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the peace. got to keep the peace. we have to keep the peace. we're proud of baltimore. we're a great city. we are a great city. we are a peaceful city. we are a peaceful city. >> congressman elijah cummings last night on the streets of baltimore moments before the second night of a city wide curfew too effect. things are once again relatively calm in baltimore last night. police made 16 arrests. >> and that drew 101 people arrested during the violent protests and looting on monday are now free because they were not charged in time because of a paperwork backlog. and the demonstrations over the undescribed death of freddie gray while in police custody spread to cities across the country. in new york city more than 1,000 people hit the streets to show solidarity with protesters this baltimore. some clashes broke out as police

with riot helmets and batons tried to break up the protests. >> and smaller demonstrations also took place in locations across the city bringing traffic to a halt. some blocked the entrance of the holland tunnel as others marched on lower manhattan in times square. >> nbc news has confirmed that more than 100 people are now facing charges. so far no injuries are been report issed reported. a lot going on here. we'll continue right there because there is a new report this morning that is adding to the uncertainty about what led to freddie gray's death while in police custody. today's "washington post" story not confirmed by nbc news centers on a document said to be written by a police investigator, a prisoner in the van in the police van purportedly says he heard gray banging against the walls and,

quote, intentionally trying to injure himself. that prisoner could not see gray because they were separated by a partition. but jane miller investigative reporter for our baltimore affiliate, reported even before gray's death that there was no evidence to back up that claim. she says an autopsy also showed a spinal cord injury for gray and that there would have been additional injuries if he had banged his own head. in addition, she says the police commissioner recently stated the prisoner's ride in the police vap was calm and quiet and sources tell miller that gray was unresponsive when the second prisoner was picked up. interesting that part of the police report was released. i have a lot of questions about it too. >> again, this goes back to what is not knowing what went on inside that vapn, not knowing exactly what happened, when he received the injury that he received. not to be simple minded but it goes back to the fact that there weren't cameras on the police officers.

there need to be body cams on every police officer. i suspect five years from now we'll look back and ask what the hell were we doing for so long that we would have these questions that could be easily answered when you put body cameras on every cop. >> this comes before baltimore police announced that they are not going to release all the findings of their investigation because a lot of this is that the public and the protests that you're seeing in the street is because people would like some answers. >> they did release that part. >> just that part. that's so unbelievable unhelpful at this point. joining us from baltimore, national correspondent peter alexander. peter, any word as to when we'll get a full report? >> reporter: it's a good question. following up on the "washington post" report we spent much of yesterday in west baltimore. and you won't be surprised to hear many in that community were disbelieve disbelieving, they did that believe this new account from the "washington post". separately in terms of when we

get the full investigation going forward, we heard for the first time yesterday from the spokesperson for police about this specific detail because so many people, let's be clear, throughout this community had been anticipating friday would be the day that the police investigation would be released. so here is that spokesperson as well as a member of the community, pastor jamal bryant. >> we have an obligation to be accountable to the people of baltimore in this investigation. we know that there are a lot of people who have concerns that they want addressed. and we have an obligation to do our best to be account theable. we cannot release all of the information to the public because if there is a decision to charge in any event by the state's attorney's office the integrity of that investigation has to be protected. so by turning these documents, our findings over to the state's attorney's office as quickly as we can, we're being accountable to them so that we can be accountable to the public. >> i spent most of the morning

going to high schools because there is a rumor going through high schools that somehow or another there is a verdict on friday. and so it is our responsibility to make sure that misinformation is corrected. and so the community is going to stand in lockstep on friday so that we do not have a repeat of what it is that we saw on monday. it is our allegiance to the community that the world is going to see a better baltimore than what we saw on monday night. >> reporter: >> reporter: again that was the pastor explaining that many throughout the community believe that this friday would be the day that either justice was served or information was released. they wanted arrest indictments. but yesterday, we spent the day sitting on the stoop outside a dilapidated property with a couple holding their granddaughter in their arms they said her name is heaven spelled backwards and they said we are waiting for friday this

will be the day. and they said if there is not information that this community wants to hear we're afraid what could happen. and they fear it's a ticking time bomb. >> let me just confirm this. ticking time bomb. is this the police investigating themselves peter? >> reporter: well, this is the first investigation that is being done by the police ultimately investigating themselves that they will then hand over to the state attorney's office. prosecutor prosecutors. they don't want to get involved in that process and release more detail before the investigation as they say is hopefully complete. >> peter alexander, thank you very much. i'm not satisfied. i don't really at this point the police should be investigating themselves. does anyone want to chime in? at this point given what has happened in baltimore, a city that can't even have a baseball game. >> but if this is the protocol you have to believe that's where it would start initially. the curiosity that i have is why if the community is waiting for this kind of report on friday just going optics doctor would

you release this aspect of the report only or at least leak -- we know what leaks are about and where those things come from. don't believe any leaks until the report comes out. i applaud that pastor. i'm glad to see the pastor and i thought the mayor got unfairly criticized at the beginning of this because people thought she exercised too much restraint. i think she exercised more action and perhaps been aggressive if worse things had happened. what i applaud now whatever you you thought about the past is fine, but what she's doing now and the leadership i think it's smart. if it they don'tt if he they don't release the report on friday, i fear that we'll be back here on monday having another ugly terrible conversation about an ugly set of events. >> if ferguson, people were waiting for reports. and we saw an outburst of violence.

they have to be careful about building up expectations that there will be answers on a certain day and then not getting those. >> i just wonder if people across our country as we deal with issues of potential police brutality ought to be looking and doing things differently at this point. howard dean, to you think the police should be investigating themselves at this point or should a separate above set of investigators come in and take a look at what went down in baltimore? >> that is what should happen. and there is a very interesting bill suggested by the attorney general in new york eric snyderman, who believes as in the case with eric gardner and others, that you cannot have state's attorneys investigating the police. obviously police investigating the police is a problem. state's attorneys and police officers work together every single day in order to maintain order and bring people to court. so it's as if you're investigating you're own colleagues and you can't do it.

it has to be fixed heldly lyegally by legislatures. >> joe, you and i agreed on this when ferguson was happening. you may have to have an independent -- to dean's point. >> as police officers and state's attorney, they're always on the same side. you have public defenders always fight the state's attorneys and the cops. as to for anybody that doesn't know the legal system they think the state's attorneys are like arbiter of justice and have a blindfold on. no, they're prosecutors. their job is to prosecute. and their closest allies, 355 days out of the year are cops. because cops come and try to get bad people off the street and they work together time and time again. and sometimes the bad people they get off the street aren't even bad.

sometimes people go to jail that shouldn't go to jail. but that's the alliance. so to have them investigating cops is just absolute insanity. it's a rigged game and it always has been. >> it takes an emotional toll on themselves and their families. they put themselves in danger every day. there are so many good cops out there. but the deck is stacked for them to protect each other. i wouldn't believe anything that came out on friday if it did. i wouldn't. if i were a member of that community, i would be insulted. >> and if you look at the polls showing the difference in confidence in our police forces between minorities and whites in this country part of the reason that black americans don't trust the system is because they don't trust the police have been held accountable. >> and it can be fixed pretty simply. i'm not knocking state's attorneys any more i'm knocking -- it would be like me

investigating me or you investigating me on something. i'm not knocking them at all. they're just on the same side. there is an inherent conflict of interest and it serves neither side very well. we need to set up as hoard is saying an independent investigative group in every state, every jurisdiction to investigate when something like this happens. >> i think due to what has happened in ferguson what happened in south carolina, i think eventually you are going to have independent investigators looking at police-involved shootings. this was not a police-involved shooting. i have to assume that the way the system works in baltimore county is that there is probably a county prosecutor working with police as they investigate what happened with freddie gray in the back of that van. larger investigation after that. but i have to tell you i don't think i'm the only one, i can't imagine being a resident of baltimore city i'm confused by

this whole story. have they released the autopsy report yet? >> it doesn't appear they have. >> i don't know if they have. an autopsy report you can get within a couple of days. not tox ol gi. that takes a while. i get that. but an autopsy report how did he -- >> they haven't. and why don't we talk about the mayor who bungled this from the very start. this is the next challenge. hold her city government accountable. why is the autopsy the not released? and are we going to have -- three week. are we going to have another explosion in the middle of next week? the mayor's going to say maybe we should go ahead and release it. howard dean why does it take three weeks to release an automatic top autopsy? shouldn't they see what happens in 2450es communities that are so put upon when they feel like governments and the police department is dragging their

feet? >> the question about the autopsy is very interesting. and i have absolutely no idea why they haven't done that. let me make a larger point though. this is not the same as ferguson. obviously race is an issue in all this stuff, but half of the police force this baltimore is black. >> "washington post" said yesterday, howard, in balt are more baltimore, this isn't about race as it is class divide. >> that's a good point. it's also about race of course. in baltimore, are there has not been a lot of progress in the last 40 years. if you go to these neighborhoods and they look like north philadelphia which is another area that hasn't been a lot of progress, a lot of this is about economic deprivation, but dropping the ball. this has been going on for a long time. investment has not been mads ine s in these neighborhoods unlike brooklyn which is coming back washington, d.c. which is coming

back. there are a lot of cities even detroit now with the bankruptcy process, is beginning to come back. that needs to happen in baltimore and philadelphia. you're right, this is about economic deprivation, lousy investment policies tax breaks for people who make a million a year instead of tax credits for people who go redevelopment neighborhoods like this. we have a fundamental question in america that nobody is talking about. we're all talking about freddie gray. we ought to be talking about the problems in these neighborhoods. lousy schools. that's the issue. >> top to bottom exactly. and that is something, mika obviously -- >> here's what we have in baltimore. we have a response that was slow. national guard that was not called in on time. luckily they got ready themselves even though city officials waited too long to call them this but they at least had the wherewithal to start preparing so it took them three hours to finally get there once they were enacted. we have a police department investigating itself after a young man died of a spinal cord

injury inside a police van, an injury he received either in that van or before in police custody. we have an autopsy report that is being handled by the state medical examiner who says that the preliminary report will be available as soon as possible. and it will take weeks for the official report to come out. >> why? >> what's wrong here? and when at some point does someone else step in? at least a preliminary autopsy report would show us whether freddie gray had injuries on his head, whether he had something that could have resulted from him banging his head against a partition wall in the van. >> we should have that now. >> what an autopsy report does it answers c.o.d. cause of death. there is no reason why it should take three weeks for the initial report. if i'm a resident of baltimore, if i'm from freddie gray's neighborhood, i'm going to be

really, really -- >> at least we'd have some benchmark. i can't imagine it takes three weeks. >> i can suggest that it maybe should be expedited at this point. credit yesterday we showed you the mother who publicly scolded her son after taking part in the riots. the video of course went viral are plenty of praise for toya graham's action. >> i understand how much my mom cares about me. so i'll just try and do better. >> did you have many of your friends flex to you? >> they were around. >> yeah, they were like are you okay? are you okay? and i'm looking at them like -- is he okay sf. >> my friends know my mama. >> i'm not angry with him anymore. as long as i have breath in my bed, you will not be on the streets selling drugs and you're not going to live like that.

