn't give out enough information and the way they did it, our story today in the "post" had quotes from residents who thought that the mayor was a little too calm that a person from baltimore lost their life at the hands of the cops? that there should be some kind of anger shown, some kind of emotion. whether that person was black white or asian as the person said in the story. >> and making matters worse, i heard that a police union representative went out and accused a peaceful group of protesters much acting like a lynch mob. you want to talk about the racial racial, his words were disgusting. >> his words are beyond

unfortunate. he's a union official so the fact that he'll defend police officers is a given. but what the community has a problem with is there is someone dead, someone's child is dead under questionable circumstances. let's not forget that freddie gray, according to the lawyer for the family his spine was nearly severed at the neck. something happened. and no information is coming from the mayor, no information is coming from the police commissioner, both of whom are african-american. no information is coming out that can answer that question not only for the gray family but for the people of baltimore who by all accounts and all the stories that i've read and watched, they have a serious issue in their relationship with the police. >> okay. jonathan, thank you. and baltimore clearly has its struggles. i was there yesterday, though i spoke at the united way of central maryland's women's leadership council. really good things happening

there, as well. and incredible women and business owners an leaders there. but clearly a big issue in baltimore and across the country. >> another interesting thing about this this is obviously race is part of everything but this is not actually -- this is about the police and the community and pretty much all it's about. and that's a good thing because in the ferguson problems and all these other problems when the issue of race gets involved you have to sort out the really big important problem and this can only be fixed when you have real community policing. obviously that's not what is going on. >> we'll be talking to veteran baltimore reporter jane miller about the case. she has reporting on the man in the back of the van with gray. and yesterday, we showed you why senator rand paul called senators lindsey graham and john mccain lap dogs. the lawmakers are now responding and they're not holding back. >> not a surprise. so, what brings you to jersey? well, geico's the #1 auto insurer in new jersey, new york and connecticut.

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senator paul is the worst possible candidate of the 20 or so that are running on the most important issue, which is national security. and i would hope that good sense would prevail here because the realities of the world today does not allow for the isolationist policies. we've already seen what happens from, quote, leading from behind leading from far behind.

and that's what rand paul would do. >> at the end of the day, i like senator paul but of all the people running for president on our side i think he's the worst possible person to send into the arena to combat brahm'sarack obama's foreign policy because he's been more wrong than obama. >> i don't think they like rapped paulrand paul. i don't know. >> hillarytruman got off a train and the dog was after him and he said put him down as undecided. you can put those two down as undecided. >> they took the bait. they have gone out of their way, lindsey graham will not be asked about rand paul. they're trying to torpedo him. >> jeremy peters, i think is just act one, scene one, of a very, very long play.

>> exactly. and don't think that this is coincidental. notice the language that both mccain and lindsey graham are using. it's the same. and that's because there is a very active involved effort on the neoconservative side of republican politics right now to take out rand paul. and it's more than just going after his foreign policy as naive and reckless but it's about sending a signal to the republican party at large that it is not okay to be perceived as squishy on national defense. we'll see a lot more of this. >> national journal is out with its latest power rankings where official and possible candidates are ranked based on individual strengths, political organizations, polling and odds they even run. the headline for the latest edition, rubio on the rise. the florida senator moves up from third into a tie for second thanks to a successful announcement and rollout.

he also gets praise for effectively setting up a, quote, generational contrast with hillary clinton. ted cruz moves up due to his own announcement as well as the reported $31 million already committed to pro cruz super pacs. rand paul moves down a notch with the journalist citing the testy exchange with savannah guthrie as an example of his questionable temperament. and further down the list, a green arrow next to chris christie thanks to a successful swing in new hampshire. and john kasich moves in to the top ten. any surprises? >> not really. you go back to the top five and you see those top five and it's basically the field versus jeb bush. and so i actually based on everything i saw up in new hampshire, that list looks dead-on. like i said, nobody is excited about jeb bush sitting at number one, but jeb has money, he has

the establishment, that usually carries you through a republican primary. but scott walker, marco rubio, who is the real star up there, ted cruz that set the crowd on fire very well there, and rand paul has his strong believers, too. but howard you've been through this. and you were -- i remember you being interviewed on "meet the press" well before you were even known nationwide. you were sitting at 2%. and yet you made a great run. and are were the favorite to win by the fall and early winter of 2003. how do you get from like number ten, number nine number eight, into the position where you can strike and win? >> there are some similarities between what happened on our side in 2004 and what is happening on theirs. because you have a frontrunner that people are not that excited about inside the party, it is true that somebody who has got a passionate connection with the

base can soar to prominence which is what i did. interestingly in both parties at least certainly in the 2004 election the default position is the front-runner, the person people know, they're comfortable with and so forth, so on. so who knows what will happen. but it is true that in the 2016 republican primary, you could get one of these people who really has a connection with the base, a ted cruz, maybe rand paul. >> and the dynamic you had people start worrying about you. it was dick gephardt, right? you started fighting each other and going back and forth. john kerry just sort of glided on by you. >> yeah, everybody was hammering me. i was reminded since we had the tiff about the media early, after i lost and i had to drop out, the media, somebody made t-shirts and said the establishment media, we have the power. >> exactly. >> all the press guys. >> nothing personal at all.

>> very few people remember now but howard held a press conference the morning after in wisconsin. and those words still ring in my ears. you won't have nixon to kick around anymore. >> that's right. >> ahead lawrence o'donnell will be here. and up next congressman tom cole will join the conversation. your pet... could you love him any more? probably not. but now you can give them even more when you save with sentry® fiproguard® plus. with sentry® fiproguard® plus, your pet is just as protected against fleas and ticks as with frontline® plus. because sentry® fiproguard® plus has the same active ingredients but costs less than vet prices. and saving money helps you buy... (laughs happily) more tennis balls. sentry® fiproguard® plus - available at these retailers.

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breathing down my neck pressuring me into a decision. when i go to the supermarket there's no one pushing me to buy the more expensive cereal. i just want to shop like i do everywhere else. ♪ ♪ as long as people drive cars carmax will be the best way to buy them. welcome back to "morning joe". we're still dissecting the "new york times" story that broke. >> we have howard conceding. >> howard is not conceding. let me give you a couple quick facts. howard will be reading it and we'll -- we've read true ithrough it

several times. there was a deal from a group of canadians who are very close to bill clinton of giving him money. mark halperin says flew him around in jets. they sold nuclear mines to a russian group. it was a strategyic impact. state department signed off on it. and canadian records show that while this russian company got control of uranium one and three separate transactions over four year uranium one's chairman gave the family foundation $2.35 million. and then on the personal side -- by the way that was not reported as was required by the obama administration. and then on the personal side and this is where they get you coming and they get you going, on the person atal side "times"

reports shortly after russians announced their intention, mr. clinton received $500,000 personally for a moscow speech from a russian investment bank that was promoting uranium one. the deal and the stock. >> i don't see how that could happen. >> well, either eatit's the clintons. this is again a "new york times" story that broke 35 minutes before we came on the air here. we'll follow it up -- >> can i make one point? i agree that looks bad and people put that in the paper and talk about it and i've been victimized by that stuff myself. but george bush also gets $400,000 or $500,000 for a speech. so i'm just saying -- >> here you go you're trying to change the subject. look at the cow, look at the cow. we're looking at this story. >> what i'm trying to say is -- >> everybody does it? >> lots of people to this and what we need to find out the facts. first of all, the most

interesting question that has been raised is if this wasn't reported, then we need to find out why. that's worth pursuing. >> we'll keep talking about this. we have a guest right now. we have three hours. sorry. they're yelling in my ear. now we're down to two minutes with our guest which we'll try to sx band out. let's go to tom cole of oklahoma. he's a member of the budget appropriations committee. we're obviously trying to sift through this new "new york times" story that came out 30 minutes ago. sounds like a lot of clinton ben sfak tore fep tack informations and friends have been piling cash to the clinton foundation and also giving bill clinton half a million for a speech. looks like this has all come together in an unholy allyiance in my opinion. a lot of questions out there. >> hey joe, i don't want to interrupt you and howard dean. it's great stuff. who am i to interfere in this exalted exchange. but look, you'll have these kind

of questions. and i think the mystifying thing is always knowing that hillary clinton was going to run, why were you doing this series of things that you you knew would come back and bite you at the beginning of the campaign. anything from the e-mail server to accepting foreign contributions in the foundation to these sort of close call of things that will demand scrutiny. so it's mystifying because she is a political blowpro, but this is a rookie performance. if you're going to ing to run. >> congressman, let me ask you about other business you're taking care of. i'm going through some of the things you're working on including a plan to try to save social security. that's been a third rail for a lot of people in american politics. how big do you think that problem is and what do you propose to do about it? >> it's guy began tick and we're ignoring it. we know the fund goes bankrupt. and it seems like it's a long way away 2033 but it's impacting the discretionary budget how because we're not

