watching. "now with alex wagner." she starts right now. senator bernie sanders is in it to win it in 2016. "charlie hebdo" is back at the center of controversy and the supreme court justices get in a heated debate about the death penalty. but first, new details about the arrest of freddie gray. it's thursday april 30th and this is "now." major marches are set to begin at any moment in baltimore. the demonstrations come just hours after baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake sounded defiant at the national action network. >> i know we have problems. and i was determined to fix them. we will get justice for freddie gray, believe you me we will give you justice. we're going to work together because if with the nation watching, three black women at three different levels can't get justice and healing for this community, you tell me where we're going to get it in our

country. >> shortly before that the baltimore police announced they have completed their initial investigation into the death of freddie gray who 25-year-old baltimore man suffered fatal injuries in police custody earlier this month. >> this does not mean that the investigation is over. if new evidence is found, we will follow it. if new direction is given by the state's attorney's we will obey it and follow through with the investigation. >> that report was not released to the public, as many had anticipated. instead, it is now in the hands of baltimore state's attorney marilyn marilyn m marilyn mosby. six of officers have been suspended with pay. and there are now conflicting reports about the cause of gray's injuries. late yesterday, the washington post reported that a prisoner who shared the police transport van with gray could, quote, hear gray banging against the walls.

intentionally trying to injure himself. baltimore nbc affiliate wbal obtained that said he heard banging but did not see gray or hear him talk. msnbc obtained the original list of charges for freddie gray following his arrest. according to police gray fled unprovoked upon noticing police presence and arrested for possession of a switchblade. the maximum penalty for that crime? one year in prison and a $500 fine. joining me on the phone, msnbc's national correspondent, joy reed. joy, what's the reaction to the charge, basically, the list of charges freddie gray was in possession of a switchblade. i think it surprises people that can land you in jail for a year. >> well yeah. sorry, as i run to the car. essentially, we are still trying to get reaction for it. i was trying to get an attorney to describe to me whether or not

probable cause standard was met for this arrest. because what the charging document to the district court of marilyn state is that he was going to be charged with and said possession of a switchblade, of a knife blade with automatic attachment. but the question is how would officers have known that? how would they have known that when they stopped it? i think that's the question. >> right. the officers were on bicycle, as you point out, joy. and the switchblade was somehow tucked on to his person. and i think that's what you're talking about in terms of the discrepancy, right? >> right. and the question being in the narrative description of the charging document it said the initial contact came because freddie gray fled unprovoked upon noticing a police presence quote unquote. so if just fleeing on scene police is the probable cause the question i think that a legal expert would have to answer is whether that's

sufficient probable cause to stop someone. just avoiding the police to my knowledge, is not a crime. i think the question would be whether or not that initial stop met the probable cause standard. and the narrative said the officer, quote unquote, noticed the knife to be inside of his front right pants pocket. how did he notice that? how did he realize that? those are questions i think would have come up at trial had freddie gray survived this encounter. and the next thing we're going to want to question is the rest of the narrative said that gray was transported to the western district in a wagon and had a medical emergency. it doesn't mention any stops and we now know there were stops but that wasn't in the narrative. >> joy, hang with me. i want to bring in former federal prosecutor and msnbc co-host of "the cycle," butler. talk about the timeline. today, the police we found out there was another stop on this

timeline. the first stop was gray was put in leg irons and placed back in the van. the second stop is a stop we didn't know about before. previously unknown to the public. and discovered from private camera footage. then there was a third stop where the driver of the van called for another officer to check on the prisoner. freddie gray did not get medical attention at that point and the fourth stop another prisoner. we are getting some of the information or maybe contested information about whether freddie gray was self-inflicted wounds. he did not get into the van until almost the end of that ride. to the question of the second stop, the fact that we're finding out about this not from police but from other footage. what does that tell you? >> the police are not cooperating. we know there's a search warrant out because there's concern about some altercation between one of the officers and mr. gray. that officer is not revealing where his uniform is. >> i'm on this phone. >> the concern about the

