buoy and benjamin wallace wells. we are continuing to follow breaking news out of baltimore. there have been a handful of arrests, according to the baltimore police. at least seven officers have serious injuries. in a press conference earlier this hour, police said they were attacked without provocation and called those who attacked them criminals. our coverage ends now, but "the ed show" picks up our coverage beginning now. i'm sitting in for ed right now. we start with breaking news, as you've been watching on msnbc out of baltimore, maryland. looking at live pictures right now in baltimore where young demonstrators are clashing with police. earlier, demonstrators were throwing rocks and other objects at officers. at the moment fire trucks arriving at this burning vehicle. we've been watching it over the last hour here from this helicopter that was over this area, which we believed to be around the mondawmin mall not too far away from where the funeral was held earlier today for freddie gray.

that 25-year-old who died after being taken into custody by baltimore police. that happened jus not too many hours ago. and then right after that about 3:00 today we did get a tweet from the baltimore police saying they were concerned about threats. against the police department and against officers. two hours later, exactly at this moment 5:01 p.m. eastern time violence has erupted to some degree there in this area. we have seen some looting. live pictures again coming out of the downtown area. joining us now is nbc's brian mooar, who is with us -- brian, can you hear me? >> reporter: yeah, richard. we just finished speaking with billy murphy the attorney for the family. he says that this is the gray family's nightmare scenario. this is exactly what they don't

want to happen. he made an appeal to the people out there to stop what they're doing. he says it is counterproductive. it is not helping anyone. in fact, he says it is traumatizing the family trying to deal with immense loss and trying to lay freddie gray to rest today. >> and the family and the mayor have been so consistent, brian, as you've been reporting over the past few days. they did not want this to happen. and we've seen waves. it's gotten quiet where you see five or six individuals running in and out of the cvs pharmacy with items in hand. and then after a period of time it will increase to what you see now. what are you seeing? >> i am at the church where the funeral service took place today where there were so many calls for peace and constructive

change. about five blocks away from here is the nexus of this violence. we've seen police officers, many dozens of them in a defensive posture trying to push back crowds. we're told that it started with just a couple of kids juveniles, probably just having gotten out of school up to some mischief near the mall. and it very quickly escalated. >> tell me this. so you're about five blocks away. what have you been able to hear and see from where you are at? >> well, indulge me for a second. this is one thing we were able to see, which was a rock that was thrown at us. this is something that can obviously do some real damage. we've seen people driving through the area. one person yelled "black lives matter." a couple of other people are asking what's going on why there's such a huge police presence. they literally ran into a blue

wall of officers in riot gear. not sure at all why these streets were closed. but probably suspecting. at this point, this area here this church has been an oasis of calm all day. it is a city that is very tense right now. this is the spark in the tinderbox. >> it's fair if we can say this, isolated in an area based on your distance of about five blocks to this mondawmin mall section. again, to give a quick summary, baltimore police saying at least seven officers have been injured in what they're describing as an ongoing violent clash there in the baltimore area. and they have been very clear in providing the information to us via twitter in terms of what has been happening. do you have any information on

the injuries? we've had just a press conference about 35 minutes ago. it was very short from the captain from baltimore police as he was expressing to us fairly graphically in terms of what had happened, yet he didn't seem to make any clear ties related to what we were seeing at the funeral and what was happening around that. >> reporter: well i think that's because the two are really not related. it was captain ed kowalczyk, the public information officer for the baltimore police department. he told us about the seven officers seriously injured. one of them apparently more seriously than the rest. we saw here on msnbc live at least what we believe to be one of those officers being carried out in dramatic fashion. a phalanx of officers in a protective posture around this person carrying them to an armored personnel carrier where they were loaded and driven off. that's what we saw live on tv. we also saw what appeared to be

juveniles, young men mostly throwing what looked like it could be rocks or bottles. that's what the reports are from the ground level. we saw that very clearly. there is a clash. but here's where the disconnect is. this service today, this church service was about freddie gray. >> right. >> reporter: about finding justice. about changing the baltimore police department. and billy murphy the family attorney said that we as a community need to tear down that blue wall of justice, that blue wall of silence. but he said it needs to be done through the system it needs to be done peacefully. and the family is giving the city police department and the city time to work through this investigation. that's something the people on the street are not responding to. calling them protesters calling them demonstrators would probably be fairly generous to this point. these are young people who are