bringing as much money in as we're spending so we're cashing in the trust funds. that means you have a big hole every year in things like transportation, defense, education. so the quicker we deal with it the better off we'll be. john delaney, democrat from maryland, great guy, and i have a bill and it's not a plan it's a process. we go back and look at what was going on in 1983 when reagan tip o'neill and howard baker sat down around the table. we reconstruct the commission. it has to have a bipartisan majority to report anything out. and then at the goes to congress for a straight up or down vote. the leadership would get behind it, i actually think you can always defend saving social security. you're not a very good politician if you can't go home and say i'm going to help save the most popular program in america. but people worry about it and certainly a lot of third party groups mobilize around it. but we need to get serious and deal with it. >> congressman, can we ask you a little bit about the trade deal that has been discussed and debated over in the past few days? there are democrats and republicans, some, who are

concerned that it hurts jobs here at home. can you explain how it does or does not? >> well, i don't think it does. look i think free trade almost always fosters growth. there is always an argument about what the distribution of the growth and the opportunities are. you either trust your workers and your businesses to compete or you you don't. you either trust free markets or you don't. i do in both cases. for instance a place like oklahoma, free trade deal with asia, we'll export an awful lot of wheat and cattle and agricultural products. we'll export petroleum equipment. frankly, we think we ought to be in the business of exporting petroleum again. so again i think we would mostly be winners. i think our high tech industries would be. but look, the other side doesn't sign an agreement with the thought that it's not going it on get it-to-get anything out of it. so you have to trust the negotiator. in this case the president. the republicans appear to have more faith in the president on this issue than the people in his own party do.

hopefully enough democrats are will get it through. >> all right tom, thank you so much for being with us. we're so sorry we didn't have more time here. but howard and i will not go back to debating this. coming up, another incident involving the secret service. george h.w. bush had to wait an entire year to fix a very common safety measure. we're back in a moment. i have a wandering eye. i mean, come on. national gives me the control to choose any car in the aisle i want. i could choose you... or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. you exercise. you choose the salad.

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coming up at the top of the hour, the select committee report on the benghazi attack may be delayed until 2016. is that proof that politics are at play? and why ben gaz ti mayghazi may be the least of hillary clinton's problems. the reports that raise questions about the clinton foundation and speech payments to bill. and a new leader at the top of the field for the republican party. you may be surprised. >> you called it. >> find out who it is. like it used to? new neutrogena hydro boost water gel. with hyaluronic acid it plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin. hydro boost. from neutrogena. you drop 40 grand on a new set of wheels, then... wham! a minivan t-bones you. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it. "depreciation" they claim.

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welcome back to "morning joe" joe". a beautiful shot of new york city. jeremy peters and john thannathan capehart are still with us. and joining the conversation -- >> thank god. he's in the clinton defending chair. >> taking over for howard dean. >> do you need the talking points? >> i haven't gotten my talking points yet. >> we'll print those out. >> just read them. >> from a campaign memo. >> the new york "post" has the talking points? >> politico first got these. the book "clinton cash" was backed by koch brothers linked organization and a billionaire family that is bank rolling ted cruz's presidential campaign. >> that sounds familiar. >> i thought we heard that.

>> in the last hour. >> here are the talking points. can we practice? let's practice. are you ready? we'll practice. ready? hillary clinton -- cut me off, go ahead, read the talking points. are you ready? hillary clinton -- >> koch brothers. >> damn. >> i believe that's all you have to say. >> he's gotten me again, willie. >> look, the problem this morning is not with the book. the problem is with the "new york times". >> exactly. >> so some of the information has been used in the book and maybe first assembled in the book. but the new problem is the "new york times". >> okay. >> we have peter baker, he's chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" with us. and best selling author and combat veteran of the u.s. army wes moore. >> hi wes. >> so really quickly what we have here, and we've been talking about the "new york

times" story, the alert went out at 5:35, there was a cell -- do we have the story? >> yeah let's just read it. i'll jump right into it. >> read the story? it's a mile long. >> no no the story is a mile long. >> stay with me. "new york times" story claims the clinton foundation received millions as russia pushed for control of a canadian uranium company. stay with me. canadian records are cited to show the chairman of uranium one made hornmore than $2 million in donations which reportedly the clinton foundation did not disclose and it's alleged other people connected with the company donated, as well. and that a kremlin-connected bank promoting stock in the company soon paid bill clinton a 5 00 $500,000 for a speech in moscow. >> the bullet points here really

quickly, the canadians wanted to sell some of the most important uranium mine in the world to the russians. it's only uranium. but because it is actually uranium and there is national security implications, you have to get signed off by the state department. they got signed off by the state department. at the same time when hillary clinton was there, at the same time that the canadian records show that the canadian company that wanted to make the sale to russia chus which was a national security problem wrote checks for $2.35 million and then on top of that when the deal was done bill clinton was invited to moscow and speak to a bank that was behind the deal. and he got paid $500,000. >> do i want to try to give you a few more facts or is it too much? it's worth repeating. so several u.s. agencies ultimately had to approve the deal because uranium is a strategic asset, including the state department headed by hillary clinton. the "times" report also claims

that this guy canadian tone nor who pledged over $100 million to the foundation, a mining xeb sif executive, had bill clinton by his side and they flew together to kazakhstan. i can go on -- >> we've read it. a couple days ago i said offset is there really anything here and mark id who couldn't be with us today. he said look at the canadian mine leader. and look at that relationship. he said i predict something is going to blow up on that. and here we are three days later. a lot of people must have money what mark has been hearing. >> having set the table with all of that, the question ultimately becomes state department approval of this uranium deal. was there anything wrong with it. what is very likely this is my guess as i sit here this morning, the state department headed by anyone would have approved that at that time.

>> how do you know that? >> i think. i'll place a bet but i won't tell you why we probably won't ever know the answer to this. but my bet is that there is an advisory chain of e-mail in the state department that can tell us exactly how this decision was made. and it is probably -- >> the e-mail chain? are you being sarcastic? >> no, i'm not. we will get a lot of that e-mail because obviously trillion behere will be an investigation of this. well we will get the advisory information. it is probably a majority in favor, there might be some dissent. but ultimately this decision is controlled by the white house. >> there is also scrutiny on spouses and what they do every step they make. >> i agree. wouldn't it be much better if the secretary of state wasn't involved in any story that could possibly suggest any undue influence on this decision?

yes. >> and here you're talking about the transfer of millions and millions and millions of dollars to the clintons. some personally and some in the foundation. >> i'm just pointing out the part we don't know is did this actually change the outcome in the state department. ed i would doubt that. >> peter baker you'll remember reporting as you were on the clinton white house in the 1990s. i had set when people talked about monday any characterization that unit with a the scandal. for me the scandal was that bill clinton went around shopping from department to department to department to try to find somebody that would approve the transfer of sensitive missile technology to the chinese because the top donor, peter schwartz, had given him a lot of money. and the state department said no d.o.d. said no rks pentagon, cia said no. and finally ron brown said yes in the commerce department.

i mean again it's the question of these sort of approvals. do they mean anything more than you're going what we call in the law forum shopping? >> well, joe, you have a great memory. obviously this does harken back to a number of the issues we had in the 1990s. and that was before the clintons had this foundation and before they had the kind of money that they have now in their post-presidential life. and i think that there are a lot of questions that could still be asked about this story. larry is right, we don't know exactly what happened inside the state department. there are more questions to be asked. but it does suggest that there will be these questions. this money apparently was not disclosed, this contribution from the canadians. why not. and so many millions of dollars have been contributed to the foundation by people who have interests in the united states government and certainly in who the next president will be. an hillary clinton will have to

explain how that won't be an issue for american taxpayers and voters when they go to the polls. >> first of all, secretary of state does not unilaterally approve trade deals. so if you believe she was engaged in a quid pro quo, you have to believe that she had a lot of help to push that along. she's for the justnot just rubber stamping. but more broadly, it's not enough for hillary clinton's campaign to tar the author, or anybody who comes after them. they need to specifically defend themselves against the charges. and they have begun to do that. on this one colombia trade deal, they said she was actually opposed for the deal for years while that money was coming in and later changed her position as secretary of state when the deal was changed. so i think you'll see more substantive defenses than we've seen earlier. >> but two of the bigger

problem, one that they didn't get approval. guidelines suggested they had to have approval and they did not get approval for this massive deal. and number two, bill clinton then for the half a million for a speech to a bank that was intimately tied in this uranium one deal. >> that's right. and i actually rode on a plane with president chin to beinglinton back in 2009 he's been close with frank jis take for a long time. now, do these people want something out of him? that's a good question. we don't know the answer in many of these cases. but whether isthere is certainly going to be a number of these relationships that they have to explain and figure out a way to settle concerns that will be raised by not just their political opponents, but by people who have concerns about how government is going to operate under the next administration. >> there is a lot of things that