cover-up, one big line we know the original police report said mr. gray was taken into custody without incidence or force. that's fiction. so again, we have to wonder what is it that these six police officers don't want us to know? >> certainly without incident right? the big debate is over force and i guess, ari, so let's combine the information that we have today. one is this new information about a second stop. another is the outstanding professor butler points out, the outstanding search warrant for the uniform that one of the officers was wearing when he took freddie gray into custody which may or may not have some soft freddie gray's dna on it and also now, the charging document that says that freddie gray may have had a switchblade and that's why they were going after him. in terms of the confidence that we should have about the police narrative of what transpired and conflicting narratives. i mean where are you on this? >> well i figured it's even more fundamental than that. this individual, freddie gray died from serious injuries under

police supervision. who caused those injuries? was it an officer or was it someone else? if it was someone else do police have any suspects for that individual? are they even trying at this point as they turn over materials to the state's attorney's office to say who did it? or if it was an officer, what is the process for determining that and that information? so, while on the one hand many aspects of these investigations are typically confidential as they proceed, true in the broad sense. on the other hand, no you don't get a lot of confidence when neither theory is being pursued assertively. as for the information selectively from the washington post article a tremendous amount of attention, i would point out even if an individual was in the van and heard noise, right, that's not really the nature of eyewitness testimony when they say they believe he was trying to hurt himself based on the noise. >> that's not eyewitness testimony if you don't lay eyes on freddie gray. >> that's a conclusion, an

interpretation that anyone could have about that noise means this or means that. it's very odd for that information to be leaking out, selectively, at this point in the process and saying, well according to the police in court you call that hearsay. the police say somebody else say the interpretation of events was he was trying to fracture his own spinal cord. you know in a movie, you'd say, this doesn't add up. it's not believable. sadly, this is the version of events that is leaking out at least piecemeal. >> the injuries we've been told he sustained in that ride do not comport with what the second prisoner said. >> not at all. we can believe our own eyes from the videotape. when i see the original arrest i see a number of officers sitting on mr. gray's back and then i see him dragged like a rag doll into that van. so you know the hope is that one of these officers will come forward either because he's a public servant and wants to tell the truth or more likely, the d.a. makes a deal with him to

break that blue wall of silence. we've heard evidence that one officer says this happened during the arrest. whatever went down it went down during the arrest. again, if this were a transparent investigation with officers, public servants acting accountable, we'd know way more than we now know. >> joy, we heard from some reports on the ground residents of baltimore already think they know what happened and in fact the release of the investigation and the report is but a detail. what the people of baltimore want is some kind of legal action at this point. how accurate do you think that assessment is about feelings on the ground around the delay of the release of the report? >> absolutely. i think there's a great deal of cynicism when you talk to residents of this city particularly the west side and the east side predominantly african-american areas where people essentially saying it wasn't so much about, it was about the fact that once again, there's not going to be more information. and i think there was a huge expectation that friday was

going to be important. the mayor even mentioned there were rumors at high school that it was the big day. and officials have been working hard to dial back that expectation. i think these things the information they tend to the state's attorney early was part of that. trying to deescalate friday. the underlying issue for most of the people, at least i spoke with there are just so many freddie grays. this is just one time part of the encounter was caught on video and yet, there is this sense that because police officers have such rights because of the way this state operates, once again, people feel there's not going to be accountability. >> in terms of bringing charges, i guess i ask you, i'll start with you, ari. how hard sit to get and i know your thoughts on this too. how hard is it to bring charges in a case like this? we are far from that moment at present. but looking at where we are in terms of the investigation and the conflicting narratives i mean where do you, what's the

likelihood that there's manslaughter charge and voluntary or voluntary? >> i think in most municipalities and cities there's a structural conflict of interest because every normal day, a d.a. wakes up and works with the police to generate all of their cases and all of their leads. and in situations where there are allegations against police for crimes within the police department, right, that flips around. and that collaboration now becomes a conflict. >> right. >> not to say that everyone is evil or in on a cover-up. >> it's a relationship. >> it's just very hard to flip back around on that and expect that to proceed in normal course. so that's a structural bar. then if you get to the point where the d.a. is presenting the material, then it would depend on the local communities and who is in the grand jury. >> i know you have thoughts about this community in particular. >> never easy to bring a case against a police officer in jurisdiction if you have to where you want to be. again, these jurors potential jurors have legitimate concerns about whether the police are