joining in a show a demonstration against police and the police are at this point indulging some of them but locking a few of them up. but at this point, if the police push too hard things can really get out of control. so it's a very tight line that we're walking here these police officers are trying to maintain order, but at the same time not let things out of control. good luck on balancing that. >> yeah. that balance that you are focusing on, so well said because as we have known from recent headlines in the last year or so this is difficult on both sides, no doubt. do we know what the next steps might be? have we heard from police any indication from those that you have spoken with in the area? >> well, look this is a situation that has a lot of history behind it. this is not just an isolated

incident here. this is a community that doesn't trust the police doesn't trust the system to bring them justice. at the same time it's a police department that says everything is fine that there's no problem, that we will trust -- let me have ian, our photographer, swing the camera around here and, you know a couple of the young people from the neighborhood. >> can we go to that camera? let's go to brian's camera if we can. we cannot. >> reporter: where are you guys going? okay it's a group of about maybe 15 young kids i guess between the ages of about 15 and 20. some on their cell phones. no justice, no peace. they want justice. they say they want peace. right now, they're walking toward a situation that is on the verge of getting out of control. >> is that the age group that

you have heard reports about and that you have seen throughout the day, the last couple of hours? >> yes, it is precisely the sweet spot of young people that were involved in this from the very moment it began. according to wbal the local station. but what we just saw was a small group of young men who are walking toward this. they know what's happening. they want to see what's going on. not saying they want to get involved, but it's for a young kid. i want to see what's happening. if i was that age, i would want to be checking it out myself. but you can't tell who's demonstrator and who's agitator. >> unless you're walking in and out of the cvs without paying for items. >> reporter: exactly. >> what were they saying again, that you can remember that last group? >> reporter: no justice, no

peace. before they saw us they were chanting it. so it wasn't like they were just doing it for the cameras. they were saying no justice no peace. they were smiling, having a good time. kind of let's go have some fun kind of thing. not realizing this this could turn ugly very quickly if either side or the other decides to push it a little too far. and young kids like that could get caught in the middle of it. billy murphy the family attorney was begging people. the mayor, stephanie rawlings blake, was begging people. the twin sister of freddie gray begging people not to riot in this kind of way, not to protest in a violent way. that it doesn't do any good.

>> as you were saying as you started the report you're standing there at the location of the service. and they are absolutely against what is happening only five blocks away from them and the family members and the mayor, they've been very consistent in hoping this would not happen. here we see what is happening within the last few hours. not the wishes of freddie gray's family as well as the elected officials. brian, stand by because i do want to get to an individual who was a part of the government there. and that is nick mosby. thank you for being with me. from what you have heard from the officials in the city what do you know that we may not have been able to have information on yet? >> the one thing is when you talk about what's going on now, i attended the funeral earlier

today. i took part in being out there early on the street. i wouldn't say all but these are young folks. baltimore city public school high school children and what they've been doing is going through social media to do what they call the purgings. knowing they had this intel. riot gear on. at first it would seem to be a little peaceful a scene that would be broken up. as time went on over and over again, it turned into a lot of violence. i was driving from the church to city hall.

but these are children. and what i think what we're seeing is just their frustration, their anger. this is completely different than what the families have expressed and asked and begged of the city to respond. as it relates to fighting for justice. it's really a trying time this the city of baltimore. i represent this area and this district. >> and we've been watching the pictures coming from the vcvs. does this corner does this mall hold any sort of significance to the neighborhood, and the development of freddie gray? >> three or four men walked away from the cvs. pretty close to the church. all in the same general area.

these areas are very historic. the birthplace of thurgood marshall is really a couple blocks away on division street. these places are very important to the community. >> now brian mooar nbc's correspondent, was just telling us as he saw a group approaching him and seem to be concurring with his reporting there, and that is we're looking at not adults. 15 and up to 18. so just turning into adulthood. >> these are children. and again, they are -- you know these are children that are growing up. some in poverty. this is an issue that's not specifically tied to freddie gray. freddie gray is the culmination that sparked all of these. these are children that are

acting out the frustration of socioeconomic standards that they've lived in, that they've been a part of from police brutality to prison pipeline to undereducated folks. this is just a culmination of so many variables that plague the community. this is not the way to see justice. i think today there was an amazing service. >> as we look at this, there are some adults that are part of this, removing items from it appears the cvs there. what is the conversation that's happening between you and the other council members? have you spoken with the mayor?

