the faith leaders doing all they can to make sure that this night of marches comes off without incident. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. and thanks for you for tuning in. i'm live tonight in baltimore with breaking news. right now, we're seeing the first protests since police handed findings from their investigation to the state's attorney. we're also hearing for the first time from the passenger, dante alan, who shared the police van with freddie gray. he spoke to wblal's jane miller. >> alan did not know a man was already in the van. freddie gray was on the right side alan was loaded on to the left side. a solid divider separated them. in an interview, alan described what he heard. once you got in the van, what did you hear? >> when i got in the van, i didn't hear nothing. we went straight to the police

station. all i heard was like a little banging for about four seconds. you know what i mean? i just heard a little banging, you know, just little -- you know what i mean boom boom just little banging. >> reporter: sources have told us that by the time alan was loaded, gray was unresponsive. you can see officers at that stop looking into gray's side of the van with its doors fully open. >> when we got to the police station, they said he didn't have no pulse or nothing. they calling his name mr. gray mr. gray and he wasn't responsible. >> this follows a controversial new report in "the washington post," which claims that same passenger told police he heard gray intentionally trying to injure himself. also today, police revealing they've learned about an additional stop that the police van made after freddie gray's arrest. >> the second stop has been revealed to us during the course of our investigation and was previously unknown to us.

we discovered this new stop based on our thorough and comprehensive and ongoing review of all cctv cameras and privately owned cameras and in fact, this new stop has been -- was discovered from a privately owned camera. >> the police reports are not being made public. but a local washington, d.c. station, wjla, is citing anonymous law enforcement sources, who say gray's injury was caused inside the van, when he slammed into the back of the van. it also claims a bolt on the van matches an injury on gray's head. we've got team coverage across baltimore tonight and we expect a police briefing within the hour. joining me now is msnbc national correspondent, joy reid who's on the ground with protesters

tonight. joy, what is going on where you are? >> reporter: well rev, this was a protest that actually converged from both east baltimore and west baltimore. the two launching simultaneous launches that then converged and the entire team came down to city hall. hundreds of people out here in city hall. how are y'all doing? we'll walk through a little bit and let's see if we can talk to a couple of people. let's stop here. may i ask you what brought you here today? >> justice! that's it. just justice. >> and for you, what does that mean? what do you want to see in terms of justice? >> see them polices go down because they were wrong for what they did. >> reporter: and do you feel like the process so far has been fair? >> not at all. >> not at all. >> i -- >> they ain't gone down yet. >> i feel like they putting all the attention on the burning down and all of that but at the end of the day, you cannot bring freddie back. you can all come and make

baltimore spanking brand-new. you have enough money to do that. you cannot bring this man's life back. it's not only about freddie gray, there are a lot of freddie grays everywhere in america and everybody's tired of it. we're tired of it. it's never going to be no justice. the system never was made to be justice for us. it was never made like that. so it's never going to be. if this is what takes for all y'all to be here this what it takes, this right here, strtfor the destruction of baltimore to happen don't act like baltimore is spanking brand-new. y'all took all of that. when we tried to y'all still wanted to take it away. it's only going to get worse. >> rev, i think you can hear -- thank you very much. thank you both. i think you can hear the passion. this is what we've been hearing all day, rev. people are very passionate and angry, but everyone was peaceful. as they were marching was, we love baltimore, we want peace. that was the chant all the crowd

was doing as they got here. very passionate and angry, but a very peaceful gathering here at city hall. >> you're right, joy, i've heard that all over baltimore today. joy, stay with us. i want to bring in msnbc's trymaine lee. what do you see? >> reporter: how you doing, rev? so there are hundreds of people gathered here in front of city hall, and even in the midst of all the latest developments folks said we don't know what to trust until the investigation is final. one thing they said they do know, and they said over and over again, is that freddie gray is dead and he didn't need to be. so they go back to that origin no al stop. people don't understand what he was initially detaineed for in the first place. people say he made eye contact with police and ran from there. that is not illegal. their concern is more than what's happening now in terms of the leaks, like, why was freddie gray stopped in the first place. they still don't have clear, concise answers to why that young man is dead.