honest whether they treat citizens not only with respect, but whether they follow the law. and what ari said is so important about the appearance of an objective prosecutor. this is a prosecutor who, again, we have no reason to believe she's not going to be fair. but we do know both of her parents are police officers. her grandfather was a police officer. she was endorsed by the police union. so again, in ferguson remember all those concerns about their prosecutor has relationship close relationship to the police, we just don't know. >> i understand the fact pattern here if you're talking legally is difficult because there's more than one theory. one theory would be suicide. another theory is another individual caused these theories and then the officers in the altercation injuries caused if that is your theory for a prosecution, the victim is deceased and the video evidence while damning in some sense because it's shown discrepancies is not of that altercation. so yes, that would also be difficult without, as professor

butler was saying without some other collaboration by one participant or witness. the victim is dead and if there's no other evidence that emerges, you don't have a lot of what you would need particularly for a serious charge like voluntary manslaughter. >> really quick there, in maryland, baltimore, it's unique to the city that the state of maryland also has this law enforcement office bill of rights. i came back from a meeting in which the mayor spoke and reiterated the point there's really nothing the city can do because the bill of rights gives officers so much protection even from the city doing much to them in terms of relieving them of duty. there's only so much the city could do and i would add the prosecutor in this case married to a city councilman. >> yes, marilyn mosby is married to nick mosby, where this took

place. >> not disconnected from the community in the way the st. louis county prosecutor was from ferguson. >> joy reid, professor paul thank you. much more out of baltimore ahead and this. she has been called a hero mother of the year. but is she really? white house senior advisor valerie jarrett weighs in on that coming up just ahead. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert. that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost. i love making sunday dinners. but when my back hurt, cooking all day... forget about it. tylenol was ok, but it was 6 pills a day. but aleve is just 2 pills all day.

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she's been called the hero of the baltimore riots. the new york post named her mother of the year, year, #momoftheyear trending on twitter. the baltimore woman dragging her son off the streets has become a viral sensation. but not everyone is applauding the public beatdown. the washington post asks why america is celebrating the beating of a black child?

this celebration, writes stacey reflects a belief that black youths are inherently problematic, criminal and out of control. supports the idea that black fathers are absent suggesting all you need is an angry black mom to beat the thug out of an angry young man and everything will be fine. asked why she thinks the video of her went viral. >> as mothers, you don't see us. you don't see us. you see our kids walking through the bus stop and maybe speaking with somebody that's on the corner and they are being singled out as thugs as we have heard that they are. and at no time is my son a thug. >> she was worried about you. >> right. she didn't want me be like. >> senior advisor to the president, the white house's valerie jarrett. thank you for joining me. i know it's a busy time over there. >> my pleasure alex.

good afternoon. >> good afternoon. when you saw this video, as a mother, what was your thought? >> my thought was that she was terrified. and you know when that adrenaline starts to flow when you are a mom and you see your child in danger you just get very emotional. i think what she just displayed was all this fear and this morning with her son in the interview, everybody knows my mom. she's there to protect me and she said i'm raising this young man on my own and want him to be safe and don't want him involved in harm's way. so i really looked at it just that simply. >> and i guess, what do you think about the conversation around it? which is brought to the fore. i think a lot of simmering tension around race and also the role of, you know the structure of the black family in contemporary america. >> i don't think we should read too much of expression of emotion by one mom looking after her son but i think there is a broader issue. what are we going to do to

