when individuals get crowbars and try to open doors to loot they're not protesting. they're stealing. >> there is still a police presence by a much different feeling. >> instead of sirens and grass, singing and dancing. >> as the baltimore orioles can sell their second game in a row. >> tomorrow's game will be played with no fans. >> stop the violence please. >> you can still hear the alarm

going on in what was the cvs. >> i want them to rebuild this so it's like this way it was. >> i wept for my city. today i'm cleaning for my city. >> it's time to go home. time to go home. >> they were taking rocks and glass and come in. they were pushing the crowd away and out it worked t. curfew is in fact working. >> i don't understand nothing we're going through. it ain't happening in ya'all neighborhood. >> a day after clashes with plus caused property destruction and led to about 250 arrests. residents worked together to clean up and reclaim their city t. city wide curfew in effect overnight helped keep the calm. public schools will be opened today, less than 48 hours

after the city's worst rioting since 1968. the protests were related, of course, to the still unexplained death of 25-year-old freddie gray. he was fatally injured while in police custody. we have the latest and where that investigation stands just ahead. last night fewer than a dozen arrests were reported after police clashed with 200 people who tried to find 10:00 p.m. kur now. >> those are just isolated incidents compared to monday evening as 2,000 national guardsmen and 1,000 officers were on hand to patrol those streets overnight. >> the people of baltimore have risen to the occasion. there were so many great situations where people were standing arm in arm and backing people away from police lines

saying not tonight. >> yesterday the cvs stores that went up in protests volunteers came together to help clean up the vandalism. >> i'm out here because i couldn't stand what i saw yesterday and i want to be a part of the solution. i saw social media getting comments to people. i said i'm not doing it by attacking it that way. i want to be a part of the solution. >> reporter: a lot of people behind you are volunteering here. what do you go about the crowd showing up here? >> this is beautiful. there is baltimore. this is the way you want the city separated. >> i hope the people out here continue to stay out here to see if it escalate into something more. because if these kids come back we need to be out here to show them this is not what we stand for. we the fought. there is not what we represent and baltimore and we fed to do so much more. these kids are lost and they need some help. >> some of the 85,000 children who were not in school due to a city wide public school closure

also hit the streets to do their part. >> i didn't all of this to look like this i want this to look like it never burnt down. i want them to rebuild at this time way it was. >> we get accused of only focusing on one city block. there was a lot of good happening yesterday. there is clearly questions about leadership and questions about a tale of two cities in baltimore that has happened over the past several decades, where have you this water front, which is booming and beautiful and safe and then other parts of the city that have been left to just fall apart on their own, leaving people to this situation. >> again, we really did see, what happened two days agree go in baltimore was isolated the anger widespread for every reason in the world. but as far as people acting out the way they acted out two nights ago, as president obama talked about thugs and i think criminals or whatever, that was

isolated. and, mike, we even saw yesterday some moms not taking the streets back taking their sons back saying hey, enough. this is very very positive very very helpful and let me just say, i think what happened gled baltimore is a model for other cities to follow. we talked badly about bot more. i mean but yesterday what a great example of how a city rises to the occasion. >> well the video clip the mother in yellow toya graham chasing her son michael down the street in baltimore. she saw him on tv throwing rocks at police. she raced out of her home. she found him on the street and we all saw what happened in the video that's been seen by millions of people around the world and when asked about her son michael, 16 years ofably she says is he a perfect boy, no but he's my boy and --

>> amen. >> that is i think exhibit a. >> tough love. >> for parenting in situations like this. and also as the president said yesterday was so true i don't know what you thought about it when he said about baltimore, what we're seeing in baltimore. what we're seeing for the past two days out of baltimore. this is nothing new. >> it's nothing new. you know it's a bigger issue. what we've seen as a flash point and the uneven development. the tale of two city the high poverty and i'm struck because we looked at there and i was here a month or so talking about the economy has come back but there is still very high unemployment. and what happens is police community tension become flash points for bicker problems. but i want to say this this is an almost today. we saw it in new york. we saw it in ferguson we seen it in baltimore, of people who

infiltrate peaceful protests to cause problems. what we saw obviously that you all have mentioned is a pushback against that in baltimore. but this is a continuing story. tomorrow there there is going to be a preliminary investigation of the liss to the prosecutors. so this is ongvenl i hope the urban league in baltimore and nationally wants to be a part of an effort to focus the attention on the city. >> this is her, a quick sound byte with her. then i have something to say. >> lo and behold i turn around and i look in this crowd and my son is actually coming across the stret with this hoodie on a mask. at that point i just lost it. and he gave me eye contact and at that point not even thinking about cameras or anything like

that. that's my only son and at the end of the day, i don't want him to be a freddie gray. but to stand up there and vandalize police officers that's not justice. that's not where i'm a single mom and i have six children and i just choose not to live like that no more. i don't want that for him. >> so i like that we started the show with the positive developments, having said that just to sort of counter, and bring in the reality, this is the city joe, that cannot have a baseball game today, which is -- >> well, they're going to have a game but no fans. >> no crowd. that's fairly unprecedented. that's a sign they can't accommodate a normal american tradition. >> i 24i actually major league baseball is bending over backwards, they're doing what needs to be done to keep the

city safe. i think everybody has after the first night the slow response by the mayor in baltimore, i think everybody has come together and they're doing this much better. i will say, though as i said before, this is a city that has ever reason to be angry. you know we sit here and not just us everybody talks about, you know we debate well, what is the economic expansion of the ''80s better than the economic expansion of the '90s? how does the recovery from the wall street crash in 2008 compare to past recoveries? at least all conversations that are irrelevant in the part of baltimore that burned a couple of nights ago, because michael still there has been no recovery in these areas in the ''80s. there has been no recovery in the '90s. there is no recovery now. this is a city that

unfortunately, america has forgotten like so many other city parts of this city have been hopeless for 50 years. >> baltimore is an example, joe about the add annual of lifting the tide of boats. if baltimore the problem with is you don't have a boat. when the tide of pros period of time prosperity comes in that community is wlarnlly left behind. this is systemic. it has been ongoing. it is a failure of political leadership. it's a failure of the business community that doesn't stay at best to take the risks that they should take. so now, hopefully, in this moment, folks will realize the opportunities. there are so many voices that have risen in this over the last 48 hours-to-that can lead this city forward. the question they will put in place, working with community organizers working with those folks on the ground and living there as well as those who are going to be invited to come in

to help them build the boat so the tide of prosperity can lift them in ball more to a new height. >> you know the protest may have subsouth islanded overnight in baltimore. but the violence and looting promises to have long lasting effects for businesses in the area. joining us now live from baltimore, nbc's peter alexander. peter, you have an incredible story of one business which is one of many but you also have been hearing from residents koeg on the ground. how are they responding? >> well you saw some of the responses already at the top of the show mica people picking um up broornlgs not bricks. yesterday's violence you describe it it was the result of a combustible mix of poverty, crime and hopelesses in. unfortunately, a lot of families will live with the consequences of what happened monday night and the losses they a experiencing are crushing. take a lack. >> for more than eight hours the levy family helplessly watched their under surveillance cameras from home as looters gutted the

store they have owned for 35 years. >> they were coming in college us out totally. >> reporter: they want to rebuild. where do you begin? >> it's just sad. my heart is breaking my heart is breaking for baltimore, it's breaking for all the store owners, it's breaking for us. >> reporter: mother of tree ter res have a joyce who worked here 25 years is without a job. >> i walked in and saw the store torn apart. it ripped me to shreds. it's sad. >> reporter: you see hoy emotional she was. as we said she is the mother of three and this just wasn't a family business owned by the levys. it was a business that benefitted her and her family as well. she says that they too, will be among those devastated by what took place here. so many students, 85,000 going back to school t. ceo of baltimore schools said what se saw on monday night, these initial confrontations by high

school students in baltimore, he called them inexcusable. he says what we are provideing is a call to action for adults to provide better for the young people in this community. >> peter alexander, thank you. that family watched on security videos at their home azzurri otters went in there and ripped that place apart. as you can see torn to shreds. >> it's devastating. you know we see this in baltimore. we saw it in ferguson and we've seen it unfortunately too many places and mark halperin we talk about police brutality. there is police brutality. we talk about access and there certainly is access in a lot of these communities, but the daily news talks about america's crisis. there is another story and that is a permanent under class in america that all the social engineering from you know what politico after another making

one promise after another, it has failed and it's failed miserably over the past 50 years. >> and the on honus is on those who have done more things. its a great city. it's one of america's great cities. they love the orals there. the fact that they can't play a game, as mica says said it's symbolic and horrible. you go less than a month where the stadium is that development is, it is no economic opportunity. no ed kath opportunity. fraught reasons with law enforcement. those that want to continue the policies of the prefer mares have to ask and explain, why is it going to solve -- >> i'm going to push back ob you. the reason is the mayor can't fix the problem alone. it's state government -- >> i'm not talking about this mayor. 50 years of failed policy. >> let me make my point. >> don't talk about this mayor. >> i said mayors.

okay. joe. i said mayors. >> 50 years. >> let me make my point. i want to make my point. >> you said that 12 times. make your point. >> this is ar important point. >> that is not for this to turn into just a simple blame game. the last 50 years and i'll tell you what's happened there was a tarp to bail out the banks. there was a trillion dollar tarp to bail out the banks. >> right. >> there was no main street problem. this problem has worsened in the recession, in the post-recession america. iefb on this show. i have been in the media for the last five years. i spent 30 years working in cities. >> right. >> 30 years working in cities and in the last five years as we've reported on high unemployment on increasing poverty, in the recovery in the recovery, people have said wow, that's fantastic. but where is the initiative to respond to this? i will agree with you.

that we need to do some new things. but one of the problems is is that we never followed through on commitment. >> so can i ask you? i don't understand. i think we all agree here what are you? i don't understand the pushback. that's what's confusing me. >> the push intak from the idea that we had. >> you do agree, there are pockets again show this again, there are pockets of poverty in america that hasn't gotten better over the past few years. >> you are missing my point. >> we agree, right? >> we agree on pockets of poverty. on the nature of the crisis. i'm quoted in the daily news. that's my quote that america is in crisis. but i think the issue is is how do you move forward and what i'm going to say is that and i push back. i was mayor. i had limited ability and limited power. you need the help of zbiefts. you need the help of federal governments. why is it in baltimore there was

rightfully so tremendous tax incentives to build a water front. to build the stadiums where were the tax incentives and the public investment to rebuild the neighborhoods that are in trouble? >> hold on a sec, again, mr. mayor, we agree with you. we're not talking about mayor, we're talking about federal government, the state government we're talking about how america has to look at this permanent under class. still and this is again that's what i was -- i didn't understand what we were disagreeing about. >> exactly. >> because we're saying the same thing here. there is a permanent under class where public instinct. if we give everybody tax breaks everything will be great if we start a new program, everything will be great. i call that trickle down liberalism, where we count on the government doesn't work. trickle done conservatism where we cut taxes for business doesn't work.