this administration has put in place that are really tight in terms of appearance and conflict and trying to push away or even not allowing spouses to do things. because it may appear to show a conflict. so that is where i think -- >> and you talked about your brother who works for the state department. you tried to give -- >> oh, no. i wanted to give her clothes or something. but they were like, no. sfwr and you said you can't do it because offof disclosure forms. she has a career and she's a writer and -- >> what i like about that story, they're playing so far inside the line. they can actually accept gifts from family members, but they done don't want to because they don't want the question. and that's the way you should handle things in government. where is the line and i'll play way inside it. >> so reuters also is it reporting that hillary clinton's family charities are refiling at least five tax returns to correct a series of errors and

that they may also audit other clinton foundation returns. >> jeremy peters, these stories are going to keep coming and keep coming not because the "new york times" is biased against the clintons. they will keep coming because they never play inside the lines. they just don't. i mean especially on money. it's just been -- >> there is the issue of not disclosing the money the found days took which hillary clinton made an agreement with the obama administration that they would disclose these things. and she didn't. and she also violated the state department and the obama administration directive on e-mail and the preservation of e-mail on state department servers. that was the president's idea. so the two things that exist this both of those stories, e-mail and this, is there was a rule about how to ham something. and secretary clinton did not follow that rule. >> and then bill clinton made half a million dollars on a

quick speech with interests in this deal that they helped push through. >> that is the point that lawrence and peter were just making. this money was not reported. why was it not reported? we don't know the answer to those questions yet. and i think that issue is going to be obscured by all of this character assassination you're seeing when in fact the real question is not about peter schweitzer it's not about whatever book he may have written about disney before. i've met peter schweitzer myself. he has strong working relationships with a lot of journalists in washington. and he has an ideology certainly, but i wouldn't say he's an ideaologueideologue. what we're seeing consistently from the clinton world there appears to be no criticism of her leadership of the former president's leadership that is legitimate. and that is going to be a real problem going forward. because they're basically saying off-limits. anything you want to say, anything you want to report about their background you're

biased. you have an ax to grind and you're part of the vast right wing conspiracy. >> i have to ask a question. because i had somebody -- >> it's your job joe. ask the question. >> and i open it up to anybody here. i had somebody that runs a major network call me yesterday and say, joe, i got a question for you. because you know "morning joe," it's where america leaders start. so who are you going to call? >> you want to know anything you call joe. >> in this guy right here. anyway, he said why is isn't anybody running against hak? there are 44 democratic senator 18 democratic governors. think of the retired democratic governors and senators. and before he even knew this

story was coming out, he said there will be so many explosions between now and next year. why doesn't somebody do what bill clinton did in 1991 when george h.w. bush had a 90% approval rating and everybody was scared to run against him. they jumped in and because he jumped in bill clinton was president of the united states. and that was worth $200 million. >> two reasons. one is for position in the fors which is still prohibitive for any challenger. the other is what this story is about, which is money in politics. and clintons are the masters of money in politics. >> barack obama wasn't afraid. >> that was the part that -- when i saw the first obama financial disclosure report, i said being ookay, he can win. because if he could raise the money, which nobody else could, he could beat her. but i don't think there is anyone out there who looks at this situation and says i can raise the money i need to run against hillary clinton. >> speaking of polls, a new

quinnipiac university poll out this morning shows that the youngest member of the gop presidential field is on the rise. senator marco rubio sits in first place. in this latest q poll of republican primary voters. jeb bush and scott walker are the only others to crack double digits. rubio also performs best in a hypothetical general match scrum-up with clinton leading by just two points. jeb about yourbush trails her by seven. in the democratic field, clinton maintains an overwhelming lead of 50 percentage points. but when asked if she's honest and trustworthy, 54% of voters responded no. >> wes moore, only 38% say she's honest and trusttrustworthy. i suspect as the "new york times" stories continue those numbers will go down even more. that's a real problem for her. >> it's a real problem. what you see is also

highlighting what was being spoken about earlier. they have to get ahead on. a major issue in this year's campaign will be especially post citizen united is what the role of money and influence in politics. and you see it because one of the first things you talked about is addressing this exact issue. and so this is where you have that issue that is going to come into perspective. the other thing, though, as we think about what exactly is going to be the general election match-up is this is where the primary conversation does become important. she knows there has to be a way of being somewhat battle tested before going this to that general election campaign. because as you see the themes that are coming up amongst the election campaign especially amongst the gop candidates these are issues not going away anytime soon. >> i have three words for you. draft wes moore. >> exactly. >> very simple solution. >> baltimore's finest.

>> is there a trustworthy question about anyone else in the poll? i hope they are. politician does not score well on honest and trustworthy. so these at 54she's at 54%. i'm sure that's not wildly out of line with the republican candidates. >> joe biden saying i've put in 40 years, done everything anybody can ever do and i have to sit and watch this and nobody no one is mentioning my name. >> he would be running if it weren't for hillary clinton. >> hillary clinton is by far the most well-known, as well. so that honest and thrustrustworthy conversation, you are right, that will skew that number. >> peter baker, what is your take on these polls? >> well, you can ask president backhmann or president cain.

there is a dominant frontrunner the way we're used to seeing. marco rubio had his announcement he did very well obviously. jumped up a number of points. on paper he certainly has a lot goe going for him. youth and energy and very key battleground state. hispanic background. he is a fresh face as opposed to his mentor jeb bush. obviously he will have to overcome his challenges which is lack of seasoning and a worry i think that people will compare him to president obama which is to say another one term senator who presents well, but hasn't necessarily been seasoned the way other candidates have. so that's the fascinating thing about the republican primary. we'll see a lot of frontrunners over the next few months. >> how concerning is that 38% number for hillary clinton, honest and trustworthy? does that go up and down or is it harder to get the number back up again if you start getting

into the 30s? >> it certainly goes in one of her biggest challenges. she spent four years as secretary of state recasting herself as a stateswoman, somebody who was above politics. kind of refashioned her image i think after a bruising in 2008 presidential campaign and senate career. and now she's back in the political mix. so that's why the e-mail thing had as much traction as did because otherwise it's a process story. but in fact it went to the people's concerns that they have had about her and about the clintons in general for a while. she's got a lot of time to overcome that, they have a lot of advantages in her campaign. but that's one issue she'll have to address. >> was there panic in the bush campaign this morning seeing marco rubio on top of bush? >> i think there is. the bush campaign is so buttoned up that if there were panic, they would not let anybody know. but i think there is some real concern. >> what do they do now?

>> at some point they will have to make the decision whether to go after marco or not. from all the reports i get they're very good at opposition research. any questions about marco have to do with his finances when he was speaker of the house, they can get to information that nobody else has been able to get to because they were so hooked in with the republican party. so if this gets too unconfident about for them, expect to start seeing stories with how marco rubio spent -- used his credit card which we've heard a lot about as speaker of the house from 2005. >> old stories rehashed. >> but you'll get -- the "new york times," when you become the front runner suddenly the new york times, washington post, they will do those stories. >> you want to be like secretariat, lay low in the backkck and then race to the front. but right now i think jeb's team is really surprised.

i'm surprised by how well marco sdw does with the press. there was a review side by side hillary clinton walks through an airport, there is all the entourage, they're following her. and she blows past head down. and then marco comes up with a backpack. and they're asking questions about rap. >> what i thought was his best moment so far, he was asked would you attend a guy wedding. and he basically said, yeah, sure, if i knew the person. and he did it in a human way, relaxed way. answered the question. didn't try to tie it up in politics. just answered the question. and i thought, okay if you're able to continue to do that and it doesn't alienate the republican base -- >> that's a fine talent. peter baker, thank you very much. jeremy peters thank you as well. >> jeremy way to defend your newspaper. you defend the "times" on like

tuesdays and wednesdays, i'll take care of will hursts thursdays and fridays. >> i think howard dean is still nursing the grudge against the media. >> might have been a little personal. i don't know. he's pretty down the middle. still ahead on "morning joe," it took about a year to fix a broken alarm system at former president george h.w. bush's home. the latest in a series of embarrassing incidents for the secret service. plus new details in the death of a man in police custody in baltimore as five of the suspended officers give their statements. success starts with the right connections. introducing miracle-gro liquafeed universal feeder. turn any hose connection into a clever feeding system for a well-fed garden. miracle-gro. life starts here.