not with me. >> a good mom. okay. we'll have much more on this situation this baltimore ahead in the show. plus the mayor of newark new jersey is here with an exclusive look at his new executive order. he's giving civilians the power to subpoena the police. also ahead, a staggering one-half of younger americans say they lack confidence in the justice system. we'll talk to the director of harvard's polling center about those numbers. >> and there is a huge shift in this survey compared to the 2014 survey on where millennials want to go. and later, the country's economic growth is barely move, all but stalling out. we'll talk to austan goolsbee who went from advising the president to teaching the next generation of business leaders. ♪ ♪

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21 past the hour. a new report claim as guilty plea could come as early as tomorrow in the new jersey bridgegate scandal. bloomberg cites an anonymous

source and reports a new ally of new jersey governor set to plead guilty for his role in causing traffic jams at the foot of the george washington bridge in 2013. it was wildstein's e-mail exchange with another staffer about traffic problems in ft. lee that put the scandal in the national spotlight. the report suggests wildstein is cooperating with federal prosecutors and could soon reveal more about how the plot unfolded. his lawyer has not commented on the report. this potential development as governor christie prepare as final decision on whether he will seek the presidency. he said he has no advance knowledge of the lane closures which caused the jams. >> if he's cooperating with investigators, that could be bad news for chris christie and it could be really good with chris christie. if he's not implemented with

wildstein, working with him -- then, you know, if there is a smoking gun, wildstein will put it out there to protect himself. if there is not, he won't. and it will actually give chris christie more credibility moving forward. >> so the book "clinton cash" which we had the author on this week is laying the ground work for yet more reporting on secret donations to the clinton foundation. so questions were raised and now different news organizations including this one are looking into it. according to the "washington post" i'd cities of more than 1 thourgs who ,000 who gave money remains hidden to the public despite a 2008 ethics agreement that says they would disclose sources of funding while hillary clinton served as secretary of state. >> and let me just say, you were ask positioning the question are there any violations.

the "washington post" is reporting there are 1100 right there. start at 1100. that's your baseline. ed a and then move on from there. >> what does it mean that they have to dissgloe does thatsisclosedisclose? can the white house say you can't do this one or just have to tell them? howard, do you have the answer? >> the canadian foundation has given money to the clinton foundation. and that's been disclosed. under canadian law, the donors no to the canadian foundation are not required to disclose. so this is a breathless piece of hot air. >> actually, it's good r0r89eporting by the "washington post". because it's not about canadian law, this is a decision made by hillary clinton when she agreed to be secretary of state that she was going to reveal the sources of donations.

and she has no authority in canada to fortce canadians to reveal their donations. >> this stems from bill clinton's ties to canadian mining finance. the foundation does say what howard says under canadian law, the donors can keep their names private. we have reporting there mike allen and also bloomberg, they're noting some canadian tax and privacy law experts are actually saying that claim put forward by bill clinton's good canadian friends and his organization actually may not be accurate. now the charity is actually contacting contributors who gave six figure donations in the hopes that they will sign off on letting their identities go public. mike, you wanted to say something? >> governor just quickly, as someone who i think informally endorsed hillary clinton's candidacy for government if not you're close to doing it --

>> i have. >> -- wouldn't you advise her despite what you may think or what the news contends wouldn't you advise her to address this at some point? they are awash in money stories. >> i think there is not much to these stories. honestly. and i would not advise her to do that. i really do think this is a bad -- this is bad press. this is pack journalism. i know you strongly disagree with me. i think it's the press at its worse. every time you make a big allegation, you drill down and find out there is not much truth to it or in-credit bible dws torsions to it. nobody seriously thinks the law has been broken in any way. >> that's not true. and i think if you -- we don't know yet. i know that a lot of politicians are sitting in jail for doing what appeared to be at the beginning of the investigation into their conduct a lot less. i know something else, howard and then we'll move on and i will bring in other people. i know you would never do this

and i know most other politicians would never do this. i know you would never ever allow there to be an parns of impropriety before we disagree on a lot offof political issues. you would never do something that would allow your members of family to make millions at the time when you were governor. the clintons have a hard time drawing those lines. and i think they have always been too clever but i think this time they have a lot of explaining to do. and if you look at past precedent, me characterization just over the past several years, if you look at bob menendez's case, bob mcdonnell's case these are questions that have to be raised. because people are sitting in jail for doing so much less. >> howard would you do this? >> i think this is a ridiculous investigation. >> that's my answer. >> you don't even know all the things that are out there and

you're already dismissing it. can i say this? i am really glad we have a new england version of james are carville because sometimes i don't understand what he's saying. i mean he goes does a billy goat go after a crocodile? no. >> i think the main stream media is in a frenzy over right wing book which is by the same company that owns the publisher. there is no there there. >> you can't say that there is no there there when the investigations haven't even begun. >> there has not been one thing in any of this shown that there was thinking illegal done. there have been donations made to the clinton global initiatives. cgi does incredible work across the world. whether you support that kind

of -- >> for themselves and others. >> they do incredible work not to benefit themselves but the people, children, women, families -- >> bill clinton had deals involved in all of this. he benefits himself to the tune of $150 million, haurld.rold. >> but you can't make these kind of connections -- >> that's why you have an investigation. that's all i'm saying. >> they release $1100 infractions because names were not revealed. >> about but the "washington post" says that, no the me.because names were not revealed. >> about but the "washington post" says that, no the me. the "washington post" should always -- here is the "washington post". now that they're going after the clintons, we just throw that away? >> of course not. >> the "new york times" reported on the claims. let's throw that away. no harold. >> no then you tie them to mcdonnell and menendez. that's not fair. >> what did i say? what i said was -- >> i think it's unfair to draw those kind of comparisons. >> you can keep saying it all

you want to or you can let me tell you what i actually said or we'll get the tape. what i said was if you look at all of the information that we have, at this point of the story, and compare to all the information we had in bob menendez's case in new jersey that we have right now at the beginning of that, or bob mays' story years ago in congress who got thrown in jail for putting something on the house floor because he went golfing in scotland, or if you look at let's say bookb mcdonnell who got a rolex watch and a couple of other things and his big offense was he held a reception in the virginia governor's mansion for a diet supplement and he's going to jail. we're talking about people making millions of dollars and changing their position on nuclear issues involving india. and i would say it's ridiculous.

you don't even kneeow the story, howard. >> i've read the story and it's a ridiculous story. there is no evidence whatsoever -- >> what's going on here? this is fantastic. >> you're making this up. you're making this up. >> this is like saying algeria was on the terrorist list for god's sake. >> i want everybody to look what is happening. this is why i love the internet. howard dean has just pulled out -- this is what the clintons are doing now. a couple days ago, i accidently said on the air, and i said i wasn't sure, but i read a report -- we do a three hour show and we're bombarded with information. so i said a couple of days ago, i said i think the deal was they got all of this money and algeria was on the terror list and then i think allegations are that the state department may have taken them off after they made all of this money. and i think bill clinton made a speech but i'm not sure. the clintons in media matters

came out and said joe scarborough is dead wrong, false claim. >> it's a popular morning show. >> you can let me finish? because you know where i'm going. >> i will if you let me finish once in a while. >> you go ahead after i tell you, so this is what they do, they don't want you to get the sentence out because the fact is -- and i apologized on twitter. i'm so sorry because actually they weren't taken off the terror list that's in the what the state department changed, there were horrible human rights violations that may have been white washed. this is the clintons big defense, that i talked about a terror list instead of horrible human rights abuses. okay. so i got it wrong. it was about gross horrible human rights violations that may have been whitewashed buyer they the state department instead of a terror list. and this is the great defense.

and now let's go to politico and you all can attack politico because now we found out that the "washington post" isn't legitimate anymore, "new york times" isn't legitimate, and let's move that on to plirt companyblit company. and all i was talking about is at this stage let the investigations go because there appear to be a lot more here than there was at the beginning of bob menendez's case. mike allen, you have new reporting on this. and understand if you dare say anything negative about the clintons, you will be a tool of right wing hacks. go ahead. good luck. >> this is a story for governor dean because it's not pack journalism. there is no frenzy here. this is a story that is just posting on politico right now, "morning joe" viewers are hearing about it for the first time. ken vogel looks inside the clinton foundation about how these stories, how these issues with affecting the clinton foundation. so this is the other end of the

telescope. until now the coverage has been focused on what it means for secretary clinton's campaign. ken vogel talked to a donor who had given $500,000 to the clinton foundation in the past. three other donors four donors who say that they may not give in the future or may cut back their giving because of the issues that have been raised about the clinton foundation. a big donor who has given at least $500,000 said they had questions before about how the clinton foundation was run or spent its money even before this clinton cash book started circulating. and by the way, the actual book isn't even out if five more days, next tuesday when secretary clinton is in nevada. we found concerns have provoked a huge internal debate there.

they had to cancel a conference coming up in it athens that had an elaborate reception that went along with it, we're told president clinton did not want to can tell that. chelsea clinton, the new power in the foundation who runs the clinton global initiative's university, cgiu, that apparently is running in the red. she didn't want that cut back. so what this story says is that the worse case scenario would be for the clintons would be secretary clinton loses her presidential race then chelsea would be in charge who hasn't had anything like the fundraising prowess of her parents. if hillary clinton wins they could afford to step back from all these programs because the money will be there in the future. >> mike allen, thank you. first of all, we'll have a chance for everybody to talk. we'll go to break. if we can put the five box up. i have a yes or no question for howard and harold. and if you can give me anything but a yes or no we're just going to go to break.

you both served howard you first, and then harold you second would your books look like this is thisf you had a foundation while you were serving? just yes or no. howard. >> nobody knows what's in them. >> that's not a yes or a no. >> that's correct, it's not. >> harold. an honest answer please. >> i share howard's opinion, but if the books like like how they're -- >> harold -- >> the answer is no. >> you wouldn't have done it. and howard teendean despite the role that he's in right now beating everybody up that dares to challenge the clintons i know howard dean. howard dean would never do this. a lot of people wouldn't do it. but when i got cancer, i finally had a health plan i could afford. without it, i wouldn't be here with my husband and be able to do what i love --