have you spoken with the police department? what do you know? >> i have not spoken with the mayor or the police chief. it's just time for leadership to kind of really go in and solve this decades old of systemic issues in our communities. and these children are nothing more than by-products of those that have come before and the policies that have failed them before. we focus on freddie gray and this is what we talk about. we just have to find strong leadership to talk to these children, to settle them down. healing won't come until they see or they understand or know that folks are serious and folks are listening. and i think them acting up in this violent way, this inappropriate way is result of all of that. >> councilman are you able to watch the television now?

are you seeing the pictures that we're showing our viewers at the moment? >> i tell you, literally i just left north avenue about ten or 15 minutes ago. i drove past a cvs. >> and it appears that the live pictures are showing us at least one or two cars still burning. tell me what you see right now on the street. >> children acting up very violently. it's nothing that anybody wanted to see. we've had some amazing rallies throughout the week at the western district police station, at city hall all throughout the streets of baltimore. even on a saturday when there were small amounts that turned violent. but this is just a completely different direction. >> what would this corner look like? what would this direction look like normally at 5:17 eastern

time? >> at this time this intersection would be crowded and very bustling. it would be tons and tons of cars coming up and down pennsylvania avenue and north avenue. the subway station would be completely packed. a busy thoroughfare to help them. pennsylvania avenue just has so much history and culture as it relates to the past. >> how far is the closest police department station? >> the closest police department to this point, it would be the police department that they ultimately took freddie gray to which is the western district. mount street is probably about five to six blocks west and and the actual station is about ten blocks south. >> so about 15 blocks away

there. where is the closest school? >> tons of schools. i mean west baltimore is a densely populated area. >> so very close to this corner in the live pictures. >> yes very close. you have two high schools just -- two large schools. >> are you worried when sun sets in about three hours? >> oh i'm concerned. i'm concerned. i am really concerned. i'm concerned with the children being hurt. i know there are reports of police officers already being hurt. >> seven. seven injured.

>> one is really injured, they said. the person was unconscious for some time. >> that's correct. if you were on that intersection, what would you say to those kids? >> there's nothing but to say but stop. freddie gray would not want this. you can't allow him to die -- and violence does not beget violence. violence just brings more violence. it does not bring justice. and just stop. this is really sad. really extremely disappointing. especially since i've been on the ground and seeing all the positive work. i mean it's amazing to see so many children who felt so voiceless and so disenfranchised from the process all week you know, push and push and push and act in a very peaceful way of protesting, what they know the wrongs have been for decades.

unfortunately, this is all we'll see the next couple of days. >> and councilman, i do understand when you see this because this is your home. this is your neighborhood. >> this is my community. i live five minutes away tr herefrom here. >> the sadness you're feeling as you look at those pictures and if you were down on that corner you understand there's the issue of trust, because you brought it up. it's trust of the police department. it's trust of the elected government. and therefore it is trust perhaps of you. who do they trust do you believe at this moment? >> i don't think they know who to trust. they feel disconnected. they feel a lot of distrust. i think that's going to be a complex problem that needs to be

solved. how can you approach and talk to these young folks to let them know we care about them and we are willing to provide them with real opportunities to be productive citizens. i mean at the end of the day, everybody is born in this world with the ability of becoming whatever they want to be. but unfortunately, we have pockets of populations who fail systemic policies that have caused this whole disenfranchisement. this whole ideology that i don't have a choice. and unfortunately, this violence that we're seeing today are our children speaking to us. >> councilman and we've got to go here but i thank you for stopping by because i know you probably have a very busy evening. what are your plans for the rest of the evening here? as we see this car on the left-hand side of our screen ignite, it appears. perhaps there's some gasoline in one of the sub tanks that exploded. what is your plan in the next

three or four hours? >> i'm scheduled to go to a council meeting, where i plan on calling on my colleagues. >> when is that? >> i'm actually a few minutes away going in now. >> it's at 6:00 p.m.? >> no it's at 5:00. i'm late. >> and then from that a plan will be put together to handle what we're seeing on the streets right now? >> yeah i'll be talking to the police commissioner. but i know that some men from the community have been in the area to talk to the children to try to pull the children back. we do not want to finishsee this violence at all. >> councilman nick mosby.