>> i've heard over and over again, no one can go into the van until you first deal what happened when he was in custody? whatever happened happened while he was in custody and there does not seem to be a real answer to why he was in custody in the first place. >> reporter: and that's the part that concerns folks, especially with the revelation from police today that there was this stop that no one knew about, that apparently, you have to glean that investigators didn't know that their fellow officers actually made this additional stop. and that it took a private camera to be obtained to get that you know, information. and so people are troubled by the fact that surrounding this mysterious injury this mysterious fatal injury there's this gap in time that somehow has not been explained. >> all right, stay with us.

joining me now is great family attorney larry cook. thank you, first of all, for being here attorney cook. >> you're welcome. thank you for having me. >> now, the other prisoner in the van says he heard light banging, light banging. that's very different from what was reported in "the washington post." what's the family's reaction to all of these reports? >> the family's reaction to all of these reports is that right now there's a lot of rumors swirling around there's contradictory evidence swirling around. we've had no opportunity to review the evidence to verify it so the family really is in a posture where they are waiting to see what the actual evidence is, what the actual statements are, what the prosecutors now has in her possession and to see what actually happened at least as far as the evidence shows, before they make any statements or judgments about where this case is going right now. >> attorney koch who would have given "the washington post" the

police report that freddie gray was trying to hurt himself? >> well what has been reported was that somehow -- that that was an affidavit that was attached to a request for a search and seizure warrant for certain evidence that the police wanted to seize and review. it would be in very limited hands. the search and seizure warrant would be in the hands of the police officers. from there, with you know normally the normal course is is that the police officers draft, sign the search and seizure warrant, present it to a judge depending on the time of day and the location and execution of the warrant, that warrant is then signed. oftentimes, warrants are left at the scene, but my understanding is this was a sealed warrant, so really, it would be limited, i can only -- the only people i can think of right now who would have had access to the warrant are the police officers and the judge. >> now another report from a

local washington, d.c. station says law enforcement sources told them freddie gray's head injury matches a bump in the back of the van. is the family aware of this report? >> i'm sorry, with it's a little bit loud. could you repeat that for me please? >> we have another report from a washington, d.c. station that says that law enforcement sources told them freddie gray's head injury matches a bump in the back of the van. is the family aware of this report? >>, you know we talked to the family on an ongoing basis and what the family is really not interested in right now is what other people outside of the police department and the state's attorney's office are reporting, because right now none of that is confirmed, it's innuendo, they're relying on us as their legal team to find -- to get to the bottom of this and to review the evidence that the state's attorney's office

hopefully will eventually release. so they really don't pay attention to that. they leave it to us to investigate, and to come back to them, and talk to them about what's going on with this case. >> now, other reports say freddie gray could have been having seizures in the back of the police van. does he have any medical history that would suggest that's possible? >> i have not -- i am not aware of any such information. again, you know for some reason, people feel it necessary to feel the gaps where we have no information with information that is nothing more than speculation and rumor. and so i don't know where that information comes from. i can, at this point, verify it or deny it except to say, i have no knowledge that that's true. >> now, let's go back to what you said that it was reported today that the van carrying freddie gray made another stop that they had not previously known about.

what's your take on that? my take on that is that highly unusual and it raises sort of the hairs on the back of my neck, in terms of the investigation of this case because typically what happens in a situation is the wagon man is by himself, driving the transport vehicle. and so it's highly unusual that he would not have some kind of radio communication with other officers to indicate to them what he was doing and why he was doing that because he would need potentially, you would expect, some support and for people to know what was going on. i find it highly unusual that there would be a stop captured and no radio transmissions to correlate to that stop. but, again, we need to see what that evidence is. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> now the police today -- the police said today they turned over their findings to the state's attorney who's conducting her own investigation. is the family confident in the

state's attorney? >> the family has no reason to doubt that miss mosby and her staff will do their very best to get to the bottom of all of this, to sift through the evidence, to evaluate the evidence, to, you know, honestly evaluate it. it's going to be a question of how much of the evidence actually got to the state's attorney, whether or not there's additional information that needs to be gathered but they have full faith in that miss mosby will do her job and do her job appropriately. >> how soon do they expect a decision on charges? >> you know our position has always been and when i say, "our position," and i'm speaking for the family is that we don't put a time limit on it. what we want is we want a fair, thorough investigation and evaluation of the evidence and that the appropriate decision be based on that evidence so any resulting arrest that comes from

that are solid at trial and solid on appeal if it gets that far. and that we want to ensure that there is justice for freddie. and that every citizen in baltimore feels when this investigation is done, that this case was treated appropriately. >> mary koch lawyer for the gray family thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you so much for having me. >> now i want to bring in eugene o'donnell, professor of law and police study at john j. college of criminal justice. eugene, what's your reaction from hearing from the other passenger in the van, who says he didn't hear much just a, quote, little banging. what's your reaction to that? >> it underscore was the attorney just said wisely which is, there's a long way to go here, even though it seems like we've waited a long time, but that there's inconsistencies, it's not "law & order" or csi, we're all used to hearing stories that don't necessarily