>> doesn't work. >> we node to look at this permanent under class, michael still, and you tried to do it yourself. and we need to think anew. >> yeah. i, you know, i understand what mark is saying but, you know serving as leiutenant government for the state from 2003 to 2007 and watching and being a part of the redevelopment of baltimore, particularly east and east of baltimore. one of the questions i ask is go to your permanent point about the permanent under class when we finally get the notion we help people and like i said before create that tide of prosperity. not everyone has the vote that rises with it. so when you reidentify a community, one of the plans to make sure the grandmother and grandfather that has been there 40 50 years, gets to stay in that home and keep that ownership. so the next generation has an investment they can then build upon. that's not a part of the equation. you are absolutely right, joe, there are so many more pieces

left off the table. everybody looks at the trickle down idea. well if we give them more tax incentives. okay. great, where are you putting those incentives? in a place where people actually live? so people can keep their homes or you wipe the slate clean an push them out? >> let me ask if i can then here on this set, all three have served in public office. let me ask you the question. how many people did you serve with who know one fundamental thing, how hard it is to be poor in the united states of america, that the most important social program you could pass in any legislature in lousiana in maryland in florida or in the country the most important social program is spelled j.o.b. and how many people did you serve with know how hard it is to take like six bus rides to

get to a job that might be 15 miles from your home. >> have you so little that you can't even live. >> how many people did you serve with that you live on a block where you are the only filmed with single parent or no parent households how many know that the school that a kid guess to michael the 16-year-old, is probably not as good as the school in chevy chase or baton rouge or tallahassee, how many of the people you serve with know this? >> right. you know i think for me it was a mixed bag. some sensedist. some felt it. some didn't. and, you know, i had a chance to serve in the 1990s and in the 1990s, many cities saw declining unemployment. they saw if you will declining crime and declining poverty

rates. so i wouldn't paint with a blanket, but i think that what i say, mike that the context of today, and it's very important to think we've come out of a recession, how do we move forward today? >> well i tell you one thing. we saw the peter alexander piece the cvs, those jobs won't come back for three, four five years. >> and swimming upstream. >> what i have been saying for 20 years, mr. mayor, it's what i learned in washington, d.c. everybody has a lobbyist. everybody has a lobbyist but the poor. that's why banks get trillion dollar bailouts. they screw up the economy. they make unbelievably risky bet, which actually prey on some of the poorest and most disadvantaged, then they get becamed out. then they get to reinvest their trillions of dollars, they get to make even more money and the poor don't have lobbyists. what do we do mike? >> i know what the poor expect

the poor like many american voters expect that their representatives that they vote for are going to be tear primary advocates and you are making a competentary on a system in america where a lot of voters they push back to the idea why do i need a professional? i have you. i voted for you. well you go fight for me. and that's you no at the reality. so what you see and i'm senseing this and it strikes seems to me that a lot of the reaction you also see is people losing faith in traditional politics in elected officials in the fact that elected officials are going to be responsive beyond the cameras to a crisis of this nature. >> at the end of the day, for me, of all things i've seen my car, of all the things i've seen, that can make a dent in the community and bring hope to the hopeless is real education reform. i mean. we've seen it in pockets here. we have got to invest in education.

we got to invest wisely and we have got to do away with a system that keeps a lot of these kids trapped in the worst parts of these cities. >> you saw that bear out. and speaking of representatives, coming up, we'll speak with u.s. congressman elijah cummins of maryland, he has been walking the streets of maryland all week working with his constituents pastor jamal bryant and jayne miller with an investigation into gray's deficit and we'll go live to camden yard where they are going to play in a stadium with nobody it. we'll be right back.

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play their game this afternoon at cam sudden yard but no fans

will be in the seats to see it. it's the first major league game if history to be played without a paying crowd. the team announce it is move adding tear three-game series will now be played in florida instead of baltimore. the commissioner's office issue as statement saying in part quote, after conversations with orioles and local officials, we believe these decisions are in the best interests of fan safety and the deployment of city resources. >> mike barnacle mark halperin said this is actually a symbol of a broken city they shouldn't do it. do you agree? >> no i think they should play the game. i would have preferred. i understand the city resources thing, you need police details, i get that. but it would have been great if they stayed out of school one more day and had a bunch of kids fill in the stands. >> i like that idea. >> msnbc casey hunt joins us from camden yards in baltimore.

kasie. >> reporter: this is a team that loves this baseball team. if you have ever been in baltimore when they were playing here i was here for the playoff last year. it turns orange and black and to have this stadium stand empty is a really a symbol for this city and also in a broader sense, they have a stash coup of babe ruth here. he was born in baltimore. for baseball as a whole it's a difficult thing t. security here, they did postpone two games. some fans on the saturday fight game were trapped inside the stadium briefly while they said they were dealing with violence outside. they say this is the best solution. they also talked to nationals park or at least they considered moving the game to nationals park, but i think there are a lot of questions, what is this going to sound like. are they going play john denver's feather bed in the 7th inning stretch? the fans here normally would say o which drives everyone else in

baseball crazy but is a pretty tile honored tradition here in baltimore. i think it will be a stunning visual here later this afternoon. >> anld and pretty symbolic of where we are. msnbc's kasie hunt. thank you very much. >> this is the only game that needs to be laid this way. i think professional sports is a symbol of the success of a city. >> yeah. >> so hopefully, you know it gets beyond that. >> all right. mark halperin would you like to weigh into this? >> i can't believe they are playing the game like. this it is weird and freaky and not normal and what baltimore needs now is normal in pride. i think the league is doing it because they want the money. they don't want to disrupt the schedule. >> what money? they're not getting any. >> they don't want to disrupt the schedule and the travel you know. >> the game will still be on tv. >> who doesn't want the disruption? >> cynical.

>> i'm idealistic. baltimore loves the orioles. this is stupid. >> all right. coming up my car we have much more. >> orioles' general manager will join us on "morning joe" a bit later for an exclusive interview. >> he will arm wrestle halperin. >> you can take that. the must-read opinion pages are next including a lock at what is being described as baltimore's dual identity. it explains the city's unrest. we'll be right back. (music) boys? stop less. go more. the passat tdi clean diesel with up to 814 hwy miles per tank. just one reason volkswagen is the #1 selling diesel car brand in america. the new s6 hits the stores and i'm

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it's time for the must reads, baltimore deputy minority whip in the maryland house of delegates has been active in the protest since freddie gray's death and before this week's violence. also from walling, a columnist and associate editor of the washington post and msnbc political analyst, michael steel, still with us here. let me read this by tim swift of the bbc and open it up to our guests. baltimore's dual identity explains the unrest. why baltimore? to understand why you have to understand that baltimore is actually two cities. one is a city mired in decline and poverty made famous by the tv show "the wire" another is a

city on the water front with affluent residents to keep the affluent viable city official versus pursued a laser-like focus on crime ensureing it's up and coming neighborhoods stay safe. meanwhile in sprawling low income areas on the east and west side the police have been omni present. the success of the new baltimore has never touched many parts of the city most prominently the west side where this week's violence mulligan. take away the towering downtown the water front and other affluent enclaves and baltimore suddenly looks a lot leak ferguson, poor harassed and angry. i guess we'll start with the city delegate for baltimore. >> state delegate. >> keith what do you think? >> well, i think if you look at where resources have been for the government over the last decade the last three years, one of the big concerns that people in the communities who do not live downtown, do not live

near the inner harbor are expressing concern, have expressed concern that those same resources farce development and investment are not happening in their communities. baltimore city has a big challenge with have a can't housing, in many cases where you can be on one block, there could be 17 18 vacant homes and maybe one or two. >> sir, doesn't this back up with this tim swift is bringing up, there has not been a focus on the pockets of poverty, that they have been left behind while the water front has been built up and is shining and bright that there is something unfair and ferguson like about parts of baltimore. >> well, that is correct. and that is what is being expressed by many other residents in various communities, especially my district, which is the western part of baltimore city. and we need that same type of investment uptown as we're getting downtown. we looked at neighborhoods in

our communities. people have taken pride in those communities because over the years, they took pride in their home. they took pride in their communities. now we're not seeing that same type of investment. when you look at a struggling community with good people in it. it's hard for the younger generation to have that same pride that their parents or their grandparents had within they knew it back when it was a vibrant community. so that's what we have dealt with. the systemic system that we have to look at in addressing a better resource more resources, better investment in our neighborhoods and our communities. >> and equality. >> the underlying foundation of our community. >> so let me bring in jean robinson, for a slightly different take we go to your newspaper, an article mike barnacle point odd ut to me by michael fletcher to baltimore's collide and after math of violence, this is what michael writes, ball more is not

ferguson. and its primary prons are not racial. the major city council president, police chief, top prosecutor and many city leaders are black as are baltimore's police force t. city has many prominent churches extending back to frederick douglas, yet the gaping disparitys separating the haves and have nots in baltimore are as large as they are anywhere. this -- do you agree? this is not as much about race as it is the have and have nots? >> i certainly agree with michael fletcher, a great reporter who lived in baltimore for many many years. i believe it is not ferguson. it is different. one of the huge problems you saw in those visuals we had of baltimore, just now, as a delegate was speaking you saw all those abandoned houses those abandoned row houses. if you take a look at the sort of long arc of baltimore's

development or de-development you know this was a huge thriving city until the end of world war ii a real population center on the east coast, a thriving community with tons and tons of blue collar jobs. those jobs are gone and that housing is depopulated a and one of the huge problems of baltimore is the huge stock of abandoned crumbling housing that brings entire neighborhoods down and that's never been addressed in any systemic way. you see all around town. a lot of people were talking about justification. a lot of people were talking about just decay in the neighborhoods and right around the corner from that very busy intersection, you go two blocks away and i parked my car in front of a row of crumbling houses. that's a huge issue with ball more. ed indication a huge issue, and,

of course jobs they're not there. >> you talked about investment tax incentives to help the stadium and the water front, et cetera and decry the lack of investment in other parts in your district elsewhere. name names. be specific. don't talk about institutions. who in the last 30 years made those decisions and failed the model that you think should exist in investment in poorer neighborhoods? >> i'm sorry, could you repeat that again? i'm having a little trouble hearing you. >> who made the decision name names, in the water fronts tax breaks, other venlts rather than in your district? who made those decisions? >> well those decisions are made at the city level. it is a city issue and that is the purview of the city council. >> bhorp the key decision-makers -- who were the key decision-makers that decided to do that na imthe people. >> this is a time period.