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a government report obtained by the "washington post" restreels that the see sveals that the secret service took more than a year to row praisereplace an alarm service. the system was likely to fail but they rejected requests to replace it.

the 20-year-old system then stopped working in september of 2013 and was not replaced until 13 months later. now, during that span the secret service did ahead an agent to the property. but some inside the agency tell the post that the additional agent was not a sufficient replacement. a secret service spokesman says the agency has already taken steps to fully address the situation. >> about ibizarre. >> adding an agent is no longer reassuring now that we know about -- >> thank you, lawrence. >> we'd actually prefer the alarm to work. >> some of the agents. let's geeo to baltimore. we have new details about the baltimore police officers in the arrest of freddie gray who died on sunday from an awful spinal cord injury while in custody. how that injury occurred and how officers responded to his cries for help may soon be clear. police say five of the six officers involved have now given statements. joining us investigative

reporter for wbal jane miller is outside city hall. jane, good to have you with us. it's a question we've been asking for the last week or so. what happened inside that van? what more can you tell us this morning? >> yeah that will be the key question. and i think honestly at the end of the day, what this investigation will really boil down to is what didn't happen when police officers handled freddie gray inside that van. this will really be a case of what i call scarecare and custody. police officers involved in the arrest and custody, they have a responsibility to make sure three things. make sure he's safe make sure he's secured with a seat belt, and make sure that they get medical attention if it is necessary or he asks for it. and this investigation, this criminal investigation, will boil down to answering those three questions. how the injury occurred may

actually be secondary. we know the injury did occur while he was in their custody and what police did when they you knew he was in some way suffering, in some way asking for help that's where this criminal investigation -- that's what that boils down to. >> do we know when the injury happened? we know what we saw on the videotape. we see him sort of being dragged. it's unclear if the injury had happened before he goes into the van. do we think it took praiselace inside the van? >> we've been reporting on this for almost two weeks and we have a witness who told thaws whatus that what may be the key moments is what i call the second stop. what happens is they chase him down, they put him on the ground handcuff him, search him, drag him as everybody has seen and put him in the van the first time. as he gets into the van, he seems to be under his own power. then they go up the block a bit and they stop and take him out of the van and they put him on the pavement to put leg irons on

him. we have a witness who said after they did that they picked him up and, her word, threw him into the van head first. what will be really interesting is we have the preliminary finding on the autopsy. what other minor injuries, abrasions, scrapes, that would indicate did he slide on something, did he -- may he have slid into the partition in the van because he couldn't control himself. according to the union's lawyer yesterday, the officers have given statements admitted that he was not secured with a seat belt, so that obviously gets us to part of that story, that he wasn't in proper custody. and was obviously just able to kind of float around the back of the van. so i think that there is -- as this continues to unfold, and as we continue to learn more about what the police officer said they gave voluntary statements. whatever they said can be used in court. >> jane, stay with us. i twooptwant to bring in wes moore

a native baltimore. how is this playing in baltimore? >> this is a really tense time in baltimore. and it's tense and heartbreaking. because i think for so many people in baltimore this is something that people had been talking about for a very long time. and as the mayor even said, we were one incident away from watching all the protests happen during the summer. we weren't insulated from that and now this will incident hashwill incident has just happened. and there is a larger frustration not just about the communication after the death, but as jane was talking about, before. from the time he was arrested to the time he actually passed away. and it leads to a question i have for jane. for anybody who is really involved and cares deeply about law enforcement, i would actually argue that you would be want to be at the tip of the speeder at this conversation. because fact is when you're talking about the work of law enforcement, if you aren't able to do things like recruit in the communities that you are actually working in if you're not able to do things like

provide -- get human intelligence and get people to work and cooperate with you, it make a it is a very -- not only tense situation for police but also a very difficult environment for you to do your job. have we heard police voices who are out there in front talking about things like accountability talking about things that we need to review? what is happening and how do we do a better job of making sure these incidents didn't happen again? >> i know you know this community very well. you know this city very well. and i was and you can to go a veteran police officer yesterday who joined the force in the mid-90s. and he said to me back in the day, 20 years ago, making an arrest was the last resort. what we have seen in this city and many urban areas over the past 20 years, zero tolerance policing. we had in 2004 5, 6, in this city under the mayoral term of mar continue owetin o'malley, there were 100,000 arrests per year in a city of 620,000 people. that's a lot of arrests.

those numbers have come down but they are still in the tens of thousands. so rather than a last resort what has happened under zero tolerance policing is a that arrests have become the first resort and you have this very negative interaction going on, dozens and dozens of times day, between plit officers and the citizens in this city and in many other cities. and when that happens, you're going to have bad results some of the time. >> jane, when are we going to get the police reports in this case? >> well, some -- the initial affidavit of why he was chased down and put on the ground, et cetera, that's already out because that's a public record. i don't quite know what the baltimore police commissioner's self-imposed deadline of may 1, that that police investigation is going to conclude on may 1st i find it really odd that there as been a deadline set because there is a lot that is not known about the injury about his condition, et cetera et cetera. what if hidden in the autopsy

report somewhere is some little injury that wasn't obvious at first that says wait a minute, maybe we need to look at that. if you put a may 1st deadline on your own investigation of this case, i don't quite know what that says about how thorough you'll be. i don't know what his plan is. i cannot imagine that the plan here is to turn over the statement thass that have been made by the police officers that were voluntary before there is any kind of criminal case if there is going to be a criminal case. i can't imagine that would go into the public realm. so i don't know. that would an great question. i find it really odd that this may 1st deadline has been set by the baltimore police department to conclude this investigation. that's an awfully short time frame. >> and i can tell youuyou jane is right, too, even after that may 1st deadline there hasn't been an indication as to when the report will be released to the public. that's just the deadline that they want to have the report complete. so truthfully the next six days will help determine what the

next six months will be like in baltimore. >> jonathan capehart? >> jane, i have a question for you. i was fascinated by what you were saying about the number of arrests in baltimore. during ferguson, one of the mind blowing things that came out was the number of arrests versus the number of people in ferguson and how that was sort of the kindling to the good motion ofexplosion of protests and arrests after the death of michael brown. do you have any -- you can put into context that hundred something thousand arrests in a population of 600,000, what kinds of arrests are we talking about? traffic violations an child support payments or more serious -- >> urinating on the sidewalk, urinating in public open container. these petty -- i have referred to in the freddy gray case that one of the controversies of this case is the, quote, pettiness, my word, of the initial stop. what is he doing? he's running from the police.

why? because he knows they will lock him up that's why. they look at him, make eye contact, there's freddie. there was time in policing that they would go up to freddie and say, hey, get off the corner. they wouldn't chase him down and lock him up. >> i have a side thought to this as i watch you cover this story. jane, how long have you been reporting in baltimore? on the beat? >> more than 30 years. >> and i'm telling you you right now, as newsrooms get squeezed and you think about making decisions, that is what the community needs, people like jane who have been around reporting on these stories and stick to it. gritty on the streets. i'm married to an investigative reporter. in is an investigateive report are's conference it in june. and this an example why we need our local investigative reporters and we need to value them. jane, thank you so much.

>> i work for a company that values investigative reporting. >> i love it. i can tell. and i'm proud of our company, too. this is it right here. thank you, jane. we'll be right back. there's some facts about seaworld we'd like you to know. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. we come by almost every day to deliver your mail so if you have any packages you want to return you should just give them to us since we're going to be here anyway it reporters and we need to value we'll be right back.

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sure that we get small businesses starting and growing in america again. we have stalled out. i was very surprised to see that when i began to dig into it because people were telling me this as i traveled around the country the last two years. >> with us now nobel prize winning economist and professor at columbia university joseph stiglitz. author of the great divide. >> good to have you back. >> what do we do about it? >> actually there is no silver bullet. the level of inequality has been building up for 35 years. and from world war ii until around 1980, we were growing very fast but very together. we were converging. but since about 1980 we've been glowing more slowly and diverging. almost all the growth has gone

to the people at the very top. striking statistic is that median in-can half before, half below, the typical american -- lower than it was 40 years ago. a lot of discussion the last few days about the bottom. but this is not about the bottom. >> so the rich have been getting richer, poor getting poorer. average wages have been dropping since 1973. you started to see some of the shock sort of pre-shocks coming'70s. you had globalization, china opens up. all of these things are coming together. what do we do to sort through and what can washington do for take care of some of the inequality? >> my view is this is not just about redistribution.

very clear that the top pay a smaller share of their income. it's not a question of taxing them higher. just asking them to pay the same share of their income. people like warren buffett, mitt romney, pay half the rate that people below them. but the real issue here is the before tax and transfer income. what people get. you were mentioning all these events that happened since late or mid-70s. productivity of american workers has actually done quite well. their productivity has doubled. but wages -- >> but ift cuts against that. i saw a statistic if factories were producing at the same right they produced in 1993 there would be 30 million more people in the workforce right now. there is a double-edged sword to that productivity.

