estrogen should not be used to prevent heart disease heart attack, stroke or dementia. ask your doctor about premarin vaginal cream. does all greek yogurt have to be thick? does it all have to be the same? not with new light and fluffy yoplait greek 100 whips! let's whip up the rules of greek! this morning my question -- should ben affleck be ashamed? plus protests against police brutality continue. and loretta lynch is our new attorney general. but there are still confirmation battles aheadlement first, the latest on the devastating earthquake in nepal.

good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. more than 2,000 people are confirmed dead following a 7.8-magnitude earthquake in me the -- nepal yesterday. many buildings in the old ohhest part of kathmandu were damaged or destroyed including four unesco world heritage sites. search and rescue is under way including at mount everest where several avalanches were reported. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in kathmandu and filed this report this morning. >> reporter: kathmandu is a city where people are living outside tear homes. this is one of the biggest markets and it is a campgroundment people don't want to go inside buildings, sleep inside. so they are sleeping in open areas, in parks. almost evergreen space in the city has been turned into a campground. fans with cooking pots and their

children are living on the sidewalks. they are living in the streets. they don't even want to be near the buildingsment a lot of oh buildings are made of brick, concrete. and because of the after shocks bits and pieces of the building, entire wall withes in some cases, are still falling down. so you don't want to be near them. we felt one of the after hock this is morning. quite a strong one. 6.7. we had just arrived in this country. we are still at the airport. the building started to shake. we were going through immigration at the timement the customs officials and immigration officials ran away. they ran for cover. but then after just a few minutes today came back. business went more or less back to normal. the people here in nepal have been incredibly calm about this. we haven't seen a lot of fightings. we have seen no evidence of looting. you could see they are distributing foodment fans are

living together. i would say there's been a relaxed atmosphere for what has certainly been a national tragedy. richard engel, nbc news kathmandu, nepal. >> joining me now from washington, d.c., mark smith, senior director for humanitarian emergencies at world vision. can you are te ustell us how nepal will go about recovering from from the earthquake? >> you're going to see a two to three-stage process. first, the immediate relief needs including shelter, food water, nonfood items. first aid kitd ss, et cetera. soon after they are going to move into recovery phase. that's going to help people kind of get back into their homes. children will have to ub return to schools. people will have to start getting back to a nor hall life. so that recovery phase is going to be quite lengthiment it's

going to need a lot of oh international assistance to engage this that. >> hold on for mement don't go away. i need to bring in on oh the phone from kathmandu, nepal, pat reck adams. i know you're there. can you tell me what you're seeing on the ground there. >> well i have been mainly at the teaching hospital. i live down the street from it. the first day i saw a lot of cases. many severely wounded people and a number of dead people . today, that's tapered off a lot. the situation is much calmer. the triage patients and there is much more order brought to the process. in the streets, as was said earlier, the marking of the situations where people aren't

panicking, but they are staying away from buildings. i'm the only person this the building that i'm thisin now. >> yesterday i was reporting number this is the hundreds. now i'm reporting numbers in the thousands. i'm wondering about the sense es of grief or shock that may also be happening there. >> i think there is a lot of shock, absolutely. certainly grief among the families of victims. it's hard to get a sense of oh it. you want to be everywhere at once but you can't be. i have seen what i have seen at the hospital and certainly there is a lot of grieving there. city-wide, i don't get the sense that there is a lot of panic, to be honest. there is a great deal of fear about another large earthquake copping. i have been asked about that. people seem to think that's inevitable. >> thank you to patrick adams on the phone from nepal. i know you had to work hard to make it possible to talk with

us. we appreciate it. i want to bring in mark smith from washington, d.c. you were talking about the very long process that we're beginning. part of what i'm wondering is i'm sure americans are watching seeing the numbers rising and wondering what they can personally do. >> yes. the information minister for the government of nepal said it's a moment of crisis for this country. they are going to need a lot of international assistance. the response isn't something that can be handled by the people in nepal themselves or within the region. it has to be an international, global response. organizations like world vision and others are engaging immediately. our organization has been on the ground for a number of years. we have 200 staff there already. we have a surnl takege taking place and people need to realize though the fubs could be staggering even small contributions, especially financial

contributions help individual families. so $50 or $100 can help a family recover. i don't want people to think their money won't be able to do anything. i would encourage them to visit the website, world vision.org. people need to understand it can help. >> we're going to turn a bit here. you may have heard of mildred and richard loving. after all, their names will evoke the foundational u.s. supreme court case that legalized racially mixed unions in the united states. the lovings criminal, criminalized for marrying in 1958 fought the laws which led to loving v. virginia. that 1967 ruling that limb that itted state bans on interracial marriage. here is another couple whose names may be less familiar. jack baker and james mcconnell.

in 1970 baker was a student at the university of minnesota and mcconnell was a librarian. they appeared at the county clerk's office for a marnl license. there was no specific requirement that is members of a married couple had to be of the opposite sex. the county clerk turned them down. the couple filed suit against the state. they lost the first and appealed to the supreme court. they again lost that when the court said marriage between a man and a woman is quote, as old as the book of genesis. they appealed to the u.s. supreme court but it was dismissed, quote for want of a substantial federal question. that phrase established a long-lasting precedent. wen often used by the opponents of marriage equality for several decades. on tuesday the supreme court will hear oral arguments on whether state restrictions on same-sex marriage are constitutional. if the court rules that the

state marriage bans are unconstitutional marriage equality will become the law of our land. in the last ten years we have witnessed sizeeismic shifts on american opinion on law. massachusetts became the first u.s. state to legalize same-sex marriage. after the department of justice ceased defending doma in the federal courts this 2013 the supreme court found that the core of the defense of marriage act was unconstitutional. it has become one of the most defining issues of the civil rights movement for lgbq communities, the right to marry. what started in 1970 may come to a dramatic conclusion in this term of the court. joining he professor of constitutional law at nyu and author of "speak now, marriage equality on trial." the book is an extraordinary text for a lot of reasons. one just to remind us of how long this struggle has been. i think we sometimes hear it's

all happened kwekly but it hasn't. >> that's right. i'm glad you opened in that way. the two cases are intimately related. one of the reasons p baker and mcconnell go to court precise i lauz loving v. virginia happened. they are galvanized to fight for their rights as well. >> it's always an interesting moment to remind heist miendmind myself that loving happens in 1967. after we have had the success of the civil rights act of 1964. after the voting rights act in 1965. you need another set of oh processes to bring about marriage equality. part of what i want to know is if marriage equality becomes the law of the land in this case that we are now -- that the judges will now hear. what difference will it make? >> i think it will make a huge difference. as you say it took a long time