ensure that our boys and young men of color grow up in a society where they have just the same opportunities as every other child? and as you know that's what the president is always talking about. what can we do to make sure we close that gap and these young people have hope and they have aspirations and dreams and what can we as adults do to ensure that everybody who is prepared to work hard and play by the rules can meet those dreams? that's what my brother's keeper initiative is about that the president really grew out of the president's remark after the george zimmerman verdict came in. he said we should all do soul searching to figure out what we can do to keep these young boys not just safe but allow them to dream and thrive in our society. >> valerie, baltimore is a flash point for so many of those issues. the president said he has no immediate plans to visit baltimore. 45 minutes away from washington. why not go there? >> i think he said right now we're trying to ensure there is peaceful and opportunity for peaceful demonstrations. we had a very difficult night a

couple of nights ago and everybody from the local law enforcement to the state are all working to try to keep the peace and when the president arrives on the scene he's an enormous distraction and pulls resources away from where they need to be. so for the time being, he won't go. but he's certainly keeping up with what's going on. i've spoken to the governor and the mayor every day. he spoke to the governor and the mayor on monday. our attorney general sent her top people to meet with the mayor and local leaders to see what they could do to help provide the type of technical assistance that's so important at a time like this to diffuse the situation and not ignite it. and i think there are just thousands and thousands of people on the streets of baltimore who are, love their community. want to protect their community, want to improve the relationship between the police and the community that they're there to serve and we should hold that up and celebrate that. >> i guess, i mean and i understand that when the president goes anywhere it's a major, a lot of resources are allocated towards his security and generally, it can create

some chaos. but given the fact that he is our country's first black president, given his powerful or toir on the suggest of race and given the crossroads it feels like we're at as a country, we keep seeing these things happen. don't you think he has a role to play by standing on the streets of baltimore and speaking his mind on a topic he knows a lot about that about? >> i think he did that the other day. whether physically on the streets in baltimore or speaking elegantly from the rose garden, i think his message was won that relegated broadly around the country. we do need to be talking about these issues and not simply talk about them when we have a tragedy such as this one and you see people pouring out into the streets. the same thing happened last summer in ferguson and staten island and ohio and around our country. and i think it's an expression of an underlying simmering frustration that's out there that we need to do something about. and the president has talked very clearly about his agenda to

have a middle class economics strategy that grows the middle class and provides ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. until we meet those challenges head on we'll continue to have challenges. >> and to that end in terms of conflict proposals and i think a lot of people understand the underlying economic failures and issues that need to be addressed there, but in terms of policing and police community relations, i mean is the president open to concrete steps to curve police brutality, to curb use of excessive force, to perhaps attach strings to federal dollars that go to law enforcement? >> i think, alex the president created a 21st century task force that gave a preliminary report to him several weeks ago. it had very concrete specific recommendations for ways to foster better trust between communities and the people that are served by the police. how can we make that a bond of trust? and there are great examples around the country of police

departments who have em bralsed change and are putting in place, whether it's technology or training body cameras, all kinds of mek niches of strengthening that relationship. there was a time when people when police walked the beat as a regular basis and knew the people who owned the shops and knew the older woman who sits in looking out the window and sees exactly what's going on before her very eyes and when we have reinvested in community policing and we have developed those strategies of having this better relationship between the police and the community, communities are safer, police are safer, everybody should deserve to go home, including our police, safe and sound. so yes there are very specific steps in that report that are resourced to the 1600 police departments around our country to take advantage, 16,000 police departments around our country, take advantage of what's in that report and start to implement it. and yes, the answer to your question, we are looking at ways of tying federal dollars both to

resources and new initiatives. president has in his budget $75 million for body cameras. obviously what we have seen over the past year was captured on tape. with more transparency, not only protect the citizens but also the police doing a really good job. you'd have a record of everything that happened. so that's one resource. training is very important. all too often, police are sent out without sufficient training to know how to diffuse situations, rather than escalate them. and so i encourage everybody to take a look at the report. we know that the police associations across the country are committed to change. i think they understand it's in their self-interest to hold up those best practices and implement them to forge this better trust. so the president has been absolutely on top of this. >> white house senior advisor valerie jarrett. thank you for your time. >> you're welcome. we are continuing to keep a watch on baltimore throughout this show. we have new information on the other side of the break about

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on the investigation into the death of baltimore resident freddie gray. according to local washington dc station, the investigation found no evidence that gray's injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with baltimore police officers. the report cites multiple anonymous law enforcement sources. according to those sources, the medical examiner found that gray's fatal injuries were caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van apparently breaking his neck. according to wjla it is unclear whether gray's injury was voluntary or not. we will continue to watch all of the news coming out of baltimore and bring you more as we know it. we'll be right back.