this is something that has been going on the last year or last two years. but it's been going on for probably the last ten or 20 years. so those individuals who are in those positions at city council and at the mayor position those individuals have taken the initiative to offer those types of incentives to developers in the inner harbor and the water front. we are just asking that the same type of investment the same type of decision at this point going forward are made uptown in our communities. people deserve that. and that's what we feed. we need those same tools in our communities and that's what we need to focus on going forward. >> could i give just a quick example here in washington. narrion barry much maligned mayor for life of walk the late marion barry made a decision years and years ago to locate a

city municipal building in the heart of the riot-torn corridor of 14th and u streets, which was just a no-go zone when i came to washington. >> that decision actually helped catalogue the total redevelopment of that area which is now one of the thriving commercial and night life strips of the city and it maligned with million dollar contracts. >> state delegate hanes, thank you very much. up next, he has a message for those taking part in the looting and violent protests in baltimore. eline elijah cummins joins us when we come back. a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help.

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entire city after a quiet night. the night before not so quiet, protest, rioting, looting and burning down of buildings. today the city is trying to clean up, recover, but there will be a baseball came at camden yards with nobody in the stands. so a lot of work to do ahead. joining us democratic congressman elijah cummins of maryland. good to have you here. i know you have been out in the streets. steel has been hoping to get in on the conversation. michael, i'll let you take it from here. >> hey, congressman, good to see you. >> good morning. >> i really appreciate your presence and your word from the streets last night and over the last few days and as i want to sort of follow up on what we were just talking about, what actions are you prepared to take now in the wake of all that has happened here, working with the state and delegate the senate and delegate members who represent those affected areas of baltimore to redirect and

reprioritize resources so that that area can now begin its own renaissance beyond the ashes of the last two days? what actions are you prepared to help this leadership if baltimore move this city forward? >> well, first of all, it's good to be with you all. mike the first thing i'm going to, do we need to do and i've said this before is put a mirror up to ourselves to make sure we are listening to our children. we need more of a conclusion revolution. it's so important and, you know i think the first thing that we will do is try to physical out how to make sure that the limited resources that we do have are snentd a way that are most meaningful to our city and our young people. i think with barnacle the most thing that concerns people of this nature are jobs. jobs are very important. you know what mike you start with something before that that's education. so many of these children and

young people feel starved of a good education. i'm just basing that on what i have heard over and over and over again. many of them feel to some degree that like as if they're crippled. so i think we need to work with our new superintendent. he has only been on the job a few months. then we got to sit down and physical out how do we make sure that these children are properly educated so they can get the jobs within they come here? one of the first thing i did, by the way, yesterday, was called cvs drugs and i called rite aid. i called -11 stores affected the other night and harmed and said to those ceos, we will make hard to make sure we get you the kind of resources you need. we want to protect your businesses. why? i want to make sure we have jobs. i will also concentrate on education. we will continue to press on the national level to try to understand when cuts are made at

the federal level, they affect our communities like ours. >> congressman, i need you to educate me now. i want to ask you a question about a train ride and the train ride goes from washington, d.c. to new york city it goes right through baltimore. >> right. >> and i am looking out the window of that train when it stops in baltimore, it's may, fine 68 and i'm looking out the window may, 2015 why am i looking at the same burnt out block, the same busted buildings, the same sense of hopelessness on that right side of the train 50 40 years later? why am i doing that? >> well first of all, you see only a part -- and i'm concerned about that too. it takes money, first of all, a lot of people left to say they're now coming being. they left the city a. lot of landlords, the vacant houses you see is because in large part

maryland has strict lead paint lous. a lot of the landlords, people that owned those houses abandoned them. then it takes a lot of money, my friend to demolish those houses, but we're going to himco back. because there are other parts of the city unfortunately that you don't see on that train ride. i've done that train ride many times. we gtd to be about the business of trying to get the resources to do those things. somebody said it earlier on your shows while the recession everybody believes the recession is over. the fact still remains there are a lot of folks left behind. >> congressman elijah cummins, thank you very much. >> we appreciate you being here and appreciate your leadership. >> this is a 2016 issue. this isn't an inequality issue, sorry, we either want the government and the candidates involved in this conversation or they're leaving it to businesses. i can't address inequality. >> you really can. i want to clean something up yesterday, somebody wrote a snippy article about you commenting about seeing

baltimore from the acella corridor something like that. this person that wrote the snippy article i would dare say if they want to go toe to toe with you on the knowledge of baltimore, you would do that. you have been in baltimore. you seen all parts of baltimore. people in their basement eating cheeto's want to take a cheap shot. i will say i have long thought and i spent a long time in baltimore, not the amount you have always thought that train ride is i think it's actually great to expose people that go in the acella corridor and haven't been to part of the city. they get off the train, get in their car, go straight to camden yards, they have never seen that. i have always been glad it rips right through the heart of the most broken part of that city. >> yeah. yeah. well you know it's like cops. i mean the best cops get out of

the car. you know a city get out of your car. walk the city. >> know the people. >> walk a block. >>. it's hard. i know the students at john hopkins have programs they go out into the city. they were out there yesterday helping to clean up. okay, there is that tension, that inherently. >> there is a lot of good will. what i hope is there is a lot of discussion about how we got here, why we are here him i'm hopeful that there is going to be and going to encourage a discussion about what the future should be and what steps should be taken. i'd say to the presidential candidates all who are running, they all have to address it. it's about leadership. and what leadership does is response of the country's deepest and most challenging problems and says here is how we should address it. what i hope is that it's not going to turn from a news story of four five six, seven dis, two, three weeks, into indifference because we move on. a new cycle is generating. >> once they were talking about

detroit. we'll being a at detroit. we are talking about ferguson. these cities are crumbling. >> but america's cities are the crown jewel of the nation. >> let's have some new ideas. >> still ahead on "morning joe" maybe we'll get some. should they respond to the riots, why the philadelphia mayor is defending her and calling her a stnd-and-up leader. he joins us ahead. we'll be right back.

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we can't just leave this to the police. i think there are police departments that have to do some soul searching. i think there are some communities that have to do some soul searching, but i think we as a country, have to do some soul searching. this is not new. it's been going on for decades. >> coming up at the top of the hour baltimore's police commissioner says the city is stable and people are safe this morning after its worst riots in more than 40 years. we go back live to baltimore, which is calm this morning, but very much on edge. and the scenes from yesterday, residents coming together to reclaim the city. the children hitting the streets to do their part. also ahead, hillary clinton will soon have company in the democratic race for 2016. who is getting ready to run, even though he is not in the democratic party? we'll be right back. guess what: your insurance company will only give you 37-thousand to replace it.

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>> in totality i get reports we the fought have a lot of movement throughout the city as a whole the city is safe. the city is stable. we hope to maintain it that way. >> baltimore, morale, a day after riots and clashes with police caused physical injury property destruction and

residents worked to clean up their city the city wide curfew helped keep the calm. >> public schools will be opened, less than 48 hours after the city's worst rioting. the proest protest were related to the still unexplained death of 25-year-old freddie gray fatally injured while he was in police custody. >> last night fewer than a dozen arrests after police clashed with 200 people who tried to define the can you are few protesters threw glass bottles, those were isolated incident compared to monday evening as 2,000 national guardsmen and 1,000 had to be on hand to patrol the streets and for the most part peaceful last night. >> back with us we have mike barnacle mark halperin. michael steel and eugene robinson, there were bright spots a. lot of people came out to help we talked about the need

for new solution how recessions and recoveries have touched there's areas as much. this is a city though that's still defiantly pushed back yesterday. >> yeah. >> and i thibault more is a good example of how to fight back in terrible times. >> yesterday at the cvs store. we watched it go up in protests and looting. volunteers came together to help clean up the vandalism. >> i'm out here because i couldn't understand. getting comments what i said i'm in the doing anything by attacking it that way. i want the media to be a part of the solution. >> a lot of people behind you are volunteering here. what do you think about the crowd that's shown up here? >> this is beautiful. you know this is baltimore. this is the way you want the city represented. >> i hope and i pray that the

people protesting out here tonight continue to stay out here to see if it lead to something more. when the kids come back him we need to show them this is not what we stand for. this is not what we represent in baltimore we need to do more. these kids are lost and they need help. >> i don't want this to look like this i want this to look like it never burnt down. i want them to rebuild it so it can look the way it was. >> obviously, these are the faces of baltimore. the the 7-eleven and cvs, they look terrible. a family run business a million dollars in damage completely devastated. that es are tragic circumstances. circumstances. >> we saw terrible images two

nights ago. some may try to a mother who went after her only son to try to protect him. >> she publicly sold him for taking parts, it quickly went environment it's the cover story on the national post. forget the national guard, sen in the moms. toya graham realized her 16-year-old son was among those and why she reacted the way she did. >> lo and behold i look in this crowd my son is coming across the street with-hoody on and a mask. at that point i just lost it. he gave me eye contact and at that point not even thinking ability hammers orcameras or that. that's my only son. at the end of the day, i don't want him to be a freddie gray

but to stand up there and vandalize police officers. >> get over here now! >> that's not justice. i'm a single mom. i have six children and i just choose not to live like that anywhere. i don't want that for him. >> a lot of people were watching that fist pumping saying she was great, good for her. i felt bad for her. >> of course. >> you try to raise a kid in that situation. >> we raise children in the best of situations. he's a single mom with six kids it's what i said some time and goes back to the bigger problem with ball more. we as a nation seem to practice socialism with the biggest wall street banks i think we got this