comport. and at the end of the day, the prosecutor is feverishly working to get this story sorted out. and in this era of cameras, it's even more complicated and i think that's why they're even more cautious. because i don't think they don't want to come down endorsing a set of facts and find out after the fact that there's a camera that depicts something inconsistent with what they're vouching for. so i think that's one of the reasons why there's major caution going on about giving us details. >> what is your reaction to the fact that we're now hearing there was another stop that we did not hear of before? that they actually made a stop while gray was in the van. >> the absolutely minimum here minimum, is a mistake that the department's already acknowledged, so we're working from that that they didn't get this guy medical care and working up from the absolutely minimum is the possibility that they were interviewed and didn't say anything about the stop, because they know that they didn't care to take care of him. and beyond that there's darker

possibilities of an assault that actually happened. but, again, i think this is why the timeline, second-to-second, moment-to-moment, is crucial, and why we simply in the middle of this ten days or so we don't know nearly as much as we need to know. obviously, the medical evidence is going to be crucial and there's quite a distance to go now. and what the attorney said if ultimately, this is a crime, in all honestly having been a prosecutor, you know that in the interest of justice, giving out more information can undermine a successful prosecution, if this ultimately becomes a criminal matter. you can do that to the detriment of a successful prosecution, giving out information too early. >> eugene, please stay with me. eugene will be with us for the hour. we're following the protests here in baltimore tonight, as we head again toward a police briefing in just a few minutes. and later, who is baltimore's state's attorney? marilyn mosby will oversee the

freddie gray investigation. today, she made some news about another investigation, and there's also a protest in philadelphia. we'll be right back. a big news night, so stay with us. excellent looking below the surface, researching a hunch... and making a decision you are type e*. time for a change of menu. research and invest from any website. with e*trade's browser trading. e*trade. opportunity is everywhere.

the the second stop has been revealed to us during the course of our investigation and was previously unknown to us. we discovered this new stop based on our thorough and comprehensive and ongoing review of all cctv cameras and privately owned cameras. and in fact this new stop was discovered from a privately owned camera. >> baltimore police today revealing the van carrying freddie gray made another stop that we hadn't known about.

so what happened there and why did it take this long for investigators to find out about it? and the other big question of the day, what did the other prisoner in that van hear? "the washington post" reported that the second man told investigators that he could hear gray quote, trying to injure himself. but as we mentioned earlier, wbal's jane miller spoke with the second prisoner in the van, and he told her something different. >> when i got in the van, i didn't hear nothing. it was a smooth ride. we went straight to the police station. all i heard was like a little banging for like four seconds. you know what i mean? i just heard little banging, you know, just little -- you know what i mean? boom, boom just little banging. just little banging. >> joining me now is baltimore city councilman nick mosby, who represents freddie gray's neighborhood. thank you for being here councilman. >> thanks for having me on

reverend. >> the second man in the van, councilman saying he just heard a little bit of noise. what's your reaction? >> it's interesting. i mean i think it's different than what we've heard before. and it's concerning. i mean i think the biggest thing that came out today was, i think the police talked about, there was an additional stop that the only reason that they knew about it was from a private cell phone camera. that's the type of stuff that folks want to know about and hear about and it makes folks even more suspicious. the one thing that always takes most people back to is why freddie gray why was he a suspect, why was he chased why was he detained is and ultimately arrested and not really provided with the information to the public why he laid in a shock trauma bed. many people look at this 25-year-old young man, seemingly healthy, and they just don't understand how a turn of events can happen so quickly. >> i'm hearing everywhere of meetings today and down in the

street people saying that we still don't know weeks later, why he was taken into custody in the first place. as the councilman of the district where freddie gray lived, how does that strike you that weeks later, we still don't understand why he was in police custody, less know what happened in police custody, but why he was even the there, in the van in police custody, in the first place. >> reverend al you're exactly right. if you know you know i came out with "the baltimore sun" a couple weeks ago asking those exact questions. see, it's that basic fundamental information that allows the community to be a part of the process, but when you do not provide it and if you don't have transparency for basic information, like, why was he a suspect, why was he chased why was he arrested folks have a huge amount of skepticism with the process and that further exacerbates the trust of the community, the trust of the investigation with the police department.