between brown and '54 and loving '67. there is an analogous movement here between the brown versus gay rights which struck down sodomy statutes and what we are saying now. a similar span where people need to be soc.lized to the notion of oh marriage. i think the big difference is first of all it's going to affirma affirm gay individuals in terms of social recognition. i want to point out there is something important going on vis-a-vis gay people in the state. marriage is a responsibility as well as a right. justice kennedy in his opinion talks about this as well. how there are responsibilities as well we as rights. it's different from an ordinary right. you're not just asking the state for something. you are also taking on burdens. if we show we are going to take

care of each other, we are no longer in this atomized individual dialogue with a state where the state is just dealing with us as individuals but if i get sick my husband will take care of me rather than my having to turn to the state for care. there is something i think different about this right than say, something like sodomy statutes or the right to engage in sexual intimacy. it's more like serving on a jury or voting. >> what you just did there reflects back on what's happening in the text. people wo with are nerdland regulars know you. they know you as a constitutional lawyer. you are quite intimate and personal from the preface forward. you conduct dozens of interviews with other folks. giving it the human side of all of this. i guess i'm wonderering in part you know as i'm looking at the text thinking about the civil rights movement around race questions, there is a social movement piece. there is a legal strategy in the

courts and there is this kind of oh human narrative piece. i wonder how you see them as connected? >> one of the brilliant things trials this general do and this one in particular is to weave the story telling dimension with a data driven empirical dimension of it. lance gary at or vardleal calls it the difference between narrative and statistical compassion. one thing that this trial did -- prop 8 did -- is to make sure the narrative compassion didn't disappear the first day after the plaintiffs finished testifying. usually the plaintiffs are the only um face of the trial. thanks to the brilliance of one of the attorneys on the case terry stewart with there was a strategy of oh interspersing individuals throughout the testimony. so you had whether sexual orientation is immutable, ryan kendall, a young man in conversion therapy and who was so traumatized he contemplated suicide.

he is mother said she would rather have have had an abortion than a gay child. he said it is incredibly harmful and my sexual orientation has not changed at all. not a dry eye in the casement they come back with an expert social psychologist with charts and a data. it's a per p fekt one-two punch where the narrative. most of oh us asum late information through stories. but at the same time there is a nagging voice in the back of our anti-depressant that says can i make policy based on one story oh. the trial said we are going to keep expert testimony because that will keep the story from being idiosyncratic. we are going to leaven that with individual narratives that will keep the ex pert testimony from seeming dry and pump it up with blood and life. >> with five seconds do you want to make a prediction about how the court will rule? >> i'm bullish about this and very cautious about reading the tea leaves. marriage equality by june will be the law of the land. >> that would be an extraordinary moment.

i hope you will celebrate with us when that happens. thank you. the book once again is speak now, marriage equality on trial. it's elegant. up next who got the biggest laughs at last night's white house correspondents' dinner. >> i tease joe sometimes, but he has been at my side for seven years. i love that man. [ applause ] he's not just a great vice president. he is a great friend. we've gotten so close the some places in indiana they won't serve us pizza anymore. looking for one of these? yoplait. smooth, creamy, and craved by the whole family.

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there was plenty of glam glitz and giggling at the white house correspondents dinner.

the annual gathering of the nerd prom. president obama was the comedian in chief last night in full second-term swag isger mode. >> my advisers ask me mr. president, do you have a bucket list is this i said well i have something that rhymes with bucket list. [ laughter ] take executive actionen on immigration? bucket. >> the highlight of the night might have been when the man known as no drama obama brought up comedian keegan michael key to revise his role as luther the president's anger translator. >> hold onto your leily white

butts. >> in our fast changing world tregss like the white house correspondents dinner are important. >> i mean really! what is this dinner? and why am i required to go to it? jeb bush do you really want to do this? >> that was a tough act to follow. but kwoez"saturday night live" cast member sicily strong got in a few zingers. >> i took amtrak here. it was more luxurious than i thought. did you know they have massage seats available is this all you have to do is sit in front of joe bide withnmentbidenment. looking out tonight i see so many 10s. washington 10s, so new york 4s. indiana 30s.

>> strong was only the fourth woman to headline the correspondents dinner if the century-long history. up next the protest involved more take a turn as tensions continue over the killing of freddy gray. success starts with the right connections. introducing miracle-gro liquafeed universal feeder. turn any hose connection into a clever feeding system for a well-fed garden. miracle-gro. life starts here.

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yesterday in baltimore, a protest and a rally over the death of freddy gray who died after suffering a spinal injury while in police custody. it began peacefully as a thousand or more marchers moved through the city to a rally at city hall. much later the march was marred by scenes of chaos. what baltimore's mayor called a small group of annual today tors reacting with aggression. some split from the main group, damaged cars and police cruisers and threw cans bottles and trash cans at the police. others looted a convenience

store and a sashed store front windows and fought with baseball fans at a bar. attendees at the baltimore orioles game were told by police to stay inside camden yard ares during a stand-off between protesters and officers this riot gear outside the stadium. the police commissioner said about 1200 police officers were deployed to keep the peace. at least five officers were injured and 12 people were arrested. last night during a news conference to call for calm in the city baltimore mayor stephanie raulings blake was joined by gray's twin sister wo spoke on behalf of her family. >> my family wants to is say can y'all please please stop the violence is this freddy gray would not want this. his fatherer and mother doesn't want violence. violence doesn't get justice. thank you. >> the frustration and anger on display was sparked by gray's

death a week after he suffered a spinal injury following an april 12 arrest. cell phone video of the arrest -- and i want to warn you that it is disturbing -- shows police officers pinning gray to the ground and place him in handcuffs. gray with his legs hanging limply is dragged by police into aen vanment it is unclear how and at what point during the arrest gray was injured. according to oh police he was arrested after he and another person fled after making eye contact with the police lieutenant. in a document charging gray with carrying an illegal switchblade knife an officer wrote he was taken into custody, quote , without force or oh incident. on friday baltimore police commissioner anthony bat said a police investigation uncovered key details about the alaskas of the officers involved. >> we know he was not buckled in the transportation wagon as he should have been. no excuse for that period.

we know our police employees failed to get him medical attention in a timely manner multiple times. >> the results of the police investigation will be given to prosecutors on may # 1 to determine whether criminal charges will be filed. if the investigation moves forward the justice department has launched a several federal investigation to see if police violated gray's civil rights. six officers involved the in the arrest and transport have been identified by the baltimore police department and suspended with pay. mayor blake has said she'll convene an independent commission. she called for answers on accountability in gray's death. tomorrow morning, freddie gray will be laid to rest in baltimore. joining me now, judge billy murphy former circuit court squuj for the city of baltimore who is representing the family of freddie gray. also the director of oh communities united for police

reform. and the associate professor of oh english africana studies and raul reyes from nbc.com. judge, watching freddie gray's twin sister before even being able to lay her brother to rest having to stand there and call for calm when she must feel such grief and sadness i'm wondering if you can help us have inseegt on what kind of oh justice the family is seeking. whether or not they are feeling optimistic any of that is. >> the family is deeply upset about what went on in ways that you can only imagine. to have demonstrations that are encouraging and having the sideshow of oh scattered violence which is discouraging naturally knocks them off kilter. the press has been besieging them. we have done everything we can to keep the press away from them at this time in their lives.