all backwards. >> you know it's interesting here. on one hand you know are you torn you see her using violence. >> she is losing it. >> those of us who are parents understand how she felt and applaud her for stepping in and doing something about it. she's certainly, it's important she says look, i'm a single mom. i have several children, hoefrl i'm not going to see my son. i'm not going to stand by idle. i'm not going to watch my son. >> i think all of us around the table that have kids that age or older we smile with a knowing understanding but that we have all gone through really tough

times with our children imagine the challenges this mom has to fight like heck to keep her only son alive. >> when she looks at her son, he is only one thousands who live with the fear of the street. what's beyond that apartment door? is her 16-year-old son going to come back carrying? is he going to be packed as they say in the street. is he going to get a pistol or have a loaner gun? ask he going to get shot dead because he did join a gang or doesn't join a gang. >> gene take it away. >> it's what she lives with

every minute of every day, that's something that has to be on her mind. so i perfectly understand her reaction. she cease her son in the middle of this. it got this far. kit all go away if five minutes bomb, it can all go away. i didn't raise you like this. so she jacks him up. >> that boy still has a young city officials saying good for her to step up. great they will forget about her in ten minutes. >> the effort to say what you saw represents what our city is even tow we know we have deeper

challenging problems and see i'm hopeful. i want to say this no one would want to change places with stephanie rollins blake. it's tough to respond to a crisis and maybe out of the block she was a little slow. i think yesterday she brought together i saw a press event where she brought together citizens across the city. it is tough to lead the city in a crisis. >> joining us mayor michael nuter. i understand you feel the same way about baltimore. do you think her leadership is up to the task at this point? >> first i want to commend the mom we saw. i have been on the other side of the head pops and i survived him i'm sure mark did as well. she wasn't thinking ability

cameras, as she said. shelves doing what she felt she needed to do her son will be fine he learned a big lesson on the national stage. with regard to monday. certainly what we saw was a at their worst. yesterday we saw the majority at tear best taking back their community community. i think many were surprised what they were doing on monday t. mayor, i know mark knows and i know very very well. a great leader very decisive a measured approach how to deal with high school teenagers, i think again as i've said on other interviews i think we have to keep in context who is out there. these are high school students coming out of school and acting in a quite unpredictable manner as compared to the peaceful protests that had been going on and so the baltimore police

their resources, she obviously worked with the governor. i don't know that any of us would be having this kind of conversation if the city had the national guard against high school students. obviously, the city took a significant turn for the worse. . they did what they node to do. but there will be enough time for after action operations or analysis with that particular mom and her son. let's talk about the resources needed to make sure that young man has something to do in the after school hours and the many programs that baltimore has and it would be hypocritical to talk about the challenges, in many cities a i kros the united states don't have jobs this summer.

as the congress fights with the president whether or not to fund these programs. let's talk about how the community center for the seniors, where the new funding comes from to finish what was already started and the people who are now out of work working on that before it moves down. asking them to come in and look at excessive force. that's leadership. the city has certainly calmed down. i am sure there will be concerns over the next few day, i think there is a mistake with regard to a game being played with no fans. it's an insult to the baltimore fans down there. that's a decision that should be reversed. let's move forward with the city and the citizens we saw the best of baltimore. they will do what they need to do. the question is what will we do as a nation to help the

baltimores, help the philadelphias, help the new yorks and other cities across the united states of america. >> all right. thank you. thank you, so much. >> i feel these mayors with all respect mayor nuter have to decide what they will do to solve it on the ground waiting for i think i not the way to go. >> gene robinson i always thought because you have pockets to spare it's so telling, yet, five, ten minutes away you had

kids that couldn't get into good schools. >> absolutely. that was certainly true here in washington sort of the suburbanization of the worst kind of poverty. that's a different issue. we can talk about on a different morning. one thing i think you can do in baltimore we can start with what we can do. one of the things is mars baltimore is this huge stock of abandoned housing, in detroit, which had a similar this huge

stock of have a can't housing is decay and rot we can knock buildings down and turn that into park space. >> i think we do know how to fix schools. it doesn't fit into the idea ol of certain people i do think when you knock down these dilapidated buildings and put urban green space there, you then have what is happening in the core of detroit that we have seen and that is they almost have when we go there we hear there, as far as vacancy as far as those buildings downtown. they have rebuilt the core of detroit and are growing it out right now. so knocking down all the dilapidated buildings does pay off. >> i would say this and i want to, what cities need with the

federal government is a partnership. this is what gets me. we are rebuilding city we are rebuilding kandahar. we are spending money to rebuild cities abroad. the reason why this is a national issue is it's a question of what our priorities are as a country. so we need a partnership. >> think about this. to that point. we have been saying it here since 2009 since we decided as a country to triple down in afghanistan. we have been spending $2 billion a week in afghanistan, while our schools crumble. while our infrastructure crumbles, while we cut back on r&d and cut back on the very investment that would make a difference here. it's insanity. >> we have to get to -- >> joe i'm right there with you, it's a question of prior priority, it's a question of values. >> michael, jump in real quick. >> to mark's point, he's the

mayor, i'm a lt. gov. i appreciate everybody talking about the federal government's role here. the next can sandy boat load of cash to the states. at the end of the day, it's the relationship between the relationship between the state and the county and the cities. that's the bottom line. that's how you move the money. oftentimes those federal dollars comes in the doors and they get locked in at a certain point at the state level and they do not reach their way down to cities like baltimore. that was a part of the struggle that i know i encountered in working as lt. gov. i know that's the struggles that i hear from county executives and the mayor of baltimore. so there has to be mark hit the point, priority about how you are going to prioritize education funding within the state. how are you going to prioritize knocking down those buildings and rezoning so that you can get the development that you need. >> let's go to peter alexander live in baltimore, following the personal stories here the people left hanging in the wake of this quite frankly national tragedy. local business owners who are

left with nothing after their businesses have been looted and destroyed. peter, what can you tell us? >> well, mica we know that two atf teams are actually en route in this direction arriving overnight to help investigate more than 140 car fires, 15 properties that were burned. but the damage wasn't exclusive ly biy flames there were other businesses looted. where family built up they lost over the course of decades. here's one family's story, it's crushing. for more than eight hours, the levy family helplessly watched their under surveillance cameras from home as looters gutted the store they owned for more than 25 years. >> they were coming in cleaning us totally. >> reporter: this mass is all that's left. they want to rebuild. where do you begin? >> it's sad. my heart is breaking it's breaking for baltimore, for all the store owners. it's breaking for us.

>> mother of three teresa joyce workled here for 25 years and is out of a job. >> to walk in to see this store apart, it ripped me to shreds. it's sad. >> reporter: as you heard doreen le just say there her brothers have owned and operated this place for 35 years. she says her heart breaks for baltimore. it breaks for us. and the challenge for this family is what they do now. more than a million dollars in losses. they certainly want to rebuild. they say they will be fine the problem is the seven or eight employees who have worked for them for years members of the community fear those people may be out of work for a long time. back to you. >> i kind of can't help myself. peter, can you follow up and find out if there is anything put in place to help that family rebuild? >> we'll do that for sure. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," he delivered the you'll at freddie

gray's funeral hours before the riots. >> amazing. >> baltimore searches for peace amid the protests. we will also go live to kathmandu where the search for survivors becomes more grim with every passing hour and later, imagine washington with a female president, a female vice president and a female secretary of defence. nicole wallace takes us inside her new best selling novel "madam president." you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you should just give them to us since we're going to be here anyway it's kind of a no brainer appears buster's been busy. yeah, scott. i was about to use the uh. i've got a much better idea, lad! scotts ez seed uses the finest seed, fertilizer and natural mulch so you can grow grass anywhere! thanks, scott. ez seed really works! get scotts ez seed. it's guaranteed. keeping a billion customers a year flying means keeping seven billion transactions flowing.

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>> we will continue to nepal after saturday's deadly earthquake. miguelal 345 gear filed this report on the rescue efforts. >> reporter: we are 45 minutes east outside of kathmandu in a small community that was really hit hard by this massive 7.8 earthquake. this is the area where the fairfax county search and rescue teams, a crew from virginia has come to look for survivors. they have picked this spot for a

reason. this area was highly packed with thousands of people. many of the homes in these apartment complexes are five stories high. they are built primarily of brick and wood. as you can see, folks are digging for survivors. for several days they say they can hear people calling for help here. they can hear them banging on any kind of wood or brick they could find. so crews have picked this area because they believe there the a possibility there are survivors here. crews say they'll be out hire over the next several days. they're fairly optimistic with the help of locals they'll be able to find anyone who may have survived is this earthquake. as you know in haiti, they say they found folks up to a week after. so later on today, they'll be out here and a crew of 11 also with their search teams and dogs looking for any sense, any possibility that folks have survived this earthquake. today at this hour you will see the locals out here doing what they can to try to clear debris to look for neighbors, to look

for friends and family still trapped here. they believe hundreds of people may be buried in this one community alone. crews have a lot of work ahead of them. >> and miguel joins us live now from kathmandu. miguel my god, the aerials that you were showing us in your report show the scope of this it looks almost insurmountable. what are they saying about the death toll at this point? who is helping and is there enough help? >> reporter: mica good morning t. death toll still stands at around 5,000 out here. it's certainly going to rise over the next several days today we know bodies were recovered and the outlying areas, help has been difficult to reach. we know the death toll out there will rise as well. again, we have reported before that the death toll could rise to as high as 10,000. when you see the debris what we saw here today, you can certainly understand why many of

these debris fields are two to three stories high that,ry compacted with brick after brick and there are certainly bodies beneath all of that rebel. it will be a long time before they are able recover all of the bodies here mica. >> nbc's miguel almaguer in nepal. thank you very much. coming up is it elizabeth warren, jim webb martin o'malley the person now ready to challenge hillary clinton for the democratic nomination in 2016? that and much more when "morning joe" comes back.

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>> i said before you got 43 44 democratic senators you got almost 20 democratic governors. you got thousands of democratically elected officials across america to run. i'm not going to show that yet to run against hillary clinton. so kwlo is the one democrat? because they knew there would be a democrat who is the one democrat that is going to step in and make sure she doesn't run in the post?