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time for the must read opinion pages. i'm glad harold is smiling sort of. this is jonah goldberg. he says the standard is that public servants should avoid even the paensappearance of impropriety. not only is there three decades of evidence they think the standard does not apply to them but growing evidence his biggest supporters are happy to play the fool again. >> i want to focus in on the

standard of impropriety. we were talking about -- you were talking about as we were going to break the appearance of improceed im impropriety impropriety, would harold or howard do this. >> it's almost a political question. if you have decided as hillary clinton clearly did years ago that you are going to run for president of the united states you need to go above and beyond what the law demands in order to make sure there is no appearance or possible interpretation of impropriety. so if canadian law, and it's incredibly complicated says donors don't have to be disclosed, perhaps i would have said i don't care what the canadian tax law says, i'm running for the president, i'll make sure those names are open and public. >> what is so fascinating about this mika, is the fact that

when this all first erupted, the e-mail brouhaha people started talking about foreign donations and then we found out that the clintons were still taking foreign money, people were like why? why is this why? and bill clinton in 2012, there is a clip of bill clinton saying we're in thenot going to take foreign donations because if somebody had business before the state department, there would be an appearance of impropriety. they not only burst through what the guidelines of the white house put about up, obama white house put up, they burst through their own self pronounced guidelines. >> and the other way of looking at the this canadian situation is that oh, is this a great opportunity to not have to disclose. we'll use this portion because their laws are different.

again, your financial records would not look like this if you were running for president. >> i would answer the questions probably more fully than i think we're hearing from the clinton foundation. >> it is absolutely not -- >> we don't know what's in there, but i understand the premise of your question and i agree with you. but there is an assumption that they have done something wrong and i don't know that to be the case. i don't dispolice the "new york times" or the "washington post". what i challenge is whether we have enough facts to reach some of the conclusions that seem to be -- >> let's not jump to conclusions. >> that's all i said. >> i've been talking about an recent. i've been talking about an appearance of impropriety. i have not talked about criminal laws being broken. i talked about again the clintons being held to a different standard than other people who were sitting in jail right now when you talk about investigations. >> this should be raised of all

presidential candidates. >> it will be raised by jeb bush. jeb bush will go through this chapter in his career. schweizer will ask some really tough questions about how the people that gave so much money to george w. bush got a cut of florida's pension program. and that's like a billion plus. >> and you have to draw connections. >> and let me just say i'll be just as tough on jeb bush as i am with hillary clinton and i have 11 years of tape that proves sitting in this chair that i do this. likewise, howard marco rubio will have a lot of financial questions to answer when his time as speaker of the house and we should ask him the same questions about whether he used his position in an improper way. howard, last word. >> okay. so let me just -- let's put this in a little bit of perspective. this is not an excuse. we are talking about an organization that has made the

live of 485 million people around the world significantly better. and i just wish for a moment that we could focus on the incredible good things the clinton foundation has done. why do they get money from people that we may think are unsavory is this unsavory? i don't believe it's a because they influence hillary clinton and there is no evidence of that whatsoever. but there is plenty of evidence that they have done a lot of very very good things. and i think this is all politics. >> howard, i have absolutely no problem with them taking money from up savorynsavory characters to use it for the good. the problem here is when they break the obama white house's guidelines and we've asked the white house to answer when they did, when they didn't. and also when bill clinton turns away and makes the money he makes giving speeches on the side and again same questions we'll ask of jeb bush. when bill clinton's in power suddenedly he goes from making

$190,000 per speech when hillary is secretary of state to making $500,000 plus per speech. these are questions we would ask of anybody. and if mother jones comes out with documents that show jeb bush used his position to reward people and to make money himself himself? we will all be the first holding up mother jones' printouts addressand explaining how they got it right. >> and i'm not sure how the money was used is relevant. of course the clinton foundation does go. of course we should look at how it's financed. >> thank you, howard. >> another fun day. and by the way, last time you had to apologize to the "new york times". now items's the "washington post". just joking. >> up next some cities were taking actions to release accountability even before freddie gray's mysterious death while in police custody.

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get scotts ez seed. it's guaranteed. seed your lawn. seed it! he doesn't go into burning buildings. >> no he doesn't. >> he doesn't tweet while holding a baby. >> tries his best to save babies from burning buildings. joining us now ras baraka, he'll be signing an executive order establishing a review board empower willinging people with a voice. >> it's a great day in newark. we'll be signing an executive order that people have been calling for. it will give civilians the opportunity to subpoena police, have an independent investigation, begin to make

recommendations to the police director and police department and mayor about what should be done. in parallel with the internal affairs office as well. >> we've been talking about right now and i was saying as a lawyer when you have the state's attorneys or the d.a. and the cops investigating each other, they're on the same side. i got no problem with that. that's how the system is set up. but i to do have a problem with them investigating each other. >> and i think it helps the police department, it helps give the appearance of transparency it allows people to have faith in what will happen at the end of the investigation that it's not convoluted with other police officers with lawyer people that are friends. it's an independent body doing an investigation on incidents that happen. makes you feel comfortable with law enforcement. >> and at the end of the day, it helps the police department as well. >> what is the composition of the civilian review board? how many members and -- >> right now it's nine.

there will be three council members, there will be our inspector general that we have and there will be five community people that will be brought on by a passenger of community organizations that get to interview them. >> who from the police department? >> there will be no police officers on the board. >> just a quick question. in baltimore, we had a delay with the national guard. baseball game rngs, city was rioting. no preliminary autopsy report. should the police be investigating themselves? baltimore? >> absolutely not. >> mayor baraka, thank you very much. >> hey talk about the leading question. you may step down now. mr. mayor, thank you so much. we want you to come back. you tap the bumper of a station wagon. no big deal...

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did somebody leak that? >> wow. coming up -- >> we're talking about the part that "washington post" story that was leaked, i guess. >> it's a stunning report that claims freddie gray was trying to hurt himself in the police van. we'll talk to the investigative reporter who is now disputing that report. and are police making a mistake by not releasing their investigation on freddie gray's death? we'll speak to the pastor who is working with the community to keep calm before tomorrow's supposed deadline. >> and we'll talk about him holding an autopsy report.

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demonstrations resumed today, hundreds marching through the streets of west baltimore. >> i'm asking you to be patient, protest peacefully go to sleep at 10:00 because i'd like to go to sleep at 10:00. >> police said the results of their investigation will go straight to prosecutors, not to the public. >> they should not expect an indictment or arrests. all they can expect is a step forward. >> a prisoner who rode in that police van that he quote was intentionally trying to injure himself. >> interesting that that part of

the police report was released. sfwli >> i suspect five years from now we'll look back and say what the hell were we doing for so long. >> first in major league history, official attendance was zero. >> what we have seen in baltimore should tear at our soul. welcome back to "morning joe". joining the conversation from baltimore, best selling author and combat veteran in the u.s. army wes moore. good to have you on board. >> we had some interesting conversation last hour. a little heated. isn't that something? the "washington post" is now indicted as a right wing rag. "new york times". >> i thought it was funny. >> howard came on last week howard dean came on last week for those of who you didn't see and he said that the "new york

times" was a right wing rag sheet because they were talking about this clinton story the cash money. and now today it's the "washington post". and you got to be careful. it's one thing if you're going after linda tripp, quite another if you're going after the "new york times". i mean and the "washington post". >> it's interesting, it's frustrating. i'd love to see the campaign take off and turn into a message. she's certainly qualified. >> nobody here is saying they have done anything illegal, but certainly to say which is what howard and james carville earlier was saying we should not investigate any of this this is pack journalism, the "new york times" are hacks "washington post" filled with hacks. before you even start reporting on the story. i mean one of these stories was a story that hasn't even come out yet. s's just now coming out on a different as pegts. it's phony, crazy.

i mean and harold, we of course -- we had a spirited discussion. but we're all friends. everybody is having fun. and i think my biggest point and mika's biggest point was if you're running for president, there is an appearance of impropriety here.'s illegal, but it will be investigated because clintons promised they wouldn't take money from foreign sources. the line always moves with them. then we find out they took foreign money. ron forurnier talked about this a couple months ago. what are you doing? there is always this clouds around them. it's like pig pen. >> pig pen? >> mike and i were talking during the break i know bernie sanders is joining and we'll see how his campaign takes force.

but when you're the only person you get all of the questions over and over again. which means you have to answer them all. so they will have to answer a lot of these questions. i don't think there is anything there there. but i would say this if i were in the clinton camp this morning, and i've endorsed her, if i were here ooild i'di'd bemoan in baltimore and put money there. look at the program burned gown and say we'll start doing things here. i would initiate a conversation about a broader economic revival. use cgi. tease are things i'd be doing. >> that's a great idea. let's go to baltimore right now.are things i'd be doing. >> that's a great idea. let's go to baltimore right now. >> there is a new report this morning adding uncertainty about what led to freddie gray's death while in police custody.

today's "washington post" story not confirmed by nbc news centers on a document said to have been written by a police investigator, a prisoner in the police van purportedly says he heard gray banging against the walls and quote, intentionally trying to injure himself. that prisoner could not see gray because they were separated by a partition. but jane miller, the investigation great difference reporter for baltimore affiliate reported even before gray's death that there is no evidence to back up that claim. >> you'd have bruises on the side of the head. >> jane what are you you hearing in terms of what happened inside that police van and also this "washington post" report? >> reporter: good morning. we rely on our reporting and the information that we gather, we have reliably gathered information. and the situation that focuses on that particular part of the time line, this represents about five minutes of the 45 minutes that freddie gray was in police custody on april 12. and what we have reported is the

following. the medical evidence does not suggest at all that he was able to injure himself. the force of this injury akin to have the force involved in a car accident with all that momentum going, that is not the kind -- that is much more force than you would get trying to bang your head against the wall of the van. the second thing we have reported is according to our sources familiar with this investigation, at that stop when that prisoner is loaded, gray is unresponsive. not the able to bang his head against the wall of the van. yesterday we aired a piece that is based on the city's crimethe able to bang his head against the wall of the van. yesterday we aired a piece that is based on the city's crime camera system. and if you watch the video of that stop what you see, you see several police officers opening the door the back door of the van and the inside door and peering in. now, if you have a prisoner in there that is so irate thatging his head against the wall, i don't think that's the kind of thing you do to open the door and give him the chance to escape even if handcuffed and

shackled. so the objective evidence consists of the video that is limited, but there is video both from people on the ground when gray was first arrested and then from the city's own camera system. the medical evidence is objective and as we have reported, the medical evidence does not corroborate any kind of -- you have to have other injuries. you can't bang your head against the wall without having a bloody head. there is just no information that would corroborate that. and then of course our own reporting that according to sources, he was unresponsive at that point. >> and on another topic, we get toxicology, the delay in toxicology reports, it takes some time as a routine. but why the delay in releasing the autopsy report somewhat? what do you hear on that? >> i don't know of autopsy reports that get released in criminal investigations. i talked about this with you

guys. the baltimore police commissioner, i was baffled when i was there, i lost track of days, but what was it earlier in the week two weeks ago, i don't know when he said may 1 we'll have a report. it will be public. whatever he said. i'm like why are you setting a deadline? this is a criminal investigation that should be conducted without that kind of false expectation. that is setting an expectation, set an expectation that is completely false. criminal investigations are not done in the public realm. become public when they are at a point when something can happen where some decision can be made. now of course the police have backed way off of that but in the public there is this expectation that something will happen. autopsy reports don't get released. >> so what about a preliminary autopsy report? that's not an -- that's not a police investigation. this is a medical situation, somebody dies.