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of your thursday afternoon. the literary world divided over the writer association decision to honor "charlie hebdo." sophia said he should get custody of the frozen embryos as others call him deranged and shh, it will all be over soon. got the houston rockets social media manager fired. there was heated debate and lethal injection drugs in recent botched executions whether they institute cruel and unusual punishment. two courts conservative justices concern death penalty abolitionists by staging a gorillagore gerila war. you want to come before the court and say this third drug is not 100%. it's because the abolitionists

have rendered it impossible to get did 100% sure drugs. join me now, mike pesca and annie lowry. mike, does justice scalia have a point? is his contention about the provision of these drugs besides the point or exactly the point? >> sort of in between. if you think something is wrong, like the death penalty is by any means, try to get it abolished. it's not a terrible point that i won't get in too much depth and you probably know this but the only reason they do a three drug cocktail animals are killed with a two drug cocktail but there's a paralyzing agent. without that the bodies thrashed around. some in executions say it's a safety thing. you don't want when they inject but probably doesn't disturb witnesses. there are so many complications with this that the opponents of the death penalty just want the whole thing banned based on the

procedure. is that the way we're going to get the death penalty banned. any nation that banned the death penalty because there's not an efficient way to kill people? probably not. >> and now we're talking about going back to firing squads and gas chambers because in many ways annie lowry, those are maybe more humane than having someone actually burned alive from the inside because of chemicals. >> yeah absolutely. and i think that you guys are right to situate this with a kind broad area of political debate about whether we should be doing this at all and the people we're putting to death. and i think this is just best seen as a small part of that and i think to a certain extent, justice scalia is right. it's a political issue. >> they're not debating the constitutionality of the death penalty. they're debating whether the injection of the cocktail, this cocktail of drugs is a violation of eighth and ninth amendment against cruel and unusual punishments. >> which is debatable and worth noting if you talk to

physicians, it's easy enough to kill somebody but physicians don't want any part of this. that's the reason they have these drug cocktails and thaifr really searching for ways to do this in a way that doesn't horrify the people watching but humane to the people put to together which as you pointed out, why we're bringing back or talking about things like bringing back shooting people. >> and we are in some states. >> probably faster. >> so there is death and then there is life. businessman nick loeb said he should be able to bring his exfiance embryos to term against her wishes. loeb writes does one person's desire create any legal obligations with religious beliefs with a desire to be a parent? the woman is entitled to bring a pregnancy to term even if the man objects. shouldn't the man with all parental responsibility entitled to bring his embryos to term even if the woktman objects,

blake? >> no. >> you agree with jezebel, no. you can ejaculate anywhere find a woman as cray cray to share the sacred duty. >> if you read the full article, there's a section in the second paragraph, said we have an agreement. mutual consent, the baby embryos can't be used to have babies until both sides agree. and he was like forget about it. both sides agree to have a baby. you don't need to read the 15 paragraphs. >> sometimes, women get to take the embryos to term. in those cases where they have been been allowed to those women having going under chemotherapy and can't have children again. nick loeb can have babies well into the future. >> and those were the exceptions. i think ten of the cases in the states two of them found very

kind of circumstances. >> and the other argument is just the straight up pro-life is that i don't want these to be destroyed because i have moral objections. >> i respect people's religion or nanny's religion. i think he's a bad messenger and i think i'm sure his lawyers happy with the placement for that. i don't know if we should take his example but a decent issue and america has pretty bad laws on this. italy and germany, they dictate and tell you what they have to do with the freezing of these embryos. you know the catholic church said there's no good, first of all, if he was a catholic through the procedure in the first place. >> there's that. >> he's a terrible messenger but thornier issues he does raise. if one side said he wants to have the baby can he veto it but there is an analogy to reaching inside the mother's body and saying no i don't want you to have that baby.