>> independent vermont senator bernie sanders. >> independent. >> is going to announce his democratic nomination according to a source. >> an independent will run. >> he won't need to change parties. parties. they will release a statement tomorrow and a kickoff day in vermont him joining us and co-host of "the view" nicole walsh. author of the new novel "madam president," which is topping usa today. in walk nbc news political 340d rater of "meet the press" chuck todd, you are making a good point. is there anybody? >> and chuck we have one story after another whether you are talking about the "new york times" or the new york post or washington post, whatever there is a drip drip drip that is

coming forward that will continue non-stop because of the $150 million the clintons made the lines that they blurred, if they didn't completely cross. and people will start looking like they did yesterday. wait a second donald gets thrown in the jail for a roll exwatch and a dietary supplement at the governor's mansion, yet you got some huge money moving around in deals that could be just as i would say, you know, possibly linked. again, i'm not accusing the clintons of anything. i'm saying with that drip drip, drip with eno is going out there. because there is such a mass amount of money, why don't more democrats do what bill clinton did in 1992 and step forward and take a chance? >> well and, you know, joe, eight years ago, when these same questions were popping up democrats weren't giving blind

quotes to reporters talking about how nervous, they're getting nervous about this, they're hand wingingringing. think think you are right, if democrats were viewed as more viable or viable potential nominees, i think you would see this litigated more publicly. >> but who, there has to be a democrat out there that can step forward. >> reporter: i think there are plenty that good. you start looking at you know you can look at any of the two virginia senators who were former governors. i'm surprised neither one of these would jump into this. michael bennett, you got women senators, so i think there is plenty of candidates that if hillary weren't running, we would be talking about. i am surprised one of two of

them haven't zoilded to at least flirt with a bit and maybe play the role of bill bradley. you know everybody is wondering about joe biden or elizabeth warren a lot of democrats stepped aside and let al gore have a straight shot at this in '99, then bradley decide well i'll be there just in case. guess who, for a couple of months, he seemed very competitive. >> i think biden is not out of the hurdle. nicole wallace, isn't the answer there with is no one more qualified on the democratic side who could win? >> it could be if she loses, i think a lot of people will differ with that assessment of the landscape. i think they have been on the landscape so long. i think what's interesting the media played a role you described an upcoming democrat could play. eighth die naming i haven't seen on the democratic side in my political career. so she's running agree would not, we traded over the weekend

whether you would trade jeb bush's headlines for hillary clinton's headlines, i would not. i think you'd rather be a front runner in a very crowded field without decisively than a front runner in an empty field. i think it's a terrible way to start. if she loses, the general election, a lot of democrats will wish they had jumped in right now. >> everybody said the clintons always put these things behind them. there is never any there, there. this is the argument many make. so who would be more qualified just on the basis of resume jeb bush or hillary clinton? >> well listen for someone that shares my political ideology. >> i'm not talking about ideology. >> do you think obama has been a good president? >> that's not my question i'm asking. >> democrats ask about qualification, nobody cared at all when a bowl was running, i can't take that seriously. she prepared for national office. >> you can take what i'm saying seriously because qualifications actually are important there

they're important now but they weren't when obama ran? >> no it's deflect, nicole. >> it's the truth. i said it non-stop every day. you are going to elect a guy -- we're telling the truth. [ multiple people talking ] >> he'll be fine at 3:00 a.m. now, she's so qualified. it's a fine argument. maybe she'll be nominated. >> it's not an argument and it's not something i decided today. it is pertinent to her story. >> that's the story she'll tell. >> no, no no actually it's a reality. she served as secretary of state. she served as senator twice. >> so. >> she was first lady. >> so. >> so -- >> jeb bush wait jeb bush did -- >> nicole i'm talking to you. >> mica jeb bush didn't fall off a turnup truck last night

and said i think i'll run for president. jeb is extraordinarily qualified. >> hillary clinton is qualified to be president, sure. >> that's all i was saying. you started the attack. >> you are the one who is attacking. >> no, i'm just asking a question. on paper, resume wise the first question that launched into this explosion was who on paper is more qualified? >> sure. >> that was the answer i was looking for. >> we know the voters don't care as much about that -- >> you could have the debate on whether she is more qualified or no. i would personally take a governor that's run one of the largest states in america over somebody that has done what she has done. >> that's a great answer too. >> and, quite frankly, looking at how she and her husband used their time when she was secretary of state i think that calls in some extraordinarily important questions. chuck todd would you like to weigh in on qualifications?

>> look i think you've got to look at the executive experience, you'd say jeb bush. if you want to look at it when itco himself to particularly on foreign policy you would say hillary clinton. so, you know i think it really is the eye of the beholder thing. i think they're both highly qualified. i think the biggest problem both have if it was hillary smith and jeff jones, i think people would say, these are the two most qualified people. i think jeb would be farther ahead. io eng he's ahead at all. i think jeb would be ahead if it wasn't for his last name and i think hillary clinton would be perhaps, you know there wouldn't be as much handringing wringing. will they get bogged down in the future? >> i think hillary clinton is

the worry she's shade di. it's not her last name it's they might be shady. >> i want to ask you, chuck, mica said something about the clintons. i always have these things pop up. it always goes away. do you think that's going to happen with the serve and with all of this money? do you think it's going to be another one of these things with james car ver two years from now, yeah seriously, she was caught with $800,000 in her pocket. it happened with the serve. is this going to be another litany of things james carvel will be talking about three years from now? is this another clinton scandal they survive? >> it might. what does history show? i think it's having an impact on her sort of atmospheric ally. meaning, look at her numbers on honest and trust worthiness. and i think, look bill clinton was below george h.w. bush on that question in 1992 and it

didn't matter he won anyway. i remember this distinctly. people were like geeze, he's lower on the honest and trust worthiness and here he is winning the election. i think in this environment where there is so much distrust in washington. a lot will depend on who the republicans put up against her. i think the impact of these stories on the atmospherics surround her and honest and trust worthiness and politics in the past. that's where this has a huge impact regardless of the allegations. >> i wonder why there aren't other democrats. that's why i thought it was the assumption she will win. >> the money. >> and the money hein it all and also look i think her qualifications are clearly there. at the same time i will say i'm sorry you can have both questions about this. i think there are lots of questions about the money the quote shady dealings. there are no answers, i would like to hear from the white

house, were these approved? what was the deal they cut and was it abided by? if they did know about some of this money that was received by bill clinton, the clinton foundation and if they had known about it if the clinton had reported and if it's true they didn't actually follow the regulations and the deal that they cut with the state department would the white house have said no? >> she's lucky you are not a u.s. attorney. >> i don't want to hear from peter swoitser. i don't want to hear from people raising issues. i want to hear from the white house and the state department as to what went down and if nothing went down you all can move on but we're asking the wrong people the book raises questions. let's get the answers to that question. >> that is the question. we are way over right now, chuck. but at the white house, we'll say one thing off the record people in the white house about how might havedffed they are the clintons play by their own rules, yeah the white house says that you know they do. >> i'm not hearing it. >> they always talk and how

miffed they are the clintons play by their own roechls you get them on the record, they don't talk about the scrub servers, the e-mails or the deals they didn't approve with the white house. they didn't talk about what valerie jarrett and i forget who else inside the white house did this deal that they ignored within they wanted to ignore it. i wonder when is the white house going to step up and say on the record what they say off the record? >> is this burden on the white house and not on the clintons? >> they're the ones that did the -- you know right now. >> sure they had a question, you had a deal with your secretary of state. >> they never made a speech and would not receive money. he's the investor of sweden. >> she's the secretary of state. i don't get it. i would like to know. i would like to ask the white house, what happened here? i think they're a part of it

chuck. >> well, i mean look to me though that's the part that's more damming on the clintons. this is where i shake my head and don't understand why the clintons continue to take foreign money. clearly the white house was concerned enough that they felt that they had to put something in writing. now i agree with you, let's get it all out there on that front. but to me this is a reminder of like the white house knew this look back why in god's earth is the clinton foundation taking foreign donations? it boggles the mind. >> i was laughing before and the answer to the question we have to ask the white house. alex has been trained and said we whether go to break. anyway we got to go to break. chuck todd, thank you. stay with us. we'll be right back.

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you mighty people accomplish what you will. this is not a time for us as a people to be sitting on the corner drinking malt liquor. this is not the time for us to be playing lottery or to be at the horseshoe casino. this is not the time for us to be walking around with our pants hanging down past our behind. this is not the time for us to have no respect for our legacy and for our history. this is not the time for tattoos all over your next. lift up your head all ye and be he lifted up that the king of glory shall come here. >> that was reverend jamal bryant, a pastor of empowerment temple ame in baltimore delivering a eulogy at freddie gray's funeral. reverend, good to have you this morning. >> reverend, we were all moved by that extraordinary eulogy you

gave a couple days ago. we were also moved by what we saw in baltimore yesterday. talk about how your city took back the streets. >> this is a classic case of a phoenix rising from the ashes. i wish you could have seen so much took place historically yesterday. people came out in droves volunteering to clean up the streets. there was a peace treaty between two rivaling gangs of the muslim and the christian community came together. last night we brought 500 leaders of faith together 2,000 people converged at my church to do a town hall meeting to talk about not just being angry but talking about developing stravenlt i'm excited becausestrategy. i'm excited. we are turning the page. >> it's so good to see you. thank you for your voice at this time in the city. the message we led into the segment that we showed at your words at that funeral.

that's a message of empowerment that you have brought to the city when you first opened and started your ministry at empowerment temple. how is that resonating now in this new atmosphere that has been created in light of the frustrations that the community has? is it really beginning to take hold, do you think? is there a root there that will grow and help move the city and put pressure on the political leadership, which you have been steadfast reminding them of their responsibilities to help the poor to help those who are addicted. how is that message going to carry forward going after this period right now? >> one of the great abolitionists, frederick douglass, said "power concedes nothing without a demand." it's not just what we're demanding of the government but ourselves. yesterday, michael, the schools were closed in baltimore so i opened up our sanctuary for high schoolers so they could get practical training on how to do appropriate social action demonstrations and then much to

their amazement, i took them the street and made them clean up where it is that the rioting and the looting had taken place. so this is not the city's responsibility, this is our community. and we've got to learn how to take care of it. it's amazing, all of you over there in the studio if you've ever rented a car, you'll notice no time when you rented a car did you ever take a rental car to the car wash. why? because you didn't feel like it was yours. as a consequence, so many people in public housing don't feel like that's theirs. so we have to do something in terms of homeownership, in terms of economic development and small businesses thriving. this is a complete overhaul for the city of baltimore. not just for that one issue but all the way around. >> reverend jamal bryant thank you so much. thank you for being on the show this morning. >> thank you. it was my pleasure. still ahead, the next president of the united states has blond hair is a woman, and her husband has had an affair

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okay nicolle wallace. tell us about "madam president," your book. is it out today? >> it's about a fickal female president made up in my imagination, she's a moderate

republican, a lot of people think she's a moderate anything is the bigger fantasy than her gender. but she governs on what is the most harrowing day you can imagine, a day of five domestic terrorist attacks on the country and the story is entirely fictional. the president is a fictional female but i drew on notebooks and details from my time on 9/11 in the white house. >> and i love -- her other books have had similar themes and i just want to know is there a female dog, a pitchbitch named mika in it. >> there's still a vizsla named mika. >> what is that? >> no mess with success. >> you scream at her. >> are you coming to "know your value" in washington? >> yes. >> we'll get along. thank you so much. the book is "madam president," nicole waltzle wallace, thank you very much. last night there were less than

a diseasen en a dozen arrests in baltimore. plus, a mother publicly scolds her son for taking part in the riots. no she's explaining what happened in that moment gone viral. also, just hours away from the baltimore orioles play a historic game before an empty stadium. "morning joe's" exclusive interview with the team's executive vice president dan duquette. and it's the first time in 15 years the fbi let a national news team shoot inside a federal prison. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin's new documentary on the life on the inside for white collar convicts. we'll be right back.