after the hearing, give us a call and we'd love to hear from you the next steps, if you don't mind. >> sure. >> appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> let's go to tessa aston hill president of the baltimore branch naacp. tessa, your reaction to what you see right now, if you are watching what is on our live pictures here coming out. we have a police vehicle here. all four doors open. clearly one of the early vehicles that was vandalized. you heard what the councilman was saying. the hope that they can go to the corner and reach the youth that are there and give them a message to say stop doing this. >> yes, i agree with councilman nick mosby. i talked to people on the

corner. i too live up in that district. i live off of that corridor there where this is happening. i've had several people men, call me that live in the gilmore area where freddie gray was apprehended by the police and stopped and they called me and asked me what did i want them to do. they wanted to come with me and go 20, 30 of them wanted me to allow them to go with me and go up to mondawmin and see what they could do to help. i told them no. just stand down. because in cases like this four people got locked up. and someone was saying they weren't doing anything. so what's going to happen tonight is that there's going to be several young people and some adults probably get locked up and they're going to be people who were in the crowd around the crowd. but when the police do their work and start pulling people in and locking them up there's going to be some people who probably didn't do anything but they're there.

and they're in the mix and that's going to be bad. i am really shocked that people are doing this. because as we say all the time and if these people look at the news burning cars attacking stores and innocent people those store owners and people in mondawmin and that area had nothing to do with freddie gray's death. we want the police indicted. we want justice, but bothering other people's property is not going to solve the problem. i used to be a teenager. i know what can happen. i was there in the '60 0'60. we don't need to devastate our neighborhoods. we have no recovery. people don't want to have a store there. if it's a small mom and pop store, it may not can recover. so we're doing damage to the community that we have to live in. our teenagers and people work in some of these stores. now the stores are going to be closed. somebody won't make employment tomorrow. so they're going to be short on their rent. it's a rippling effect on all of these things. i wish they would understand it's not going to help. >> and i know what you do not want to have to say is what you

just did, because we've heard the story, haven't we so many times within the last year or so. because it is their own community. when you were there, what did you hear? >> people just running around saying let's do something. just being active. they think they're acting out on the behalf of freddie gray but i was at freddie gray's funeral today and it was a beautiful service with ministers and the family talking about love and respect, and the family was asking not for nothing to happen on a day of his funeral. and hoping that would be a ripple effect and people would be calm. today was the day for the family to celebrate his life and to bury him, and they didn't want violence. they didn't want violence at all. but they sure didn't want any calm rallies today because it was a day for them to do what they have to do. >> how close were you to this area, this corner close to

mondawmin mall there close to the cvs? how close were you to that corner? >> i wasn't that far away. i was more on the side where the subway stops are, where the mta stop is and a patrol. i was on that area. that's as far as i could get with my car. i did stand on the corner with three or four people who rode with me. i saw people putting on their gear. when i drove back downtown, the sheriff's department now have on all their active gear and helmets and about 30 or 50 sheriffs were gearing up to come uptown and to be involved in this, to help the police and others. so all the security forces and police are all coming to help. downtown is isolated and everybody has vacated downtown. >> we got you for another minute and a half here. what was your sense of safety? how would you describe that? >> well i wasn't fearful. i'm not a fearful person. i mean i'm in the community all the time. i've done this for a long time. so i'm not fearful. i usually try to talk to young

people and say be cool be careful. i don't want them to get arrested. most the time, they say yes, ma'am. so when you engage them and not in a hostile way, they can be doing something bad, but i still talk to them in a way that i'm trying to give them respect and talk in a peaceful manner. they have no leader. they have situations that they're engageing themselves with. it's somebody who thinks they're the leader, but this is all chaotic. >> tessa aston hill from the baltimore branch of the naacp. i'm sure we'll be talking to you as the hours and days come at us from here. thank you so much for joining us here on "the ed show." thank you. >> thank you. >> i'm joined now by phone by congressman rupersberger. you're from maryland. what have you heard about what's happening here? >> first thing, i'm home grown from baltimore. i represent the baltimore region.

a small part of baltimore. but very upset. when you grow up in a town when you're proud of your town or from baltimore, we just celebrated the war of 1812 francis scott key. baltimore is a great place to be and to raise a family. and it's very disappointing. you have to understand that there are many people who are extremely upset because they feel there has not been justice as far as freddie gray. but, you know when you have a small group who are setting places on fire, that are looting, that are bringing innocent people and attempting to attack them or harass them that's not what we want people to know what baltimore's about. so now what we have to do is come together call out to citizens in the baltimore area, especially in these neighborhoods, to stand up and try to let the juveniles or anyone who wants to end violence

to stop it. you're hurting yourself. another issue too is that there was a funeral today. freddie gray's family from day one, including his twin sister said let's not let the violence take root. that does nothing. to have this violence the day he was buried is not great for the family. it's not great for baltimore. it's got to stop. you have to have law enforcement. and that's not who we are in baltimore. >> the parallel would be of course, ferguson as we looked at michael brown and where he lived. there were two or three shrines where his apartment was at, just blocks away at sam's deli similar to cvs. we're seeing what appears to be looting. >> i think one or two cars have been set on fire.