there is an autopsy report. why doesn't the primary get released? >> they have released the preliminary findings. >> have they released -- >> it was last week. >> have they released a preliminary autopsy report? >> the police department released preliminary findings of the autopsy. >> and what did it say? >> he died of severe spinal injury. no other injury. no broken limbs. our open our own reporting has gone further and said he had no evidence that he banged his head against the wall to do this to position. >> so we'll have a complete report several weeks there now. >> all right. jayne, thank you so much. baltimore police are also saying they won't release the findings of their investigation to the public and of course that's what jayne was just talking about. and here's the department's

reason why. >> we have an obligation to be accountable to the people of baltimore in this investigation. we know that there are a lot of people who want answers who have concerns that they want to have addressed. and we have an obligation to to our do our best to be accountable. we cannot release all the information to the public because if there is a decision to charge in any event by the state's attorney's office, the integrity of that investigation has to be protected. so by turning these documents, our findings, over to the state's toirn'sstate attorney's office as quickly as we can, we're being accountable to them so we can be accountable to the public. >> so there is some confusion around the table here. alex let's go to you if for a second because i heard last hour from the control room that they had not released the limb autopsy report. people are saying that hf-- what i

heard jayne say was they summarizedautopsy report. people are saying that -- what i heard jayne say was they summarized findings of the preliminary autopsy report. do you know, has there been a preliminary autopsy report? >> as far as i know i haven't seen one released fully. they said they will try to expedite that and that the full one will take weeks. that's from the governor's office. >> we'll go back and check on that. mike barnicle, this is baffling. this is a screwed up system that you don't release autopsy reports. i don't understand. >> it would be helpful chaotic situation on the streets in baltimore to give people as much information as you have. here it is. >> so the police have talked about -- alex said the police have talked about the findings of the preliminary report. they have not released the preliminary report according to our information. >> and in the light of the "washington post" report i think it's even more urgent that we have that preliminary report actually released because the

atlantic this morning is reporting on a whole load of questions, who was the police officer, why did he release this report, why is his identity being with held, who is the prisoner that reported that he heard freddie gray banging his head against the wall of the van. all of those questions now being raised in light of this. i think at least the preliminary report has to be released. >> we have to take a look at this differently. you have a city right now which has millions of dollars payouts happening in the past few years. and this case just seems it's headed in the wrong direction. it will end up on the streets and it will end up boiling over. somebody used the term ticking time bomb when the police is investigating itself in term of whether or not they killed somebody. i think we'll have a problem. joining us now reverend jamal bryant, pastor who delivered the moving eulogy for freddie gray this past monday. there is a, quote, deadline tomorrow. what are you telling people on the streets about that and secondly do you think the police should be investigating

themselves in baltimore shall. >> number one, i think it was a more rid mistake for the commissioner to even give a deadline. and secondly we've been trying to alert people that the investigation shouldn't be confused with a verdict. be mindful, we have three investigations going on at the same time. baltimore internal one that we absolutely don't trust, second is the state's attorney. third is d.o.j.. we're hoping one out of three are going to come back correct. but this walt disney special they're releasing about him hurting his own spine is insulting and infuriating to everybody in the community. >> you went around yesterday reports were you went around to high schools trying to calm everybody down. lower their expectations about the friday report. it seems that the job of anybody including yourself trying to calm tensions down certainly not

helped by somebody in the police department we would ge guessuess leaking a document suggesting freddie gray was responsible for his own injury in the back of the van. >> it's very disheartening. we had to go through the high schools that we thought were the hot centers of the conflict in a happened on monday try to ease tension. and so to -- here's what is all the more disheartening.tension. and so to -- here's what is all the more disheartening. they aired the story as soon as the curfew is put in. so everybody is at home watching this under the blurred screen of anonymity, nobody wants to be revealed, when this is the deadline week and now they're reporting they're sealing it and not going to release everything. it's a recipe for disaster and the food network is going out of business is this is where we'll be. >> so this is obviously a city where leadership and the police lost control for an entire night and had to call in the national

guard. it's not the first time it's happened. but the openly admitted they lost and cannot function normally. had to shut down schools and the bblg baseball park. city leaders with the internal investigation, is have anything they can do to restore credibility or is is that completely lost at this point? >> i won't say completely. as a preacher i have to have some glimmer of optimism. but there is still the line is tarnishing very quickly. really the mayor needs and the police commissioner needs to stop having press conferences and they need to come to the street where this conflict is and begin it really share with some level of integrity because people really feel detached from them. elijah cummings has been on the front lines doing a yeoman's job of trying to bring the community together, but we have in the words of nelson mandela's book a long walk to freedom.

so everybody better lace up their shoes. >> reverend in terms of your congregation and the community around you, in terms of the information that you would like to see released that you would like people to receive, what would be the most important elements of information that you think are critical right now on the sidewalk level? >> is that the report is not to be confused with a verdict. the report is not a verdict. that it is just the beginning of the process. and regrettably the commissioner has steered you wrong. it will be at least three more weeks before we have anything substantive. when this report comes back they don't even realize they can send it back for more testimony, more detail specialists to come in. and so it's really going to be a long process and not an overnight sensation. >> let me ask you, reverend just because i've been getting e-mails from people that is been asking about your eulogy which we all found to be very very moving. but you had a line if there that

shall people some people are seizing organization understand somebody will have to pay for this. who were you talking about? >> and when i said it i was saying in no uncertain terms not necessarily fiscally, but somebody will have to take responsibility for it. number one, you'll notice that in all of this we still have not heard from the precinct captain. he has not given any accountability for those who come under him. the police commissioner lost his face. and the mayor i'm not sure is getting the information. it's a bad melee and somebody will be accountable. and i want to remind awful the elected officials, we are one year away from an election here. and the same people that they call thugs a year there now will

be going in to the voting booth. so we have to todo some clear understanding that somebody will be held accountable for this. >> reverend, thank you so much. appreciate you being with us. >> i was wondering whether the reverend thinks they are doing an amazing job, the pastor this is baltimore, trying to keep palm people calm. i wonder what they think will happen tomorrow night after this deadline that seems like items not going to be a deadline. and the frustrations over this report in the "washington post" clearly boiling over. >> let's bring in wes moore. we talked about leadership the other day and what you've done in military service, sometimes it's a difference between life and did death. we've seen a lack of leadership in baltimore over the past week. some people are saying that it's gotten better from city officials. but it looks like the real leadership is coming from the ground up, coming from the pastors and from community people coming from people holding arm in arm say nothing violence tonight.

elijah cummings going out last night, being impassioned. a lot of great things going on, but we're all baffled by this city's response and baffled by the fact that the deadline will cause more violence. >> i've been amazed. i think there has been re leadership coming out of baltimore. i think a lot of it has been informal leadership. and think we've seen people step up in ways where they weren't necessarily asked, it's not their job title, but they stepped up because it's the right thing to do. all yesterday evening, i was out with pastors and ministers to include reverend bryant and community activists. and street organizations. and people who are really trying to both set an expectation in the community and let people know that friday should not be a major deadline that people are continuing to look at, but that also that regardless of what happens on friday, that there is still a lot of work it do. so really what is happening in the community, there is not just

a prayer for peace on friday sa and sunday, there is a prayer for progress. people want to see more transparent city, some evolution towards justice. when we're watching primary reports being releasedcity, some evolution towards justice. when we're watching primary reports being released and another concern i heard yesterday, how are we releasing reports when things like autopsy reports are still weeks away. so what information are we getting from reports when there is still in-complete information that has to be processed from those reports. so i think the community needs to feel more engaged and involved in the process. >> wes, this is harold ford. listening to reverend bryant, he seemed to be frustrated with the chief of police with the mayor. said maybe they weren't communicating and even went as far as to say the chief of police may be -- he talked about an episode of some tv show saying he's lost. is that the feeling you get on the street from the residents and community activists and

others? >> i think one thing people are feeling is that areas of expectations just are not being met. people are hungry for some form of progress some form of justice. people feel like they're not getting straight talk. they feel like they need to get a better and clear understanding of what is happening, what is going on. and another key thing people are hoping to see from their leadership, whether from the police department, city hall, et cetera, is that if at the end of this process if the only thing that we have is reformation in the policing then that's not going to be enough. there is a year understanding right now that what is simmering is not simply about policing or freddie gray. average income is just shy of $70,000. average income for african-americans in baltimore is just shy of $35,000. people who live in freddie gray's community is just shy of

$25,000 a year. so people understand that we can have a conversation about policing, but it can't end there. >> thank you so much. stay with us, if you will. >> absolutely. >> i feel loretta lynch immediates to go s toneeds to go to baltimore aendnd ensure the public that those expectations will be met. >> i agree. it really is it a good idea. >> sometimes things don't work and leadership is infect ineffective. >> george w. bush made the faulty assumption in katrina that local officials were going to take care of katrina in 2005. why why? because his brother did such a great job in 2004 taking care of three or four hurricanes in florida. he did. jeb was tough. and so bush assumed local

leadership was going to take care of things. they didn't. i think here we had enough evidence already that local leadership in baltimore, and it sounds tough but we're talking about people's lives we're talking about black small businesses that are on the front lines right now and families whose futures are on the line. i don't think we can let baltimore screw this up. >> would you have gone there? >> i don't think obama needs to go there. i think that's more of a distraction. >> you can send your attorney general. >> but somebody like loretta lynch, yes. i think most republicans that i talked to privately say she's tough, she's good she's competent. and if i were president, she would be the first person i would send there. >> what needs to happen is with a wes is talking about. after the cameras is gone and the riots are over and after

freddie gray's story has been moved to one side it's the question of what do you do about the massive disparity of income. you have bits of that city which are being rejuvenated. new commerce being built downtown. and this then you have other areas where people have an average income of $25,000. of course there will be problems. >> and i'll follow up. president obama said something this past week that was spot on. we sit here after the fact, we second guess cops, they go in. we don't see what happens 364 days out of the year when their lives are on the line. they're the worst of situations, they don't know if they will get home to their sons or daughters. president obama said earlier, and i don't have the exact words, but it was fantastic and cops appreciated him saying this, that police officers find themselves on the front lines and sometimes mistakes happen sometimes tragedies happen, sometimes they screw up.

because they are sent into the fray. and then they have to deal with the toxic mix of 50 years of income disparity. 50 years of social injustice. 50 years of severe poverty. 50 years of broken families. and time and time again, they go into the fray. and sometimes they make terrible mistakes, but as president obama says they're on the front lines and that's at the end of the day what has to be fixed. >> and city leadership let down the community and the cops. and at this point, what we have just mark my words and it's not hysterical media, we have a recipe for disaster. that's just the bottom line at this point. a recipe for disaster in baltimore unless a leader comes in and investigation takes place. still ahead on "morning joe," a teenage boy is pulled alive from the rubble five days after an earthquake kills more

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joining the table, biana went to the white house correspondents dinner and had a wild time. >> you should have seen my husband, peter. still don't know where he is. >> you can look at peter and you know he's a runaway -- you know this guy is looking for trouble. >> he'll kill me. >> did he do the lamp shade? >> no, not this year. >> for those that -- sort of like the iranian hostage crisis ted koppel, day 32. by the way, we are now we promise you, and we'll put a clock on this in the final two hours of the white house correspondents dinner. we expect to wind down by 9:30:009:30 or 10:00. >> don't set a date.