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baltimore, maryland, was a much quieter city last night, a day after riots and clashes with police caused physical injury property destruction and 250 arrests. residents worked together to clean up and reclaim their city and a city wide curfew that was in effect overnight helped keep the calm. >> public schools will be open today, less than 48 hours after the city's worst rioting since 1968. the protests were related, of course, to the still-unexplained death of 25-year-old freddie gray who was fatally injured while in police custody. we're going to have the very latest on where that investigation stands just ahead. last night, fewer than a dozen arrests were reported after police clashed with about 200 people who tried defying the 10:00 p.m. curfew. officers used pepper balls and smoke canisters as the protesters threw glass bottles. >> but those were really mika just isolated incidents compared to monday evening as 2,000

national guardsmen and 1,000 officers were on hand to patrol those streets overnight. >> it was a much better night relatively. >> much better night. the people of baltimore have risen to the occasion. there were so many great stories yesterday of people going out, standing arm in arm and backing people away from police lines and saying "not tonight." >> yesterday at the cvs store which went up in flames during the protests and looting, volunteers came together to help clean up the vandalism. >> i'm out here because i couldn't stand what i saw yesterday and i wanted to be a part of the solution. i was on social media giving comment, responding to people and i said "i'm not doing anything by attacking it that way." i wanted to be a part of solutions. >> reporter: a lot of people behind you are volunteering here. what do you think about this crowd that's shown up here? >> this is beautiful. this is baltimore. this is the way we want our city represented. >> i hope and pray that the peaceful protesters that are out here tonight continue to stay out here to see if it escalates

into something more because if these kids come back we need to be out here to show them that this is not what we stand for. we do not -- this is not what we represent as baltimore and we need to just do so much more. these kids are lost and they need some help. >> some of the 85,000 children who were not in school due to a city wide public school closure also hit the streets to do their part. >> i didn't want all of this to look a mess and i want to this to look like it never burned down and i want them to rebuild it so it can look the way it was. >> that's -- you know, we get accused of only focusing on one city block and there was a lot of good happening yes. there's clearly questions about leadership and questions about a tale of two cities in baltimore that has happened over the past several decades where you have this waterfront which is booming and beautiful and safe and then other parts of the city that have been left to just fall

apart on their own, leaving people in this situation. >> but, again, yesterday, though, i think we really did see that what happened two days ago in baltimore was isolated. the anger, widespread for every reason in the world. but as far as people acting out the way they acted out two nights ago as president obama talked about thugs and criminals or whatever that was isolated. mike, we even saw yesterday some moms taking the streets back, taking their sons back and saying, hey, enough. this is very very positive very, very hopeful and let me just say, i think what happened yesterday in baltimore is a model for other cities to follow. we've talked badly about baltimore, i mean we -- but yesterday, what a great example of how a city rises to the occasion. >> well, the video clip the mother in yellow as she's now

called, toya graham chasing michael, 16 years of age, down the street in baltimore. she saw him on tv throwing rocks at the police she raced out of her home she found him on the street and we all saw what happened in the video that's been seen by millions of people around the world. and when asked about her son michael, 16 years of age, she said "is he a perfect boy? no. but he's my boy." >> amen. >> and that is i think, exhibit a -- >> tough love. >> for parents in situations like this. and also what the president said yesterday was so true mark. i don't know what you thought about it when he said about baltimore, what we're seeing in baltimore, what we've seen for the past two days out of baltimore, this is nothing new. >> it's nothing new. it's a bigger issue. what we've seen is a flash point and the uneven development, the tale of two cities the high poverty. and i'm struck because we looked at this and i was here just a month or so ago talking about

the idea that the economy has come back but there's still very high unemployment. and what happens is police/community tension become flash points for bigger problems. but i want to say this there is an element today, we saw in the new york we saw in the ferguson we've seen it in baltimore, of people who infiltrate peaceful protests to cause problems. what we saw, obviously, that you all have mentioned, is a pushback against that in baltimore. but this is a continuing story. tomorrow there's going to be a preliminary investigation, a report by the police to the prosecutor. so this is ongoing. but i hope and, you know the urban league in baltimore and nationally wants to be a part of an effort to focus attention on the long-standing problems in that city. >> so mike barnicle brought up the mother. this is her, again, a quick

soundbite with her and then i have something to say. >> love and behold i turn around and i look in this crowd and my son is coming across the street with this hoodie on and a mask. at that point i just lost it. and he gave me eye contact and at that point not even thinking about cameras or anything like that. that's my only son and at the end of the day, i don't want him to be a freddie gray. but to stand up there and vandalize police officers -- >> get over here now! >> that's not justice. that's not what -- i'm a single mom, i have six children and i just choose not to live like that no more and i don't want that for him. >> so -- i like that we started the show with the positive developments. having said that just to sort of counter and bring in the reality, this is a city joe,

that cannot have a baseball game today. which is -- >> well they're going to have a game but no fans. >> no crowd. that's fairly unprecedented. that is a sign that they can't accommodate a normal american tradition. >> well, i think, actually, major league baseball is bending over backwards, they're doing what needs to be den to keep the city safe. i think everybody has, after the first night, the slow response by the mayor in baltimore, i think everybody has come together and they're doing this much better. i will say, though as i said before, this is a city that has every reason to be angry everybody talks about we debate was the economic expansion of the 80s better than the economic expansion of the '90s? how does the recovery from the wall street crash in 2008 compare to past recovers.

these are all conversations that are irrelevant in the part of baltimore that be burned a couple nights ago because michael still -- there -- there has been no recovery in the '80s. there is no recovery now this is a city that unfortunately america has forgotten like so many other cities. parts of this city that just has been hopeless for 50 years. >> baltimore is an example, joe of the adage about a rising tide lifting all boats. well in baltimore the problem is you don't have a boat so when the tide of prosperity comes in after the periods of recovery that you refer to that community is largely left behind this had been systemic, it has been on going. it's the failure of leadership and the business community that doesn't invest and take the risks they should take so

hopefully in this moment folks will realize the opportunities. there cease many voices that have risen in this over the last 24 to 48 hours that can lead this city forward. the question is whether or not they were ready to put in place working with the urban league working with community organizers working with those folks who are on the ground and living there as well as those who are going to be invited to come in to help them build the boat so the tide of prosperity can lift them in baltimore to a new height. >> the protests may have subsided overnight in baltimore but the violence and looting promises to have long-lasting effects for businesses in the area area. joining us live from baltimore, nbc's peter alexander. peter, you have an incredible story of one with business which is one of many but you've also been hearing from residentsen the ground. how are they responding? >> well you saw some of the responses at the top of the show mika people picking up brooms, not bricks in part of this city.

monday's violence as one long time baltimorean described it was the result of a combustible mix of poverty, crime, and hopelessness and unfortunately a lot of families will live with the consequences of what happened monday night and the losses they experienced are crushing. take a look. for more than eight hours, the levy family helplessly watched their store's surveillance cameras from home as looters gutted the sports mart they've owned for 35 years. >> they were coming in just cleaning us out, totally. >> reporter: this mess is all that's left. they want to rebuild but where do you begin? >> it's sad. my heart is breaking. my heart is breaking for baltimore, it's breaking for all the stoners and for us. >> reporter: mother of three, tracy joyce, worked here for five years and she's now out of a job. >> to walk in and see this tore apart just ripped me to shreds. it's sad. >> reporter: you can see how emotional she was. we appreciate her spending time with us. as we said she is the mother of

three and this just wasn't a family business owned by the levies, it was a business that benefitted her and her family as well. she says they too, will be among those devastated by what took place here. so many students are going to begin, 85,000 students going back to school today. the ceo of baltimore's public schools said what he saw on monday night, these initial confrontations by some high school students from here in baltimore, he called them inexcusable but he called what we're witnessing in this city a call to action for adults to provide better for the young people across this community. mika, back to you. >> nbc's peter alexander, thank you. those families watched on security videos at their home as rioters ripped that place apart. it's torn to shreds. >> devastating. we see this in baltimore, we saw it in ferguson and we've seen it unfortunately in too many places and mark halperin we talk about police brutality,

there is police brutality. we talk about excess and there certainly is excess in a lot of these communities. but the "daily news" talks about america's crisis. there's another story and this is a permanent underclass in america that all the social engineering from one politico after another making one promise after another, it has failed and it's failed miserably over the past 50 years. >> and the onus i think, is on those who want to continue doing what's been done and just try more of it rather than new things. it's a great city. it's one of america's great cities, and they love the orioles there and the fact that they can't play a game as mika said, it's symbolic and horrible. but you go less than a mile from the waterfront where the stadium is and that development and it's no economic opportunity, no educational opportunity, fraught relationships with law enforcement. again, those who would liking to continue the policies of the

previous mayors have to ask and have to explain why is it going to work? >> i'm going to push back on you and the reason why i'm going to push back on you is because the mayor can't fix the problem alone. it's state government it's federal government -- >> we're not talking about this mayor or right now. >> we're talking about -- >> let me make my point. >> don't talk about this mayor. >> i said "mayors," joe. let me make my point. i want to make my point. >> you said that 12 times, make your point. >> this is a very important point. not for this to turn into just a simple blame game. the last 50 years -- and i'll tell you what's happened. there was a tarp to bail out the banks. there was a trillion dollar tarp to bail out the banks. there was no main street problem. this problem has worsened in the recession in the post-recession america. i've been on this show and i've been in the media for the last five years.