>> we did see two at one point. we have the police vehicle that was also damaged, and here is that picture again of this police vehicle on fire with a van right behind it. seven officers have been injured. we believe one seriously here in what has happened about two and a half hours old. have you spoken with any of the officials there in baltimore, it is baltimore police department? >> at this point, the mayor is extremely busy and she has a lot on her plate as well as the commissioner. the issue i think from the mayor's point of view is to make sure she communicates as much as she can or the commissioner. we cannot tolerate violence. i think if you looked at what happened saturday night, when we had also an oriole baseball game around the corner from where things occurred the police showed a lot of restraint.

but in the end, when people are acting out and breaking the law, when they're looting stores then we have to stand up. that's who we are as a country. on the other hand, solve this program long-term. we have to understand why there's frustration in these neighborhoods, especially with juveniles who live in the areas where there's a lot of poverty. and then they feel that there has not been justice. but you heard member of the city council. you heard our mayor. you heard other people talk about fine, we have to change things. we're going to investigate. we have the federal government involved. we cannot continue to have this relationship between police. a lot of good policemen put their lives on the line every day. and the acts of a few have caused a serious problem, but there's a lack of trust now.

>> and you were alluding to saturday, april 25th, 35 people arrested. six officers were hurt on that saturday. and now we are here on the monday, the 27th two days later. seven officers injured. and we were listening to the captain earlier, and he was describing to us how the injuries progressed throughout the hours. but there was the threat the credible threat that baltimore police did tweet out about six hours ago. and then there were the preparations no doubt after they believed they had found a credible threat to law enforcement. and then began to work with local and state law enforcement partners they were saying after that particular threat. what do you know of the threat? were you also made aware of it, and did you have to offer guidance on that? >> well first thing, i was a former prosecutor years ago.

and i've done a lot of criminal work. i was also a past ranking member of the intelligence committee. i do a lot with terrorism and national security. so intelligence is extremely important to get information. one of my biggest fears of what's happening now is that there will be gangs coming together. and attempting to incite and attempting to attack police officers. when you attack your police in that chaos, no one is safe. so we have to stand up and make sure that we do things the right way, that we have our communities stand up. and i think elijah cummings said this. he represents the area where this is occurring. that it's a lot of injustice, but we're going to deal with that. we're going to get the facts and there's going to be consequences and there's going to be a system that follows. but we also have to change things. we cannot continue to go on with the way things are. because we will have these

situations over and over again. but when you threaten your police officers, when you threaten your military and what i mean by that on an international basis with what al qaeda is doing that type of thing. i mean you have to stand up. you have to have justice. otherwise you allow these bad people who just want to incite and will take juveniles and try to have them incite, then no one is safe especially innocent people who live in these neighborhoods and love baltimore and they want to be able to walk down the street. a business owner doesn't want to worry about his store being looted and everything that he's paid for is gone. that's why you have to get a community group, and i think the mayor has done a good job in getting together ministers who have a lot of parishioners who listen to them. community leaders. i think the mayor is saying you've got to help us and we've got to stop it and not tolerate injustice. >> and we're watching clearly a

limited group of dozens that have decided to hit the streets, go to the cvs and attack police vehicles in the area. we will see what happens in the coming hours. maryland congressman ruppersberger, thank you for spending time with us. what is happening right now, there is a council meeting happening at this moment where as we've been told by one of the council members, they are determining what the next steps are as we watch some pictures of what appears to be looting at this cvs pharmacy which is in the center part there of west baltimore. also what we understand according to an official the white house is monitoring this situation in baltimore. we are also hearing that the baltimore police department is asking parents to take their children home or get their children home. that is what we know at the moment. seven officers have been injured, according to the

baltimore police department. that is what we know. this incident, what is now two to three hours old. i want to get to former congress congressman jc watts of oklahoma. you represent rand paul. do you expect him to come to baltimore too? >> well, richard, i'm on the outside looking in. i kind of just started to monitor the situation the last hour or so and i've seen what the tv screen has shown me. we did encourage senator paul to go to ferguson and talk to the community, and i suspect in this situation in baltimore, i think what the representative said i know elijah cummings i know that he'll be on top of it but i pray for great wisdom for the community leaders, the mayor the police department as they navigate through a very very