and i think that that was the catalyst to a lot of the initial protests and unrest in this city. >> now it corresponds with the claims we've heard for years in baltimore, and frankly, around the country, that people are being stopped for no reason. and i think we don't know where the investigation will lead but i think that is what has, in many ways raised a lot of passionate and real concern, is that maybe he did nothing that caused an arrest and maybe he was stopped like so many have claimed around the country, they're just stopped for being young black males. >> that's right, reverend al. we know that african-american men are disproportionately impacted by the criminal justice system. and, you know, we talk about the war on drugs. it's really the war on urban america, specifically young african-american men. and you know the one thing that i'll say, reverend al "the baltimore sun" did an article a

couple weeks back and they basically detailed all the civilian complaints over the past six years and how the city paid out $11 million for those complaints. paying our taxpayers money to deal with cops that are habitually causing issues in our community. this is really a turning point in the city of baltimore. we have to develop policies that really put teeth into going after the focuses who aren't doing right in our communities. at the end of the day, there's a large percentage i would say probably 90 95% of the folks on the police force who are doing the right job. but unfortunately, that small percentage are really driving the perception in the community and exacerbating the distrust. and in order to have a quality criminal justice system you need to have community involvement, and we simply do not have it in west baltimore and all throughout urban america. >> now, i've heard all over the city today and in the summon meeting we had with national civil rights leaders, that there is a need for structural change. what can be done legislateivelegislatively?

y'all remember the city council. what can the legislature in the city council and the state do to deal with this issue? >> i would say three things. first, body cameras. we need body cameras. the city council passed a body camera bill to have it on every single officer. the mayor vetoed it and said that she wants to do more of a pilot. so we're rolling out a pilot of about 100, but i think we need to increase that. we need to go into these areas hardest hit by these complaints and all officers wear body cameras. also based off this, i think we need to put cameras in all vans. you know all of the police vans, the paddy wagons should have cameras. secondly, the law enforcement bill of rights needs to be looked into. right now in the state of maryland, a police officer can go ten days without having to you know provide any testimony associated with a complaint. and lastly and thoroughly we need to develop a way of ensuring that the officers who are committing these crimes habitually are dealt with

meaning they're no longer police officers. if i did something wrong on my job, i would be punished for it. >> councilman please stand by. stay with me. joining me now on the phone is dr. lawrence kobilinsky, a forensic scientist and professor at john jay college of criminal justice. thank you for being here dr. kobilinsky. >> sure, good evening. >> could someone -- i need to know this -- could someone have broken their own neck like this? is it physically possible? >> no. i would say that it is not possible. you would need to exert a very strong force, an impact in a particular area that would affect the vertebrae and fracture them. i think, i would say, that certainly, in the van, if he

were alone, he could not create those fractures. >> now, there's a local tv station, dr., in washington claiming that a head injury on freddie gray matches a bump in the van. what do you make of that? >> you know i think there are two issues here. i think the -- we know about the fractured three vertebrae, we know about the spinal cord that was severed about 80%. and i think given what we have observed when they dragged him to the van, it seems to me that the initial injury occurred during the struggle with the police during that takedown perhaps a knee on the neck. i mean that could, theoretically, have damaged the vertebrae. and i think there may have been an incomplete or partial severance of the cord. but i think that when he was brought into the van, i think

that any kind of action on his part, whether it was bending of the head a rotation or a flexion or an extension of the head, any of those types of activities would have severed the cord even further. so i think it was a two-step situation. i think the initial injury to the vertebrae happened before he entered the van and the severance of the cord was exacerbated and continued in the van. that would explain, i think, the observations that we've all made. >> wow. dr. lawrence kobilinsky thank you for your time. much more of today's breaking news ahead. we're expecting a police briefing just a few minutes away. stay with us.

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we're back with the breaking news out of baltimore. the baltimore police have turned over their freddie gray death report. the state's attorney marilyn mosby, will now decide if officers will be charged in the freddie gray case. today, her statement said quote, we have been briefed regularly, throughout their process while simultaneously conducting our own independent investigation, into the death of freddie gray. while we have and will continue to leverage the information received by the department, we are not relying solely on their findings, but rather the facts that we have gathered and verified if news today, her office is conducting an

independent investigation. she has not released a timetable. joining me now is paul butler a former federal prosecutor and professor of law at georgetown university. thank you for being here paul. >> it's great to be here, reverend. >> what's the state attorney doing now? where does she go from here? >> i think she's looking at two potential crimes. one, homicide whether we're talking about murder or something that's premeditated not likely. voluntary manslaughter certainly. but al, as importantly, she's thinking about obstruction of justice. because some of what we're seeing suggests a cover-up. you know this news first of all, about the police report that says that mr. gray was arrested without force, that's a big lie. that's evident from the videotape. and now there's reason to be concerned about why this second stop wasn't reported. it looks like officers are trying to hide something, and that raises a prosecutor's