>> i keep being reminded of what feels like -- the inhumanity continues. we are focused on what happens in the van. it feel s like whatever kinds of failures there were both ro prosecute seed what happen s in the van and afterwards. it happens in the stop. every time i have to say he ran after making eye contact and he's dead a week later, that feels like a story from 1932. >> it's awfully upsetting. because we hope that people understand their duties as responsible police officers. but time and again they don't seem to. just imagine what this would have been like had there been no cell phone cameras. just imagine what the public would be seeing? complaining black people about nothing. instead of the reality of police brutality. this is really a turning point in the struggle to stop it and we need to take advantage of that. >> i'm interested in the

question then of accountability. in a moment like this, a young man, freddie gray is gone. fredericka lost her twin brother. what's justice is this? what does it look like? what does accountability look like? >> those are good questions and it is multi layers. the family needs to define it for themselves. i think our job is to support what the call is. there is also justice and accountability system-wide. we are now seeing a crisis in police violence that's not only freddie gray not only even going back to eric garner or the boyd case. it's something that's been going on ohfor centurieser or others say for decades. >> so -- >> what's clear is we don't know quantitatively if it's gottenen worse because with there is not a national recording. we don't get the baseline data aside from what people in

various jurisdictionser report on themselves. we know the crisis of lack of accountability is the big picture problem here. it's in the only the killings. killings are the tip of the iceberg. it's daily interactions police officers haver that are abusive, disrespectful and violent against people in cities and towns across the country that go without any kind of oh accountability whether it's the local police department or the criminal justice system. that's what we need to if i can. the bigger system. >> i want to come to you on the legal question here in part. there is a question of what can justice look like on the back end of this? part of what i eep struggling to understand is what is firefighter, allowable in the context of police behavior. so part of what we have seen for example, in the context of the boyd dismissal is the law pay be different from what we think of as reasonable or ethical or moral decision-making. is it legal to simply pursue someone -- i'm trying to

understand how it is this kid -- freddie gray ends up in police custody. >> what we often hear police say, particularly in the post michael brown period is almost -- their take away is many police officers say i was in fear for my life. they believe that was a justification for subsequent events. that's not a justification for using force on someone, particularly someone fleeing. however, the supreme court has rule ared that a fleeing suspect, if the officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred and this person could be a danger to other people that they can shoot someone. you have to remember when we look at the legal context you have the state laws and you also have the police department laws. sometimes today overlap but not always. in the eric garner case the choke hold was illegal under nypd procedure. it was not illegal under new york state law. all of these things factor

inment that's what we have to look at when we seek solutions. it is not enough to say we want dash cams. we need to look at things at the federal level. for example, maybe mandatory federal penalties for disabling the dash cams. maybe mandatory felony charges for police officers who with stand by and do nothing when brutality is in progressment i keep thinking of the eric garner case or the case down in south carolina where other officers saw something was happening and did nothing. we need mandatory felony charges were officers this those situations. because i keep coming back to we think of the problem or america thinks of this color problem as black and white. the color with the problem is blue. >> when we come back you brought up dash cams. when we come back i want to ask you about photography and video and what difference it actually makes. khalil mohamed got me thinking

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i am frustrated. i don't know what i can do about it. i feel like just being here, being a part of the march it's the only tool that i have. and i am praying that we're going to have some change. that's why i'm here. >> that was a protester speaking thoughtfully in baltimore during a march and rally calling for justice for freddie gray. i'm reminded that one of the things people are beginning to do is they take out the phone and, you know, they are filming the police. that's part of it. but i guess -- i have been thinking of that as good like we need dash cams and body cameras. the more i have to show the videos of black folks being abused harmed and sometimes killed the hr i wonder whether or not this has become spectacle

and not a tool for justice. >> i have three quick points. one, we are seeing the per jens of citizen journalists creating a space of accountability that's outside the police department. >> yes. >> that then creates for us maybe the body cameras themselves will create that kind of accountability. i'm of -- yes, we should have body cameras but this idea of the repetition of violence the spectacle of black bodies literally being killed in front of us both createses a sense of accountability and outrage but also creates an ongoing desensitivity to the yesh. my third thing is it's not a moment alone. we have rodney king, right? what was important about the way in which the police officers got off is that the defense was able to do a frame by frame analysis which led the jury to think, this wasn't so bad. le i'm thinking elizabeth alexander is important essay on rod think king. black bodies are already seen as

criminalized. it's not the photo or video that get us past the image of the black body predisposed to experience the violence and justified violence at the same time. we need body cameras. but the racial bias we have when we see them under attack is already there. >> you know we have a problem. we are used to all white folks reacting to this stuff. we know that pattern. but there is a new group of people who don't view race the same way that folks used to view race. they don't live premierly in race states but they do live. they are fuelling this move pt. young people weren't taught the antecedent to them. it's shocking. and the frequency has increased. the war on drugs has quadrupled the number of oh interactions between the police and black citizens. primarily add black people. it's not the war on on black people suspected of drugs.