i've spent 30 years working in cities. 30 years working in cities and in the last five years as we've reported on high unemployment, on increasing poverty, in the recovery mike, the recovery people have said, wow, that's fantastic. but where is the initiative to respond to this? i'm going to agree with you that we need to do some new things. but one of the problems is that we never followed through on commitments. >> can i ask you? i don't understand. i think we all agree here. i don't understand the pushback. that's what's confusing me. >> the pushback is on the idea that we've had -- >> you do agree there are pockets, again, show again, there are pockets of poverty in america that hasn't gotten better over the past years. >> you're missing my point. my point is -- >> we agree, right? >> we agree on pockets of poverty, on the nature of the crisis. i'm quoting in the "daily news,"

that's my quote that america is in crisis. but i think the issue is is how do you move forward? and what i'm going to say is that -- and i push back, because i was a mayor and i had limited ability and limited power. you need the help of state governments, you need the help of federal governments. why is it in baltimore that there was rightfully so tremendous tax incentives public investment to build the waterfront to build the stadiums. where were the tax incentives and the public investment to rebuild the neighborhoods that are in trouble? >> but they did that. >> hold on a second. again, mr. mayor, we agree with you. we're not talking about mayors. we're talking about federal government, the state government. we're talking about how america has to look at this permanent underclass. >> we agree on that. >> michael steele -- and this is what -- again, that's what i was -- i didn't understand what we were disagreeing about. >> right exactly. >> because we're saying the same

thing here. there's a permanent underclass. republicans think, oh, if we just give everybody tax credits everything will be great. democrats think, oh if we just start a new federal program, everything's going to be great. i call that trickle down liberalism. trickle down liberalism where we count on the government to do everything doesn't work. trickle down conservatism where we just cut taxes for big businesses doesn't work. we need to look at this permanent underclass michael steele. you tried to do it yourself and we need to think anew. >> i understand what mark is saying but you know serving as lieutenant governor of the state from 2003 to 2007 and watching and being a part of the initial redevelopment of baltimore particularly in eastern baltimore, one of the questions i ask, and this goes to your very point about the permanent underclass: when we finally get the notion we're going to help people and we're going to create that tide of prosperity, not

everyone has the boat that rises with it. so when you regentrify a community, what is the plan to make sure that are the grandmother and grandfather that have been there for 40 50 years gets to stay in their home? gets to keep that ownership? so the next generation has an investment that they can then build upon. that's not part of the equation. so you're absolutely right, joe. there's so many more pieces that are left off the table and everybody sort of looks at the sort of trickle-down idea well if we give them more tax incentives. okay, great, where are you putting those incentives? are you putting them a place where people actually live and where businesses can come in and invest and people can keep their homes or are you going to sweep the slate clean and push them out? >> mike? >> let me ask, if i can, the three men here obama this said one of them in washington, all three have served in public office. let me ask you the question. how many people did you serve with who know one fundamental

thing -- how hard it is to be poor in the united states of america? that the most important social program you could pass in any legislature, in louisiana, in maryland, in florida or in the country, that the most important social program is spelled j-o-b. and how many people did you serve with know how hard it is to take like six bus rides to get to a job that might be 15 miles from your home. >> that pays so little you can't even live. >> how many people did you serve with who know that you live on a block where you're the only -- filled with single parents or no-parent households. how many know that the school that a kid goes to, a 16-year-old, is probably not as good as the school in chevy chase or baton rouge or tallahasse. how many of the people you serve with know this?

>> i think for me it was a mixed bag. some sensed it some felt it some didn't and i had a chance to serve in the 1990s and in the 1990s, many cities saw declining unemployment, they saw declining crime and poverty rates so i wouldn't paint with a blanket but i think that -- what i say, mike, is that the context of today, and it's very important to think. we've come out of a recession. how do we move forward today? >> i tell you one thing, we saw the store in peter alexander's piece, the cvs, those jobs won't come back for three, four five years. >> that mother is swimming upstream. >> what what i've been saying 20 years, everybody has a lobbyist in washington, d.c. everybody has a lobbyist but the poor. that's why banks get trillion

dollar bailouts. they screw up the economy, they make unbelievably risky bets which actually pray on some of the poorest and most disadvantaged. then they'll get bailed out and get to reinvest their trillions of dollars, they get to make even more money and the poor don't have lobbyists. what do we do, mike? >> you know what the poor expect? the poor like many american voters, expect that their representatives that they vote for are going to be their primary advocates and you're making a commentary on a system in america where a lot of voters push back to the idea why do i need a professional i have you? will you go fight for me? that's the reality. so what you see -- i'm sensing this. it strikes me that a lot of the reaction you also see is people losing faith in traditional politics in elected officials and the fact that elected officials are going to be

responsive beyond the cameras to a crisis of this magnitude. >> at the end of the day for me of all the things i've seen mika, of all the things i've seen that can make a dent in the community and bring hope to the hopeless is real education reform. i've just -- we've seen in the pockets here. we have got to invest in education. we've got to invest wisely and we have got to do away with a system that keeps a lot of these kids trapped in the worst parts of these cities. >> we saw that bear out. ahead this hour, the latest on the investigation into freddie gray's death. jayne miller a baltimore journalist for 30 years, brings us her latest reporting on this. you're watching "morning joe." or you alert the second his room is ready. so he knows exactly when he can check in and power up before his big meeting. and when alan gets all powered up, ya know what happens? i think the numbers speak for themselves.

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the baltimore orioles will play their game against the white sox this afternoon at camden yards but no fans will be in the stands to see it. it's the first major league baseball game in history to be played without a paying crowd. the team announced the move in this press released aing that their three game series against the tampa bay rayies will be played in florida rather than baltimore. they said "we believe that these decisions are in the best interests of fan safety and the deployment of city resources." >> mike barnicle mark halperin said this was a symbol of a broken city, they shouldn't do it. do you agree? >> i think they should play the game but i would have preferred -- i understand the city resources thing. you need police details. i get that but it would have

been great if they stay out of school one more day and had a bunch of kids fill in the seats at camden yards. >> i like that idea. >> msnbc's kasie hunt joins us from camden yards in baltimore. k asie? >> this is a city that love this is baseball team. i was up here for the playoffs last year. it turns orange and black. and to have this stadium stand empty is really a symbol for this city and also in a broader sense they have a statue of babe ruth here because he was born in baltimore. so for baseball as a hole it's a really difficult thing and the security here they did postpone two games, some fans on the saturday night game were trapped inside the stadium briefly while they said that they were dealing with some violence outside. so they may this is the best solution. i have that also talked to nationals park or at least they

considered moveing the game to nationals park. but i think there are a lot of questions. what is this going to sound like? are they going to play john denver's feather bed in the seventh inning stretch? are they going to play the national anthem? the fans yell "oh" in the middle of it which drives everyone crazy. so i think it will be a stunning visual later this afternoon. >> and symbolic of where we are. msnbc's kasie hunt thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," how did the baltimore protests go from teens throwing rocks to parts of the city going up in flames? we'll go live to baltimore to talk to wbal's jane miller. plus can't wait until the third season of "orange is the new black" hitting netflix? stick around cnbc is going inside the prison that house it had real life piper. >> you watch that huh? >> i've seen it. i've seen a few. >> mike you watch it. >> i've seen several episodes. >> great acting. >> a friend of mine's daughter

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- electronics don't live forever. but even if they're dead, they've got more to give. recycle them. their parts can be reused to make new devices. so your trash could be someone else's treasure. the more you know. >> it was formally known as the box. i had no access toeszing aaccess to a library, no access to a gym, the food was brought to us. >> reporter: he tried to land a laundry job that got him out of his cell six hours each day. >> we earn about 85 cents a day

working in the laundry room. >> reporter: you went from being paid how much a year. >> well i had a couple banner years where through great appreciation of stock i earned a hundred million dollars. >> so a hundred million dollars in one year -- >> to 85 cents a day. a big cut in pay. >> that's an understatement. >> it is a big cut in by a. that was an interview with dennis kozlowski who served six and a half years in prison for stealing millions of dollars from his company. it's part of cnbc's new documentary "white collar convicts, life on the inside." joining us now, "new york times" columnist in and anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. >> thank you for having me. i love being at this table. >> do you like my women's round table wrvelgts a table? >> with a bunch of dudes. >> your shoes are fabulous. >> everybody looks great. >> miss you guys. >> we do miss you, you should come on the show. >> it's complicated. there's another show on the same

time. >> but we've got the real "morning joe" over here. >> we're not going to start that one. >> joe kernin joking my friend. what an amazing interview. this guy last time we saw him he has ice sculptures the size of the chrysler building. >> remember those parties? >> extraordinary parties. >> we interviewed him, we had a number of ceos. remember a guy named joe nacchio that used to run something called quest, he was in prison for a time. talks about getting thugged out. bernard carrick is in the documentary. he goes into solitary for 60 days so -- >> 60 days in solitary? >> it as very interesting to watch the emotional journey of these individuals. we actually found a guy -- this was probably the toughest. we found a guy on his way to prison. he'd been convicted for stealing $4 million 50r million$5 million and we went with cameras to watch someone get broken, truly become

broken. it was remarkable. and since we're at the women's table, with anymore prison, part of this was inspired by "orange is the new black." and we went and found a number of white-collar women, including somebody who had stolen and ripped off people through mortgage fraud. amazing story in terms of just what happens. a mother of four children her husband also was in on the fraud. i don't know if you should feel bad for her, by the way. she did do some bad stuff. he goes to prison at the same time so the four kids are out with friends while they're in prison, she was pregnant eight months pregnant when she went into prison. so it's very interesting to see the sort of emotional issues that are related to -- then there's larger issues societal issues about how this works. >> barnicle? >> andrew, i've been to danbury, i've ban to allenwood. >> just visiting. >> some public perceptions but, they call them "cloud february." but not just dennis kozlowski,