suspicion. >> now, there's no timetable given. how much time do you think? >> you know really as long as it takes. we've heard that she's already started this investigation. you know people are going want to to make sure that she's objective. sometimes there are concerns that, because prosecutors have to work very closely with the police, that they don't investigate them as carefully. there's already some issues raised with the fact that both of her parents are police officers her grandfather was a police officer doesn't mean that she can't be fair and objective, but it does mean that she is going to be especially concerned about the appearance of justice. now she's thinking about the grand jury using that to do a complete investigation. she wants the forensics, she wants the lab reports from the medical examiner's, and most importantly, she's got to get one of these six officers to talk. because one of these people know exactly what happened in that van. >> now, her father and grandfather were police

officers, yet she has been known to deal with police cases in the past, in her career and she's married to a councilman who has raised a lot of questions, councilman mosby, around police. she has her own investigation going. is that unusual? >> no it's not. because, again, sometimes there are concerns about whether the police, how effective they are at investigating their own, so wherever you have a case like this you definitely want to have other investigators who might be a little bit more objective, and again, the police standard is low, to arrest it's probable cause. if this case goes to a jury she's going to have to persuade beyond a reasonable doubt. again, she wants to get people in the grand jury to lock in their testimony, to see if she's got a criminal case. >> you said to the grand jury. do you think this will go to a grand jury? >> reverend i think it's got to. again, we've got to be so concerned about these year of entrenched, almost warfare between at least the way the

citizens of baltimore feel so the grand jury has owl of this subpoena power, they can get evidence, like these clothes that the police officers were wearing that day, which apparently they don't want to give up on their own, and that makes us suspicious. we've heard about a search warrant for those clothes. so the grand jury can look at all of this information. their legal adviser is the prosecutor she's not in the room when they vote. the grand jury is composed of citizens of the district of -- citizens of baltimore. and again, we know these citizens. they're going to look at this evidence, but they've got this history with the police. so while it's tough to bring charges against a police officer in any jurisdiction, if you're a prosecutor and you've got to bring charges against a police officer, baltimore is where you want to be. >> now, here's what we know about the state's attorney. we talked about some of it. she's 35 years old, took office just this past january. she comes, as i said, from a

long line of police officers xi married to a councilman. is she ready for the spotlight, paul? >> you know she's the youngest head prosecutor in the country, so this is a big deal for her. she's in the public spotlight, probably, in a way that she never imagined. she's only been in office since november. you know, it's ironic but it's one thing that baltimore prosecutors are good at it's homicide prosecutions. because, unfortunately, they do more than most prosecutors. so they know how to do an investigation. these experienced prosecutors in her office they can do the hard work you know, the question that the citizens of baltimore will have is does she have is the political will to go wherever the charges lead? and for that we just have to wait and see. >> thank you, paul butler. let's go back to joy reid our national correspondent, msnbc, we are waiting a police press conference. joy, what's going on?

>> well the rain has dampened a little bit of the enthusiasm out here. i think people are still passionate, but we had a downpour that kind of cleared this space in front of city hall a little bit, but there are still people here who are a part of these protests, rev. and we did talk to a few people who were standing near us earlier, and i asked the question whether or not, a, people expect there to be indictments. the answer was essentially no. and whether people expect there to be what they would believe to be justice for freddie gray. a lot of pessimism on that score. i think all the of the leaks that are coming out of the police department, whether they're showing up in a local post, they introduce people's cynicism. the people we're talking to are extremely angry, very passionate, peaceful and they want this protest and movement to continue. and people keep saying this is just going to build. through there's not a lot of faith at this point in the process. and people don't necessarily believe that charges will be filed or if filed, that they will result in any sort of

successful prosecution of any of these officers. >> joy, stay with me. let's go back to eugene o'donnell. eugene, what do we need to hear from police tonight? what does the community need to hear? >> the greatest extent of disclosure they can, and i think it's really vital that we all agree that when somebody dies in police -- in a state's custody, that what american wouldn't be horrified not to be able to know what happened. we can all be together on that. and i think that's what they really need to try to impart. they're doing everything to the maximum extent that they can, but i would definitely caution, in all fairness here the inconsistencies that ultimately if you give one story and another story emerges, that is the lifeblood of criminal defense, if there is a prosecution. so you -- they're sort of damned if they do and damned if they don't, in that sense. if you give a lot of information and that turns out to be inconsistent, you're gifting the defense here. >> how do they deal with all of