>> okay. tragic news out of nepal followed by a couple of positive stories. >> incredible rescues. but let's turn to nepal where the search for survivors continues days after the deadly earthquake. ly gelmiguel almaguer with a with rescue teams as they continued the search and he joins us live from kathmandu. miguel, tell us about what you saw. >> reporter: rescue crews from all across the globe pouring in for the reason we saw today, a miracle rescue that the entire city is rallying around. this is where the cry for help came from buried deep beneath massive pit of twisted copncrete and metal, the teen's withering voice finally heard by search teams. he's been here five days say

locals trapped inside a hotel. the los angeles rescue squad a block away with search dogs when get the call and scramble to assist. the rescue was fraught with danger. buildings everywhere here are on the brink of collapse. search teams will risk lives to save one. six perilous hours in to the rescue the 16-year-old boy pulled from the rubble carried away by the men and women who saved his life. how can you survive six days in those conditions? rushed to the hospital by ambulance, his injuries are said to be minor. the boy with two collapsed floors for 120 hours. >> floor after floor after floor. >> pancaked in between two

floors. >> so amazing that he was alive. >> reporter: this morning word of the incredible rescue is spread across the country, a symbolic win for a nation surrounded by so much loss. over the last 48 hours, there have been several rescues several to this one, the americans say that is why they are on the ground here that survivors can last for up to two week trapped in that rubble if they have any access to food or water and that's why today they are back out on the streets hookinghook ing looking for more. >> miguel almaguer, thank you so much. and take a look at this photo of a baby bipulled pulledboy pulled from the rubble alive. and remarkably uninjured. his face of course covered with dust. he's completely filthy. but completely alive anden injured. four months old. that is a miracle. >> you hear these stories about how resilient babies are at

surviving tragedy and disaster. >> is thatthat's amazing. coming up, will the solution come from within rather than those outside the city in we'll take a look at "time" magazine's special he had when we come back. and haven't for 35 years. with the hightest standard of animal care in the world, our whales are healthy. they're thriving. i wouldn't work here if they weren't. and government research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. and we take it very seriously. because we love them. and we know you love them too. appears buster's been busy. yeah, scott. i was about to use the uh. i've got a much better idea, lad! scotts ez seed uses the finest seed, fertilizer and natural mulch so you can grow grass anywhere! thanks, scott. ez seed really works! get scotts ez seed. it's guaranteed.

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joining us now editor of "time" magazine. he's here to reveal the cover story, america 2015 what has changed, what hasn't. and look at that 1968 crossed out because it looks exactly the same. the issue takes a look at this week's riots in baltimore and how decades of systemic failure there are to blame. you're looking at the roots of a

riot. what did "time" discover that you think habitsn't been put on the table yet? >> this really does go back 50 years. we've all been talking about the spasms in ferguson and north charleston in new york. and they're all prompted by policemen's conduct, but that's the result not the cause. the causes are much deeper, far more systemic and they are 50 years of income inequality and inequality of opportunity and those are the very same things that people were protest being and even rioting for 50 years ago. >> a lot of anger at the police department in baltimore, but could it be argued that given the bigger picture that you're laying out here that police have been put in a very bad situation? >> very much so. and i think that was actually the president's point which he made rather eloquently the other day.

would he have we've thrown the police into the front lines to deal with a host of problems that are not just a matter of criminal acts. they are there to try to solve a range of different social ills they may be i will equipll-equipped for. >> the department of justice is conducting its own independent investigation. i just wish we'd see presence there in baltimore. >> you you talk with how this is a ticking time bomb. as apn american immigrant, i think about the american dream in that perspective, but what we've lost perspective on is the american dream for people who have been here for a generations. we're focusing on immigrants what is great, but what about those here for decades that are suffering. >> and so many of what has happened in baltimore is born of a lack of opportunity. it's the drying up of industrial jobs, the economy that once sustained really strong middle class lives without advanced

education is all but gone. >> wes moore jump in. >> and i think, you're right, baltimore is not alone in all this. this is not a baltimore phenomenon. or ferguson or new york or charleston phenomenon. and you also have to incorporate the role of education has played. if you don't have a high school degree in baltimore, you have a better chance of spending the majority of your adult life in-carsin- incarcerated incarcerated. environmental and ploimtemployment shifts have happened. so when you are watching the massive disparity, you cannot separate them from what is happening on an education al framework, as well. >> you have an interview with the mayor and it says does it look like i'm having an easy time, her lead quote. her brother was stabbed? >> an attempted carjacking years

ago. even though she comes from a background where her moer mother was a doctor, she hasn't been immune to violence on the streets. her cousin was shot. i think this is j people were all the mored a larmed when she used the word thugs because it created a degree of distance that she really could not have afforded. >> thank you. the new issue of "time" is on news stands now. up next it's more than 20 years since former president bill clinton signed the largest crime bill in history into law. why he's now issuing an apology of sorts for the landmark legislation. the lowest corporate tax rate since 1968. we eliminated the income tax on manufacturers altogether. with startup-ny, qualified businesses that start, expand or relocate to new york state pay no taxes for 10 years. all to grow our economy and create jobs. see how new york can give your business the opportunity to grow

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senators as disparate on the political spectrum as cory booker and rand paul and mike lee are reaching across the aisle to find ways to work together. it is rare to see democrats and republicans agree on anything today. but we're beginning to agree on this. >> so that was hillary clinton speaking yesterday at columbia university and talking about why lawmakers from both parties now feel like it's a time for criminal justice reform. and we're seeing this not just among the politicians, but obviously famously charles koch has been out there doing this for quite some time. and a lot of big time liberals have been associated with the left teaming up with charles right now. this is an idea whose time has come. >> let's hope it becomes a campaign issue. joining us now president of the brennan center for justice, michael waldman, co-author of a number of essays. you can believe the authors in

here. seriously, every single one. biden, cory booker, chris trisity,tris ity christy, mike huckabee, marco rubio -- >> i'll tell you this, i always- always -- i'll get killed because every time i say this phrase, i get yelled out. when i was in congress first time i've said it in three weeks, but there would be -- republicans, democrats would kill each other, but there would be these meetings where conservatives/libertarians like me would show up and it would be like the head of the aclu and we would go why are we both in the same meetings. and it was centering around issues like this criminal justice reform. what is it about this issue that brings both sides together? >> it's really interesting. both sides are coming together for their own reasons. there is the social justice voice that you hear a lot from progressives there is a real

libertarian and evangelical approach brought to it by conservatives. and part of the phenomenon is the problem ensince theven since the '90s has gotten so big, massive incarceration has grown so much since then that now it's something that people are coming together on. >> one thing that we didn't see in the mid-90s you look at those faces up there, the one who may not have -- actually mike wood because he's that way. but evangelical weren't there. it was more of the libertarians. but i remember pat robertson coming out maybe in the late '90s saying i'm having trouble with the death penalty thousand because of my christianity, also because of my concerns about the state not applying it evenly. you are right, evangelicals are now also putting their voice behind this. >> so one of the things that i think is very important, there is a new consensus as you said we got help recruiting these

authors for this book from the heritage found daysation and koch industries. there is a new focus, but what are the solutions. and what is encouraging there are a lot of interesting ideas that the leaders have put forward. first of all, so many of them talk about the problem as being overcriminalization and overincarceration. and that's a very big breakthrough. as you know we have 5% of the world's population, 25% of the world's prison population, and you don't need to incarcerate so many people. >> you talk to leaders of the aclu or charles koch they will both say, wait why are you sending people to jail for possession of marijuana, small possession of marijuana? for a lot of people the drug laws just seem crazy. >> and it's a big sourlgsce of the racial imbalance, also. the statistic that blows me away is the idea that african-american young men are eight times more likely to be arrested for mayorrijuana

possession even though marijuana usage is the same. so the system folds in on itself. and we don't want to have this be a moment that is very exciting where there is this consensus but then nothing happens. so we should be asking all these folks to compete and say hey, here is my idea and -- >> you you talk about the motivations. you look at the fact that kids that go to jail are far less likely to graduate from high school, people talking ways to address that too. the hillary campaign talks about the cost of incarceration. was that a motivating factor perhaps that money can be spent more productively early in life? >> i think for a lot of them absolutely. the cost is very significant. and if you think about keeping that many people in prison, it's expensive to keep people in prison. if you added up all the people in prison in the united states it would be the 36th largest state. that's -- >> add up -- >> if you added up all the people actually locked up in

prison, it would be the 36th largest state. >> in the u.s.. >> in the united states. >> that's one way of looking at it. >> i worked for president clinton in the white house and -- >> hey we've talked about him. since we've used his name in vain, today on the air we should also say he offers i don't know if you'd call it an apology of sorts, but certainly second thoughts about the 1994 crime bill. >> a rethink. as he says crime was an actual crisis back then. it wasn't just imagined. this was devastating communities. he says in his forward of it has had these unintended consequences of locking up a whole generation so it's a rethink by him and a reset for a lot of people. >> you can say the pendulum swung far too much in the other direction and the u.s. has become an outlier when you compare the u.s. to the rest of the world. we have five times more number of people behind bars than other rich countries.

seven out of every 1,000 people in the u.s. are in prison. >> right. and obviously this isn't a secret but it's been happening in front of all of our eyes for a long time and we didn't really all focus on it until recently. so that's one of the things that's so encouraging. this used to be a wedge issue and now it's a consensus issue. >> wes moor is in baltimore. wes? >> i think we have to look at it from twofold. you have the issue of mass incarceration but then i think we have the issue of reentry. i was asked if you could speak briefly about that because the truth is 95% of people who are currently incarcerated are coming out. only 5% are there for either life or very very long sentences. how are we thinking better about issues of employment and job bases and training while people are in prison as well particularly for the ones who will be coming out in relatively short order? >> the book is "solutions: american leaders speak out on criminal justice." michael waldman -- >> michael, thank you, come