>> that is a double-edged sword, but the real point is the way the national pie is being divided is markedly different. all the benefits of the increase in productivity of their work and investment is going to the top. >> why is that? >> i think it's because of the rules and regulations, the law, a whole set of factors that have gone into it. for instance, one of the things that we've done is we have a corporate governance system that allows the ceos to take a larger share of the national pie. it was that they used to get about 30 times the wage of the average worker. now they get almost 300 times. had they gotten ten times more proceed productive? no evidence on that. and then you have a weakening of unions they're down now to about 10% of the labor force. and their power has been -- >> have we seen a drop in median

income such as you're describing, have we seen it previously in our history? >> not really. >> so we have no notion of how to get out of a phenomenon if we've never experienced it before. >> well, we have a little bit if we can can can do the analysis like i tried to do in my book the great divide. some of the fact areors contributing, and we know a number of those factors that have changed the way our economy operates. weakening the bargaining power of workers, strengthening the discretion of the ceo. financialization of our economy. another example, the financial market is supposed to take money from savers and transmit to firms. we have intermediatation. well what has really been going on is the financial sector has been taking money out of corporations, money that could

have gone into investment, could have gone into paying wages -- >> r and d. >> all those things that make our climate morrowe productive, net flow has been going the opposite way. >> you mentioned the minimum wage. $7.25, 40 hours a week comes ultimate to $15,000 a year. no one who could argue that that is a liveable wage in 2015. the counter argument we've heard it from some presidential candidates already is that if you raise the minimum wage it will cost jobs in america. where do you come down on this? >> that question has been looked at over and over again. >> especially every time we've raised the minimum wage. >> and the answer is no, there are no -- it doesn't cost jobs. like anything, there are a range of studies. but you might say the way the evidence is doesn't cost jobs. the better studies actually some have even shown you gain jobs. one of the reasons is the following. when people don't have any

income, they can't buy things. and if they can't buy things, our economy doesn't function very well. so we're in a situation right now where there is a lack of demand. we productive -- >> but how could there not be? >> to me it seems obvious. >> to you. everyone should read this. the book is the great divide. are any candidates reaching out to you for any type of prep and help? >> yes. >> which ones? >> mrs. clinton has. and of course there are other people who have not and we've talked to them. >> very telling. joseph stiglitz thank you very much. >> nice to see you. up next the latest example that the select committee benghazi information is purely political. we're back with that in a moment. thens teeth, helps prevent cavities and restores tooth enamel. it's an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. listerine® total care. one bottle, six benefits.

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51 past. the house select committee on the deadly 2012 attack in benghazi is facing new criticism this morning that it is a politically-motivated investigation. committee chairman tray goudey says the report will be delayed and likely not complete until 2016. held says the committee is reviewing new documents and cited factors outside of his control. house speaker john with boehner blamed the white house and former secretary of state hillary clinton for the delay. >> i think the benghazi committee is doing fine work and they've got a lot more work to do. they could clean this up a whole lot quicker if the administration and former secretary clinton were in a position to actually cooperate with the committee and turn over the kind of information we've been seeking for some time. but the administration has made it virtually impossible to get to the facts surrounding benghazi. and so when we have the facts, we'll have a report. clinton's attorney however, say they are asking for a public

hearing as soon as possible and clinton's campaign said the delay is evidence that the investigation is solely about playing politics in the 2016 presidential campaign. >> you know, republicans have been complaining lawrence for some time that it's taken too long for this investigation to get launched and moving forward. now we're talking about delaying it until a presidential campaign where hillary clinton seems to be running. certainly on its face it seems to undercut the credibility of the time. >> yeah. at every chance for the republicans to possibly get any credibility on their benghazi investigation they always make the choice toward less credibility on the investigation. at every single cross roads of this thing. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," there's no cure for it or a way to slow it or prevent it. but for the first time there may be hope for a disease that affects more than five million americans. we'll reveal "fortune" magazine's new reporting on this story ahead and much more on "morning joe" in just a moment.

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. up next new scrutiny this morning for hillary clinton and the clinton foundation. did large donations influence the 2016 candidate to support a trade agreement with colombia and a uranium deal with russia? plus why are so many college students joining foreign fighters in iraq and syria? how isis is reaching more and more young adults from middle-class backgrounds. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe."

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we have a lot going on at the top of the hour here. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have the former governor of vermont and former chairman of the democratic national committee howard dean. good to have you. in washington pulitzer prize winning editorial writer for the "washington post," jonathan capehart. on capitol hill "new york times" reporter jeremy peters along with willie joe, and me. governor romney, everybody. >> a lot to talk about, including the story just breaking over the "new york times," a special report from 35 minutes ago that we're going to get to right now. this just keeps going and going and going. >> why don't we try and break

this -- it's a huge article but let's break it down as carefully as we can. there's more information from this upcoming new book called "clinton cash" which looks into foreign donations to the clinton foundation. politico reports that one of the book's chapters alleges that frank justraa, a canadian donor who pled over $100 million to the foundation influenced hillary clinton's stance at the state department. both clinton and senator obama opposed it during the 2008 campaign but by 2009 clinton supported the deal as did the white house. meanwhile, this "new york times" story claims the foundation received millions of dollars as russia pushed for control of a canadian uranium company. canadian records are cited to show that the chairman of uranium one made more than $2 million in donation which is the clinton foundation reportedly did not disclose and it's

alleged other people connected to the company donated as well and that a kremlin-connected bank promoting stock in the company soon paid bill clinton $500,000 for a speech in moscow. several u.s. agencies ultimately had to approve the deal because uranium is a strategic asset, including the state department. a clinton campaign spokesman told the "times" no one "has ever produced a shred of evidence supporting the theory that hillary clinton ever took action as secretary of state to support the interest of donors to the clinton foundation. toll suggest the state department under then secretary clinton exerted undue influence in the u.s. government's review of the sale of uranium one is utterly baseless." clinton is also facing scrutiny after a "newsweek" report that the largest individual contributor to the clinton foundation allegedly traded with iran in breach of u.s. sanctions. victor pinchuck, the fourth

richest man in ukraine, owns an oil and gas pipe company and reportedly attended bill clinton's 65th birthday party in 2011. "newsweek" reports records show a series of shipments from pinchuck's company to iran. so we have a lot of different stories near lead to more of a narrative but possibly some conflicts. >> well -- >> should we look at it that way? >> they're definitely conflicts. there's no doubt. but i think a lot of people have known that there were going to be problems coming into this. democrats certainly knew it. the clintons were getting hundreds of millions of dollars from the characters across the globe, oligarchs across the globe. and at the same time they were getting deals from the clinton state department waivers from the clinton state department. i'll be honest with you. all of this has come rushing in

so quickly but you're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars, you're talking about waivers, you're talking about a very tight, incestuous relationship that there's no doubt going to cause problems. again, this "new york times" article that goes on and on and on and on and on about a very tight intimate relationship between bill clinton and several industrialists who were getting breaks from the state department at the same time and giving millions and millions of dollars to the clinton foundation, that's going to take a while to sort through. >> and also the question will be can that kind of business be being done by a spouse when one is serving in the state department? i think that's a very legitimate question. >> well, you know willie this is something obviously the obama administration was concerned about. they had a memo of understanding. they were hoping that it would stop these sort of conflicts

from taking place. but obviously you look at the "new york times" reporting, you look at the "newsweek" reporting, it's obviously not been able to stop these questions from rising. >> and as you say, there's a lot to sift through. we have russia ukraine, iran colombia, all these separate stories. the question will be this money was give on the the clinton foundation, there's no disputing that. the question will be was there quid pro quo and how do you prove that -- if she did, if hillary clinton did things in favor of these people can you prove it? >> it will be very hard to prove quid pro quo, especially when you're dealing with people like the clintons who have been doing this since 1992 they've been in the national spotlight 1992. they're much smarter. it's always -- they have the vendome defense and they bend to the ground but don't break.