but the other people featured into the documentary that they get into the fact that when you lose your freedom you lose your freedom? >> i would say in some instances you do lose your freedom and it's horrible. there's no question it's not club fed. in others for example, this woman heather bliss, she's going to yoga class. i gave her a hard time -- she's telling me she goes to yoga class, she goes to work calls her kid on the phone she called it a spiritual retreat. i have said are you kidding me? people are going to watch this and think this is nuts. we're paying in some orders $20,000 a year for these people to be incarcerated. >> incredible. and can you see -- look at the conversation we've had for the past three hours about baltimore and about -- and then you look at the finances of white-collar convicts. i ohm not sure that adds up fairly. >> there's only one kind of yoga, right? she's limited to a single. >> she has yoga? yoga? >> let me ask you about bernie carrick, a guy who would never have been indicted if he weren't

rudy giuliani's different. >> he calls it a political prosecution. >> i do, too. >> six months in solitary why? >> 60 days. >> why? >> one of the things that's very interesting about how they treat prisoners like him and kozlowski and others because they're high profile prisoners they get put into protective custody. how do you protect people like this? in his instance they put him in solitary because they didn't want other prisoners to hurt him or injure him. in the instance of kozlowski, he was put in protective custody, he was in with a judge, jah rule, the rapper was one of his mates, if you will. they put you in protective custody to quote/unquote protect you but they will also break you in that process. also interesting if you travel. sometimes you go on literally con air. if they want to move you from one prison to another, that's when you really go into solitary. because of the travel you're put in next to murderers and other really terrible terrible offenders. of course all this raises the question, though, what do you want to do? do you think we need to treat

white-collar crime -- is white-collar crime worse, better than the kid who sticks up the corner store? and that's sort of the larger issue. and also what happens when you go in prison and whether it's weather rehabilitative effort or whether there's a lot of recidivism and people come out even worse. >> let me ask really quickly. we just had news break that the economy only grew at .02%. what's the state of the economy -- sorry, .2%. what does that mean? >> i think what's happening here is we are going into a slower growing environment than we thought. it's not the end of the world. i think the stock market has not incorporated what's happening here at all and i think corporate earnings are going to be tougher and tougher. that may -- by the way, it may change the way the fed interacts with all of us. we may have higher interest rates. that may be a good thing. we'll see. >> part of the blame is the

weather. >> did you say blame the weather? >> consumer spending. >> that's one of the issues. by the way, it's possibility these numbers get revise sod it's possible in a couple quarters we'll have a different view. >> white collar convicts airs tonight on cnbc. andrew ross sorkin so good to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> eastern and pacific like a real tv guy, right? >> up next on "morning joe," before he was the governor of maryland martin o'malley was baltimore's mayor. will the riots make his long-shot bid for 2016 even longer? we'll go live to wbal's jane miller when we come back.

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throwing rocks to parts of the city going up literally in flames. joining us now from baltimore, jahn mill jayne miller from wbal tv. jayne, i know you've been looking into all of this. what have you been able to find out about the origins of these riots? >> reporter: mika, that's a good question because it turns out the city school system was aware on monday earlier in the day that there was going to be a problem and there might be a problem. that area where this happened is a major transit stop at the mall which brings together bunches of high school students from other schools so they can get on buses and the subway etc., to go on their way. so city police responded with 250 to 300 officers but, as they say, these were high school student we were dealing with not harden criminals so they didn't go there with the kind of gear that may have allowed them to keep those students more contained and push them back. experts tell me the whole idea of a crowd like that that gets angry and starts throwing stuff at you is to be able to push them back so they can't reach

you with what they're throwing with rocks, etc. etc. they were ill equipmentped to do that. and once the students go t the upper hand -- and they did -- it was like game on. one of the community activists said something like that takes on energy. the more emergency its took on older people got -- older young men got involved and we all know what happened later that night. so it's a terrific balance, a very fine balance law enforcement has to make when they're dealing with what turns out to be an angry crowd. but what's being looked at is whether we are prepared meaning the public is prepared for the next kind of incident like this that can suddenly take on a very different dynamic. >> we understand martin o'malley returned early from an overseas trip cancelling speeches in europe to take a look at the def devastation in baltimore. somehow the former mayor of baltimore received? >> mika that's a good question. martin o'malley visited the area of pennsylvania and north

avenues yesterday in west baltimore which is the epicenter, that's where the cbs story is, that burned it's become the epicenter of ongoing protests peaceful protests for the most part yesterday. so he kind of wades into the crowd and our reporter george lettuce was over there. we all have known for a long time that it was martin o'malley when he was mayor here in the 2000s that introduced zero-tolerance policing and those policies are largely blamed for the residual effects of the kind of policing today that is involved in the freddie gray matter. so the community -- his reception was rocky and our reporter asked him about it. >> there are people saying get out of here, they they harken back -- >> most of the people have been very nice to me. it's actually -- you've got to be present in the middle of the pain, man. we're all -- everyone's needed right now in our city. there's no -- everybody needs to step up. you see a lot of good people out

there that are stepping up. and here. and every neighborhood. >> do you feel any responsibility for the mass arrests that we saw in the early 2000s? >> every mayor does their very best to strike the right balance to save as many lives as we possibly can. >> in fact just recently within the past couple of years, o'malley was continuing to push through op-ed pieces in the local newspaper for the mayor, stephanie raw linglings blake, to return to that stricter arrest policy and tougher arrest policy in order to control crime. we have an interesting view of o'malley from the ground in baltimore having covered him for many years and are watching with interest as he tries to run for president. >> jayne miller from wbal in baltimore. thank you very much. so interesting the zero-tolerance policies. you can be on one side or the other with that. i don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if it's coupled with other options. and i think if you have zero

tolerance all over the streets of a devastated city that is poor and desperate and angry then it further leads to the problems we've had today. >> i had one civil rights activist tell me that martin o'malley as governor was rudy giuliani on crack. that he was -- he took very very tough stand and, mark, you're agreeing. he took a very tough stand and -- yeah. >> being cast as a huge liberal but on law enforcement issues he was very conservative and social issues as well. >> that may not be good social policy but it's good political policy and martin o'malley probably at some point will tell you if he's pushed to hard on this these riots certainly never took place when he was in charge because he did have a tough law and order policy. this has been an ongoing debate

mike and the balance act that we've done before. we talked about how baltimore may have been -- city officials fighting the last war, not wanting to be militarized. now you have to fear in the next war that is fought they will look back at this war and will move too quickly and too aggressively. it's a war the quote is the that the general's big mistake is fighting the last war. >> both jobs are very tough, being the mayor of any city like that policing is a tough job. it's going to come down -- we're going to go back to community policing. get out of the patrol car, get to know the blocks you're supposed to patrol. >> right now, baltimore is a city that has a baseball game with nobody in the stands. some coming up next we have an exclusive interview with dan duquette he is the team's executive vice president and an amherst graduate. well, that explains it all. we'll be right back. 's newest energy superpower. surprised? in fact, america is now the world's number one

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okay joining us from memorial park at camden yards, executive vice president of baseball operations for the baltimore orioles, dan duquette. dan, first of all, why would you even think of going to amherst? i don't get it? [ laughter ] >> asks the williams grad. >> well, you know it's a great school. there's a lot of great schools in the northeast but i was real happy to get in there and go there and i have a lot of

friends from there. >> that's cute. bad call. so question about another bad call, and now we'll get serious, a lot of people are saying having the games with nobody -- have the game today with nobody in the stands is gosh at the very least giving into what's plaguing baltimore and perhaps is shortsighted and about money in the long run. tell us what was behind this decision and what do you say to critics who say it was a really bad call? >> well, there's a lot of considerations to take into mind here, you know? we wanted to be sensitive to what's going on in our city and we also wanted to take a look at the work schedule. there's a very demanding schedule in major league baseball. and in this case, the white sox, this is the only time they're in town and there's not a good time for them to come back and play ball. and i've always looked at the baseball team as really being

like a town meeting and i hope that baseball can have the affect of unity within our community and be part of the healing process once we get back on a reg schedule. >> dan, i know several guys on your roster as well as you, your manager, are involved in the community on a fairly regular basis, guys like all-star outfielder adam jones, people like that. what impact have the last three or four days in baltimore with the city -- portions of the city in flaims. what impact has it had on the team? do the players talk about it? tell me the feeling that they have about it. >> well i saw some quotes from darren o'day where he understood why we weren't going to be playing, how the city could divert resources, where they were needed at this time of need and the orioles didn't have to be playing ball at that time and we have a lot of players that are doing good work in the

community, o'day does a lot with the wounded warrior project, adam jones, our center fielder, lives here and he's a role model for a lot of kids within the city and rightly so. he's a terrific player does a lot of great community work in the community centers here provides opportunities for the kids to come to the ballpark and a beacon of light for the community is adam jones. here's a guy, a gold glover silver slugger and made a commitment to the community in baltimore and i think adam's a key figure for the youth that follow the orioles. >> this is a controversial decision obviously, because -- we're split at this table. i think it's the right call mike thinks it's the right call. mark halperin you said it was weird and freaky? not normal and stupid. describing about half of mike barnicle and my life. >> i just think it's -- the city doesn't need it. dan, are you going to play john denver during the game?

>> well i'm not exactly sure how today's game is going to go. it's going to be a little bit different than what people are used to. our fans are going to be able to follow it on mesn which is good. and they'll be able to maintain continuity with the team. but it's a very very difficult call but we think under the circumstances it was required to try and play one of these ball games. >> you know, it will be obviously, something to see and perhaps symbolic of where we are and that might be important. dan duquette thank you very much good luck today. >> thank you dan, great having you. sorry you had to endure the williams grab. >> well dan could drive to amherst from his home in dalton massachusetts, and you couldn't mika. >> dan duquette thank you. that does it for us this morning, stay with msnbc on the calm but still-tense situation in baltimore and all of the days other news as well.

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♪ ♪ the beautiful sound of customers making the most of their united flight. power, wi-fi and streaming entertainment. that's... seize the journey friendly. . good morning, i'm jose diaz-balart. right now, the curfew is lifted and students are back at school? baltimore, but the anger and trust ration over the death of 25-year-old freddie gray fatally injured in police custody, has not gone away. in a radio interview that aired this morning with steve harvey president obama says he unders