these conflicting leaks, one station having law enforcement sources tell them one thing, another saying something opposite, and the actual witness that is quoted is saying that no, that is not what i'm saying at all. how do the police handle that in the brief? >> it's awfully crucial that they try to keep this information within a cadre, a small number of people if they can, because leaks are obviously undermining of confidence. and it's not about who they help or don't help but the community hears that and says, why is this selective information, leaked, and we're running gning different directions then and that undermines the trust that people will have. we already have a lot of different accounts here. and as long as they're not endorsing it publicly but they should be absolutely telling their people there should be a gag order on unofficial disclosure of information, especially once a grand jury enters the case too, there could be sanctions, criminal

sanctions for disclosing grand jury material. and they need to try to expedite that process as well. >> now, we heard mention about the law enforcement bill of rights and that police in maryland have ten days before they have to say anything. is that usual around the country, because many people including yours truly, have objected to that but is that a maryland thing or is that something they have around the country? >> they have a fifth amendment right to remain silent and would probably be advised to use that in this case just generally. but in new york, there was a 48-hour rule and that was eliminated. and theoretically, the officers have to speak. so -- but you do have a law enforcement bill of rights. can i just say, because i think when we're talking about consensus issues you know a lot of people rode this tough on crime stuff to high office. we had a mayor do that in new york city. we really created an issue where arrest is not a big deal. could we all be on the same page going forward, taking away

someone's freedom is a very big fundamental deal. you were around for this rev, in the '80s and '90s. there were people running nonstop on this what's the difference if you lock up a few people and they're innocent? we should put that now to rest. it is a fundamentally huge issue to take anybody's freedom in this country and if anybody says otherwise, should be corrected on that. and public policy is based on that has to be looked at. and i think, again, hopefully it's not more than a few dozen people who don't see that squarely as something we need to fix now. >> i agree with you wholeheartedly. everyone, stay with me. we'll take a break. we'll be right back. we're waiting on this police briefing.

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anticipating, and especially with this community, the rain has come and gone but the protesters have not left. they're still demanding answers and accountability. and while they won't be paying attention to what is said immediately in this news conference, that information is trickling down as they look to try to get more information about what happened here. there's sincere frustration and there is fear that because they were initially under the impression that this information would be released publicly that the report would be released publicly tomorrow, about what may, in fact happen tomorrow as people recognize that's not the case we spoke to pastors in this community, and others who have been going into the schools, the high schools, many of those students were involved in the confrontations that took place on monday to try to calm the situation, to diffuse that situation. the white house is telling us that it's played a role in this process as well. it's been reaching out to celebrities and to athletes, who have strong ties to this community, among them ray lewis and carmelo anthony, in hopes they will be a part of the process of diffusing the

situation. this protest here, we saw the nba star carmelo anthony was presence. but still, these folks wait to see what information they will hear. but there's frustrations they're not going to get the answers they want right away. >> and frustrations are then exacerbated by false looks or false attention given that this report tomorrow would be public and it was handed over today as not public. and then all these conflicting leaks that we're getting. all of this seems to exacerbate the situation rather than calm the situation. >> reporter: rev, i think you're exactly right. to give you a sense where our reporting stands right now, law enforcement sources late today tell our nbc station here in baltimore, wbal that freddie gray's catastrophic injuries, the injuries that ultimately cost him his life took place inside that police van, not during the videotaped arrest. that's one of the details that

people are hoping -- >> peter, let me stop you -- >> here we go. >> here we go with the police briefing. >> good evening, as everyone has come in we wanted to share some information and answer a few questions. my name is commissioner batts baltimore police department. and to my right, general plazay of the state troopers. as we have moved through this week, when we have large agencies like this we fall into a unified command. we put out mutual aid, law enforcement, and the national guard are used to doing this it's pretty normal for us. it's nothing that's out of the norm. what we go into is an incident command system. the way that it's structured right now, i am the incident commander, which means i have to

give the directions on where we go. we are working as a very close team. we just finished meeting with the governor and the mayor, with my two partners at both of my sides, we are the policy directors of this event. so the mayor, the governor the colonel, the general, and myself, we walk through plans day to day we come to an agreement and then we give it to the operators to put into effect as a whole. i would like to thank the general for her support, i would like to thank the colonel for his support. we've had a seamless operation, we've had a strong team we've used each other's expertise in what we're doing to move this program forward, and as you see, we've had two very good days of conduct that have taken place in our city. what i have to say for myself and the mayor and the governor, that we're extremely pleased and happy and applaud the cities and residents of the city of baltimore in their activities. they're coming of out and showing what baltimore is really