they're very smart people. i want to ask you something, though, this is fascinating. this is obviously the "new york times" big story for the day. it's a special report. it's the top of the web site. just take us behind the scenes in the "new york times." is this reporting that was going on all night, most likely? why did it happen that way? why do you release a story a morning? >> those decisions happen way above my pay grade so i'm not sure the process that went on there. but what i will say is that if you look at all of the various scandals that the clintons will have to deal with whether it's benghazi or the e-mails or the foundation the foundation financial dealings were always the most problematic and they were always the ones that republicans felt had the most "there" there. if you talk to republican ad makers, they'll tell you the e-mail thing is hard to condense into a 30-second ad. there's not a linear thought

there. you can't say she broke the law so what did she do? this foundation business they've taken monies from foreign countries that do not have interests in line with the united states. that is very very much more serious. and that i think, is going to be a recurring storyline for the next 15 months. >> howard again, we don't know the specifics of this story because it's just -- there's a lot coming at us very quickly. can i ask you a quick question about democrats in general? >> you're going to get an earful, of course because i'm going to defend this. >> you can't defend this because we don't know the context of the story. >> oh, yes, you can. i'll tell you. >> so you, like so many other clinton defenders, are going to be able to tell us what's wrong with the "new york times" story before you've read the story and we can consume it? sfnchts >> well -- >> i'll let you reflexively do what james carville and you do and start shooting shotgun

blasts rhetorically. >> i'll never be as colorful as james. part of these stories are trying to conflate the idea that the clintons took person money. none of this is personal. this went to things like reducing malaria and improving people's standards of living. >> i don't think the "new york times" story -- >> i'm not saying it did. but the way it's talked about as if the clintons took this money for themselves. they didn't. this money went to charitable causes and we do as jeremy talked about, the countries have different interests than our own, we talk to those people every day. that's number one. number two, this originally unearthed in this "cash" book by a guy who's the president of something called the general accountability institute which is funded by opponents -- >> so this is a clinton tactic, you're not talking about the facts but you attack -- >> the fact is this guy is employed, is the president of an operation that was funded by people who support ted cruz. >> guy who supports truss

doesn't support anything else. >> josh green spoke exclusively with peter schweitzer, the author of clinton cash. josh, what did you find about where he's going next? >> i interviewed the author of "clinton cash" peter schweitzer author of the controversial book supposed right wing hit man is actually working on a similar investigation of jeb bush's finances with the team of researchers that's going to be published this summer. >> and what's he looking for specifically? >> exactly the same thing. he told me he was looking for exactly the same thing he was looking for with the clintons. to examine their land deals, to examine conflicts of interest cronyism, possible corruption, all the sorts of things that appear to be contained within the clinton cashbook. he's doing the same thing to jeb bush and jeb bush's financial dealings. >> and to add a little meat to those bones i thaw saw an "international business times" story about people trying to

connect bush pioneers those are the people that gave george w. bush $50,000, $100,000 in the 2000 campaign, with people getting -- then moving on and getting deals with florida's pension plan. so trying to sort of connect those dots, too, if he gave to george w. bush, do you have a better chance to invest florida pension money? which is well over a billion dollars? >> and we forget, there's been so much focus on the clinton and the clinton global initiative and all of the millions of dollars kind of sloshing around there. bush himself has far flung global global financial enterprises. i wrote in "businessweek" in december about the private equity funds and the chinese investors jeb was involved with. the author told me that was something he and his team of researchers has been looking into.

so it royalils the 2016 presidential election and narrows the argument that clinton supporters have been making that schweitzer -- >> but ted cruz doesn't like jeb bush any more than that he likes hillary clinton. >> what also undercuts that narrative, too, is that we had schweitzer on this show remember willie when he came on with steve kroft? he did that explosive "60 minutes" investigation that showed insider trading on capitol hill. this is what the clinton team does. if you say anything the negative they come after you viciously. and anything to distract from the factsover here a very well laid out "new york times" piece and i'm going to read before i judge. >> and he shared his information, josh, with the "new york times" and the "washington post" so to believe that conspiracy then you have to believe that reporters from the "times" and the "post" also have an anti-hillary clinton agenda

and now an anti-jeb bush agenda. do you believe they do? >> i talked to schweitzer about that, too. he was, i think, concerned at what he told me was a mischaracterization of his relationship with the "new york times," the "washington post" and abc news. what he told me was he had reached out to certain investigative reporters at these news agencies and said not just take what i've written and publish it but take this essentially as a lead. go out, do your own investigative reporting, add to the story and let's essentially get more sunlight more information into some of these shady foreign financial dealings. that's what you see in joe becker's piece in the "new york times" this morning. >> so do you think, howard, that the "new york times" -- i'll follow up with what willie was going to say. is the "new york times" a right wing hit piece against hick. . no i think these accusations are somewhat different between bush and clinton assuming this is what's going on. the accusations about hillary is that the clinton foundation took

nonprofit cash none of which went into their pocket and then in quid pro quo she supposedly did something for these donors that gave to these causes. >> but -- >> let me finish joe. >> i'm going to add a foot today in. they also got paid money by some of these people for giving speeches, $550,000. so i've let you say that two times. i have to put the footnote on the second time you do that talking point. go ahead. >> i think that's a legitimate inquiry inquiry. but the allegation about jeb bush, and i'm not saying any of these are true, is that he personally made money by dealing with these folks. nonetheless, this is the problem here. i'm not going to accuse the "new york times" of having bias. they do everybody has bias. but the author is getting money from donors big donors billionaires in texas who support ted cruz. that's a problem. that's a problem. >> you're going back to the author. >> but that's a fact.

peter swietschweitzer sr. the president -- >> that has nothing to do -- the "new york times," "newsweek," other publications are following these leads. you can try to trace it back to an author but you're actually going to have to condemn the "new york times." joe becker and mike mcintire. i i. >> i use the "new york times" in journalism classes. by the fifth paragraph, they're substituting their judgment for news. that is a fact. that is a fact. >> howard i consider you a good friend of mine. i think it's unbecoming for you to come on this show and to just reflexively attack everybody that tries to bring up any information that goes against what you want people to hear about hillary clinton. >> they did it to george w. bush. that's what they do. >> jeremy peters?

>> howard, would you say i'm a sloppy "new york times" political journalist? that's an overly broad generalization that maligns my colleagues. i've dealt with you a lot and i don't think you would call me sloppy. >> i would not, but there are plenty of people who write for the "new york times" and every other paper that i think are incredibly sloppy and i could name a lot of them including some correspondents well-known correspondents on various networks, one of which covered this story. i have been threatened by reporters that they were going to run a story that they knew wasn't true and i knew wasn't true unless i produced evidence to prove it wasn't true. that's what you learn when you run for president. >> we're only talking about one thing here and this is what i -- when james carville came on he kept going "look at the moon. look at the moon. look at that cow over there. look at that cow over there." >> you weren't doing that. >> it's always look at something else. so let me ask you, do you have

any bad deals with joe becker or mike mcintire. >> i do not. . >> just curious. because that's what we're talking about this morning. >> do you think bill clinton should take $500,000 for a speech in moscow while these other dealings are going on and hillary clinton is -- >> i don't know what the circumstances of that -- >> yes or no, is that a legitimate question. >> i have no idea. you have to know the circumstances. >> come on! come on. >> jonathan capehart, you're sitting there alone. your newspaper has not been maligned yet. >> oh it will be. >> i have to say, we are seeing this in realtime how the clintons, they wonder why they get bad press. and it's because they bring it on themselves. if you ever question them on very legitimate complex -- which i'm the first to admit it's going to take me a while to sit down and read this article and sift through it and draw the lines because it's very complicated. which means maybe it won't stick with voters.

but, you know they're going to go out, they're going to malign reporters, thatey're going to malign newspapers. that's what they do. >> i know one ever to two reporters on this story and joe becker is a solid reporter. seeing her name in the biline made me pay extra attention to it because she's such a solid reporter. but it shouldn't surprise anyone that the clinton team and clinton supporters would reflexively go at and defend them. they've been doing it for 20 something years. and also the other problem that we have here is we're talking about a book that has yet to be released, it doesn't come out until may 5. so there's a bit of a fact or information void that's here and that alous us all of us to talk about these things without knowing what's there. the other problem here is in the absence of facts and the absence of information, we also have nothing but denials and

reflexive pushback from the clinton camp. and so maybe a month from now or two months from now candidate clinton will step forward and talk about in detail all of these stories and all of the dealings but until then we're going to have a lot of this cotton candy argument. >> joe can i make a point here? >> go ahead. >> i have read the "new york times" story. i got up this morning and read it and one of the things disclosed in the story is is that the clintons got millions of dollars in donations that weren't disclosed as they had agreed with the obama administration they would do. so there are serious charges, there's real reporting here. i think the other thing to remember, too, we've been talking about this campaign this sort of character assassination of peter schweitzer. the guy has written a very well regarded book about the bushes about insider trading in congress that led to the bipartisan stock act of 2012. he tends to kind of get smeared but i think it's worth

remembering, this is a serious guy who's done serious work that's lead to a serious article. and to jonathan's point, the one thing we haven't seen is anybody from the clinton world come out and rebut the charges and say "here's why they're wrong, here's why we took this money, here's why we didn't disclose it." that's the next step in the story. >> you've talked to him and interviewed him, is he a man with an agenda? is he bankroll bid people who support ted cruz? >> i don't think there's any question that schweitzer is a conservative and people should read the book and make up their minds for themselves but most of what's in the "times" story is out there in the public record. people knew about some of these characters in the books, various newspapers have done individual reporting. as i understand it, what the book does is collect all this stuff and put it together. but i don't think it's quite accurate to portray schweitzer as simply a republican with a grievance against democrats or he wouldn't be out doing this