sensitive situation. >> have you spoken with any of the officials in the area? and the reason why i ask that of all our guests is this is a developing breaking story obviously, and we're trying to get the most information to understand what is happening here. we heard just moments ago, probably about 15 minutes ago, that the city council was meeting starting at 5:00 p.m., and they will determine what will be next. we've been looking at mostly pictures out of a cvs farmsy. now it looks like we're looking at a group, a larger group here if you can see this on the screen, that is in front of looks to be a check cashing location. as you've looked at these pictures, what is the reaction that you have heard from those that you speak with? >> well, again, richard, i want to be responsible and i've not spoken to anyone at this point. i heard what the representative

said prior to me coming on. i was supposed to be on the show tonight to talk about presidential politics. but this has obviously unfolded and we're focused here. but i would say what's going on at the cvs and the check-cashing place there, that's never good. and if there has been an injustice, if there has been a wrong, that takes away from what the injustice allegedly was. or what the wrong was, because people tend to focus on you know, the cvs. i hate that's happened. that's unfortunate. but nevertheless the community leadership the community itself ministers, city council, the mayor, i know she's got her hands full. and she's got more than she can

say grace over on her plate right now minus this. but this has happened. again, i just pray for great wisdom for all of the community as they navigate through a very sensitive situation. >> did you expect this to reach this level? did you expect to see -- well we're looking at baltimore, maryland. but did you expect to see another ferguson? as we see these drum beats happen we just had -- at least at nbc universal, a state of race conversation last week in washington, d.c. and the big question was what is that relationship between police and government, government and community, community leaders and community, and the expectation was that there was some solution here so that we wouldn't have to see these live pictures coming out of baltimore, maryland at that check cashing location.

but maybe the answer cannot be had. what is your thought about the answer to this? >> well richard, what we saw in ferguson with the justice department's report that came out, and even what we see here tonight for whatever reason it's never a good situation when it becomes an us versus them. that just leads to more chaos and again great wiszdom is required. i did make the assessment as i have traveled around the country this year and as i often do i have the chance to go in and out of different communities. i was in south carolina about three weeks ago, three or four weeks ago when it happened. so i have traveled around the country, talked to a lot of people. i made the statement here about two months ago to some friends

of mine. i said we could be looking at a long, hot summer in more ways than one. and so as we have this discussion, i think one of the problems with it is we get so imbedded in talking points and we get so imbedded on the 30,000-foot level that we never peel the onion really to get down to a 300-foot level and say hey, how do we resolve this? it's not the police officers. it's not the community. it's not black. it's not white. it's all of us. we all have a role to play in this and bring some civility to what i believe is in my personal opinion traveling around the country a somewhat sensitive situation. and that's the very reason that we encourage senator paul to go to ferguson and don't go there thinking that you have all the

answers. go there with more ears than mouth, and listen and hear the hearts of what people are saying. good bad, indifferent, right, wrong. people need to be heard in times like this. on both sides. police community, etc., etc. so i hope that again the mayor and her team and the city officials, elijah cummings the representative before me that -- again, the third time i say i hope they will use great wisdom or god will give them great wisdom in this difficult time. >> we've got to go, but i want to ask you this because you were to be on the ed show tonight to talk about presidential politics. you talked about how you've been traveling the country discussing issues very much related to this. what do you want and how do you see it as part of the platforms for the presidential nominees as we get closer to 2016?

how high on that list do you want to see these sorts of issues on their platforms? >> very high. and that's the reason that i'm supporting rand paul. because as i have had his ear the last two and a half three years, we talked to him about not just getting the economy cranked up again and churning on all 12 cylinders, but also targeting the communities, underserved communities with opportunities and growing jobs. i don't think we need more taxes, richard. i think we need more taxpayers. so what we're encouraging them to do in detroit and chicago and atlanta atlanta -- i think there's ways that people want to work together and want to get some things done but as i said at

the outset we've got to get beyond the talking points and somehow or another get beyond this republican-democrat thing, or the liberal-conservative wing. we've got the liberal wing and the conservative wing and the poor bird is dying. so somehow or another we've got to get beyond that and we've got to get out of our comfort zone and do what i've encouraged senator paul to do and what he has done over the last two and a half, three years. >> thank you so much for joining us on this story today. former representative j.c. watts. thank you so much for your perspective. >> thank you. >> if you're just joining us here on msnbc on "the ed show," i want to get you up to date in terms of what we know at this moment. live pictures coming from a chopper cam. key was a cvs pharmacy. there's also a check cashing location where we've seen the energy ebb and flow where there were dozens sometimes none. you saw the live picture. it looked to be pretty quiet. this is from a little bit