that couldn't be done. what about the other way? why should the woman give power if the man doesn't have power or -- >> that is why, annie, there is a mutual consent agreement. doesn't that sort of neutralize this whole debate? >> absolutely. i thought it was frankly bizarre that the new york times agreed to run this. i felt like he was harassing her. i felt like he has absolutely no legal case. and most people say he doesn't have a moral case either. she doesn't want to have, you know, children with him. they have an agreement specifying they're not going to have children unless they both want to. i have no idea why we're even debating this. >> because it's sophia on "the new york times." when those meet cable news must weigh in. but we'll move on annie. something else blake, the literary community is engaged in a robust debate. more than 150 acclaimed writers protest the penn american for honoring "charlie hebdo" with its annual free speech award

writing do not believe in censoring expression but between staunchly supporting that violate the acceptable and enthusiastically rewarding such expression expression. that angered some, if pen as a free speech organization can't defend and celebrate people and murdered for drawing pictures the organization is not worth the name. where do you land on this blake? >> i mean this is not -- >> not as cut and dry. >> i only had to read two paragraphs on that and i knew my answer. this i know there are distinctions between commemorating, honoring remembering people murdered. that's tragic. i think that's an obvious case right there. but then you get into the case between protecting the first amendment rights which is obviously we all should do but then celebrating some of these cartoons pretty heinous. so i think pen can do whatever

they want. they can do whatever but if those people say it's a bridge too far to celebrate and honor these particular types of cartoons that are really kind of islam phobic and worse, i respect that. >> but i guess, annie, is this one of the litanus tests, seeing if we believe in those convictions. is this, i'm playing devil's advocate here because i think i sympathize with the writers who don't want to participate, but is this not an important, is this not an important sort of moment to say even in these moment egregious cases, we will stand here? >> so i think that what the award is for really matters here. this is not an award for best content or the ideas that we are lauding the most. this is a free speech award. i think this is the system working like it should. pen made the decision, gave it to "charlie hebdo," which i think is completely legitimate thing and people are protesting it.

it's perfect. pen should not retract the award. i think that the people who are pointing out that "charlie hebdo" printed some really offensive things they got a point. and it's a good jumping off point for talking about how we should be depicting things. >> referred to the authors that have an issue with this letter. it's a name i can't say on this family program, begins with p and synonymous with the female anatomy. >> i think i stand with them. not only should they honor them because that they were martyrs for the overall cause, i don't find it offensive. and if it was -- >> you don't find their cartoons offensive? >> i think they're anti-islamic anti-religious. that's a fine point to have in the discourse. they do it through cartoons. i would rather have a world where that goes on than a world where it didn't for fear of offending someone. >> we ran out of time we have so much more to say on this particular topic.

we'll come back to it in the days ahead. mike pesca, annie lowry, thank you for your time. >> senator bernie sanders joins the race. special. food is my art. when we cook for someone, we are sharing a little bit of our soul. to life! and when we eat, we begin with our eyes. just as the beauty of the food entices you to try it, the beauty of the website should entice you to explore it. i am eric ripert and this is my squarespace. we all enter this world with a shout and we see no reason to stop. so cvs health is creating industry-leading programs and tools that help people stay on medicines as their doctors prescribed. it could help save tens of thousands of lives every year. and that w ould be something worth shouting

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that is winning elections. >> senator bernie sanders is in it to win it. the scrap pi brooklyn native turned vermont senator today for the presidential nomination. sanders played all the progressive hits during his announcement hitting economic inquality, campaign finance, keystone trade. and now challenging democratic duel. gop would hold them back. to the race. managing editor of the washington post politics section and author of the fix, chris. chris, bernie sanders, friendly foe or dangerous foil. friendly foil or dangerous foe? >> i would say sort of expected