big investigation of jeb bush. and it's also worth pointing out since we're talking about the "times'" involvement and other newspapers schweitzer told me he is going to go out and do the same thing as he did with the clinton book try and partner with interested news organizations that want to further these stories. >> so here's my question and i don't think this is an unfair question. so you just whacked bill clinton for going to take $500,000 from moscow. >> we asked whether that was a legitimate question to ask. >> it's certainly a legitimate question to ask. so you asked that question. why is it not legitimate to question the fact that the author of this book got a whole bunch of money from ted cruz's people? why is that not legitimate? >> you can do that. but the question is is it a fact that he received that money and is it okay? my brother serves as an ambassador. his wife is a blogger, a writer and she has a career. she has to check everything she does with the state department. and she does so willingly, supportingly of him. and she has to put her career in check literally in support of

her spouse. i think these are more than legitimate questions. this could be a problem. >> i think it's a legitimate question mika. >> so forget the author at this point. let's make sure -- if the facts are true we need to pursue that. you can go on your little jihad against the author but it won't change the facts. >> i'm raising the same issues about the author he's raising about bill clinton? >> fine go ahead. have fun. >> if it's a clinton tell-all where a guy goes "you know i talked to a secret service agent and they told me the clintons would sacrifice cats on the third lunar eclipse of the fourth month of the seventh year," that's one thing. but as josh says, if you take public don'ts and it's all written down there and you have it all together and hand that over to the "new york times" and the "wall street journal" and the "washington post" and they go and do their investigations there's not a lot of -- suddenly the person that gives you that information is not really legitimate as long as it's

public records and you have independent parts piecing it together. but we'll keep talking about. >> it the clinton foundation has done extraordinary things for the world. >> and for the clintons. they've gotten rich. let's be clear. it's the intertwining of these relationships that cause this is horrible concern and problem and we will see if the same for jeb bush. i think that's one of the problems when you have these families, these american monarchies that pass power down from one person to another person to another person and there's all this self-dealing on the side. that's a real problem. coming up on "morning joe," why did it take more than 40 minutes to get an ambulance for a man who died in police custody? baltimore's police commissioner has answered that question. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's look at the morning papers and god right to the baltimore "sun." new information of the case of the baltimore man who died after stuffing a spinal injury while in police custody. baltimore police say five of the six officers involved in the case have now given statements. according to our affiliate wbal the union lawyer representing the officers says based on those statements he believes freddie gray was not secured in the police van after his arrest. the police commissioner in baltimore also answered questions about why it took more than 40 minutes for officers to call an ambulance after gray requested medical help. >> when you have someone who's in your custody and they complain and say they want medical care, let's get them medical care. we're not doctors, we're not professionals. what i've been told now is that they had intentions to take him to the hospital but at that time i expect them to get a paramedic there. >> police say they are interviewing the second person inside the police van with gray. officials say they consider him

a witness and are withholding his identity to protect the integrity of the investigation which they expect to conclude next friday. >> jonathan capehart obviously this national epidemic this national crisis continues and this is -- there are elements of this that are every bit as disturbing as every one of these other stories we've seen. >> yeah. and, again, almost the same answer i gave in the clinton discussion i'll give here. there was an information void from city officials over the week that are freddie gray was in the coma from the time he was arrested and was new that coma until he died, from the mayor, from the police commissioner. and it wasn't until freddie gray died that they came out and did a press conference that didn't placate anyone because they didn't give out enough information and the way they did it and our story today in the

"post" had some quotes from some residents who thought the mayor was a little too calm. that a person from baltimore lost their life at the hands of the cops that there should be some kind of anger shown, some kind of emotion. whether that person was black, white, or asian as the person said in the story. coming up on "morning joe," the battle over paper towels and party favors. "fortune" magazine's lee gallagher is here with a look at how the dollar store war was won. still ahead, which 2016 candidate has the biggest potential for laughs. snl star and host of this year's white house correspondents dinner cecily strong weighs in.

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>> i'm feeling sorry for the speaker of the house as well. these days house republicans give john boehner a harder time than they give me -- which means orange really is the new black.

welcome back. isis reportedly has a new leader this morning. "newsweek" reports a former physics teacher favored by osama bin laden has now replaced the terror group's leader who was reportedly injured in an air strike last month. joining us now, professor of security studies at the department of war studies at kings college in london peter newman. he's the founder and director of the international center for the study of radicalization. "fortune's" aleigh gallagher joins us as well. peter, good to have you on board. we've been reporting on the growing numbers of young people from middle-class backgrounds joining isis and you all were mentioned, of course, in the "new york times" magazine piece last sunday which was stunning. are these numbers growing, can

you put in perspective what we're looking at here? >> so we estimate that over the past three and a half years over 20,000 people have gone to syria and iraq as foreign fighters mostly joining isis. that's almost exactly the same number that have gone to afghanistan in the 1980s and we know, of course afghanistan in the 1980s produced al qaeda, produced these networks that kept us busy for decades so the fear, the concern is of course that we will see a very similar thing and that for an entire generation we will have to deal with the consequences of what is currently happening in syria and iraq. >> the numbers of those who join from middle-class backgrounds, who don't fit a stereotype that is easy used. what are -- >> i mean, that stereotype is i don't think, isn't it? >> it appears to be wrong. >> it's always been wrong to assume everyone is poor and uneducated.

now that so many people have gone we have practically every segment of the population represented amongst the foreign fighters, from the no-hoper to the cambridge university educated doctor. >> why? >> why do you -- what do you find drives the well-educated middle to upper middle-class muslim whose parents' only dream was to assimilate into british society. what draws them to cut heads off of people. >> my theory is twofold. one is that you can feel like you're not accepted into society even if you're quite well off. these people often do not feel they have a stake in society. they do not feel they belong. they do not feel they are part of british society. >> so is there -- >> let me just say this. it's really important, it has become a counterculture. what we find so outrageous about it all, the brutality, is to some extent what attracts them and that makes it really dangerous. >> so going to your first point that you were talking about that

they didn't feel as assimilated. is that something the united states seems to do better than -- this isn't jingoism but, you know i can't tell you how many people they emigrate to america and i'm in the back of a taxicab and they go "i am going to be donald trump and soon i will own my own fleet of cars." the second you get here. i have people from britain who have moved here tell me "every time i land in america even though i've lived here for 15 years i feel like i've just landed in the new world and anything is possible." is that part of the problem with britain and france and other countries in europe? >> i think so. i think it is and that's also part of the explanation why you have seen relatively few americans join isis compared to a lot of european countries. the numbers are really small. and when you go to america, you are going to america to stay. you want to start a new life, a new existence, almost. a lot of people came to europe in the past did not come there

to stay and the expectation was not to stay and the attitude of the host society was not that they wanted these people to stay. and so there's no british dream. there's no french dream, there is an american dream. >> but what about the many groups of women who are leaving? women often in bands together. that to me seems -- why are women in particular doing this? >> it's a new phenomenon. i've been studying this for 17 years now. if you'd asked me ten years ago about jihadist women it would have been hard for me to find a single case. now we're seeing a lot of them. i think it has something to do with the internet. it's very difficult for women to become part of that movement because you cannot go to face-to-face meetings but the internet makes it easier for them. and one important thing is that i think it's completely wrong to assume that women because they are women they are passive, they're only going there to become jihadi brides. women that we are watching as

ideologically committed as the men and it's really a case of gender stereotyping almost. we're always talking about the men as terrorists and the women as jihadi brides who go there because they're passive. >> and they get courted in romantic ways as well. these men will say -- kind of start a romantic online relationship to get them as well right? >> one really interesting facet of this is that these t islamic state is really short of women. a lot of fighters have gone there. they have troubles finding the wives that they were promised. that's why the islamic state is trying really hard for women to come over there. >> disturbing. peter neumann, thank you so much. appreciate it come back. still ahead, the race to find a cure for a disease that affects million americans, lee gallagher will have that cover story of "fortune" straight ahead.