earlier where there were individuals flowing in and out. two or three dozens at the cash checking location. that seemed to have a lot of activity at this 5:46 p.m. hour on the east coast. we have heard from the police department there in baltimore. seven officers have been injured in violent clashes there. we are also hearing, according to the baltimore police department, they received a credible threat to law enforcement. their intelligence unit saying they received credible information that members of various gangs, including the black guerrilla family, bloods and have entered into an agreement. they believe it was a credible threat and is a credible threat and that the agents there in the area, they are suggesting that they all take appropriate precautions to make sure that their officers are safe and perhaps that is why we see at

this moment at least in these pictures, and they're limited certainly because we're looking from these chopper cams at just three locations at the moment. they want to make sure that their officers are safe. this of course based on the number of reported injured so far, seven from the baltimore police department. but again, from the baltimore police department saying these three groups, three gangs, various gangs, they believe the partnership was formed to take out law enforcement officers in the area. and then at around 2:00 they began to tweet that there was activity happening in the area. there's about two, three hours ago. a vehicle still on fire. two or three at a time in these live pictures that we've been able to show you. there has been some response from the white house, from an official saying the white house is monitoring the situation in baltimore. president obama is back at the white house at the moment. and there are several other

police departments that are watching this, of course. new haven is one. the new york police department is also watching what is happening there on the ground as well as connecticut and various other states. i will now also let you know that we just heard from the baltimore orioles and they have a game tonight at 7:05 and that game with the chicago white sox at this moment from what we're hearing, will be happening. now, that ballpark is very -- it is somewhat close to the locations that we're watching here at the cvs pharmacy. but at this hour that is what we know in terms of the very latest happening in baltimore, maryland. i want to bring in now paul henderson, veteran prosecutor and legal analyst, pastor michael mcbride jim cavanaugh, msnbc law enforcement analyst, and bring back tessa aston hill president of the baltimore branch of the naacp. paul as we were just discussing the issues of the case and what is happening there

on the ground interlinked as witnesses have said tessa told us moments ago that they were saying the name of freddie gray. this was this was for freddie gray. and if recent experience or recent events give us any indication, the discussion might be happening, can local law enforcement handle what is happening right now? what's your perspective? >> well here's the thing. and i just want to point out, even as we're looking and watching this unfold i just have to say, we have to recognize that the majority of these rallies and the majority of these gatherings that we have been having and hearing about in association with this tragedy, have been utterly and absolutely peaceful. and so it's certainly disappointing that we see the behavior today, but i think it's bigger and it's beyond just freddie gray. it's disappointing that it's

happening on the day that we have his funeral and also the day that we have -- the first day where loretta lynch is being sworn in as attorney general. but let's take a step backwards, because freddie gray represents the latest controversy in association with a series of african-american men, who have encounters with law enforcement and i'll even say security officers as well because i want to wrap trayvon gray into that as well that result in death. and that's the bigger problem. and that's the issue. certainly, these controversies as they're evolving and it is very similar and it is tied to the anger and the frustration from disenfranchised communities that we've seen in ferguson in the past. i'll tell you, one of the things that does not happen is that the police department has made excuses and has given defenses there on a local level, and that is not what communities want to

hear. here's what i think would be most helpful for elected officials and for agencies to be doing, is to come out and give as much information as they can, early on. >> paul stand by for a second -- paul hang on one second. we seem to be watching a live police chase from one of the chopper cams that we've been watching live video from in the downtown area. >> correct. >> now, as that is ongoing and we see activities there in the area. and i just want to -- one last week here paul from your legal perspective, and i was noting just a moment ago, and that was the credible threat they believe there are three gangs and they put out in that statement that they have formed some sort of pact to act out against officers. what do you make of that? >> an alliance. >> right. what do you make of that? >> i think that's always a problem. anytime you have an alliance to engage in criminal conduct against anyone that's a problem.