foe which is the clinton's know hillary clinton is known that it is likely if there was going to be any sort of primary challenge, it would be to her ideological left. she would hope that would not be elizabeth warren. it looks now it will be some combination of bernie sanders, jim and the former governor of maryland, probably. sanders sort of the most interesting to me of those three because he has a very long record of talking about campaign finance. income inequality trade. he'll be on the debates, as you hear in the clips, he is an eloquent liberal. that some liberals will rally behind. he's not going to have the money or close to enough money. i think the seriously contester, but someone who will attempt to drag the conversation more to the ideological left. >> what about martin o'malley? a lot of folks say the fact that martin o'malley his name is

mentioned, his record is mentioned, that is very bad for his prospects as a candidate because it reminds the american public about his troubled legacy in terms of incarceration in the war on drugs. how much do you think that sticks with him on the national stage? >> it certainly doesn't help. if martin o'malley was drawing the run-up of what we expect to be a presidential announcement this would not be in it. right? i don't think it ultimately keeps him out of the race he spent the last years of his term really building up a very liberal record on things like gay marriage, the death penalty, really trying to sort of get himself in position to be a liberal alternative to what we expected would be hillary clinton. he will be able to raise more than bernie sanders. i think bernie sanders in some way, i don't want to make a direct comparison but like ron paul was in 2008 and 2012. there will be a dedicated set of people within the base who are going to be for him who view his unorthodoxy in terms of he announced in front of the u.s.

senate which is not usually something presidents do and sort of appealing. and that kwir i canquirkyiness. i think webb is the least likely of those three but to merge the voices. senator clinton is saying a lot of right things but what she's done. someone will do that in the course of the debates and the course of the primary campaign. i think it's between o'malley and sanders, with sanders maybe at this point having a little edge because he's currently in the race. >> right. he's in. >> that's analysis alex. >> that's why the fix is indispensable. thank you for your time. >> you too. take care. as a reminder he will be ed schultz' guest next on msnbc. we'll have more in baltimore after the break. what the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers.

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fro protests under way in philadelphia and baltimore. the demonstrations on the heels of a new report of the investigation into the death of freddie gray. according to local washington, d.c. station wjla gray's fatal injuries caused when he slammed into the back of the police transport van apparently breaking his neck. the report cites multiple anonymous law enforcement sources who claim the injury found no evidence that gray's injuries were caused during the videotaped arrest and interaction with police officers. according to wjla it is unclear whether gray's injury was voluntary or not. joining me by now, msnbc's national correspondent joy reid. has news of this important, very, very important finding in the investigation made its way to the streets of baltimore yet at present? >> not yet, alex. i mean we were just with a group of marchers preparing to meet this two headed march, one from the east side and one from

the west side, i think one you are taking a look at right now. i asked just sort of hypothetical questions about how they would feel about finding that didn't result in the indictment or any fault of the police officers and that idea wasn't even really occurring to people. they were looking for a young activist that would result in some kind i think they wanted to say there is no process. >> i want to go to msnbc's correspondent jermaine lee. i know you're on the ground here. what are protester saying and what would they like to see at this point? >> reporter: there's a sense there's a sort of cover-up under way. certainly information will be leaked to cover up what they believe was something unjustice happened to freddie gray and regardless of what dalsetails, and

shouldn't have been in police custody in the first place. right now, we have hundreds of people marching down towards downtown. you can hear the chants no justice, no peace. no racist police. the crowds have grown, you can see from the overhead. a couple hundred of these. >> trimain, we know there are protests in philadelphia. and the cities across the country. >> reporter: well, that's always a difficulty. there are some national organizers here in baltimore that try to help people with what they're doing on the ground but politics it's all local. the people are concerned about the situation surrounding freddie gray. they want to see the investigation play out. there are still people again part of this broader network and we've seen over the summer from all the cases that continue over the summer that people building and coalescing around.

that's what they do here. >> trimain lee, thank you. good show "the ed show." in washington, d.c. >> i will be running as independent democrat. we're in the race to win. >> plus. >> the timeline and the evidence and the information that we have developed in the story does not match. >> we know what happened. we don't need a report. we're sick and tired. >> sick and tired of the foolish foolishness. >> good to have you with us tonight. it's an important day here on "the ed show." a gentleman on the program quite often backing up a big announcement. earlier today, vermont senator, bernie sanders officially announced he will run as