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we all enter this world is is. leigh gallagher is back with us to reveal the new issue of

"fortune" magazine. the cover story "also, the race to a cure" looks at how one relatively new boston area biotech company has gotten closest to solving the alzheimer's pusszzle and we values "how the dollar store was one." but this could be it. >> this is big. alzheimer's as probably everyone knows has just been for so long the utter holy grail. nothing has ever worked. it's without a treatment. it's without a cure. it's without anything to prevent. it's devastating. >> it's also -- i read there the magazine it's the number-six killer of people in america. i had no idea. >> and it's the one without a cure prevention or treatment. >> not hope for a cure until now. >> until now. this company biogen which is based in cambridge, they have created -- they use it had genetic information from an anti-body that was derived from patients that were -- people that were elderly but especially sharp and with it and the thinking was whatever is making these people so sharp might be

able to be what we need. so between that and also just testing it the right way, a lot of other tests and many of these similar kind of category of treatments have failed because the tests have been off. when you treat people with alzheimer's disease or test people with alzheimer's you often times catch people that are just suffering from dementia into the net so you can't really -- it throws off the test. and sometimes you test people that are already so far along that the tests don't work. so they tested people that were very early on and what they found that this actually has preventative implications. so that means you might be able to take something the way you take statins for heart disease and that of course, the business community loves that. that's a huge business model, preventative medication is something completely different. >> how far off are we? >> pretty far off. thfrs a this is a phase one trial. they'll skip right to phase three. the earliest if nothing goes wrong, the earliest this could hit the market would be 2018. that's not far away. this is incredible.

and it doesn't mean just this one company will do it because alzheimer's is like cancer one patient might need to be treated many different ways. everybody might need -- patients might need a combination of therapies. >> but alzheimer's is a disease that has just -- as you guys say, the batting average for pharmaceutical companies against also is .000. i mean, there's at least with cannes err 19% p 20% chance. now there's miracle cures that are coming around the corner on brain tumors on leukemia, but now it looks like there's a possibility here. >> it's true. it's very exciting. great story. >> dollar store war. how what is the war and how is it won? >> the dollar stores are so funny. there's so many of them dollar this, dollar that. >> you end up spending $5000 but okay. >> because everything is not just a dollar. but they got their start in the south and for years they were just around there were a few of

them. but what happened, what's interesting is that in the financial crisis this became boon time for these -- for the dollar stores. they exploded. tens of millions of new customers, hundreds of new stores and at one point kkr, the buyout firm came in and bought dollar general and did a leverage buyout that was very successful. after that everyone else wanted in. so this is a great story about how carl icon got involved became the activist investor craze is in high gear and he bought a stake in family dollar but then family dollar was going to merge with dollar general and then -- but the surprise was that dollar tree came in and made a surprised by at the end. >> it's a web. >> all around the race for your dollars. >> i love it. okay "how the dollar store was one." >> we have a great story in here about the technology behind smart guns making guns smarter and safer and the incredible fight to prevent these from getting on the market. >> and why is there a fight to prevent them?

it seems so logical. >> it does seem logical and the technology is there, the technology is an easy part to make you wear a watch so that your child can't get it and accidentally fire it. and it's complicated but it goes back to the gun lobby thinking this is one step closer to gun control and, in fact, there's a law, it's a little arcane in new jersey that was passed that says that as soon as one of these is for sale anywhere in america, as soon as one is for sale, no handguns in new jersey can be sold that aren't this. so they are particularly resistant because as soon as one makes it to the market it has big implications. >> this is a bigger segment. >> you know what that is? that is fascinating because, of course, one of the reasons why so many parents don't have handguns in their house to protect their families is because they don't want it to go into the wrong hands. >> that's a bigger segment. we should do a complete conversation because it could ultimately be good. up next, ronan fairrrow's one on one interview with snl's cecily strong before she hosts

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you have started a conversation. >> that ice what i'm hear for. >> we're always off topic. hi ronan, my daughter is going to freak out when she gets my

text. >> isn't it good to have our son back. >> such a sweet boy. >> it's always a pleasure. i bring the best content to you, to family. >> are you doing well? >> very well. >> "saturday night live" comes to washington and cecily strong will be the host for this year's white house correspondent's dinner and ronan farrow got a chance to sit down with her ahead of the big night. was it fun? >> really fun, she's whip smart, super articulate. a lot of people still mourning the loss of her on the weekend update desk and she has a smart take on the issues. but she's got a softer friendlier approach to her white house correspondent's dinner game plan. she'll need some kind of a plan because it is a tough, tough room. famously so, you and i know washington not always the funniest perhaps. >> not really. >> so she told me about the concerns and anxieties going into that room and how she's responding to it. take a look at this. >> i've heard all of these things which made it so much more appealing. and you have to follow the

funniest president so it's -- i guess those are the things i have to not think about. >> reporter: since the 1940s, the white house correspondent's dinner has featured hosts from bob hope to stephen colbert. >> he believes the same thing wednesday that he believed on monday -- no matter what happened tuesday. [ laughter ] >> yeah i remember when that was live and just being blown away and just thinking he's so amazing and so brave and look what comedy can do. >> events can change this man's believes never will. >> reporter: cecily strong will be only the fourth female comedian to step behind that podium. >> it's not -- don't feel like a huge deal to me. it's a nice testament to kind of where everything stands right now and i think a lot of that has to do with tina and amy being out there so much and it's very accepted. it's nice that it doesn't feel like a big heavy thing for me. >> reporter: we'll see if you feel that way after everyone asks you about your dress and not about your performance. >> right.

well, then i'll feel pretty. >> reporter: you tv got one of the most powerful audiences in the world. the leader of the free world. >> i'm going to ask for a lot of favors. i want an ambassadorship. >> reporter: i think that could happen. belgium here you come. >> oh, yes, waffles. >> reporter: waffle diplomacy, very important. so often in politics not a lot of funny. so you've said the president has some of the best comic timing of any president. >> he does. he's cool too. for that moment the state of the union, when he said "i should know i won two of them." >> i have no more campaigns to run. [ applause ] my only agenda -- i know because i won both of them. [ cheers and applause ] >> and it was an ad-lib apparently. >> i know, that's what you think to say afterwards usually in the moment you're like "you shut up." i'm never that cool. >> reporter: your mom. >> you did.

or something. and then afterwards you're like "i should have said that." >> reporter: he's cool a a cucumber that guy. >> minus the dancing. >> reporter: so when we talk about funny presidents let's talk about the potential next presidents. >> sure. >> reporter: give me your thoughts on ted cruz. very funny president or unfunny president? >> unfunny. >> reporter: rand paul? >> that'd be funny. maybe, yeah, that's a funny president. he's got that goofy little silly dad who's so endearing the. >> reporter: marco rubio funny president? >> oh no not yet. but he can surprise me. >> reporter: hillary clinton. would she make a funny president. >> i think she would try to make a funny president but i don't think if she can be. >> reporter: does she have it in her? >> she wants to. >> reporter: she'll rock the mom jokes. >> she sure will. she'll keep trying. and one of these days one of them will land. >> reporter: cecily it's always a pleasure. >> oh, man, you, too, i'll have a tea party with you any day. >> i'm drink to that.

cheers. >> very nice. lovely. >> she has her work cut out for her. the interesting thing is mika, with that room being as tough as it is sometimes there are speeches that bomb in the room like stephen colbert and then acquire a cult following in years to come. >> it's just a weird dynamic, isn't it? >> the whole institution. >> does she seem nervous? this is a huge deal. >> she says she's extremely nervous but she no longer has time for that. >> you have to know your audience, you really do there. >> and that's an impossible audience. >> and -- yeah self-depprication usually works. stephen colbert went in there and did everything backwards. you know they love false modesty, he had false arrogance. it was -- i remember going to his family afterwards going "hey how are you doing?" and they looked like they'd just attended a funeral. >> but the general populous loves that knew looking back and watching it online. >> have you decided what our family picture will be? >> i don't know but it should be

equally disturbing this year. >> i'm so concerned about what they've got. >> ronan, we'll do a special family portrait! >> all right. >> we're dysfunctional. >> i'll see you there. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? ♪ ♪ ♪ jeff... hey, scott! this is no time for lollygaggin', lad. the chickweed and the dandelions are reekin' mad havoc! now's the time to send in the scotts turf builder weed and feed, man! it kills weeds while it feeds and strengthens your grass. feed your lawn. feed it! when account lead craig wilson books

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thank you for being a sailor, and my daddy. thank you mom, for protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are thankful for many things. the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. our world-class service earned usaa the top spot in a study of the most recommended large companies in america. if you're current or former military or their family, see if you're eligible to get an auto insurance quote. time for another edition of "obama expressions." here we go. [ cheers and applause ] >> this is called the "'sup,

bae." "am i the pretty president?" "oh, this guy." "[ bleep ] please." "i'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse." "hey! like me on insta." this is the "shh just let it happen." "started from the bottom now we're here." [ laughter ] "now the whole crew up in here." the last obama expression from a recent meeting with hillary clinton. this is the "get out while you still can." there you go. l. >> that was some great stuff. >> funny. >> very good. very good. very good. great lyeion king. what did you learn? >> we laughed, we cried, we learned you all are keeping the white house correspondent's dinner interesting. public service. >> get ready for the family picture. >> i learn that you, joe, want a smart gun or believe in smart

guns and cecily strong is going to kill it i think. >> she's going to crush. >> it thank you for having me on your show. >> mika came on my show and interviewed so it was so good. >> joe, what did you learn? >> just a giant corrupt quid pro quo. >> it's "morning joe," stick around, "the rundown" is straight ahead. and good thursday morning to you, i'm jose diaz-balart. first on "the rundown," a major day for justice? america. we're following overnight developments in several high profile legal cases. we have updates from baltimore, ferguson and detroit. all cities where law enforcement action is under scrutiny. in boston, the sentencing phase for the convicted boston marathon bomber is resuming as jurors see this video of dzhokhar tsarnaev making an obscene gesture to a camera inside his prison cell. a key player of course, in all those story lines is the nation's top cop. that