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these senseless acts of violence are not only a grave danger to community and they must stop but they are also counterproductive to the ultimate goal here which is developing a respectful conversation within the baltimore community and across the nation about the way our law

enforcement officers interact with the residents that we are charged to serve and to protect. >> loretta lynch on the situation here. up next, the "washington post" reports that freddie gray may have been banging against the walls of a police van and trying to hurt himself. it's -- it sounds ridiculous to say. why that report is facing criticism. >> and, by the way, that report was give on the the "washington post" by somebody inside the police department so it's not the "washington post" -- they're just reporting. >> no i know. >> they're just reporting what others -- i just wonder if you and howard dean are now going after the "washington post." harold ford, by the way, "washington post." put him on your list because harold ford's going after you with howard dean. another day, another story about questionable donations to the clinton foundation. why did the group fail to identify more than a thousand different donors? we'll be right back. unbelievable! toenail fungus? seriously? smash it with jublia! jublia is a prescription medicine

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. >> it's time to go. please i beg you. i'm not asking i'm begging. it's very important that we keep the peace. we've got to keep the peace. we've got to keep the peace. we're proud of baltimore, we are a great city. we are a great city. we are a peaceful city. we are a peaceful city. >> congressman elijah cummings last night on the streets of baltimore moments before the second night of a city-wide curfew took effect. things are once again relatively calm in baltimore last night. police reporting 16 arrests during largely peaceful protests. >> and up to 101 people that were arrested during the violent

protests and looting on monday are now free because they were not charged in time because of a paperwork backlog. >> and the demonstrations over the unexplained death of freddie gray while in police custody spread to cities across the country. in new york city more than 1,000 people hit the streets to show solidarity with protesters in baltimore. some clashes broke out as police with riot helmets and batons tried to break up the protests. >> and smaller demonstrations also took place in locations across the city bringing traffic to a halt. some protesters blocked the entrance of the holland tunnel as others marched on lower manhattan in times square. >> nbc news has confirmed that more than 100 people are facing charges after being arrested. so far, no injuries have been reported for protesters or police officers. so a lot going on. we have caddy kaye here harold ford, jr., and howard dean is in d.c. we'll continue right there because there is a new report

this morning that's adding to the uncertainty about what led to freddie gray's death while in police custody. today's "washington post" story -- not confirmed by nbc news -- centers on a document said to have been written by a police investigator. a prisoner in the van in the police van purportedly says he heard gray banging against the walls and "intentionally trying to injure himself." that prisoner could not see gray because they were separated by a partition. but jane miller, the investigative reporter for our baltimore affiliate reported even before gray's death that there is no evidence to back up that claim. she says an autopsy only showed a spinal cord injury for gray and that there could have been additional injuries if he banged his own head. in addition she says the police commissioner recently stated the prisoner's ride in the police van was calm and quiet and sources tell miller that gray was unresponsive when the second prisoner was picked up.

interesting that that part of the police report was released. i have a lot of questions about it, too. >> yeah i don't -- again, this goes back to us not knowing what went on inside that van, not knowing exactly what happened, when he received the injury that he received and not to be simple-minded but it goes back to the fact that there weren't cameras on the police officers. there need to be body cams on every police officer. we wouldn't be having these disputes. i suspect five years ago we're going to look back and ask what the hell were we doing for so long that we could have questions that are easily answered when you put body cameras on every cop. >> this comes as a -- before baltimore police announced that they are not going to release all the findings of their investigation because a lot of this is that the public and the protests that you're seeing in the street is because people would like some answers. >> they did release that part. >> that part just that part. that's so unbelievably unhelpful at this point. joining us now from baltimore, nbc news national correspondent peter alexander.

peter, any word as to when we'll get a full report? >> it's a good question. first following up on what you were saying about the "washington post" report, we spent much of yesterday in west baltimore and late last night even after the information came out from the "washington post." you won't be surprised to hear many people in that community were disbelieving. they did not believe this new account from the "washington post." separately, in terms of what we get, the full investigation going forward, we heard for the first time yesterday from the spokesperson for police about this specific detail because so many people let's be clear, throughout this community have been anticipating friday would be the day that the police investigation would be released. so here's the spokesperson as well as a member of the community, the pastor jamal bryant. >> we have an obligation to be accountable to the people of baltimore in this investigation. we know there are a lot of people who want answers, who have concerns they want to have addressed and we have an obligation to do our best to be accountable. we can not release all of the

investigation to the public because there f the states attorney's office charges the integrity of that information has to be protected. so by turning these documents, our findings over to the state's attorney's office as quickly as we can we are being accountable to them so we can be accountable to the public. >> i've spent most of the morning going to high schools because there's a rumor going through high schools that somehow or another there's a verdict on friday. so it is our responsibility to make sure that misinformation is corrected and so the community is going to stand in lockstep on friday so that we do not have a repeat of what it is that we saw on monday. it is our allegiance to the community that the world is going to see a better baltimore than what we saw on monday night. >> again that was the pastor jamal bryant explaining the fact that many people throughout this community, certainly in community where freddie gray is from and where he died believed this friday would be the day

that either justice was served or information was released. they wanted arrest they wanted indictments but yesterday mika and joe, we spent the day sitting on the stoop outside a dilapidated prot withperty with a couple holding their granddaughter in their arms, her name is neveah that's heaven backwards. they said if there's not information with this community could hear we fear it's a ticking time bomb. >> ticking time bomb. let me just confirm this. is this police investigating themselves, peter? >> this is the first investigation being done by the police investigating themselves that they will hand over to the state attorney's office the prosecutors, to complete. and as you heard from the spokesperson, they don't want to get involved in the process and release more details before the investigation. but a lot of people here are not satisfied. >> peter alexander, thank you very much. i'm not satisfied. i don't really at this point

think the police should be investigating themselves. does anyone want to chime in? at this point given what has happened in baltimore, a city that can't even have a baseball game. >> but if this is the protocol police begin the investigation, to believe that's where it would start initially. the curiosity siff if the community is waiting from this from an optics standpoint why would you release this is a expect of the report only or -- >> well, it was leaked. >> well, we know what leaks are about and where those things come from that leak did happen not try to share and shed more light and say look don't believe any leaks until the report comes out. i applaud that pastor. i'm glad to see the pastor and the mayor. i thought the mayor got unfairly criticized because people thought she exercised too much restraint. i think the opposite she exercised more action and perhaps has been more aggressive if worst things had happened. what i applaud now is what they're doing. what she's doing now and the leadership particularly the re

religious community is smart. i think what peter is hearing from his reporting could unfortunately be true and we'll be back here on monday having another ugly conversation. >> we remember from ferguson exactly this happened. people were waiting for reports and reports got delayed and on the nights reports were released we saw an outburst of violence. they have to be careful about building up expectations. >> but, again, i just wonder if people across our country as we deal with issues of potential police brutality ought to be looking and doing things differently at this point. howard dean do you think the police should be investigating themselves at this point or should a separate above set of investigators come in and take a look at what went down in baltimore? >> that is what should happen and there's a very interesting bill suggested by the attorney general in new york eric

schneiderman who believed as in the case of staten island with eric garner and others that you cannot have states attorneys investigating the police obviously police investigating the police is a big problem. state's attorneys and police officers work together every single day in order to maintain order and bring people to court so it's as if you're investigating your own colleagues and you can't do it. it shouldn't be done in any state and this has got to be fixed but it has to be fixed legally by legislatures all over the country. >> you and i agreetd on this after the eric garner thing was going on. you agreed. you said you may have to have a -- >> there's no doubt. the police officers and the state attorney 's the -- they're always on the same side. i mean you've got the public defenders fighting all the time, public defenders always fight the state's attorneys and the cops so for anybody that doesn't know the legal system they may think well, you know, the state's attorneys they're like the arbiter of justice and have a blindfold on with the scales.

no no they're prosecutors. their job is to prosecute and their closest allies 365 days out of the year are cops because cops come and try to get bad people off the street and they work together time and time again and, you know sometimes the bad people they get off the street aren't even bad. sometimes people go to jail that shouldn't go to jail but that's the alliance. so to have them investigating cops is just absolute insanity. it's a rigged game and it always has been. >> cops have a hard job, it takes an emotional toll on themselves and their families they put themselves in danger everyday, there are so many good cops out there. >> overwhelming majority of them are. >> but the deck is stacked for them to protect each other. i wouldn't believe anything that came out on friday if it did. if i were a member of that community i would be insulted. >> and if you look at the polls showing the difference in

confidence in our police forces between minorities and whites in this country, part of the reason that black americans don't trust the system is because they don't trust that the police are held accountable. they don't believe this system is unbiased. >> and mike it can be fixed pretty simply. i'm not knocking state's attorneys any more than i'm knocking -- it would be like me investigating you or you investigating me on something. i'm not knocking them at all, they're just on the same side. there's an inherent conflict of interest and it serves neither side very well. we need to set up as howard is saying, an independent investigative group and every state, every justduction to investigate when something like this happens. >> i think due to what's happened in ferguson and what happened in south carolina i think eventually you are going to have independent investigators in looking at police-involved shootings. this was not a police-involved

shooting. i've got to assume that the way the system works in baltimore county is that there is probably a county prosecutor working with police as they investigate what happened with freddie gray in the back of that van. the larger investigation after that. but i have to tell you, i don't think i'm the only one, i can't imagine being a resident of baltimore city i'm confused by this whole story. have they released the autopsy report yet? i don't think they have. an autopsy report you can get within a couple days. not toxicology toxicology takes a while, i get that. but an autopsy report. how did he -- >> and while we talk about the mayor who bungled this horribly from the very start this is the next challenge. hold her city government accountable. why has the autopsy not been released several days later? >> three weeks. >> and are we going to have -- three weeks. are we going to have another

explosion and then like the middle of the next week the mayor's going to say "well, maybe we should release it." howard dean why does it takes three weeks to release an autopsy? shouldn't city officials look in the rear-view mirror and see what happens in these communities that are so put upon when they feel like government and the police department is dragging their feet? >> it's very -- the question about the autopsy is very interesting and i have absolutely no idea why they haven't done that. let me make a larger point, though. this is not the same as ferguson. obviously race is an issue in all of this stuff, but half of the police force in baltimore is black. >> and the "washington post" said yesterday, howard, in baltimore police this isn't about race so much as it is class divide. >> well that's exactly the point. that's a really good point. it's also about race of course. but in baltimore there has not been a lot of progress in the last 40 years. if you go to these

neighborhoodsen and they look like north philadelphia which is another area where there hasn't been a lot of progress. a lot of this is about economic depravation and dropping the ball, this is not stephanie rawlings-blake's fault. investment has not been made in these neighborhoods, unlike brooklyn, for example, which is coming back, washington, d.c., which is coming back. there are a lot of cities in this -- even detroit now with this bankruptcy process is beginning to come back. that needs to happen in baltimore and philadelphia you're right, this is about economic deprivation, tax breaks for people who make a million dollars a year instead of tax credits for people who are develop neighborhoods like this. we have a fundamental question in america that nobody is talking about. we're all talking about freddie gray, we ought to be talking about the problems in these neighborhoods, lousy schools, that's the kind of stuff -- >> top to bottom. exactly. >> so here's what we have in baltimore right now. we have a response that was slow the national guard that