>> when you make the point about -- i think it echoes your point about the problem being blue, not black and white in a clear sense. it goes for me to the point that in p baltimore, unlike in ferguson so we watch what happened in ferguson and we go oh, look at the elected oh officials. look at the police force. so it must be that this is happening because people are disempowered as voters. >> that ain't the baltimore problem. baltimore has african-american political leadership and an african-american police chief. a long history of economic and political empowerment. now i say if that was the solution for ferguson and it's not solving the problem in baltimore, what does work? >> we need to step back and acknowledge that the black bodies are criminal sized always. that's a problem in terms of racism. also that police officers get to act with impugnnity as if they can be judge, jury and executioner on the streets.

it's not just the war with on drugs but there are daily incidents whether it's zero tolerance, stop and frisk all of oh that provides interactions that escalate without consequence. >> in baltimore, the zero tolerance problem got out of oh control during one mayor who is now a presidential candidate, martin o'malley. he arrested on average 27,000 black people a year who weren't even charged with criminal conduct in massive zero tolerance street sweeping episodes. everybody got caught up in the net. so we have that as an aggravating factor in baltimore because the sting of that is still around. >> it's fascinating. i'm still getting to know o'malley. he's on the national stage for the first time. the idea that he had that tough on crime world view and similarly that the last clinton administration, of course,s in that case president bill clinton

was also so responsible for the growing of the criminal justice. we are going to stay on this. when we come back i want to talk about the rare decision in which the u.s. supreme court does tell police, no you can't do et. then we'll tie it in to other questions. i have a wandering eye. i mean, come on. national gives me the control to choose any car in the aisle i want. i could choose you... or i could choose her if i like her more. and i do. oh, the silent treatment. real mature. so you wanna get out of here? go national. go like a pro. hey buddy, you're squashing me! liquid wart remover? could take weeks to treat. embarrassing wart? dr. scholl's freeze away wipes 'em out fast with as few as one treatment. freeze away! dr. scholl's. the #1 selling freeze brand. ♪ ♪

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[ driver panting ] if you're sick of paying more than your fair share... [ screams ] get snapshot from progressive, and see just how much your good driving could save you. in 2012 a man nameded denise rodriguez was stopped by police in nebraska for a routine traffic violation after he briefly veered onto the shoulder of a highway. the officer issued a warning for the violation but didn't allow rodriguez and his passenger to leave. instead the officer detained him to allow his drug sniffing dog to inspect the car. after the dog indicated the presence of drugs a subsequent police search turned up a bag of het methamphetamine. rodriguez was con vicked but argued the evidence was with illegally on oh taned by the officer. this week the supreme court

agreed. in a 6-3 decision the court found police may not prolong a traffic stop in order to conduct an inspection with a drug sniffing dog. justice ruth bader ginsburg wrote a police stop exceeding the time needed to handle the matter for which the stop was made violate it is constitution's shield against unreasonable seizures. the seizure justified only by police-observed traffic violation, therefore becomes unlawful if it is prolonged beyond the team requireded to issue the ticket for violation. it was the second major criminal law degs of the current term. and a re server sal of the position on police authority in its earlier ruling. in december the court had allowed drug evidence found in another traffic stop ren though the officer made the stop based on an incorrect understanding of the law. i'm interested here. i thought it was a fascinating rowling for lots of reasons. both of you said there is an up

tick in the police-citizen reaction s because offer war on drugs, broken window policing. i wonder if this pumps the brakes? >> no. the police reaction to aim ruling century years ago is to find reasons to lengthen the time. they come up with new informational requirements and the radio responses are delayeded and that gets the drug dog enough time to get there. so oh it means nothing. they will get around the ruling. they always try to get around the rulings. >> i agree mostly. one thing the it does is ex pose the problem. and help to continue to expose the problem. beyond that we have to continue to organize. litigation is only one part of the solution. it's never going to solve thinking unless we build up organizing. >> can i point out something? the 2005 case he's talking about which gave the police the right to search someone's car without a warrant or without reasonable suspicion. the plaintiff in that case was cabayos. the plaintiff in the case here was mr. rodriguez.

last year- it was hyndenver sus north carolina. he was the plaintiff. but the person driving the car was mr. vasquez. you are seeing police policing communities driving while hispanic. for all americans, ignorance of the law is no excuse for committing a crime. if if you didn't know something was a crime, too bad. last year they made an exception in the vasquez case for a police officer. they said when today stopped mr. vasquez and they stopped him because he was driving straight up with he is hands at the 10-2 position. >> like making eye contact for freddie gray. >> looking straight ahead. later the officer said he had a broken taillight. even with that having a broken taillight isn't a chargeable offense as long as you have one working it's okay. look at it in the context of

what happened in south carolina. an officer stops someone for a broken taillightment he ran, ended up dead. we see the same patterns continuing in the sense the law exists in a bubble divorced from the reality on the ground of the type of interactions people have are in law enforcement. >> when you say it exists divorce of actual people's interactionsment one of the most fascinating things was judge roberts saying i have never been stopped by the police. societytomayor was like what? for the latina on the court the idea of having never been stopped by the police. >> ludicrous. >> right. >> she was stopped for 40 minutes sp. >> yes. >> 13% of drivers overall have been in a traffic stop. for minorities it's more than twice that. >> we are talking about two different worlds here. that's coming to light. white folks have to be geniuses of a stupid kind to be arrested

for drugs in america. you have to be talented. >> it's true. >> in baltimore, 99% -- maybe 98. i'm exaggerating by half a percent. all of the drug arrests are black people. this is a pattern around the country. what do you expect? naturally justice roberts won't be arrested for suspicion of smoking a joint. he looks too white and that conventional. >> i want to say thank you to william with murphy jr., who i'm sure we'll continue to talk to you as you work with the gray family and joo-hyun kong who will be back in the next hour. coming up loretta lynch will take office but the con fir pags fight is far from over. i will explain why next.

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finally 166 days after her nomination, after a wait longer than the seven most recent attorneys general combined after exasperation from everyone from president obama to the women of delta sigma theta sorority incorporated. after nerdland's plea to mitch mcconnell to # set the date the date arrived thursday. loretta lynch was confirmed as the nation's newest attorney general. the first african-american woman to hold the post. the vote in the senate was with 56-43. ten republicans voted to confirm her including the man who held up the nomination for weeks until the senate voted on a human trafficking bill. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell himself voted yes. of course there were last-minute dram technicalatic dramatics. republican senate and presidential candidate ted cruz criticized his colleagues who were supporting lynch. >> i would note there are more than a few voters back home

asking what exactly is the difference between a democratic and republican majority when the exact same individual gets confirmed as attorney general promising the exact same lawlessness, what's the difference? >> when it came time to vote the senator was far away en route to a texas fund-raiser for his presidential campaign. the still, tanks to the end of the shenanigans the era of attorney general loretta lynch begins monday when she's sworn in. her predecessor eric holder celebrated by removing the wristband with the words "free eric holder." >> we have these bands i have been wearing for the last wavr number of whatevers. i think i can officially take it off now. [ applause ]

i think we can oh officially say now eric holder is free. >> monday will be a historic day when lynch takes up the torch but to continue her department's quest for justice effectively she needs a fully formed justice department and several top crucial d.o.j. positions still need congressional action. lynch's second in command, acting deputy attorney general sally yates is awaiting a vote by the senate. stuart delaree and the nominee to head the civil rights division which seems critical now vanita gupta the haven't had nomination hearings. so while loretta lynch will take office on monday there is still plenty of reason to tell republicans in the senate, # set the date. still to come this morning, the good news about ben affleck feeling ashamed and the man who

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welcome back. i i'm melissa harris-perry. we have an update on the still developing p news this morning from nepal where a 7.8 magnitude earthquake struck yesterday, the worst in 80 years. more than 2,000 people are dead. rescue workers are digging through the rubble in kathmandu and trying to reach villages closer to the epicenter. the quake triggered avalanches at mount everest where at least 17 people died. the u.s. state department said this morning three american citizens are among the dead. nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel filed this report from kathmandu.