all about, helping each other, standing strong in the grip that the city is really made of i would like to applaud all of them, the pastors, the mothers, the men of 300 and on and on and on and i'll stop, because i'll miss someone but we're extremely pleased along those lines. what i would like to caution, we've had two days of quiet and the city has become stable and settled itself down we have residents and businesspeople saying, can we take the curfew away things are settled, can you kind of retract some of the curfew ordinance? i would say this although we've had two days of peace and quiet, we still have a weekend to make it through. i ask for your patience your understanding, as we move through. we have two very large marches that are going to take place throughout the weekend. and in very short notice, as i walked in, i was instructed and told that we have a lot more protests that are popping up by the minute. and even if we didn't we have other cities that have large

protests that their activities impact our city too. so, at this point, we're going to stay stable. we have built out plans for each day, the policy group went through what we're doing today. the policy group went through what we're doing on friday saturday, and through the weekend as a whole. again, i want to reinforce that the curfew will be on throughout the weekend. the curfew starts at 10:00. we will be enforcing a curfew throughout the weekend, until the governor and the mayor and my allied partners come together and make a decision on how long that will go and that will depend on activities throughout the weekend. and our operational plan is based in a couple different sections. we have a modular concept, which means we can shape and move with the activities that are taking place. it's team based, whether the state police our allied agencies, and i forgot to thank them, we have a lot of allied agencies here from other states from the state of maryland also, so we would like to thank them. that's team based. we tailor our response to the

events on the ground that's taken place, so we can adapt very quickly to address issues that are out there. and the issues will be -- the response to those issues in the districts will be led by the district commanders who usually patrol those issues, who know it best supported by the national guard and supported by the police and our allied agencies. we just wanted to get before you and to share with you that our focus is on security, a single focus is on security to the city of baltimore. standing tall as a unified force, under guidance of the mayor and the governor of the state, coming together, under the mutual aid and the incident command system. is there any questions that we can answer for you today? >> does this mean the guard will be here until further notice? >> right now, we're going to focus on getting through the weekend. general, is there anything you would like to follow up on that? >> yeah so as the commissioner said, so we are following the

incident command system. so what that does it provides a very structured way that we are to exit. and that is actually based on what is the need were the local community. and that will be determined by the leadership and when i say the leadership that's the leadership you see in front of us, that's the mayor and the governor. we will make the decision based on what the activities are, that are going on within the community. we will not just all at once pull out. it's usually gradual. because we also have to take care of making sure we're getting our folks back to where they need to be. it's just like any other operation, just like you would see typically for snowstorm or anything else, you know, we come in and we're working with you until we make sure that everything is settled and then we can actually go back to normal operations. and as i just want to remind you, that for the national guard, it's different than you know, what you would see if you're talking, you know if it was activity duty or something else. when we pull out, we go back to our armories we put our equipment up and then the folks

actually come back to their homes. so if they're living within the city, they're still coming back to the city. it's not like we're just living the communities in total. we're all here resident within maryland. so we're going back to our communities. >> commissioner can you respond to this leaked information about freddie gray possibly dying -- >> all right. so we're not bringing -- >> earlier today, we had a summit of civil rights leaders, national civil rights leaders, that we helped to convene and local pastors and local youth activists and others. i want to bring in the president of the naacp, who partnered with me on this. he was with us at the meeting of the national civil rights leaders. cornell william brooks and he

was with us today, at the summit. mr. brooks how do you respond to the summit today? the mayor came and spoke to us and others. >> well good evening, reverend sharpton. i think it was a very helpful and constructive gathering of faith leaders, community leaders, and the mayor. it was a collective statement of solidarity. that is to say that now, particularly in the midst of this moment of crisis now's not the time for finger pointing but rather an occasion for hand-holding the linking of arms in solidarity and in unity. because when you have a community that's grieving when you have a community that is in a desperate search for answers and justice, now is the precise moment where we all need to stand together. the governor the mayor, prosecutors, police officers neighborhood associations the whole length and breadth of

baltimore as a community. that's what i would say about the meeting. >> one of the things that struck me, i asked one of the youth gang members to address the crowd of leaders and he made a very striking point that they have not been heard, which is why i wanted him there. listen to what he said. >> listening to our struggle. and that's what needs to be done. y'all need to hear our struggle. it's not the struggle of 40 years ago. it's not the struggle of 50 years ago, 60 years ago. our struggle was totally different and the first thing someone says when we try to express our struggle is i understand. how can you understand me you haven't even heard me talk. >> isn't that what we're hearing a lot, is that a lot of the young people do not feel they