was not called in on time luckily they got ready themselves even though city officials waited too long for call them in. but they at least had the wherewithal to start preparing so it took them three hours to finally get there once they were enacted. we have a police department investigating itself after a young man died of a spinal cord injury inside a police van, an injury he received either in that van or before in police custody. we have an autopsy report being handled by the state medical examiner who says that the report -- the preliminary report will be available as soon as possible and it will take weeks for the official report to come out. >> why? >> what's wrong here? and when at some point does someone else step in? >> at least the preliminary autopsy report would show us whether freddie gray had injuries on his head. whether he had something that could have resulted from him banging his head against the partition wall in the van, right? >> we could have that now. >> it could answer that

question. >> well, what it answers -- what an autopsy report does is it answers cod, "cause of death." >> there's no reason why this should take three weeks for the official report. and if i'm a resident of baltimore, if i'm from freddie gray's neighborhood i'm going to be really really -- >> how long does it taken a autopsy report to come? at least we'd have a benchmark. i can't imagine it takes three weeks. still ahead on "morning joe," more questions emerging about foreign donations to the clinton foundation. why did the group keep the names of more than 1,000 donors secret. plus a check with what's driving on wall street. michelle caruso cabrera joins us well as austan goolsbee. well, did you know that game show hosts should only host game shows? samantha, do you take kevin as your lawfully wedded husband... or would

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so the book "clinton cash"

which we had the author on this week is laying the ground work for yet more reporting on secret donations to the clinton foundation. questions were raised and different news organizations are looking into it. according to the "washington post," the identities of more than 1,000 people who gave money remain hid on the the public despite a 2008 ethics agreement with the obama administration that said the former president's organization would disclose sources of funding while hillary clinton served as secretary of state. >> and let me say before you go on. you were asking the question are there any violations. well, the "washington post" is reporting there are 1,100 starting right there. start at 1,100, that's your baseline then move on from there. >> i'm also trying to find out, what does it mean they had to disclose. does that mean the white house

could say "no, you can't do this one" or they just had to tell them? i don't know. we're still working on getting those answers. howard, do you have the answer? >> the canadian foundation has given money to the clinton foundation and that's been disclosed. under canadian law, the donors to the canadian foundation are not required to disclose. so as usual this is a breathless piece of hot air over this breathless -- >> or actually it's good reporting by the "washington post" because this really isn't about canadian law, this is about a decision that was made by hillary clinton when she agreed to be secretary of state that she was going to reveal the sources of donations. >> that's right. but -- >> so we're not -- >> but the canadians have no obligation to do that and she has no authority in canada to force canadians to reveal their donations. >> this is not breathless reporting. this stems from bill clinton's tie tosca aid innian mining

financier. we have this reporting from bloomberg are noting that some canadian attacks in privacy law experts are saying that claim put forward by bill clinton's good canadian friend and his organization actually may not be accurate. now the charity is contacting contributors who gave six-figure donations in hopes that they'll sign off on letting their identities go public. mike you wanted to say something. >> governor, quickly, as someone who has -- i think you formerly endorsed hillary clinton's candidacy for president, if not you're close to doing it. >> i have. >> wouldn't you advise her, despite what you may think or what the news contends wouldn't you advise her to address this at some point? they are awash in money stories. >> i think there's not much to these stories, honestly and i would not advise her to do that. i really do this -- this is a

bad -- this is bad press. this is pack journalism. i know you guys strongly disagree with me. i think it's the press at its worst. every time there's a big allegation and you drill down and then find out there's not much truth to it or incredible distortion to it. nobody seriously thinks the law has been broken in any way here. >> that's just not true howard. >> i think it is true. >> no it's not. and i think if you -- we don't know yet. i know a lot of politicians are sitting in jail for doing what appeared to be at the beginning of an investigation into their conduct a lot less. i no something else howard and we'll move on and i'll let you talk as we bring in other people i know you would never do this and i know most other politicians would never do this. i know you would never, ever allow there to be an appearance of impropriety. we disagree on a lot of political issues. you would never, ever do something that would allow members of your family to make millions of dollars from interests that had business before the state of vermont at

the time that you were governor. the clintons have a hard time drawing those lines and i think they've gotten the, they've always been too clever by half. i think this time they've got a lot of explaining to do and if you look at past precedent, mika, just over the past several years, if you look at bob menendez's case, if you look at bob mcdonald's case these are questions that have to be raised because people are sitting in jail for doing so much less. >> howard would you do this? >> i think this is a ridiculous investigation. >> that's my answer. >> you don't even know all the things that are out there and you're already dismissing it. can i say this? i am really glad we have a new england version of james carville because sometimes i just don't understand what he's saying. [ laughter ] >> i mean he goes -- does a billy goat go after a crocodile? no. so i don't know what the new england version of that is but that's like chases a hockey puck

up -- >> i think the mainstream media is in a frep zi over a right wing book by the same company that owns the publisher. >> this is nonsense. >> there niece's no "there" there. >> you can't say there's no "there" there when the investigations haven't begun. harold? >> the thing that i think is unfair about what you're saying is that there's not been one thing shown there was anything illegal done. there have been donations made to the clinton global initiative efforts and understand cgi does incredible work across the world, whether you support the initiatives --. for themselves and for others. i agree with you. >> not to benefit themselves but the people who -- children and women and families. >> bill clinton, though, has dealed involved in all of this he benefits himself to the tune of $150 million, harold. >> joe, but you can't make these kind of connections unless -- >> that's why you have an investigation. >> you just said they released

1,100 infractions because names were not revealed. >> the "washington post" said that not me. >> but -- >> you can use that -- >> you used that as evidence. >> is the "washington post" -- oh, wait here's the "washington post." now that they're going after the clinton wes throw that away, is that what you're saying? >> of course not. >> draw up the conclusion on me. >> the "new york times" drew up the claims we'll throw that away. >> joe then you tied them to mcdonnel and menendez. that's not fair. >> what did i say? >> if there was an investigation -- >> what i said was -- >> i think it's unfair to draw those comparisons. >> you can keep saying it all you want to or you can let me tell you what i actually said and we have a tape so you can go back and look at the tape. what i said was if you look at all of the information that we have at this point of the story and compare it to all the information we had in bob menendez's case in new jersey that we have right now at the beginning of that or bob nay's

story years ago in congress who got thrown in jail for putting something on the house floor because he went golfing in scotland with abramoff or if you look at let's say, bob mcdonald who got a rolex watch and a couple of other things and his big offense was he held a reception in the virginia governor's mansion for a diet supplement and he's going to jail. we're talking about people making millions of dollars and changing their position on nuclear issues involving india and i would say -- >> this is ridiculous. >> it's ridiculous. you don't know the story, howard. >> i've read the story. this is a ridiculous story. there's no evidence whatsoever. >> look at this. look what's going on here. this is fantastic! they don't even want to get to the politico story. >> joe, you are making this up. this is like saying algeria was on the terrorist list for god's sakes.

come on here. >> i want everybody to look what's happening an this is why i love the internet. howard dean has just pulled out -- this is what the clintons are doing now. a couple of days ago i accidentally said on the air -- but i said i wasn't sure. i read a report we do a three hour show and we're bombarded with information all the time so i said a couple days ago, i said now i think the deal was they get all of this money and then algeria was on the terror list and then i think there's -- the allegations are that the state department may have taken them off after they made this money and i think bill clinton made a speech but i'm not sure. the clintons and media matters and politifact came out and said "joe scarborough is dead wrong, false claim, false claim." >> joe, you have an obligation not to say stuff like this on a very popular morning show. >> can you actually let me finish, because i know where i'm going. >> i will if you let me finish once in a while. >> we will. >> you go ahead after i tell you.

this is what they do. they don't want you to get a sentence out because the fact is -- and i apologized on twitter -- i'm so sorry because actually they weren't taken off the terror list that's not what the state department changed. there were horrible human rights violations that may have been whitewashed. and this is the clintons' big defense, that i talked about a terror list instead of horrible human rights abuses. and so now they're going, oh well, it's a false claim." okay, so i got it wrong. it was about gross horrible human rights violations that may have been whitewashed by the state department instead of a terror list. and this is the great defense. >> coming up next police officers and sergeants from around the country come together for an extraordinary conversation as departments across the u.s. are under scrutiny. we'll look at the top concerns when we come back. ♪ ♪ ♪

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yesterday at this time on "morning joe" we reported on the gdp numbers showing the economy ground to a near halt in the first few months this year and joining us now we have cnbc chief international correspondent michelle caruso-cabrera along with the former chairman of the economic of advisors now a professor of economics, austan goolsbee. good to have you with us on board. austan i'll ask you and

michelle the same question and bianna, chime in. what do you look at as a significant reliable indicator that the economy is moving or stalled out and then how would you characterize the state of the economy. michelle first? >> i think gdp is -- it's got its issues for sure. every single piece of government data because there's always arguments about the way statistics are gathered and blah blah blah but it is consistent over time, at least relative from one quarter to the other so when we get a weak gdp number it tells us the economy is weak. now, this particular time around there's a conundrum because we're in a unique place. the price of oil falling so much normally something that's really great for the united states now that we're big producersover oil, is having a negative effect and the big conundrum is even though consumers have more money in their pockets, we don't knowsly see them spending that money from the saved gasoline yet. and we're going to see is there something wrong, are they worried abouting? do they think it's not quite

permanent. so there's a lot of asterisks around this point. >> austan i want to ask you, another different of ours has done a paper researching over the past few years where we've seen the decline in the first quarter. he's written it that you have this isn't something necessarily to worry about going forward. the fed also described this as basically transitory. they're still expected to raise rates before the end of the year. what are your thoughts? >> look, this number stunk up the joint. there's no question about that but it followed on some numbers that were pretty good. i think what you've got growing is there are a group of economists especially at the fed, justin himself is not usually like this but there are a number of people who keep wanting to say "we've turned the corner and now we're going back to normal" and implicitly they're defining 2006 as what was normal and that's what wasn't normal and we're not going back to that. as i say, if you're sitting and waiting for the 2006 bus to come back and pick you up you're

really hitchhiking. you just don't know that yet. >> austan, what's the new normal? is 2% the new normal? 2.5%? 3%? >> we will get back to higher growth rates, i just think in the immediate term what has to happen is we're not going to shift back to predominantly consumer spending and residential investment, building houses being the two main drivers of growth. >> as far as recoveries go in the past year you had have-shaped recovery where you'd fly high then go down low then fly high a couple years later then bubble busts. are we looking more like japan over the next decade? are we looking more like being excited about 2.5% growth? >> look i don't think -- longer term i don't think so. i think we'll get back to the kinds of growth that we had before it's just we won't we'll go from v-shaped to u-shaped to