>> reporter: kathmandu is a city where people are living outside their homes. this is one of the biggest markets and it is a markets and it is a campground. people don't want to go inside buildings, sleep inside. so they are sleeping in open areas, in parks. almost evergreen space in the city has been turned into a campground. fans with cooking pots and their children are living on the sidewalks. they are living in the streets. they don't even want to be near the buildings. a lot of buildings are made of brick, concrete. and because of the aftershocks, bits and pieces of the building, entire walls in some cases, are still falling down. so you don't want to be near them. we felt one of the after hock this is morning. quite a strong one. 6.7. we had just arrived in this country. we are still at the airport. the building started to shake. we were going through immigration at the time. the customs officials and immigration officials ran away. they ran for cover. but then after just a few

minutes today came back. business went more or less back to normal. the people here in nepal have been incredibly calm about this. we haven't seen a lot of fighting. we have seen no evidence of looting. you could see they are families are living together. i would say there's been a relaxed atmosphere for what has certainly been a national tragedy. richard engel, nbc news, kathmandu, nepal. stay with msnbc throughout the day more more on the latest from nepal and the region. we'll make a shift now because now i would like the to talk about benjamin cole. in the decade before the civil war cole lived in georgia where he owned a large farm and served as county sheriff. according to the 1850 census benjamin cole held 25 human being s as slaves placing him among the elite slave holders. wednesday we learned he's the

third great grandfather of movie star director and academy award winning screen writer ben affleck. affleck revealed cole as his ancestor on twitter. after enduring a mini tempest when he acknowledged that he lobbied the producerers of the pbc genealogy series to conceal that part of oh his history. the deleted segment, the part he wanted held back reveals ben affleck's reaction to the discovery that his great, great, great grandfather benjamin cole enslaveded 25 people. so affleck wrote on his facebook page quote, i didn't want pe any television show about my family to include a guy who owned slaves. i was embarrassed. the very are thought left a bad taste in my mouth. embarrassment. shame. these are powerful emotions.

and i might say precisely the response that privacy invaderers like e mail hackerers or yellow journalists hope to evoke by reare vealing private information and sbraks. the human reaction to embarrassment is so powerful that it is nearly physiologically impossible to resist it. shame evokes a cortisol response that harms our hearts and im immune system, increases sensitivity to pain forces us to lower our heads and avert our eyes and withdraw prosecute from public view. when affleck says he has a bad taste in his mouth it's more than a symbolic reference. the cortisol response of shame can change your sense of taste. affleck's embarrassment and desire to hide offer a potentially powerful lesson about race in america. in her 2006 text a spectacular secret professor jacquelyn gullsby examines the critical role of oh photography in the

practice of american lynching. for decades the visual legacy of oh lynching crossed the nation as postcards and souvenirs. the photographs not only record the bloody brutality of lynching. they are a stark reminder that attending and participating in the torture and murder of black bodies evoked no shame. look at the faces in the photograph from 1930. look at the faces because you can . because you can see testimony. no one is turning away from the grotesque destruction of humanity or from the photographer's lens that captures their participation. with time and strug and sacrifice we are different. it's still imperfect as a nation. remember in 2005 when music mogul and entrepreneur kanye west went we off script during a live fundraiser for hurricane katrina relief. >> george bush doesn't care about black people. >> now west was with responding to the government's failure and the images of people in new

orleans who had been for days trapped this their homes or on their rooftops or in the superdome or convention center. later in a 2010 interview with nbc's matt lauer president bush recalled the moment kanye's comment as the worst moment of his eight years in the white house. >> i didn't appreciate it then. i don't appreciate it now. it's one thing to say i don't appreciate the way he handled his business. it's another thing to say this man is a racist. i resent it. it's not true. it was one of the most disgusting moments of my presidency. >> you told laura are at the time it was the worst moment of oh your presidency. >> yes spp. >> i wonder if some people will give you heat for that. >> i don't care. >> that president was adamant that that was his worst moment. nearly 2,000 people died in one of the five deadliest hurricanes in u.s. history. that wasn't the worst moment.

nor the loss of oh 3,000 people in the september 11 terrorist attack. it was that a celebrity called him a racist. i get it. there was a lot of oh criticism of president bush for faming this kanye west moment as his low point. back up and let's consider it a little more charitably. think of president bush's comments as animated by the same feeling that led ben affleck to hide his distant genetic connection to benjamin cole. shame at being thought of as racist. there is real value in being ashamed of racism. shame serves an important social role, even if painful for the individual. it articulates our public commencements to certain values. the this this case it asserts we will no longer attend a limpbling and stare into the camera lens. the act of shrinking away from a personal connection to racial violence and inequality is a sign of a certain kind of

progress. but that shrinking away is a barrier to our collective ability to tell the whole painful unvarnished truth of oh our past and how it affects our present. to participate this the american project at any level is to stand knee deep in the legacy of slavery. our contemporary social political and economic realities are built on the broken backs of those whose unpaid labor lays the tougs on which we stand. slavery is not the shame of individual families. it is the collective reality of american life. that discussion is next. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo.