have been given a chance to talk. that many of them do not want to be destructive. in fact, they're trying to help keep the peace, but they feel unheard and unheeded mr. brooks. >> absolutely. not just here in baltimore, but across the country. we have a generation of young people who have grown up in the era of mass incarceration. they live with the reality that african-american -- >> let me ask you to hold one minute mr. brooks. i want to go back quickly to the police briefing, because something is coming up. let me go back. >> -- coming against them have the right to use equal force. >> it seems like a lot of is hinging on this weekend, if i'm correct, but if it goes smoothly, the past calm of days seem to de-escalate with the three peaceful protests that was yesterday that came down city hall. if you find that over the weekend, these are peaceful limited arrests, everything's fine are you at a place then to start scaling back as far as the

curfew is concerned? and it goes back to maybe pulling out of the national guard. i'm curious where your thought process is. >> part of the policy group, again, led by the mayor and the governor, and the colonel and the general and myself we meet on a daily basis and we have those discussions to evaluate if we need to continue. so although we're looking at this weekend, we -- every day, we go over our plans and the plans for the future dates. it's a day-to-day evaluation. >> stand by for one second. general, did you want to -- >> there's one thing i actually wanted to be able to bring up. and this gets back to the community support. there are two websites i want to point you to. the first is marylandunites.org. that's the first one. and the second is onebaltimore.org. and the reason why i bring those up, those sites have a lot of useful information out there. please go out and take a look at them so that you can get access to a lot of, i think, things that's very valuable for us for being able to get back to

normalcy. thank you. >> the only thing i would add quickly is that statewide law enforcement or law enforcement partners across the state, from garrett county to berlin maryland all of the big counties that have been here in support, we care about the citizens of baltimore, and the state police, we like to have a saying, a statewide approach with a local focus. you know, normally the state police is not in the city of baltimore on patrol but we are here in support of all the citizens in the state of maryland, and particularly the citizens of baltimore right now. and i'll close with what i did yesterday, and please please observe the curfew make it easier on all of us, we want this to end peacefully, and we've allowed all the peaceful protests to happen. we want that to happen. people have a right to express their opinion. we support that. but when the curfew hits. it is hard for a few -- we want to enforce it we have to enforce it. but when people go home like they did the past few nights we did not have that problem. >> thank you.

>> thank you everyone. >> let me go back to cornell brooks, president of the acp. we just heard the police say that the curfew will stay through the weekend. this earlier today, we discussed at the summit of national civil rights leaders. a couple hundred leaders of faith leaders in the city and youth and gang members. and i think mr. brooks that the key message we want is that nothing can be achieved unless there's nonviolence. >> absolutely. i think one of the thing that's encouraging is when you see young people and old people coming together around a commitment to non-violent protests. at the end of the day, let's bear this in mind. when you have buildings burning, stores being destroyed in these

already-sbof riched communities, we have to ask ourselves this question. six months from now, where will mothers find shoes for their children? where will seniors find precipitation drugs? the fact of the matter is we have to protect and preserve not the buildings, but the people who need the businesses. that's criminally important. and i like to believe, when we've seen so many citizens of baltimore clean streets that they did not litter, shore up buildings and businesses that they did not burn i like to believe that the overwhelming majority of citizens in this city are going to do their best to keep the peace. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> i thank you, again. and let me say, i want to thank all of my guests for helping to report this story tonight. it's very important, as we see people of all races marching through the streets of baltimore

and in other cities around the country, as we have seen a litany of cases around the country, this is a national crisis communities must deal must be held accountable, and must be transparent, and ultimately help each other solve this problem. and that is why today's summit was important, and more importantly, it is why we need to hear young people and we need to hear people, whether their conclusions are right or wrong, or whether we agree or not, they need to be heard. and factor it into how we solve this problem. we need to stop talking at each other and start talking to each other and build a system that has equal protection under the law and whoever violates the law, even if it's law enforcement, they must be held accountable. if they have not violated then

we must accept where evidence leads. that's what this family has said they want. that's what families around the country say. that's what we as a nation must do to become the perfect union that we all dream of. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton in baltimore. "hardball" starts right now. what killed freddie gray? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. what happened in that baltimore police van three sundays ago? what caused 25-year-old freddie gray to suffer a catastrophic injury, one which led to his death, while traveling to the police station? this is the question fuelling the protests the anger, the bursts of violence in this major american city. the police report,