now greek letter shaped to describe the recovery because everybody's wanting us to go back to what we were doing before and we're not going to. i think michelle is right. if you look -- the puzzle is why aren't consumers spending. i think the answer is because they found out if you spend 102% of your income bad things happen. that's what happened in 2008. >> that's true. >> mike if only it were 102%. >> you raised the question question that we ask ad nauseam all day long on cnbc, what is the new normal and are we becoming japan? it's the core question that the federal reserve faces right now and what they should do and it's important because to live more than ten years with with barely any growth is to have a terrible terrible economy. like japan has suffered through. >> so michelle, what happens on wall street? what happens on wall street if the fed does raise interest rates? what kind of stocks if any, take

off? what kinds of stocks if any, plunge if they raise the rate? >> generally speaking you have what are called interest-sensitive stocks and not interest-sensitive stocks and interest-sensitive stocks -- if a stock has a dividend and provides you with a certain amount of income, a certain percentage every year, if interest rates start to go up and you could buy a u.s. government bond that actually competes with it and it's theoretically safer, then interest-sensitive stocks tend to get hurt right? so those tend to sell off. things like utilities, anything that pays a big dividend is something that's likely to fall. but here's the thing -- just because the fed raises rates -- remember, the fed only controls the overnight rate. it's a tiny little interest rates. the rates we all talk about all day long that affect mortgage rates are what's traded on the markets when you see all those guys waving their arms in chicago. they control long-term rates and they have fallen when people thought they were supposed to go up. >> bianna? >> last question austan you

were talking about the greek-shaped letter recovery. you were joking but talking about the global market what does the debt crisis in greece and slowdown in china and the rest of the global markets have on us here? >> well i appreciate you took my joke and turned it into something real. i think one of the things putting a drag on the short run in the u.s. as lame as it seems, as modest as our recovery we're the fastest growing country in the advanced world. europe is circling the event horizon of the black hole and even in asia they've slowed way down. i think what's coming out of greece has this groundhog day perennial problem crisis barely fixed just put it off then six months later we're back in the same one. >> i think this professor thing is working for austan.

>> you can't get into his classes, i've heard. >> he's all into pearing things down and alliterations and metaphors. it's good. very -- what's the board? >> erudite. >> erudite! >> that's not what i was thinking. austan goolsbee thank you. he's got a little less nerd factor going on. >> totally cool. >> everybody wants to be in his class. young voters were one of the key voting groups that helped elect president obama in 2008 in 2012 but they went for republicans in last year's midterms. which way are millennials leaning -- >> why are you laughing at that? it makes a lot of sense for young people to want to keep more that have their paycheck. >> i was speaking as if i smelled something bad. we have the new numbers from harvard next.

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joining us now, director of polling at harvard university's institute of politics john dela volpe. he has a poll about millennials and politics. >> this is a remarkable poll, mika. >> let's get through it. we'll get to body cameras in a second. young people are leaning right? no. it can't be. >> less likely to lean left. >> what? >> let me give you a quick stat. in 2007, at this point in the 2008 campaign, on college campuses there were three times as many liberals as conservatives. today same point in this campaign liberals win but only by a seven-point margin. >> that's fascinating. >> the headline, though, is they're much more likely to vote democratic in 2016. at the same time, you're telling us stuff off of a rise in young people supporting the bush doctrine, a rise in boots on the ground, a rise in all these things we find very surprising. >> the reason it's surprising i think, is we all think about

this generation as what happened in 2008 right? and that's a long time ago. a majority of this people in this 18 to 29-year-old demographic didn't vote in 2008. they came of age less around 9/11 and more about the great recession. and gridlock and partisanship and just beginning to think about things differently. >> 57% of 18 to 29-year-olds support ground troops against isis. i was saying this reminds me of when i was in high school and ronald reagan burst on to the scene. all these young people from liberal families were like "yeah, we should go after iran." >> democrats and republicans by a majority. >> that's stunning. >> was there a follow-up question. how many of them would serve. [ laughter ] seriously. >> no, there wasn't mike but we have seen though, in other research that we've done that kind of the interest in joining the military has continued to rise a little bit. people want to serve. we didn't ask the follow-up, but we will in the spring. >> do you think there's linkage between the feeling that as you put it people are leaning less left than before and the job

market available to them. >> what's interesting about that the is 75% or among college students think it's going to be very or somewhat difficult to get a job after graduation. however, there's still a hint of optimism that they'll be better off than their parents. >> that's great. >> so we're redefining what it means to be happy. >> we keep hearing more and more about polarization in society today. are you seeing that in your research as far as them leaning heavily one direction or the other? >> we have seen actually, a rise in the polarization where democrats are more democratic republicans are more republican over the last four or five years, without question. >> and yet, though you have on defense again things that shock us that almost 60% want boots on the ground? and yet the overwhelming majority are going to vote democratic. >> 55 -- so when we did a generic ballot test 55% indicated a preferred democrat to win, 40% prefer a republican to win.

putting that into context, obama won with 66% of this vote right, in 2008. so this looks to me the way kerry/bush was in '04. >> but we had you near in 2014 and then majority of young voters wanted republicans to win. >> it was more of a tossup. and i still think -- >> it was four points. >> i think this is in play. >> i guess that was such a surprise at a time that it came out that republicans were even in the same ballpark. >> and obviously midterm versus presidential -- >> something that's so relevant looking at baltimore and ferguson is that when you look at the confidence of the justice system, not much or none 49%. >> incredibly disturbing among everybody. there are 53 million young people between 18 to 29. half of them have it will to no confidence. asking african-americans two-thirds of them have little to know. >> and 80% want body cameras, am i right? >> in fact students not only to ask about what people think but they want to find solutions within the survey. 80% want body cameras, 60%

thought it would be effective to change the racial demographics of the force. >> what do you find if you pull the cross-tabs where the younger people apparently feel a little bit more optimistic about their own future than their parents feel? the parents when you ask say, you know i don't think things will be better for my kids than they were for me and the kids seem to be saying "i think we're going to be okay." the. >> kids have this resounding sense of still optimism in the country, as difficult as today is there's still the sense of optimism and it's getting more optimistic over the last year which is great. one of the most striking numbers was we look at approval for the white house and president obama, hispanic americans increased their approval rating by 16 points since the last poll. immigration, executive order had a lot to do with that. >> john della volpe, come back soon. this is great. up next what do rank-and-file officers think of the series of controversial deaths involving police. nbc's kate snow convenes a special round table next.

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that flows through all things... through rocky spires... [♪] and ocean's swell... [♪] the endless... stillness of green... [♪] and in the restless depths of human hearts... [♪] the voice of the wild within. we often hear from top officials from police departments in crisis but what do rank-and-file officers make of the wave of controversial deaths involve law enforcement? nbc's kate snow sat down with seven officers and sergeants from around the country -- los angeles, houston, milwaukee, charlottesville, virginia and trenton, new jersey. take a look. >> if you had one word to

describe the relationship between the public and the police force? >> i would say skeptical. >> i'd say strained. >> strained. >> misunderstand. >> people are looking at us a whole lot closer today than they were before. >> you all see what happens when these incidents get put on television. does it make you reluctant to pull your weapons sometimes? >> no. >> not at all. >> people have to know that no officer that i know that i've talked to over 20 years wakes up in the morning and wants to shoot an unarmed black teen or anybody for that matter. we have kids we can relate. but our job is as unpredictable as humanity is. >> reporter: they worry about the rush to judgment after a cell phone video comes out. >> with social media, they're acting as the judge, jury executioner without having information or letting the investigation take its course. >> reporter: are you all in favor of body cameras? >> yes. >> up. >> i am. >> reporter: because it shows everything? >> and it will show our side of it. >> reporter: this is a tricky question to ask. but do you feel judged because

of your skin color sometimes? >> no more than anybody else. and actually -- i don't know if anybody else wants to comment on that but some spheres, some black officers in our department tell me they have bigger issues going into some of these communities -- >> exactly. >> they're labelled as betrayers. >> or -- he hit the nail right on the head. when we go to incidents where a male black, female black is the suspect or they've been shot we take the brunt of that from our own society. i've been called everything from traitor, uncle tom. >> reporter: what do you do to diffuse that. >> most times i ignore it. a lot of times i realize it's because they're angry that they're lashing out at me. >> back up! >>. >> go back! >> no no no. >> reporter: what would you say to the angry voices out there? >> channel your anger. channel it. channel it for something positive. help us. help us help you.

>> i do sympathize with the cops across the country but even police officers rank-and-file in baltimore i think have been put in a terrible positionally leadership and it must be almost impossible to be able to work effectively. >> what an important package by kate snow talking to all those cops. >> hearing from the cops. >> we see cops, you know they protect -- >> they are mothers and fathers. they have children. >> they've been through this. >> i'd like to see a survey of school children in baltimore, in ferguson, who when we were going to schoolboys and girls wanted to be firemen and police officers when they grow up. i want to know how many of these children say they want to be a police officer. i think that's systemic with the bigger problem at hand. >> no doubt about it. it's -- again, you look at what kate did with this round table. we need to talk to police officers a lot more. >> so we have the department of justice doing their own

independent investigation on what's going on into baltimore. we're awaiting word from a police investigation or at least the report on what happened to come out in the coming days or weeks, not friday necessarily the state's attorney's office is looking into it. the only hope is that baltimore can keep the calm now throughout this process. >> it's been a great show. i think what we've learned today is that sometimes it's hard to keep the calm around the set. >> well, that happens. totally different. >> you get a little excited. no, it was a great show. >> bianna thank you very much. "the rundown" picks things up after a quick break right here on msnbc. thank you for being a sailor, and my daddy. thank you mom, for protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are thankful for many things. the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. our world-class service earned usaa the top spot in a study of the most recommended

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we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today. good morning, i'm jose diaz-balart. right now on "the rundown," baltimore has another quiet night but the frustration and anger over freddie gray's death are fuelling new protests in city from coast to coast. look at these pictures, from washington to texas to san diego demonstrators hitting the streets, some clashing with police. in new york more than 100 arrests were reported. in baltimore, high school and college students held peaceful marches during the day. after the 10:00 curfew came and went the streets mostly empty but officials in charm city are afraid things could get worse when the police department's internal report is handed over to the state investigators.

that happens tomorrow. and we're getting a glimpse of what may be in there. this morning, the "washington post" reports that a sealed baltimore police document not seen by nbc news quotes an unnamed prisoner who shared the van with gray telling investigators he heard gray banging against the walls of the van saying he believed gray was intentionally trying to injure himself. however, the prisoner could not see freddie gray because they were separated by