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admitting he pressured the pbs show "finding your roots" to omit news about one of his ancestors who held more than two dozen people inry. on facebook he wrote we deserve neither credit nor blame for an ses tors and the degree of interest suggests we are grappling with the terrible legacy of slavery. it is an exam first nation worth continuing. i'm glad my story, however indirectly will contribute to the discussion. i don't like that the guy is an ancestor, but i'm happy that aspect of history is being talked about. here to talk about it ses yat professor of english and africana studies. also thomas seg are ru professor of history and sociology from the university of pennsylvania and raul reyes, attorney and contributor for msnbc.com. i made the claim at the end of the last segment that the political economic social life

of america is built on slavery. is that an over statement? >> it's not. slavery was essential to the rise of american capitalism. it made people wealthy in the 19th century. it allowed folks, their folks, descendents to accumulate wealth have security stability and opportunities that weren't available to the enslaved population or oh descendents. >> yet is ben affleck right that we don't deserve credit or oh blame for our ancestors? it occurs to me that part of how the finding your roots series is set up from the beginning is the idea that we'll find stories and the stories will reveal something about who you are. so if you have someone this the past who was great then you are meant to feel good about that. well, if you have shn in the past who participated in the peculiar institution of slavery then aren't you also meant to then somehow feel responsible for that? >> i don't think we have to feel responsible for our ancestors.

they made choices in their particular moment. we should be responsible for the world that they gave us the legacy they bequeathed us. for someone like ben affleck it means coming up in a moment of opportunity. it was made possible by generations of wealth opportunity, prosperity. it essentially allowed him to become the person he is. it's not just individual talent or gumption. it's the result of generations. >> who we are is cumulative from the history from which we come i wonder how much we don't know about slavery. and not just oh the white folks -- i mean us as americans. our inability to contend with it. when you think of what we know what don't we know that we should? >> that's a big question. >> i know. >> can you explain slavery in

one minute? >> i want to follow up and bring it together. >> sure. >> tom said about the legacy of slavery. what's interesting about the response by ben affleck is who owns the property of slairy meaning who owns the ep memory? an african-american descendant of enslaved african-americans can't shrug off the legacy of slavery the way in which somebody like ben affleck can. it was disowning he is own family legacy and also not acknowledging both the privilege he inherited by bu the way in which white privilege works in the present and black disadvantage works many the present. that's the bigger issue. there are other models like edward wl ball in his investigation of his slave holding family in his book and the whitney plantation. there are way this is which certain white americans are trying to understand the link between blacks and whites americans, slavery as a project of reare kovry recuperation and

racial reconciliation. there is so much we don't know about slavery. it was astonishing to me when the film "12 years a slave" came out and people revealed how little they knew. the ways in which black families are literally broken. basic tinges we should understand about slavery. most americans have either been denying or that there ises a collective amnesia that's structural educational and intergenerational. >> i think one of the beggest things we as a nation don't know about slavery, we think of slavery based on what we learned in school certain movies. >> 1970s "roots". >> we with think of oh slavery as an institution that benefitted the south and perpetuated their culture. think of et this way. slavery drove the economic performance of the north. at that time it fuelled -- >> of the world. >> in the northeast at that time massachusetts, rhode

island and maine we had cotton mills. who do you think was picking the cotton? not only that but the institution of oh slavery changed the demographics of the northeast. european immigrants would not come to the south because they could not compete with slave labor. they came to the northeast into the west which again pushed thaer i economic development. that connection is real. but the reel alalityreality. >> if you cross back the other direction across the black atlantic you see the systemic under economic development of the continent of africa the economic boons in the context of yoorp. it is a global system that's upheld. >> one of the important lessons from the ben affleck experience is he's trying to look back. he's only human. everyone has embarrassing ancestors. >> some of them are in closer generations. >> he's looking at his relatives saying they were bad and that embarrasses him because they were slave owners.

at that time it was irrelevant whether a slave owner was good or bad. it was an institution, a phenomena, a way of life. whether or not is someone was a good person was irrelevant to the time. >> when we come back we'll get you in on oh the question of what it means in a real way to contend with racial shame, embarrassment around that participation as well. up ethics there are also surprising roots in the first family's family tree. it gets confusing. fastest, strongest the most in-your-face-est. it sounds like some weird multiple choice test. yea, but do i pick a, b, or c. i pick like the best of everything. verizon. i didn't. i picked a. and how'd that work out for you? not so well. can i get a do-over? vo: why settle for less when you can have, well, everything. and get 200 dollars or more when you trade in your smartphone for a galaxy s6. verizon. if you misplaced your discover card you can now use freeze it to prevent new purchases on your account in seconds. and once you find it

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ben affleck is not the only american whose family is connected to slavery. trace the family tree of the first family and you will find our extraordinary first lady is descended from both enslaved people and those who enslaved them. ancestry.com performed research on the president's genealogy and we foe he's the son of a black man born in kenya and a white woman born in kansas. researchers found the president's mother was the tenth

great grand daughter of john punch, a man known as the first african enslaved for life in the united states. it's just a reminder that all of us are connected to this long story. yet, i wonder about the ways in which african-americans own our oh experience with enslavement asser part p -- as part of the big story but it becomes harder for white folks to the do so. >> white people have a complicated relationship with the past. we all want to tell stories. you know there's two things and this is something that the whiteness project is looking at. i have this incredible note from somebody talking about how a black woman, her whiteness was defined by the country. when watching the project she realized white people's whiteness is defined by the relationship to blackness. it was cathartic. this idea that you can't be

guilty for the past. you can be guilty for how you live in the present. you can't be guilty for the past. one thing that was disappointing about the episode is it was a huge lost opportunity to tell a story of trance fortrancer for haitian. he is mother was a freedom rider. you go from slave owner to freedom rider to a liberal activist. to me that's a stand-in for this american story. we can transform. the idea that we haven't, i think is not a reality. we need to transform more. >> this point you make about the deaf thigss of whiteness and blackness, i want to tom coyou on that. i was looking at edward baptist writing about slavery and the making of american capitalism. he writes ideas about slavery's history determine the ways in which americans hope to resolve the long contradiction between the claims of the united states

to be a nation of free dom and opportunity and the opportunity denied that for most of american history has been faced by people of oh african decent. i grew up in the shadow of the montic eric lk monticello mountain and with jefferson holding slaves. this is the crux of the oh american question. system we have historical amnesia. we whitewash parts of the past that don't easily comport to liberty, freedom, equality opportunity. one reason the book made a slash is ed emphasize it is way american capitalism, defined as the essence of freedom and national identity is built on free dom. we would not be the great world power that we are without millions of enslaved africans being exploited.