i just don't want that to diminish the significance of the problem that the community is frustrated about. the individual bad actors that are engaging in criminal behavior, certainly, it's easy to be very judgmental of that and we all should be judgmental of this. i just don't want the bigger message lost. i don't want there to be a disparate treatment focused on the looting that we have the vandalism that we have those are problems as well no one is going to agree that that's what should be taking place, but we do have a bigger problem, and that's what i want to focus on. i want to make sure that we're still all paying attention to the bigger picture, and not just addressing that a cvs got broken into. i'm very concerned about -- >> that concern has been very consistent and i think that those watching this understand, there is this umbrella or this foundation, wherever way you'd like to say it this is having this sort of affect. and it's not the core of that umbrella or that foundation but it's certainly a symptom of it

and you so well put it there. jim cavanaugh, msnbc law enforcement analyst. one last question then again on what we're looking at what we got from the police department saying that there's alliance, fact between three gangs on the ground there. and that therefore, is why we might be seeing what's happening today and why seven officers according to the police department, were injured. >> the police department has to take that threat serious, and they thought it was a credible threat. gangs like the black gorilla family and the crips and bloods are widely known for violence. in atf, we worked on those gangs all the time we had guns they were involved in shootings, they were involved in violence. so when the police say that's a credible threat, you know, on the heels of the two nypd officers involved in brooklyn they have to take it seriously. so they have to take the appropriate measures to keep the officers safe.

but i think we're all concerned that one officer wuss severely injured and was unconscious and others maybe suffered some broken bones. so the department has to do the right things. it looks like a measured response, we're not seeing, you know, them pressing too hard right here but they're gathering their forces. darkness is coming, when you start seeing arson, you know, thing can get bad fast. >> well we are hearing from wbal, our affiliate there, that they will begin using tear gas tonight and there have been some reports of perhaps that happening, but wbla saying they are planning on using tear gas tonight. president of the baltimore branch of the naacp, what do you know of these three groups that i just mentioned? >> well i know of them. i have done some work with a few members of the black gorilla family that i met accidentally and most of the time they have not done anything to harm

others, it's usually within the group that they have some arguments, which they call family arguments. the ones i've actually met while in court helping other people they were members. and i've talked to them tried to engage them to see how we could be of help to try to change some people's minds as far as the direction was going. and i have not in my years of working in the community, seen them attack anybody outside of their own environment. i have not seen where they've come and kept. and we have not had a lot of incidents where police have been attacked in baltimore city in my lifetime. >> live pictures again out of baltimore, maryland. and some distressing pictures if you've been watching for our viewers here. cars have been speeding by. it's undetectable in terms of whether or not they're law enforcement vehicles, but individuals in the streets chasing them and it appears to be throwing items at these cars as they're going by. and this police vehicle, which we've had several shots of so far today, and it appears, just

strictly based on these pictures, because we've been looking at it for the last hour on msnbc, we've been watching these pictures for several hours, it doesn't seem to be dissipating. as we see the evening come and we heard from our affiliate, wbal, that they do intend the police department there, to use tear gas. and the police department also saying parents, please bring in your children. get your children home. pastor michael mcbride of the national pico network, i can't imagine what you are thinking as a leader of the community there, as a leader of faith. >> certainly my heart goes out to the freddie gray and baltimore community. i have been in conversation with a number of our clergy colleagues on the ground. and i will say this we need to

historyize what's happening. and just this week we saw in other cities like chicago, boyd's killer was not held accountable. iona jones in detroit. we have these things just bubbling up all over the place, and it is a historical reality for black and brown communities all across the country. and that's why the anger is palpable. that's why it's boiling over. one of the long-term civil rights leaders in the naacp, said in 1941 when he was born his mom enrolled him in the ney naacp and the number one issue was police brutality. of course, we should denounce all these troubling demonstrations of people's overflowing anger, fear and pain, but if we want to understand it so we can get some solutions, we can't speak in platitudes and we can't muddy the waters. the truth is the young people and the families are reacting in various forms of grief and

outrage, because another young man in their community was mutilated, body was broken by the police department, and there continues to be no accountability in realtime. and that is the issue that we must keep our focus on or we will risk not solving the problem. >> finish it off for us. we have 30 seconds here pastor if you can. what would be your prayer tonight for this? what would be your prayer? >> my prayer would be that we all would react with great peace, with our best intentions that everyone would be safe. the young people and the people in the communities, the law enforcement officers, public officials. that everyone would be safe. that peace would descend, that justice will come swiftly. that people will be held accountable. that the rage will dissipate. and tomorrow we will wake up with a renewed effort and focus and commitment to solving the problems that are facing our

countries and our communities. >> pastor michael mcbride, paul henderson, tessa aston hill, thank you for your time tonight. that's "the ed show." "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. we continue with that breaking news from baltimore. these are live irpictures from the city where clashes between police and an angry crowd have at times turned violent. the tensions beginning late this afternoon, when police formed a line in the street and some people responded by throwing rocks and battles. the clashes quickly escalating. at one point, the crowd hurled a trash can at a police vehicle. later, a police car was set on fire. the smoke and flames filling the street. police say others in the crowd