we with wouldn't have the wealth that the united states has. we wouldn't have industrialization. we wouldn't is have just charlottesville, but detroit, charlotte, new york. >> when you say we wouldn't have the wealth. if you would like to see, you can look at the existing wealth gap. le the median household wealth for white households being 13 times that of black households. $141,000 to $11,000. you can close the gap but they grow on themselves. is that the argument for reparation? >> i was going to say it's not just individual families. part of the early 24th century reparations movements was to get damages from private corporations. now we have universities that have financially benefitted from slavery. so it's the systema tirkstic,

institutional, private individuals who benefitted from slavery. the question ben affleck at least provides us is how do we wrestle with the founding contradictions and how we wrestle with ongoing legacies of in inequality you show with the wealth gap and families. shg like fleet bank. these are corporations that didn't exist in their time. they inherited wealth from their original corporations. i think it is so systematic and an epidemic and unreconciled. >> it's not -- i believe it's misguided to solely focus on slavery. to be honest i think many americans think slavery was a long time ago. we have an african-american president, equality. anti-discrimination laws. >> that's always the sentence. >> that's the way. so let go of it. it's possible to look at the past with curiosity and humility and be open minded about the

mind sets that persisted. we look at the creation of social security. it left out most african-americans because it excluded agricultural and domestic workers. later onnen when we were creating unemployment insurance and the g.i. bill that was left to the states. this the south, again, many african-americans were discriminated against and left out. we saw it perpetuated with housing district manager thagss throughout the '60s. it's not just the institution of slavery. it's a mindset that's persisted in the country when we have codified into law anti-discrimination policies. >> slavery, we think of segregation of the offspring of slavery. if you think about slavery end ending 1865 and seg fwrags being codified in the law they are directly linked of the off spring. i don't know how we want to say it. but you are pointing to the long history of racial oppression and also the responses on behalf of african-americans to fight that. it does start with slavery.

>> right. >> i feel because there was no period of mourning and deep reconciliation the north and south reconciled at the expense of african-americans without the period of reparations, without the period of reconciliation and including african-americans then you get other forms of discrimination that have to be addressed this the civil rights movement and obviously still today. >> we'll talk about those in our next block. we'll talk about reading, writing and race. and a new report on punishment in our schools. i love the idea of looking at history with the curiosity and humility. i will write that on my board in nerdland. we'll be right back. (son) oh no... can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that's why i got a subaru legacy. (vo) symmetrical all-wheel drive plus 36 mpg. i gotta break more toys.

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anyone have occasional constipation diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these occasional digestive issues... with 3 types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips' we know black children are suspended from school at higher rates than white children, even in preschool. black children make up just 18% of children in prek programs but make up 42% of oh suspensions

and 48% of those suspended multiple types. now insight into why it may be happening. teachers perceived infractions by african-american students such as insubordination and classroom disturbances as more likely to be part of a pattern and, quote, treated as more extreme than the identical infraks from a white student. the study found the teachers were significantly more likely to imagine themselves suspending the black student in the future compared with the white student. joining me from stanford california is jason okonofoa from the study, race and the disciplining of oh young students. jason, what are the key findings many the study that headache different, and distinguish it from these disparities. >> absolutely. there's been a wealth of evidence produced to the effect of there are large disparities the suspensions and disciplinary action across the united states.

this work is experimental. it allows us to see a causal path such that a student's race does in factor or oh can lead to a difference if likelihood of being suspended. it appears to happen over the course of multiple interactions. so another key finding from this experimentation is what might be a primary function of stereotyping in general such that two separate incidents can be tied together or stereotypes serve as glue that sticks incidents together such that they seem to be part of a pattern. teachers then respond with more severe discipline p.m. help me understand what you mean when you say misbehavior and infractions, especially when talking about presoolers. >> right. so there is a parallel that comes to mind that's with criminal justice. there is repeat offenders, hence the title two strikes. when we say infractions we are

saying any reason a student would be sent to the office for punishment. in this case and is the case, most of the time when it comes to suspensions it's more p minor insubtractions or what can be labeled as something vague which is insubordination which could be anything from not following a teacher's instructions to not cooperating on a particular activity. and that the minor infraks are leading to suspensions that remove children from the learning environment. >> don't go away. we want to come to you on the idea of insubordination. as kind of a racial claim. it feels connected to pe to a sense of knowing one's place. kids are insubordinate. that makes them kids. >> absolutely. look. as a former insubordinate kid who was suspended a number of times from school i know it intimately. what's interesting is how do you connect this to how white people think about it? we have talked before about the idea. how do people understand things

that don't happen to them. every time i read stories, i think about the things i did that had no consequences. it's stunning to me. it's also the study was interesting. i did a film called "i sit where i want" in the buffalo public school system. i remember talking to a white teacher. it was a school that was majority african-american. i said how do you feel about the fact that there is no african-american teachers in this school. she said there's not? >> they don't begin the process. how do you begin to talk about the student ifs you can't see how the structure functions. >> this idea that for some students these behaviors are either inconsequential or potentially are seen maybe as positive. right is this so this is you challenging authority. how do we take that especially if educators can't see when there aren't people in the room.

how do we take your findings connect it with the history and start moving forward to some kind of oh solution. >> precisely. so thousand that we have a causal path for how race can lead to differences in discipline, we have psychological levers involved in this process. namely teachers are feeling more hindered by maintaining control of the classroom. today feel more irritated by the student which leads to a difference in discipline. also the actual stereotype that a teacher might be aware of about certain students also can lead to the difference we see in disciplinary action. going forward we know specific areas or oh avenues we can take to offset the process. that i meanly having teachers think in a growth mindset about students' capacity to behave better. no, you are not just a trouble maker. that's not a fixed thing.

rather, you are a growing adult. i'm here to help you grow into a responsible citizen. >> hold for me. i saw you raising your hand. >> connected to the earlier discussion about reasonable suspicion, when yes we think about police officers constructing reasonable suspicion, minor infractions that lead to other forms of behavior. here we have teachers creating reasonable suspicion. the other thing is for the african-american student in the classroom who becomes an adult who sees a police officer look at him and run, this is a pattern created over a lifetime in which doubt and fear of police officers or minor infractions can turn into something else is important. the data shows us the long history of criminalzation and discipline that starts in preschool and ends unfortunately sometimes with the death of certain people. >> i want to ask you an education policy question. you have talked about the ways in in which it connects to other

fields. we heard the idea about the interaction with the police officer. we know it can have impact in emergency rooms. any time whether it's a doctor or police officer the shorter the interaction the more likely stereotypes are to dominate. i wonder if part of what's going on here is teachers as you said teaching to theest worried about job security lots of kids in the classroom. can we make education policy to help address this? >> that's an excellent question. like we say in the articles about the publication, we don't think teachers are racist. we think they are well intentioned hardworking people. however that environment in which there is a lot of pressure from a variety of different directions teachers fall susceptible to the influence of stereotypes and that bends their interpretations of behavior p. so maybe if there weren't so p many prosecutors and we weren't

worryied about keeping students on task at all times to make sure they learn certain ways to respond to question s on a test but rather something conducive to spontding to children as they come, we might haver more deliberate decision-making on the part of teachers. they will have more opportunity to really think about disciplined consequences for the students. >> absolutely. thank you so much for your research and for joining us. jason okonofua. thanks also to our panel here. up next the man who played chris partlow on the wire joins us. ow. we don't collect killer whales from the wild. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them.

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enforcement reason. it is time to change the approaches we have been using the past 30, 40 years. through the great work of the people this this department we are starting to reverse the trend. >> mr. holder isn't alone. more people on both sides of the political aisle in hollywood are looking at more incarceration rates something that would be politically unimaginable. last week john legend launched his free america campaign in texas. he met with and performed for p inmates at the travis county correctional complex and urged lawmakers to pass legislation to lower punishments for crimes like driving without a license. my next guests are sure to join in support as they have been work withing on justice reform for years. joining me now glen martin of just leadership usa and ben

akamidiba who you may recognize from his roles encolluding chris partlow on "the wire." so why is criminal justice reform having a hometown in the spotlight? >> it's interesting. advocates like myself and others have been working for years to help americans understand how we have gone off the deep end in terms of punishment as a response to poverty, addiction, other things. more recently with incidents of police brutality it's helping americans to better understand it as a system. front end to back end. you can talk about spending $45 billion a year to run the prison system and getting two thirds of people going back. many americans are realizing there is a moral problem here. our criminal justice leans heavily toward punishment and rehabilitation and redemption have gone out the window. >> in fact i want to play for

you -- i don't know if you are a normal watcher of the show but yesterday we had a conversation about the death penalty. this point that glen brought up emerged from a couple of guests who were talking about the idea -- now not for drug offenses. but supposedly for folks who are irredeemable, that prison is too easy. i want to play a little bit and have you respond. >> i have a few clients serving life sentences, life without parole. one is doing two consecutive sentences. he spends time in and out of solitary. his life doesn't suck. he has a pretty good life. he is a high ranking gang member. he runs his gang business. he has one of the other inmates as his chef. he gets french toast and bacon. >> what about the fact that the killers are playingle volumele ball softball watching first-run movies getting good

food? >> they are in prison. their lives, their livelihoods are being taken away. they are punished the way we set up in this civilization to punish people. we are now judging that as not sufficient enough. we can't then go to extremes or oh seek out extremes because some people feel it isn't enough. we event actually walked this their shoes. it's ridiculous. i'm trying to say it the nice way. it's absurd. >> part of what with i'm wondering hen is if voices around the new coalition can start to do the work of saying the commission of a crime is not the end of somebody's humanity. >> i was with john legend in d.c. two days ago. he was on a panel discussing how he's moving into the space. i appreciate how thoughtful he is. in particular listening to the people most impacted. i often say people who are closest to the problem are also

closest to the solution. unfortunately furthest from power and privilege. so what he's saying is let me into the jails the prisons and talk to the people impacted by the policies and have that guide the way i push reform and use my leverage to get americans to pay attention of. what's important about that is those are the people who can tell us what can help them turn their lives around and what got them there in the first placement when i think about life in prison most young black men in america do life on the installment plan in and out of prison. that's america's response to their needs. >> why is this important to you? >> aside from it being my demographic, my brothers and sisters going to prison at a much higher rate it affects us as a nation. we are operating out of fear. we are operating out of anger. when we do it we can't make informed decisions that benefit the nation. we have to remember are we punishing these people as a

reaction to punish their deeds or do we want to rehabilitate and build a nation in those are different goals. you can see from the way our judiciary works, the prison system works that rehabilitation has gone out the window. it's just right now a system that eats itself. >> instead of building we are tearing down. thank you to glen martin. up next riding and writing on the rails. >> all aboard! exibility. it's where great ideas and vital data are stored. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions from a trusted it partner. including cloud and hosting services - all backed by an industry leading broadband network and people committed to helping you grow your business. you get a company that's more than just the sum of it's parts. centurylink. your link to what's next.

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in mid-march there was a two-week cross country train trip one of 24 riders selected for the amtrak residency program. its purpose, to see what kind of literary inspiration ensue weather service dynamic writers have the beauty of america at their window.

she says she found as much as inspiration from the people she met as the places she saw. >> i teach journalism at nyu and including doing travel writing. >> all aboard! >> i have been on the rails for amtrak doing something called amtrak residency traveling from new york to l.a. and back and working on various fiction and nonfiction projects. i deficit thinking about on the train -- i definitely thinking about on the train has made me more focused. a lot of times when you're stationary, there's restlessness that kicks in at a certain point. yoga is very important when traveling by train because you

have to work out all the knots. the train allows you to avoid that restlessness. you're able to stay in a fixed position while the scenery changes. you're writing, and then you look up, and there's a new visit a. there's something else to look at. you go from the swamps to the desert. and in the swamp portion, the color tonightality is brown and green. once you get to the desert, it's this ocre yellow red, a very different color scene. and it's very visually arresting. i feel like traveling by train really opens up different parts of my brain. i figured this was a good time to use creative energy. the things that make me excited are seeing the humanity of other people including people for whom i consider myself very

different. finding those commonalities of humanity and them looking at the differences in our fiction form or nonfiction form. going from coast to coast by train train, i can imagine the back story of everyone i meet. when we met in the common spaces, whether it's the dining car or observation cars or cafe cars we have these social interactions. on all these different levels including race class gender, there's a dialogue about society that can occur in a profound level just in these casual conversations you have on a train. i had one particularly interesting conversation with a woman who was talking with ferguson. and over the course of the conversation there were many different times where she used frays that were provi-- phrases that were provocative to me.

in some instances i might have had a conversation about her terminology. but for example, in terms of race, she talked about having biracial grandchildren and different things. this is what i'm getting at -- all of us have ways of defining the world where we use terms and phrases that encode reality. so she was talking to me about the world as she saw it, and that's not the world that exists. but likewise, as i spoke to her, i was describing the world as i saw it. now, i may think that that's reality because i'm me but who's to say that i'm completely right? it's a good message not to judge people in any one way. that we all have many different sides and different roles that we play. this is the best snack ever. hot pickled okra. there's the idea of trains

coupling. you know, they have ways of linking up two train cars come together and the mechanical couplings link. that's the way i sort of think of people. sometimes it's a bumpy process but i think spending too much time around people who think the exact same way that you do is very unhealthy. that's the serious side. the fun side is you get to experiment with your own identity when you travel. am i adventurous, am i playful, am i someone who talks to strangers. it's really spiritually important. it's a lot of fun. [ laughter ] >> thank you, guys. you all enjoy. >> curiosity and humility. we'd like to thank her for letting us ride along. thanks for joining us today. right now a preview of alex witt and richard lui. the setback in nepal with searchers looking for the

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